The Patriots are bringing back Josh McDaniels as offensive coordinator for his third stint in the role. Kirk Minihane reports McDaniels interviewed Monday and secured the job, rejoining the organization under Mike Vrabel's leadership to work with rookie QB Drake Maye.
Join 98.5 The Sports Hub's Alex Barth and Pats Pulpit's Brian Hines live as they break down what this move means for the Patriots' offense and the season ahead.
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Join 98.5 The Sports Hub's Alex Barth and Pats Pulpit's Brian Hines live as they break down what this move means for the Patriots' offense and the season ahead.
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SportsTranscript
00:00All right, everyone, welcome back into another live edition and a breaking news edition of
00:29the Patriots Beat Podcast here on the CLNS Media Network, presented by our wonderful
00:34friends over at Price Picks and Game Time.
00:37It's Brian Hines back as always with Alex Barth.
00:40And we are here late night on this Tuesday because the Patriots have a new offensive
00:44coordinator.
00:45They have hired Josh McDaniels, kind of the expected hire all along.
00:50It seemed like this is where it was trending.
00:52He was viewed by many as the favorite ever since Mike Frabel was named the head coach.
00:56So Josh McDaniels for the third time is now back as the New England Patriots.
01:00Third time's the charm, right?
01:01Third time is the charm, although the first two times weren't that bad, right?
01:05Well, that's what I'm saying.
01:06So this one's even better.
01:08If they won six Super Bowls the first two times, what's the third time the charm going
01:13to look like with this one?
01:15But Josh McDaniels is Mike Frabel's choice for offensive coordinator there.
01:20So Barth, just opening thoughts.
01:22I know it's someone we've talked a lot about, obviously, but just now that it is, it looks
01:26like not officially confirmed, but this is where it is heading towards.
01:31Just what are your thoughts there with Josh McDaniels?
01:32I think it's a good hire.
01:34You know, I said that I kind of wanted to see if Mike Frabel would go find his own Ben
01:38Johnson.
01:39They talked to the guy in Minnesota today, whose name I'm blanking on, but he was probably
01:48a step or two away, but a guy like that.
01:50But I don't think McDaniels is a bad hire at all.
01:53They're certainly upside here.
01:54One, the thing that everybody was crying about when they hired Mike Frabel, that they'd have
01:59no continuity and offense coordinator.
02:01I'm sorry.
02:02Nobody's hiring Josh McDaniels as head coach.
02:03If it goes that well, Drake May's an MVP, so we don't really need to worry about who's
02:08coaching because he's just that good.
02:12Not that he can't be without it, but if someone's hiring Josh McDaniels, Drake May might have
02:17to do more than just win an MVP.
02:18Drake May through 60 touchdowns, right?
02:20If Josh McDaniels gets a head coaching job, but, um, you have that continuity.
02:24You have a guy that is very experienced.
02:26I've seen people be like Josh McDaniels offense, this Josh McDaniels offense that does he call
02:31too many screens?
02:32Yeah.
02:33Yeah.
02:34He probably does.
02:35But when you look at that compared to the issues with some other offensive coordinators
02:39around the league, I absolutely, you'll absolutely live with it.
02:42What Josh McDaniels does so well is he molds his offense around the personnel he has.
02:46Yes, he was with Brady for a long time and that's thought of as the McDaniels offense,
02:51but one that was as complex as it was as much because of Brady as it was McDaniels, they'd
02:56spent so much time together.
02:57They kept adding and adding and adding to it.
02:59I don't think they're going to throw the full Tom Brady playbook at Drake May on day one.
03:04He changed the offense, certainly for cam Newton.
03:07He changed it for Mack Jones.
03:08You could argue almost to a fault.
03:10I think that's part of the reason he gets those, that screen merchant label is because
03:15he threw so many screens with Mack Jones, but you look what happened the next year when
03:19Matt Patricia came in and had it going bombs away and maybe there's a reason they were
03:23throwing all of those screens.
03:24Right.
03:25So there really isn't, you know, what's in Josh McDaniels bag.
03:29What is it in his bag?
03:31It's, it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's an EP system, I guess, technically, but he can go, you know,
03:37there's, there, there's gap, there's zone running, um, they'll, they'll throw the ball
03:41to all three levels.
03:42Obviously they're going to have their preferences.
03:43They're going to have their tendencies, which is kind of cool to see.
03:46Like the slot receiver is going to be a thing again, absolutely.
03:50The offense running through that position.
03:52I would think we're going back to situational running backs and not just, all right, this
03:57is Ramon Drey's drive.
03:58This is Antonio Gibson's drive.
03:59It's you're going to have your early down, back, you're going to have your third down
04:02back, whether that is the guys currently here or they're replaced, I think is a, you know,
04:06a conversation that we'll have.
04:09But it's, it's, it's an offense that I think he can make work for Drake May and assuming
04:14he tailors it to Drake May, it doesn't try to get Drake made to fit his system.
04:19A lot of the things we wanted last year, a layered passing game, a quarterback run game,
04:24um, tempo, more tempo, right?
04:27That that slot receiver role, more reliance or more reliability from the running backs.
04:31A lot of that is going to come with Josh McDaniel.
04:33So I think it's a good hire.
04:35I think it's good for Drake May.
04:37I think is he the best possible hire you could have made for Drake May?
