Greg Bedard and Nick Cattles break down the return of Josh McDaniels to the Patriots, explaining why it’s a tremendous hire for the team. They also react to the Patriots naming Terrell Williams as their new defensive coordinator. Later, they compare the Patriots’ current rebuild to that of the Washington Commanders and discuss key lessons New England can take from Washington’s success this season.
0:00 Intro
1:00 Jabrill Peppers pleads guilty on dr*g charges
3:25 McDaniels was tremendous hire
14:15 McDaniels and Vrabel seeing eye to eye?
14:55 Jayden Daniels FREE SQUARE on PrizePicks
16:07 More on McDaniels and Vrabel
19:55 Tony Dews joining staff, where are Josh's guys?
23:10 Greg's thoughts on Terrell Williams as DC
28:08 Vrabel's ceiling
32:45 Can Patriots make Commanders leap?
38:00 NFL news?
46:32 Title game picks: Commanders at Eagles, Bills at Chiefs
0:00 Intro
1:00 Jabrill Peppers pleads guilty on dr*g charges
3:25 McDaniels was tremendous hire
14:15 McDaniels and Vrabel seeing eye to eye?
14:55 Jayden Daniels FREE SQUARE on PrizePicks
16:07 More on McDaniels and Vrabel
19:55 Tony Dews joining staff, where are Josh's guys?
23:10 Greg's thoughts on Terrell Williams as DC
28:08 Vrabel's ceiling
32:45 Can Patriots make Commanders leap?
38:00 NFL news?
46:32 Title game picks: Commanders at Eagles, Bills at Chiefs
Category
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SportsTranscript
00:00This is the Greg the guard Patriots podcast with Nick Cavins.
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00:51All right, let's get to the headlines, Greg.
00:54Let's start with your Brill peppers.
00:55Apparently in court yesterday, uh, or it was maybe earlier this morning.
01:01Pretty sure it was yesterday.
01:02Uh, he actually copped to cocaine possession and I was just kind of thinking of this with
01:08Mike Vrabel in town.
01:11We don't really know kind of where Vrabel lands with stuff like this.
01:16Just the fact that peppers admitted to possessing cocaine, could peppers end up being a Mike
01:23Vrabel casualty?
01:26Hmm.
01:28It's interesting.
01:29I mean, you know, you know, back in the day, I don't know, probably like 10 years ago or
01:34something like that.
01:35Like this, he would, um, if he was already in the NFL program, he would be suspended
01:41and things like that.
01:43Um, largely street drugs don't do anything to NFL players anymore.
01:50You know, pot or, um, cocaine, I mean, you know, put you into the program, um, the substance
01:57abuse program, but, uh, there it's really limited on what they do as far as street drugs
02:03anymore.
02:04Um, I, uh, my guess with Vrabel is that, uh, for a lot of people, things are going to be
02:14a, a clean start.
02:16I think, uh, you know, I think that's the way Vrabel is going to handle it.
02:21I mean, you know, look, he could cut Jabril peppers, uh, tomorrow, but I do think that
02:27Jabril peppers, if he, you know, comes back in line and does the right things, I mean,
02:32you know, look, he's a, he's a good player when everything's right for this team.
02:36And I think he's, I think he's Vrabel's type of player.
02:39Um, you know, he's tough, he's hard nose, he's a veteran, he's been around, um, helps
02:45the team be multiple.
02:46Um, so, I mean, I guess I would be surprised if, if Vrabel moved on from him a little bit,
02:53but, um, yeah, I mean, you know, we, we have to house, we have to see how all of this stuff
02:58advances under Vrabel.
03:00We really aren't sure how he's going to handle these things.
03:02And by the way, peppers that was from this morning, his quarter parents.
03:05So, uh, they had to delay it a day because something funky happened.
03:09So that was this morning.
03:10So Thursday morning is when he admitted to the cocaine possession.
03:13So we'll keep an eye on that and see how things kind of unfold with peppers, uh, in
03:18his legal situation.
03:20Let's talk about Josh McDaniels for a minute, Greg, you and I, we did not get to discuss
03:24Josh McDaniels and did a breaking news podcast with John Zanis the other night.
03:27Uh, you've had 36 hours or so to, to sit on this and think about it.
03:32Any new thoughts, any more thoughts than you might've had initially when the hire was made
03:38official?
03:39Well, I mean, you know, I, I tweeted this out the other day.
03:42I mean, because, you know, if you typically get the same sort of, uh, you know, pushback
03:49on McDaniels and it's old and it's tired, can we do something new?
03:54And then, you know, of course the BS sports talk radio stuff about like, is this Mike
03:59Vrabel's hire?
04:00Or is this the crafts?
04:01And is it because he's cheap and he's this and that, like, um, it's just, I mean, speaking
04:06of tired, I mean, it's just so.
04:10You know, predictable in this market that that's where they come.
04:12I mean, look, the bottom line is Josh McDaniels is damn good at what he does.
04:18And like, you know, I was having a, uh, a little back and forth with Dan Lipschatz the
04:23other day because, because obviously, obviously he hates nothing beats like back and forth
04:30with Dan Lipschatz on Twitter.
04:31Any of them.
04:32I find, I finally muted the conversation because I was like, this is stupid.
04:36I mean, obviously Josh, uh, did something to Dan that caused him to lose a lot of money
04:43in bedding.
04:44So he hates Josh McDaniels, but I mean, I don't know how anybody can, and people love
04:51the poke holes in 2021, including Lipschatz talking about how like, you know, short fields
04:56and stuff like that.
04:58Like fine.
