Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Oliver Leader de Saxe joined by Conservative councillor Habib Tejan and Labour councillor Alex Paterson.
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00:00Welcome to the Kent Politics Show, live here on KMTV, the only show on your TV that gets
00:28Kent's politicians talking. I'm Oliver Leader-The-Sax and the name of the game in Kent this week
00:33has been hustings, with the candidates trying to win hearts and minds across the county
00:38and KMTV broadcasting the debates in both Canterbury and Medway. But just because candidates
00:43are out campaigning doesn't mean local politics has paused. With concerns over antisocial
00:49vehicles and nuisance behaviour in Medway still very much a reality in recent weeks, and questions
00:55about how representatives are behaving in regards to gambling. Joining me on the surface
01:00to make sense of it all is the Conservative councillor for St Mary's Island, Habib Tajan,
01:06and Labour councillor for Rochester West and Borstal, Alex Patterson. But first, there
01:12is less than two weeks to go until Kent decides who will be representing them in Westminster
01:19and who will be our new Prime Minister. And with some voters still undecided, KMTV invited
01:24Medway candidates from all the major parties that take part in our hustings to lay out
01:30their vision for the five towns. Here's a round-up from the debates.
01:36Do they have to have a custodial sentence? Could they go back into the community?
01:40People should not be paying the level of taxes that they're paying.
01:42This happens by working with Europe.
01:45There are enough dentists, it's just that they're not paid correctly.
01:48What I hear time and time again is that people want stability.
01:51We do not believe that weapons are the answer.
01:54We vote for the Liberal Democrats to vote for a local champion.
01:57Support the students first.
01:59I'm on track to deliver a thousand new jobs.
02:01We would like to actually abolish the Police Crime Commissioner.
02:05We would take the water companies back into private ownership.
02:08We would leave the UCHR.
02:09Fiery discussion, tough questions and four distinct visions for the future of Medway.
02:15Last night, candidates from all the major parties in the three different seats for the
02:19area came together for the KMTV and Kent Messenger hustings.
02:24Only the Conservative Party turned down offers to debate their rivals and win over voters.
02:29With questions from the audience, the evening was fierce from the offset.
02:34There's a building company in the world that can build the GPs, doctors, the hospitals
02:39for 2.4 million people in two years to keep up with that flow of people.
02:43With respect, you can't manage doctors out of thin air.
02:47Community cohesion was a big sticking point for all the parties for the highly contested seat.
02:52I think we need to celebrate our multicultural community that we have here, celebrate the diversity.
02:58There's much more that unites us than divides us and I think sometimes where cohesion and
03:05integration needs to happen is that people perhaps feel fearful of one another because
03:10they don't know each other.
03:11The state of Kent's rivers and coastal areas came to the forefront at the Gillingham and
03:16Raynham hustings which followed after.
03:19Labour wants to introduce, first of all, tougher, quicker fines on the water companies
03:24that are doing this, but also for persistent offenders, make it a criminal offence because
03:28frankly what's happening at the minute isn't working.
03:31Yes, we have to address that issue carefully because, as I mentioned, the water quality
03:37is so bad it affects the health, so that has to be addressed too.
03:42We need it to be under public ownership where we have got a say in how it's run, where reservoirs
03:48are put and we don't want poo in our rivers.
03:52We're going to use money that we get from water companies to fund local journalists
03:57because we think in those areas these issues are not missed because there's a lot of good
04:00local journalists in there following up these stories and pressuring the water companies.
04:05And when it came to Medway's most rural constituency, Chatham and Ellsford, public health services
04:10dominated the discussion.
04:12This has all happened intentionally by the Conservatives who have changed the way that
04:17the budgets are managed for GPs, so they are having to manage these, they're bogged
04:21down by a lot of admin, we will change that.
04:23The NHS is something that Labour created and yes, we absolutely need to invest in it and
04:28we've made a commitment in our manifesto to 40,000 extra appointments every week.
04:33What we've got is a problem with doctors, nurses, skilled care staff leaving the NHS
04:38system, moving abroad, going to America, Australia.
04:42We'll do a cross-party debate to get an honest system whereby NHS and social care are combined
04:48together so that we get the best healthcare system in the world.
04:52While Medway's potential MPs may not agree on much, no one will be doubting that they
04:57were passionate about their politics.
05:00Oliver Leeds is the sats for KNTV in Medway.
05:03And for a full list of candidates for all three seats, just go to Kent Online.
05:11And joining me in the studio right now is Councillor Alex Paterson and Councillor Habib
05:15Tejan.
