The Jeremy Kyle Show (11 April 2018)
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00:00on today's show
00:02I can't call him a she, I can't call him Imogen, I've got to say straight from the outset. I've got friends who are transgender
00:08Yes, if he's gonna do it, do it properly because
00:11His community is disrespecting that community
00:19Why get yourself in that predicament in the first place?
00:21You got passed on to me, this is what I'm saying, this is what I'm saying
00:23Well stay away from idiots, Jordan!
00:25That's what I'm trying to do
00:27I've told you, don't!
00:30I wish I did now
00:32It's me that's going to bail you out every time
00:34I can't thank you enough for it, Mark
00:36You don't though, do you, because you steal off my kids
00:38Messages are there
00:40Why have I planted it in red?
00:42Hold on, I ain't said you've planted it in red
00:44Don't shout at me, I'm telling you now
00:46I ain't said nothing
00:48Calm it down
00:50Don't disrespect me
00:52You already disrespected Jeremy last time
00:54Don't disrespect me
00:59Thank you
01:17Hello my friends, good morning and a big, big welcome to the show
01:19Now you might remember my first guest from a previous encounter
01:21Take a long, close look at this, my friends
01:23Why are you stopping him seeing the kids?
01:25Because he's just useless
01:27I'm not allowed to see the kids because my house smells of dog
01:29Yeah
01:31I've got two dogs
01:33I've even got three cats
01:35With a litter tray in the kitchen
01:37With cats climbing all over them
01:39With two little babies
01:41Anyway, there's another twist to this story
01:43Sorry about this, Charlie
01:45You say that one of the reasons that you split up was
01:47He has a bit of a sordid secret
01:49Yep
01:51Which is?
01:53He likes wearing women's underwear
01:55Women's clothes
01:57And he gets me to buy it, lying to other people
01:59And saying that he didn't know about it
02:01But then he happily wears it
02:03He has every right to see his kids darling
02:05And you have no right as you're proving by walking away
02:07You do one and I'm not following you
02:09I'm going to put the full weight of this show behind him
02:11So he can see his kids
02:13Because he's as much right as you
02:15Now do one
02:18Now Penny's mum Jo is on this show today
02:21She believes that everybody wrongly bought into Charlie's daddy of the year act
02:25She says, I mean to put the record straight
02:27She says that Charlie is a useless father
02:29And she is furious
02:31He's encouraging her grandchildren to call him mummy
02:33Because he now wants to become a woman
02:35Jo believes, Jo says
02:37This is for attention seeking
02:39He's an embarrassment
02:41And she ain't going to let it happen to her grandchildren
02:43Strong views
02:45She's the grandmother, she's entitled to them
02:47Jo's on the Jeremy Kyle show
02:49Give her a round of applause
02:55They are strong views
02:57And it's one of those
02:59I'm delighted to do this story
03:01But I have to say at the outset
03:03I have to be straight down the middle on this
03:05You saw me last time
03:07This guy apparently liked a degree of cross dressing
03:09Your daughter wasn't happy
03:11Off she did
03:13It's about the children
03:15It's about the impact that whatever
03:17Problems in a relationship have
03:19On the kids
03:21Tell us your story, tell us your side of this Jo
03:23It's majorly impacting on him
03:25Since he was on the show last time
03:27I can't call him a she, I can't call him Imogen
03:29I've got to say straight from the outset
03:31Is Imogen now presenting as a full time woman?
03:33No
03:35No
03:37He's still going around dressing as a man
03:39But using the name Imogen
03:41He's still a man
03:43But he's still for all intents and purposes
03:45A man outwardly
03:47What you're going to see today from what I've heard
03:49Isn't what he normally dresses like
03:51He's took my daughter's surname
03:53Which is different to the children
03:55The children have got his surname
03:57But he's taken my daughter's surname
03:59Why?
04:01We all seem to think he thinks he's in with a chance
04:03Of getting back with my daughter
04:05Which there's not a hope in bloody hell
04:07But he's now a woman
04:09It's messed up in the head
04:11The kids?
04:13Maybe, maybe not
04:15Let's talk about the children and the impact on them
04:17They don't know if they're coming or going
04:19They were calling him Daddy
04:21Then before this transition
04:23Came about
04:25He wanted them to call him Mummy
04:29They started calling him Mummy
04:31Which I wasn't comfortable with
04:33But that's what they wanted, that's fine
04:35Then it went back to Charles or Charlie
04:37Not Daddy, but Charles or Charlie
04:39And now they've got Imogen
04:41They're only three and five for goodness sake
04:43There can't be any ambiguity
04:45Because that would confuse the children
04:47But you go further
04:49You say forget that a minute
04:51He stopped paying my daughter child maintenance
04:53He buys tattoos
04:55He buys TVs
04:57And whenever I've seen the kids back from him
04:59They're not clean, they're not looked after
05:01They're full of head lice
05:03And the problem is, what will happen is
05:05This part, it could descend just into
05:07About gender transition
05:09There's no argument about that
05:11The only issue on that is
05:13The best way for that to be for everybody
05:15Including the kids
05:17But you say, this is a sham, he's a bad dad
05:19Imogen says
05:21That we shall
05:23And that's quite her right
05:25Say that she's a female
05:27She's going through transition
05:29And that's how we should address her
05:31And that you are being disrespectful
05:33Um
05:35To some degree
05:37But I've not been introduced to Charlie as Imogen
05:39For a start
05:41I've got friends that are transgender
05:43You've never seen
05:45Imogen dressed as a woman
05:47Not properly
05:49Rocky Horror Picture Show
05:51Sorry?
05:53You know what I'm going to tell you, don't you?
