#11hHour #WaseemBadami #ImranKhan #PTI #PMShehbazSharif #Negotiations #AsimMunir #Establishment
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Waseem Badami
Guests:
- Sahibzada Hamid Raza SIC
- Ather Kazmi (Analyst)
- Muneeb Farooq (Analyst)
- Fahd Husain (Analyst)
- Mohsin Baig (Analyst)
"Harsh statements will be avoided from both sides," Sahibzada Hamid Raza Told Everything
Why did PMLN govt become ready for negotiations? - Experts' Analysis
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Waseem Badami
Guests:
- Sahibzada Hamid Raza SIC
- Ather Kazmi (Analyst)
- Muneeb Farooq (Analyst)
- Fahd Husain (Analyst)
- Mohsin Baig (Analyst)
"Harsh statements will be avoided from both sides," Sahibzada Hamid Raza Told Everything
Why did PMLN govt become ready for negotiations? - Experts' Analysis
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:00In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful, Assalamualaikum.
00:15Today's session is divided into two parts.
00:18We will start with the discussion of the Pakistan Initiative Committee.
00:23Obviously, the big question is whether this discussion will be beneficial or not.
00:29So, the translations of the discussion of the Committee will be made by Mr. Hamid Reda.
00:35In the initial part, we will learn from him how fruitful he is in understanding the discussions of tomorrow.
00:40How much hope he has of the future discussions.
00:42Is he being introduced to Bani PTI?
00:44Is he going back to yesterday's date?
00:46Because the government had committed to facilitate the meeting.
00:49So, let's talk about this for a while.
00:52And then, regarding the process of this discussion, many questions are arising.
00:56So, we have asked four of our senior friends to tell us what will come out of the discussions.
01:05Will we hear anything from the US?
01:08Will the results of the next few weeks be positive or negative?
01:12Today, everyone is asking whether the situation will change or not.
01:15We will raise all these questions with the panelists.
01:18Starting with us is the Chairman of the Sunni Ijtihad Council and an important member of the Discussion Committee,
01:23Mr. Hamid Reda.
01:25Huzoor, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
01:27Walaikum-o-Alaikum, Wasim Bhai.
01:29Sir, thank you very much for your time.
01:31First of all, Mr. Hamid, tell us, you were committed to facilitating the meeting with Mr. Imran Khan.
01:38So, when I am talking to you now, have you been told that you will meet Mr. Khan tomorrow or day after tomorrow?
01:46From the government, we have not been formally informed yet.
01:51Okay.
01:52And even in today's date, you have not met Mr. Ali Ameen, right?
01:56Because yesterday, we were told that you will meet Mr. Ali Ameen Khan.
02:00No, as of now, I have been informed that we have not met Mr. Ali Ameen in the last half an hour.
02:06Okay.
02:07Sir, tomorrow's meeting, as a whole, obviously, you have spoken to him yesterday, so I don't want to repeat it.
02:12I want to move forward.
02:13But, as a whole, do you consider it as a form of encouragement?
02:16Tomorrow's meeting, overall, do you think it is okay?
02:21Sir, look, this was the initial stage.
02:23It was an unofficial meeting.
02:25Firstly, we accepted that the committee should have access to Mr. Imran Khan.
02:30And on top of that, the government gave us a commitment that we will meet.
02:35So, this was a positive gesture.
02:37Secondly, when we have put our demands there, the government has listened to our demands.
02:43And it is clear to hear that on 2nd, we will present our Charter of Demand in writing.
02:49So, so far, the meetings were positive.
02:55Okay.
02:56And did he also say to you in the form of a demand or a request?
03:02If he did, then?
03:03That, sir, look at the Twitter issue as well.
03:05As soon as things start to get better, there is a tweet.
03:07Then the whole process gets delayed.
03:11No, sir.
03:12There was no mention of Twitter in my presence.
03:14There was no mention of Twitter in my presence.
03:15I was being finalized on 2nd.
03:19And the announcement was being finalized.
03:21So, our Head of the Negotiating Committee, Mr. Umar Ayub, was in the courtroom in Peshawar.
03:26So, I went up to talk to him.
03:29So, I went for 3-4 minutes.
03:32But apart from that, there was no mention of Twitter in my presence.
03:36Yes, this was definitely discussed.
03:38That the unresponsive statements or the intensity of the statements should be less on both sides.
03:46This has definitely been discussed.
03:48And has there been a kind of agreement on this that those people from their side and you from your side
03:53should make the statements a little lighter and make it so that the environment remains relevant for the negotiations?
04:02No, there was no agreement on this.
04:04But apart from that, there has been hope expressed that other than the Negotiating Committee,
04:11the other parties will soften their speech and tone.
04:15Both sides have expressed hope.
04:18And this has been discussed.
04:20That as long as the negotiations are going on, the other parties will keep their tone soft.
04:28And there will not be any harshness or harshness in their tone.
04:32Because of which the negotiations will be complete.
