The Jeremy Kyle Show (28 March 2018)

  • 2 days ago
The Jeremy Kyle Show (28 March 2018)
Transcript
00:00You're watching On Demand. Please check the closing time before trying to vote or enter any competition or other interactivity in this programme, as it may not count and you may still be charged.
00:10On today's show, the first guest, Tony, is here for a DNA test for his 19-year-old daughter, Crystal, a girl he claims has been poisoned against him by his cheating ex-wife, Colleen, and her violent, controlling son, Chris.
00:22I tried my best to accept her children.
00:29Do you believe she's your daughter?
00:31I'm about 60%.
00:42Who's the maggot?
00:46Wasn't he accused of attempted murder?
00:48No!
00:51You planned it with him.
00:54If he's such a big man, Chris, how come you brought someone round with you when you beat me up?
00:58He dragged me on for you. He saved your life.
01:01He poisoned and you're the liar.
01:05You destroyed him. You destroyed my family.
01:08You destroyed yourself.
01:19CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
01:28Hello, my friends. Good morning and a big, big welcome to the show. Right, my first guest, Tony, is here for a DNA test for his 19-year-old daughter, Crystal, a girl he claims has been poisoned against him by his cheating ex-wife, Colleen, and her violent, controlling son, Chris.
01:41Now, Tony claims that access has been made near impossible since he and Colleen split when Crystal was just three.
01:46And today, if DNA proves that Crystal is his daughter, he wants to tell her the truth instead of the lies he says she's been told her whole life by her mother.
01:53Big day for this guy, Tony, is on the Jeremy Carl Show. That way.
01:56CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
02:04See, we're all smart this morning, aren't we, sir? We're all smart. Look at the part.
02:07Tony, welcome to the Jeremy Carl Show.
02:10Colleen's your ex, you were together nine years.
02:13Kelly is your daughter, but today it centres on 19-year-old Crystal, potentially your daughter.
02:19You and Colleen, let's talk about the relationship, let's talk about why we're here today. Take us back, give us some history.
02:24Well, it started off OK when we first met.
02:26Well, that's always a good thing. How did you meet?
02:29There probably wasn't Twitter and that in 19...
02:31No, no, it was local paper.
02:34Ad in the local paper? What, desperate man wants woman?
02:38Did you put an advert in? No, not desperate, no.
02:40Did you put an advert in the Lonely Hearts column?
02:42No, I answered her advert.
02:44She put one in? Yeah.
02:45See, you lot, you youngsters are all laughing, but let me tell you something,
02:49that's what people had to do in the old days, didn't they, Steve?
02:55So, what happened? What happened?
02:57Well, no, we'd known each other for... It went pretty well, the dates,
03:03and we knew each other for about nine years, then we decided...
03:06Were you living together?
03:07Yeah, we were living together, and we decided to get married.
03:13After nine years? After nine years, yeah.
03:16You had children from a previous relationship, how many?
03:19That's right, four. OK, which she was aware of.
03:22Did Colleen have any children at all?
03:24Yeah, she had two from her previous marriage.
03:27Was it easy? Sorry, three, she had three.
03:32Do you want a calculator? Yeah.
03:35Were you both able quite easily to accept the other's offspring or not?
03:40Well, I tried my best to accept her children.
03:45You never did, you liar!
03:48You never did, you never accepted my children, so don't say that.
03:54Are you Colleen? I am, yeah.
03:56Come on when I tell you to come on, goodbye.
03:58APPLAUSE
04:02Back to the story.
04:04So she got pregnant with Crystal.
04:07Crystal, yeah. You must have been over the moon. I was, yeah.
04:10Then why are we on The Jeremy Carr Show 19 years later,
04:12asking for a DNA test? Help me out.
04:14Well, a couple of things happened around the time before Crystal was born.
04:18Presumably you believe that she slept with someone else. Yeah.
04:21Why? Based on what?
04:23Well, there was a time where Colleen was working
04:27at my mum's shop in Uxbridge.
04:30It was a camera shop.
04:32And my mum was on a dinner hour and she said to Colleen,
04:37the shop was empty, she said to Colleen,
04:40could you manage the shop while I go on my break?
04:43Anyway... Come on, make it exciting for me.
04:47Nowadays when we do shows, it's about people taking pictures
04:50and sending it, not what sandwich they had in 1970 when they went on a break.
04:54Come on, Tone, spice it up a bit.
04:56OK, well, when my mum got back to the shop,
04:59there was a queue a mile long out the door.
05:01Colleen wasn't anywhere to be seen behind the counter.
05:04She was not behind the counter or she was behind the counter?
05:07She wasn't when my mum returned to the shop. Where was she?
05:10Apparently she was upstairs with some man.
05:12AUDIENCE GASPS
05:15God!
05:18You liar!
05:20Colleen, Colleen, what's the show called?
05:23Jeremy Kyle.
05:30So, in black and white terms,
05:32she was developing a relationship with somebody else.
05:35Come on!
05:37So, did anybody catch her in an uncomfortable position
05:40or uncompromising position?
05:43My mother asked one of the customers at the counter,
05:46where's Colleen?
05:48And they said, oh, she's gone up the stairs with some chap.
05:52And for a queue to develop a mile long out the door...
05:55Yeah, but this queue, was it developing
05:57because they'd heard that he was having his wicked way
05:59or were they waiting to get their Kodak sorted?
06:03So, is there any proof that anything happened there?
06:05That was the first thing. Did you confront her about that?
06:07Yeah, I did, yeah. What did she say?
06:09Yeah, she didn't really give me a straight answer about that at all.
06:14So, we just carried on after that.
06:17What's the other reason why you believe the crystal might not be yours,
06:2019 years later?
06:22Well, something else happened.
06:24She drove round to some guy's house in Ryslip
06:28and it was like one of these bedsits above a shop.
06:33A camera shop? No, not a camera shop.
06:38And me and my daughter, we decided to sort of follow her
06:41where she was going
06:43and she was in this bedsit with this chap.
06:46She's got a bit of form, hasn't she?
06:48Why has it taken you 19 years on a serious note to ask for a DNA?
06:52Because the other side, your daughter Crystal, Colleen, your ex,
06:55and her son are saying this is a pathetic excuse
06:57for a man who's never been a father, never stood up, never provided.
07:00You say she's been poisoned. She's my kid, I want her in my life.
07:03And why are we doing a DNA test if you don't think she's not your kid?