04:59You want to do that to throw context into like they were sixth and points scored.
05:03That's fine.
05:04But if you look at like the key numbers for that year, when you had a rookie quarterback
05:08and Mac Jones, you had, you know, all these guys who were new to the offense, like born
05:15Henry Aguilar, John, who Smith Ramond Ray Stevenson, uh, you know, was a rookie that
05:22year.
05:23You know, people talk about, Oh, it's going to be too complicated and this and that.
05:26I mean, you know, here, here are some of the numbers from that year, which a lot of them
05:32have nothing to do with having short fields and the defense being really good and all
05:36that stuff.
05:37Uh, they were third, third best.
05:40And so third is, it's a good number.
05:43Third best in the NFL in plays for negative or year zero yards.
05:49They were fourth in three and out percentage.
05:52They were fourth in rush EPA.
05:53They were eighth in plays of 20 plus yards.
05:56They were 10th in plays of 10 plus yards.
05:59They were 10th and third down percentage.
06:01They were 11th in offensive touchdowns.
06:03They were 11th and red zone TD percentage.
06:06They were 12th and offensive and pass EPA.
06:10The only thing, when I was looking back at those numbers, the only thing that they were
06:13bad at, um, compared to the rest of the league, when you looked at it were, um, deep explosive
06:20pass plays.
06:22And I think we can chalk up a lot of that stuff to Mac Jones and also that they didn't
06:26really have a receiver or weapons that really majored in that.
06:32And so, uh, I mean, we know now they have Drake May and we know Drake probably Drake
06:40May's best attribute outside of just being an athlete and be able to create plays, uh,
06:47with his legs is his deep ball accuracy.
06:50It's outstanding.
06:51Yeah.
06:52And as long as they get him weaponry, which I think they will, uh, that can do that.
06:57I think there'll be fine.
06:59So I mean, I just, um, I, I know that Josh McDaniels is a polarizing guy.
07:05Uh, I don't know if it's about his face, his visor, uh, how young he looks, whatever it
07:11is that he, you know, maybe people find them punchable, but, uh, I think he's outstanding
07:17at what he does.
07:18I think he's really good at developing quarterbacks.
07:20And I think he's done it with so many different times with so many iterations of this offense,
07:25you know, uh, everybody knows, I mean, from Matt castle to making cam Newton, somewhat
07:29functional, functional, uh, getting Jimmy Garoppolo ready to play from where he was
07:36as a rookie, which was, you know, kind of a disaster coming from Eastern Illinois as
07:40far as being able to operate in NFL offense.
07:43And, um, yeah, I just, I think it's a tremendous hire.
07:47I, uh, I, I think it's going to be great that you basically have two head coaches.
07:53You have, you know, Mike Rabel who can oversee everything and the defense.
07:59And then you have Josh McDaniels who can handle the offense and hopefully he gets to bring
08:05in his type of guys to coach, especially offensive line, wide receivers and things like that.
08:11I just think it, and, you know, they add Terrell Williams, the defensive as defensive
08:17coordinator, uh, the grownups are back in charge in Foxborough.
08:21And I think it's, I think it's great for the Patriots.
08:23All right.
08:24Well, we'll, we'll unpack some of the other stuff you just brought up at the end there
08:27in a little bit, but as far as McDaniels, I love the hire.
08:31He was the guy that I wanted them to hire.
08:33If you're going with an experienced play caller, he made a lot of sense for all the things
08:36we've talked about.
08:37You look at 2021, couple of other numbers, uh, even though they weren't big time on explosive
08:42plays, they did finish seventh and pass yards per play that year with Mack Jones.
08:47And as far as running the football, they were third in the NFL and rushing success rate.
08:52So field position, no field position, whatever.
08:56If you just look at it from a play to play basis and you stack their numbers up with
08:59other teams, it was a successful offense.
09:02They were 10th in DVO way that year in 2021, they had the 10th best offense in football
09:07according to DVO way.
09:09So I think it's pretty safe to say it was a good season and it was a very good season
09:14for McDaniels.
09:15The other idea about how Mack Jones just fell off a cliff at the end of the year, uh, breaking
09:19news.
09:20That's not true.
09:21I know people like to kind of reshape things over time.
09:25So let me kind of fill in the blanks here at the end of the season.
09:31If you look at Mac Jones's stats overall, yes, they were much worse the final month
09:38of the season than they were his first 13 games.
09:41His completion percentage went from 70% down to just under 60%.
09:46He had 16 touchdowns.
09:47The first 13 games, he had six in his last month.
09:50He had eight interceptions.
09:51His first 13 games, he had five in his last month.
09:54His passer rating from the first 13 games went from a 97 to 79.7.
10:01Okay.
10:03Let me try to add the context.
10:06There was one God awful game that Mack Jones played in that final month against Buffalo.
10:12That was just egregiously bad.
10:15There was also one great game that pumped up some of the stats that was unbelievably
10:20terrific.
10:22Against Buffalo Mac through no touchdowns, two interceptions, and he had a passer rating
10:26of 31.4.
10:28That was not the wind game that was after the wind game, just a bad, awful performance.
10:35He was great against Jacksonville, three touchdowns, no picks with a one 28 quarterback rating.
10:42So just remove those two games.
10:44Okay.
10:45Take out the worst, take out the best.
10:47His other two games in the final month of the season was pretty much what you would
10:52expect from a rookie quarterback after film had been established, which is to say he was
10:58for all intents and purposes, Greg average against Indianapolis.
11:02His passer rating was 74.
11:04He threw a couple touchdowns.
