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(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Maria Memon
Guests:
- Fawad Chaudhry (Senior Leader)
- Mustafa Nawaz Khokhar (Senior Leader)
- Miftah Ismail APP
Backdoor negotiations, Someone happy, someone worried - Maria Memon Analysis
Hakumati Mazakrati Committee Sirf Numaish Hai - Mustafa Nawaz Khokar Shocking Revelations
"Vote Ko Izzat Do Ka Bayania Iqtidar Kay Liye Hawa Hogaya", Mustafa Nawaz Khokhar Raises Big Ques
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Maria Memon
Guests:
- Fawad Chaudhry (Senior Leader)
- Mustafa Nawaz Khokhar (Senior Leader)
- Miftah Ismail APP
Backdoor negotiations, Someone happy, someone worried - Maria Memon Analysis
Hakumati Mazakrati Committee Sirf Numaish Hai - Mustafa Nawaz Khokar Shocking Revelations
"Vote Ko Izzat Do Ka Bayania Iqtidar Kay Liye Hawa Hogaya", Mustafa Nawaz Khokhar Raises Big Ques
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
Category
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NewsTranscript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, I am Maria Meeman, I am with you after the harsh decision of Artipop
00:16Stories.
00:17Now, the negotiations that were supposed to happen between the opposition and the government,
00:20how serious will they be?
00:21And will these negotiations be serious or the hidden negotiations are more common?
00:26But after the punishment of yesterday, is there a deadlock in politics again?
00:30What is the way ahead of the political deadlock?
00:32We will talk about this too.
00:34In the last part of the program, another boat sank, 44 Pakistani people were killed.
00:39Neither did anyone's heart tremble, nor did this road ever close.
00:43We will talk about this in the last part of the program,
00:45for what reasons do Pakistanis leave their country for such dangerous routes?
00:51Let's start.
00:52Yesterday, a decision was made against Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf's head Imran Khan and his wife
00:58on the basis of the £190 million case.
01:0014 years of punishment, 7 years of punishment.
01:02And during this time, we are seeing that the negotiation process is still going on.
01:05The punishment that Tehrik-e-Insaf was expecting,
01:08and when they were repeatedly asked that if this punishment came,
01:11and a harsh punishment came, then will the negotiations continue?
01:15So, more or less, their reaction was that there would be no difference in the negotiations.
01:20There will definitely be disagreement, but the negotiations will continue.
01:23Now, what is this negotiation about?
01:25Will these hidden negotiations be more effective?
01:28Will there be a breakthrough?
01:30Will the negotiations between the political parties be successful?
01:34As of now, Tehrik-e-Insaf's request to form a Judicial Commission,
01:38has been repeatedly rejected by the Government Committee.
01:41They do not seem to be interested in forming a single Judicial Commission.
01:47Let's see the Government Committee's reaction to this.
02:12Is this just a formality?
02:14The actual negotiations are taking place elsewhere.
02:16Tehrik-e-Insaf has submitted a written request,
02:18but their expectations are higher than the other requests.
02:24This question was asked to Barista Gaur and Salman Akram Raja.
02:27Everyone thinks that they have higher expectations from those negotiations.
02:31Let's listen to them.
02:32Whether the negotiations are successful from the front door or from the back door,
02:35the negotiations will be successful in every way.
02:37How much hope do you have on the Government Committee's negotiations?
02:40Not much.
02:41And how much hope do you have on the Gandapur's talks?
02:43If it is possible, then let's talk.
02:45We found out that a meeting has been held.
02:47A door has been opened.
02:48It can be solved in a day.
02:50It can take some time.
02:52But the good thing is that a direction has been taken.
02:56The Government Committee seems to be a little unnerved by the opening of this door.
03:01Today, Irfan Siddiqui seemed to have expressed a lot of displeasure.
03:05He said that there are two or three different windows and doors open.
03:08The negotiations are taking place where they should be.
03:11Can the negotiations be successful after this?
03:14Will the PMLN re-evaluate its position on this issue?
03:19But anyway, he is very upset that more than one window or door has been opened.
03:25Let's listen to Irfan Siddiqui.
03:28If Ali Gauhar thinks so,
03:31Alima Khan Sahiba also said yesterday that she is very happy.
03:34And Khan Sahib also expressed great satisfaction.
