A 109 días de la sustracción de Loan Danilo Peña en un paraje del a localidad de 9 de Julio en Corrientes, el nuevo abogado querellante, Juan Pablo Gallego, afirmó que la investigación sobre la desaparición de Loan fue obstaculizada y que aún hay personas no detenidas.También sugirió posibles vínculos con el narcotráfico y trata de personas en la provincia de Corrientes. Hablamos con Marcelo Hanson, el abogado de dos detenidos Ramírez y Millapi.
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00:00The strong testimony of the lawyer Juan Pablo Gallego, who referred to the cause
00:04that the judge Cristina Poser-Penso carries out,
00:07here in our studios, he said,
00:09I'm going to make a before and after because there are still people who were not arrested,
00:15the investigation has been hindered, it has been hindered,
00:19we knew it shamefully,
00:22of something that should have been or should have been an ultra-simple investigation,
00:27which is true, because in the context of what was the loss of a little boy,
00:32supposedly there in an orange grove,
00:34it ends up being today a fact on which there is a great hermeticism,
00:38on the part, let's suppose, of the detainees,
00:40and a lot of mystery, because surely they know more than they have said,
00:46but the bad news is that Lohan never appeared.
00:49Of course, what it seems that Dr. Gallego wants is to step on the accelerator,
00:52to put ink in the background and advance in what he says,
00:56what was so far a kind of speculation,
01:00to mislead, to generate hypotheses,
01:03fallacies that did not exist and that were not even in the file itself.
01:08Now what the doctor is talking about is punctually two people,
01:12a new suspect and another person who is going to be arrested in the short term.
01:18He points to one more person who has intervened in what was that June 13th,
01:24in the delivery of Lohan to those who have been his captors.
01:28He takes out the mother and the father, José and María take them out,
01:31the others are all suspicious and I say,
01:33that detainee can be someone from the family?
01:36There was always talk of a member of the family related to an important drug cartel
01:44that somehow is still weaving its ties in the area.
01:51That is not in the cause either.
01:53At least no one referred to the link of a member of the family of Lohan Dalino Peña
02:00related to drug trafficking.
02:03But on that side could go the investigative line that also,
02:07Dr. Gallego insists, is related to the deal for now
02:13and not an international network,
02:15but a network that is circumscribed to the province of Corrientes
02:19or at least to the provinces that are around.
02:22I consulted many of the lawyers, the representatives of the other detainees,
02:27of the seven initial detainees,
02:29the six who were at lunch in Algarrobal and Maciel,
02:37the commissioner who is also detained from the first instance.
02:40Then we have a connection clause with ten more detainees.
02:42But in that sense, it does not abound in the hypothesis of Dr. Gallego
02:46that there would be one more person who could be detained.
02:49Remember that he told us to underline the idea of pedophilia.
02:51Of course.
02:52Pedophilia.
02:53Do not go too far.
02:55Here it has to do with this sexual crime of which Lohan could have been a victim
03:02and from the nationalization of the case, well, everything became much darker.
03:07We are going to ask Dr. Marcelo Hanson,
03:09who is the lawyer of Daniel Fierrito Ramírez and María del Carmen Millapi.
03:13Dr. Hanson, how are you doing? Good morning. Thank you for attending us.
03:16Hello, good morning. How are you Guillermo? How are you?
03:19Well, what opinion does the appearance of Dr. Juan Pablo Gallego deserve?
03:23As it was once the case of Dr. Burlando, right?
03:27In that he came to Burlando and the case could be defined promptly.
03:32Burlando left at the request of the parents
03:34and they call Dr. Gallego, who became known in a previous and later in his work life also
03:41for the case of the priest Graci.
03:43And there is a lot of faith in him.
03:47Well, I met Dr. Gallego personally now in Goya.
03:52I know of his background, his achievements that he had in several causes that are known,
04:00like the one of Father Graci.
04:02He is also a person who writes a lot, so I have read some of his works.
04:06He has a curriculum and a very remarkable professional trajectory.
04:11Likewise, I have been able to make personal contact with him,
04:15together with my partner, with Dr. Monti,
04:18and he is a professional, the truth is that with all the letters,
04:24because he has a very simple walk in what is the profession.