11:05He threw a couple picks against Miami.
11:08His passer rating was 91.1.
11:10He threw a touchdown.
11:11He threw a pick.
11:13It wasn't as if Mack Jones was a walking shit show.
11:17The final four games of the season, but you know, this, this revisionist history happens
11:22all the time.
11:24One other thing I would say, you know, 2011, for example, with McDaniels in LA with the
11:32Rams or St. Louis, let me tell you what Josh McDaniels had as far as ingredients.
11:41Okay.
11:42Sam Bradford believe that was his second year in the league.
11:45He played 10 games, got injured, done.
11:49The other six games that season, the quarterback was AJ Feely and Kellen Clemens.
11:56His best receiver on that team for the Rams was Brandon Lloyd.
12:00You can literally look this up.
12:01There was almost nobody else.
12:03Danny Amendola played, I think one game that year, Brandon Lloyd was his best receiver
12:08on that team.
12:09Brandon Lloyd, guess what?
12:11Played 10 games.
12:12He missed six games that year.
12:15His running back was Steven Jackson, who was 28 years old.
12:19Steven Jackson actually ran for more than 1100 yards that season with McDaniels as the
12:24OC.
12:25Wow.
12:26Jackson would move on at 29 and run for a thousand yards, just over a thousand yards
12:31the next season.
12:32And then guess what?
12:34He was dead to the world.
12:37And on top of that, you can Google this, Google it, folks, Google it.
12:42The Rams offensive line in 2011, pro football focus ranked them 28th in the league.
12:48They had a bottom five offensive line.
12:51They had Sam Bradford who never worked out in the NFL as a starting quarterback.
12:54And then they had AJ Feely and Kellen Clemens.
12:57They had a 28 year old running back who was about 18 months away from completely falling
13:02off the cliff.
13:03And they had one wide receiver who was worth a damn that actually stayed somewhat healthy,
13:08but still finished only 10 games.
13:11So you tell me for a coach who ended up being fired in Steve Spagnolo, you tell me what
13:17you expect.
13:18I mean, and I'm not saying that that excuses everything, but Greg, am I wrong?
13:24When you look at OCs, man, the ingredients matter.
13:27And I think McDaniels is a guy that can get more from average players to above average
13:32players.
13:34But if you give him a crap sandwich, it's going to be a minor miracle if he can turn
13:39that into something that's edible.
13:41And in the, with the Rams in 2011, he was given a big old fat ass crap sandwich.
13:46Yeah.
13:47And plus, you know, that year, I mean, you know, Spax was sort of like a dead man walking
13:52at that point.
13:53I think everybody knew, you know, the, the writing was on the wall and, and Bradford
13:57got hurt.
13:58I mean, you know, to me, I'm just excited that, um, I think that Vrabel and McDaniels
14:04see things the same way in terms of, you know, don't tell me what I don't have, um,
14:11you know, whatever I have at my disposal, like, how do, how do I win the game that week?
14:16You're like, you know, we're not gonna, if the guys can't block up front for whatever
14:21reason, injury performance, whatever, like, we're not going to drop Drake may back like
14:2645 times in a game.
14:27Like we're going to figure it out.
14:29We're going to go short passes.
14:30We're going to go quick passing game.
14:31You know, he has the ability to, whether it's a, you know, go with five wide and go
14:36hurry up or, you know, put, put in full back and two tight ends, like, you know, whatever
14:41they need that week.
14:42And, and Vrabel is the same way as far as the team and the defense.
14:45Um, you know, I think it's, uh, I think it's going to be a really good marriage for the
14:51Patriots.
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16:08There's been a conversation over the last day or so, Greg, about the personalities of
16:12Josh McDaniels and Mike Rabel, uh, Bert Breer, your guy, uh, went on Zoan Bertrand today
16:18and said that there have been questions raised about the personality fit between those two
16:22guys.
16:23Uh, your thoughts.
16:24Do you have any concerns about McDaniels and, and Vrabel working together?
16:28Can, can you give me a little bit more context?
16:31Like what?
16:32Um, I can't, I literally, I literally pulled up a tweet and, uh, it's a video that's 17
16:38minutes long, but, uh, I know I was just about to, I was just about to watch that as well.
16:42Uh, so I guess we both saw the same tweet.
16:46Um, I know Mike Giardi wrote something, right?
16:50I mean, he, Mike wrote something, uh, on BSJ about how, um, McDaniels is, what was
16:59the term?
17:00I don't want to say like harsh, but it was something along those lines of that.
17:05He can be overwhelming.
17:08I think, I think, I think Giardi said something about like, he can be harsh when it comes
17:13to coaching the quarterbacks.
17:15Whereas, you know, Alex van Pelt was very, you know, like calming, soothing for Drake
17:21May.
17:22Like,
17:23okay.
17:24So here's, here's what you already wrote.
17:25I pulled it up.
17:26There's a question about the differing approach style that McDaniels will bring versus what
17:31AVP did.
17:32Uh, a source said, yeah, quote, Alex has a gentler touch.
17:36Josh can be abrasive.
17:37They better be sure that's something the good, uh, the quarterback is good with.
17:40Uh, so they're just overall, generally speaking.
17:44There are questions about McDaniels and how his personality will fit with Vrabel with
17:47Drake May.
17:49What can you tell us about McDaniels?
17:50I mean, I don't, I don't really see any issues.
17:53I mean, cause I view, you know, variables, variable, and, uh, you know, he's, he's prickly
17:59and demanding and, you know, uh, talking to people in Tennessee, they said, you know,
18:05one of the things about him is like some, sometimes players can get into his dog house
18:10and it takes a while for them to get out.