04:40That was probably Josh McCown just because of the familiarity.
04:43But I think that this helps Drake May.
04:44I think that this is a good hire for Drake May.
04:46It's a good hire for the offense.
04:48It gives them a solid floor and, um, you know, assuming they add the talent needed.
04:53It's a step in the right direction.
04:54If they give him a Darian Lewitt tackle in case shot booty is the number one X receiver.
04:58Yeah.
04:59It's probably not going to work.
05:00Wouldn't have worked with Ben Johnson either.
05:01It wouldn't have worked with, with Liam Cone either wouldn't have worked with Tommy Reese
05:05either.
05:07But if they add the talent they need to add and McDaniel's is going to know exactly what
05:09he wants.
05:11I think it's a good hire and a good step in the right direction.
05:13Yeah.
05:14I, I kind of looked at this like, you know, we had our Ben Johnson versus Mike for able
05:18debate where you can take the big shot and go with Ben Johnson or play it on the safer
05:23side with more experienced Mike for able.
05:26And that's kind of what this looks like with, with Josh McDaniels.
05:29And that's why I get a lot of people upset with, you know, a retread.
05:33We're just doing this again, playing it close to the vest.
05:36And I get a lot of that and I wouldn't have been opposed where, okay, we played it as
05:42someone who was team Ben Johnson originally, like, okay, we played it a little safer with
05:46Mike for able let's take a shot here at the office.
05:49And maybe it is that grant you didn't ski who, you know, 28 year old who was enough.
05:54He was probably still a step or two away, but like Josh McCown would have been perfect
05:58if he w he was interested, but you know, try to find your next tight pants guy, as we like
06:03to say all the time.
06:04And I think that would have been a really good path.
06:06On the other side, like hiring Josh McDaniels, like hiring Mike Vrabel compared to Ben Johnson
06:11isn't a bad move, right?
06:13Like Josh McDaniels is still really good offensive coordinator.
06:17He's got tons of experience.
06:18He's a proven history of developing and working with quarterbacks outside of Tom Brady, right?
06:23Like Matt castle even had a career year.
06:26I know he was thrown into Randy Moss and West Walker, but you know, Matt castle looked really
06:30good.
06:31We saw even 2020 cam Newton for the first month until he got COVID and the whole team
06:36got COVID and then it completely fell apart.
06:37Like there was some promising signs there.
06:40That's what you're probably looking for a little bit more with this Drake may offense.
06:43Like you're getting cam, cam Newton, getting the legs, getting the quarterback run game
06:47involved.
06:48So I definitely, I wouldn't have been opposed to, you know, taking your shot at the offensive
06:53coordinator position, but you can't say you're going wrong here with Josh McDaniels.
06:58Cause I'll be, wasn't a candidate with more experience, a calling plays and be working
07:03with in developing quarterbacks out there at, at OC, then, then Josh.
07:09Yeah.
07:10So now they're just going to hire the right wide receivers coach.
07:14That's that's big.
07:16So I did have some like concerns, I guess.
07:20And one was developing those receivers cause that was an issue in this system.
07:25What we'll see what the system is like.
07:26You're not expecting it again to be that the whole Tom Brady playbook and he will transform
07:32it a little bit.
07:33So developing receivers was definitely one of those.
07:37Maybe worrisome.
07:38So I have a couple of worries, different level of concerns, but that, that was one of them
07:43really need a good wide receivers coach in there, you know, Chad O'Shea, Wes Welker are
07:48probably names to watch, but Heinz Ward, yep.
07:53They wouldn't have a relationship, but with Vrabel, he had a relationship, but no, they,
07:57oh yeah.
07:58With Vrabel, not with Josh, but yeah, that, that's definitely something.
08:03I don't know.
08:04Where do you think Jalen Polk?
08:06I don't think Jayvon Baker probably loves this news, but you know, developing these
08:09young receivers with Josh, it wasn't great at the end of his time here.
08:14And now we'll see how it kind of looks going forward, but he's going to come in and put
08:17those guys right through it.
08:18He's going to find out right away where those guys can be a part of it or not.
08:22And if they can't, I mean, I think they're, they're both replaceable.
08:26So yeah, Baker, this is a tough fit for Jayvon Baker.
08:30He's going to have an uphill battle to make the team this year.
08:33Polk is a second round pick, might get a little more leash and look, McDaniels was able to
08:38figure it out with Jacoby Myers and that was the comp, right?
08:40But you're already a year into this guy's career.
08:43We saw like the mental issues come through last year that, that, that wasn't an issue
08:47of physical ability and that stuff can get really tricky.
08:51I don't think that Jalen Polk's going to have much of a leash and they're going to have
08:54somebody ready in that slot position.
08:58If not ahead of Polk to start, uh, that's, you know, right there that if it doesn't work
09:03with Polk, they can just plug him in and feel good about it.
09:05So, um, you know, maybe that's pop Douglas.
09:07I know people would think of pop Douglas going right in the slot.
09:10I actually think he's probably more of a Z and McDaniels offense, just because when you're
09:15in the slot in this offense, you're going over the middle.
09:17You're taking a lot of big hits, higher volume too.
09:20Yeah.
09:21And we've seen pop as good of a player as he is.
09:23And I still think there's a place for me in this offense.