05:16I'm going to start with, obviously that was a long series of three different hustings
05:20with all the different candidates.
05:21What did you both make of it?
05:22Let's start with you, Alex.
05:24Well, I suppose it was a long package, but what was conspicuous by its absence was any
05:30commentary from the sitting MPs or the outgoing MPs, as I think we might start calling them.
05:36So Habib's got his work cut out, because we have MPs who have been in post ranging
05:41from 15 to, you know, 10 years, where they have had time to make clear where they stand
05:49on issues.
05:50They failed to do it in any of that time, and when faced with the opportunity to actually
05:54present their arguments to the general public, they have been found lacking and missing in
05:58action.
05:59Let's get on to that, Tejan, because obviously there weren't any candidates from the Conservative
06:04Party that night.
06:05Raymond Chistie, Kelly Tolhurst and Nathan Gamester, the Chatham and Ellsford candidate
06:14for the Conservative Party, none of them were there.
06:17Were they scared of attending?
06:18What was the reasoning behind it, do you think?
06:20Absolutely not.
06:21I mean, our candidates decided a long time ago they were going to spend this time talking
06:26to residents, speaking to them and understanding what the issues are and what the concerns
06:30were, and that's exactly what they were doing.
06:32But they've been the MPs for such a long time, if they don't know the priorities of
06:37residents by now, then it's too late.
06:40It's frankly too late.
06:41So I'm afraid that just doesn't work.
06:43They've had plenty of time to do the talking, and now the time is there to actually present
06:48your ideas.
06:49It's an election period, it just doesn't work.
06:51Sorry, we live in an evolving world, and things change constantly, there's constant change.
06:57So you've got to be constantly listening, and you need to decide how you want to spend
07:01your time during this election period, and I believe a decision would make that it's
07:05more effective to spend the time on the doorstep, and that's exactly what they were doing.
07:10I think viewers will make their own minds up about that, but it's perfectly legitimate
07:13that people should be able to question the people who seek their votes in less than a
07:18fortnight's time, and those candidates just weren't available, didn't show the general
07:22public the respect to actually be there and answer the questions, not just in your hustings,
07:26but in hustings arranged by other news outlets.
07:30The idea that they didn't have time, there's a certain candidate who's always got time
07:34for a selfie, he doesn't have time for his voters.
07:37I want to come into that, because obviously, do you think hustings are an effective way
07:42of running a campaign?
07:43Do you think that they are a good use of time?
07:45Obviously, going on to the doorstep is quite vital in a campaign to find out that canvassing
07:51data, to find out who will be voting for you.
07:53We'll start with you, Habib.
07:55What do you think?
07:56Do you think hustings are an effective way of campaigning?
07:59Absolutely.
08:00On a national level, it is, but locally, you want to get down and speak to the people.
08:04That's a different approach.
08:05I think, yeah, to have a husting in a general election where you've got people contesting
08:10to be Prime Minister, holding a public husting for the whole nation to see them on live television,
08:16I think that's very important.
08:18When it comes to the parliamentary candidate, I mean, you can decide which one you find
08:23more effective and more efficient, and I think on this occasion, an informed decision was
08:28made that it's more effective to be on the doorstep using this time.
08:33But these hustings were being broadcast.
08:36Thousands of people were watching at home.
08:38Your comparison to the parliamentary debates that we've seen with the leaders, it's quite
08:41an apt comparison because these were being broadcast.
08:44Surely they would have reached thousands of their voters across all three constituencies.
08:49Absolutely.
08:50And there's so many different medium of communicating with voters now, and the exchange can happen
08:54on social platform.
08:56It's happened with telephone, it happened face-to-face.
08:59So yes, exchanges are taking place, and that communication has been ongoing with voters.
09:04Alex, you know you want to speak here.
09:06Come in.
09:07Look, it speaks volumes that Habib thinks that his candidate is more effective being
09:13represented by an empty chair.
09:14I tend to agree.
09:16I've said before, I don't think she can debate her way out of a paper bag, and actually it's
09:21quite a smart move, perhaps, not to expose herself to that public embarrassment.
09:27But if we're talking about efficient use of time since the election, what I'll tell you
09:31is that within hours of the election, called minutes really, what was happening in my constituency
09:36was our candidate was arranging to go out on the doorstep to talk to voters right away.
09:42Meantime, at Conservative central office, it looks like what was much more their priority
09:47was to get on the Paddy Power website and place some bets on when the election was going
09:52to be held.
09:53Absolutely completely different set of priorities.
09:56And the idea that it's an either-or game, I'm afraid everyone knows they were frit.