07:06Basically, because I thought about this a few years ago
07:09but I didn't want to put Crystal through that because she was young.
07:13But now I think, now she's 19.
07:15Do you believe she's your daughter?
07:17I'm about 60%.
07:19If she is, what do you want from today?
07:21You want to put your side, I guess.
07:23Yeah, I want to show her that I still love her
07:26and I've always cared about her.
07:28And I've always been proud of her.
07:31Shall we get her out? Colleen's on the Jeremy Carr Show that way.
07:34CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
07:42I don't want to sit next to you.
07:44How long is it since you saw each other?
07:46About six years ago, when he took me back to court yet again.
07:50What for?
07:52Oh, because he wasn't seeing Crystal.
07:54Is Crystal his daughter? Yes.
07:56Then why isn't he seeing her and why have you poisoned her mind?
07:59I haven't poisoned her mind. Are we doing a DNA test?
08:02No, he's asked for it last night.
08:05Have you ever prevented him from seeing your kid?
08:08No, I haven't. Oh, yes, you have. No, I haven't. You have.
08:11I haven't. Why do you think you have? I haven't.
08:14Every court hearing... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
08:16Every court hearing that you took me to...
08:19You agreed to go along with the court order, right?
08:22Yeah, and I did for so long. Yeah, for about a month.
08:25Oh, no. Until you turned round and said to me,
08:28I'll have petrol money to pick your daughter up.
08:31No, I've never asked for petrol money. Oh, yes, you did.
08:34No, I haven't. Oh, yes, you did. Fabrication.
08:37No, it isn't. Fabrication.
08:39Cos I work for my children.
08:41And like you... Yeah.
08:43Unemployed. Yeah, unemployed.
08:46You can't pay CSA towards that.
08:48Yes, because that's all you wanted. No.
08:50Have you paid for this child?
08:53We had an agreement. No, no, no. Rewind.
08:55No, I haven't. Why not? I've had... Why not?
08:58I've bought... Why not? Because we had an agreement.
09:00What, her agreement? She just said to you,
09:02you don't care about the welfare of your child.
09:04Yes, I do care about it. How can you, then,
09:06put food on her table and clothes on her back?
09:09Explain that to me. Come on. Come on.
09:13We had an agreement.
09:15What's the agreement, that you'd do nothing, yeah?
09:17No, I would pay for shoes or clothing that Crystal needed.
09:20And that was the agreement. Why are you not providing
09:22regular money for a child that you say is yours?
09:25Because I'm unemployed at the moment.
09:27How long have you been unemployed for? She's 19.
09:30I've been unemployed for a little while.
09:32Well, how long? 19 years.
09:36Was he working when you were with him?
09:38Sorry? Was he working when you were with him?
09:40I think in the time that we were together, he had one job.
09:43Have you been unemployed for 19 years? No. No.
09:46Well, then, why haven't you paid money, then?
09:51Serious question. Come on.
09:53You can't just breeze in after 19 years,
09:55whether or not she might or might not have poisoned the kid,
09:57and say, oh, I want this, I want that.
09:59You've done nothing. Why have you done nothing?
10:01I've tried to send letters, I've tried to...
10:03No, money, mate. Money, money, money, money, money. Go on. Why?
10:06She takes the money and Crystal doesn't get it.
10:09I've had no money at all.
10:11I've had money, what I've earned.
10:14You have never let me see Crystal.
10:17Have you prevented him? No.
10:19Well, then, why hasn't he seen her?
10:21The times you've seen her and the times you've brought her things,
10:25were they new? No.
10:27They were off eBay, cos she came back and told me.
10:31She came back and told me you got her clothes off eBay.
10:35No, rubbish. eBay? Absolute rubbish.
10:37Oh, no, it isn't rubbish.
10:39What sort of father has he been? Terrible.
10:41You say, which is quite ironic, the audience should know this,
10:44that it wasn't the relationship fail because he was a liar
10:47and he was a cheat, he was outspreading it everywhere.
10:49Yes, he was.
10:51Too tired to work cos he'd had so much sex.
10:54He had three mobile phones.
10:56How do you pay for them?
10:59You're not a drug dealer, are you?
11:01Fabrication, no. Not fabrication.
11:05Give me the suit, please.
11:07If you do me a favour, the last time you went anywhere near her,
11:09the police got involved.
11:11Get off my stage until I tell you to get off my stage.
11:13Oh, I'm staying here. Get off, get off.
11:18Nose to this, back in a minute, don't go anywhere.
11:21You used my mum's health to go and cheat on her.
11:24And that's why I look after her.
11:26You're bloody drugged up, you don't know nothing.
11:28You are the barrier. You was a man.
11:30You intervened, interfered.
11:32And you tried for your child.
11:34He's a waste of space, he's a useless father.
11:43Have you been left holding the baby and you want to confront your ex?
11:46Maybe you're raising someone else's child.
11:48If you're 16 or over and you'd like to be considered for the show,
11:51email talk at itv.com along with your number.
11:54Text TALK plus your name to 63334.
11:56Text costs 25 pence plus one standard rate message.
11:59Or you can call my team today.
12:01It's 09011. It's 123456.
12:03Calls cost 25 pence plus network access charge.
12:15Thank you very much indeed. Welcome back for the break.
12:17Tony and Colleen, separate stories.
12:19The person in the middle is a 19-year-old girl,
12:21your daughter. You say, he's never bothered, he's never paid,
12:24he's never tried, he's never done anything.
12:26He was a liar, he was a cheat. He is the father, he's just a waster.
12:29You say, hold on, she was all over the place,
12:32situations with men, I've never known the truth.
12:35I haven't really provided and it has taken me 19 years to do this.
12:38But you are a good dad, your daughter Kelly will verify that.
12:41Kelly's on the Jeremy Carr Show that way.
12:51What's the truth there, Kelly?
12:53The truth is, my dad's brought us up as a young age,
12:56all four of us children, and she used to abuse us when we were...
13:01Yeah! Yes, she did!
13:03Oh! Never, ever!
13:05Across the stage, Dan!
13:07Get off! Get off!
13:11Who's the maggot? Him!
13:13Oh, don't threaten him!
13:15Excuse me!
13:17You told my team that she abused you when you were in...
13:20Where was your dad, then? He was at work.
13:22He went to work! Round of applause!
13:25Where's the money, then?