09:26He struggles with volume because the, just the physicality of it.
09:30So, um, they'll, I'm sure they'll use him different ways, but if we're talking about,
09:35you know, who's your West Welker, who's your Julian Edelman, who's your Jacoby Myers.
09:41That is probably not on the roster right now.
09:43Hey, you know, Xavier Restrepo is the first name that comes to mind, um, for me, or a
09:49mecca booker.
09:50Really?
09:51I just don't know how the picture is going to draft him.
09:52Cause he's going to go like at the end of the first round and they're going to have
09:55to move up to get them or move down or whatever.
09:57They're not picking him at four and they're not picking him at 38.
09:59Let's put it that way.
10:01But, um, yeah, they're, they're going to need like a, a true slot receiver.
10:06Yeah.
10:07It'll be interesting to see how that, that kind of unfolds.
10:09I'll tell you some of my other concerns and you can tell me if I'm crazy or if you see
10:13it, uh, the same, I had just kind of the pre-snap stuff because that was something with Josh.
10:20He put it all on the quarterback, right.
10:22With Tom Brady, you can do that because it's fricking Tom Brady.
10:26He's seen everything in the world.
10:27He's smarter than everyone.
10:29Like you can put it all on Brady and he did it with cam and he did it with Mac.
10:33And I think it kind of hurt Mac cause at the end, cause you know, he just had so much going
10:37on and you saw last year with van Pelt, like a lot of these West coast systems do, they
10:42put the pre-snap stuff, the checks, the protections on the center and it lets the quarterback
10:47play, play a little bit more free, I think.
10:50So I'm guessing Josh will want to put that back on the quarterback, which I don't necessarily
10:55love putting that all on your 22, 23 year old quarterback.
10:58I do think Drake is probably smart enough that he can handle it, but that's just something
11:03else that you add to his plate pretty early on here, as well as, you know, we're, we're
11:08talking changing languages again in the offense, which again, I think Drake will, will is smart
11:13enough.
11:14You hear so much praise with him about that stuff, but it just could be a lot of moving
11:18parts, especially with that pre-snaps pre-snap stuff at the line of scrimmage.
11:22If the responsibility does go back on him under McDaniels here.
11:26Well, I wonder if that's somewhere where Josh McDaniels is willing to adjust and kind of
11:30seeing how well it worked last year, put some of that on David Andrews and is willing to
11:34be flexible on that.
11:35Maybe it all goes to Drake may eventually, but this year is kind of a transition.
11:38You have David Andrews call more upfront.
11:41That would definitely be something that, that could be done.
11:45Yep.
11:46It's a fair worry.
11:47Yeah.
11:48You don't want to overload the kid right away.
11:50Ideally they get to the point where they can do some of that high level stuff they did
11:53with Brady, but not, I mean, we're talking three, four years down the road, not this
11:57year.
11:58I don't like if they came out and just put everything on him right away.
12:01Like that would, I wouldn't be a huge fan of that.
12:04The other one kind of outside the box, you know, talking about acquiring talent, acquiring
12:09players.
12:10Do you think this will have any impact on offensive, you know, free agent additions?
12:16Because I think Vrabel will help in that case.
12:19You know, he has a really good reputation, it seems around the league, but the last we
12:22heard of Josh McDaniels, it was, he's getting fired from Vegas and players are celebrating
12:28in the locker room.
12:29They're lighting cigars after they win without them.
12:32And I know any former Patriot player you talk to raves about Josh McDaniels.
12:36They love working with Josh McDaniels, but someone like T Higgins say like, he's never
12:41been here unless Teddy Karras is chatting his ear off about how good Josh McDaniels
12:47was, which I doubt, like, do you think the perception outside of Foxborough and outside
12:51of this building could maybe scare some people off coming to work here with them?
12:56Maybe I think players are smart enough to separate the head coach and the coordinator.
13:01Right.
13:03I also, if the tape's there, the evidence is there because these guys do their research.
13:07They're going to go somewhere that they want to be successful.
13:09And if you're one of those kinds of players that fits in the McDaniels offense and you
13:14put on the tape and you see what guys have done under him, I think that speaks for itself.
13:19So, you know, maybe certain individuals just kind of look at the Vegas stuff and say, yeah,
13:24I don't want to deal with it, but that was a long time ago in the NFL.
13:27And, um, if he can pitch the plan properly to certain players, Higgins, my, my issue
13:32with Higgins would be, he's never really used a player like that successfully in his offense.
13:37I think that would be a bigger issue than the Vegas stuff.
13:39It would just be, what is his role going to be?
13:42You know, is it, I'm trying to think, well, Parker got here in 22, right?
13:47So he didn't have to be like Parker here in 21.
13:51He was at a Patricia thing.
13:55I think that was a Patricia thing.
13:56I think so.
13:57Like Brandon LaFelle, like in 2014, I get, yeah.
14:02And we're going, yeah, I was 22 for Parker.
14:05Yeah.
14:06We're going way back now.
14:07So, you know, if you're a player like that, like that'd be a bigger issue for Higgins
14:11and show me how I'm successful in your offense.
14:13And I don't know that Josh McDaniels can do that.
14:15You know, if it's a burner, if it's a speedster guy, you show him Brandon cooks, that's easy.
14:19But yeah, that, that, that would worry me more than the Vegas perception.