18:12And especially, you know, if you don't give effort or, you know, don't exhibit mental
18:17toughness, there's some things about injuries like soft tissue injury injuries that he's
18:22not real, uh, tolerant of.
18:25Uh, but you know, you also have to remember that Mike Vrabel, um, coached under Bill O'Brien
18:31and rose to be Bill O'Brien's defensive coordinator.
18:33And, um, you know, Bill O'Brien's a great guy, but he's also known as teapot and, you
18:39know, he'll, he'll, he'll get after people.
18:41I mean, I, I see Josh and Billy sort of the same, similar.
18:47Um, I think Josh puts a little bit more of a better packaging on it, but no, I don't
18:52really get those concerns at all.
18:53I mean, they're, you know, they're both competitive.
18:56Um, they're both demanding and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
19:02I think the Patriots have a bunch of hardos on the staff now.
19:05And, you know, some people think hardo can be a bad term.
19:09I know Wolf and Mayo said, we want to be, you know, less hard-ass that
19:14obviously didn't work out.
19:15I think there's a balance.
19:16I think Vrabel strikes that balance with empathy and, and sympathizes with players
19:20at times and, and creates a good connection with them.
19:23But I think when you look at, you know, Terrell Williams, who we'll talk about in
19:27a minute, you look at, uh, McDaniels, you look at Vrabel, they do kind of have this.
19:32Hardo, we want to be physical.
19:34We want to be violent.
19:36We, you know, we're, we're more than willing to get into the fight with you.
19:39If we've got to get into the fight with you.
19:41And honestly, those are my kind of people, Greg.
19:44So I'm okay with it.
19:45I'm okay with it.
19:46If, if they want to have that kind of, uh, that kind of vibe, as long as they
19:52can balance it out a little bit, let me ask you this, the one thing I am concerned
19:56about over the last 24 hours, you mentioned this a little bit, a couple minutes ago.
20:01So Tony Dews, who was the jets running backs coach, he was with Vrabel
20:05for a while down in Tennessee.
20:07He's being brought onto the offensive staff.
20:09Now it has not, at least I haven't seen, maybe you've heard word from sources.
20:13I don't know what title he's going to have.
20:15I know people made the leap that he's been a running backs coach.
20:18So he's going to be the running backs coach.
20:19He's also been a tight ends coach and he played tight end in college.
20:22So I don't know what title he has, but my concern is Mike Vrabel
20:28pulling a bill Belichick here.
20:29And, you know, saying, okay, we got Josh, but I'm going to bring my guys
20:35in, and this is going to be like my offensive staff that Josh gets to run
20:40with, I hope, I hope that Josh has a significant say with these hires
20:48to the offensive staff.
20:49And I would hope that he will get at least a couple, if not a few of his
20:53guys here in new England with him.
20:55Yeah, I think that's a, that's a big thing.
20:58Um, you know, Tony Dews is a guy that, um, you know, a lot of people in
21:02Tennessee credited him with, uh, you know, they were really good with like,
21:05you know, whether it was Derrick Henry or Dion, Dion Lewis, um, you know, when
21:11he left the Patriots and were there and, you know, they, uh, the guy from, there
21:17was a guy from the Cowboys, I think, uh, running back, but anyways, it
21:21did a really good job there.
21:22And, uh, Mike, from what I understand, Vrabel moved him to tight ends to sort
21:28of, uh, progress his career, like help him down the line, but he's really, he's
21:32known as a really good, uh, running backs coach.
21:36And, um, you know, it, you know, it is interesting.
21:40I mean, I think Vrabel thinks very highly of him.
21:43I agree with you.
21:44I, especially when it comes to, with this offense, the offensive
21:48line and the wide receivers.
21:50To me, those are the key hirings that we're talking about when it
21:53comes to, uh, the Mc Josh McDaniels like offense, but then again, if they
22:00keep bringing in Titans guys, you know, maybe he's not running the Josh McDaniels
22:04offense and we'll have to see.
22:06I mean, I would be surprised.
22:07I don't understand the point of hiring Josh McDaniels.
22:10If he's, if you're not going to run what he wants to do, what's been
22:13proven over the years with different players and different quarterbacks.
22:17But yeah, I guess we'll have to see how that turns out.
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23:11Tyrell Williams time here in new England as the defensive coordinator.
23:15Like it, love it.
23:16Hate it.
23:16How do you feel?
23:19Uh, I I'll give another option.
23:23Um, uh, I don't really care.
23:27Is that wrong?
23:28Yeah.
23:28Indifferent.
23:29I guess indifferent would be the other option.
23:31Um, because I mean, I don't know if that's wrong, but like, look, I just
23:36view it as it's Vrabel's defense as opposed to Gerard Mayo, uh, Mike Vrabel
23:42will actually be involved on the defensive side.
23:44We'll probably set the game plan.
23:46Um, we'll probably be involved in the, in the play calling on defense, but I
23:52do think, you know, Tyrell Williams is well thought of around the league.
23:56Uh, he's been around his leadership, very smart.
24:01Um, you know, has sort of, you know, done it all for Vrabel.
24:05So, uh, you know, a good Lieutenant for him to have, uh, have in somebody
24:09who, uh, Mike knows can get things done, uh, during the week as he's,
24:14he, as he's dealing with things.
24:17I know I'm going to sound like a Homer and I could not give two shits, not
24:20one, not two, um, because I've said this before the hires were made.
24:25I wanted Mike Vrabel.
24:26I wanted Mike Vrabel before Gerard Mayo.
