Las Vegas Raiders Insider Podcast Dives Into If the Silver and Black Dodged a Bullet
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00:00Hello, everybody. This is Hondo Carpenter, your Las Vegas Raiders beat writer on SI,
00:06and I am also the host of the Las Vegas Raiders Insider Podcast. It's great to be with you
00:10today. Obviously, we're going to talk about the Ben Johnson situation, and we're going
00:15to talk today in its entirety. As you know, it was 10 days ago, a week ago Sunday, when
00:26I told you that I could confirm in Rappaport's report of the word enamored. That's what someone
00:31in the organization had used for me, and that Ben Johnson was the clear frontrunner. I can
00:39tell you that even Sunday night, this past Sunday night, a couple of days ago, we had
00:44had a coach reach out to Shannon and I, who we're friends with, and his wife, who thought
00:49they were moving to Vegas with Ben. It did not work out. We are going to get in later
00:56into the details of why it didn't get out. I've certainly been given a couple of reasons
01:02at least why Ben turned his attention to the Bears, but I've not been able to confirm it
01:09from people that would have firsthand information. I'm not going to throw stuff out there until
01:15I get that. I want to get into today about what happened a little bit, but then looking
01:22ahead and where are the Raiders at right now. The Raiders were clearly in the driver's seat.
01:29They were the one, I can tell you Raider players felt that way. They were stunned yesterday.
01:36I got some really interesting texts just about the entire situation. I know people in the
01:42building felt that he was there. I can tell you around the NFL, multiple team executives,
01:49league executives, agents, yep, he's going to Vegas. Again, about people who thought
01:55they were coming to Vegas with him. It ended up not being something that came to materialization.
02:02Every single thing that we reported to you is 100% accurate. He was the front runner.
02:07He was expected to take the job. The Raiders did not lose him because of money, but as
02:13we told you all along, anything could happen and it certainly did. But to use the word
02:22shocked, that is the word multiple people, league executives, team executive agents,
02:28players, coaches, and myself completely shocked that it didn't come to fruition. Again, we'll
02:34get you more details on that later. But as I was preparing for him to take the job, I alluded
02:41to this yesterday and I think it's very important to talk about again today. As I was preparing for
02:48him to get the job, I was working on an article, the pros and the cons of Ben Johnson. Now, I want
02:55to make this point extremely clear. At literally no time in the process did a former or current
03:04player of Ben Johnson, a former or current coach with him, or authority above him, or
03:10an executive, or an agent, or anyone else have anything other than praise for his character
03:16as a person and for his ability as a coach. However, my wife and I got a message from
03:27an AFC executive last night after the news broke that he was going to the Bears who said
03:33he believed the Raiders had dodged a bullet. I want to get into that a little bit, not because
03:39of character, not because of ability to coach, but because of, and I shared this, Ben is very
03:47introverted. Now, he is very much an offensive whiz and genius. That's factual. But remember,
03:58when Josh McDaniels came here, league people used the word offensive savant. I can attest
04:06to you that Josh McDaniels, the man, is a good man. Raiders players liked him away from the building.
04:14Nobody wished him ill will, but Josh was not a leader of men that the head coach has to be.
04:21He's more introverted, more quiet, more to himself, a lot like Ben Johnson. And this person who knows
04:29Josh very well and knows Ben Johnson very well, this AFC executive, told Shannon and I that he
04:36felt the Raiders dodged a bullet and called him Josh McDaniels 2.0. Some people are meant to be
04:47an offensive coordinator or a defensive coordinator, but they're not meant for that
04:52head job. And as I asked other people, I said, I was told this by an AFC executive. It was kind
04:59of Josh McDaniels 2.0. Several people, including people with the Lions, agreed. And I can tell you,
05:08everyone at the Lions expected him to go to the Raiders.
05:12That was the entire mood of the entire situation. And one of the things that I think you have to
05:19look at in this process is, there's an old country western song, sometimes you got to thank God for
05:26unanswered prayers. I hope Ben Johnson goes on to have a successful and great career as a head
05:32coach. Because of the amount of people that I know who personally know him that tell me how good of
05:39a guy he is, I root for good people. But I also know the people in Vegas are good people. I want
05:47them to succeed. So knowing that most coaches get hired to get fired and don't work out,
05:55perhaps the Raiders did dodge a bullet. He's not a strong leader, meaning how he would lead an
06:03entire team. So that was fascinating. And I think it's something, it's not revisionist history.