14:26Uh, yeah.
14:27Show them Nelson Aguilar.
14:28That'll, this is how we use Nelson Aguilar, that'll sell them on it.
14:33That would, that would be the bigger issue for me.
14:35Yeah.
14:36But I mean, on the flip side, I, I'm trying to think of who like the top slot receivers
14:41are in free agency or Godwin.
14:44Yeah.
14:45You show like Chris Godwin, how they use the guy like Brandon cooks or how they use the
14:48guy like Danny Amendola.
14:51It's like, Hey, this is the role we have for you.
14:53And you're, you're going to put up numbers in that.
14:56So that, that's something that could, you know, help sell, sell a free.
15:00I think that's going to do more than just the Vegas stuff.
15:03Yep.
15:04Those are just some of my concerns that came to mind.
15:06Uh, immediately I probably should have made a pros list too, because I don't hate Josh
15:09McDaniels.
15:10I guess pros would know you're just still bitter about Ben Johnson.
15:13It's fine.
15:14We know how it is.
15:15Uh, sorry.
15:16I wanted them to take a shot once in a while.
15:19Come on.
15:20But, uh, I, I, the experience obviously is a pro the run game.
15:23I love Josh McDaniels run game.
15:25Like it's so diverse, you know, you talk gap, uh, wide zone, like I think in Vegas, he was
15:31incorporating a lot of that zone stuff.
15:33You know, you hope we'll, we'll talk about more Drake may here in a second, but we saw
15:37glimpses of the quarterback run game with cam new and fullback fullback is all the way
15:41back now you would imagine.
15:44And then, um, what else is a pro?
15:47I guess I, I hate when people say this as their first pro, but he's not going to leave.
15:52And that's, I think important.
15:54I'm not hiring a guy just because he's not going to leave if there was a better option
15:57out there.
15:58But, uh, now that he is here, I do think it is important to, you know, you, you will have
16:01some continuity because it'll take a lot.
16:04You have to figure for, for another team to look, I think we're all kind of scarred about
16:07what happened last time and, and have a pipeline, even if it is Josh McDaniels have a pipeline
16:12because you don't, like, you don't know what's going to happen.
16:15It's the NFL.
16:16He could leave for any number of reasons.
16:18So have that, but there is that, there is that familiarity there.
16:22I think the biggest pro is just how adaptive he is.
16:27And when people say they don't like Josh McDaniel system, that doesn't really mean anything.
16:32His system is so all encompassing and we've seen him reinvent himself in little ways and
16:36in big ways in the past.
16:38So assuming he does that again, they're going to be in good shape.
16:41I can't reiterate this enough with a rookie Mack Jones, he had the sixth highest scoring
16:46offense in the NFL.
16:48And I know people will, you know, point to, Oh, we put up 50 on a bad Jacksonville team
16:54one.
16:55I'll take this Patriots team putting up 50 on anybody right now.
16:57I don't really care who it is.
16:59I'll take 30, 30, right.
17:00I'll take 30.
17:02And there's like a, there's a 50 point game against the Jags.
17:06And then I think it's like 48 against the jets.
17:08There were two really high scoring games that year.
17:12You take those out.
17:13They were still, I think 10th, 11th, something like that in scoring, which they barely averaged
17:19two touchdowns a game this year.
17:21Okay.
17:22It's going to be the offense is if it's not improved, it's a talent issue.
17:27It's a roster talent issue.
17:29He can put up, he can design an offense that puts up points.
17:32There's never really been a bad Josh McDaniels offense.
17:36Even if you want to take, I know Tom Brady carried a lot of that, but even if you want
17:39to take Tom Brady out of it, like he was good with that is statistically the 2020 offense
17:48ranked 27th.
17:50But that was frankly getting that team to 21 points a game, which is still that team
17:56averaged a whole touchdown more than they've essentially averaged the last two years.
18:00You add with the ghost of Ben Watson and like Matt LaCoste and Demir bird wide receiver
18:06one out there.
18:07Cam Newton was great to cover.
18:08I don't want to disrespect the guy, but cam was washed.
18:11Your number one receiver was to me or bird Nikhil Harry played a very significant role
18:17on that team.
18:18Ryan is a, was your top tight end.
18:20That was the Dalton keen Devon Aussie Aussie here, and he got them to three touchdowns
18:26a game.
18:27Not bad.
18:28No, it's not bad, but, um, he, he makes it work with what he has.
18:33And the idea is you're going to give him more and more over the next couple of years.
18:36But it, he makes it work with what he has.
18:40And he's never had a, I know he had, again, he had Tom Brady, but he's never had a quarterback
18:44with Drake Mays skillset.
18:46And if you watch the games with names clip on Edelman's podcast, you know, he seemed
18:50to be a real fan.
18:51It was in, it was back during the preseason.
18:53He did seem to be a really big fan of Drake May.
18:56So I want to talk about him a little bit more, but before we do that, I also want to tell
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20:13Run your game.
20:14All right.
20:15We just mentioned Josh Drake may never really had a quarterback like this.
20:21What are you kind of expecting out of Josh?
20:24Cause you mentioned that he is so versatile.
20:26You see a lot of different things in his offense.
20:29We even had, uh, the reports, I think it was deuce who started at Mike do so that, you
20:33know, Josh spent some time at different college programs.