24:29I thought Mike Vrabel was the best guy that was out there.
24:31I don't care that he caught touchdowns for the Patriots.
24:34I don't care.
24:34He played for the Patriots.
24:35I don't care if he talked to bill Belichick.
24:37I don't, I don't care about any of it.
24:40The dude is a good coach.
24:41If not really good coach, I would consider him to be at least somewhere
24:44near in the top 10, as soon as he steps back into the league, Josh McDaniels,
24:49I think is a, is a good, if not very good offensive coordinator.
24:53Uh, I'm a fan of Jeremy Springer and what he did last year and how he
24:57kind of resurrected that special teams.
25:00Terrell Williams.
25:01I don't know.
25:02I don't know if he can do the job, but like Greg said, I'm very confident
25:06that Vrabel will make sure that things are settled on that side of the football.
25:10I would say if you're a Patriots fan, you should be very, very happy
25:13with this coaching staff so far.
25:15And I think if you're, if you're angry about this staff or you're
25:20disappointed in this staff, you fell in love with the unknown, which I get.
25:24You fell in love with the idea of, Oh, Ben Johnson's going to come in here.
25:28And you know, he's going to throw things around.
25:30Like Greg just threw his mic around.
25:31He's going to, he's going to get people all excited about it.
25:33Right.
25:35I understand.
25:35I understand you not being as excited for the Mike Vrabel hire,
25:39because offense is fun and Ben Johnson is fun and trick plays are fun.
25:44I think this staff so far is just damn good.
25:48And I don't know, Greg, how you feel about it, but the coordinators so far, I
25:55think Mike Vrabel is doing a damn good job.
25:58I completely agree.
26:00I mean, I think they're off to a really good start.
26:02I think, you know, we're talking about the Patriots are back to being a
26:05professional outfit, uh, with adults in charge, like I said.
26:09I mean, you know, this, this all started going downhill for the
26:11Patriots when McDaniel's left for Vegas.
26:14And then it's basically been a clown show, uh, you know, ever since with,
26:19you know, ever since with bill, you know, thinking that he could do X, Y, and Z.
26:23I can make up for it.
26:24And we all know the, the, the misfires, uh, time and time again.
26:29And, you know, as long as, as long as they continue, especially on the
26:33offensive side of the ball to, you know, align with, uh, what McDaniel's
26:38needs, um, you know, I, I think the Patriots are in a much better
26:42position going into next year.
26:44I think if you, if you put this coaching staff in charge of the
26:48team last year, um, you know, I think we're talking about a team that
26:52probably wins six, seven games, uh, in terms of, you know, how they
26:57approach things and I think, you know, I would also make the argument
27:00that if, if McDaniel's was in charge last year of the offense, I think
27:04Drake may would have started week one.
27:06And I think he would have been, um, you know, well ahead of things and, uh,
27:11knowing how to deal with things on the offensive side of the ball that they
27:14couldn't under Alex van Pelt, you know, couldn't really change things.
27:17I'm excited to see Drake may with the ability to change
27:21protections, change routes, you know, once we get there.
27:25And, uh, I think it's going to be the best thing for him.
27:27Like he's going to understand a lot more, whereas the West coast
27:31offense, you know, for a long time, it's those guys just, they think
27:36their scheme handles everything and their play calls handle everything.
27:39And that's not the way it is.
27:41The beauty about this Patriots offense is that it gives you, it should
27:46provided everybody's on the same page, it should give you the answers to just
27:49about every test you see as an offense.
27:51And so, uh, I think that's a great place to start what Springer did with
27:54the special teams was really good last year.
27:57And, uh, we all know Vrabel knows how to play defense.
28:00Uh, great star for the Patriots.
28:02One conversation that drives me nuts is the ceiling conversation.
28:06Uh, this idea like Ben Johnson has a higher ceiling.
28:10How do we know that?
28:12Um, also do we understand what Mike Vrabel's ceiling was in Tennessee?
28:18He took the Titans with Ryan Tannehill to the AFC championship
28:22game and lost to Patrick Mahomes.
28:25That's a pretty good ceiling.
28:27And if he had, if he had a better quarterback, he might've
28:30beaten Kansas city and Patrick Mahomes.
28:32So what are we talking about?
28:34I'd also say, you know, the other part, the other pushback to some of this is,
28:40well, you know, Vrabel took over this, you know, monster of roster,
28:44which isn't necessarily true.
28:46He took over a roster that had three pro bowlers.
28:47I think it was.
28:48And one of them was the punter.
28:50Um, but here's what I would say.
28:54And you and I have talked about this before, Greg, on this podcast,
28:56that I keep saying this and it keeps ringing true.
29:00When I worked in Virginia beach, when I worked for ESPN radio, when I worked
29:03in Sacramento and I did more kind of national NFL stuff, I would always
29:07say, and I've said it on this pod.
29:09There's always four or five top teams, cream of the crop every year.
29:14And there's always four or five bottom of the barrel teams.
29:17And then there's a bunch stuck in the middle, the meat of the sandwich.
29:21So there's about 20, 22 teams in the middle.
29:24Okay.
29:25Those teams are going to range from five, six wins to nine wins.
29:29All of them.
29:31There's a huge difference.
29:32And I need to emphasize this.
29:34There's a huge difference between a head coach that can take a football team
29:39to a nine win season and backdoor themselves into the playoffs and maybe
29:42win a playoff game versus a head coach that can get that same team to the AFC
29:48championship game or win 12 games.
29:52The difference between a coach that can get you to nine wins and
29:5512 wins is massive folks, massive.