13:27Why hasn't your dad given any money for this kid
13:30he doesn't suddenly think his is?
13:32He had all... Shush! Oi, be quiet!
13:35Go on. He had all four of us children
13:37and she used to do a runner all the time, so...
13:40So he's tried for years? He's tried for years.
13:43He wouldn't even be here today if he didn't even care for Crystal.
13:47It's taken him 19 years, though, isn't it?
13:49Yeah, it has, hasn't it, Jeremy?
13:51Right, the other guy who's integral to this story is Chris.
13:53Now, Chris is your son. Yes.
13:55He told my team,
13:57I did get into trouble once, and the reason I got into trouble
14:00was I hated this control freak, I hated this man
14:02who abused my mother and my sister,
14:04so one day I thought, I've had enough of this,
14:06and I'll go and get them, and he took you away
14:08and that's when the relationship ended.
14:10Didn't he attack you, though?
14:12Because he...
14:14Didn't he assault you? Didn't he go to court?
14:16Wasn't he accused of attempted murder?
14:18No! Attempted murder?
14:20Yeah. I was there!
14:22You planned it with him. I took you to work that day.
14:25He didn't go to jail, though, did he?
14:27No. Chris is on the Jeremy Carr Show that week.
14:36Big man of Hemel Hempstead.
14:40If you're such a big man, Chris,
14:42how come you brought someone round with you
14:44and gave me the...beat me up?
14:47He dragged me off of you! He saved your life!
14:50Really? So you're condoning what you did, you thug, are you?
14:53I don't condone what I did.
14:55Then why are you sitting on that stage giving it large again, then?
15:02Who put a roof over your head, Chris? Shut your mouth!
15:05Who put a roof over your head when you was in trouble
15:07with Dutch drug dealers up north?
15:09I want to hear what he has to say.
15:11He used my mother's ill health in forms of letter,
15:14obviously, back in the day.
15:16I looked after your mother. No, you.
15:18No, you never did. I did. No, you didn't.
15:20I was up and down the motorway looking after you
15:23in the hospital.
15:25You used my mother's ill health to go and beat on her.
15:30I looked after your mother.
15:32I'll do it again and again and again.
15:34So you're doing it again, then?
15:36You've done it again? You're a twisted nit.
15:38So now, on camera, you can be accused of threatening him, yeah?
15:41I can't. You're a twisted nutter.
15:43I am. I am.
15:45And I was standing up...
15:47..over your head, then, when you were in trouble
15:49with drug dealers up here. What?
15:51Drug dealers? You might have said to me,
15:53oh, can you put Chris up because he's in trouble?
15:56And I put him... It weren't because of drug dealers.
15:58No, it weren't. You told me it's only for three days.
16:00It had nothing to do with drug dealers.
16:02I did everything for you. No, you didn't.
16:04Yes, I did. I put a roof over your head.
16:07What was it like growing up?
16:09Let's hear the story, because Kelly came out and said
16:11that your mum, Colleen, when he was apparently out working,
16:14used to abuse the kids. What's your view?
16:16No, that is... Well, talk!
16:18You don't know!
16:20You don't know!
16:22Your head's so bloody drugged up, you don't know nothing.
16:25I'm willing to do a drug test today.
16:27You told my team... I'm going to do that.
16:29Hello, you told my team you saw Tony assault your mother.
16:32Tell us more. Yes, he raised his...
16:34I've never laid a finger on anyone.
16:36The first time I beat you up, I was 15 years old.
16:39The first time I beat you up, you raised your hand to my mother.
16:42No, I didn't. Yes, you did.
16:44Oh, yes, you did. That's fabricated between you and him.
16:47No, it isn't. No, it isn't.
16:49All you wanted was to take...
16:51No, no, no. Yes, you did.
16:53No, no, no. Oh, you're a...
16:55You're the biggest liar.
16:57You're the liar. You're the...
16:59When I was... He poisoned.
17:01He poisoned and you're the liar.
17:03I'm poisoned. Yeah, you are.
17:05When I was in hospital... Excuse me.
17:07..having your daughter... Who was you?
17:09I was there. Who's been married for 15 years?
17:11Yeah, you were there. Really?
17:13You were there for 15 years. Because I know that from her.
17:15Oh. And the others. I don't need to do anything.
17:17Oh, yeah. You had no choice but to go...
17:19You were assaulting her.
17:21No, she wasn't. Yes, you were.
17:23If I wasn't there, how could I?
17:25Even in the same house.
17:27Oh, yeah. Hey, if I wasn't there...
17:29That was taken off after. See, that's all well and good,
17:31but you haven't done enough in the last 19 years, have you?
17:33At the end of the day, that's what we're here for.
17:35Him. It's him. Because of him.
17:37Oh, it's him.
17:39You don't have a family to think about, you...
17:41I don't have a family. Where?
17:43Where? You're the biggest...
17:45Because you destroyed him. You destroyed my family.
17:47No, you destroyed yourself.
17:49You destroyed him. You both destroyed my family.
17:51Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:53You're just as bad as him.
17:55You're just as bad as him.
17:57Huh, am I? You know something?
17:59You know something? Over the years,
18:01I've actually tried to encourage your daughter to see you,
18:03because I know how it feels. Oh, really? Really?
18:05Yeah. Really? Yeah, I have.
18:07It's taken you 19 years, has it?
18:09No, it's taken you 19 years, mate.
18:11Yeah, because of you.
18:13Not you, because of me. You're the barrier.
18:15You haven't seen your daughter.
18:17You're the barrier, Chris. You are the barrier.
18:19You was a man who stepped up to the plate...
18:21You were a man who stepped up to the plate...
18:23..and you provided for your child.
18:25APPLAUSE
18:27APPLAUSE
18:31I would have to be a man to turn you back and walk the other way.
18:33So your drug money provides for your family, does it?
18:35No, I go out to work five and a half days a week.
18:37I go out to work five and a half days a week.
18:41You know you're on drugs,
18:43because you told me when I drove you home once.
18:45I used to take cannabis.
18:47So what happens then? Hello, what happens then?
18:49Crystal decides if the DNA proves
18:51he's the dad that she wants to see him.
18:53What happens then? That's fine, because...
18:55Well, he says he's too scared because of matey boy.
18:59Way too busy, way too busy.
19:01What, you're going to set up a few blokes
19:03to come round and sort me out, are you?
19:05No, I don't need to do that!