20:36I know he was at, uh, the Ohio state spring game, you know, before the season started.
20:40So maybe he's adapting a little bit to more of some of these college styles, but what
20:45are you expecting when we get out there in the spring and we get out there in training
20:49camp from Josh with Drake may under center now?
20:53Yeah.
20:54I don't really know.
20:55That's part of the fun part of it.
20:56He has so many different ways.
20:57He can adapt this.
20:58I things I'm going to be watching for the, some of that college stuff, especially RPOs.
21:02Do we get more of that?
21:03Do we get more of the pistol?
21:05That's something we really wanted to see last year.
21:07That was pretty limited.
21:08Um, and then the big question, like, I think Josh McDaniels would do a good job molding
21:14what he wants to do around Drake may the one area that I wonder if he kind of steps in
21:20and says, no, this is like going to be more what I want is the under center shotgun split.
21:27And I, I do wonder if they were, cause we know Josh McDaniels wants to work from under
21:29center, right?
21:31Is there going to be more work put in on Drake Mase under center game so they can run some
21:36of the play action and some of the jet sweep stuff that, that comes along with that?
21:41Yeah.
21:42I think cam was like top five in play action and his one year here.
21:47So you'll see a lot of that.
21:49And that was one of the things on games with names that Josh really highlighted, uh, with
21:54Drake just in the preseason.
21:55And I think it was specifically talking about the commander's game where he played a lot
21:58was like him under center and then stepping up in the pocket.
22:02He was really impressed that how such a young age, like he was able to work the pocket,
22:06uh, and step up and not afraid of the rush.
22:09So, um, definitely, you know, that, that's kind of a staple with Josh.
22:13You'll, you'll expect a lot of that excited to see Drake in that play action though.
22:17We didn't see much of that.
22:18Like he's really good throwing over the middle of the field.
22:21We're definitely going to see more play action.
22:23I think he's going to, they're going to be hammering the middle of the field.
22:25I expect them to be, uh, you know, however you want to measure it, frequencies, success
22:31rate, whatever.
22:32Um, they're going to, they're going to be one of the more involved middle of the field
22:36teams of the league this year.
22:37I would think.
22:38Yep.
22:39So a lot of play action.
22:40Um, you will, I, I don't think we'll have to wait till week 16 as well to see a design
22:45design quarterback run this year because, uh, maybe it looks a little bit different
22:50than cam.
22:51There's a lot of big power downhill, but, um, or, or do we get a Joe Milton package?
23:01Do we get a Joe Milton full house package?
23:03That is kind of directly.
23:05Some of the cam Newton stuff.
23:06Like I wanted that last year.
23:07I still want that.
23:08You get that.
23:09Remember that, that full house they did the, the, um, the too tight at, well, no, but it
23:14was, it became back on either, uh, running back fullback and then another running back
23:19behind them.
23:20Yeah.
23:21And then they'd motion one of those guys out and run off of that.
23:22Like put Joe Milton in that man.
23:24And you can run quarterback power all day out of that.
23:27So we need a, we need a Drake may passing touchdown to Joe Milton at some point.
23:32Yes.
23:33That would be perfect.
23:34We know Josh will get in the lab a little bit, so why not the other way around?
23:38What about Joe Milton?
23:39The Drake make that to either, or it would be fantastic.
23:41I feel like Drake may have probably be a better route runner.
23:44I feel like he's a little more fleet of foot, more nimble.
23:47Yeah.
23:49Well, people wanted Joe Milton to become a tight end.
23:51Remember, wasn't that a thing during like the senior bowl last year?
23:53Yeah.
23:54And then he got asked about it.
23:55He said that would never happen.
23:56He was exactly right to say that.
23:57Yeah.
23:58Way to shut up the haters, Joe, but, um, yeah, definitely play action, tacky middle, middle
24:03of the field.
24:04Uh, we'll, we'll see the quarterback run game, uh, D at a super chat.
24:09He says, nobody wants to see McDaniel's outdated scheme.
24:12I get people joking about deep.
24:15What is his scheme?
24:16I get people.
24:17What his scheme is.
24:18Don't regurgitate a point from social media.
24:20Love to joke about, you know, the third and 10 screens or the toss on third and four that
24:27gets blown up.
24:28But I, Josh McDaniel's scheme is not outdated.
24:32It would be great if he added maybe a little more, you know, that window dressing before
24:36the snap.
24:37Sure.
24:38And maybe that's what, uh, he learned going to these different colleges and at Ohio state,
24:43I would not call Josh McDaniel's scheme.
24:47Very outdated there.
24:48They're not going to be out here running the viewer.
24:52Maybe they will.
24:53Who knows with all these different quarterbacks and fullbacks out there, but that's true.
24:56We are getting a fullback back.
24:57Robbie Hoots, baby.
24:58It's Robbie Hoots season.
24:59Okay.
25:00There we go.
25:01But, uh, you did mention, uh, attacking the middle of the field.
25:05We talked a little about pop Douglas, those rookie receivers.
25:08Who else do you think on the current roster will benefit the most from Josh coming back?
25:13We already Kendrick Bourne was, you know, sharing his excitement on social media.
25:18It wasn't a surprise.
25:19You know, he had a career year, uh, under Josh in 21, his first year here at one point.
