Join CLNS Media's Taylor Kyles, John Zannis and Mike Kadlick as they count down to the NFL trade deadline at 4pm ET. The trio reacts to the moves around the league, within the Patriots organization and more!
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SportsTranscript
00:03What's going on?
00:06Yeah, Taylor was just getting into it and then it cut out.
00:12Sorry, we're late guys, but we are here and we are still 23 minutes ahead of the NFL trade
00:17line, which is at 4 PM Eastern time.
00:20John Zanis, Taylor, Kyle's Mike Cadillac and all this quiet on the Eastern front.
00:24At this point, the Patriots expected to do nothing.
00:28I would say based on everything that we've heard, but you never know at this point, we'll
00:32talk over kind of what we've heard to this point, whether or not there's any possibility,
00:37maybe some wishlist items for these guys on what they could or should do.
00:41But at this point, all we seem to know, guys, and just so you know, we're going to take
00:47you all the way through the deadline and then beyond.
00:50There's always some stuff that could trickle in after the fact.
00:53But at this point, as we said, all quiet.
00:56What we do know is from a report from earlier, whether all of these names are out there or
01:00not, it sounds like the Patriots are, quote unquote, open for business.
01:04I know Jeff Howe recently was the latest to jump on and kind of make that point as well,
01:08that they appear to be more open to selling guys rather than buying them.
01:13I don't understand this list much because this includes people who were signed to extensions
01:19this offseason by this by this management group with this regime.
01:27So this is odd.
01:28But the Osborne and Thornton, it's is anyone dumb enough to give us something for this
01:31before we cut them?
01:32Sure.
01:33Maybe that'll happen.
01:34So I'll kind of ask you guys out here right now.
01:36I think the biggest question and again, we're running out of time for this to matter or
01:40not matter is whether the Patriots should be buyers or sellers at the trade deadline.
01:44It may be moot in 21 minutes at this point.
01:47But guys, let's just get your take on what you were hoping to see the Patriots do, whether
01:51it was by yourself, Taylor.
01:53I think they got to be sellers like we were trying to come up with our list for trade
01:56candidates and you asked for five and I was like, that's too many.
02:00I literally cannot give you five people that they live a little now, especially because
02:04we've had all the moves already.
02:05We keep getting reports of all the people I know that I liked or was interested in.
02:08It sounds like aren't going to get moved.
02:11And the Patriots have plenty of players, plenty, but they have a few players on their team.
02:14I'm like last year where I really didn't think there were a ton of guys that had enough value
02:18to be moved or really should be moved.
02:20Now we're at a place where you got KJ Osborne and Taekwon Thornton who obviously are kind
02:24of like flashing lights.
02:25It's like buyer sale, please.
02:27We'll trade eighth round picks just like we got to get rid of these guys.
02:30And then we've even heard reports that at least KJ Osborne could be a cut candidate
02:34if he doesn't get traded.
02:35There are some guys that don't really make sense to me, like Jonathan Jones, Kendrick
02:39Bourne to a degree.
02:41If it happened in the right circumstance, it'd kind of be a game time decision sort
02:44of thing.
02:45Devon Godshaw is another one where it's in the Kendrick Bourne camp of, if it happened,
02:50I wouldn't be stunned, but I'd like to see what the return is.
02:53So they got some trade chips and if they get the right deal, sure.
02:57But I mean, Gerard Mayo said yesterday, the trade deadline is kind of a joke.
03:01They could stop baseball.
03:02Other teams have done it, but there's a reason that most of the players, teams are all going
03:06to contenders.
03:07So, you know.
03:08I get it.
03:09And that's how you see it.
03:10I would say, I think, and again, Mike, I'm curious your thought, but buying is not beyond
03:15like the norm.
03:16We saw the Bears do it last year with Montez Sweat and that's a player that they plan to
03:21use because they knew, hey, we're going to have a high draft pick next year and I want
03:25to start building a team.
03:26And again, you have multiple stations where you can do that.
03:29And the trade deadline prior to the end of the season, the year before, is a good way
03:34to start building next year's team.
03:36And it is opportunity because sometimes the cap really hamstrings a lot of teams that
03:40can't really do things.
03:43So the Patriots have not a contending team, but they do have some financial flexibility
03:48to maybe, you know, also be buyers here while looking ahead.
03:52So Mike, I'll kind of get your take on it too, and I'm going to throw the little wrinkle
03:55in.
03:56Does Drake May's recent play and how quickly he appears to already be kind of ready, accelerate
04:03the timetable because we're no longer in the, well, by year three, you want to be locked
04:07and loaded.
04:08You kind of want to build around the team now because you don't want to waste many of
04:12these freebie years when you have a quarterback who might be playing at a high level much
04:17sooner than anticipated.
04:18Yeah, no, I'm with you there and we'll get to that in a second, obviously.
04:22I think their big move here already happened with Josh Uche being traded.
04:26I think that's probably going to be it for them.
04:28I don't see anything, you know, in the next 18 minutes coming down.
04:32But I mean, the guys like Thornton and Osborne, that's sort of in the camp of, like you said,
04:38Taylor, please give us anything for them.
04:40Give us a conditional seventh in 2027 or whatever, right?
04:43It's like when you are that desperate to trade guys, I feel like a lot of teams will just
04:47wait it out until they're on the waiver wire.
04:49Now at that point too, it is, well, let's get ahead of it and let's try and beat someone
04:53out by trading them because we don't know where we are on or, you know, we're behind
04:57them on the waiver wire or vice versa.
04:59So it's difficult in that regard.
05:01But I do think those guys are probably going to wind up not being, you know, on the team
05:05much longer anyway, especially last week you had seven wide receivers healthy and those
05:09two were the scratches.
05:10Right.
05:11I mean, obviously you need some guys for depth pieces and you're going out with injuries
05:14and what have you.
05:15But KJ Osborne, he's been a pro.
05:17He just doesn't want to be here and I don't really blame him.
05:19You know, his role hasn't kind of come about into what it should be.
05:23As far as Drake May and the play of him, I do think the recent play should accelerate
05:27it just a little bit.
05:29I mean, don't go crazy, but you look at a perfect example and they're different circumstances,
05:35but they're also kind of the same.
05:36It's the commanders who go out and get Marshawn Lattimore today and they're seven and two
05:42and they're rolling and they have a rookie quarterback and they've built this thing up
05:45a little bit quicker than the Patriots have.
05:48But you have Drake May and so a little bit.
05:50Let's go get more.
05:51Of course.
05:52Yeah.
05:53A lot of it.
05:54The flip records two and seven, seven and two.
05:56Point being, I would try and build around Drake.
05:59I would go, you know, if the opportunity was out there to get a wide receiver, I don't
06:04hate it for the right price.
06:06I think it gives him a little, you know, somebody to work with and build up some extra rapport
06:10with.
