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00:00here on Willard and Tibbs. We're joined by Odyssey NFL insider Mark Schlaer, host of the Stinkin'
00:05Truth podcast. Insider calls are brought to you by Hellman's Real Mayonnaise. Mayo Game Day,
00:10be delicious. Happy New Year, Stink. How are you? I'm doing great. How are you guys doing?
00:16We're doing good. We know you called the game and I know this was a weird one and the Niners had a
00:20lot of their backups in and whatnot, but seeing them in person and watching them complete a 6-11
00:27campaign and also talk to the people in the building, I would imagine, were you able to
00:32kind of gather everything or anything as to why this just went wrong? Yeah, well, I think there's,
00:38I mean, obviously injuries and everybody gets injured, but a lot of injuries. Talking to Chris
00:45Forrester, your offensive line coach, he's one of the best run coach slash, you know,
00:48run game coordinators, O-line coaches and six different guys on the O-line went on IR.
00:53Um, you know, when you're playing backups, especially at that position, um, and you know,
01:00it's interesting how the, how the league operates in, in today's game. You know, you've got what,
01:08eight, 10 guys, 12 guys that you pay 75% of your salary, 80% of your salary to,
01:15and then the rest of everybody else is, you know, fighting over the leftovers.
01:18And ultimately when those guys get hurt or those guys play hurt or those guys aren't up to snuff,
01:24um, and you have to replace them with backups in today's game, it's just, it's just different.
01:30Like when I came into the national football league and I'm playing for the Washington Redskins,
01:34um, every one of our backup offensive linemen had four years of starting in the league at some
01:40other place and they came in. And so when that guy, when somebody went down, somebody came in
01:46for the most part and had, you know, a lot of time, a lot of service in the national football league.
01:51And it's just the way rosters are constructed. We pay so much money to the superstars
01:56that we try to cut corners and save money by keeping guys on our roster that really don't
02:01have a lot of experience or really shouldn't be playing in the national football league.
02:05So there's an issue there. I think the other thing, you know, frankly is three straight years
02:11to a Superbowl or an NFC championship. I think that's a tired mentally and physically tired
02:17football team. You're playing another, you know, four weeks, three games, whatever it is
02:22over the course of three years, it wears on you. And I think you saw a team that just got tired
02:28and physically tired and mentally tired and the whole nine yards. So, you know, I think it was a
02:33lot to overcome there. And, you know, I, I look for them to bounce back to rebound and be right
02:38back to being one of the top teams in the NFC next year. And facing the last place schedule
02:43next year and also taking on the South in the AFC and the NFC should help unless those teams
02:48do get a lot better. I want to ask you about the depth stinking, particularly the offensive line
02:54and the running back position. When you look at what this team was putting out there toward the
02:59end of the year, is that where they started to fall short, just not having enough good
03:03quality NFL players on the O line? Yeah, that's a huge, I mean, that's huge. You know,
03:08when you're starting a left tackle who was on the practice squad of Arizona, you know, a week
03:14earlier, that that's, that's hard. Like that's hard to do that. And then you start to think about,
03:21you know, when you, when you have that situation, then you have to understand that we got to
03:25mitigate the potential issues there. So what are we going to do from a protection standpoint?
03:31What kind of plays are we going to call? How much does it limit your playbook when you're
03:35playing with backups? How many things can you do? How many things do those guys understand?
03:39How many things can those guys execute? You know, so instead of attacking your opponent offense,
03:44or, you know, as an offense, instead of attacking your opponent, which you're normally trying to do
03:49half the time, you're just trying to mitigate potential disaster. So you're not going after
03:54somebody's weaknesses as much as you are just trying to protect your own weaknesses. And so
03:59all that, all that stuff lays into it, all that stuff plays into it. You know, I know that it's
04:04disappointing, but at the same time, I still watch them on film and still see what they're capable of
04:12and think, boy, they, they, you know, they get healthy and they get that right. They're going
04:16to be a good football team. I think we were just debating the merits of Dre Greenlaw going forward.
04:22He's a free agent. And so it's hard to figure out based on the injury situation. And, and when he
04:27came back, you know, he, he kind of gets hurt again, but he's been such a great player as
04:32someone who's had 4 million surgeries like yourself. Can, can you speak to what that's like
04:38when, when, when you have a major injury and, and, and can you come back and be yourself again?
04:45Yeah. Can you come back and be yourself? I think that's the interesting question. One of the things
04:50I always tell guys, you know, and I did occasionally, you know, people reach out to me,
04:55agents reach out to me or players reach out to me that have had some injury issues.
05:00And one of the things I always tell guys is that you've got to create a new 100%.