06:10The Raiders absolutely wanted him. He was their guy. So clearly they were not worried about it.
06:17So I'm not trying to pretend, oh, there's revisionist history. I absolutely reported he
06:21was the front runner. I absolutely reported everyone expected it to happen, as did many
06:26others. But it did not. So we stand by what we reported. But we're not doing with this podcast
06:34today trying to perform revisionist history. So let me go back with you and go through where the
06:43Raiders are right now. Originally in the process, they wanted somebody with experience. They felt
06:50that Antonio Pierce, good guy, but they felt like there was a lot of mistakes that happened
06:59due to inexperience. I think there was a lot of angst among the Raider in the building
07:08about the discipline of 2023 seemed to disappear in 2024. There was a lot of,
07:16why are we seeing rookie mistakes when there's a bunch of seasoned guys on there? Are they not
07:21advising him? Is he not listening? I think there was a lot of those questions and I think those
07:26are fair. And so they really wanted experience, but they were Tomlin, which I've shared many
07:33times. If you don't know what that is, you got to go back and watch previous podcasts. But they
07:39absolutely looked at this and that was what they were thinking. But they met with Ben Johnson. Now
07:47Brady and him had already been very much liked each other. And then when he had his virtual
07:55interview, it was absolutely enamored. I made the comment earlier, I don't know if Ian Rappaport
08:01spoke to the same source I did, but a source that I know inside the Raiders literally used the term
08:07enamored with how the Raiders looked at him. And it was the same word that Rappaport had used.
08:15So the Raiders clearly liked him and were willing to veer off that thought process
08:21about who would they go with next, wanting some experience. So here's where the table sits right
08:26now. They've interviewed a bunch of people. They could have an ace up their sleeve to use a Las
08:31Vegas term that none of us are thinking about. But clearly Pete Carroll. So let's go back to him.
08:3910 days ago, I reported, you can go back and watch the podcast, that Pete was a very viable
08:47candidate for this job. But I was told by someone in the organization, if he got the job,
08:55that he would probably have gotten it because their other options had failed.
09:03So let's talk about what some of those other options were. First of all,
09:08Vic Taffer and Tashaun Reed of The Athletic, two competitors, but two friends,
09:15reported first, and they deserve that credit, that Mark Davis Niet with Mike Vrabel just
09:23didn't want to go back. He felt the Patriot way had failed. When I talked to somebody
09:27in the organization about that report, they agreed to that. It was a Mark thing.
09:32So here's Vrabel, probably one of Brady's top choices. He's off the table. Now Ben Johnson,
09:39off the table. So now it clearly puts Pete Carroll absolutely in play for this job.
09:46Yes, he's in his 70s, which a lot of people are talking about, but I can also tell you his energy
09:51as a 70-year-old man. But he brings instant credibility to the head coach's office.
09:59He knows how to manage things. He knows how to handle things. He knows every aspect. There's a
10:05good chance if he were to come, he may bring Gus Bradley. Now, literally just a few moments ago,
10:11I was talking to an executive who told me that he is hearing that Carroll would bring
10:18his sons over to be part of his staff. What about reuniting with Gus Bradley, who the
10:24Raider players absolutely love? That's certainly a possibility with Patrick Graham
10:35moving on. Certainly a possibility. So you certainly look at that and take a long look
10:42there at Pete Carroll, which I think that's no booby prize. If you get
10:47Pete Carroll to be your coach, that's great. Now, if you're looking at the long-term viability,
10:54you may say, well, he won't be here in 10 years. Well, how many coaches has Mark Davis hired that
10:58have been here in 10 years? How many coaches in the NFL are there 10 years? That's the unicorns.
11:05I do think for sure you get five out of them and bring some stability to your organization.
11:11You know what he can do with quarterbacks. Just throwing that out there, not advocating
11:16for or against Pete. I'm just telling you the reality is I think Pete Carroll would be a great
11:21option. And if you walked out with Pete Carroll as your coach and you're a Raider, I would think
11:25you'd be excited about that. Another guy that I don't think is getting enough attention from Raider
11:31fans, but I know has been mentioned to me multiple times by people in and outside the building,
11:38Steve Spagnuolo, the defensive coordinator of the Chiefs. He already knows the weaknesses
11:43of the Raiders offense because he goes against them. He knows the roster. He knows the Chiefs.