06:11Maybe a, don't say Darius Slayton-Taylor, but maybe a T-Higgins, let's throw up Mike's
06:21list while he's sitting here talking, because again, this list is only going to be valid
06:24for another 17 minutes when they don't make a trade.
06:28Exactly.
06:29And it's not going to happen either.
06:30The T-Higgins thing.
06:31I don't see it happening.
06:32And I don't, I don't necessarily love it myself.
06:34I think it's a, a kind of wishlist, kind of not sure list, but if they're going to go
06:39get someone and they, and they like T-Higgins in the room, it makes sense for them to get
06:44him now and beat the, I guess the, the mad dash for him in free agency.
06:51Like if, if they have their eyes on them, I don't hate them trading for him now.
06:55Another one I would have loved, and it was a far cry as well, was DK Metcalf.
06:58That was already reported that he's off the table.
07:01And again, I don't, they're wishlist for reasons, right?
07:04I don't think it's necessarily in the realm of possibility, but you know, I would go get
07:09a top flight wide receiver if it made sense.
07:12Yeah.
07:13And again, a T-Higgins may not make sense for the Bengals necessarily to move because
07:17they're, you know, trying to contend this year as well.
07:21Well, and they finally kind of got things turned around after a shaky start, but yeah,
07:26I mean, someone to that effect, here's Taylor's list here and you like Slayton.
07:30Is that one of your guys?
07:31That's a guy you like?
07:32Yeah.
07:33I'm kidding.
07:34I'm kidding.
07:35No, I wasn't.
07:36I mean, I don't know.
07:37I don't know.
07:38You got a lot of stuff you got to cover over here.
07:39I don't know how much you've been listening to Taylor trying to pump up variously.
07:41I know every single word that comes out of your mouth.
07:44No, I, but yeah, I think Slayton, I think Slayton's in the perfect wheelhouse of the
07:48type of person you could potentially bring in.
07:50The other one I had mentioned before, and he did get traded was Mingo.
07:55If you could have gotten him low, the Cowboys being the Cowboys, once again, overpaying
07:58by about seven rounds for that trading a fourth rounder when that should have been another
08:04conditional fifth, sixth, but you know what though, I get it because he's only recently
08:09drafted as opposed to somebody who might be at the end of the deal and you do have years
08:12left to develop.
08:13So I understand a slightly higher price tag.
08:15I might've thrown a fifth that way if that was something that was available, but sure.
08:20But yeah.
08:21So here's your list.
08:22And again, positions of need for sure here with the Patriots.
08:24Yeah.
08:25And Darius Slayton, the reason like that, I do think he's in the wheelhouse is one,
08:29you have to think about players like very few players who want to contend to right now
08:32want to get traded to a losing team.
08:34Yes.
08:35Drake may is playing well.
08:36The players are pumping up his tires and you know, trying to make it well known that he's
08:39Josh Allen 2.0 and all that, but the players actually have to want to, Oh, they don't have
08:43to want to come to the team.
08:44So a lot of the time, these teams don't want to send a guy somewhere where he's just going
08:47to end up like losing.
08:48They want to kind of put him in a good situation, but Slayton is already on a losing team.
08:53He's pretty much stuck with Daniel Jones, a quarterback who does not fit his skillset.
08:57He could come to new England, be the type of skillset that the Patriots don't have that
09:01X where, you know, they can consistently win Jayvon Baker, hoping is that guy, but you
09:06know, you'd like to have some temp as well, not force your young guy to be the one making
09:09all those plays.
09:10Darius Slayton, get him in the building.
09:12See if he fits.
09:13And if he does, you can sign him to a probably very affordable extension.
09:16And he seemed like a guy that you could maybe have her a fifth or sixth, but now reports
09:20also with disease, uh, are surfacing that the giants aren't probably going to trade
09:24them.
09:25I know that we're talking about maybe like a high four or a late fourth or an early fifth
09:30or something like that.
09:31So the Patriots, it would either be some kind of pick swap with the fourth rounders or a
09:35fifth, but probably not going to move him.
09:37I liked those.
09:38You'll already though is an every down capable player and pretty Jennings has stepped into
09:41that role, but Keon White's been a little bit inconsistent.
09:44He also lines up inside.
09:45So I would have liked more depth on the edge and then Brendan Sheriff.
09:48This is one where I was kind of grasping at straws, to be honest.
09:50He's an older player.
09:51I don't think he'd want to come to the Patriots.
09:53I'm just wondering if the Patriots are so desperate to fill that left guard spot and
09:57maybe they would make the move, but Cole strange is supposed to be coming back.
10:00So you never know.
10:01But yeah, I, I really did do my best because there weren't a lot of people that made sense
10:05where maybe the other teams would want to trade them and also the Patriots would want
10:09to take them on because as we've seen, a lot of the players that have been moved today
10:12were on the older side.
10:13And I don't think that's where the Patriots really need to be bringing in talent, a little
10:16bit of a little bit of Patriots news, not a trade or anything.
10:19So let's not go crazy.
10:20But you're seeing an Anderson reporting that it takes two sides to make a deal.
10:25And the Patriots are not going to give away players like Christian Gonzalez, Keon White,
10:30Devon Godshaw or Kyle Duggar, who teams have been asking for.
10:33So obviously they weren't getting rid of Gonzo and Keon, but she does add that Godshaw and
10:37Kyle Duggar are off the table.
10:39No, hold on that list though.
10:41No.
10:42Sure.
10:43Oh, well, I mean, or John Jones, which is notable.
10:45Yeah.
10:46I mean, it's, this is, I think some people, I think a lot of people might confuse football
10:51with other sports when it comes to like asset management and trading and this and that the
10:56idea that like, well, you're out of contention to sell off your parts and then just rebuild
11:00for next year.
11:01Like you need a lot of football players on a team, you know, like you can't give away
11:06quality for nothing.
11:08Day three picks are exactly that.
11:10They're nothing there.
11:11They are.
11:12The hit rate on day three picks is very low.
11:14Typically.
11:15I mean, the lower you get past the fourth round, it's a coin flip, whether they even
11:18make it out of the training, make it out, you know, onto the roster, out of training
11:21camp.
11:22So the value is small beyond being able to maybe package them together to manipulate
11:27the board and move up a little bit, you know, into maybe get yourself up a few picks, 15,
11:3220 picks or up around.
11:34If you're able to do that, they're sweetener to a deal.
11:37They alone do not have a lot of standalone value.
11:38So the idea that you're going to trade, you know, these players, unless you're in a full
11:43scale teardown and you want to strip it to the bone and not have a dollar anymore, look,
11:48that makes sense.
11:49If, if Wolf came in and inherited a bunch of Belichick contracts and this is like, this
11:53is my chance, but he signed these guys.
11:56It's I've always found it ludicrous.