30:00And, and that's people lose that idea.
30:04People think, oh, he just took a nine win team and they just made a, you
30:07know, they ended up winning 12 games with that NFL teams to go from that
30:13middle pack to a top four or five contender, which is what Vrabel made
30:17that team, that's the biggest leap.
30:20The biggest leap isn't going from the bottom of the barrel, like the
30:24Patriots right now to a six or seven win team.
30:26The biggest leap is taking a team that competes and making them a contender
30:31and Vrabel took a team that can compete and made them a legitimate contender.
30:36That's as high of a ceiling as you can get in the NFL.
30:39So can we stop with the ceiling talk?
30:41It makes no sense.
30:43It's silly.
30:44We dismiss it.
30:45I'm talking for Greg as a podcast.
30:47We dismiss ceiling talk.
30:49It's gone in the garbage.
30:52Um, speaking of that commanders.
30:56In the NFC championship grant, Greg, uh, they, they are, uh, one of those
31:00teams, certainly a contender.
31:01Now, uh, can the Patriots make that kind of a leap?
31:06Let me answer that.
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32:41So, uh, anyways, uh, the commanders, um, you know, and I've sort of talked about this on
32:48Felger and Maz a little bit with Xanis.
32:50Uh, but you know, the thing that I want people to understand about the commanders and what
32:56they've done this year is like, it's, they basically hit the lottery ticket.
33:00It's not just Jade and Daniels.
33:02I mean, everything worked for them.
33:05They tried to middle it.
33:06Okay.
33:06They tried to go, they, they definitely drafted.
33:10Well, they went with a lot of aging veterans who they're experienced.
33:15Unlike the Patriots coaches, their experienced coaches knew had been with, they knew that
33:21they would come in and do things.
33:22You had Cliff Kingsbury who was able to, uh, to scheme around an offensive line.
33:29That was pretty shaky.
33:30It's not that good.
33:31It's not that talented, but a capable offensive coordinator.
33:36Can like a Cliff Kingsbury, like a Josh McDaniels can scheme around that and make a bad line
33:42look better than it is.
33:43And I think that's what they did.
33:44You know, of course, Jaden Daniels has been, you know, outstanding, but they also, you
33:48know, they got lucky with, you know, the, uh, I mean, they brought in guys like, you
33:54know, Wiley, Eckler, uh, arts, Allegretti, Wagner, Lou Vu, Chin, Fowler, like, you know,
34:01all these guys, you know, they're aging veterans.
34:04Uh, you know, chin's not that old, but you know, none of these guys got hurt.
34:08I mean, Zach arts couldn't stay on the field of the previous, like five years.
34:12All of a sudden he plays 17 games this year.
34:14And so, you know, they got a little bit fortunate.
34:17Now I will say this, Nick, um, you know, I, I think Elliot Wolf and hopefully Ryan Cowden
34:25helps him with this.
34:26And I think he will.
34:27I think Rabel, I think they're, they're more apt to try the commander's approach this year
34:32than they were last year.
34:33But Elliot Wolf has a blind spot to, you know, the bringing in some veterans along with building
34:40through the draft, like doing it, like, because in where he's been, when he was with the Packers,
34:45when he was with the Browns with John Dorsey, all they tried to do was stockpile picks draft
34:52picks and, you know, just put those guys in play them get better that way.
34:57They did not, they ignored spending money or, you know, any sort of substantial money
35:03on veterans.
35:04And I think that's where, that's why the commanders had a bigger leap.
35:08Good for them.
35:08It could have went the other way.
35:10The Titans did the exact same thing and they ended up in the same place as the Patriots.
35:14You know, it did not work out, you know, for the Titans for a variety of ways, probably
35:18because they didn't have Jaden Daniels, but you know, a lot of those guys didn't work
35:22out that they signed.
35:23We thought, and I know some, you know, guys like Felger, they were like, the Titans had
35:28the ideal off season.
35:29Nobody talked about the commanders, you know, they, they looked at the Titan, look at the
35:34money they're spending.
35:35They, you know, all these guys that they signed, whether it was that running back offensive
35:39line, Calvin Ridley, you know, all this stuff you looked at and you're like, okay, you know,
35:44they're going after it.
35:45And they ended up like four and 13, like the Patriots.
35:48So what, what the commanders did was extremely rare.
35:51I do think the Patriots will try to do that.
35:53I do think now having people, whether it's McDaniels with the people that he brought
35:57in, in Las Vegas, you have riding counted and knowing the giants and the Titans.
36:02You have Vrabel, obviously knowing the Titans and the Browns.
36:06You have, uh, Terrell Williams knowing, uh, knowing the Titans.
36:11And where was he?
36:13Was he was Titans last year?
36:14Lions.
36:15Sorry.
36:16He knows the Lions.
36:17Like you have all these guys now coming in from different places who, who can vouch for
36:23players and be like, this guy's good.
36:26He's our kind of guy.
36:27That's, that's where I think, I think the Patriots are going to make their biggest impact
36:32sort of bringing, uh, bringing in those like mid-level veteran free agents, um, you know,
36:38like the urses, like the Eklers that can sort of raise the floor.
36:41So that's what I'm looking for out of the Patriots.
36:44I liked Vrabel's answer to the Greg Hill show when he was asked about free agency.
36:48And what he said is pretty much what you're saying.
36:49You know, everybody kind of pays attention to the, to the tippity top of, of, you know,
36:54the, the free agent signings, but there's a lot of other guys that, that sign contracts.