05:55Imogen's come dressed as Imogen today
05:57Yeah, I've been told
05:59I can't wait
06:01I've seen him in underwear
06:03I used to sell him his underwear
06:05I was an Ann Summers rep
06:07Sorry
06:09You're an Ann Summers rep
06:11Who used to sell your ex-son-in-law
06:13Who's going through transition to a woman
06:15At the time he was just a cross-dresser
06:17You don't have an issue with the transition
06:19You've just made the point, we have to make it public
06:21It's not about transgender
06:23The only issue with it is
06:25Because I've got friends who are transgender
06:27If he's going to do it, do it properly
06:29There's a lot of disrespect in that community
06:31So what you're saying is
06:33We are very supportive of the transition
06:35The gender transition that Imogen is going through
06:37But
06:39There are two problems that you've got
06:41One is we're not sure you're taking it seriously
06:43And are going to see it through
06:45And that would disrespect yourself, the community, whatever
06:47It's either going to be a second mum or he's going to be dad
06:49What's it going to be?
06:51Because them two little girls haven't got a clue
06:53They don't know whether they've got two mums, a mum and dad
06:55And I think this is really why we wanted to do this
06:57Because it's very easy, and I hope the audience agree
06:59If you say anything
07:01We live in such a politically correct society
07:03And I think you are absolutely spot on
07:05Everybody should be able to live the way they want to live their lives
07:07Under the confines of the law
07:09And there are many people who are born into the wrong body
07:11And it must be an absolute nightmare
07:13And fair play
07:15And we should stand up and salute those people
07:17We really, really should
07:19But, at the same time
07:21If our future is all about kids
07:23What is the impact?
07:25And at the end of the day
07:27What's right for them?
07:29And whatever your gender
07:31Doesn't make you a good parent, does it?
07:33You're saying, I don't care if it's Charlie or Imogen
07:35I'm concerned about my grandchildren
07:37Not because of what you're wearing
07:39Because of the way you are to them
07:41Look after them, treat them as children, not as pawns
07:43What are you saying?
07:45That until Imogen's gone through this process
07:47She shouldn't be involved with the children?
07:49I don't know, to be honest
07:51Because there's your issue
07:53I don't think she should be kept away from him
07:55Until he's gone past that stage
07:57And it's clear that he's a woman
07:59You genuinely are saying
08:01You think this is what, not a phase
08:03I don't think he's got the guts to go through with Jeremy
08:05Imogen disagrees
08:07This is your daughter's ex-partner
08:09She says you've always hated her
08:11You and Penny are as bad as each other
08:13And that both of you are clearly transphobic
08:15No, not at all
08:17I don't personally agree with that
08:19But we'll see
08:21APPLAUSE
08:29Who do you think you are?
08:31Oh, my days
08:33I'm a normal person, darling, far from you
08:35So I'm quite normal
08:37Oh, my God, what do you lot think?
08:39Is it funny or what?
08:41No, you're funny
08:43No, Charlie, I want what's best for these kids
08:45Who's laughing at the back?
08:47You're just not
08:49You're not normal
08:55You run the risk, as does your daughter
08:57In laughing, right?
08:59Of losing any moral high ground
09:01Here's the thing, right?
09:03I tried to make the point
09:05I get the kids thing
09:07I get the ambiguity
09:09But if we live in the society
09:11We all should live in
09:13Imogen has the right to be Imogen
09:15Irrespective
09:17You can't label it
09:19With the greatest respect
09:21And you have a right to an opinion
09:23So does Imogen, so do I
09:25My opinion is
09:27Don't be disrespectful and laugh
09:29Because that doesn't put you in any way
09:31What's making me laugh
09:33Is the fact that it's done that just for this today
09:35And you will go back to it later today
09:37You're not normal
09:39You can say, I think you're an attention seeker
09:41You're not normal
09:43Because what the hell is normal, darling, in the world anymore?
09:45I'll take that one
09:49You know, irrespective of this
09:51You need to put your children first
09:53You seriously need to put your children first
09:55You don't pay anything for your children
09:57You're all over Facebook with TVs and tattoos
09:59Why aren't you giving the money that you're paying for your tattoos to your children?
10:01I do pay for my kids
10:03You haven't paid me a penny since September, child
10:05I'll call you Imogen, you dress as a woman
10:07You're smiling that it's October
10:09I don't care whether you're a man or a woman or anything
10:11Why have you not given any money to your kids for six months
10:13Why?
10:15Because I had shared custody in place with Penny
10:17We were working a week on week off
10:19Why didn't you give any money to your kids?
10:21Why didn't she give me money?
10:23When was the last time you saw your children?
10:2522nd January
10:27So you think shared custody means that she should give you money
10:29And you should give her money
10:31No, we split it between us
10:33I got her a job with me, doing care
10:35I had a week on week off for my kids
10:37I don't know
10:39There's an argument that says that that's fair
10:41Why have you not seen your kids since the end of January?
10:43Because of her
10:45She lifted them out of school when it was my day to have them
10:47Do you love your kids?
10:49That's not even a question mate
10:51I adore my kids
10:53Do you feel
10:55Everything that you've gone through, everything that you're doing
10:57It's a difficult question to ask but I want to ask it
10:59Do you feel
11:01I'm sure it's confusing for you and life changing and difficult
11:03What do you think it's doing to your kids?
11:05I'm not saying there's a reason not
11:07But there's an issue about ambiguity in this story
11:09My kids are absolutely fine
11:11I've explained it to them
11:13Have you?
11:15Yeah, they still call me dad and if they're not comfortable they can call me Imogen
11:17This whole mum lark
11:19I've heard it Charlie
11:21Imogen, I've heard it
11:23From your daughter, you've not seen me
11:25I was at the flat when you were living with Penny
11:27And I heard the children call you mummy
11:29Yeah, because of her
11:31And mother, they don't call me that now
11:33Two years have passed
11:35How difficult for you was it to go through with this?