11:57The Gonzalez stuff might've been the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
12:00Like, Hey, can we have the only player you have worth having outside of your friend,
12:04a brand new quarterback who started that?
12:07Like, I mean, that, that conversation is asinine, asinine.
12:12You wait all day.
12:13What are you going to do?
12:14Hopefully draft another Christian Gonzalez with what you get back.
12:17Like you already got them.
12:19Like it's ridiculous at this point.
12:20So that's one of those stories that spirals out of a team calls the Patriots.
12:24Hey, are you open to trading Christian Gonzalez?
12:26How much of your shit are you willing to give up?
12:29Yeah.
12:30Yeah.
12:31He laughs, hangs up the phone.
12:33Oh, the Patriots, you know, could trade Christian Gonzalez, like ludicrous nonsense.
12:38Why are we even talking about it?
12:40But when it gets brought up like that, then you have to react to it.
12:42But yeah, that was never going to happen.
12:43It's him.
12:44It's Drake May.
12:45Those are the two big building blocks on both sides of the football.
12:48You're not trading either though.
12:49Yeah.
12:50Yeah.
12:51So that didn't make much sense, but I do still think like, and so this is kind of where
12:54it gets complicated, not complicated, but this is where a normal dynamic changes.
13:00You mentioned the commanders and I think that that's a really good example here.
13:05You can't be a Patriots fan sitting at home thinking to yourself like, what the F man?
13:11They were technically like a tick worse than we were last year.
13:14I know they were a little bit more aggressive in free agency, but really they went out there
13:17and just kind of plugged some holes, lost some players, brought in some players, but
13:21it wasn't like this seismic shift in their roster.
13:24They got a coaching staff.
13:26They got management.
13:27They got a coordinator who can, you know, who has, who's kind of a, you know, young
13:31innovator.
13:32They drafted a quarterback who appears that they can play just like you did and you're
13:37miles apart from where they are, which is always kind of, that's the weirdest thing
13:42about being a Patriots fan right now is Drake May is supposed to come in and make you feel
13:46better about things.
13:47And in fact, Drake May has actually, because he's looked so good, made you feel worse about
13:52the rest of it, which is how did we hit that one thing that we weren't sure whether we
13:56did or didn't, you know, did right.
13:58And then watch everything, watch the team almost go backwards.
14:02And that's what stinks.
14:03So it like, I don't know whether you're admitting it to yourself right now, but again, after
14:08a short ramp, you know, short grading period, the off season was underwhelming, maybe not
14:13entirely Wolf's fault.
14:15And the draft right now is a little bit concerning beyond Drake May.
14:18So recognizing that and a little bit of introspection and self-reflection might lead one to say,
14:23I got to kind of make up for some of that right now.
14:25I should do something.
14:27So I would think at least the mindset would be to be aggressive rather than just say,
14:31nope, we're going to sit here, we're going to wait and we're going to do it all over
14:34again.
14:35Like, I don't know how you feel super confident as a Patriots fan after off season one that
14:40just doing it, a bunch of money and good draft picks, let's go and doing it again in year
14:44two, if that's going to get you where you want to go.
14:46So again, it's easier to evaluate established players than it is, than it is overpay in
14:54free agency when you're bidding like crazy against a bunch of others and the draft, which
14:58is a total crapshoot.
14:59This is oftentimes where you can see like, this is a good football player.
15:03I'm going to go get them.
15:04If it's there.
15:05I think you have to be a little bit more aggressive than, than it seems like they're being right
15:09now.
15:10Yeah.
15:11But then at the end of the day, it's the same dilemma.
15:12We had this off season.
15:13I feel like there's some revisionist history that's going on because it's like, Oh, why
15:16didn't the Patriots get more guys?
15:18And it's like, it's been the same problem.
15:19People don't want to come here.
15:22That's kind of just what it is.
15:23And again, on the trade that side of it, that, you know, a lot of the time, like I
15:25said, teams want to do right by guys.
15:27They could send the guy here, but I mean, I just, I don't really think it's the same
15:33situation as with Washington.
15:34First of all, Washington, a lot of their guys were like truly just complimentary pieces.
15:38Like they weren't like going out, spending all this money on these great, Austin Eckler,
15:43who's at the end of it all already had one against you or anything like commanders had
15:50Terry McLaurin.
15:51And they had like good players on the roster.
15:53They were just not much beyond that.
15:57Not much beyond McLaurin in terms of what I also think the fact one, an experienced
16:02staff, I think the Patriots and the commanders kind of went in different directions where
16:05a lot of what the commanders, it was bringing guys who were established in the roles.
16:09Like Clint Cairnsbury has been a guy who's run several offenses in the NFL.
16:12Dan Quinn has run defenses in the NFL.
16:15They brought in more free agents, whereas the Patriots were saying, Hey, we're going
16:18to try to draft and develop our guys.
16:20And going into it, I didn't really have that much problem with it, but then you have guys
16:23like city.
16:24So it was kind of disappointing.
16:25You had the injury since a lot of those core pieces either aren't playing the way you expected
16:30or they're just not able to play at all.
16:32Although Christian Barmore, hopefully on the men, that would be immense, I think for this
16:36defensive front.
16:37But yeah, just to the point of like the commanders and the Patriots to your, and then even Jaden
16:41Daniels has way more experience than even a Drake may.
16:44So it's really comparing apples and oranges, but I do at the same time think it's an interesting
16:49conversation.
16:50It's apples and different types of apples.
16:51I don't think it's that far off.
16:53The Washington was a very bad team last year.
16:55And again, they did not have, as you said, they didn't have a monster free agency either.
16:59And they drafted a quarterback who was maybe further along, or maybe honestly the only
17:02difference between Jane Daniels and Drake may is that he started week one and, and he
17:06looks further along because of that.
17:08So again, I'm not going back to that full conversations.
17:11All I'm saying is they got a guy and it looks like you got a guy and all things being equal,
17:16it shouldn't be that big of a disagreement.
17:17One team's seven and two and the other's two and seven.
17:20The gulf shouldn't be that big.
17:21That's that's the thing is it's so glaring at this point that Washington light, uh, entire
17:27roster you could have set on fire last year.
17:29So that's a little bit disconcerting, but Mike, I'll, I'll kind of, you know, bounce
17:33it off of you here.
17:34It's, you know, something's got to give, right.
17:36And again, you know, again, we're, we're, we're filibustering here until the trade deadline,
17:40at which point we were fairly confident the Patriots won't do anything and then we'll
17:43assess it after the fact.
17:44But assuming they don't and assuming they don't get aggressive here, you know, something
17:48is probably going to have to change.
17:50And we did just see, um, you know, the Raiders and kind of like the step one playbook of
17:54what happens when things aren't necessarily going well behind the scenes is, well, you
17:59take the side of the ball that's playing the worst and you fire that whole staff, you know?