05:06And that new 100%, maybe 80% of what it used to be, but that's your new 100%. And then you've got
05:13to just go, I'm good enough to be really good. And, you know, and have the challenge of playing
05:19that way. But I see a lot of guys, or I think, you know, this way that a lot of people will,
05:26I'm not quite 100% myself right out of a job. And when you're cleared to play, you're healthy
05:34enough to play, it may not be a hundred percent and it may not be 90%. It may be 75%, but you got
05:42to figure out how to play what, you know, what your new parameters are. It's 75%. You got to be
05:47able to go out there and not only play, you know, not only start, but go out there and play and play
05:52well. And so I think that's the challenge mentally of getting over that and, and being okay saying,
05:58Hey man, I'm 80, 85% of what I used to be, but I'm still, I'm still really good. Even if it's 85%.
06:05And that's where your mental growth of the game really starts to take over. So as you lose
06:11athleticism and as you lose ability, you better be gaining those mental edges and how I can cheat
06:18this game to, to produce and how I can, you know, how I can study and how I can see things
06:24through a different lens. And so there's a lot that goes into being able to play hurt. I've
06:28always said, Hey man, not only do you have to play hurt in this league, but you have to play injured.
06:33And more importantly, you have to play well hurt injured. And it was one thing over the course of
06:39my career. I could always do, I could always go out feeling like garbage and being injured and
06:44still find a way to whip your ass. And that was, you know, that's a badge of honor and that's
06:48something that I truly embraced. And that's something that you've got to be able to do.
06:54Yeah. And it's something Fred Warner did all year long when he was playing hurt and he probably was
06:58playing injured. And you had me thinking about Brock Purdy when you were talking about the
07:02mental aspect, because I was watching him all year, Mark. And it seemed like he was playing
07:07with a little bit of the thought in the back of his mind, like he had to do something special
07:12to try to earn the contract. How hard is it to be in a spot like that with big money awaiting
07:18and still go out there and, and trust the process and still play the way you're supposed to play?
07:23Yeah. You know, I mean, I think I ultimately it's easy to say, well, you just gotta, you know,
07:28put it to the side and not think about it, you know? And, um, and it's just not realistic. You're,
07:34you're human, you know? And it's, it's interesting. Every guy is different. I always, you know,
07:38I always kind of marvel at the guys who have a lot of things going on in their lives, a lot of
07:42issues or whatever, they can use the field as a sanctuary, you know, and just forget about problems,
07:47forget about issues and just go out there and play their butts off. Um, I wasn't one of those guys,
07:53man, things had to be right. Like I, you know, I couldn't have a lot of, a lot of strife in my life
07:58or anything. I think things had to be good for me because, you know, I wore that stuff on my sleeve.
08:03So I just think it's, that's a really hard thing to do. And you think about those things,
08:08and you want to be perfect. You want to go out there and earn that. You want to,
08:12you know, show the organization that you're worth it. And, um, and ultimately I think Brock
08:17Hardy played pretty well considering all the injuries up front, the injuries to all the
08:22running backs that, you know, that the changes you have to make offensively as a coaching staff,
08:28because you can't do the things that you're normally capable of doing. Like all those
08:32things, you limit your playbook, all that stuff. So I think ultimately he played really well.
08:37And, you know, and, and again, he's not like, he's up for a contract renegotiation,
08:43but he still has another year left on his contract. So you're going to have to come
08:46to grips with, you're probably not going to get top dollar. You're probably not going to
08:50break the bank or, you know, or, or set the market, but you can still make generational
08:55money. So you've got to come to grips with that, um, about getting a new contract done.
09:00Insider calls are brought to you by Hellman's Real Mayonnaise. You can purchase Hellman's
09:04at your local Walmart, Kroger, or grocery store to add extra deliciousness and creamy
09:09flavor to your game day dishes. This football season, we're hanging with stink Mark Schlereth
09:14right here on Willard and dibs 95, seven, the game, Mark, how did you view the Debo Samuel
09:19a year? And I think the two, the two answers seem to be, he's lost a step or, um, the way
09:27he's being used, uh, you know, defense is sort of caught up to it. How did you see it?
09:33I saw it as, um, one, a guy that had some nagging injuries throughout the course of the season that
09:40really bothered him to Debo's superpowers. And I'm a great route runner. Debo's superpower is
09:48I go out, catch the ball and run you over. Like, so for him to be an incredibly effective
09:56football player, you got to get the ball in his hands and the way they got the ball in his hands
10:01over the last few years is run the snot out of the ball, set it up, open up that play action,
10:07give him the ball in space with nobody around him. And he's going to break tackles and make
10:12big time plays. Those things got shut down this year. Those things with the multiple different
10:17backs, you don't have Christian McCaffrey as a threat. You don't like, you know, you like
10:22Jordan Mason, wasn't the greatest pass catcher out of the, out of the backfield.