04:34This means that if I ask you an innocent question,
04:38Sir, you said in our program last week that I will not leave my political enemies.
04:42And if there is harshness in me, I will definitely take revenge.
04:45If I ask you a question today, you will say,
04:47Waseem Bhai, the answer to this later.
04:49For now, let it be.
04:50Is that so?
04:51If I ask you today, will you say that it is still there or not?
04:53No, no, Waseem Bhai.
04:54Even today, my answer is the same.
04:56Even today, my answer is the same.
04:57Even today, my answer is the same.
04:59I did not say anything about being behind the last statement.
05:02Okay.
05:03There will be no new statement.
05:04There is no point in being behind the last one.
05:06No, there will be no new statement at that time.
05:09Criticize.
05:10This is the right of both parties and the government.
05:13It is their right.
05:14We cannot take it back.
05:15Criticize as much as they want.
05:17But if they sit below the belt,
05:20if they lower the person-specific criticism to a moral level,
05:24then there will be a response.
05:26Some people can resist.
05:28Some people cannot resist.
05:30But anyway, if the criticism is within the given parameters of morality,
05:35then we will be silent about it.
05:37And if you attack the personality,
05:40then the response will be in the personal capacity.
05:44Is there a civil disobedience?
05:46Or for now, at least the next session,
05:49you will meet on 6th.
05:53Is there a civil disobedience till then?
05:57No, sir.
05:58There is no civil disobedience at all.
06:00Only Mr. Imran Khan has the right to make a civil disobedience.
06:04No one else has the right.
06:06So, civil disobedience is happening.
06:08And its first phase was to limit the remittances.
06:13That is the strategy.
06:16So, civil disobedience has entered its first phase.
06:20It has started to limit the remittances.
06:25Yes, as of now, yes.
06:27Didn't the government tell you that
06:29if you are talking on one side,
06:31then at least stop this civil disobedience for now.
06:33Didn't they say this?
06:35No, sir.
06:36The government has not put such a bar in front of us in this regard.
06:39Okay.
06:40But you also don't understand that as a gesture,
06:42civil disobedience is an option that can be exercised after 15 days.
06:45For this, you don't even have to say that
06:47people are ready for the Jalsa.
06:49The caravans have left.
06:50How can we take back the appeal now?
06:52You have to say this.
06:53And you have to act accordingly.
06:55So, don't you think,
06:56leaving aside the request of the government,
06:58that for the time being,
06:59civil disobedience should be done for a few days.
07:00Mr. Faisal Khan will also do it.
07:01But if you were to suggest him,
07:03would you suggest that
07:04for the time being,
07:05civil disobedience should be done for a few days.
07:06There is no harm in that.
07:07No, sir.
07:08I will not suggest in my capacity.
07:11Okay.
07:13Mr. Faisal Khan has decided.
07:16If he asks me,
07:17I will definitely express my opinion.
07:19That is why we said that
07:20this political committee,
07:22sorry, this is a discussion committee,
07:24and all the political people are present in it,
07:26they should be allowed to meet Mr. Khan.
07:28Because for the past three months,
07:29no political people from his party,
07:31his allies,
07:32have met Mr. Khan.
07:34When Mr. Khan asks about this,
07:36I will definitely express my opinion.
07:38But I will not recommend anything in my personal capacity.
07:41Right.
07:42So for the time being,
07:43civil disobedience has begun.
07:44And the Pakistani resident has been appealed
07:46to limit the remittances.
07:47And you say that
07:48it will go as it is.
07:50For the time being,
07:51we are not saying to stop it at all.
07:52Is that right?
07:53Yes, sir.
07:54In a day or two,
07:55if there is any development in it,
07:58but as of now,
07:59civil disobedience is standing there.
08:02Which has begun.
08:03Okay.
08:04Yesterday, there was a meeting.
08:05Were you there, Mr. Hamid?
08:06I mean,
08:07your own discussion committee.
08:08Last night,
08:09did you attend the meeting in the KP house?
08:13Yes,
08:14there was an unofficial meeting.
08:15Yesterday,
08:16Ali Amin Ghandapur,
08:17after attending the cabinet meeting,
08:19reached Islamabad.
08:21So,
08:22in that meeting,
08:23three or four of us were present.
08:25There was an unofficial meeting.
08:26There was no official meeting.
08:28Right.
08:29But sir,
08:30in that meeting,
08:31did you all,
08:32I mean,
08:33the people who were not present in the meeting yesterday,
08:35Mr. Ghandapur,
08:36it would be right to say that
08:37Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf,
08:38as a whole,
08:39till now,
08:40all the progress that has been made,
08:41obviously,
08:42it has not been done yet,
08:43but till now,
08:44at least,
08:45it has expressed satisfaction.
08:46Would it be right to say this?
08:49Yes,
08:50till now,
08:51the progress that has been made,
08:52it has expressed satisfaction.
08:54Actually,
08:55basically,
08:56it will be known on the 2nd,
08:57Mr. Wasim.