04:29Do you agree that this is actually a local group that may be related to pedophilia
04:36and that there should be at least one more detainee soon?
04:41I did not hear Dr. Gallego if he founded that, yes, what the news publishes,
04:47but for some time now I do not want to comment on the journalistic publications
04:51because I have found that they do not fit many times to the reality of the case.
04:56He told us here, doctor, that he was going to go for that.
04:59He said it here, sitting down, that he was going to go for that.
05:01I heard about pedophilia, yes, it is his theory, but not that of the detainee.
05:07In the cause there are no indications that there may be a person detained soon.
05:14Yes, there are requests regarding many people who have to declare,
05:18some were resolved, others not.
05:21An example of this is that Mr. Vera is already scheduled for this Wednesday,
05:26not the time, but the day that he is going to make a statement.
05:29Vera from Alameda, let's say.
05:31Yes, yes.
05:33Regarding the detainees, I really do not know.
05:37Surely Dr. Gallego handles other information.
05:40Dr. Hanson, you have been in the cause since day one.
05:46Could it be that Dr. Gallego, who has just been incorporated,
05:48can handle other information that you may have?
05:51Well, they have made some presentation that is still not in the cause,
05:57that is, we have no knowledge of the rest of the parties,
06:00and are raising suspicions about someone who is not yet detained.
06:06And from the intimate circle of the family, could it be?
06:09Yes, our position has always been that all the people who were at lunch
06:14knew something.
06:16There are even some who have lied, clearly,
06:19or have omitted to say things they knew.
06:22However, they have said it in the media,
06:24and well, we are waiting for them to be summoned to declare.
06:26It was always talked about Mariano, right?
06:28Loan's brother, as if he could have had some kind of connection
06:31with some sector of drug trafficking,
06:34that which is not yet in the cause.
06:36It was also discussed, or it was speculated many times.
06:38Can that hypothesis have some credibility?
06:44Well, let's see, that's why those who speak of those hypotheses outside the file,
06:50it is important that they declare the file
06:53and that they provide the elements they have to support that hypothesis.
06:57That drug trafficking is on July 9th,
07:01that drug trafficking is on July 9th,
07:03is clear to everyone, that has been proven.
07:06Now, if there is direct link
07:09with respect to this case,
07:12at the moment it is not clear and must be determined.
07:16Of course.
07:17Let's see, what Dr. Gallego has to understand
07:19is that here there are perverse issues,
07:21to satisfy perverse issues,
07:23Loan ends up being the little one disappeared,
07:27but it was also said in opportunities that it could have been another boy or another girl.
07:33Do you still believe in that, doctor?
07:36The characteristics of how the facts were given
07:41could indicate that yes, why?
07:43Because the presence of Loan was not confirmed that day.
07:46Exactly.
07:47However, later, once he went to investigate,
07:52we see that from early on it was known that he was there.
07:56By the photo, by the messages,
07:58even the same family received photos early.
08:03That is, the family that was in the town, right?
08:05Or there are places, for example, of some that we do not know where they were
08:09and it is not clear where they were.
08:11Okay, but if there is a general agreement between all parties,
08:14all lawyers,
08:15is that Loan was not the primary objective
08:19until someone finds out that he is going to go to that place.
08:24No, I do not agree with that.
08:26Let's see why.
08:28Because if it was planned and there is an intrafamilial connection,
08:32let's remember that the grandmother and the father have also said,
08:37or at least the grandmother,
08:39let us understand that she always knew when the father was going
08:43because someone told her.
08:47So you ...
08:48So it is not that it was not known.
08:51And apart, let's remember that the trip to the field,
08:56it is not clear who decided to take Loan to the field that day.
09:02Well, as we know ...
09:03There are contradictions between the parents themselves.
09:05The father goes on horseback with him.
09:08That's what you say,
09:09but if you read the cause, the statements of mother and father,
09:12there are contradictions.
09:13Let's see which ones.
09:15That one says ...
09:16The mother says she asked him,
09:18because she always wanted to go.
09:19The father says that the mother did not ask him,
09:23that it was the boy who asked.
09:25And in another statement it says that he invited him.
09:28But there may be some ...
09:29And what would change?
09:31What is substantial there?
09:34We do not know who he could have commented to.
09:36Just as there are these forget-me-nots and contradictions out there,
09:39he unintentionally commented to someone.