10:03It's the favourite phrase of Margaret Thatcher, I'm sure one of your heroes, they were frit.
10:08Do you want to come back to that?
10:10Absolutely.
10:11I mean, the Prime Minister was quite clear yesterday that he was disappointed that a
10:15member, they'll have this allegation of members being involved in that act and a live investigation
10:22is ongoing.
10:23I can't comment on a live investigation, you know, I mean, I wouldn't want anyone to be
10:29commenting if anyone was being investigated unless it's at such time when, you know, they've
10:34been found foul of committing an offence.
10:37So I'll leave it at that.
10:40We'll come back to public standards after the break.
10:42I wanted to talk about some of the polling here because it is quite tight in Chatham
10:46and Aylesford, but there is a Labour lead in Jamie and Raynham and also in Rochester
10:51and Strood, while reform seems to be gaining ground around 20 per cent.
10:55Habib, do you think that reform are a threat to the Conservative vote here?
11:00Look, I mean, that's not what I'm finding out on the doorstep.
11:03So I mean, yeah, that's your pool, but I think the pool that matters is the pool on the 4th
11:07of July.
11:08And that's the one we're paying attention to.
11:10We are focusing on talking to our voters, telling them about the delay they had over
11:14the years.
11:15I mean, some great stuff has been happening in Medway and people can see that.
11:20We've got inflation is down, you know, to the lowest since it's been since 2021.
11:28It's down to 2 per cent.
11:30We know that the waiting list is coming down, you know, to one of the lowest as well.
11:34We know that, you know, some good things are happening.
11:36I'm going to have to stop you there because obviously we are going to our break now.
11:40We'll have more debate from across the county just after this break.
11:45We'll be talking about public services, those gambling allegations and antisocial vehicles
11:50in Medway.
11:52Don't go anywhere.
15:06Welcome back to the Kent Politics Show live here on KMTV.
15:13I'm still joined by Conservative councillor St Mary's Island's Habib Tajan and Labour
15:19councillor for Rochester and West Ballsdale, Alex Patterson.
15:23And now on the 1st of April 2024, Medway council banned nuisance vehicles, meaning motorists
15:29found causing disruption could have been fined up to £100 and go to court with a public
15:34space protection order in place across the entire area.
15:37But last month, the Conservative group called on the now Labour candidate for Chatham and
15:40Aylesford, Tress Osborne, to step down for what they say is his failure to tackle the
15:45problem.
15:46The local democracy reporting service spoke to just a few of those affected just after
15:51the ban came into effect.
15:53Just worry about my safety and the safety of my dog.
15:56And not only that, sometimes I come over here with my granddaughter and she's only three.
16:01And then I have to worry about her as well.
16:03I did at one point stop coming to this field to walk the dog.
16:06The noise is just really annoying.
16:08You could be peacefully walking your dog and you just hear a roar.
16:11I don't like to see them ripping up the football pitches or going anywhere near people with
16:16dogs in there.
16:18Sometimes it can get a bit out of hand.
16:20Sometimes they're a little bit self-centred.
16:21But generally speaking, most of the ones I've come across have been not too bad.
16:26So obviously a lot of concern there from residents.
16:30Obviously these nuisance vehicles at Barnfields in particular have been a major concern.
16:33I wanted to ask first, obviously as a Conservative councillor, do you think things have improved, Habib?
16:40Absolutely not.
16:41I mean, listen to the residents and what they just said, you know, it's appalling that.
16:45Look, when Councillor Osborne and the Labour Party were in opposition, they said they were
16:51going to deal with this problem.
16:52They had ample time to deal with it.
16:54Now they're in power.
16:55They've got all the resources.
16:57We backed the PSPO, unanimously voted for by all Conservatives and Labour in the council.
17:04And they haven't used that tool to resolve the problem.
17:06And it is affecting our residents.
17:08You know, if Councillor Osborne cannot step up to the task, he should step aside.
17:13I mean, now he wants to become MP, asking for people to vote for him, and he can't even
17:18deal with this.
17:19I think it's appalling, don't you?
17:21Alex, what do you make of all of this?
17:22Well, I mean, frankly, that call from a member of the Conservative frontbench is frankly
17:28laughable.
17:30This problem has existed for many years, and the PSPO came into force in April.
17:35Within a month, it was apparently taking far too long to get anything done about it.
17:40This is the same group of people who have been in power for 14 years, want another five
17:44years to sort out the country's problems, which they have only made worse in those 14
17:49years.
17:50So, frankly, a month is plenty of time to resolve a problem which has existed in my
17:54ward significantly for many years now.