18:03Uh, and that's what happened over there.
18:05I'm not going to sit here and be like, this is the fire Alex van Peltz show, but like,
18:09I don't know that you can patiently wait for things and just hope that the pieces fall
18:12in place.
18:13And it feels like something's got to kind of give here at some point or another, maybe
18:17it's not until the end of the year, but again, back to the whole, you got to support Drake
18:21may now that you actually got a good idea that like, oh shit, it's go time.
18:26And you have to, you have to do it with some urgency.
18:28So, and so the way, uh, I keep wanting to call them Oakland, the way Vegas did it where,
18:33you know, it was, all right, this isn't working for a decade, but, uh, you know, get, get
18:39rid of Getsy and then bring in Norv Turner off, off, out of retirement, right?
18:43Like they're not going to go, oh, let's, let's call up Mike Shanahan, right.
18:47And see if he wants to come and run this West coast offense the way that we want to run
18:50it.
18:51Like something that egregious isn't going to happen.
18:53I also don't think, I also don't think that they're going to fire Alex van Peltz mid season.
19:01Now I know those who are listening to the podcast, don't see it.
19:05We're laughing at a comment on screen as I try and go on this offensive coordinator
19:09rant, but no, long story short, they're not gonna, um, they're not going to fire van Peltz
19:13mid season.
19:14I don't think, I don't think it's going to get that bad, but you do have, you know, people
19:18in house, uh, or one person in house who, who keeps kind of creeping in the back of
19:23my mind that does have experience calling plays and that's Ben McAdoo.
19:28And I don't know if they'll necessarily turn the play calling over to McAdoo, but I do
19:32wonder if they may be behind closed doors, whether they announce it, whether we hear
19:36it or not, start to lean on him more and start to lean on his ability as a play caller.
19:41And as someone who is a sort of an offensive guru in this, in this type of system, uh,
19:46to get more involved because, uh, I spoke to Joe Milton a couple of weeks ago or last
19:50week rather about the, uh, the backup quarterback situation.
19:53And he had mentioned McAdoo being sort of a guy who stands back with him and walks him
19:57through the offense as may and Brissette go through it.
20:00And then, uh, Drake may was asked the other day about his footwork and he said that McAdoo
20:05is involved in that as well.
20:06And so he's someone who's kind of around and I wonder if they maybe lean on another in-house
20:11guy, um, to, to, to help out with the offensive a little bit.
20:14And I, I, again, I don't think they're going to go crazy like the Raiders did, but maybe
20:17something like that, uh, comes down the stretch of the offense, keeps kind of running and
20:21running into the wall like this before you jump in, because this is my best time to do
20:28it.
20:29All right.
20:30Two minutes left on the deadline.
20:31Two minutes, uh, is all we've got.
20:32And real quick, I'm going to sneak in promotional message here.
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22:33Let's go back guys.
22:34It is ding, ding, ding, ding.
22:36The NFL trade deadline has officially passed, or at least it's here.
22:41That doesn't mean anything that has happened in the last few minutes.
22:46Can't trickle through and we'll hang on for a bit and see if any news does.
22:49But at this point it appears, uh, nothing doing Taylor before we jumped into those sponsor
22:54uh, reads.
22:55You did have something on your mind.
22:56So I want to circle back to what that was.
22:57I'm just curious with Alex then Pelt, what exactly people would like him to do better
23:02as a play caller.
23:03I'm not saying he's perfect.
23:05Like I've kind of been saying that I think his main job this year was like developing
23:09Drake May and also just someone who has been a banded offensive coordinator before on a
23:13team that not a lot of people wanted to come to.
23:16Like they tried to throw a bag at Nick Kaley.
23:18He didn't want to take it.
23:19So like one, I think expectation management, like I feel like we need to remind people
23:24after these losses, like, yes, but what did you think was going to happen?
23:27One thing that's disappointed me for sure is like, he's not as creative as I was hoping
23:31is like when he was under Stefanski, I don't think there's as much window dressing to disguise
23:35some of his concepts for sure, but that's more, it's like a play designer.
23:39I'm wondering as a play caller, what people want him to do because I know it's like, oh,
23:42they keep running the ball.
23:44They're obsessed with running.
23:45I looked up the stats, they're like bottom 10 and running outside of first quarter.
23:50They don't run, but they don't run very often on first down when you, uh, in general, even
23:53Pat, even including the first quarter.
23:55So I feel like that's what people were upset about last week.
23:58They kind of throw more.
23:59It was the first game.
24:00Actually they threw on most RPOs.
24:02So like there's like little signs of growth.
24:05Maybe they're not happening as quickly as some people want.
24:07And I get that frustration.
24:09I would just like to know what people would like him to do better specifically as a play
24:12caller.
24:13I want to, I want Mike's take on it because he's in the weeds a lot more on this stuff
24:17and he might be able to actually give some details.
24:19I just, I speaking for, I think the general fan and how some people view this stuff is,
24:25I think most of us understand like, you know, they know what they're doing.
24:31They're professionals.
24:32It's hard to question specifically what the problem is, but it's the same thing where
24:36like you've got your car, you take it into the shop, it's feeling funky, you leave and
24:40it's still kind of making that noise.
24:42You don't know how to fix it.
24:43Like you're just done.
24:45You just know that the car's not driving great still, you know?
24:47And like, that's the general frustrating part.
24:49That's what I hate about the past two seasons.
24:51It's like, yeah, there's so many things wrong, but it's like, like some of them are glaring
24:55and some of it's like, I don't think I'm not buying the seat and it's like, Oh, that's
24:59why like last year, Oh, the coaching staff was having a mutiny literally and like people
25:04actually weren't getting along.
25:05So yeah, that would have made a lot more sense during the year if we had known that.
25:08So you know, that, that, that's part of it.
25:11But that's the thing is like, I mean, in Taylor, as far as like media or analysts or people
25:14who are talking about this stuff, you're a PhD in this and you're still scratching your
25:18head to kind of like more, you know, just general analysts and common fans who are watching
25:22it.
25:23It just, it's, it's that thing that stands out, lack of creativity, possibly not necessarily
25:27building around the strengths of your team, putting people in the best position to succeed.
25:31It's not like we know or people know what exactly they should be doing, but it seems
25:35like it's just not happening.
25:37And you do feel that if it were a different person at the helm, and again, you take like
25:42Kingsbury with, with Washington right now, it feels like they're doing things better
25:47and different there.
25:48But who knows?
25:49He could have been here and it could have been a total friggin dud.
25:51And maybe it's a personnel issue only.
25:53But it gets to a point where it's like, I feel like we could squeeze a little more out
25:57of this right now.
25:58And I don't know if he's maximizing it, but I don't think people have the specifics.
26:02I think that's, that's a good way to look at it.
26:04Because again, oh wait, there was a deadline, not a Patriots, but there was a last second
26:07deadline deal that Rappaport just tweeted.