25:25Yeah.
25:26Anyone else you think on this team that gets positively or negatively affected by, by Josh
25:32coming back?
25:34So positively, I would say pop.
25:37I think his role is going to change, but I think this is good for him.
25:40Um, like, uh, like you said, Kendrick Bourne, I think this probably helps for Andre, just
25:47the way they balance the running back workload.
25:50The last couple of years he got, they were just running them into the ground by the end
25:53of the season.
25:54Nick Daniels is very good about balancing running backs is the Antonio Gibson, your
25:58third down back.
25:59Do they go out and they get another guy?
26:00That's another, you know, that's another conversation we'll kind of have as we get further into
26:06the off season.
26:07Um, I think Hunter Henry benefits.
26:09We know Josh McDaniel is good with the tight end, obviously Drake may guys who don't benefit
26:13Jayvon Baker, Jalen Polk wanted to clearly at the top of that list, very clearly at the
26:18top of that list.
26:19Uh, I don't know that either one is going to Baker's going to struggle to make team
26:24and you know, Jalen Polk's second round pick, but he plays a role that's so crucial.
26:29They're going to have a plan B if not somebody to start over him immediately with him as
26:33the backup.
26:34They're going to have a high level plan B ready and he'll have a quick hook, um, Cole
26:38strange too.
26:39Cause they're going to go back to running gap, running power and Cole strange is not
26:43built for that.
26:44Um, maybe he's playing center and that's, that's his role, but I would expect them to
26:48go find themselves, you know, Layton Robinson too.
26:51I'd put him on the downs.
26:52Uh, how big is he?
26:54He's not that big.
26:55Right.
26:56Yeah.
26:57Six, three, three 11 he's.
27:00I would say him and Caden Wallace though would be better.
27:04You know, they're powerful guys.
27:05Like I think they would be better more getting downhill than more of the zone stuff, but
27:10I just, I think they're going to go find themselves another, you know, six to 325 pound guard.
27:19That's just a city.
27:20So back, ah, you know what?
27:22Good call.
27:23Good call.
27:24City.
27:25So might be back.
27:26How big is a, I have an old roster right here.
27:28Let me see.
27:29Let me see here.
27:30City.
27:31So six, five, three 18, six, but he plays bigger now you have city.
27:34So put on 10 pounds.
27:36He's a Josh McDaniels card.
27:38That would be a wild card city.
27:39So just back from the dead under Josh McDaniels, but I've always liked city.
27:43So I'm all for that, but I would not be surprised.
27:46They go get themselves, like try to find themselves a Michael and went to for the left side.
27:50Yep.
27:51Um, yeah, I, I agree with most of those KB Mondre Hunter Henry is my big one, you know,
27:56talking about those play action over the middle of the field.
27:59Like he had a career high nine touchdowns, uh, with, with Josh here and 21, so that'll
28:04be a big one.
28:05Pop is a pop.
28:06I think it might be the most interesting just because I agree.
28:10I still think he can have a role, but if he's not like Julian Edelman or West Walker, he,
28:16he could be Danny Amendola, but he's not going to be your a hundred catch slot guy probably.
28:21So is there an upgrade, you know, a Bucca would be unreal, but is there one of those
28:26maybe day two upgrades or could they trade for Josh Jones?
28:31Is Josh Downs available in Indianapolis?
28:33Like
28:34that Downs would be a great one for strepo would fit.
28:37I think pop titanium dole is a good call.
28:39Maybe you kind of carve out some of the Brandon cook stuff and have pop run that because Josh
28:45would create a new role for a guy too.
28:47And, and pops got kind of a unique skillset.
28:49So, um, maybe there's some other role that may, maybe it's like a, um, um, not time Montgomery
28:59cause he didn't play that way, but like one of those guys that like gets used as both
29:03a running back and receiver, that kind of thing.
29:05I could see pop may be doing something like that.
29:07Yeah.
29:08I was like, it's probably good for Marcus Jones.
29:11You don't think I do think, I do think it's good.
29:13However much they're going to let him play offense.
29:16I trust Josh McDaniels will have some wrinkles with that.
29:18Um, Josh McDaniels probably, uh, knows Marcus Jones plays offense, but, um,
29:22How about a Marcus Jones touchdown pass to Joe Milton?
29:26All right.
29:27Now you're getting a little crazy.
29:30What is, what is the craziest combination that the chances can't be zero.
29:34I don't want to hear like Christian Barber touchdown pass, right?
29:38Yeah.
29:39Josh is, Josh is not afraid to, you know, double passes, reverses, like he'll dial this
29:44thing up.
29:45Put it in the comments or tweet at us.
29:47Like the craziest pass combination touchdown that you think we could actually see this
29:53year.
29:54I think I'm sticking with that.
29:55I'm sticking with Marcus Jones, Joe Milton, the past few years he had the, uh, it was
30:00Kendrick Bourne to Nelson Aguilar.
30:02Remember in the jets game.
30:04Um, what else was there?
30:08Last year was Drake made of Darian Lowe.
30:10Probably.
30:11Yeah.
30:12He had a Jacobi Meyers to Cam Newton, Jacobi Edelman would always have a couple.
30:20There's never been.
30:21Yeah.
30:22Marcus Jones to Joe Milton would be, it would be crazy.