17:57What I've actually seen in the time since the PSPO order came into effect is that residents
18:03have been much better at sharing intelligence with police, with community safety teams.
18:08We've actually had someone apprehended on Bostow Wreck in my ward, and actually issued
18:15with one of these fines.
18:17We've also seen a great deal of action in the confines of a spending envelope that's
18:24really pretty tight, because do you know what they did?
18:27They got rid of all the police as well.
18:29And actually, that's...
18:30That's not true.
18:31Well, we know it's true.
18:32That's right.
18:33Amazing.
18:34What the proclamators have done is cut hundreds of police officers in Kent, and experienced
18:38police officers, and then re-recruited...
18:40That's 20,000 more police officers.
18:42No, there are not.
18:43No, there are not.
18:44I don't think we'll live in this country since you got rid of the thousands of police officers
18:48across the country.
18:49Per capita...
18:50Do we have more...
18:51Per capita...
18:52No.
18:53Per capita, we have fewer police now than we did before.
18:55And what you're asking them to do...
18:56The distraction's tragic.
18:57You're asking for invisible...
18:58Right.
18:59You're asking for invisible men to apprehend people.
19:00Can we get two people...
19:01You're both speaking at the exact same time.
19:04Can we get Habib to come in here?
19:06I think, Alex, you've had a fair say there.
19:08Habib, what do you make of all of this?
19:09You're obviously not quite happy about the comments about policing there, some of the
19:13comments about...
19:14You're being a bit too hasty.
19:15Your calls to ask the members to resign, you think it's a bit hasty, some of the calls
19:19you've been making.
19:20No, no, I don't.
19:21It's a money-fed-off team.
19:22No, I don't.
19:23I mean, look, this has been going through since last October.
19:25We know that.
19:26I mean, it took a time for it to come through the council.
19:31April.
19:32Yeah, it came through April, but the work should have been ongoing from then.
19:35I mean, how many enforcement have you got in place?
19:37What's the plan?
19:38What's the collaboration with the police?
19:42What's been done to stop this?
19:43Something has happened.
19:44That's why residents are raising it, and that's why people are getting angry, because you
19:47say one thing when you're in opposition, once you're in power, you do something else.
19:51Habib, there's a really important and fundamental point here that you seem to misunderstand
19:56the use of the PSPO order.
19:59Council officers have no power to stop individuals in this...
20:03Let me finish.
20:05You rely on police officers.
20:06They're the people with the power of arrest.
20:08They're the people with the power to stop.
20:10Unfortunately, you have run down our policing in this country to such an extent that community
20:15policing is on its knees.
20:17That's absolutely what we need to happen.
20:20A fortnight yesterday, we need a government in place which is prepared to build back up
20:25neighbourhood policing, because it's that local intelligence, that information that
20:29comes from my residents that actually makes the difference, not people making grandstanding
20:34comments and calling for people to resign.
20:37Look, get to the point.
20:41Let's get to the point.
20:43You have the opportunity, you have the resources, you have a manager, you haven't got a plan.
20:48Let's not...
20:49Plan?
20:50You haven't got a plan to stop...
20:51Do you believe this is a problem?
20:52What's your plan?
20:53It's quite offensive.
20:54You haven't got a plan to stop this problem.
20:55What's your plan?
20:56It's quite offensive.
20:57What's your plan?
20:58What's quite offensive...
20:59No, no, no.
21:00Let me finish.
21:01Let me finish.
21:02What's quite offensive is that I've been a councillor for six years.
21:03This has been an issue for all of those six years.
21:06Who was in power all of that time, for 20 years prior to us taking control of the council
21:11last May?
21:12And action has happened since then, and since April...
21:16Did you say you were going to resolve it when you were in opposition?
21:19Yes or no?
21:20Absolutely.
21:21And that is exactly what we're doing.
21:22Have you done that?
21:23Are you doing something different?
21:24What were you doing in power?
21:25Right.
21:26Guys, I'm going to have to stop this debate here.
21:27I think it's getting quite fiery, and we're going to move on to another controversial issue
21:30this week.
21:32So, now we're moving on to public services, and public standards I mean, which have re-entered
21:37the public debate this week as two Conservative candidates from outside of Kent are being
21:41investigated by the Gambling Commission over alleged wages placed on the date of the 4th
21:46July election.
21:47In fact, those gambling concerns were put to Rishi Sunak on BBC Question Time last
21:52night by a member of the audience.
21:53Let's take a quick look.
21:55Emerging allegations about betting on the election date, the absolute epitome of the
22:01lack of ethics that we have had to tolerate from the Conservative Party for years and
22:07years.