08:58The day we will table our charter of demand in writing,
09:02and after that,
09:03I think,
09:04within one or two meetings,
09:05we will realize the attitude of the people.
09:07Right.
09:08This charter of demand,
09:09it is very clear,
09:10obviously,
09:11Mr. Khan has repeatedly said that
09:12these are the two demands.
09:13So,
09:14then,
09:15what was the reason?
09:16You take this charter of demand tomorrow,
09:18or even if you were telling them in writing,
09:20you would have said,
09:21take this in writing,
09:22it takes five minutes to write.
09:23Because you have not yet discussed
09:25what our demands will be.
09:26You are very clear about it.
09:27So,
09:28why is it that in the next meeting,
09:29the charter of demand will be given in writing?
09:31Why?
09:32When the Negotiating Committee contacted us,
09:34four of our Iraqis were not available.
09:36We informed Speaker Chamber the day before yesterday.
09:39After that,
09:40we were told to meet unofficially,
09:43and the official meeting,
09:45the formal meeting,
09:46will be after that.
09:47Our charter of demand,
09:50yesterday,
09:51we told verbally,
09:52because the head of our Negotiating Committee,
09:55Mr. Umar Ayub,
09:56was not present.
09:57He was present in the Peshawar High Court
09:59regarding his bail.
10:00So,
10:01this would have been a non-issued action by us,
10:04that in the absence of the head of the Negotiating Committee,
10:08we would have given the in-writing draft there.
10:10From our side,
10:11that draft,
10:12Mr. Umar Ayub has to handover.
10:13So,
10:14that is why we decided
10:15that we will handover on the 2nd.
10:16Okay.
10:17And sir,
10:18but now,
10:19we met yesterday,
10:20so the date of the next meeting is 2nd.
10:22Now,
10:23if it is 2nd,
10:24then if the date has come,
10:25now we will meet on 16th January,
10:26then we will meet on 12th February,
10:27then it will be 2025.
10:30No, Mr. Waseem,
10:31I will tell you a reason for that.
10:33The reason for the 2nd date was that
10:36on 25th,
10:37it is Quaid-e-Azam Day and Christmas,
10:40it was a holiday.
10:41After that,
10:42on 27th,
10:43it is the anniversary of Respected Benazir Bhutto.
10:45For this reason,
10:46the 2nd date was fixed,
10:48so that all these events get out of the way.
10:50The Iraqis of the Government Committee were not available.
10:53And the meetings that will take place from the 2nd date,
10:56the meetings of the Negotiating Committee,
10:58will take place continuously.
11:00There will be no gap in that.
11:02Okay,
11:03okay,
11:04alright.
11:05And if I say this,
11:06will it be right or wrong,
11:07Mr. Amit,
11:08that it is not possible for you to agree on anything
11:10other than the release of Mr. Khan.
11:15Yes, Mr. Waseem,
11:16when we talk about the release of Mr. Khan,
11:18then one more thing needs to be understood.
11:20We are not talking about the release of Mr. Khan
11:22under any deal or by forgiving the cases.
11:26Our point of view is that
11:28when Mr. Khan was bailed out in almost all the cases
11:31about a month ago,
11:34and after the release of him,
11:36Mr. Khan was to be released,
11:38then the government took up the case again in a bogus case,
11:43took out an FIR from it,
11:45and took Mr. Khan's remand in it.
11:47We want Mr. Khan's release in a legal and legal way,
11:52through a deal or by forgiving the cases.
11:55That is done by the court.
11:56There are courts in legal and legal terms.
11:58The government does not do that.
12:00You see, sir,
12:01if Mr. Khan has been bailed out in all the cases,
12:05then to put him in a new case again,
12:08this is also political victimization
12:10and shows your bad intention.
12:12We are talking about eliminating that victimization
12:14and bad intention,
12:16so that Mr. Khan comes out of the courts in a fair way, sir.
12:20That is, the government should stop the appeal of new cases,
12:24and the courts should decide according to the rest of the courts.
12:28Am I right?
12:29Yes, absolutely.
12:31Thank you very much, sir.
12:32Thank you very much.
12:33Mr. Hamid Udda was talking about the Negotiating Committee.
12:37Moving forward,
12:38because there are a lot of questions.
12:40Will the negotiation be successful or unsuccessful?
12:41Is there pressure from the US?
12:42Is it coming or not?
12:43There have been so many statements from the military courts.
12:45Europe, Union, Britain, America.
12:46What about this?
12:47Will Mr. Khan be released on the arrival of Donald Trump or not?
12:49There are a lot of things.
12:50So, to know the answers to this,
12:52let's go to our senior journalists and commentators.
12:56I am very grateful.
12:57My brother, Mr. Athar Kazmi is with us.
12:59Of course, he needs no introduction.
13:01He is a very dear friend of ours.
13:03He has come to the program for the first time.
13:05So, a special thank you and welcome.
13:07Mr. Mohsin Beg is with us.