19:07Yeah, cos that's what you like.
19:09Maybe he's not, that makes you what you like, Chris.
19:11What's my back? What's my back?
19:13Yeah, what's going on behind my back? Nothing.
19:19Did you ever hit her? Never.
19:21Yes, you did. No, I did not.
19:23That was fully my fault.
19:25I've seen the bruises.
19:27I've seen the bruises, yeah.
19:29I've seen the bruises, I've seen the letters.
19:31I've seen...
19:33That was completely...
19:35What, me? I've never hit my own mother.
19:37Right, Crystal's the girl stuck in the middle.
19:39What if he is the father and you're right?
19:41He has to surely step up, or have you poisoned him?
19:43He has to step up.
19:45Step up? Every time I step up, you knock me down.
19:47Well, then...
19:49..if you really care.
19:51I'm not. I'm not.
19:53Right, let's get around the girl in the middle.
19:55She's the one we feel sorry for.
19:57Crystal's on the Jeremy Carr Show That Way.
19:59CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
20:05Crystal, welcome to the show.
20:07What's the truth here, darling?
20:09He's a waste of space. He's a useless father.
20:11Do you believe he's your father?
20:13Yeah, of course. What's he done?
20:15You've got to answer your kid, mate.
20:17Absolutely nothing. Not you, shut up.
20:19Well, this is you controlling her, isn't it?
20:21Let her speak, then. I have my own mind.
20:23You were never like this. Well, let her speak!
20:25She grew up.
20:27Be quiet. Go on. Yeah, you made her.
20:29Until I grew up... Can she speak?
20:31..got my own mind, you were fine.
20:33Shut up! She's 19 years old.
20:35Go on, Crystal.
20:37You've done nothing for me.
20:39Mum's been there for me more than you have.
20:41Isn't it true your own father, potentially your own father,
20:43demanded money off you?
20:45Yeah, when I got my first job. Is that true?
20:47Not true. Waster. No. Not true.
20:49Waster. It is true. It is not true.
20:51She showed me the text... I want to talk to Crystal,
20:53not you lot. Shut up!
20:55Go on. This is all work by you,
20:57Christopher. You...
20:59Why don't you ignore him and concentrate
21:01on your potential daughter?
21:03APPLAUSE
21:05What?
21:07What?
21:09Just let them speak.
21:11I'll mouth something off. Is he going to say something?
21:13How could I make contact with Crystal?
21:15Can I please speak to this girl?
21:17You told my team that you were traumatised at seven
21:19because he told you something about your mother.
21:21What did he say?
21:23He said that my mum was going to die.
21:25Why did you say that to her?
21:27Well, you're not going to call her a liar as well?
21:29I never said that.
21:31You're not going to call your own daughter a liar?
21:33Be quiet. Oi, let her speak, Chris,
21:35cos you're not doing the right thing. Come on.
21:37I never said anything. Talk to your dad, potentially.
21:39Shut up!
21:41You traumatised me from day one.
21:43No, I didn't.
21:45Why did you verbally abuse me when I was 14?
21:47You shouted in my face
21:49that my mum was mentally ill
21:51and I had nowhere to run.
21:53No, I didn't, Crystal. Yes, you did.
21:55Everyone's a liar apart from you.
21:57I'm not lying. What do you want from today?
22:01I just want him to leave me alone.
22:03I want him to stop calling the police
22:05when it's not necessary.
22:07He called the police two weeks ago.
22:09Why? Cos he was concerned of my welfare.
22:11He was concerned about her wellbeing.
22:13Why? Because him there, Mr Big,
22:15was phoning her up constantly
22:17when she was at a job interview.
22:19Why would she phone the police? When?
22:21I phoned the... What?
22:23When? You said he was on a job interview.
22:25I found out he was on a job interview.
22:27And you kept...
22:29Why were you kept phoning her?
22:31To make sure she was ready for her interview.
22:33To make sure that she was, like, not worried.
22:35He's a decent brother, a decent dad to his own kids.
22:37So you're taking my place, basically?
22:39He's a decent brother and decent dad.
22:41He's been accused of attempted murder, love.
22:43I suppose that. That was...
22:45That was years ago. He made me do that.
22:47He made me do it.
22:49The drugs made you do that.
22:51My defence, Your Honour, is that I tried to kill somebody
22:53but it was their fault.
22:55Oh, yeah. When I was in court...
22:57I can't speak.
22:59When I was in court...
23:01Will you shut up a minute?
23:03The phone call that he made
23:05to your dad
23:07to see how I was
23:09and your dad turned around to my son
23:11and said,
23:13Oh, me and your mum are getting a divorce.
23:15Nothing that I knew about.
23:17What happened in court?
23:19Come on, I was up for attempted murder. What happened in court?
23:21Yeah, you were grinning at me in front.
23:23You were sat in front grinning at me.
23:25When the judge turned around
23:27and said, I have no other...
23:29Like, I'm dismissing the case, basically,
23:31because you acted up
23:33and you got found out.
23:35Found out for what?
23:37When I was covered in bruises.
23:39Covered in bruises.
23:41You two, in my humble opinion,
23:43have continued for however many years
23:45to make this all about your damn selves
23:47instead of this girl that's stuck in the middle.
23:49APPLAUSE
23:51I'm not having a go.
23:53Make it about Crystal.
23:55Be quiet.
23:57You know he's your father.
23:59Away from all this.
24:01Don't you want a relationship with this bloke?
24:03It's not worth it.
24:05It should be your decision, not anybody else's.
24:07Yeah, it's not worth it. I've made up my own mind.
24:09It's not nice growing up with just one parent, Crystal.
24:11And it's not nice growing up...
24:13I'm doing fine.
24:15What was it, Colleen?
24:17You're doing it again, you idiot.
24:19You can't talk to your potential own kid.
24:21I'll tell you what, take three minutes,
24:23work out what you're going to do if he is your father
24:25and work out one thing, whatever your daughter says
24:27or whatever him says, right?
24:29You haven't done enough for 19 years, mate.
24:31I thought everything was against me, but it's such a hard time.
24:33You need to kick up your backside.
24:35Back with the results in a minute, next.
24:37I was going round cheating on my mum
24:39and that's the main reason why I kicked her up
24:41and I'll do it again.
24:43He's doing it again!
24:45Why have you moved out?
24:47It's too much. It was too soon anyway.
24:49It's just too much. He's paranoid.