30:27Someone says J Balvin, Marcus Jones.
30:28Oh wait, where'd that go?
30:29There's a couple of good ones here.
30:30So he built a Marcus Jones.
30:32This is a really good one.
30:34Savion Williams, Joe, I, I I'm out on them for Savion Williams now though, because out,
30:41Oh, well, all right.
30:42Let's talk this through.
30:43I was, I was watching Savion Williams earlier today, the play against, I think it was a
30:48Texas when he catches it and then he pulls away from everyone and you're like, wow, those
30:52are some wheels.
30:53And then he hurdles the guy like that was incredible, but he's fun.
30:57He's nifty.
30:58I will.
30:59So Josh McDaniels was John Smith, whether it's Nikhil Harry.
31:03One concern for Josh McDaniels is he's never been good with scheme touch players.
31:10He's never really figured that out except, except for with Cordero Patterson.
31:17So Cordero Patterson is the very easy, very obvious comp for Savion Williams.
31:22So unless Josh McDaniels also sees that I'm out because Savion Williams is the kind of
31:27player that I saw Josh McDaniels bungle way too many times, but if they're going to use
31:31him like primarily as a running back and turn them into Cordero Patterson, then I could
31:36be sold on it.
31:37This was a good one.
31:39Yeah.
31:40Is it a May to Keon White?
31:42Like yeah.
31:43I'm like for Abel Keon White had some time.
31:44He was a tight end before it was over.
31:47So that's all played fullback last summer.
31:49Yeah.
31:50That that one is out of these crazy combinations.
31:53That one might be on the little bit more realistic.
31:55That's a little bit more realistic.
31:56Yeah.
31:57It's probably more realistic than Marcus Jones to Keon White.
31:59I don't think you get two defensive players.
32:01You might get one.
32:03Michael and Wenu to Marcus Jones to Joe Milton.
32:06So we're direct snapping the ball to Michael.
32:08All right.
32:09We may have lost the plot here, but Darian Lowe to Drake may that one may Ben Johnson
32:15would have done it.
32:16Yeah.
32:17I would have been the pen.
32:18I'll put that in the realistic enough.
32:20Well, no, because the Darian Lowe shouldn't be the tackle, but true week eight week eight
32:28when the Darian Lowe has to start a game because whoever tackles her, how about Will Campbell
32:32to Drake May?
32:34Will Campbell to Drake May?
32:35Is he playing guard, though, or tackle?
32:37Because guard would be tricky to get him the ball.
32:40You really tackle eligible stuff that, yeah, the unbalanced I'm going to go back.
32:47I watched the second half of the twenty fourteen divisional game against the Ravens last week
32:50because I just I have no life and they were doing some fun stuff.
32:54I might have to go watch that again.
32:56That stuff was great, but all right, before we wrap up a few more things I want to hit
33:03on that are not just random combinations of to pass strange to Drake May.
33:08Let's go.
33:09Hey, Cole, strange.
33:10He had that lateral against Miami or he's got some maybe throwing talent.
33:15But I want to tell you guys very quickly about game time.
33:19If you want to go see Josh McDaniels calling plays next football season, make sure you
33:23guys are using the game time app.
33:26In the meantime, plenty of Celtics Bruins at the garden.
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33:31If you want to go for a Bruins game, whatever reason, but they're back at the garden on
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33:36The Senators are coming to town.
33:38Cheapest get in right now is sixty three dollars on the game time app, and they also have a
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33:52You don't have to waste time searching through thousands of tickets.
33:55Game time picks on that Senators at Bruins game on Thursday.
33:59Move down about five rows up on the home's home side there, one hundred twenty nine dollars.
34:06Good good spot to watch a game there.
34:09So make sure you guys have the game time for their lowest price guaranteed and other in
34:12app features such as seat views, all in pricing and game time picks, which again makes it
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34:21as concerts, comedy, theater, anything else.
34:24Take the guesswork out of buying all those tickets with game time, download the game
34:27time app, create an account and use code CLNS for twenty dollars off your first purchase.
34:32Terms apply again, create an account and redeem code CLNS for twenty dollars off.
34:38Download game time today.
34:40What time is it?
34:41Game time.
34:42All right.
34:43I just wanted to wrap up.
34:44We talked a little bit about the wide receiver coach.
34:47That's a big hire.
34:48Obviously, Chad O'Shea, Wes Welker, some names to look out for maybe there.
34:52Any other names, just the rest of this filling out the rest of this offensive staff you are
34:57looking for?
34:58We heard Thomas Brown could be a candidate to join.
35:01You know, he interviewed for the OC job, but obviously didn't get it going to Josh, but
35:06he could join.
35:07He's had experience with running backs, tight ends.
35:10He was assistant head coach to Sean McVeigh when he was Los Angeles, so Thomas Brown could
35:13join at some point, but anyone else probably just going back down the list of former Patriots
35:19coaches at this.
35:20Yeah.
35:21I'm looking for Ram staff.
35:22Jerry Szaplinski.
35:23Ryan Wendell is an offensive line coach there.
35:27Carmen Bursillo is with the Giants Giants, but maybe he gets hired away, whereas I mean,
35:34we just will go through the old Rolodex.
35:36Where's Cole Popovich these days?
35:38Cole Popovich is, I think he's the assistant offensive line coach with the Texans.