09:41Someone saw him when he went shopping.
09:43He told him he was going to the field.
09:45In other words, there are many issues that must be analyzed in detail.
09:49If they could have found out that Loan was on his way to the field.
09:52Let's see, sorry, doctor.
09:53Now I understand.
09:54A third person who finds out that,
09:57hey, look, the son of José and María is going to the house of Grandma Catalina.
10:01We would already be talking about something very ...
10:03Of course.
10:04Already very searched.
10:05Well, but that's the way Dr. Hanson is going, right?
10:08Of course.
10:09No, but doctor, with this line,
10:11the parents, or at least one, would be involved.
10:16No, I don't know.
10:17That's why I say it's a matter of analyzing without defining anything.
10:22Why?
10:23Because we can, as I said,
10:27interpret that they gave the information without knowing that they were giving the information.
10:31And maybe the son was the target.
10:33And they were waiting for the moment.
10:35To whom?
10:36Because I don't understand how a group like this
10:40could improvise in such a way in two hours.
10:44There, going back to what Dr. Gallego said.
10:46They say they were distracted in dozens of hypotheses.
10:49While they gained time, it was covered up and clouded.
10:53I think we all agree on this, Dr. Hanson.
10:56It was obstructed, it was covered up.
10:59There was an attempt, in some way, in the first days too,
11:04to overshadow the cause.
11:06Does it coincide with that?
11:10Yes, obviously.
11:11All the actions that are being investigated,
11:14which are part of connected investigations,
11:18some of which have now joined the main one,
11:21have undoubtedly obstructed the cause.
11:25In the same file there are people who covered up
11:29and who are under investigation,
11:31in what way and why they did it.
11:33Obviously that, in some way,
11:38has to have a justification.
11:40Otherwise, it is not understood why to obstruct a cause.
11:43No, for sure.
11:44What happens, doctor,
11:45is that before the arrival of Juan Pablo Gallego
11:47with such forceful statements
11:49in that this is not an international network of treatment,
11:52but a local network.
11:54Does this change the paradigm of the Loan case?
11:59When he says,
12:00let's not look in Brazil,
12:01this has to do with something,
12:02and I ask him,
12:03were there any records of other children
12:06who disappeared
12:08or of whom there were attempts to kidnap?
12:11Was this known?
12:12Do you know of a local network
12:14that was investigated before the Loan case?
12:17No, no.
12:18That is not the case.
12:21Yes, there are cases of missing children,
12:25but from many years ago.
12:27Recently there are no cases
12:29of missing children.
12:31At least there are no formal complaints.
12:34And I calculate that with all the press
12:36that there was about the Loan case,
12:38testimonies should have appeared.
12:40Of course.
12:41Yes.
12:43I don't think so.
12:44I don't think it exists.
12:46Yes, there can be, obviously,
12:48a network that is dedicated
12:50to the Loan case.
12:52Now,
12:53how do the victims,
12:55so to speak,
12:57have what is not yet seen
13:00in this case?
13:02Because we are talking about the Loan case
13:04and it always allows us
13:06to say that it is international.
13:08But yes, there can be exploitation
13:10of different types
13:12at the internal level.
13:13And maybe the children
13:15have another destination.
13:16Not necessarily
13:17taking them abroad.
13:19Of course, of course.
13:20Let's say that in the face of a trial,
13:22we are worse than at the beginning, right?
13:25There is nothing,
13:27because there is nothing that proves
13:29the responsibility of anyone
13:31in the disappearance itself
13:33of the Loan.
13:34Yes, in the coverage,
13:35and everything else.
13:36But for a trial today,
13:37there are no tools to qualify
13:40the sentences of any of the defendants.
13:43Or is that so, doctor?
13:46Look, Germán,
13:48there are some pending trials.
13:50Some already done
13:52commit a lot
13:54on behalf of the defendants.
13:56And others
13:58are going to be unlinked, I think,
14:00even before
14:02a trial.
14:04Or in the same trial
14:06there will be people who will receive
14:08a lack of merit.
14:10And eventually,
14:12eventually,
14:14in court,
14:16there will be a lot of detainees.
14:18Of course.
14:19But what you defend, doctor?
14:21What you represent?