36:59And so, yeah, I think he might've also said this in the introductory press conference,
37:03but the idea of, Hey, I was one of those guys Vrabel has said, right.
37:07I was one of those guys that I teams weren't calling me.
37:10They weren't in love with the idea of bringing me in, but there was opportunity.
37:14So there's a couple of ways that you can skin the free agency cat.
37:18You can certainly go out there and spend top of the market money and bring in talent like
37:22a Ronnie Stanley or an Alaric Jackson or a T Higgins and the Patriots.
37:27I do think we'll at least try to do that, but we also have to remember, as Greg is mentioning,
37:33there are other free agents that can be quality signings that can build the depth of a football
37:38team and just make you better.
37:40And that's what ended up happening with Washington.
37:42And I think Vrabel is focused on doing both, you know, pitching those big names, but also
37:47not neglecting, not ignoring the idea of there are other guys who might not be super hot on
37:52the market, but guess what?
37:53They'll help us be a better football team.
37:56All right, let's run through some NFL news here quickly.
37:58Little lightning round for you before we get to our picks.
38:03Shad Khan, baby, uh, and Jacksonville, uh, decides to fire Trent Balky, who he decided
38:10to keep at the end of the season.
38:12He now has fired his GM in the middle of a head coaching search after Liam Cohen decided
38:17to drop out of the race.
38:19Uh, I mean, I am just, I'm not going to say stunned, but holy crap.
38:26What a mess.
38:28Yeah.
38:28I mean, just an absolute disaster.
38:30And I actually, I like Shad.
38:32I think he's a good owner in that he stays out of things and he empowers his people and
38:36then gets out of the way.
38:37He's not one of these owners that's, uh, even though you have to deal with his son,
38:41Tony Khan, who I also like, you know, who's part of the quote unquote analytics of the
38:46Jaguars, but at least, you know, Shad's not in there on Monday or after the game being
38:51like, why'd you do this?
38:52Why'd you do that?
38:53He gets, he, he empowers his people, but I don't know who's advising them on how they
39:00do these things.
39:00I mean, it was the same thing.
39:02Like when they, they kept Dave Caldwell for a while and kept, you know, it kept bringing
39:07in head coaches and like, you know, these arranged marriages, they never work.
39:11I mean, it was so predictable when they said, well, we're keeping Trent Balky that.
39:17People weren't going to like that setup.
39:19Like you want alignment and keeping Balky there, took that off the board.
39:24Now it's different.
39:26Um, I, I don't know what's going to happen.
39:29I don't know if people are going to come back to them and be like, okay, now I'm more open
39:32to it, but just a huge misstep.
39:35And these owners are idiots, even if they're very smart in business.
39:39Which brings me to Jerry Jones.
39:42So you got Mike McCarthy, you hold on to Mike McCarthy until the middle of January, you
39:48apparently did not even negotiate a contract with McCarthy as he just sat there on his
39:52contract.
39:53You didn't let him go to Chicago to interview, which makes you look petty and ridiculous.
39:57When all is said and done, you then decide we're not going to keep Mike McCarthy.
40:01You throw out Deon Sanders name to get a bunch of headlines because Jerry loves headlines.
40:05And now Greg, we're hearing that they're, they're close.
40:08They could be, they could be closing in on Brian Schottenheimer to be their next head
40:13coach.
40:14How you feeling about that?
40:15Just, I mean, this is like Jason Garrett all over again.
40:19Uh, Schottenheimer is like the offensive Dave Campo.
40:23I, and they just, they, Jerry and his ego, it needs somebody that they can push around.
40:30They just put somebody in there that'll listen to them and do what they want.
40:34And, uh, it's just like, why considering, especially two years ago, like look last year,
40:40especially defensively, uh, you know, Dan Quinn leaves, the talent went down on defense.
40:46Like most of their issues were on defense.
40:48The offensive line was a problem.
40:50Like most of their issues were in personnel.
40:52Two years ago, Dak Prescott had the best season of his career under Mike McCarthy.
40:57And now for what reason are you not going to re-sign Mike McCarthy?
41:02You really think that Brian Schottenheimer is an upgrade over, over Mike McCarthy?
41:06I mean, to me, when, when I, when they moved off from McCarthy, I'm like, it's either going
41:11to be Kellen Moore or it's going to be somebody like Brian Schottenheimer.
41:14And here we go.
41:15My guess was Kellen Moore.
41:17Um, just think about it.
41:21You know, the fact that Jerry kind of just waited with McCarthy, took him out of the
41:25conversations with other top guys like Frabel, like, uh, you know, Aaron Glenn, who we'll
41:30talk about in a second, Ben Johnson sitting around doing nothing with Mike McCarthy.
41:35You just wasted time.
41:36You literally just wasted time.
41:39And if I was going to put my tinfoil hat on, I could say maybe Schottenheimer's an interim
41:45head coach for a year until Bill Belichick is able to get out of that UNC contract.
41:50That's something dicey.
41:51How that's something to chew on.
41:53Boston sports talk.
41:54Let's go.
41:54I'm sure a lot, somebody will pick that up and run with it.
41:57Um, but can you really see, I mean, like, like Greg just said, Jerry Jones track record
42:04with coaches after Jimmy Johnson, can you imagine Belichick's ego versus Jerry Jones's
42:10ego in that building that that building would explode within two weeks?
42:14It would, it would literally just blow up.
42:17Um, Aaron Glenn to the jets.
42:18Do you like it?
42:21Uh, I'm not sure.
42:23I mean, I really, I mean, the only thing I know about Aaron Glenn, and I do think he
42:27did a nice job with the, with the lines defense as the, as the years went on.