13:09He is also a regular journalist.
13:11He has been very close to Mr. Imran Khan for a long time.
13:15And some of our other friends will also join us.
13:17I am very grateful to all of them.
13:18Sir, let's start from here.
13:20Mr. Mohsin Beg, thank you very much for your time.
13:22You tell us, in your opinion,
13:24will the negotiation process lead to a result
13:28that the PTI gets space for?
13:31Or will it not happen?
13:35Thank you very much.
13:36Mr. Badami, there are two things that need to be considered.
13:39One is to sit at the negotiating table,
13:42to form committees with the government
13:44or with the political parties in the government.
13:50There is no doubt about this.
13:52After a long time, the PTI has become a part of the political process.
13:56But the other aspect of this is that
13:58the government and the other political parties
14:01that are currently in the government alliance
14:05and on the other side,
14:07the members of the PTI's negotiating committee
14:11and those who were sent,
14:13both have the authority
14:17because the PTI's position is that
14:20we have to get relief and deal from the establishment.
14:25And the government's position is that
14:29this negotiating committee
14:31may not have the authority.
14:34And in simple words,
14:37one is the Dishian establishment
14:41because they are the party
14:43and the other party is in jail.
14:46So I don't think this committee
14:48will be able to get a fruitful result.
14:53Mr. Mohsin, the answer to this is that
14:56if there was no consent from there,
14:59then the government committee would not have been formed
15:02and would not have been formed.
15:04So this means that
15:05the establishment is negotiating
15:07through the politicians.
15:10Otherwise, they wouldn't have sat down and reached this far.
15:14Look, the other aspect of this is that
15:17if there was no consent from the government,
15:20then this committee wouldn't have been formed.
15:22And the committee wouldn't have sat down.
15:24So I am saying that
15:26at the end of the day,
15:27if they have to ask Pindi
15:29and they have to ask Hidayala Jail,
15:31then what decision will this committee be able to make?
15:34Sir, it is not possible that
15:36Mr. Khan comes out and
15:38DG ISI sits in front and talks.
15:40So both are talking to their own people.
15:42I don't know how to take an innocent question on this.
15:44So this is not possible.
15:45If there is ever going to be a conversation,
15:47then it has to be like this.
15:49No, I would like to say for your information,
15:52I have said that it is a very good thing
15:54to sit across the table
15:56and start a conversation.
15:58But the demands that will be from here or there,
16:03it is difficult to give and take on them
16:07and reach a conclusion.
16:09But this should continue.
16:11Somewhere in the future,
16:13maybe it will come to a common point.
16:17Like I heard,
16:19they were saying that
16:21the release,
16:23and you were also saying that
16:25it has to be from the court and there are cases.
16:27Naturally,
16:29they are getting relief from the court.
16:31And if they want to move forward with the political process,
16:36they are present in the parliament.
16:38And if they want to establish a working relationship with the government,
16:42they can do it through the establishment.
16:45So I think this is a very good thing.
16:48But it depends on how strong their demands are.
16:52Right.
16:53And how strong they are.
16:55Nothing has been made clear on that yet.
16:58Maybe it will happen in the future.
17:00Yes, sir.
17:01Muneeb Farooq Sahib is also with us.
17:03Athar Bhai has also joined us.
17:05If this is accepted,
17:07or if this is said,
17:08maybe you also have an opinion,
17:09I am not sure,
17:10that on the basis of these negotiations,
17:13it would be wrong to say that
17:14the establishment has deviated from its opinion on Mr. Khan.
17:17They had exactly the same opinion,
17:19i.e. pardon on 9th May and everything else.
17:21If that is the case,
17:23then why did they let the process of negotiations be facilitated?
17:27It is not possible that the establishment says,
17:30that he is a traitor,
17:31and he is an enemy of the country,
17:33and no one should dare to sit with him.
17:34Still, he sits with him.
17:35It is not possible.
17:36So that is why,
17:37it is necessary to clarify that
17:38somewhere or the other,
17:39they have deviated from their opinion.
17:40That is why all this mess has been created.
17:42Is it right to interpret this?
17:43Or do you think this interpretation is not right?
17:45Look, there is no difference in this.
17:47I think their opinion is still the same.
17:49Is the situation the same?
17:51This is a big question.
17:53Is it necessary to change some things with the changing circumstances?
17:56Maybe someone is thinking about this.
17:58In your program,
17:59last time,
18:00Mr. Muneeb was also there.
18:01And at the end,
18:02you asked us a question,
18:03that will there be a voice from America?
18:05And Mr. Muneeb said,
18:06he doesn't think so.
18:07And I said,
18:08that you will see in the next 2-3 weeks,
18:10that there will be a lot of voices,
18:12and the realities will change.
18:13So the voices that are coming now,
18:15their magnitude can increase further
18:17in the next 3-4 weeks.
18:20So looking at all these things,
18:22I think it suits everyone,
18:24that we take our matters to Pakistan in a better way.