03:37Ali Gauhar has given them the name of the backdoor dialogue process.
03:42Negotiations of two or three doors do not work.
03:45So tell the people sitting in front of us to leave this effort.
03:50Now we have found the door that we have been trying to open for a year.
03:55Negotiations are also being held with political parties.
03:58Negotiations are also being held with Muqtadara as per Pakistan Tariq-e-Insan.
04:02Faisal Chaudhary has also announced a street movement.
04:06Faisal Chaudhary has also announced a street movement.
04:09Faisal Chaudhary has also announced a street movement.
04:12Faisal Chaudhary has also announced a street movement.
04:15Faisal Chaudhary has also announced a street movement.
04:18Faisal Chaudhary has announced a street movement.
04:21Faisal Chaudhary has announced a street movement.
04:24Faisal Chaudhary has announced a street movement.
04:27Faisal Chaudhary has announced a street movement.
04:30A large group of people from KP will gather in Peshawar.
04:34A large group of people from KP will gather in Peshawar.
04:37We will celebrate Yom-e-Siyam.
04:39We will call for a shutterdown.
04:41We will call for a shutterdown.
04:43Yesterday, Tehreek-e-Insaf has also increased contacts with various opposition parties.
04:47Yesterday, Tehreek-e-Insaf has also increased contacts with various opposition parties.
04:50Yesterday, we met Mr. Achakzai and Mr. Shahid Khan Abbasi.
04:53Yesterday, we met Mr. Achakzai and Mr. Shahid Khan Abbasi.
04:56Yesterday, we met Mr. Achakzai and Mr. Shahid Khan Abbasi.
04:59What is the standpoint of people who are sitting in this meeting relating to this injunction?
05:04This alliance is only and only for enforcing the law.
05:11Lawyer, journalist, merchant, even retired judges and general…
05:14we will invite everyone.
05:16We all will unite and take such a path through collective wisdom
05:21which will benefit all of us.
05:23Basically, it is make for rules or implement rules.
05:26a democracy, which has a one-point agenda, the rule of law.
05:34With us in the program is Mr. Mifta Ismail, Secretary General of the Awam Pakistan Party,
05:39Mr. Fawad Chaudhary, Senior Politician, Mr. Mustafa Nawaz Khokhar.
05:42Thank you all very much.
05:43At the moment, the country's politics is taking a step forward,
05:46it is taking a few steps back.
05:47There was some hope from the side of the negotiations,
05:51is that hope still there?
05:53We will ask this to our guests.
05:55I think, Mr. Mustafa, let's start with you.
05:57First of all, the judgment that came yesterday,
05:59after this, do you think that the negotiation process will go in any direction?
06:02And will there be a breakthrough in the Government and the Opposition Negotiating Committee?
06:06Or will there be a breakthrough in the negotiations that are taking place?
06:09If there is a breakthrough there, then its effects will be seen on the Government Committee.
06:13Yes, thank you.
06:14But in my opinion, the Government Committee is only an exhibition committee.
06:19If the actual negotiations are successful, where they are taking place,
06:23then this committee has to officially announce it.
06:26More than that, I am not sure how much power this committee has.
06:31The difficulties that they have to face,
06:35to get a meeting with Mr. Imran Khan, the Negotiating Team of Tehrik-e-Insaf,
06:40and then we find out behind the scenes,
06:43how those meetings are held at the last minute by putting pressure.
06:50This clearly shows that the Government Negotiating Committee does not have much power.
06:57But as far as the negotiations are concerned,
07:00I see the negotiations from two perspectives, Maria.
07:04The first is that it is obvious that in our country,
07:08the crisis that started after the 2018 elections,
07:14and then after the last year's elections,
07:17there was further deepening in that crisis.
07:20The price of this political crisis is being paid by the people of Pakistan.
07:24We are paying the price of this political crisis in such a way
07:28that today the number of people living below the poverty line in Pakistan is approximately 50%.
07:34Our economy is not able to rise and political uncertainty is not able to end.
07:40So it is obvious that if the negotiations are successful,
07:43then this uncertainty will end and it will benefit the people of Pakistan,
07:47which is a good thing.
07:49But then there is another angle to this.
07:52And that is, Maria, if we have to continue the journey of 76 years,
07:57if we have to do the same work that is happening,
08:02that one community's behind-the-scenes negotiations are successful,
08:07like the PDM negotiations, and then the PDM came into power.