24:51We need to build the trust up.
24:53If she fails, we're done.
24:55What if he fails?
24:57We're done.
24:59We're not done.
25:01LAUGHTER
25:03APPLAUSE
25:09APPLAUSE
25:11CHEERING
25:13Thank you so much indeed.
25:15Welcome back for another great old gang of them.
25:17Tony, Colleen, Kelly, Chris and Crystal.
25:19Chris, this is about you.
25:21For 19 years, this guy you say your father
25:23has not really played any role, Tony, in your life.
25:25In and out, threats,
25:27always blaming your mother, she's been consistent.
25:29Yeah, your brother saw red some years ago
25:31because he was so angry the way that you and your mother
25:33had been treated. That went to court,
25:35that you assaulted him, but that was thrown out.
25:37You dress the part,
25:39you sound the part, and yet
25:41when you scrape beneath the surface,
25:43it's all directed at Chris
25:45like he's some bitter, twisted old man.
25:47But I can't get past the fact that you could have done more.
25:49Why haven't you done more?
25:51Well, I've tried to do more.
25:53No, but you haven't, have you? You've paid not a penny.
25:55Put it in real terms, right?
25:57If I were you and that thug, don't take this the wrong way,
25:59this is how I'm saying you had attempted
26:01to apparently assault me and I'd gone to court
26:03and had it thrown out, right?
26:05I'd be thinking, did I make that up?
26:07If he'd been convicted, you could have got an injunction
26:09or whatever, but surely you can go
26:11and try and see your daughter through a contact.
26:13I just don't feel like you've
26:15done enough, mate. Everyone tries
26:17to make sure that you see your daughter.
26:19So your kid hasn't eaten or had food on the table
26:21or clothes on her back for 19 years
26:23and you just dismiss that, do you?
26:25No. Then how do you imagine that happened?
26:27You don't care, do you?
26:29I do care. That's why I'm here.
26:31No, you don't. No, you don't.
26:33Because I've done it all. You're a poor excuse for a man.
26:35I've got two jobs. Really?
26:37I've got my kids. Really?
26:39I've got an 18-year relationship.
26:4115 years marriage.
26:43I've stepped up to the plate. You tell my team
26:45you're only 60% sure she's your daughter.
26:47How do you think that sounds to Crystal? Do you want him to be your father?
26:49I know he is.
26:51I know that Tony is, of course, Crystal's biological father.
26:53APPLAUSE
26:55Hold on there. Hold on there.
26:57You're clapping.
26:59If you want anything from your kid,
27:01what's the first thing that should come out of your mouth?
27:03Sorry to her mother, really.
27:05That would be a start, wouldn't it? I'm sorry.
27:07You was a... Yeah, you was the...
27:09You was going round cheating on my mum
27:11and that's the main reason why I kicked your...
27:13And I'll do it again. All the big men...
27:15You're doing it again! You keep on treating my family
27:17like this, yeah? Yeah.
27:19What? What are you going to do?
27:21You told me to watch my back. You've just said it on telly.
27:23You've just said it on telly. There was text messages.
27:25There was text messages. You've made a threat on telly.
27:27You threatened me
27:29and I didn't even talk to you. It's all about you lot, right?
27:31Can you do me a favour? It's been a pleasure. You two, that way.
27:33You stay. You go that way. Come here.
27:35Go. Who? You, go.
27:37I don't want to hear your voice again. I quite like the fact that...
27:39Stand up. Get up.
27:41Sit here.
27:45If we can sort of distract ourselves from Chris
27:47and what did or did not happen.
27:4919 years of age.
27:51As a father myself,
27:53I wouldn't really be able to look in the mirror if I was you right now.
27:55Look at that kid. You haven't done anything for her.
27:57Stop making excuses
27:59if you want anything and start
28:01taking responsibility
28:03for your actions.
28:05Because you haven't. Talk to her.
28:09Christie, I've always
28:11loved you.
28:13I've always been proud of you.
28:15And the times that I have seen you,
28:17which have been very rare,
28:19but I have tried to do things
28:21for you and we've done things together.
28:23Is that why you got me second-hand stuff off of eBay?
28:25No, it wasn't second-hand stuff.
28:27Yes, it was. I watched you pay for it.
28:29I get where your mum's coming from.
28:31I get where your brother's coming from.
28:33All I would say, because I'm old and boring,
28:35you need to do this for yourself.
28:37You need to see it for yourself.
28:3920 minutes with him and Graham.
28:41Waste of space. Done it. Ticked off.
28:43If there's a common ground on your terms,
28:45you're 19 years of age.
28:47I'm talking about doing a show
28:49where people then come to me 10 years later
28:51and say, we should just have that moment.
28:53Even if it's just to tell him to do one in private
28:55or at least to hear him out and know there's nothing there.
28:57That's the best thing.
28:59Will you sit with him?
29:05She's turned out good.
29:07You're going to have about 20 minutes
29:09to stop making excuses and be honest.
29:11You go that way, you go that way, Crystal.
29:13Nice to meet you.
29:19Good afternoon. My next guest today, Maxwell,
29:21is here because he is certain that his girlfriend Kylie
29:23is up to no good. He says that he and Kylie
29:25had a whirlwind romance, but just after a few days
29:27she was living with him. Now, all seemed well
29:29until Kylie went out for a night and came back,
29:31he says, with a totally different attitude
29:33towards him. Probably tired.
29:35Maxwell believes this behaviour and the fact that she moved out
29:37so soon after that night out is evidence
29:39of a guilty conscience, and he says
29:41if she fails the lie detector, the relationship
29:43is over. However, if she passes,
29:45apparently he's going to take her to Tenerife.
29:47Maxwell's on the Jeremy Carr Show!
29:57You all right?
29:59How you doing?
30:03I'm good. How are you, Maxwell?
30:05I'm fantastic. Thank you for asking.
30:08You're not, though, you liar, are you?
30:10Because you wouldn't be on the Jeremy Carr Show.
30:12If it was fantastic, you'd be on the Lottery Show,
30:14having just won some money. Yeah, of course.
30:16A short-term relationship, but in your words,
30:18and I get this, the love of your life,
30:20but it's all gone a bit Pete Tong. Yeah, it has gone Pete Tong.
30:22How do you meet? At work.
30:24What do you do?
30:26I was at a factory, like a book factory,
30:28just packing books.
30:30How do you do?
30:32I quite like you.