18:29But there is no change in this,
18:31that there is no soft corner in relation to Mr. Khan.
18:34It can be a compulsion.
18:36It can be a compulsion of the situation.
18:38But nothing will happen happily.
18:40If there is a nod from somewhere,
18:42then the government is also sitting with Mr. Khan.
18:45Earlier, he also used to say,
18:46that if we ask for forgiveness, we will sit.
18:48So these things are moving forward.
18:51But I agree with Mr. Baig.
18:53As a result of all these actions,
18:55I don't see any result coming out of it.
18:58Oh, very interesting.
18:59And if I,
19:00I will ask the same question to Mr. Fahad Hussain.
19:02Sir, can you hear me?
19:03Sir, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
19:04Yes, Mr. Baig.
19:06Sir, this negotiation process,
19:09whatever is happening with America,
19:11we will keep the next round on it.
19:12You can comment on it later.
19:14But in all this,
19:16the opinion of both the guests,
19:18Mr. Athar and Mr. Mohsin,
19:20that nothing like this will come out,
19:22which will change the situation for PTI,
19:24for PTI.
19:25Do you also think so?
19:29Look, Mr. Hussain,
19:30I believe that these talks are very important,
19:33so that the temperature comes down a bit.
19:35And it is possible that
19:37some compromise solution comes out of it.
19:41But,
19:42through these negotiations,
19:44the big conflict we have at the moment,
19:48the political issue,
19:50whether it will be solved in the government or in the establishment,
19:54I don't think so.
19:55It won't be possible.
19:56Because the lines are completely closed on both sides.
19:59And from the establishment,
20:01I don't see any indication
20:03that they are ready to make a fundamental change.
20:07Yes, it is possible that
20:09some compromise solution comes out of it,
20:12so that the situation cools down a bit.
20:14And then it is easy to find another compromise solution.
20:19In my opinion,
20:20this can be a start,
20:22but it won't be the end of it,
20:25which I think Pakistan wants.
20:28So, Mr. Fahad,
20:29knowing Mr. Khan,
20:31isn't there a good chance
20:33that when there will be 3-4 sessions in these conditions,
20:37and it is obvious that PTI will not get a big relief,
20:40will Mr. Khan make a tweet one day?
20:42Will he give a statement that will spoil everything?
20:46Look,
20:47I think this can happen.
20:49But at the same time,
20:51both sides are buying time.
20:54After what happened in November,
20:56PTI didn't have much of an option.
20:58And the government doesn't have much to lose in this anyway.
21:02So, I think,
21:03according to you,
21:04Pakistan is also looking at how international pressure develops,
21:07how things change,
21:08what happens after Mr. Trump's inauguration in about 3 weeks.
21:12So, they are buying time.
21:15Even if there is a little compromise,
21:17people who are in prison,
21:19they get some relief from there.
21:21So, I don't think that Pakistan should give a statement
21:23that it is time well spent for the next round.
21:26Okay.
21:27And Munir sir,
21:28when he met Barrister Gauhar sir today,
21:30he said that there should be a time frame.
21:33There should be a discussion in that.
21:35So, again,
21:36if in the next few sessions,
21:38the matter is not fruitful,
21:40then it is not that Mr. Khan gets frustrated
21:42and spoils everything.
21:43Or he might think that
21:44the international situation is changing.
21:4620th January is coming up.
21:47500 tweets have come up.
21:49Pull it out.
21:50And take something from here,
21:53give something.
21:54And ultimately find your way.
21:55And also succeed in finding your way.
21:57Is this scenario more likely,
21:58which I told you later,
21:59or is the previous scenario more likely?
22:01In your opinion.
22:04Mr. Malhani,
22:05the request is that
22:06the current situation,
22:09Mr. Imran Khan's, frankly,
22:12his mindset,
22:13his situation,
22:15he has been operating well from today.
22:17He feels that
22:20his only option is to assert.
22:24If he asserts
22:26and the situation is in his favour,
22:29then the matter is different.
22:30But frankly,
22:31I don't see this happening
22:33because either the establishment
22:35officially creates a situation
22:39where Mr. Imran Khan
22:41officially gets better
22:44in Mr. Imran Khan's affairs.
22:47If this does not happen,
22:49then I think this is such a fight
22:52that will continue.
22:53Frankly, I don't see
22:54any turnaround in this right now.
22:56Keep this in mind
22:58that Mr. Imran Khan is also playing
23:00a game of nerves right now.
23:01He thinks that
23:02a time will come
23:03when everyone will concede.
23:04But what is out of the syllabus
23:06for Mr. Imran Khan
23:08is that Mr. Imran Khan
23:10has no idea
23:12what the army is thinking right now.
23:14And look, the army essentially
23:16runs on the orders of any
23:18head of the army of Pakistan
23:20or in relation to their affairs.
23:22So, the things that are going on right now,
23:24the affairs that are going on,
23:26I frankly don't see
23:28any turnaround in it.