11:37Extremely hard
11:39Yeah, I'd go and get blood tests
11:41Are you going through the transition now?
11:43Are you in the process?
11:45Yeah, it's coming up to a year now
11:47For my official referral
11:49To their mental specialist in London
11:51Where do you stand on the argument that says
11:53That children in these instances
11:55Would end up getting confused
11:57Getting messed up, hear me out
11:59And that some people would argue
12:01That until that transitional period is over
12:03Some people, not me
12:05Before the do-gooders start writing
12:07Would think that
12:09Anybody going through this
12:11Life changing and monumental
12:13Difference in their life
12:15Should not confuse children by being in their children's lives
12:17I know what you're going to say
12:19And I probably support it massively
12:21I have every right to be in my kids lives
12:23Yeah, absolutely
12:25Mate, I've long advocated both points
12:27What I'm saying is
12:29Where do you stand on
12:31The impact that could have on an Imogen
12:33Right, an answer to your question
12:35Is I'm their dad
12:37Regardless of gender
12:39Yeah
12:45I'm on both their birth certificates
12:47It's my parental right to do right by my kids
12:49But let's move on
12:51From the gender thing
12:53Because this is the point
12:55I'm going to go to a break
12:57I want to get your daughter out
12:59Because here's the thing
13:01We're going to go to a break
13:03We're going to get Penny, the mother of the children
13:05I personally think, and I'm no disrespect to you
13:07I think Imogen has come out here and spoken very candidly
13:09And very honestly in the last ten minutes
13:11And I mean that
13:13But I'm interested to hear from Penny the mother
13:15Because you've sort of been her voice piece
13:17Which we understand
13:19Last time I could argue that your daughter didn't care about putting this right
13:21Because she ran out of the studio
13:23She's next on the Jeremy Carr show
13:25Don't go anywhere
13:27Right, so about the kids
13:29The people I know take it seriously
13:31Go for hormones properly
13:33Instead of buying them off the internet
13:39Have you been betrayed by someone close to you?
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13:43And you need to clear your name
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14:13Welcome back before the break
14:15Speaking of Joe and Imogen
14:17Your daughter, your ex
14:19Were you married to Penny?
14:21Girlfriend
14:23You're going through a transition from Charlie to Imogen
14:25You're a bad dad
14:27Not many examples about some cough medicine
14:29But money
14:31Not cough medicine
14:33High fever
14:35It's an issue
14:37I don't want to be labelled as having an opinion on this one
14:39Two parents
14:41Two kids
14:43Why if one parent has them
14:45This will be taken by somebody the wrong way
14:47If one parent has them for six months
14:49And the other one has them for six months
14:51If they're both working
14:53Why should both parents not actually pay for that child
14:55Now if one's working
14:57And one isn't
14:59It's a different kettle of fish
15:01But you're saying responsibility both sides
15:03Let's get her out
15:05Penny's on the Jeremy Cowell show
15:07That way
15:09That is not how you use your dress
15:11That is all for show
15:13That is just all for show
15:15The wig, I've seen where that was
15:17That isn't yours
15:19That is just what you borrowed
15:21Are you talking about the kids
15:23Yes
15:25So what gives you the right to stop me having my kids
15:27They're confused by what you're doing
15:29You haven't explained to them thoroughly in front of me
15:31Because of what you're telling them
15:33I haven't told them nothing
15:35She's been given
15:37Because you said she has her own mind
15:39How old is your daughter
15:41She's five, nearly six
15:43Next month
15:45What a terribly difficult age to have to deal with all of this
15:47She chooses not to go there
15:49I basically give her a choice
15:51I know she's young but she chooses
15:53And she's impressionable
15:55You two plant seeds in her head
15:57You yourself said she's got her own mind
15:59She's got the mental capacity
16:01But she's still vulnerable
16:03So you can't say it in one hand
16:05Because you two don't like me
16:07It's not about you when I'm with the kids
16:09It's about me
16:11Are you saying, let's cut to the chase
16:13I can't get involved in this
16:15You don't want Imogen being involved in your children's life
16:17They should be involved but to a point where they understand
16:19So how's this going to happen
16:21Because this is a fact, there are plenty of people transitioning
16:23There are plenty of transgender parents across the UK
16:25There's 147 in Norfolk alone
16:27Good for you
16:29Brilliant
16:31How are we going to make this work
16:33If you're talking, which I'm glad you are
16:35About what's right about the children
16:37Rather than sitting out there laughing
16:39Because that disrespects yourself
16:41What's the answer
16:43This isn't the answer
16:45Everybody working out what's right
16:47How are those children going to get an understanding
16:49So that their parent
16:51Right
16:53Can be involved in their lives
16:55They need to properly understand it
16:57I suspect that both parents
16:59Irrespective of their gender
17:01Need to sit down as one
17:03Knowing that they have no future as a couple
17:05But they love their children
17:07And those parents need to jointly explain to those children
17:09How it's going to be
17:11And then the kids
17:13On both fronts will be able to move forward
17:15Isn't that the thing
17:17That's what we need to do
17:19Surely
17:21That is
17:23But you have no right to stop me
17:25Do you find what Imogen
17:27Which I consider very brave
17:29But I do also absolutely acknowledge
17:31That there are difficulties
17:33And I think you Imogen have to understand that
17:35You're lauded quite rightly as very brave
17:37And you're going through transition
17:39And you're being who you are
17:41But there are consequences from one's actions
17:43And this is impacting on not only children
17:45It doesn't sit very well with you
17:47Because I suspect a part of you
17:49Thinks my god
17:51I was in this heterosexual relationship
17:53I had two kids
17:55And now my ex-boyfriend's dressed as a woman
17:57Does that impact on you as a woman
17:59No not really
18:01I don't think about it too much
18:03So that's now part of my past
18:05But then part of how it is because of the kids
18:07But Imogen is not a threat to your children
18:09We can both parent
18:11That's what I think we need to get to
18:13Who's your friend Phil
18:15Phil's on the Jeremy Carr show
18:25What gives you the right to laugh at Imogen
18:27The people I know take it seriously
18:29Go for hormones properly
18:31Instead of buying them off the internet
18:33You buy your hormones off the internet
18:35Because there's a year to 18 month waiting list
18:37Tell me that this transition is being done properly
18:39It is
18:41Psychologically and physically
18:43What do you make of Imogen
18:45I think Imogen's a great parent
18:47And quite frankly
18:49The fact that Penny's stopped seeing the kids
18:51Is disgusting
18:53Because she's basically put a post-ag on them
18:55Let's cut to the chase
18:57Up until January the 22nd
18:59Imogen, please don't take this the wrong way
19:01I'm not bothered
19:03You had no qualms
19:05In the last month
19:07Because all you've really said
19:09Is that you're uncomfortable
19:11Because your kid is uncomfortable
19:13And I'm not deriding you darling at all
19:15Because that happens
19:17And anybody, you've got to understand that
19:19You might say everything's fine, the kid could go home
19:21Because let's not forget, I've got four of them
19:23They are the most manipulative, divisive little things in the world
19:25They tell one party one thing and one the other
19:27And when kids suss out their parents aren't together
19:29Let me tell you, they play the game of life
19:31We all know that
19:33We get the same
19:35Can we come and live with you now?