30:34Packing books? Yeah.
30:36It's like love at first sight, really.
30:38Yeah, of course it was.
30:40Did you have sex on the first date?
30:42No, Jeremy. We waited.
30:44Second date? No, Jeremy.
30:46Third? No.
30:48I think we waited a week.
30:52Brilliant.
30:54The morality. I love the morality.
30:56You say everything was great,
30:58and to be honest, people talk about speed,
31:00but you moved in. She moved in straight away.
31:02Yeah, she did. And everything was great.
31:04And then she went on a night out
31:06and came back with a different attitude.
31:08It's just...
31:10Yeah, I know that.
31:12But when...
31:14How did her attitude change?
31:16It's just from the beginning.
31:18I think she's got an impression of me that's not true,
31:20and then obviously it's just balled up and balled up,
31:22and then we've just been...
31:24Do you think things move too quickly?
31:26Yeah, I think because she's moved in too fast,
31:28she's seen things about me that aren't actually true.
31:30Because obviously I've been single for quite a while,
31:32she's seen that single side of me,
31:34so she seems to get the impression that that's me,
31:36but it's not. What do you mean by that?
31:38Like, just doing things that...
31:40I go out with this and meet other people and...
31:42But you see, can I just say something? I know I'm getting old.
31:44Isn't that actually
31:46the way that a relationship works?
31:48Because too many people on this go,
31:50I'm with him 24-7, and I go,
31:52well, that's not damn healthy.
31:54You should actually be able to have balance, shouldn't you?
31:56But I mean, this is before I met Kylie.
31:58She's seen my single past.
32:00She's seen pictures, she's seen this.
32:02Well, not pictures, sorry, but people that...
32:06You had a healthy sexual appetite before that.
32:08Yeah, but not like a womaniser
32:10or anything, but just obviously
32:12men's got needs. Porn.
32:14Yeah, not boards. Porn.
32:16Whatever, yeah, what you said. Porn.
32:18No, not porn. No, why?
32:20Meeting people and casual sort of thing.
32:22Now it's all changed, she's moved out,
32:24you don't know what to think.
32:26Well, she moved in first before she moved out.
32:28LAUGHTER
32:30It's true. I was there.
32:32Do you love her?
32:34Oh, yeah, my God, yeah.
32:36Jesus.
32:38That's my heart. Why are we doing...
32:40I don't know.
32:42I just... What if she fails?
32:44Then she's a fool, isn't she?
32:46APPLAUSE
32:54Why, why, why... I'm cutting to that.
32:56Why are you doing a test?
32:58I don't know.
33:00Just to put things to rest that...
33:02What if she passes?
33:04Then she's a great girl.
33:06And you're going to Tenerife?
33:08I will make it up to her. So this could be nice?
33:10I think it will be, I think it will be.
33:12I really, genuinely like you.
33:14Thank you very much. Isn't he lovely?
33:16APPLAUSE
33:20And the thing is, even if she turns out
33:22to be a cheat and you have to dump her,
33:24there are millions of women going,
33:26-"Oh, he's all right, he's fair." -"Oh, thank God."
33:28And a cut is on the Jeremy Carr show that way.
33:30APPLAUSE
33:38What's going on?
33:40Oh, my God, I don't know.
33:42Your eyes met over a novel.
33:44Over a book.
33:46You waited a week before you had sex.
33:48Yes, we did.
33:50You moved in, everything was good,
33:52you went out for a night out...
33:54How dare I go out?
33:56It wasn't like that.
33:58Oh, probably tired.
34:00I was hung over.
34:02It wasn't just because of that.
34:04Because you're an insecure paranoid pain in the backside
34:06who thinks she spent the night with another man.
34:08Let's cut to the chase.
34:10You're a nice guy. Have you been cheated on before?
34:12No, the reason why I had doubts
34:14is because we argued so much before she went out.
34:16Because you didn't want her to go!
34:18Yeah, I did.
34:20Why did you argue?
34:22Why did you argue?
34:24When she came back?
34:26No, when she went out!
34:28Oh, I don't know, I'm confused.
34:30LAUGHTER
34:32He's brilliant, isn't he?
34:34Yeah, he's a good guy.
34:36Why have you moved out?
34:38It's too much. It was too soon anyway.
34:40It's just too much. He's paranoid.
34:42We need to build the trust up.
34:44He's messaging ex-girlfriends and stuff.
34:46Oh, my!
34:48I'll explain.
34:50I'm not doing it.
34:52The reason why...
34:54We sat down on the sofa.
34:56Who?
34:58Us.
35:00And she said to me,
35:02you're paranoid.
35:04I probably am.
35:06Do you love him?
35:08Yeah.
35:10That's the problem. I love him too much.
35:12I love her too much.
35:14You said that if she fails, we're done.
35:16What if he fails?
35:18Then we're done.
35:20What if he passes?
35:22Then we're not done.
35:24APPLAUSE
35:28How old are you?
35:3035.
35:32What do you do?
35:34Working factory at the moment.
35:36I'll tell you something, my friend,
35:38I think you're fantastic.
35:40Right, here we go.
35:42Right, Kylie.
35:44She loves you.
35:46What?
35:48She loves you.
35:50Listen, you just don't want to know how much.
35:52I know you get paranoid, so deal with it.
35:54How dare you?
35:56Maybe you're shy.
35:58She told the examiner that Maxwell had said
36:00that she slapped someone's bottom at a party when drunk.
36:02You were there?
36:04I know.
36:06The examiner explained that as this wasn't part of a sexual act,
36:08it would be considered a sexual contact,
36:10so it wouldn't be considered.
36:12Since the start of your relationship with Maxwell,
36:14have you passionately kissed anyone else?
36:16She said no, Kylie. Why did you say no?
36:18It's telling the truth.
36:20This says you're a liar, love.
36:22You love me, but I'm only reading these out.
36:24Since the start of your relationship with Maxwell,
36:26have you had sexual contact with anyone else?
36:28She said no, you were lying.
36:30This test says you failed every question.
36:32I'm just reading...
36:34It's not very often...
36:36It's not very often that I get confused.
36:38You just said something which is obviously private.
36:40Do you remember something that happened?
36:42At the beginning of the relationship, do you remember?
36:44Well, we weren't together, I was still living with...
36:46Cos I didn't tell him, that's what I think that says.
36:48No, I don't believe you. OK, that's fine, but...