23:30And the policy of Pakistan
23:32and the policy of Pakistan's army,
23:34Pakistan's establishment
23:36towards Mr. Imran Khan,
23:38that has not changed even a bit
23:40even in the past two years.
23:42And I have always been saying this,
23:44I have always said this in front of you,
23:46that when that policy will shift,
23:48it will not be so major,
23:50it will not be so subtle,
23:51that you will see
23:52that Mr. Imran Khan
23:54has started getting his dividends.
23:56The rest of the things...
23:58So, in today's discussion,
24:00is the possibility of going to the army court
24:02the same as it was two weeks ago?
24:06The thing is,
24:08Mr. Badami,
24:10I think the situation is the same
24:12and the situation is probably going in the same direction.
24:14But for this,
24:16a very heavy state capital
24:18will be required for Mr. Imran Khan
24:20to try in the army courts.
24:22Can anyone use that state capital
24:24or not?
24:26This is yet to be seen.
24:28But the precedent is at least being set.
24:30And see, when the apparently anonymous people,
24:32that is, all those who have been punished,
24:34none of them are famous,
24:36when the European Union, Britain and America
24:38came on it, then it means that
24:40Mr. Khan has to be taken to the army court.
24:42So, we will have to look at its international aspect as well.
24:44Yes, we will have to see.
24:46And you cannot keep many things in isolation.
24:48You cannot do this
24:50that you are in the world,
24:52but you are not a part of the people.
24:54The world is watching you.
24:56The world is tweeting,
24:58issuing statements.
25:00But the atmosphere here
25:02is that this
25:04precedent has to be set.
25:06At least there will be no compromise on this.
25:08See, if Mr. Imran Khan
25:10is vulnerable, then Pakistan's
25:12establishment position
25:14has exposed him to the world.
25:16Now, it is not possible that one fine day
25:18in the morning, we will go like this.
25:20We have foregone what happened on 9th May.
25:22If they have taken up a position,
25:24then they should justify it.
25:26And if they have said that
25:28they have irrefutable evidence,
25:30then it is fine. They should come forward
25:32and people should be exposed to them.
25:34So, let me tell you one thing.
25:36I want to ask this angle to everyone.
25:38How important is 20th January?
25:40See, Mr. Athar was reminding us.
25:42A few weeks ago, we were talking.
25:44If I recall correctly, Mr. Athar said
25:46that your opinion was that
25:48such pressure will not come from America.
25:50Mr. Athar's opinion was different.
25:52A few days later, we talked again.
25:54Without exaggeration, 25-30 tweets
25:56have come. Maybe more than this.
25:58Only one from Richard Grenell.
26:00He has said more.
26:02So, now we have all the reasons to believe
26:04that Trump administration
26:06will be surprised
26:08if he becomes President
26:10and he does not use his pressure tactic.
26:12Because so many tweets have come.
26:14So, how important is this matter?
26:16Today, it is not a scene
26:18that it was three weeks ago.
26:20Will such pressure not come from America?
26:22See, whether
26:24there will be pressure or not,
26:26if you keep both things in mind,
26:28Mr. Madami.
26:30I have already mentioned the possibility.
26:32See, the possibility is of anything.
26:34But you have to see
26:36what is happening in Pakistan.
26:38If someone thinks
26:40that the positioning
26:42will be that
26:44phone calls or pressure will increase
26:46and after 20th January,
26:48things will be very different.
26:50Then we will see again
26:52if such a date is made.
26:54And the date will really make itself.
26:56But the position here at the moment
26:58is not such
27:00that it will be 20th January
27:02and a call will come
27:04and everything will go in Mr. Imran Khan's favor
27:06and the doors of Imran Khan's jail will open.
27:08What I feel on ground is
27:10that the convictions of Imran Khan
27:12can open a way
27:14for Mr. Imran Khan
27:16and maybe
27:18some things can be done
27:20on the appeal stage.
27:22But if we assume
27:24that it has already been made
27:26that it is only 20th
27:28and after 20th the mountain will break
27:30and we will be the one
27:32to accept it.
27:34So at least at this time
27:36such a position
27:38neither I can see from the government
27:40nor frankly any establishment
27:42is giving this position that
27:44we will have to wait and see.
27:46Sir, let me take a break.
27:48We will continue this discussion after the break.
27:54Prime Minister, I welcome you again.
27:56All the commentators are with us.
27:58Mr. Mohsin Beg, we don't say that
28:00if Trump comes on 20th, then on 21st
28:02Imran Khan would have been released.
28:04But again, based on whatever has happened
28:06in the past two weeks,
28:08so many tweets have come.
28:10Now a tweet is coming every few hours.
28:12I have responded to that
28:14of a representative there.
28:16He said that you didn't speak at that time
28:18when we were being abused
28:20and he told his whole story.
28:22So after all this,
28:24don't you think that after 20th January
28:26such a process will definitely start
28:28as a result of which
28:30in the coming months
28:32if not in weeks,
28:34something will be softened for Mr. Khan
28:36to say the least.