19:37But do you acknowledge that if they're saying it to their mother
19:39They could be saying it to Imogen as well
19:41I've got three daughters myself
19:43So that's why I'm saying
19:45If Imogen, and there's no proof that Imogen
19:47Would be a danger to the kids or anything
19:49Why can't you guys work together
19:51If you've accepted this transitional period
19:53In terms of gender
19:55Why can't you just work out for these kids
19:57Because here's the thing
19:59Carry on like this
20:01And they will be messed up
20:03And it will become
20:05I wanted to make this point when we were talking about this part this morning
20:07This will become
20:09Confusion over their
20:11Imogen's, sorry
20:13Their dad's sexuality
20:15It will go beyond that
20:17There's more to it, it's simple
20:19Put your heads together and get it sorted for the kids
20:21That's why
20:27I'll tell you something that I know
20:29I don't know everything
20:31I'm not going to say I know everything about it all
20:33Imogen was going through Penny's post
20:35Asking about letters that were left on the side
20:37From HMRC, what's that letter about
20:39Getting a key cut to her flat
20:41Without asking
20:43I'm not being disrespectful Jo
20:45Listen, I'm not being disrespectful because as a grandmother
20:47I get it, as a mother I get it
20:49I think that this has become all about sexuality
20:51Up gender
20:53For me, nobody should say that you're not a good parent
20:55And nobody should say you're not a good parent
20:57You're mixed in work
20:59You are both parents
21:01How are those two parents going to make it work
21:03So that those two kids
21:05Aren't messed up and have a dim view
21:07Of how they were brought up
21:09That's all I'm saying, you want that don't you
21:11I've got three granddaughters
21:13And I want all three of them to be happy
21:15I want them all to be brought up
21:17As level headed, normal children
21:19As normal as they can be
21:21The world's a different place though
21:23My mother was 84 before she died
21:25People hid
21:27Hid who they were
21:29People hid Jo what they wanted to be for years
21:31Because society frowned
21:33Have you ever not done something you wanted to do for fear of reprisal
21:35Come on
21:37In the past yeah, but now I don't
21:39The world's different and fair play to Urgent
21:41She can stand up and say I am who I am
21:43But
21:45But
21:47We live in a politically correct society
21:49And all the people that clapped are right
21:51But I also think we need to make the point
21:53There are things that happen after that
21:55That need to be dealt with
21:57Which is being children in this instant
21:59That's what it's about
22:01It's their safety that worries me
22:03Like I said about the key being cut
22:05Okay
22:07What's to say
22:09Hang on let me finish what I'm saying
22:11I'll give you the respect to talk as well
22:13Let me speak for a minute please
22:15She had a key cut without asking Penny
22:17If she'd asked and Penny said yes
22:19Fair enough
22:21What's to say
22:23Penny's not going to come home one day
22:25That flat's going to be emptied
22:27All them children's things are going to be gone
22:29What's to say Penny's going to go to bed at night
22:31She takes the key out the door so the children can't let themselves out
22:33The little toddlers they're going to do things like that
22:35What's to say Imogen or somebody else
22:37Isn't going to come in with that key and those kids are going to be gone
22:39I'm going to be really honest with you
22:41I'm going to be really honest with you
22:43I might be twisted thinking that
22:45But their safety
22:47Of course
22:49And you're implying because Imogen's no longer Charlie
22:51And decides to dress as a woman
22:53But suddenly as a parent
22:55Imogen doesn't also care about the safety of her kids
22:57I think it's a completely ridiculous argument
22:59I've been telling you for a long time
23:01No
23:03I'm going to do it one more time
23:05Joe
23:07I'm going to do it one more time
23:09Then I'm going to get these two to sit together and go
23:11Hear me out
23:13I understand all the different opinions
23:15It comes down to being parents
23:17No there isn't
23:19Aren't me
23:21Not your mum, me
23:23Imogen slash Charlie is a good parent
23:25Yeah when it can be
23:27Always a good parent
23:29Or is it just convenient now
23:31To say
23:33Since three weeks ago
23:3550-50
23:37Now because of some cough medicine
23:39Or a key
23:41I get what you're saying
23:43But the risk that you run
23:45I'm so lacking
23:47In any fact
23:49That everybody watching is going to come to one assumption
23:51Which is
23:53Because this person has decided to transition
23:55That's why you're holding the kids against
23:57It's been little bits here and there
23:59And it's finally come to an end
24:01Are those little bits that can be got over
24:03With our team
24:05So that the two kids
24:07And then I'm finishing can benefit
24:09Yes or no
24:11Do you accept, both of you
24:13Yes
24:15Will you sit, the two of you
24:17With our team and talk about consistency
24:19And balance and reliability
24:21No ambiguity about
24:23Don't take this the wrong way but I have to do this
24:25As I only know how to
24:27You have every right in the world to dress as a woman
24:29But if you're going to do it, see it through and do it in the correct way
24:31With our support
24:33If this woman, right, you, has concerns
24:35Bring them up but don't base it on what your ex boyfriend's
24:37Dressed at, right, that's what I'm talking about
24:39Can we agree as parents
24:41To do this, yes or no
24:43Can we? Yeah
24:45Give him a round of applause
24:47We certainly will work hard
24:49And after the break
24:51I'm right back on the JK show
24:53Don't go anywhere
24:55You believe that he's cheating on his girlfriend
24:57I haven't, I know that
24:59I like you so much
25:03He believes his own lies
25:05Messages are there
25:07Why have I pointed it in the red
25:11Thank you
25:17Thank you very much indeed
25:19Welcome back
25:21Now you might remember some of our next guests today
25:23From a previous encounter
25:25Take a look at this, my friends
25:27You're with a guy who admits to stealing
25:29His brother and sister-in-law's children's money
25:31Why would you do that?