11:51He has massive amounts of experience. He's a winner. And the moment he would take over the
11:58head coaching chair of the Raiders, instant respect in that building from all the players,
12:04every one of them, every single one of them, instant respect. So I think Steve Spagnuolo,
12:14if you're looking in that experience route, maybe if you don't like Pete Carroll's age,
12:18you look at his spags. If Pete Carroll's age doesn't bother you, then I think you go with
12:23Pete. But the last one is a name that I want to throw out to you. If they decide, you know what,
12:29we really like Ben. We're convinced now. Let's go get an up and coming young offensive mind.
12:35And that's Liam Cohn. John Spytek is clearly in the driver's seat for the GM job, the Tampa Bay
12:41Buccaneers AGM. Not reporting it's done, but clearly he's in the driver's seat for the job.
12:48And Liam Cohn is there with them. They know each other. Now, I am working on stories on all three
12:57of these guys getting strengths and weaknesses. But Spags, with his experience, if you're saying,
13:03well, he's on an offensive guy, agreed. But the Raiders would go get a trusted offensive
13:10mind. And he knows a lot of them, and he knows who the good ones are. He's had to compete against
13:14them and allow them to run his offense. With Pete Carroll, I already mentioned Gus Bradley. With
13:21Liam Cohn, what direction would he look? Don't have an answer to that. But the point is, is that
13:28as the Raiders sit here today, absolutely, I think people should be disappointed. Okay?
13:36If that's the guy that you wanted, you should be disappointed. If it's not the guy you wanted,
13:40you should be overjoyed. But I've gotten a lot of email, by the way, thanks to all of you who
13:45tell me how fat, stupid, and dumb, and how much you wish I was dead, that I found those to be
13:49entertaining. But I'm not apologizing. I never said one thing that wasn't truthful. So I'm good.
13:57I can live with myself. But what I would say to you is, a lot of people are like,
14:04oh, Tom Brady failed. I'm not willing to call this a failure. And if they had failed, I would
14:11say that it was a failure. If they go get a coach who turns this around, nobody's going to care that
14:17Ben Johnson isn't here. And if Ben Johnson goes and has great success, and their choice fails,
14:23everybody's going to be mad. But here's one thing. There are great candidates that want to come here.
14:32There are great candidates that desire to be here. That's a fact.
14:39And so I would suggest that if you're disappointed, there's nothing wrong with that.
14:44But I would trust the process here. I would let the process take its course. I would let
14:53the process take its direction. And just trust it. See what happens. Watch how it goes. I think this
15:03is going to be a fascinating time. The Raiders are certainly find a way to make it to the front
15:09of everybody's attention. And they've done that. But I'm going to tell you this. I think there's
15:16a lot here and a lot of missing pieces that have to be filled in. I don't expect the Raiders to
15:22panic. It's not the way they operate. They've got enough good people that want this job.
15:28They're going to be completely focused. Now, if they already know that Pete's the guy,
15:33it could happen quick. If they think Spags might be it, maybe they wait for an after
15:37the Super Bowl interview. Cone, available now. Cone, you get an offensive guy that's proven an
15:43ability with quarterbacks. But what does he do with defense? So with each person,
15:52there's some question marks. Undoubtedly, you get less question marks with Pete
16:00and then less question marks with Steve and more question marks with Liam.
16:08But how does it all play out? At this point, nobody knows. It's back to square one for the
16:15Raiders, which is fine. This is a great job and it's a great opportunity. I want to end with this.
16:22I told you all last, not this past Sunday, but the one before 10 days ago,
16:28that if Ben Johnson did not become the coach of the Raiders, that it was not going to be for money.
16:36I can tell you he got a very big deal from the Bears. Very big deal. But time you add in
16:43Illinois taxes, Chicago taxes, and just the top line of what he made a year,
16:50he didn't take, it cost him money to take the Bears over the Raiders. So it had nothing to do
16:59with money. It had to do with fit. We're still digging to find out exactly why. Again, I've had
17:05a couple of people tell me something, but I got to get it confirmed from somebody directly involved
17:10in the process. And when we find that out, I'll tell you. But until then, I can understand the
17:17disappointment of Raider Nation, but I don't think there's anything to be discouraged about.
17:22Thank you everybody for joining me today. Wherever you are in the country,
17:25I hope that you're having a good one and staying warm. God bless y'all.