28:38You are saying that this is completely irrelevant.
28:40We all know this.
28:42Our economy is on the ventilator.
28:44If the US comes, it will be a disaster.
28:46It will be so easy to ignore
28:48that we don't want it to happen.
28:50The mostly decisions of PTI
28:52are not based on Pakistan.
28:54They are given to them
28:56from outside.
28:58They are put in their mouths
29:00so that they can speak.
29:02All those states are against Pakistan.
29:04You can check.
29:06You can do a little research.
29:08The aim is that
29:10there is involvement
29:12for the US citizens
29:14in different countries.
29:16There is a lady here
29:18who is the head of
29:20the Jail Reforms Committee.
29:22Khadija Shah.
29:24She was also inside on 9th May.
29:26After 8 months,
29:28the Secretary of State
29:30Blinken called her
29:32and she was released.
29:34She is still very active.
29:36She said she will not
29:38take part in politics.
29:40Similarly,
29:42because she was
29:44an American national,
29:46she got a call.
29:48Country to country,
29:50government to government,
29:52this pressure is not like
29:54one person is in criminal cases
29:56and for that,
29:58it can be anyone.
30:00You can name everyone
30:02who went to the jail.
30:04You can't debate
30:06whether the cases are right or wrong.
30:08But for this,
30:10if you say there are so many tweets
30:12and this will come,
30:14then I think
30:16the state
30:18and the statesmen
30:20should make a proper
30:22plan.
30:24If there is so much pressure
30:26to release this lady
30:28and get her out of jail,
30:30then I think the laws of the state
30:32should be the same
30:34for the common man.
30:36Like for this boy.
30:38So, I don't think
30:40you are right. Muneeb was also right.
30:42This is an
30:44independent nuclear state.
30:46There is no money, there is an economy.
30:48Such people have put this country
30:50in such a state that
30:52our state is so weak
30:54that anyone can tweet
30:56or make statements.
30:58Now, the one who will take
31:00responsibility for this,
31:02he is also their lobbyist.
31:04Israel is not behind us
31:06from today.
31:08In 1948,
31:10the first Prime Minister of Israel
31:12gave a statement against Pakistan
31:14that we will be in danger
31:16from this new country,
31:18not from the Arabs.
31:20What was Pakistan in 1948?
31:22We were a population of 4-5 crores,
31:24neither nuclear nor money.
31:26So, they have been behind us since then.
31:28This is right.
31:30This is what you said.
31:32The statements of this level are unprecedented.
31:34Another strange picture
31:36is that what started from here
31:38that we are slaves of America.
31:40Today, the famous people
31:42are attacking the American officials
31:44and complaining
31:46that Trump says this about you,
31:48she says this,
31:50and they are looking at them.
31:52This is absolutely right.
31:54But, if I answer your question,
31:56that if Khadija Shah
31:58has been released on the
32:00intervention of Mr. Blinken,
32:02will Trump not have to
32:04do anything for Mr. Khan?
32:06Badami,
32:08what I was saying to you
32:10that it was their national
32:12and the list of their crimes
32:14was not this,
32:16which is on these two husband and wife.
32:18They planned and
32:20fraud, planned and
32:22stole, planned and
32:24sold these things.
32:26They were in a state of agitation
32:28and it was their national.
32:30They received a phone call,
32:32which no spokesperson
32:34has ever told you on television.
32:36So, the purpose is that
32:38this is a law of land
32:40and the laws of Pakistan.
32:42It is not like
32:44you call and say,
32:46leave it, this is a banana republic.
32:48Although people like Bani
32:50have made it a banana republic.
32:52But,
32:54we have not gone so far
32:56that until you
32:58get rid of the cases,
33:00ok, you are getting bananas,
33:02and let me tell you,
33:04time will prove
33:06how this person is getting bananas
33:08and who is behind it.
33:10Time will tell you this
33:12and I have told people,
33:14ok, our state institutions,
33:16our people,
33:18you know,
33:20if you have a gun,
33:22if you have a gun,
33:24if you have a gun,
33:26if you have a gun,
33:28if you have a gun,
33:30if you have a gun,
33:32if you have a gun,
33:34if you have a gun,
33:36if you have a gun,
33:38if you have a gun,
33:40if you have a gun,
33:42if you have a gun,
33:44if you have a gun,
33:46if you have a gun,
33:48he just wanted me to get bailed
33:50and go to KPK.
33:52Foreigner? You are saying he met a foreigner?
33:54There was a foreigner,
33:56there was,
33:58and I am telling you
34:00on your channel,
34:02whether anyone believes it or not,
34:04but Barrister Gauhar also went with him.
34:06Foreigner, ok.
34:08So, he has been trying to do this deal for a long time.
34:10And this person
34:12is only focused on himself.
34:14Rest,
34:16whether someone dies,
34:18whether someone lives or not,
34:20this is what he wants,
34:22as far as I am concerned.
