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00:00I'm going to begin the program here in France where President Emmanuel Macron is continuing
00:11his hunt for a new Prime Minister today.
00:13He's set to hold talks with leaders from his own centrist bloc as well as the Socialist
00:18Party and the right-wing Republicans.
00:21Finding Michel Barnier's replacement is a task that the French President said Thursday
00:25would be completed in the coming days.
00:27In a defiant televised address, Macron roared out stepping down, despite growing calls from
00:32opposition leaders for him to do so, blaming the fall of Barnier's government on quote
00:37anti-Republican politicians.
00:39Emily Boyle has more on that speech.
00:45In his first allocution since the fall of his government on Wednesday, Macron announced
00:49he would be naming a Prime Minister in the next few days.
00:55In the next few days I will appoint a Prime Minister.
00:58I will instruct him to form a government of general interest representing all the political
01:02forces of a government that can participate in it, or at least undertake not to censor
01:07it.
01:08Michel Barnier was forced to hand in his resignation and that of his government after the motion
01:12of no confidence passed by 331 votes.
01:16Barnier had been in the role three months, the shortest tenure of any Prime Minister
01:20in modern French history.
01:22The President, who looked significantly weaker after the motion of no confidence, came out
01:27defiant.
01:28He assured his critics he would not be stepping down.
01:32The mandate that you democratically gave me is a mandate of five years and I will remain
01:38in office until the end of that term.
01:41Macron lashed out at what he called an anti-Republican front which was not working in the interests
01:46of the French people.
01:48I will never assume the irresponsibility of others, especially of members of Parliament
01:53who choose to bring down France's budget and government only a few days before the Christmas
01:58holidays.
01:59Macron now faces a difficult task to come up with a Prime Minister capable of leading
02:04a minority government in a Parliament where no party holds a majority.
02:09The President said that the first priority for this new Prime Minister will be to come
02:13up with a budget in January.
02:15For the time being, the 2024 budget will roll over to next year.
02:19We're going to talk more about the political turmoil here in France and speak to Paul Smith
02:26who is an Associate Professor in French and Francophone Studies at the University of Nottingham.
02:31Great to have you Paul.
02:32So Macron has hinted a little bit at taking responsibility for what's happened but he's
02:36mostly blamed the fall of Michel Barnier's government on this so-called anti-Republican
02:41front.
02:43Is that really the case?
02:44Should Macron be taking more blame here?
02:47I think he's assuming, as he said, he takes blame for the original mistake or what he
02:53said last night was that people hadn't understood his dissolution back in June.
02:58I'm not sure I understand it still to this day.
03:02Why would the French have to understand his thought behind that?
03:05But I think that that's really his attempt to re-centre in a fairly ham-fisted way, I
03:13have to say, a very clumsy way, trying to re-centre the government and open negotiations
03:19with the centre-left.
03:21Whether they respond positively or not, we'll see this morning when their leaders go to
03:25meet with Macron at the Elysee.
03:27But I actually thought the speech itself, the tenor of the speech, was not a good one
03:31and was quite glad it only lasted 10 minutes because he just felt that he was going to
03:35keep digging a hole for himself.
03:38Macron also very much ruled out the idea of him stepping down despite the mounting
03:44pressure on him to do so.
03:46He says he's going to stay on until 2027.
03:49Do you think he should step down?
03:50No, I don't.
03:52I don't see any reason constitutionally for that to happen and that would just create,
03:55if he did step down, it would create an even bigger crisis.
03:59There are only two parties in France that would be ready for a presidential election
04:03and that would be La France Insoumise and the National Rally.
04:07The other parties are absolutely not prepared and that really would be, he talked about
04:12this anti-Republican front, meaning La France Insoumise on one side and the National Rally
04:17on the other, that would absolutely be handing things over to them, the prospect of a presidential
04:24election at this point, irrespective of what the opinion polls are telling us, would be
04:29absolutely catastrophic for France.
04:31And Paul, you mentioned there that Macron is going to be continuing talks with political
04:35leaders today.
04:37It's aimed at forging an agreement on finding some sort of new prime minister to take over
04:42from Barnier.
04:43How do you think the talks will go?
04:45Will they be able to find a consensus?
04:48It's really very difficult because you've got to find, first of all, you have to find
04:52a candidate that can reach across the divide.
04:54That's the really big problem at the moment.
04:57There are one or two names that have been circulating, but it's very difficult to see
05:01somebody, let's say on the centre-right, who could reach across to the left.
05:05There might be some centre-left candidates who might be willing to reach across to the
05:10right.
05:11One, I suppose, encouraging thing is that Laurent Wauquiez, the leader of Les Républicains
05:16in the National Assembly, has said that he will not, his group will not censure another
05:21government.
05:22They're kind of, they're using this whole idea of the motion of no confidence as a kind
05:25of a bar, if you like, a benchmark.
05:30But at the moment, the speech last night was not really meant, I don't think, to placate
05:38the centre-left.
05:39So it's very difficult to see exactly who would be the kind of, people have used the
05:43idea of the National Union government sort of sitting in the middle of French politics.
05:47It's difficult to see at this moment in time who would lead that.
05:50So there are no names, you know, there have been some names that have been floating around,
05:55but do you have any names that you would think perhaps could take over?
06:00Yeah, the defence minister, Sébastien Le Corneuil, has been mentioned, but the problem
06:04there is that he's being mentioned because he has the favour of the National Rally.
06:09Well, the problem with governing with the kind of tacit agreement of the National Rally
06:15of Le Pen and company is that, you know, it's like Aesop's fable of the scorpion and the
06:20frog.
06:21The scorpion in the end will sting the frog and drown with the frog when you cross the
06:24river because that's in its nature.
06:26It needs to be somebody who is much more in the centre and has a reputation, who has
06:32a good reputation with the parties of the left who might reach out and bring on board,
06:38if it's at all possible, the socialists or at least, I mean, as Emily said and as Macron
06:46himself said, at least parties that won't automatically push the censure button, because
06:51otherwise we just get into a continual kind of spiral of governments appointed and then,
06:57you know, votes of no confidence and so it goes.
07:02And away from the candidates that could possibly take over from Barnier, Macron also in that
07:07speech yesterday mentioned this special law that will be tabled to Parliament this month,
07:12that in order to allow public services to continue without a working budget.
07:19Give us a sense of what kind of impact you think this new law will have.
07:23Well, this new law will indeed, will simply sort of tide France over.
07:29In fact, it's possible for Parliament, once there is a government in place, it's possible
07:35to, first of all, to have this special law that will tide us over, will tide the French
07:41over.
07:42But then actually Parliament has until June to put in place a permanent budget for 2025.
07:47I mean, it's not a, you know, these, although these things have never happened or haven't
07:50happened in the recent past, the French system is prepared for it.
07:54So there'll be a special law which can be as temporary or as long lasting as it needs
07:59to be to cover the period.
08:01And then come the new year, come January and afterwards, then a new bill could be brought
08:08by a new government and that would kind of set things up.
08:11So although we're carrying forward the tax criteria, the pensions criteria that we had
08:17for 2024, and some people will win, some people will lose.
08:21And because, you know, there are aspects of what the Barnier government have put in place
08:25that are going to help French agriculture, those things aren't going to come into place.
08:30Nevertheless, they can do.
08:31It's not the end of the story with regard to a budget, but at least it tides France
08:37over for the time being.
08:38Paul, it's always a pleasure talking to you.
08:40Thanks so much for giving us your insight there.
08:42That's Paul Smith, who is an associate professor in French and Francophone studies at the University
08:47of Nottingham.
08:48Thanks so much.