" Aaeni Tarmeem ke Liye Hukoomat Ke Paas Number Poray Hain Bhi. .. .? "
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00:00We are joined in the studio by Mr. Javed and Mr. Mohsin Baig.
00:05During the program, we will talk to Mr. Kamran Murtaza and Mr. Murtaza Wahab.
00:11Both of them are in the same meeting in Lahore.
00:13We will get the latest updates from them if we can talk to them.
00:16Let's start from here.
00:18Mr. Murtaza, you heard the conversation.
00:20It was a very smart move.
00:23A senior member of the Ruling Alliance told me that this gun was not to be used.
00:29When we sent Mr. Mohsin Naqvi and Mr. Azam Tawadar,
00:34we sent so many juniors.
00:36In the eyes of the politicians, they are juniors.
00:39Mr. Mulana actually felt insulted.
00:42Who sent me?
00:43It's the same thing, if the army chief wants to talk to someone,
00:46and he sends the captain,
00:47he will say that he has no weight.
00:49So, this start-off was wrong.
00:51He thought that if a heavyweight like Mr. Sanaullah, Mr. Khawaja Asif,
00:56or Mr. Ishaq Dar would go,
00:58then Mr. Zardari or Mr. Mian would talk to him.
01:01So, he said that the first brick hit was crooked.
01:03After that.
01:05Then, when this started,
01:08then you saw.
01:09Now, this is a solution.
01:11They also got their coat in the name of the bench.
01:14They are also getting it.
01:16They got their bench.
01:18They got their coat.
01:19Now, everyone is happy.
01:20Will it work?
01:21First of all, you have decided that
01:26whatever will be the final form,
01:31when it will be presented in the Senate and the National Assembly,
01:34then it will be easily accepted.
01:37First of all, you answer me,
01:40why are you so confident that the government has the complete numbers?
01:44No, no, these are their claims.
01:46I am confident about the formula.
01:48Because this formula has been decided yesterday.
01:50This has been decided till yesterday.
01:52And that is why it has been finalized.
01:53Now, they are showing the numbers.
01:55Mr. Shah, they are showing the numbers.
01:57What do I have to do with it?
01:58Now, you tell me one thing.
02:00If they have,
02:01suppose they don't have the numbers.
02:03Then it ends later.
02:05But suppose for a while,
02:08just for fun,
02:10that there are numbers.
02:12And this formula is done.
02:13Then what will happen?
02:14I think,
02:15Mr. Malik, who was my dear brother last time,
02:18we are not getting involved in any argument.
02:24Just a few days ago,
02:27you were called,
02:29it was decided that there are numbers and we are doing it.
02:32And in the end, it could not be done.
02:35And the biggest expression of not being able to do it,
02:37came from whom?
02:38The one who is doing it today.
02:40Right, Mr. Ranjit?
02:43By the way, he himself came to vote for Islamabad.
02:46No, but after that,
02:47he was the first one to leave.
02:49Yes, he also lost his hand.
02:50I don't know how many hands he lost.
02:52Now, the question is,
02:53will he lose his hand again?
02:55Number one.
02:57So, the first thing is that
02:59you are not getting involved in this argument,
03:02which I am accusing you of.
03:06That you have assumed
03:08that the government has the numbers.
03:10And that it will accept this constitutional amendment.
03:14Please allow me to say this.
03:17Now, I think that
03:21whether it is a constitutional bench
03:24or the Supreme Court,
03:29if there is a Chief Justice of the Supreme Court,
03:32then he will remain the Chief Justice.
03:36You can do whatever you want,
03:39if and but…
03:40But, Mr. Shah,
03:41if there is a constitutional amendment,
03:43then you have cut your legs from below,
03:45in one area.
03:46And that is for constitutional matters.
03:48Are they taking off 184 altogether?
03:52That it will not remain in the constitution?
03:54The constitutional matters will be out.
03:56If 184 will remain,
03:57then the constitutional matters will also remain.