26:10So the Texans traded, oh good backup defensive tackle Khalil Davis to the 49ers.
26:15So yeah, big, big one there.
26:18But no, I think again, I obviously, if Taylor doesn't have all the answers here, I don't
26:23have all the answers here either.
26:24Now I will say there's been a couple of times with Van Pelt where it's like, why are we
26:29running X amount of times in a row?
26:30And I mean, we're going to talk about it on Pat's daily, which is coming up right after
26:34this at around 430, where there were some play calling questions on Sunday with Van Pelt
26:38against Tennessee.
26:39And we'll, we'll dive into that a little bit deeper.
26:41There was a couple of times at the end of halves earlier this season where they were
26:45just kind of running out the clock and they should have thrown or the opposite rather
26:49to where Van Pelt's throwing, throwing, throwing, and me and Taylor are ripping our hair out
26:52saying just get yourself to the damn half.
26:54So like there's things like that, but then too, I like the way you said that, John, where
26:59it's like, I don't know what's wrong, but maybe something has to change just for the
27:03sake of changing.
27:04And I don't know how much I like doing things impulsively like that.
27:07I don't think it's for the sake of changing.
27:09I think it's that we can't, we can't diagnose it, but if the people behind the scenes can,
27:14then it's better to figure it's better to do it now than to not.
27:17And if it's a personnel issue, get the, get, try to find some more personnel.
27:23If it's not, it's not the unsexy answer, Mike is probably, they know it's, it might be the
27:28coaching, but they'll assess it at the end of the year.
27:30They don't stand to benefit doing anything mid season at this point, because it wasn't
27:33supposed to be a contending year.
27:35Or number two is they're going to be patient for the sake of patience and recognizing that
27:40they don't want to be impulsive for that very reason.
27:42I understand not doing the rash thing.
27:45I'm just saying, as long as you can identify that it's an issue and then do something to
27:50fix it to the best of your ability, that's fine.
27:52You definitely don't want to, you don't want status quo.
27:55There was something, just a quick, you can go out, Taylor, it's a quick, just a aside
28:01on this.
28:02Like there was a comment when the saints got rid of Dennis Allen yesterday, it was from
28:05Mickey Loomis, their GM or Loomis is the owner GM.
28:07I forget who it is.
28:08But one of them was like, Dennis is a great coach.
28:11These guys want to play for him and he knows what he's doing.
28:13And then I'm like, so then if you think all that, then why are you firing them?
28:17It was almost like, we think all of this, but we don't know what's wrong.
28:21So something has to change.
28:22And Dennis Allen is the scapegoat and that's why we're firing him.
28:24And it just felt like a strange answer and a strange statement after you just can the
28:28guy I'm in season.
28:29But I feel like that's kind of what people want with Alex Van Pelt where it's like, something's
28:33got to change.
28:34He's the one calling the plays.
28:35The offense is a good, so let's just blame him for everything where Taylor mentioned
28:38it before.
28:39And I tend to agree that the combination of him and TC McCartney have done a pretty good
28:43job developing Drake may and kind of making him a relatively seamless fit into this offense.
28:48But there also may need to, you know, something may need to change with the guys actually
28:52calling and designing these plays, but Taylor, go ahead.
28:56Just when it comes to like the situational stuff, like the end of haves, which really
29:00I think is the biggest thing, like you could argue the two point conversion, but Mayo said,
29:04yeah, we tried to go for two earlier this year and it didn't work.
29:06We got crapped on.
29:07So it's like, what do you want us to do?
29:09Those kinds of things, especially when it comes down to like, and I agree, like this
29:14game, I was frustrated when I'm like, why are you going heavy and running on third and
29:18one when you can't get movement?
29:20Like that pissed me off for sure.
29:21The one that we talked about a few weeks ago where they tried to pass the ball and it's
29:25just like, you can't do anything.
29:26Why are you trying to press?
29:28Like that's where I'm like, for sure.
29:30Understand the flow of the game, but that's also on Mayo.
29:32That's not even like an exclusively Van Pelt Van Pelt thing because Mayo's acknowledged
29:36we have those conversations.
29:38It's not an only Van Pelt decision.
29:40And I think in those critical moments, especially because Alex Van Pelt is an inexperienced
29:44play caller, I would think that yeah, Mayo probably is the one who has the final say
29:48in those situations.
29:49And then I like comments like this, where I like, I don't want to crap on anybody, but
29:54I mean, you're saying, oh, they can't execute a double team.
29:57Every run concept has a double team.
29:59It's not just dual.
30:00Dual is one of the easier ones and they can't even execute that.
30:02And that's really my bigger point is I feel like we want to throw things on the coaches
30:06and I understand that.
30:07Like they have to be better if your offense or defense are doing poorly, the coaches have
30:10responsibility.
30:11But I tweeted it out last night, half of their starters are 25 or younger.
30:15None of those players have a 17 games of starting experience and the O-line is a complete mess.
30:21And we knew, we know it's a mess because like Michael Jordan seems like he's regressing
30:24unfortunately.
30:25Ben Brown, the cracks are starting to show more and more with him.
30:28And then the right side, they try Leighton Robinson.
30:30We'll get into that in the show.
30:31I thought that was a highly questionable decision, but then he kind of gets whooped.
30:35You don't have Caden Wallace, City, so is disappointing.
30:37It's kind of like, I understand you're saying don't run the ball.
30:40You want Drake May to drop back 53 times again, like you, that's not sustainable either.
30:45And then he's taking hits and it's, oh, you got to protect him.
30:48Oh, look, Drake May hit his head again.
30:49Well, yeah, he's a quarterback.
30:51He's going to get hit at some point.
30:52And if you drop it 50 times, the odds are going to spike that you end up getting hurt
30:56or something ugly happens where fans go.
30:58So I just, I like for there to be like a full picture where yes, the coaches need to do
31:02better, but they're inexperienced, which maybe I think is the biggest thing that I underestimated
31:07was I was hoping maybe like things would, I guess not fall into place necessarily, but
31:11like how there's two coaches, at least to a position, how hopefully maybe that would
31:15make up for some of the lack of experience where guys could take on certain roles.
31:19I maybe overestimated that, but you got young players, a young staff and a ton of injuries.
31:24I feel like we overthink it.
31:25Like the reality sucks.
31:27And sometimes the answer is just like, yeah, it's a, it's really crappy spot that they're
31:30in right now, but I feel like that's a bigger problem.
31:32So Alex Van Pelt can't call a game, but that's the thing is like, I guess this is what people
31:37are struggling with.
31:38The most right is, is the NFL is designed very heavily.
31:44So to not have a team languish near the bottom for very long, it's basically like a socialist
31:50Republic.
31:51Like they want to lift you back up.
31:55And that's kind of the point is you're given every opportunity to, to do that a week or
31:58schedule and you hire draft picks.