36:50OK, it's fine. That's what I think it is.
36:52Since the start of your relationship... I hate being me.
36:54Since the start of your relationship with Kylie,
36:56have you passionately kissed anyone else?
36:58This says no, this says you were lying as well, so...
37:00You're joking!
37:02I don't want to... He's not lying.
37:04I get blamed for everything.
37:06Honestly, you failed every single question.
37:08No, no, I don't...
37:10I'm just... Mate, don't... Just come here.
37:12Get after her! I'm just...
37:14Why do I have to do...
37:20I feel sorry for me.
37:22You accept this is right, right?
37:24Do you know what?
37:26When me and Max first met, I was still living with my...
37:28And we wasn't actually a couple then,
37:30so that's what probably that is.
37:32I haven't...
37:34I swear to God.
37:36I don't know.
37:38I haven't done anything with nobody.
37:40That's it. It's done.
37:42Yeah, yeah, of course, but... Done, babe.
37:44OK, that's fine, but... What do you mean, it's done?
37:46It's done. There's no point us battling back and forth,
37:48cos now we're just going to be stuck in a loop.
37:50Oh, but you did this and you did that.
37:52I'm not prepared to live my life like that.
37:54From the outside, it's gone very quickly
37:56and there doesn't seem to be a lot of trust.
37:58And to be perfectly honest, if you want me to be straight,
38:00I'm gobsmacked by those. Yeah, I am.
38:02What?
38:04At least I own it.
38:06Yeah, yeah, but I haven't. Own your wrong.
38:08I haven't kissed anybody.
38:10Just own your wrong.
38:12To who?
38:14Yeah, I know, but who do I say...
38:16Just own it, Barry.
38:18But who do I say I've done it to?
38:20Just own it and I can get over it quicker.
38:22If you try and deny it...
38:24The thing is, that's crazy, is who do I say...
38:26You know about... That's fine.
38:28That's fine.
38:30But I don't know.
38:32I don't know who I've done it with that I haven't done it with.
38:34I can't just make someone up.
38:36Just own it. Own what?
38:38So you believe mine, yeah?
38:40Do you believe I've taken it? Yeah, yeah.
38:42Right, vice versa then, baby.
38:44OK, that's fine, but I can't literally say to someone
38:46that I've done something with someone...
38:48We've both just had, like, a cup of...
38:50Yeah, we have, yeah.
38:52APPLAUSE
38:54Well, I say we go sit in the after care
38:56and have a chat, don't you?
38:58I would only say this.
39:00You know, relationships have moments, don't they?
39:02Left, right and centre.
39:04Yeah, that's right.
39:06But this is, by anybody's standards, a bit of a struggle.
39:08It's been very quick.
39:10But, Maxwell, I can only read out, right?
39:12Yeah, yeah, I get that.
39:14We stand by the test as much as we stand by yours.
39:16You were very honest straight away.
39:18I knew that. I knew I should have sat to the examiner.
39:20Nice to meet you.
39:22And, yeah, you're great, though.
39:24I don't think you're brilliant.
39:26Sorry, mate. No, no, it's fine. It's no problem.
39:28No, I am.
39:30It's not a joke.
39:32Um, thanks. Sorry about that.
39:34Sorry, we come here for that and that's what you get for us.
39:36Yeah, that's it, yeah.
39:40This thong has gone over the back of the headboard.
39:46They're not buying this, are they?
39:48The thong went over the headboard.
39:50What's it doing behind the back of the bed is what I want to know.
39:52I wasn't there.
39:54It's the final straw.
39:56You've been told by many people.
39:58You carry on with the accusations.
40:00Over or go?
40:26It's 1-2-3-4-5-6.
40:28Calls cost 25 pence plus network access charge.
40:40Welcome back.
40:42You might just recognise my next guest from a previous encounter.
40:44Take a look at this.
40:46Matt and I used to be at it like rabbits five times a day.
40:48Love domination.
40:50Oh, yeah, definitely.
40:52Then it changes. When does it change? How does it change?
40:54About a year, year and a half into the relationship,
40:56it just went totally dead.
40:58Why?
41:00No sex life, nothing. It was just very, very distant.
41:02He said he makes me feel now unwanted, unloved and unattractive.
41:04Yeah.
41:06Constant, constant accusations.
41:08You know, I'm not allowed a mobile phone.
41:10I'm not allowed on social media.
41:12I go out to the local shop and I'm being accused of...
41:14..every single woman in Manchester.
41:16Why?
41:18We asked Matt, since the start of your relationship with Tracy,
41:20if you had sexual intercourse with anyone else.
41:22Tell the truth.
41:24The great British public are spot on. Of course he was telling the damn truth.
41:26APPLAUSE
41:32You were on the verge of walking, weren't you?
41:34I was inches away from walking out.
41:36Why? What changed, pal?
41:38Explain it in your words, because as I say,
41:40I wanted to do this because I think it's important to show people
41:42that relationship counselling,
41:44whether it's through this show or not, can work.
41:46It was the accusation after accusation
41:48as we've come on the show, you know,
41:50with the help of yourself
41:52and the aftercare team,
41:54we'd done the, um...
41:56..everything that we needed to do.
42:00I want to spend my life with you.
42:02It's the wrong end.
42:04LAUGHTER
42:06Will you marry me?
42:08Thought I'd point that out.
42:10Yeah.
42:12APPLAUSE
42:14CHEERING
42:18Now, that worries me slightly,
42:20because when we left Matt and Tracey,
42:22a wedding was very much on the cards,
42:24but, strangely, seeing as how they're coming back here,
42:26those plans are now in tatters.
42:28He's back on this show because he says yet again,
42:30from absolutely nowhere, this woman doesn't believe a word I say.
42:32He says, I love this woman so much, I will do one more,
42:34but apparently, in terms of lie detectors,
42:36he said, I sometimes feel I can't do enough.
42:38This centres around the fact that she went away
42:40for three days and came back
42:42and found some suspicious pink underwear.
42:44Ooh!
42:46A thong, ladies and gentlemen.
42:48A thing, a thong, a... Never mind.
42:50And it was somewhere, and she didn't know.
42:52Anyway, he says, I've had enough, it's like last time,
42:54I'm going to pass,
42:56but, you know, how much have I got to go through?
42:58Matt's on the Jeremy card show. Big round of applause.
43:00CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
43:08So, I know the way you walk towards me,
43:10you know what I'm going to say, because I'm paid to tell you the truth.