08:11And if you look at the negotiations of Tehreek-e-Insaf from that context,
08:16then only after success will the concept of a hybrid regime continue.
08:24What we need in Pakistan is that this journey of circles ends.
08:28Let the people of Pakistan decide what they want, who they want to elect as rulers.
08:34They ask the people of Pakistan, what is the status of their decision in this country?
08:40What is the importance of their opinion?
08:42Will the decisions made in the closed rooms be imposed on them?
08:46Or do they also have a say in the decision-making of this country?
08:49So if we look at it from that point of view,
08:52if the journey of those circles continues as a result of these backdoor negotiations,
08:58we cannot reverse the 26th Constitutional Amendment.
09:02The freedom of expression has been compromised.
09:04If we cannot convince people about the Constitution and civilian supremacy,
09:09if we cannot convince people about freedom of expression,
09:12if we cannot end the culture of political victimization,
09:15and if the goal is to get power back only through the success of the negotiations,
09:20then I think this will be a failure in the larger picture of Pakistan.
09:25What Mr. Nawaz Khokhar is saying,
09:29that if the negotiations are to be held in the same framework as they have always been,
09:34in which when it comes to PDM, they have come to power,
09:37and if Tehreek-e-Insaf wants relief,
09:39or if I say in the language of Tehreek-e-Insaf,
09:41that they want fairness,
09:45then should the negotiations with Mukhtidara be held in the same ambit,
09:50in the same way, and the judgement that has come yesterday,
09:53will this be a spoiler in this whole matter, or will it not matter?
09:56Will this process continue?
09:58Because it has already started.
09:59Has the engagement reached this level?
10:01Earlier, there was no question of engagement.
10:06Look Maria, it is a spoiler.
10:08If you say that it will not have any effect, then it is not so.
10:12In my opinion, one issue is Tehreek-e-Insaf's politics,
10:17and the other is the journey of Mustafa in Pakistan.
10:21Look, it is not only Imran Khan's responsibility to end the journey of Dairs.
10:25If the people of Pakistan are not interested in ending the journey of Dairs,
10:30if they are not interested in going out for their rights,
10:34then just to keep Imran Khan in jail for 18 months,
10:38if a 73-year-old person has spent 18 months of his life in jail,
10:44is sitting in a death cell,
10:48then it is not only Imran Khan's responsibility.
10:51If the people of Pakistan do not go out and cannot talk about their rights,
10:56then the journey of Dairs will continue.
10:58However, I think that PTI's own politics has its own flaws and mistakes,
11:08because of which, the way Imran Khan has got support,
11:1470-80% of the people of Pakistan are with Imran Khan,
11:18but Imran Khan is in jail and is not able to come out.
11:22The current government of PTI,
11:25you will agree with me,
11:27is only in power because the army and Imran Khan are fighting,
11:32the establishment and PTI are fighting,
11:34and Nawaz Sharif, Shahbaz Sharif, Maryam Nawaz and Sardari are ruling.
11:38There is no reason for them to lose.
11:41There is political credibility.
11:43There is political pressure.
11:45But on the other hand,
11:47this is PTI's fight,
11:49and on the other hand,
11:51PTI's leadership is unsuccessful in forming a big political alliance.
11:56These are two reasons.
11:58We met yesterday.
12:00Mr. Fawad, the meeting that took place yesterday,
12:02seems to be towards building a political alliance.
12:04Listening to you,
12:06they have started taking the political alliance seriously.
12:08But they are making it tomorrow.
12:10But they have started the process.
12:12Absolutely right.
12:14We will hear from Mr. Miftas
12:16what his thoughts are on this.
12:18But this is the only way forward,
12:20which is PTI's politics.
12:22As far as the role of the establishment should be concerned,
12:26it should be limited,
12:28the constitution should be free,
12:30the judiciary should be free,
12:32PTI cannot do this alone.
12:34Until the people of Pakistan join,
12:36all political parties will not agree on this.
12:39You cannot do this only with Imran Khan.
12:42Imran Khan said,
12:44get on the throne,
12:46and Ram will sacrifice.
12:48I will not do this.
12:50The rest of the people will agree.
12:52This is not the case.
12:54Everyone is clapping for Imran Khan.