34:24Ok, Mr. Athar,
34:26this is the whole perspective.
34:28Do you think this is right?
34:30In response to this,
34:32you can also say that
34:34you can count 10 events,
34:36many are coming to my mind,
34:38where the US has intervened,
34:40and in that intervention,
34:42a lot of events have happened.
34:44The US has gone so far
34:46that even if it wants,
34:48the state can move half a step back
34:50or 10 steps back,
34:52because of various reasons.
34:54So, what will you say?
34:56Will it have to move?
34:58What is your opinion?
35:00Mr. Waseem, there are two things in this.
35:02One thing is that
35:04we are a part of this international community.
35:06You also mentioned earlier
35:08that there was a voice from the EU,
35:10from the UK,
35:12even the Biden administration
35:14issued a message through Matthew Miller
35:16the other day,
35:18in which they also expressed their concerns.
35:20So, one problem is that
35:22if there is a voice from anywhere
35:24in favor of the government of Pakistan,
35:26then maybe they should get a statement
35:28from the president of Belarus,
35:30so that maybe internationally
35:32he can become the president
35:34of the world,
35:36which is not considered a legitimate president.
35:38The second aspect is that
35:40what will be the intervention of America?
35:42The thesis presented by Mohsen Beg
35:44has a problem in it.
35:46The problem is that
35:48what we are doing with the law,
35:50Khadija Shah, who was driving
35:52the car, Andaleeb Abbas was standing
35:54on the roof of that car.
35:56So, where did Andaleeb Abbas go?
35:58Murad Raas, who was told
36:00that he had so many calls,
36:02IG held a press conference,
36:04where did he go?
36:06So, the problem is that there is no law
36:08here. Here, in a way,
36:10events are being used for political
36:12scoring or political purposes.
36:14So, that is why there is an issue.
36:16If things are going according
36:18to the law here,
36:20the way you punished Imran Khan
36:22by running cases in jail,
36:24later in the High Court,
36:26then what was said about that case?
36:28So, this is the real issue.
36:30So, that's why our own leg is weak,
36:32on which we are standing.
36:34If everything was going according
36:36to the law here,
36:38then we would have won.
36:40So, you think it will make a difference?
36:42Of course, it will make a difference.
36:44I don't mean to be in a hurry,
36:46but it is not possible that
36:48we will be cut off from the world.
36:50If it doesn't make a difference,
36:52then if this kind of intervention
36:54is being made by the United States,
36:56then they should demarch.
36:58They should call the British ambassador
37:00and the American ambassador.
37:02Both governments have issued statements.
37:04Will there be an intervention
37:06from the highest level?
37:08Look, the way the friends of the government
37:10make statements here,
37:12there was news earlier,
37:14and because of that,
37:16whatever happened is in front of us.
37:18Now there is Tulsi Sahiba,
37:20the kind of unreasonable thing
37:22that has been said about her,
37:24she must also be looking at this matter.
37:26So, Mashallah, the government
37:28itself will create a reason,
37:30and you will see that something
37:32will happen.
38:02Final word, Muneeb sahab,
38:04in this regard,
38:06post-20th January?
38:08Look,
38:10the people
38:12who are
38:14protesting,
38:16the people who are
38:18protesting,
38:20the people who are
38:22protesting,
38:24the people who are
38:26protesting,
38:28the people who are
38:30protesting,
38:32Look,
38:34as I said,
38:36the position,
38:38the government is
38:40irrelevant,
38:42the government is a beneficiary in this whole matter.
38:44I always say the division was PTI
38:46and Emirat Khan
38:48sahib and establishment,
38:50now to see what is the position
38:52of the Pakistan establishment,
38:54they have taken their position,
38:56and now on 21st December,
38:58that until justice is not done, the mastermind should not be released or we will not let him go.
39:02So many words are being said.
39:04According to him, the misguided politician and mastermind is Mr. Imran Khan.
39:09So now if we have to see that if they want to release Mr. Imran Khan under American pressure,
39:15then keep in mind that the entire 9th of May case revolves around Mr. Imran Khan.
39:23If Mr. Imran Khan gets any relief from foreign intervention,
39:27then the entire 9th of May case will be buried in the ground.
39:31Because the principal accused, whom you believe to be responsible for 9th of May,
39:35if you give them a concession and release them,
39:38then the situation will go in the same direction.
39:41But let me tell you one thing.
39:43Let me tell you one thing briefly.
39:46There are a lot of things that are developing,
39:49which I have not seen.
39:50Something is coming, something is going on.
39:52Let me tell you this again.
39:54The release of Mr. Imran Khan is due after these convictions.
39:59Regardless of whether America interferes or not,
40:03that logic will make it very relevant after the conviction.
40:07Right, sir. Thank you very much.
40:09Muneeb bhai, thank you very much.
40:10Muneeb sahib, Athar sahib, Mohsin sahib, Fahad sahib,
40:13thank you all very much.
40:14We will meet again tomorrow. Allah Hafiz.