42:32Um, and you know, they had a ton of injuries.
42:34They finally ran out of bodies, especially when Amik Robertson went out, um, you know,
42:39in that game against the commanders.
42:42Uh, so I know he's intense and I know the compete level is going to be up.
42:47I remember the hard knocks with the lions and he's talking trash with, you know, all
42:52the offensive coaches and going up against them and, uh, do Staley and all that stuff.
42:57I mean, that's, that's great.
42:59I have no idea what kind of head coach he's going to be.
43:02I mean, you know, obviously as a defensive head coach, his hiring, um, of the offensive
43:09coordinator is going to be the key thing and how long he stays and all that.
43:13So, um, look, if I'm the Patriots and I look at the landscape and the AFC East, I feel
43:20pretty good about having Mike Vrabel, um, at this point.
43:23I mean, I personally think that Vrabel is the best head coach in the vision, uh, even
43:28ahead of Sean McDermott, who I think almost cost the bills again in the game, uh, last
43:33weekend.
43:34Uh, we'll see how they do in Kansas city, but, um, you know, you know, we'll see, to
43:40me, it's all about the offense and they need a quarterback.
43:42So let's see what happens.
43:45Ben Johnson of Chicago.
43:46Was that the right hire?
43:48Yeah, I think so.
43:49I thought, I think that they had to go with Caleb Williams.
43:54Um, they had to go and get him an offensive system and offensive guru pair those guys
44:01together.
44:02Um, the Patriots got to that point in a roundabout way with Josh McDaniels, who probably
44:07isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
44:09Uh, but in, and it seems like Ben Johnson is certainly putting together, you know, good
44:16staff with, uh, I know Darren Rizzi has been mentioned, uh, defensive coordinator, possibly
44:22Dennis Allen, uh, all that stuff, you know, I don't know what's been done and what hasn't
44:26been done yet, but, uh, another guy we're going to have to see, like, what kind of head
44:30coach are you?
44:31I mean, you know, uh, I've always thought the world of Josh McDaniels, but, um, him
44:36as a head coach did not work out well twice for different reasons.
44:40Um, but you know, who who's Ben Johnson going to be as a head coach.
44:45We'll have to see, but I think it at least gives Caleb Williams a much better chance
44:49to live up to that number.
44:50First overall draft pick.
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46:35Bedard Giardi tag teaming this Patriots coverage.
46:38A lot of news coming out.
46:39A lot more news.
46:40I'm sure we'll be coming out.
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47:14Commanders Eagles Eagles giving six who you got.
47:20I like the Eagles in their run game.
47:22If there's one weakness on the commanders, it's their defense against the run.
47:27I just think the Eagles are just too good, too big up front.
47:30They played each other twice.
47:33Eagles won the first one.
47:34The commanders won the second one, but that's when hurts got hurt.
47:37Kellen or I don't even know if they played people.
47:40All I know is Kellen.
47:42No, what's his name?
47:44Kenny Pickett played that game for the Eagles.
47:47I think hurts got hurt in that game and he got concussed.
47:51He got concussed.
47:54I like the Eagles in this game.
47:56I don't think that they cover.
47:58I think it's going to be close.
47:59I think it's going to be back and forth, but I do think the Eagles just at the end of the day
48:03being at home, their big physical offensive line, uh, Saquon Barkley, uh, Jalen hurts.
48:10We'll have to see how hurt he is in terms of Kenny.
48:14Kenny run and be a factor like he was last weekend.
48:18So I, I like, I like the commanders to cover, but the Eagles to win.
48:26I like the Eagles.
48:27I would pick the Eagles minus the six.
48:29If I knew how healthy Jalen hurts was that that's such a big question to me.
48:32Uh, so I do think this game could be closer because of that.
48:36Saquon Barkley has played the commanders twice this year.
48:39I think he has a combined almost 300 yards of rushing yards.
48:43So the commanders have not been able to stop Saquon Barkley.
48:47Uh, but again, if the quarterback is banged up, man, it's such a tough call.
48:51I guess I'll take the commanders with the points.
48:54I wish I had more information on, uh, on hurts.
48:56All right.
48:57Bills at the chiefs, chiefs minus one and a half.
49:01Um, I, I really, I really want to pick the bills.
49:06I think it's their time, but I don't know.
49:10I just can't.
49:10I just, and it's because of Sean McDermott.
49:12I mean, I just don't, I just think he got lucky.
49:16He got, he got Uber conservative to open up the second half when
49:20they needed to put the pedal down.
49:22Um, I think that Andy Reed and Spagnuolo have a big advantage
49:27over Joe Brady and Sean McDermott.
49:30Um, I don't think the bills will be afraid.
49:33I think that'll be a great game.
49:35Um, but I see the chiefs winning a game by three, just because they,
49:40they know how to do it.
49:41And the bills and Sean McDermott do not.
49:44Give me the bills, baby.
49:45Come on.
49:46Whoa, give me, this is more of an emotional choice.
49:49I'm going with Buffalo.
49:50Come on.
49:50Somebody is going to knock off my homes and Andy Reed.
49:52Enough is enough.
49:53I've seen enough of them in the super bowl.
49:55I, I do not need to see the chiefs again in the super bowl this year.
50:00Give me the Buffalo bills again.
50:02More emotional.
50:03That's, that's more with my heart than my head.
50:05He's Greg.
50:06I'm Nick.
50:07I got to go eat lunch.
50:08I don't know what he's doing, but enjoy your weekend.
50:11Everybody, uh, be awesome.
50:12Enjoy the football back early next week.