32:01And obviously, you know, many of these teams have, you know, more money to spend so you
32:06can reload quickly and, and it is what it is.
32:09And so not doing it or not being able to show improvement year over year, I think shows
32:15either you were way worse off than you realized, or you're, you're, you're messing it up.
32:22So that's what freaks people out a little bit is you're supposed to, you see teams go
32:30basement to playoffs, you know, or at least jumping a few wins here again, having to address
32:36it by bringing in a rookie signal caller makes it harder.
32:39It's easier if you've got the quarterback and can surround them with talent.
32:43So it is a larger battle because you have to acclimate that person to the most difficult
32:47position to play in all of sports and then get everything going there.
32:51But I think that's kind of where it comes down to here.
32:53So, you know, no trades here.
32:55You're assuming you're going to see guys being let go at this point.
33:00You think, you think that's the end for guys like Osborne and potentially Thornton?
33:04Maybe not Thornton, just because he's still like on, he's still got a couple of years
33:08left on his deal.
33:09Even if it doesn't work out, you have a body, he's going to just keep being healthy scratch,
33:12but KJ Osborne as a veteran, like, yeah, I think maybe they'll want to do right by him
33:16and send him somewhere where he's going to be able to play.
33:18weeks in a row, barring some, you know, change that we don't know about, it wouldn't make
33:22a whole lot of sense for him to remain on the roster past, you know, today or tomorrow.
33:26I think so too.
33:27I think they'll probably end up, you know, parting ways with Osborne.
33:29And we talked about it on the show the other day, like, yeah, he had the Instagram post
33:33and the, you know, I was supposed to be a healthy scratch on Wednesday and I had to
33:36come in and, you know, that was a, I guess a blip on the radar for him as far as unprofessionalism.
33:41Like besides that, he has been a consummate pro here, I will say.
33:45He was a guy who like, they had a practice squad receiver come in the other day.
33:49And as somebody who is on the brink of being a healthy scratch and not happy in the building,
33:55he could easily sit there, shut up and keep his mouth shut.
33:57But Osborne, like I watched those two walk out of the locker room and he brought that
34:01guy along and introduced himself and kind of trying to ingrain, like ingrain the young,
34:06I forget his name.
34:07I think they already released him.
34:08Sanders or something.
34:09One of those practice squad guys.
34:10And I see him and Osborne walk out of the locker room together.
34:13I'm like, oh, that's a pro's pro right there.
34:15And then the other day when he was a healthy scratch on the sideline with pop Douglas,
34:19when he makes a big gain, he's dancing with him on the sideline that if KJ Osborne was
34:24a, not a professional, he would probably have been standing in there or sitting on the bench
34:27with a hoodie on and just sitting down, shutting up and not doing his thing.
34:30But he's a good pro and I think they will end up doing right by him and releasing him.
34:35And I agree on Thornton.
34:36He's a warm body.
34:37A couple of years left.
34:38He can still be a, uh, as Drake may says, uh, Drake may doesn't say a decoy, but for
34:42the love of the game route guy, if he's even in the game, yeah, try and take the top off
34:47the defense and maybe make it hit him in the hands again.
34:49And next time he can catch it.
34:50So I don't know if they'll, yeah, I don't know if they'll cut Thornton, but I do think
34:54Osborne has probably played his last game.
34:57Osborne is almost like more being euthanized than being released.
35:00You know, it's just like, put him out of his misery.
35:02You know, like he's just, he's, it's a mercy killing.
35:05Just you, you can go, go, go find, go, go be at peace.
35:09Go find something else here.
35:10You know, like it's, it's certainly not, I do think the, that one post might've been
35:15a little overblown because he's not that guy.
35:18Right.
35:19And it was also, while all these other things were happening in the wide receiver room,
35:22it was just like, well, this is supposed to be the leader.
35:24And it was just like, Oh no, that was just like the cherry on top of the shit storm.
35:29That was that weird, like three, three or four weeks span.
35:32Well, and that's the thing is again, this isn't necessarily, this wasn't necessarily
35:35designed to be a, you know, what's wrong with the Patriots sort of show.
35:39But again, anytime you have an opportunity to make things a little bit better than they
35:42were early five minutes ago that all of this stuff is going to come into play.
35:48So I know, you know, talking about the receivers in particular, you know, not having KJ was
35:53supposed to be that adult in the room, but things still got out of hand.
35:56It's a difficult thing to ask somebody who's coming in here, you know, new ish.
36:00And he's not like, he's like a 10 year veteran you know, born being on a pup to start the
36:05year wasn't able to do it as well.
36:06But you also have very inexperienced coaches behind the scenes here trying to tie this
36:10group together.
36:11So again, I can understand what the Patriots perspective would be that, yeah, we might
36:16need to bring in some more adults behind the scenes to help coach up some guys.
36:20And maybe that alone can help things here.
36:24My guess is that's a little bit of the philosophy and it's not necessarily to say like guys
36:28got to get whacked, but you just might need more support here to, to, to, to coach guys
36:33up a bit.
36:34And if Drake may shows promise, like that's when you have the off season where you bring
36:38in the experience and it's because people want to play with them now, maybe, you know,
36:42like players, coaches, it's like, oh, I can join an offense where I can work with Drake
36:46may.
36:47They've got this money.
36:48They sign X, Y, Z.
36:49Like now they're in that situation last year when Mack Jones and Bailey's happy where the
36:53quarterbacks on your roster, like, yeah, that wasn't inspiring a lot of confidence.
36:56People didn't want to come here and it's not even speculation.
36:59These are reports.
37:00So a hundred percent like this off season, I think is the one where you start to make
37:03those big changes and take that step forward just because, you know, unlike the Texans,
37:08they were in a situation where at least CJ Stroud going into last off season, they already
37:12saw what they had in him and work.
37:14Also to be fair, like the Texans had plenty of pieces in place.
37:17They had Nico Collins, the drafted tank Dell, they had Laramie Tunsil, Shaq Mason.
37:21Like they had a bunch of pieces.
37:23They just needed that quarterback to put them all together.
37:26Patriots kind of in the opposite where they don't really have all the pieces necessarily
37:29definitely need to add more.
37:31But again, I think, I think the players understand that.
37:33And I think that's why in the locker room, they were like hyping him up so much.
37:37I'm sure some of it is sincere, but I think they also know like, damn, we need help.
37:41And if it's going to come, it's going to be because people want to play with Drake.
37:44This guy can be Josh Allen, like Devon Godshaw said the other day, but no, I'm with you.
37:48And I think we look at this next off season as an even more crucial one than last.
37:53I think this, this one was, you know, Belichick's gone.
37:56We need a quarterback.
37:57We need building blocks.
37:59They may have whipped on some, you know, guys like Jalen Polk and Javon Baker.