25:33Shut up
25:35Interestingly, Mark, Emma's husband
25:37So the bloke, you know, his brother that you live with
25:39I don't think Jordan stole from my kids
25:41He says he's already admitted to the money
25:43It's probably to pay his debts off for drugs
25:45As I know he takes cocaine and cannabis
25:47Not like that
25:49I can't trust him anymore and want nothing more to do with him after this
25:51He needs to get a job, sort his life out
25:53I'm not having to work extra shifts
25:55Just to get my kids' money back
25:57After this, he isn't welcome in my home
25:59Shut up, you idiot
26:01What? You heard
26:03You stole off the children
26:05I've got my reasons for it, alright
26:07From Emma's house
26:09Having admitted to stealing the money
26:11The money that he took from their kids
26:13But you say you were in a desperate position
26:15You didn't know where to turn to
26:17You said, no, I wouldn't do that
26:19So it's all the truth
26:21He was telling the truth
26:25So despite Jordan passing that test
26:27He says that his brother Mark will still not speak to him
26:29And has completely banned him from seeing his nephews and nieces
26:31Jordan says that he paid back all the money he stole from Mark
26:33And he is desperate
26:35Jordan's wife found us to make amends
26:37He also had approved to his girlfriend
26:39He hasn't cheated
26:41As he says, nobody believes a word this guy says anymore
26:43Jordan is back on the Jeremy Kyle show
26:45That way
26:51So it would be fair to say
26:53At the beginning last time
26:55Sit back and relax
26:57Most people, myself included
26:59Would look upon you in a bad way
27:01In a very bad way
27:03What situation?
27:05For drug money
27:07It got passed on to me
27:09You're still on drugs
27:11Why did you refuse to do a drugs test?
27:13Answer that
27:15Because I've got nothing to hide
27:17I'm on cannabis, I'll admit that
27:19I get that nobody believes a word you say
27:21And I get the contriteness and all that
27:23You came back to us and went
27:25Pass the lie detector on the tablet and the iPhone
27:27Freely admit I did something terrible
27:29I want to put it right
27:31My brother wants nothing to do with me
27:33You can't blame the bloke
27:35I know I can't
27:37He's apparently having to do extra shifts
27:39He wasn't here last time, he did a statement
27:41He's here today, he says I'm livid
27:43How would your own blood do that?
27:45That's what I'm saying to you
27:47That's why I'm here today
27:49I paid it all back
27:51The only thing I want now is to get the bomb back
27:53You say he's putting into your girlfriend's head
27:55Your brother, almost in revenge
27:57That you're cheating
27:59Do you have a lie detector to prove to your girlfriend that you haven't cheated?
28:01I'll pass that with colours, I know I will
28:03So she doesn't trust you?
28:05He doesn't trust you?
28:07Jess believes me, it's obviously the past relationships
28:09What Jess has had
28:11You're scared you're losing your family?
28:13Yeah, I'll admit it
28:15I've messed up, I'll put my hands up to it
28:17I just want to sort it, that's all I want
28:19When was the last time you saw your brother?
28:21About three weeks ago
28:23Difficult?
28:25Yeah, because he's the only one I've been close to
28:27You stole off his kids?
28:29You can get angry, I'm just being straight with you
28:31You stole off his kids
28:33You get yourself into a position
28:35I think what was interesting was
28:37His wife said last time, you could have come to us
28:39And we would have helped you out
28:41That's the thing I struggle with, I don't like asking for help
28:43That's why I've arranged counselling
28:45I've got my counselling sessions, I'm trying to sort myself out
28:47I'm trying to get my family back
28:49You say he's ignored all attempts you've made since the show to put things right
28:51Which I don't blame him
28:53It's understandable isn't it
28:55This is why I'm here
28:57As much as I don't want to be here, I want to sort it
28:59What you have to understand is
29:01People get angry
29:03People will naturally be
29:05You know, cynical about you
29:07Where's Emma?
29:11Mark wasn't here last time you were
29:13Can you not look at her?
29:17He's paid back the money
29:19Passed the lie detector on the tablet and the phone
29:21Where do you and Mark sit?
29:23How do you sit on this?
29:25It's hard
29:27My kids are constantly asking for him
29:29I think if it weren't for kids
29:31It would just be done
29:33He's disappointed more than angry at the minute
29:35Still disappointed
29:37It's like he's paid money back so he's put effort in in that way
29:39It's the hardest thing in the world to get over someone's disappointment isn't it?