22:08Well, like you, I was incredibly angry.
22:11Incredibly angry to learn of these allegations.
22:14It's a really serious matter.
22:16It's right that they're being investigated properly by the relevant law enforcement authorities,
22:21including, as Fiona said, a criminal investigation by the police.
22:26I want to be crystal clear that if anyone has broken the rules, they should face the
22:31full force of the law, and that's what those investigations are there to do, and I hope
22:36that they do their work as quickly and as thoroughly as possible.
22:40And with less than two weeks to go, KMTV is preparing for our special election programme.
22:45On the 4th July, we'll be broadcasting live for 12 hours, from 10pm to 10am.
22:51We'll bring you the latest results, detailed analysis in the studio, and a host of reporters
22:54joining us from every count.
22:57Wherever you are in Kent, we will have it covered.
23:00Just as you're watching now on Freeview 7, Virgin Media 159, on our website, kmtv.co.uk
23:06and Kent Online.
23:10And now we're going to go back to that issue around public standards.
23:14Obviously, we've heard a lot of concern in recent years after Partygate, after the expense
23:20scandals in the 2010s.
23:22What do both of you make of these gambling allegations?
23:25More in broad terms, do you think there has been a decline in public standards in recent
23:29years?
23:30Let's go to you first, Alex.
23:31Well, you know, there's the great irony, you know, last night Rishi Sunak talking about
23:34how disappointed he is, how angry he is, and how anyone found to have committed an offence
23:39will be booted out.
23:41This would hold a lot more weight, it would carry a lot more force if he wasn't one of
23:46only two prime ministers to actually have been convicted of Partygate offences during
23:51Covid.
23:52When everyone else, when our constituents were operating under lockdown rules that meant
23:56that they missed seeing loved ones, they were missing loved ones on their deathbed.
24:03And Rishi and Boris Johnson were partying.
24:06So if you want to talk about standards in public life, then I'm afraid that goes right
24:10to the top.
24:11And he can't really be surprised because, you know, he's reaping what he sowed.
24:15Habib, do you think there is a problem with people in public life acting in their own
24:20self-interest?
24:22You've seen it quite a lot.
24:23Do you think that's a problem?
24:24Do you think there's a resolution that can exist to these issues?
24:27Absolutely, that's a problem.
24:29People in public life, as I just said, say one thing when you're in opposition, do another
24:33thing when you're in power.
24:34Say you want to protect jobs like Chatham Docks, once you get into power you vote to
24:38put 800 livelihoods at risk.
24:41These are all, you know, we've got to look all around to see there's problems everywhere.
24:46And I think public standards need to be really re-evaluated and look into that.
24:53We are not really living by the Northern principle in many ways.
24:56Integrity is key, leadership is key, and we see a lack of it every day.
25:00It's affecting people.
25:01We've got livelihoods being put at risk because of lack of integrity.
25:06Say one thing, get into power to a complete 180 degrees.
25:12Do you think the parties are doing enough during this election to promote policies that
25:17could fix some of these issues in Westminster and more broadly in politics?
25:22Let's go to you Alex.
25:23Well look, I'm really optimistic.
25:25You would expect me to say that, but I've waited a long time for a Labour government.
25:29I was born under a Labour government, but actually the sum total of my time spent under
25:34a Labour government in my lifetime is 15 years.
25:38Labour has only governed for 30 years out of the last 100, and every time they have
25:42been in government they have delivered transformational change for the country, a time of optimism.
25:48People who can remember that far back, remember 1997, remember all the things that were delivered,
25:53the minimum wage and all the work done to lower hospital waiting times, only for in
26:002010, for everything to be taken back to square one.
26:03Has a single thing got better in the last 14 years?
26:05I can't think of one.
26:07Habib, very quickly, just a couple of words.
26:10Do you think your party has a clear plan for fixing these issues?
26:14Absolutely, there's a clear plan for fixing these issues.
26:18Investigation is ongoing, as I said previously, there's a lot of investigation.
26:22But we've got something at stake here, you know.
26:25Tax could go up.
26:26The last time when the Labour government left power, there was no...
26:29It already has gone up.
26:30You've brought it up.
26:31You're talking over me again.
26:32Well, we're going to have to leave it here.
26:34It's been great having both of you on the programme, but that's all we have from today
26:38on the Kent Politics Show.
26:40Come join us next week for more debate from all across Medway.
26:45We're looking forward to continuing these great conversations.
26:48Kent Tonight follows after.
26:50Have a good evening.