38:02Now we're going to, now they're really going to get their chance to play with, you know,
38:06some other receivers potentially being out, if not continuing to be healthy scratches.
38:10But I do, I, I hate to keep bringing up the commanders, but I think it's a, a notable
38:15comparison where, or you can at least compare and contrast the two, right.
38:18Where they bring in Dan Quinn and clip Kingsbury to experience guys.
38:22So that, you know, that's going to turn around a little bit more quickly where they lean
38:26on Gerard Mayo, first time head coach, the lead on Alex van Pelt for all intents and
38:30purposes, really a first time play call or second or first time since 2009.
38:34And so, you know, things change, offense has changed.
38:36So there's going to be lumps in the road, there's going to be bumps in the road.
38:40And now you, you have your quarterback, you've played your quarterback.
38:43Oh yeah.
38:44That, that too.
38:45That's the other comparison is obviously Daniels versus may where Daniels has the experience
38:48may was a little bit more of a project.
38:50So, you know, that now they're sort of starting there, I guess, starting that first season
38:54right here.
38:55And right now, and to that point, clip Kingsbury went to the commanders because they had the
38:59second pick.
39:00They already knew who their quarterback was going to be.
39:02Right.
39:03Caleb Williams was so locked in that he didn't interview with other teams and was like Keenan
39:07Allen was like hanging out with them or something like that.
39:09Right.
39:10Right.
39:11Like that was a very obvious.
39:12The commanders were like, we're going to get Jaden clip.
39:13You want to work with this guy?
39:15No one knew for sure.
39:16The Patriots are going to take Drake May.
39:17We didn't know for sure.
39:18Cause we were like, maybe they trade back and, you know, try to get JJ.
39:21I think that's another element of this where it's like, you couldn't attract Nick Haley
39:25because of Drake May.
39:26You didn't know.
39:27And the team, I'm sure they maybe could have said X, Y, Z, but like, they don't necessarily
39:29know for sure what's going to happen outside of them.
39:32So that's another part of that to take into consideration is clip came because he knew
39:35what he was going to be able to work with.
39:37And again, they also had Terry McLaurin.
39:38So it's like worst case scenario.
39:40We have a good quarterback who's great on the deep ball in one of the best default receivers
39:44who just hasn't been utilized very well.
39:47We don't know.
39:49So at this point, again, this is where you're at.
39:52Do you expect it again?
39:53We talked about the cuts here.
39:55You expect continuing tweaking, like you continue tweaking of the pieces that they have here.
40:01I think one of the things entering last game, I know you guys are going to talk about it
40:04when you do a Titans review here.
40:06You know, one of the things I think people were excited about entering that game is you
40:08got the receiver set you wanted to see, and that included Javon Baker being active Polk
40:13back off of concussion.
40:15And you were hoping, okay, last year's rookies, this year's rookies mixing Kendrick Bourne.
40:19Let's see what we can do.
40:20And it was very, very underwhelming.
40:21In addition to that, you had the line kind of moving pieces around again in a way that
40:28was a little bit perplexing as well.
40:30How do you see them kind of tinkering and tweaking here post deadline without really
40:34having added any bodies?
40:37Specifically for the offense.
40:38And that's another thing like Keishon Booty, we've even heard wasn't considered a starter
40:42and then basically earned his stripes during the season.
40:45And then there's another guy, I think they're trying to figure out where he fits best.
40:49Hopefully Javon Baker becomes that missing link where it's like, okay, finally we have
40:53a guy who can win one-on-one.
40:54I know you guys saw it.
40:55He only ran a couple routes, but he got open downfield both times.
40:59Like you see, all right, this is the Javon Baker we were hoping to get before the catch
41:02point.
41:03At least we don't know how the hands are going to look.
41:04That's TBD.
41:05But if he can be that guy, like we even saw formation with Baker at X, Polk at Z and then
41:11pop in the slot.
41:12It's like, you're hoping next year that's, you know, the kind of grouping you can rely
41:15on to some degree, but I'm thinking that's probably going to be what they do a little
41:18more.
41:19Javon Baker mixing in maybe over Polk.
41:21Try to put Keishon Booty in more of those Z rules where I think he thrives.
41:25Offensive line.
41:26I think guard, I think you need to keep Michael Moynihan with right guard.
41:30I don't think we see Lane Robinson again, to be honest.
41:32I feel like the plan last week was to get them a better run game, but obviously like
41:38he's such a project.
41:39It just doesn't justify putting him on the field.
41:41Even Michael Jordan, he's sliding pretty significantly.
41:43I feel like when post range comes back, it's either he's either going to left guard or
41:47center, whatever it is.
41:48Cities, you know, I don't know what the deal is with him because they clearly don't really
41:52want to put him out there as a starting lineman, but I think they definitely need to make some
41:56tweaks on the offensive side of the ball.
41:58Defensively, I think they just need guys to come back.
42:01To be honest, I don't know what else you can do.
42:03Like the linebackers position, they're kind of it is what it is.
42:06I know they just added Monty Rice.
42:07He's been in the league since twenty twenty one to the practice squad.
42:10Maybe he can help out.
42:11But the secondary pretty much is what it is.
42:14You know, Kyle Duggar, whenever he comes back to Bro Peppers TBD and then a Christian Barmore
42:18can come back, that's going to be a big boost.
42:20But other than that, like I don't really know what else you can do on the defensive side
42:22of the ball.
42:23Yeah.
42:24Has there ever been a person about which less has been said than Cole Strange?
42:28I forgot he was alive.
42:30Like I mean, do we even have any sense of an update if he's ever playing again?
42:35You mentioned when he comes back and I'm like, oh, who's we've heard a few times and he's
42:38on.
42:39Yeah.
42:40Yeah.
42:41Mark Daniels reported the other day that he's on he's on the cusp.
42:43I forgot the exact phrasing, but he he he's on on pace to return this season.
42:47And so they're going to keep and Caden Wallace as well.
42:51And so, look, we keep, you know, every single time that the Patriots trot out their offensive
42:56line during warm ups, everybody tweets, you know, it's the XMA X combination in X Games.
43:01I think they're going to keep tweaking it for the rest of the season.
43:03I think they realize that they're not going to find that, you know, you know, until they
43:06find their true five.
43:08But even, you know, they they signed that they signed Tyrese Robinson today guard off
43:12of the Vikings practice squad.
43:13They released Brian Hudson, Leighton Robinson doesn't look good.
43:17So they're probably going to like you said, they're going to keep on when you inside.
43:19And then when Cole Strange comes back, they may tweet things a little bit more, whether
43:22they put him at center like he's been working at, whether they put him back at guard, like
43:26they're going to keep turning this thing around.
43:27They're going to see what they have, what they don't have at each position so that going
43:31into next year, maybe they can actually solidify a true, you know, five offensive lineman that
43:36can start the majority of games.