29:41Anger abates
29:45What's that lie detector?
29:47It's horrible
29:49I wish I didn't do it
29:51I just don't know what else to say
29:53I didn't want to do it
29:55I wouldn't mind if it were once and you said that
29:57But it's twice and it were a year and then a year
29:59Do you know what I mean?
30:01Mark angry?
30:03Let's get Mark on the Jeremy Carl show that way
30:13Nice to meet you
30:15You alright?
30:17Yeah
30:19Why?
30:21Mark I didn't know what else to do
30:23Jordan it's not hard to get off drugs
30:25Mark I'm not on about the drugs
30:27I'm on about the shit I was in
30:29Yeah well why get yourself in that predicament in the first place?
30:31You got passed on to me this is what I'm saying
30:33Well stay away from idiots Jordan
30:35That's what I'm trying to do
30:37I've told you don't you
30:39Stay away from the people
30:41I wish I didn't
30:43It's me that's going to bail you out every time
30:45Every time I've got to bail you out
30:47Yeah I can't thank you enough for it Mark
30:49You don't though do you because you treat me like a deal off my kids
30:55He's lazy he does nothing with his life but take drugs
30:57You've seen a video of him taking cocaine
30:59Yeah Snapchat
31:01His ex-girlfriend
31:03There you go
31:05Is this what your brother wanted you to do?
31:07No I'm not on cocaine no more
31:09Right this is what I've just said backstage
31:11If you're smoking weed right everyone knows
31:13Yeah well I'll admit it
31:15Everyone
31:17You smoke weed we know
31:19Now if you're hiding nothing and I already know about the cannabis
31:21Why aren't you doing a drugs test
31:23To prove you're not still on cocaine
31:25I'll do a drugs test
31:27I'll do a drugs test
31:29I know I'm not on cocaine no more
31:31Send it to what was work I did last week
31:33And what have I got to show for it Jordan
31:35I'll do a drugs test
31:37I'm not on coke no more
31:39Well they've just said they've got one on standby
31:41I'll do it
31:43End of day right I'm not having my kids around drugs
31:45I'm not on cocaine Mark
31:47I'm not working my arse off
31:49And something else about all this
31:51I'm working I'm not working I'm working
31:53I did something last week right just to prove a point
31:55I applied for two jobs last week
31:57Even though I'm already in the job right
31:59Both of them said I'll take you on I want you to start Monday
32:09Off at bucks it's not legit
32:11I've got my money back from what I took
32:13Do you believe that he's cheating on his girlfriend
32:15I haven't I know I haven't
32:17I like you so much
32:19Charles that number lies
32:21He believes his own lies
32:23I know I haven't cheated on Jess
32:25You've been messaging other women though haven't you
32:27Yeah in my past year
32:29But I haven't cheated on Jess
32:31I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth
32:33He said to my team I put a roof over his head I've got him two jobs
32:35And he walked out of them because he's lazy
32:37He's cheated on girls in the past he'll definitely fail the test
32:39Hey what colour are you
32:41Blue or white
32:43Blue
32:45Hey and why is that here
32:47If you want up to you babe
32:49Laid in bed you babe
32:51Who's that to
32:53When were these sent
32:55I don't know I don't even know what it's to
32:57I don't know when that was
32:59It doesn't say date or out on it
33:01What you want to do Saturday cinema
33:03You've sent that
33:05Yeah but it says
33:07What do you want to do Saturday cinema
33:09But you're also supposed to have took his girlfriend to the cinema the same Saturday
33:11Your lads been mailing my best mate for a couple of months
33:13And then blocked her as soon as she found out he was with you
33:15Joking me when did he block her
33:17Last night when she saw her on a road trip and liked it
33:19I don't know what that means
33:21Have you been
33:23You're messaging other women right
33:25Not since me and Jess got serious no
33:27When did you get serious last week
33:29How long have you been together
33:31Since we got back together on 5th January this year
33:33That's when we started fresh
33:35The reason Jess is doing this lie detector test
33:37Is because I've planted it in her head
33:39Messages are there
33:41Why have I planted it in her head
33:43I haven't said nothing
33:45Don't shout at me I'm telling you now
33:47Do not shout at me
33:49I'm trying to prove a point
33:51I haven't said nothing
33:53Calm it down
33:55Because I haven't said no
33:57Don't disrespect me
33:59You already disrespected Jeremy last time
34:01Don't disrespect me
34:03You know people say to me
34:05Sorry I'm going to sound like your dad now
34:07People say to me it's hard
34:09It is
34:11And temptation is easy
34:13It is
34:15And it's a struggle nowadays
34:17This man is living proof
34:19That you can have a girlfriend
34:21You can have kids
34:23You don't have to take drugs
34:25And you can get off your backside and get a job
34:27And this man has every attribute
34:29Because that's what he does
34:31Why are you different
34:33I had a really bad upbringing
34:35You had the same
34:37Why didn't you turn out like that
34:39What do you want from him today
34:41Do you think he's going to fail this lie detector test
34:43Can we get her out
34:45I thought she was nice last time
34:47Jess was sort of putting her neck on the line
34:49And I was saying why are you with somebody like this
34:51She got angry
34:53But you did pass the test
34:55And I said to her there's obviously someone there
34:57Jess is on the Jeremy Carr show
34:59You said
35:01Mark won't let children in the house
35:03He's very angry
35:05And you understand that
35:07Completely
35:09Do you think he's on drugs
35:11Now that he's refused the lie detector
35:13Not the drug test
35:15I'm not on cocaine
35:17I'll do the drugs test
35:19I'll do it
35:21I'll admit I'm on cannabis still
35:23But I'm not on cocaine
35:25I'm really not
35:27I'll do the lie detector
35:29Why do you think he's been cheating
35:31You've seen his messages