43:12Yep.
43:14Door, Matt, mate. How long's this going on for?
43:16I don't know. You said that last time.
43:18You're a decent guy. I did.
43:20If you tell him the truth again and you pass,
43:22she ain't going to change. No.
43:24Sometimes, and it sounds awful, and she'll go,
43:26don't be unfair, sometimes you just have to say,
43:28do you know what, you are paranoid, you've got issues,
43:30and until you deal with them, you ain't ever going to be
43:32in a relationship and happy. No.
43:34You were getting married! Well, it was under...
43:36What happened?
43:38It all related back in December again.
43:40Tell me about the pink thong.
43:42I've got a thing, when I...
43:44You've got a thing? No.
43:46You dress up in pink thongs?
43:48Only on a Wednesday. On a Wednesday?
43:50Yeah. I just throw my underwear on my side
43:52and I just throw dresses across,
43:54onto her side.
43:56This thong has gone over the back of the headboard.
44:00Look, they're not buying this now.
44:04The thong went over the headboard.
44:06What?
44:08And then she came home
44:10and she was cleaning up or doing whatever.
44:12And she found this...
44:14Whose thong is it? Tracey's.
44:16It's her own thong? Yes.
44:18Not somebody else's thong? No.
44:20On a serious note, mate, how long are you going to put up with this?
44:22Well, today is the final straw.
44:24I don't believe you. If she doesn't change now,
44:26she's been told by numerous people,
44:28you carry on accusing him,
44:30he's just going to walk.
44:32But you will, that's the reality, and I don't want to be harsh to her,
44:34I want to be honest.
44:36She's back, Tracey's on the Jeremy Carr Show.
44:48What do you want me to say, love? It's ridiculous.
44:50And I'm going to be really honest with you, I'm not doing this again.
44:52I tell the producers now publicly, I'm not doing it again.
44:54It's ridiculous. I understand that.
44:56But he's got to understand his reasons why I've done it.
44:58But there's always going to be reasons
45:00if you don't have it in your being
45:02to trust somebody.
45:04If you are... Have you been cheated on before?
45:06Yeah. Well, then there you are, it's not his fault.
45:08He will walk. And it doesn't matter what I say, right?
45:10I'm not having a go. It doesn't matter what the audience do.
45:12At some point, I'm telling you,
45:14he will wake up one morning
45:16and he will go, and you will then be responsible
45:18for having driven him away.
45:20And it will be at that point, I suspect,
45:22that your paranoia will cease.
45:24Because you will know you've lost something.
45:26And I'm just trying to say...
45:28I mean...
45:30It's yours, for God's sake!
45:32What's it doing behind the back of the bed is what I want to know.
45:34I wasn't there.
45:36I come home to find that.
45:40You came home to find a thong behind the bed.
45:42Your own thong in your own bedroom
45:44behind your own headboard.
45:46Not some 20-year-old...
45:48Yeah, that I didn't put there.
45:50I did not put there.
45:52I mean, I'd understand if it was some other woman's thong
45:54that you never knew and you didn't even...
45:56I don't know. I mean, I...
45:58If you're lying, I'm going to batter you verbally
46:00cos I'm going to look like an idiot.
46:02I get reports from...
46:04It's because they're all stirring
46:06cos they know you're insecure.
46:08Cos that's human nature, isn't it?
46:10When somebody's got a concern or a worry,
46:12let's just fuel the fire a little bit.
46:14Trace, you've got to be... Honestly, I...
46:18We've done counselling, we've done lie detectors.
46:20You ain't coming back, babe,
46:22so where do I go from here?
46:24Cos you'll lose him. Tell her.
46:26It's the final straw.
46:28You've been told by many people,
46:30you carry on with the accusations
46:32and I will go.
46:34If you fail... And then what are you left with?
46:36Nothing apart from my son.
46:38How much do you love him?
46:40A lot.
46:44I do.
46:46Which is why I'm here.
46:48What did you say?
46:50Which is why I'm here.
46:52Can't keep coming here, though.
46:54It's the right care place.
46:56Oi.
46:58He passed every single question.
47:04Again.
47:06Again.
47:08Again.
47:14Darling, listen to me.
47:16I don't...
47:18People...
47:20People get involved.
47:22You were cheated on before.
47:24You are going to lose.
47:26Do you know what the truth is?
47:28I'm truthful.
47:30I can't say go through the door and speak to Graeme
47:32or the team and you'll be cured of your paranoia
47:34because you won't be.
47:36Paranoia, in the end, somebody once said,
47:38when you lose something, that's when you wise up.
47:40He's a good man.
47:42And you know what you have to do?
47:44You have to put your foot down and go,
47:46I'm not going on that damn show,
47:48I'm not doing any more lie detectors,
47:50behind the bed, in your bed,
47:52behind your bed board, in your bedroom, in your house.
47:54I mean, the only person who doesn't think
47:56that doesn't sound twisted and weird is you.
47:58You know, if you come home
48:00and he was face down, it didn't sound right at all.
48:04If you came home and he was with somebody else,
48:06you know, romping, I get that.
48:08Trace, listen to me.
48:10I'd made for coming back.
48:12I know you had to do this, but listen.
48:14For my peace of mind.
48:16Yeah, but it's going to happen in two minutes.
48:18You're going to end up screwing this up.
48:20Trust me. Thank you, pal.
48:22Keep strong.
48:24Thanks for coming on. Give him a round of applause.
48:26Not again.
48:28Interesting one this morning.
48:30I am, for this morning, out of time.
48:32Don't forget, if you want to be on my show,
48:34you need my help. Visit my website.
48:36The details are on the screen.
48:38To my guests, to this audience and to you four at home,
48:40you know who you are. I'll see you soon.
48:42Take care. Bye-bye for now.
48:48This has been a production of WGBH.
48:50For more information, visit www.wgbh.org.
48:52This has been a production of WGBH.
48:54For more information, visit www.wgbh.org.
48:56This has been a production of WGBH.
48:58For more information, visit www.wgbh.org.
49:00This has been a production of WGBH.
49:02For more information, visit www.wgbh.org.
49:04This has been a production of WGBH.
49:06For more information, visit www.wgbh.org.
49:08This has been a production of WGBH.
49:10For more information, visit www.wgbh.org.
49:12This has been a production of WGBH.
49:14For more information, visit www.wgbh.org.