10:26You used five different, you know, five different backs over the course of the year.
10:30Um, so you never really, never really were able to do consistently get, um, into,
10:38into the plays and into the playbook or it really where Debo Samuel just excels. He's like,
10:44he's not an X or just lining up over here and running this great route. I mean, he just uses
10:48his body. He's so strong at the point of the catch. Um, and he's just, I mean, he's a pal.
10:54Shanahan is, is, is described to me on more than one occasion as a fullback that happens to play
11:00wide receiver. That's like, that's who he is with his body type and the way he plays.
11:06So when you look at ways to get him into that spot, did you look at the team this year and
11:10think that it was the scheme that was unable to get him into those spots that we've seen in the
11:16past? Or is it more just a by-product of not having McCaffrey and not having Iuke and so
11:20defenses were able to key on him much more readily? Yeah, I think it's the latter. I mean,
11:26you don't have Iuke, you know, Iuke is a legit threat out there, right? And he's, he, he, you
11:32know, he's a guy that you've got to contend with. And so, you know, he ties up more people in
11:37coverage. You're, you're, you're less likely to just single him up. You're more likely to have,
11:44you know, somebody over the top or, you know, maybe a safety over and, and, you know,
11:48swoop a linebacker underneath or something of that nature where you're trying to take him away
11:52from that. You know, I, I love Juwan Jennings, but he's not the same guy out there at X. He doesn't
11:59do that for you. So yeah, I think a lot of it had to do with just the way, you know, the season
12:05played out. I don't think it's like, you know, I, I hear these ridiculous things about, well,
12:10Kyle Shanahan, you know, that everybody's catching up to his system and no, that's not it.
12:15It's that you didn't have the same horses. You didn't have the opposite line. You broke down
12:20with the running back position. You don't have a running back that motions outside the numbers and
12:25threatens you like a wide receiver. Like there, there's a lot of different things that went on
12:29there. And it's funny sitting there talking to, you know, defense coordinator for Arizona,
12:34the Cardinals, the governor, Nick Wallace. I mean, he will tell you it's the toughest
12:40Kyle Shanahan is the toughest coordinator, toughest play caller that I have to, that I
12:46have to face every single year. And as a matter of fact, before I became a play caller, before
12:51it became a D coordinator, when I was, you know, when I was in quality control guy in the off
12:57season, I used to study the Niners and then make up game plans, like entire game plans, how I would
13:03do this or how I try to do this. Like that's the kind of respect that Kyle Shanahan has around the
13:09national football league. And that's not unique to Nick Wallace. That's everybody you talk to.
13:14So, you know, I mean, it, it is one of those things. It's an unfortunate year. You'll be,
13:18you won six games. It's not what you wanted to have happen, but there are, I'm not trying to
13:24make excuses. I'm just trying to give you reasons why things happen. Can you expand on that a little
13:29bit? When you have a conversation with defensive coordinator and he says Kyle Shanahan is the
13:34hardest play caller to prepare for why, what, what, what is that that makes it so difficult?
13:43He does a great job of attacking your weaknesses, a great job of setting up big plays off the things
13:51he calls and a great job of adjusting to anything you give him. So like he's got a photographic
13:59memory of, you know, of what you're doing, what you're trying to take away and what works
14:06against that. And, you know, ultimately he's got such an unbelievable knowledge of what you're
14:12doing on the defensive side, what your rules are on the defensive side. Like Kyle Shanahan operates
14:19an offense as though he were a defensive coordinator. I believe he could probably call
14:23a game as a defensive coordinator without an issue. He's so versed in what you're doing
14:29and so good at attacking the things that you do well, the things that you do poorly. And so like
14:36I always say, it's not just guys who call plays as you call an offense, like guys who understand
14:42what they're setting up, why they're setting something up, what they're going to get,
14:46how they're going to attack it. And his dad was the same way. Um, you know, his dad would sit
14:51there and tell you, this is like, this is the same thing Kyle does. Like, this is what we're
14:56going to run. This is why we're going to run it. This is how it's going to work. And this is
14:59what they're going to give us. And, you know, and then this is, you know, the benefit of doing this
15:05is, you know, is you're going to get, you know, an explosive off the play action off of this,
15:10and you're going to get a big run and you're going to get a catch. And like he's always been
15:14able to do that. And we're going to hit them, you know, after we set them up and tenderize
15:17them with this, then we're going to get them over the top of this. And it just ends up,
15:22I can't tell you how many times I've heard Mike Shanahan, when I was playing say,
15:27Oh dude, we're going to run this, you know, X number of times, then we're going to get this
15:30off of it. And then all of a sudden the second quarter comes and you could see it. And he's
15:34like, all right, here we go. We're going to get him on this one. And sure enough, it's wide open.