35:33I'm a bit 50-50
35:35I received the messages at the beginning of January
35:37I questioned him about it
35:39Sent him screenshots
35:41He said it was way before we got together
35:43Way before
35:45You restarted in January
35:47Was it the 5th or the 10th
35:495th
35:51Obviously I thought it was the 10th
35:53You thought it was the 10th
35:55I didn't know what date we got together
35:57I asked Jess
35:59Why would your brother know the date you got together
36:01And your girlfriend but you don't
36:03We put it on Facebook on the 10th
36:05That's when I thought we got together
36:07Facebook on the 10th
36:09Right
36:11Obviously you thought you got together that day
36:13You know you've been in a relationship 5 days before that
36:15We'll do this
36:17Because you say I haven't cheated on her
36:19And I'll set you a challenge
36:21We'll go to a break
36:23Your brother says
36:25You're saying I will
36:27I'm still angry but I'll wipe the slate clean
36:29If you can prove you're not on anything harder than cannabis
36:31Right
36:33As long as he's not doing it round my kids
36:35Who fails this
36:37I've already said to you producers
36:39She comes first
36:41I know I haven't cheated
36:43Your brother's saying your girlfriend comes first
36:45I haven't
36:47I'm not surprised with what I've done
36:49I'll admit I've put my hands up to what I've done
36:51From the examiner
36:53Jordan says that during his 4 year relationship with Jess
36:55They've had many breaks when both have had other sexual partners
36:57Is that right
36:59We asked him since you restarted your relationship with Jess
37:01On the 5th of January this year
37:03Have you had sexual intercourse with anyone else
37:05Why did you say no
37:07Because I was telling the truth
37:09He was telling the truth Mark
37:13Since you restarted your relationship with Jess
37:15On the 5th of January this year
37:17Have you had sexual contact with anyone else
37:19Because I was telling the truth on every single question
37:27Do you love this woman
37:29Do you love this man
37:31I'm going to a break
37:33You go and do a drugs test right now
37:35He knows you're on cannabis
37:37Anything stronger I think you're in trouble
37:39We'll be back after the break
37:41Have you done it
37:43How old were you when you found out you were adopted
37:459
37:47What were you told about your parents
37:49My mother was a prostitute
37:51She had 5 other children
37:53She gave them all up as well
37:57Do you know who that is on the right
37:59Ralph
38:01It's your brother Ralph
38:05He's here, Ralph is on the Jeremy Carlson
38:17Do you have evidence to prove it
38:19Like home videos, recordings or texts
38:21That you want to confront someone with
38:23If you're 18 or over
38:25And you'd like to be considered for the show
38:27Email talk at ITV.com along with your number
38:29Text talk plus your name to 63334
38:31Text plus 25 pence plus one standard rate message
38:33Or you can call my team today
38:35It's 09011
38:37It's 123456
38:39Calls cost 25 pence plus network access charge
38:47Right, welcome back
38:49Before the break
38:51I'm just going to go and grab Jordan in a sec
38:53He's agreed to this drugs test under a bit of pressure
38:55I completely understand where you're coming from
38:57You and your wife and Jess, I think you're amazing
38:59You've sort of supported this blow
39:01He did nick the money, he admitted that
39:03He's paid it back, he's passed the lie detector
39:05Is this the final thing if he passes this drugs test
39:07Yeah, but he's also got to realise
39:09The trust doesn't just come from nowhere
39:11Do you know what's interesting about you
39:13You would be, as I said before the break
39:15He's got a role model for him
39:17And you'd think that he'd inspire him to do something with his life
39:19Does he listen to him?
39:21No
39:23Well he needs to, doesn't he
39:25We're going to just collect him quickly
39:27I don't know what the situation is
39:29I know that he's done the drugs test over here
39:31Spent my life, isn't it, off to the toilets to collect a man
39:33That didn't sound right, did it
39:35Right
39:37Have you done it?
39:39Yeah
39:41Have you got the test result, Grey?
39:43OK, let's do it back on stage
39:45Because I think it would be nice if it's OK to do it in front of Mark
39:47OK, listen, you admitted what you did wrong
39:49And you did the lie detector
39:51You passed and then this is it
39:53Your brother says this is a massively important moment
39:55He's back, give him a round of applause
40:05Prior to the test he admitted to cannabis use
40:07And he came up positive for cannabis
40:09And negative for any other substance
40:13Thanks, James
40:15Thank you
40:17Now
40:19Right, now
40:21You said I'm
40:23Yeah, I know
40:25So, you didn't steal the iPhone or the tablet
40:27You haven't cheated on your girlfriend
40:29And you're only taking cannabis
40:31I would be really boring
40:33Because I'm old enough to be your dad
40:35Why don't you try the whole clean slate
40:37And stop smoking cannabis
40:39And get off your back
40:41Because
40:43Presumably the drug thing was what got you in the mess already
40:45Right?
40:47I've got counselling on the 21st, I've got six weeks counselling
40:49We've checked that it's true
40:51We accept you've got the counselling, right?
40:53But you've got to understand
40:55You put yourself in a position
40:57More importantly you put them in a position
40:59Yeah, which I never wished
41:01I really didn't want to
41:03What happens now?
41:05Tell him
41:07What do you want?
41:09You know how much it means to me
41:11You know how much I'm going to trust you
41:13And I'll build it back
41:15I'll do whatever it takes
41:17I'll do whatever it takes
41:19I just want the bomb back
41:21Get a job, get off drugs
41:23I'll do anything
41:25Anything
41:27I really will
41:29Jordan, I've given you jobs
41:31I've given you a place to live
41:33How can you not learn from me when you've been around me all your life?