12:56It's okay.
12:58It's been 18 months now.
13:00They have not been able to find a solution.
13:02And of course, it is Mr. Khan's own fault.
13:04He has put up a very mediocre leadership.
13:07He has put up a very mediocre leadership.
13:09He has put up a very mediocre leadership.
13:11You are telling him to make an alliance,
13:13you are telling him to make an alliance,
13:15you are telling him to make an alliance,
13:17you cannot do anything with this leadership.
13:19It is your own fault.
13:21But I am very sad about yesterday's decision.
13:23I am really hurt.
13:25Mr. Miftas is also with us in the program.
13:27Thank you very much for joining us.
13:29We are also saying that politics
13:31is one step ahead,
13:33then it goes many steps back.
13:35Everyone is in a closed lane.
13:37Whether it is PTI,
13:39they have limited options.
13:41PMLN has very limited options.
13:43Even if they talk now,
13:45how many concessions will they be able to give to each other?
13:47even if they talk now,
13:49how many concessions will they be able to give to each other?
13:51I am asking the question of capacity.
13:53We all know what should happen.
13:55But do you see capacity in leadership
13:57to get out of this place?
13:59to get out of this place?
14:01See, Muslim League Noon
14:03has put its politics on the back burner
14:05for power.
14:07and it has finished politics.
14:09Now, it is giving the last hiccups
14:11to a decent family.
14:13We have left the vote to the respectable.
14:15At one place, the daughter has become
14:17the Chief Minister.
14:19At another place, the brother has become
14:21the Prime Minister.
14:23At another place, the brother has become
14:25the Prime Minister.
14:27So, Muslim League Noon,
14:29its goals have become different
14:31compared to the goals of the Muslim League.
14:33It is a big party of Pakistan
14:35which was taking Pakistan forward.
14:37Its goals and the goals of the Muslim League
14:39have finished.
14:41Ibrahim Khan had done a wrong competition
14:43since he has come out of power.
14:45He has started competing with the army.
14:47And it is my belief that
14:49he should compete with the political parties.
14:51And if you think that
14:53you will take over the government
14:55by fighting with the army,
14:57then you cannot fight more than the army.
14:59You should try to compete with the political parties.
15:01And you should try to compete with the political parties.
15:03He has spoken to us
15:05in this area
15:07about the protection
15:09of the constitution of Pakistan.
15:11That we should talk about
15:13the implementation of the constitution.
15:15And I think that
15:17it is more appropriate and better
15:19that we talk about the implementation of the constitution.
15:21And we should bring
15:23arguments in it.
15:25And we should shape
15:27the public opinion.
15:29That where have we taken our country?
15:31One thing which is the failure of this government
15:33and because of which
15:35I think there will be a gap
15:37between the army and the government
15:39is that the delivery of the government is zero.
15:41And the delivery of the view is zero.
15:43Like Mustafa said
15:45that approximately half of the Pakistanis
15:47are below the poverty line of 10.5 crore Pakistanis.
15:49Which you said in the beginning
15:51that in a boat
15:53the majority of the people who drowned
15:55were Pakistanis.
15:57So you see that whenever
15:59such an incident happens all over the world
16:01the people who die
16:03are our Pakistani children.
16:05So is it that
16:07Pakistani children do not get employment in Pakistan?
16:09They have to wander around the world.
16:11They have to go illegally.
16:13Why can't we educate our children here?
16:15Why can't we give our children employment here?
16:17So I think
16:19that I can see
16:21some change
16:23but I don't know where it will be.
16:25When you talk about change
16:27what kind of change are you talking about?
16:29Are you talking about change
16:31in the current political scenario?
16:33Or are you talking about change in the temperature?
16:35Are you talking about change in the dynamics?
16:37The government has been visibly upset for some time.
16:39They didn't know that the negotiations
16:41in the backdrop
16:43I think they only came to know
16:45when the confirmation came from Tehrik-e-Insaf.
16:47Are they talking about that change
16:49or what kind of change are they talking about?
16:53Look,
16:55we all know that
16:57because the government does not have a mandate
16:59they do not have moral authority.
17:01And if they do not have moral authority
17:03they play a very limited role in the field.
17:05What Mustafa or
17:07maybe Fawad Bhai has said
17:09that they cannot hold a meeting
17:11of the opposition leaders.