14:23Let's understand that no, Guillermo.
14:25Let's understand that no,
14:26that it was corroborated.
14:28What happens is that also
14:30the process slows down
14:33too much.
14:34Why?
14:35Because now, for example,
14:37there is a new request
14:39from a judge
14:41on behalf of the prosecution.
14:43And it is being analyzed,
14:45because in reality
14:47there is an excuse there
14:49to repeat the Hessel Chamber
14:51that one of the Hessel Chamber
14:53had not been finalized
14:55but suspended due to the fatigue
14:57of the minor who was declared.
14:59But doctor, at this point,
15:01I say, a lot of time has passed.
15:03Without a doubt, they are going to put
15:05the minor's advisor,
15:07because it is to re-victimize
15:09those minors who have suffered.
15:11Doctor, not only to re-victimize them,
15:13after more than three months,
15:15what is remembered,
15:17one thing is to remember the 10 days,
15:19the 20 days, the detail, of course.
15:21Also today, the boys,
15:23I don't know if they can be coached,
15:25but from everything they heard,
15:27maybe they can discern
15:29what they saw and what they say
15:31they have lived from everything
15:33they heard from the older ones,
15:35from what they saw on television.
15:37Does it make sense or would it make sense
15:39a new Hessel Chamber
15:41For us, no.
15:43For us, from the position
15:45of this defense, it does not make sense
15:47and we always say the same thing,
15:49it is not that it harms
15:51or not our defendants,
15:53but the psychological
15:55harm
15:57that we are doing to those children,
15:59constantly subjecting them
16:01to an activity such as
16:03declaring against
16:05courts and in those conditions,
16:07in itself,
16:09deserves to be carefully
16:11analyzed and
16:13any intervention
16:15on the minors is discarded.
16:17I think they should
16:19deepen the protection of the minors
16:21and not
16:23try to see if they say
16:25one or two more words.
16:27I think the minors have already
16:29said what they knew,
16:31it is enough for the investigation,
16:33I don't think they can contribute anything more
16:35and delay or
16:37take him back to the Hessel Chamber,
16:39he would be an idiot.
16:41Do you have any expectations
16:43of what Vera de la Alameda will declare?
16:45It was very forceful and
16:47it was worth a complaint
16:49by the governor.
16:51Do you think he will contribute
16:53to the cause
16:55if he reaffirms
16:57all his theory
16:59in front of the judge?
17:01Well,
17:03let's see what he says,
17:05he would apparently contribute
17:07all the elements
17:09that support his theory
17:11of drug trafficking
17:13and its link
17:15with this cause.
17:17It could be a political earthquake,
17:19what he can contribute,
17:21if everything he said is concrete,
17:23he contributes it with evidence,
17:25we can even speculate.
17:27I have seen
17:29that many times
17:31what they say to the media
17:33and to the court.
17:35He would speak badly of Gustavo Hegel,
17:37if he says anything
17:39after having done it
17:41even on this screen,
17:43I understand that he is a person
17:45who has enough evidence
17:47and will contribute it,
17:49what expectations do you have
17:51that he will be participating
17:53in this inquiry?
17:55Well, if he had evidence,
17:57he would have contributed it,
17:59I would not expect him
18:01to say anything,
18:03but he should have contributed the evidence,
18:05there is enough time,
18:07I think, since he made the demonstrations
18:09and the complaints,
18:11I would not have expected
18:13to present a written statement
18:15and immediately ask to declare.
18:17Dr. Hanson,
18:19I ask the father of the family,
18:21the one who comes home,
18:23not the one who defends Ramírez and Millapi,
18:25do you think we will know
18:27what happened with LOAM?
18:29Of course, Guillermo,
18:31but believe me,
18:33although I am defending two defendants,
18:35we work to clarify
18:37and we have made ourselves available
18:39to the new lawyer,
18:41as we have always done,
18:43to collaborate in everything
18:45that can be done
18:47and provide the elements
18:49that our defendants know,
18:51because they have never refused
18:53to declare,
18:55there is even a possibility
18:57of their position
18:59or improve their position,
19:01but to contribute some elements
19:03that can serve for the investigation.
19:05Well, Dr. Hanson,
19:07thank you very much for this testimony.
19:09No, please, thank you.
19:11Have a good morning.