41:35I'll sort it, I will
41:37I'll prove it
41:39I think he might try
41:41He's done three tests, he's passed them
41:43I absolutely understand your anger, Mark
41:45But you need to understand
41:47He's a good role model
41:49And your girlfriend's a good lady as well
41:51So learn the lesson
41:53I don't want to see you again
41:55I don't want to be here again, to be honest
41:57Make the most of your life, alright?
41:59Good to meet you
42:01Jess, thanks for coming back
42:03Thank you
42:09My next guest is already on stage
42:11To meet one of her long lost siblings
42:13Now Deb says she was told when she was adopted when she was nine
42:15And for the last 18 years has been looking
42:17For four siblings, even hiring a private detective
42:19She is over the moon that this show
42:21Has found one of her family members and said that this day
42:23Is absolutely life changing
42:25Very nervous, very excited
42:27Deb's on the car show
42:29Give her a round of applause
42:33You're really different for us
42:35Because people usually come here and they do an appeal
42:37You know that we've had some success
42:39Tell us
42:41You look so...
42:43Tell us the back story, sweet
42:45Because this is, I mean you were
42:47How old were you when you found out that you were adopted?
42:49Nine
42:51What's that like? Does it register at nine?
42:53Yeah, it messed with me head
42:55It just messed with me completely
42:57All of your life?
42:59I rebelled against everything
43:01You said, I did have a good upbringing
43:03A lot of people say, oh it was rubbish
43:05But yours was alright
43:07Yeah
43:09But I rebelled because I thought
43:11Why does anybody want to
43:13Not want me?
43:15You didn't try and find your mum
43:17You had this thing in your head
43:19I was abandoned, why would I
43:21Yeah
43:23What were you told about your parents?
43:25Well
43:27My mother was a prostitute
43:29And
43:31She had five other children
43:33And she gave them all up as well
43:35You were very
43:37Very candid and you said
43:39I didn't really, until she passed
43:41I didn't look, I didn't think it would be
43:43The right thing to do
43:45You said, I've just hit brick wall after brick wall
43:47You're 58, what has
43:49Oh bless you
43:53Why did you try us?
43:55Why did you try us?
43:57Because I'm the last resort
43:59Do you know how many people say I'm the last resort?
44:01Now usually
44:03You can have the old box
44:05Hey
44:07Let's not cry now, let's be happy
44:09Because guess what the amazing people that work
44:11On this show have done
44:13You know this don't you?
44:15What did we tell you?
44:17That they found somebody
44:19Thank you
44:23Who's that a picture of?
44:25I don't know
44:27Is she dad?
44:29Alright
44:31Do you know who that is on the right?
44:33No
44:35It's your brother Ralph
44:37You alright?
44:39He's here
44:41Ralph is on the Jeremy Carr show
44:55Thank you
45:05Ralph welcome to the show, how are you my friend?
45:07I'm fine thank you
45:09You grew up in care from the age of
45:11Six
45:13Very honest, you said it was tough
45:15Yeah, very tough
45:17Always wanted to meet your siblings
45:19Yeah, searched high and low for them
45:21You searched as well
45:23What does today mean?
45:25Oh god
45:27I can't explain it
45:29It's a missing part of my life
45:31A big part
45:33Just have to look at it
45:35I
45:37One of the things that we try and do
45:39And again we have critics
45:41But we do try and do things properly
45:43And there are many procedures that people just don't see
45:45But one of the things that I want to talk about
45:47Specifically with you guys who have never had any
45:49You know we're talking plus 50 years
45:51We work with you and we do our best to make sure
45:53I want you to come with me
45:55I want to spend a little bit of time with Graham
45:57Are you alright to walk?
45:59Bring your sister, come on
46:01You've got two of us now
46:03We're just going to take you on this little step
46:05Are you alright?
46:07Do you want my arm as well or just your brothers?
46:09She's gone right on my arm
46:11You're better looking than me
46:13I wouldn't know about that
46:15There's a comeback you could say
46:17I've got more air than you
46:19Thank you
46:27One of the important things with any reunion
46:29Part is that we
46:31A lot of people think it's going to be easy
46:33It's going to be wonderful, it's going to be really really quick
46:35There's a lot of things that need discussing
46:37There's a lot of things that need
46:39Organising
46:41Come and take a seat my darling
46:43You sit there
46:45Thank you
46:47Take a seat as well
46:49We always do these parts
46:51And we perhaps, I don't know
46:53Sometimes don't show
46:55This is a process now isn't it?
46:57They've never seen each other
46:59Very slow process
47:01That's the important thing
47:03Just take everything slowly
47:05Well not too slowly
47:07Because I've got another surprise for you
47:09This is your sister Sandra
47:17Oh my god
47:25Oh my god
47:27We've also got something else for you
47:29Got a statement from Stephen
47:31Oh no
47:33Your brother, I'm completely stunned
47:35You've managed to find my sister Jez
47:37Up until I was a teenager I thought I was the only child
47:39Then I found out my cousin Ralph was actually my brother
47:41Ten years ago I met Sandra
47:43My brother's been chasing Debbie for years
47:45I'm over the moon
47:47I can only hope she's doing well
47:49I'm so looking forward to meeting and getting to know her
47:51And welcoming her after all these years
47:53Into our family
47:55Are you happy?
47:57Very nice to meet you
47:59And you sir
48:01Thank you very much
48:03Over the moon
48:05Just take it slowly
48:07This man will do his usual work
48:09All those years
48:11You won't get those back
48:13I'm so so grateful
48:15We could help
48:17Give him a round of applause
48:19Thank you very much
48:21Wow
48:23What a lovely way to end
48:25If you want to be here you need my help
48:27Visit my website
48:29The details are on screen
48:31I'll see you very soon
48:33Bye for now
48:43Music
48:47Music
48:51Music
48:55Music
48:59Music