17:13So the mandate of the government
17:15is also very limited.
17:17We have given them a mandate
17:19according to which they have got it.
17:21They are also working on a very limited salary.
17:23So these are the faces.
17:25But
17:27now we have to see
17:29how long this face will be kept.
17:31Or this face
17:33will be taken forward
17:35or the face will be changed.
17:37I think that somewhere
17:39if there are extensive negotiations
17:41then somewhere
17:43they will have to understand
17:45that we have to change the direction of the government.
17:47And you can do that by asking the people.
17:49So I think that
17:51in the next few years
17:53we will go towards elections.
17:55But before that I think that
17:57everyone should sit together.
17:59And maybe after the backdoor negotiations
18:01at least this thing will happen.
18:03And if the PTI also talks about
18:05the validity of the law
18:07and talks about the rule of the law
18:09then it is more appropriate.
18:11If they only talk about getting Imran Khan sir released
18:13then I think there are more problems than that.
18:15But now
18:17the demands of the PTI
18:19regarding the release of Imran Khan sir
18:21is not mentioned.
18:23But you are talking about elections.
18:25I want to go on a break.
18:27Then I will come back.
18:29Then we will talk about this alliance.
18:31And we will also ask
18:33about the possibilities of elections
18:35before the time.
18:37Can this be done?
18:39And if we talk about changing the face
18:41of the PTI.
18:49Welcome back.
18:51We have with us
18:53Mustafa Nawaz Khokhar,
18:55Fawad Chaudhry and Mirta Ismail.
18:57We will talk about the possibilities
18:59of politics in a closed street.
19:01Mustafa sir,
19:03please play out this with me.
19:05As a result of the negotiations
19:07there were negotiations of two tiers.
19:09You mentioned earlier
19:11that there should be a limit
19:13so that there are no barriers.
19:15It is necessary to have those negotiations.
19:17But when we are standing here
19:19where it is a matter of survival of both entities.
19:21Tehreek-e-Insaf
19:23needs the release of its mandate
19:25and its leader.
19:27The government needs stability.
19:29Both are not able to give it to each other
19:31until and unless they give
19:33huge concessions to each other.
19:35Do you think they can afford
19:37to give some space to Tehreek-e-Insaf
19:39to the government
19:41and have elections in 2026?
19:43If such a scenario
19:45is created,
19:47is it possible?
19:49Because there is a lot of mistrust.
19:51What is the guarantee
19:53that it will be understood?
19:55Will there be a follow-up?
19:57Maria, I think
19:59whenever the politicians
20:01will sit together and decide
20:03they will find a solution.
20:05We all know
20:07that
20:09the current
20:11fight in Ashrafia
20:13which has been
20:15surrounding the country
20:17for many years
20:19whenever there are such
20:21fights and polarizations
20:23then what is the solution
20:25in the world
20:27that you have elections
20:29and let the people decide.
20:31There is no better judge than the people.
20:33People's decisions
20:35are not accepted.
20:37On 8th, a decision is made
20:39through a ballot
20:41and on 9th,
20:43a new decision is made
20:45in the form of Form 47.
20:47Now the question is
20:49whether we have to
20:51run this country
20:53in the same way
20:55and I think
20:57that the country
20:59cannot be run in the same way
21:01because the fault lines
21:03are emerging.
21:05There is no direction
21:07in our foreign policy.
21:09The challenges that we face
21:11like terrorism
21:13is a big challenge.
21:15To tackle all these
21:17you need a representative government
21:19which has the trust of the people
21:21so that the decisions
21:23are made
21:25as a representative government
21:27and not as a government
21:29There is nothing
21:31other than the people
21:33and there is no mandate of the people.
21:35So the solution is elections.
21:37Now how do we move towards those elections?
21:39Either by gathering the opposition
21:41like Fawad Bhai
21:43has been saying for a long time
21:45and we all support him
21:47that the biggest flaw
21:49in the politics of Tehreek-e-Insaf
21:51is that they do not consider anyone
21:53as a legitimate political stakeholder
21:55in the country.
21:57But they have done it alone
21:59and we have seen
22:01the examples of the past few years
22:03in which they have not been able
22:05to bring any change.
22:07We need an alliance of the opposition
22:09and I think
22:11the alliance of the opposition
22:13should also think about
22:15the Tehreek-e-Tahfuz-e-Ain
22:17that they should also change their name.