03:59No, but this will also be decided.
04:00No, this is not clear.
04:01I want you to do this.
04:03Mr. Mohsin, you also include me in this.
04:06First, you explain one thing to me.
04:08He is not involved in making a graph.
04:10I have heard that he has been seen in 2-3 places.
04:13Yes, I have met one person.
04:15Okay, I just want to know
04:18that which person has the final authority to decide
04:23that this matter is a constitutional matter
04:26and this should go to the Supreme Court.
04:29Bench.
04:30Which bench?
04:31Constitutional bench.
04:32Who will head it?
04:33This will also be made by the Judicial Commission.
04:36One of the judges will be its head.
04:38This will be decided by the Judicial Commission.
04:40Neither the registrar will decide
04:41nor the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.
04:43The Judicial Commission will designate the bench.
04:46Judges will appoint it.
04:47Its head will be appointed in that.
04:49That is why I am saying that
04:50this court is being made within the court.
04:52There is a bench in saying.
04:54That is why I told you about Shakespeare.
04:56Call it by any other name,
04:57it smells as sweet.
04:59This is Rose, sir.
05:01You are not just calling it Rose.
05:03The formula is coming out for both of them.
05:05Mr. Malik, you are saying this
05:08as if this matter had to be decided
05:11by two parties.
05:14One is Bilawal Bhutto Zardari
05:16and the other is Maulana Fazlur Rehman.
05:18You are minusing those
05:20who made the food today.
05:22No, no, no.
05:23They had an input.
05:24They had an input with Bilawal too.
05:25Now the final touches are being made.
05:27In any case,
05:29we have the state
05:31and there are some concerns of the state.
05:33There will be some work from their side too.
05:35The interest of the state is there.
05:36Mr. Bilawal is also watching.
05:37Even Mr. Maulana is watching.
05:39Let me give you a small example.
05:41A JUI has given an amendment.
05:43Mr. Mohsin, I will come to you after that.
05:45They have given an amendment in Article 243
05:47in the name of Article 243.5
05:49to add the fifth point.
05:51Before there were four clauses in Article 243.
05:53Now there are five clauses.
05:55He said, if there is an appointment,
05:57reappointment,
05:59and removal as services chief,
06:01then it will be in accordance with the laws
06:03of the armed forces.
06:05He said, but once appointed,
06:07once it is appointed,
06:09reappointed,
06:11or extension in service,
06:13then those terms cannot be changed
06:15until
06:17a committee is formed
06:19of the House Equal Representation Treasury
06:21with their approval.
06:23There will be no discussion of the Prime Minister.
06:25You yourself have said
06:27that the amendment
06:29that is being added
06:31is intended to tease Mr. Mian.
06:33No, it is not intended to tease him.
06:35You have seen twice.
06:37In your tenure,
06:39once you tried to make Mr. Jahangir Karamat
06:41and the second time you tried to make him leave.
06:43This means that
06:45two big stakeholders,
06:47i.e. Bilawal Bhutto Zardari
06:49and Maulana Fazlur Rahman,
06:51they think that
06:53as long as Nawaz Sharif is there,
06:55he can surprise us
06:57at some point or the other.
06:59There is a history of this.
07:01There is only one history,
07:03which is related to one person
07:05and not to anyone else.
07:07Do you remember,
07:09when Imran Khan was there,
07:11there was an uproar at one time
07:13that General Faiz Gambler is coming
07:15and he wants to remove General Bajwa.
07:17The Prime Minister
07:19asked his lawyer
07:21if he can remove him before time.
07:23There was a lot of disturbance at that time.
07:25Before Mohsin Bhai says,
07:27I am sorry.
07:29Do you remember,
07:31on 11th June 1991,
07:33three months before the appointment
07:35of the new Army Chief,
07:37there was a notification
07:39that on 17th August,
07:41keeping this tradition in mind,
07:43six months before,
07:45he will be removed.
07:47I have quoted this because