15:38He did the Superbowl, um, in Superbowl 33, the big, the big play over the top to Rob Smith.
15:44That was set up during the week. We talked about that. We've talked about that during the week.
15:49And, um, and sure enough, like we got them in that position in that defense and
15:55broad Smith goes 80 for a touchdown. It's just, it's just what they do.
16:01And I love the idea of tenderizing. You had me thinking about, uh, dinner tonight and tenderizing
16:06a steak because you're right. The way they do tend to rise and Mark and I were talking before
16:10the show about how they had the number one, most 20 plus yard pass plays in football this year. Yet
16:17they were one of the worst red zone offenses. What do you attribute that fact to the idea that
16:23they got in the red zone and then Kyle and the offense couldn't get it done?
16:28Well, that's again, I would, I would point to personnel. Um, when you get into the red zone,
16:33you know, there, there's so many, I get this. It's always funny to me. You know, I hear
16:38coordinators say, Hey, you know, and you guys have heard this. So eight man front, we didn't
16:43want to bang our head against the wall. We had access to the outside. We're going to throw the
16:47ball in these situations. Right. And I said, okay, well, I always say, okay, well, what are
16:52you going to do when you get inside the 20? Because everything's an eight man for every
16:56matter of fact, everything's a nine man front. So now what, now, what are we going to do?
17:01And teams that know how to run the ball in those situations have great success.
17:09And ultimately when you've got a revolving revolving department store door at the running
17:15back position, and you've got a beat up offensive line and you're not running the ball effectively,
17:21then teams play you different. And then all of a sudden you lose, you know, weapons with,
17:26uh, being out and some of the other things that happen, like it just is, it's different when,
17:31when you've got, you know, when you've got a McCaffrey in your backfield, you've got the
17:36threat of the run and you've got the threat of the past and you've got all these, like you can
17:39dump it off and he could break tackle. It's just different. So there was some, there was some
17:44things that went on there, but I think it boils down to how well you run the ball in the red zone
17:50and how well you set up your, you know, your play action off of that stuff to create a little bit
17:55of space. Cause there's not a lot of space in the red zone. You know, when you run a high,
17:59low combination route, you're trying to separate a defense. It just doesn't separate. Everybody
18:04plays kind of high to low. So being able to run the ball in there, in that area is just imperative
18:10to you having success.
18:13Stink. If I took away the one seeds, who do you think would go to the Superbowl?
18:18Um, I think right now, Baltimore, they've, they've fixed their defense. You know, their
18:25defense was, was atrocious for a long time. They've made some adjustments on the defensive
18:30side of the ball and they're playing really well. Uh, that Hamilton kid is playing. He still plays
18:35a lot of the line of scrimmage, but they've moved him back more to being a free safety.
18:39And, um, and he just erases plays. He's still a great run defender as well.
18:44Uh, I think Humphrey at the, at the, you know, quarterback positions playing great football
18:49right now. And they're just better. They've just gotten a lot better up front. Um, they're
18:53starting to pressure people and, and, um, you know, when they're one-on-ones and do those
18:58things. So they're just playing a lot better there. And then they know how they like one
19:02thing. I think they will not forget this year is how they are built, how they are structured,
19:08their identity. They have got to run the ball both with Lamar and with King Henry. And then,
19:15you know, off of that, they get all those one-on-one opportunities in their drop back game,
19:20all that man stuff, all free access to the outside. And Lamar has just been pinpoint
19:26in that stuff. He's been so good. Um, so like they, like the one thing you can't,
19:32they can't do. If you drop back 40 times, you do like you did in Kansas city, where you gave it
19:38gave last year, you gave your running back six attempts or eight attempts or whatever it was.
19:42Um, I just don't think they're going to fall victim to that again. They are going to run the
19:46ball. They're going to run their team the way they they've run it all season, or at least let
19:51these last six, eight weeks. And they've been exceptional doing it. You like anybody in the NFC
19:56Uh, in the NFC, other than Detroit, I like Philly. Now, again, I think they're the two
20:03best rosters in football. Detroit's been beat up. Anzalone coming back the other night was
20:08big time for them. Uh, he was really, really good. I think Detroit, you can make an argument
20:13has the best roster in football, but you know, um, Jalen hurts still hasn't passed the concussion
20:21So like, that's interesting to me. Like, I think like we all assume he's going to be fine.
20:27I assume he's going to play. I don't think it's going to be an issue, but I don't know.
20:31Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that game's coming up here pretty quick Sunday. Um,
20:37Hey stink. Uh, wonderful having you as always. Wonderful. All season long. Thank you so much.
20:43It's my pleasure, man. Be well. Okay. That was all to see NFL insider,
20:48host of the stinking truth podcast. Insider calls are brought to you by
20:51Hellman's real mayonnaise mail game day. Be delicious.