22:19Everyone has failed in the preservation of the constitution.
22:21Now we need Tehreek-e-Bahali-e-Ain.
22:23Now we need Tehreek-e-Bahali-e-Jabhooriyat.
22:25Now we need Tehreek-e-Tahfuz-e-Ain
22:27Now we need Tehreek-e-Tahfuz-e-Ain
22:29and after all that
22:31we need to create
22:33pressure again
22:35and the most important point
22:37should be that
22:39the Charter of Democracy
22:41and the rights of the people
22:43and the rights of the people
22:45and the rights of the people
22:47and the rights of the people
22:49until all these things
22:51are not included in it
22:53I will not agree with Fawad Bhai that he has put all the responsibility on the people of Pakistan that the people come out.
23:00We politicians will also have to think about our role that we do not have that credibility in the eyes of the people.
23:06See, now the vote was made such a big statement of respect and when the power was seen, the statement of respect and vote was blown away.
23:14So it is also a matter of credibility of us politicians.
23:17The day the people will believe that we are following the leaders of the caravan, that their goal is not power, their goal is to change this country, to correct the system, then the people will say,
23:27and then as politicians, it is also our responsibility that we do not take them towards political violence.
23:32That protesting peacefully is the right of every Pakistani, it is the right of every civilized society.
23:38And as a state, Mr. Mustafa, it is also a responsibility that so much breath should not be taken that the matters should not go towards political violence without any other way.
23:48This is the dangerous thing that the state should also understand.
23:52Mr. Mufti, I am going to Fawad, but since there is a disagreement between Mr. Fawad and Mr. Mustafa at this point, Mr. Fawad thinks that it is the responsibility of the people, not just Mr. Khan.
24:02Mr. Mustafa thinks that it is a bigger responsibility of the politicians.
24:05What is your take on this?
24:07Look, a politician has no status if he does not have the people with him.
24:14When the people are there, then a politician is there.
24:17When we talk about politicians today, we talk about Mr. Imran Khan, although he is in jail, because a large number of the people are with him.
24:26We do not talk about Mr. Shahbaz Sharif, although he is the Prime Minister, because the number of the people is not with him.
24:32But it is true that the leadership that Mr. Mustafa is showing, have the politicians shown that leadership?
24:39The truth is that today Mr. Imran Khan is talking about Bahawali-e-Ain, which is a very good thing.
24:44But we have also seen the government of Mr. Khan, where there was not much concern about the rule of law.
24:52Today, when we have seen that Mr. Khan has been punished by the Naib, we also see that Mr. Khan has also misused the Naib.
24:59So, if you want to inspire the people, then you have to show consistent leadership.
25:06Now, at least my thought is that, for example, if you do demonstrations and strikes from all over Pakistan,
25:17and they succeed all over Pakistan, not just in Peshawar, then I think it has more effect,
25:21as opposed to that you bring people from KP and hold a protest in Islamabad or a big rally in Peshawar.
25:27And frankly speaking, we know that Lahore or Punjab is the political heart of Pakistan,
25:33so you can put a little pressure on the people there.
25:37But basically, I think it should be absolutely peaceful.
25:41But at this time, we should take advantage of this opportunity.
25:46We should understand that we have got an opportunity to change Pakistan's direction.
25:50This government itself also believes that we do not have any mandate.
25:54So, you should also talk through this government.
25:56You should also understand that Mian Nawaz Sharif and his party are also stakeholders.
26:00People's Party is also a stakeholder. Imran Khan is also a stakeholder.
26:04And there are many other small and large groups.
26:06After that, there are your scholars, media people, retired generals and judges.
26:11You should sit with all of them and create a consensus with all of them about how we should proceed.
26:17And then you should decide on a direction and then go to the elections.
26:21This is at least our opinion that we should proceed in this way.
26:24Because the truth is, what are we talking about in the end?
26:27We are talking about the fact that this Pakistan has failed its people.
26:31That in this Pakistan, 40% of the people are so poor that they do not get three meals a day.
26:37In the end, we are talking about the political instability here,
26:41and the political turmoil due to which the 40 children who have been martyred,
26:46have a direct connection to this.