43:37I feel like we've been talking about this forever.
43:40You want to want these guys to see through one lens, but when it's not when they're not
43:44performing, you've got to keep trying different guys out until something sticks.
43:47And so I think that's the main thing that's going to keep continuing.
43:50So I would expect offensive linemen to keep turning in and out of the starting lineup
43:54for us. And then there's a question about Aiden Wallace.
43:57He in past pro is very inconsistent.
43:59A big issue with him has been power because he likes to use what's called a hug technique
44:03where basically you try to grab onto the edge, rush your shoulders and basically push him
44:06or push him around the pocket.
44:08The downside is you're completely exposing your chest.
44:10He doesn't have the longest arms, so longer edge rushers can just stick one arm in his
44:15chest and walk him back.
44:16And there's not a whole lot he can do.
44:17He was inconsistent there.
44:19Run blocking, I thought he looked really good at times as that jumbo or muscle tight end
44:23or whatever. Still some inconsistencies there as well.
44:25That's why, like when Cole comes back, when Caden comes back, it's not a quick fix.
44:29Like these guys have Cole Strange has missed in a lot of time, has not played since the
44:34end of last season.
44:35Then Caden Wallace obviously is a rookie who's also missed time.
44:38So I want to make it very clear.
44:39These are not quick fixes or anything, but you know, at least it gives them options to
44:42experiment with.
44:43Yeah.
44:44I mean, at this point you're longing for, you know, Cole Strange not only hasn't played
44:49in a while, he didn't play well when he was playing, you know, maybe a small stretch or,
44:53you know, or so mixed in there, but yeah, some stability.
44:56And then someone who can even play at league average, you know, you know, or around that
45:02would be, would be nice.
45:03Cause again, you are kind of in a rotating, you know, hellscape of practice squad level
45:08players kind of shuffling in and out at really key positions, which makes it extremely hard.
45:13You mentioned the receiver, someone like Baker, we saw a couple of clips.
45:16You might've posted it yourself, Taylor, that, you know, Hey, he got open even as only four
45:20snaps a couple of times, at least one time, he definitely had a little bit of separation
45:25there, but there's just not enough time to get it there.
45:27And so really anything at this point will help, but this is where we're at guys closing
45:31thoughts here.
45:32Cause I know you're going to do a little bit more content talking about the Titans and
45:37then looking ahead a little bit after this is done putting a bow on it here as the Patriots
45:42again didn't sell any parts and did not add to their roster, which again, mild disappointment,
45:49but not a surprise closing thoughts.
45:52It kind of we're going to hit on a lot in the next episode.
45:55Yeah.
45:56We'll hit on, we'll hit on thoughts, but as far as just the deadline stuff, it kind of
45:59felt like, or it kind of always feels like, remember those, those Celtics deadlines forever,
46:03John, from like the, you know, maybe five, six years ago, or it was like, they're going
46:07to do something.
46:08They may do something.
46:09There's rumors.
46:10There's this, there's that.
46:11And then at the end of the day, nothing really ends up happening.
46:12It kind of felt like that where maybe they were close on some guys, whether they were
46:16going to sell, whether they were going to buy at the end of the day, they probably didn't
46:19like the price enough to do so.
46:22See what happened.
46:23I mean, again, there's a guy like Jonathan Jones is someone I probably would have sold
46:26off for a fourth or something like that.
46:27Now they don't do it.
46:29They didn't do it.
46:30I know.
46:31I know he's older.
46:32You need, I thought about it for a fourth.
46:34I, so it's like, I wasn't as absolutely gung-ho on keeping a guy like that, but I'm also now,
46:40you know, you look at it, it's like, okay, that's somebody who is good in the room and
46:43someone to have.
46:44So look for Thornton Osborne, see what happens there.
46:47But at the end of the day, they don't do anything and they continue to build for 2025 and beyond.
46:51Yeah.
46:52And I'll say that when it comes to them, not getting players, look at the players who were
46:56moved to other teams.
46:57Almost every single one of them went to a team that is at least in the playoff hunt.
47:01Like very rarely do you get players traded to bad teams.
47:04That just is not really how this works when it comes to them shipping players.
47:08Like you said, Mike, if they'd gotten like a fourth or, you know, a Kendrick Porter or
47:11Jonathan Jones, I would have thought about it, but who was going to give you a fourth
47:14round pick for guys that may not even you, Jonathan Jones could retire after this season
47:18for all we know.
47:19And Kendrick Bourne hasn't really done anything since 2022.
47:22So you know, those aren't guys with a lot of value.
47:25And then other guys like Devon Gottschalk, Kyle Duggar, the ones that you're seeing Anderson
47:28mentioned are guys who are pretty significant pieces in what you want moving on.
47:32Like they've just resigned those guys within the last six months.
47:36Exactly.
47:37And I think there was a reason.
47:38I don't think they were very excited to sell those guys off.
47:39Kendrick born again was the only one because he's coming off a major injury.
47:42I think they wanted to keep him around because they just had so little experience in that
47:46room.
47:47And it's a very friendly deal that they could have moved.
47:48They can move on from pretty easily.
47:49Like it's not like he's locked in necessarily.
47:51So I know it's disappointing because you get the rumors and you want to see some change,
47:56especially on a losing team.
47:57But I feel like it's hard to be surprised that we didn't get anything.
48:00I tend to agree, but keep it here, though.
48:03As we said, Mike and Taylor have a lot more football.
48:05What time you guys coming up with this show?
48:07Five minutes.
48:08430.
48:09Five minutes.
48:10I'm going to we're going to sign off.
48:11We're going to let you crack the knuckles and then there's going to be football talk.
48:14I'm sure, you know, some of this conversation will roll back over.
48:16But this was just simply very, you know, very quick and dirty trade deadline special just
48:22on the off chance something happened, but we didn't expect it.
48:25We're going to give this one a proper review.
48:27You're going to see you love it on on you and you're going to, you know, Patriots are
48:31exactly who they were before.
48:35No, not to have Monty Rice now.
48:37I know.
48:38I didn't even I when I got that when I got that one when that came across my desk, I
48:42looked at it.
48:43I'm like, I'm not even going to say it.
48:44I'm not saying I was going to I almost tweeted, I was like, is this even work?
48:48It probably not.
48:49I retweeted Brian's tweet about it.
48:51at home, uh, you know, stay tuned. Like I said, go, go, you know, quick bathroom break
48:55and then come on back. Cause as we said, these guys will be back with some more football
48:59talk as we said, quick shout out again to our sponsors, check out prize picks, uh, the
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49:32create an account, use the code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase terms to apply. As
49:36we said, there is more football talk coming right up here on Patriots daily with Mike
49:42and Taylor. Did I do that? Who did that? You mess with my buttons. I don't know. We're
49:46back now. So check it out. We'll see you guys later.