26:48That there is political turmoil in Pakistan, there is no capital,
26:52the tax rates are high, electricity is expensive, and these are all problems.
26:55That's why our children are going abroad, and the children are dying in the boats.
26:59So we should understand that this is the nexus of all this.
27:02And we should start from here that at least the fundamental rule of business,
27:08which runs the whole society, at least we should agree on that.
27:12We should not change it in the darkness of the night.
27:15And Mustafa's brother was thinking of a name.
27:17I think it should be called MRD, Movement for Restoration of Democracy.
27:20Because the truth is that when the elections ended in August 2023,
27:26there is no democracy in Pakistan because of that.
27:29This is also a caretaker too. People call it PDM too.
27:32The MRD you talked about, Mr. Fawad,
27:35the unfortunate thing about Pakistan is that every few years we need an MRD.
27:41Restoration of Democracy.
27:43What they are talking about now, you heard what Mr. Mustafa said,
27:46you heard what Mr. Mifta said, conceptually, ideally, theoretically,
27:51they are on point.
27:53There can be no disagreement with that.
27:55But politics is based on practical and tactical moves.
27:58There is a lot of politics even before reaching this point.
28:01And all political parties have to unpack that politics.
28:06Do you think that the backdoor negotiations that are being tried for a breakthrough,
28:13can they bring a change?
28:15Can it move forward?
28:17Did they miss this opportunity in Mukhtadarani and Tehreek-e-Insaf?
28:21Mr. Mifta is saying that politicians should fight.
28:28They should protect the community.
28:31The truth is that the constitution is not a threat to politicians.
28:35Politicians and the misuse of the NAB, they easily put it on Imran Khan.
28:40Everyone knows that the NAB misuses the common law.
28:43Everyone knows the danger of the constitution in Pakistan.
28:46What is the judicial system in Pakistan?
28:50And as you yourself said, that peaceful protest is a very good thing.
28:55But so many peaceful protests have been allowed.
28:58More than 100,000 posters have been put up in Punjab.
29:01And literally hundreds of thousands of people have been affected by it.
29:05Women have not been spared.
29:07Children have not been spared.
29:09So the high-handedness that has happened,
29:11what is the blame for that?
29:16It's okay, they have gone there, they have run, they have sat.
29:21And there is no greater role of politicians than this.
29:24Look, for the sake of democracy,
29:27I don't know what more sacrifices Imran Khan is making than this.
29:32Or what leadership he will show, what he is showing.
29:35And he is still in jail.
29:38And his message is still the same.
29:40I will not compromise on this except for the sake of the constitution.
29:45Anyway, it's okay.
29:48There are only two ways.
29:50Either the establishment itself decides.
29:53No, Pakistan cannot go on like this.
29:55What Mustafa said, what Mr. Mustafa said.
29:58This has also happened in the world.
30:00Like Indonesia.
30:02In Indonesia, in De Gaulle, in France, this decision was made.
30:06They said that the country cannot go on like this.
30:08And they have made their ways democratic.
30:11The second way is that people come and go.
30:15The third way is that all the politicians in Pakistan will sit down,
30:18have tea, chat.
30:20And as a result, a democracy will emerge in Pakistan.
30:23But this will not happen.
30:25There is no other third way.
30:28Yes, there is one.
30:30The historical framework of Pakistan is changing.
30:39From 1953 in Pakistan, we were fighting for the Western bloc.
30:43The West was supporting us.
30:45The Arab bloc was supporting us because of the West.
30:48We were getting money.
30:50We were living a happy life.
30:52Now the wars are over here.
30:54So the interest of the Western bloc has changed with the Pakistani establishment.
30:59The interest of the Arab bloc has decreased.
31:03Let's see what happens next.
31:06Otherwise, there are only two ways.
31:08There is no third way.
31:10Even if the politicians sit down, what will happen?
31:12They are ultimately politicians.
31:15At this point, I would like to ask you all a question.
31:22Mr. Mustafa, do you think that the current negotiations will lead to success?
31:27Will there be a breakthrough?
31:29Will there be a change in the election process?
31:32Or do you think that the confrontation will increase?
31:37I think it is a positive thing.
31:40We will not get the results that we are talking about.
31:46Maybe we will see that Imran Khan and Bushra Bibi will be shifted to Benigala.
31:53Some political prisoners will be released.
31:56The wave of political victimization will end.
32:02We will not get everything in one day.
32:05It will be a gradual process.
32:07But the end goal should be that the country moves towards elections.
32:14And as a result of the elections, a representative government should govern Pakistan.
32:20The government of the non-representative form 47.
32:24The decision of sitting in closed rooms.
32:28The system of governments should end as a result of these decisions.
32:33Mr. Mufti, do you think that the political temperature will come down in the coming days?
32:38Or will the confrontation increase?
32:44I do not think that the confrontation will increase.
32:47I think that I agree with Mustafa.
32:49I think that these negotiations are happening because of the uncertainty of the United States.
32:55The government is also uncertain about what will happen if there is no pressure from the United States.
33:00Maybe the PTI is also counting that there will be a lot of pressure from there.
33:04But I think what Mustafa said that there is a good chance for Begum Sahiba and Imran Khan to go to Benigala.
33:10And I think that what Mustafa said in the beginning.
33:16That there are many more negotiations.
33:19Sometimes it is Begum Sahiba.
33:21Sometimes it is Ali Amin Gandapur.
33:23Negotiations will be basically there.
33:26And then this committee will put its thumb on it.
33:31It will announce.
33:33Mr. Fawad, the same question.
33:35Do you think that the temperature will increase or decrease in the coming days?
33:38This is absolutely right.
33:41It is simple.
33:42Both parties are waiting for the White House to change.
33:46Whether it brings pressure to Pakistan or not.
33:50If there is pressure from there, the negotiations will be successful.
33:54If there is no pressure, then nothing will happen.
33:57Because it is decided.
34:00A person sitting here is not thinking about the country.
34:04He is thinking about how to spend more days here.
34:07We have fun.
34:08It should go on.
34:10It is not that a person has the ability to look ahead with his own feet.
34:16It is just that how to spend a few more days here.
34:20If there is pressure, then the negotiations will be successful.
34:24If there is no pressure, whether it is speed power or foreign pressure.
34:29Without that, there will be no fun.
34:31Right.
34:32Thank you very much for tonight.
34:34We will go on break.
34:35When we come back, we will talk about the 44 Pakistani Lukma Agile.
34:38For what reasons do people leave Pakistan?
34:41What issues do they have to face?
34:45What stages do they go through?
34:46We will talk about it.
34:47Stay with us after the break.
34:50Pakistan's Lukma Agile
34:54Another ship sinks and 44 of them die.
34:59Despite this, all the authorities in Pakistan do not listen to them.
35:05We hear that this process happens every few months.
35:08At that time, there are some incidents.
35:11But then many Pakistanis also sink in the sea.
35:15A ship from Mauritania to Spain has recently had an accident.
35:21As a result, 44 Pakistanis and 50 tourists were killed.
35:25According to Reuters, 86 people were on board the ship.
35:31Of these, 36 people were rescued by government officials in Marrakesh.
35:35Benalakwami Institute, which works for the rights of tourists, claimed that most of the dead were from Pakistan.
35:43In the shipwreck, 12 of the 44 Pakistanis were Gujarat residents.
35:48In addition, people from Sialkot and Mandi Bahauddin were also on board the ship.
35:52A Pakistani, who was actually saved, told his family on the phone that
35:57when the ship was standing in the sea, some people fell ill due to severe cold.
36:01Human smugglers forced them into the sea.
36:04Some people were tortured and killed.
36:07A Pakistani, who was saved, said that the ship had left for Spain on 2 January.
36:12But on the way, human smugglers demanded more money.
36:16The ship remained in the sea for 8 days.
36:19In the middle of last month, a ship sank near the southern island of Greece.
36:24Five Pakistanis were on board.
36:2639 people were rescued by the Greek Navy.
36:29According to the 2024 report of illegal migration from Pakistan,
36:35illegal migrants have migrated to the first five countries in the world.
36:41According to the report, in comparison to 2021,
36:44illegal migration from Pakistan has increased by 280% in 2023.
36:51People sell everything they own, spend lakhs of rupees,
36:54and get caught in the hands of these agents.
36:57And then they try to take them across.
37:01But many ships capsize.
37:03Many people are brutally killed.
37:06This is the horrific image of illegal immigration in Pakistan.
37:10The program is over.
37:11Don't forget to give your feedback.
37:12Take care. Goodbye.