35:42So that's somebody you can maybe realistically hire away that Texas offensive line has been
35:46good.
35:47Yeah.
35:48Yeah.
35:49Is that sarcasm?
35:50Well, they've done a good job.
35:52They got banged up this year, but like they've done a good job.
35:55They have talent.
35:56They just, it wasn't pretty this year with injuries did help or cause, but I was, I was
36:01more thinking of last year.
36:02You're you're yeah.
36:03It was a fair call out.
36:04Um, but yeah, all the, all the familiar, the ones running backs coach, right.
36:08Cause it was Vinny Sonseri who really wasn't a running backs coach and before him, it was
36:12fears.
36:13I don't think he's coming out of retirement.
36:14So maybe that's Thomas Brown.
36:17If he doesn't get Thomas Brown, Luke Steckle is a name I love if free, but wants to gets
36:21one of his guy wants to get one of his guys on the staff.
36:24You know, I got to throw out Holman Wiggins, um, as a potential wide receivers coach.
36:28That's my guy.
36:29Um, somebody asked James White, if he'd come back as wide receivers coach, he just responded
36:35with emoji.
36:36So who knows what Garrett Blunt did the coaching fellowship a couple of years ago.
36:39That's a spot where I'd like to see a former player running backs coach.
36:42I'll give you a way again to go to the Vrabel thing.
36:46I don't know that he would leave for this.
36:49Eddie George has become a really good college coach at the FCS level.
36:53He's at Tennessee tech.
36:54Um, he interviewed for the bear's job, he interviewed for the bear's job.
36:58So that's a head coaching job.
37:00Obviously that's a little different.
37:02Is he going to leave an FCS head coaching job for an NFL positional job?
37:07I don't know him and Vrabel are close.
37:09They played together at Ohio state.
37:11Uh, Eddie George was involved when Vrabel was head coach in Tennessee.
37:15Eddie George played there for a long time.
37:17There is a relationship with, uh, there and I, everything I hear about Eddie George is
37:21overwhelmingly positive as a coach.
37:23It's just a matter of, I, I don't know that that's a step up because he is a head coach
37:32right now.
37:33And if he's trying to be a college head coach or even a college coordinator, the path, it's
37:40probably quicker path to stay at Tennessee tech for another year or two and have success
37:44versus coming to new England.
37:45Yup.
37:46Uh, do you think Josh made a good enough connection with his time at Ohio state, the spring practice
37:52that they can, uh, pay Brian Hartline good money there?
37:54I mean, you're going to have to pay him good money, just national championship.
37:58Maybe he's looking to do something else now with it, with his time, but we can only hope.
38:02Um, the other one, I don't think you mentioned them apologies if you did, but, uh, Mick Lombardi
38:09just here, here for a while.
38:11We followed Josh to be his offensive coordinator, uh, with the Vegas at Vegas.
38:15And now he spent the last year on the 49ers staff as a senior offensive assistant.
38:20So that's someone you can get out of a senior offensive assistant.
38:23Yeah.
38:24They had, they, they'd struggled with him coaching wide receivers.
38:26I want to chat O'Shea might make more sense.
38:30And that's a double connection because obviously he was on McDaniel staff also worked with
38:34variable last year in Cleveland.
38:35Um, you'd probably, you'd have to give him a pass game coordinator, something like that.
38:39And that would be a lateral move, but a chance to continue working with McDaniel's and variable
38:44and come back to new England.
38:45Maybe that's something you can sell them on.
38:47Yep.
38:48I would like Kevin Stefanski might have one year left and it might be like, Hey, I'm,
38:51I'm getting out early.
38:53He could be looking at that and being like, this is not, it's not going to go down well,
38:59but, um, Mick Lombardi would be fun just to watch Michael Lombardi have to walk everything
39:05back.
39:07Or that's why Mick Lombardi won't take the job.
39:10That is, that is also very, but except it's also now it's a, it's variable, right?
39:13And Bella, Bella check gave variable his blessing.
39:16So, yeah.
39:18So maybe that, maybe that's a, something that would be open, but, um, yeah, we'll, we'll
39:22see.
39:23They'll start filling out this offensive staff.
39:25You'd imagine, you know, Josh hasn't been coaching the last year, so he probably has
39:29a good idea of guys who he wants to, uh, bring with them.
39:32And this could, this could start moving, uh, pretty quickly.
39:34The last thing, uh, I'll say not Josh McDaniel's related, but if we want to go on the defense
39:40side of the ball, uh, again, we haven't talked much about these, uh, defensive options, but
39:45it does seem like there is one candidate kind of, uh, separating himself.
39:49They did it in a, in classic Pat's beat fashion.
39:52We logged off last night and about four minutes later, they interviewed, uh, Ryan Crow.
39:58Was that his name?
39:59Ryan?
40:00Yeah.
40:02Linebacker coach has a lot of experience with Tennessee with Mike Frabel, but, uh, there
40:07was a report today that the Patriots are targeting lions, defensive line coach, Terrell Williams,
40:11who we also talked about last night, uh, worked with rabble, defensive line in Tennessee.
40:15He got the assistant head coach title is last year there.
40:19And then when Brable got fired, he went to Detroit this last year as their defensive
40:23line coach.
40:24I think he had like a run game coordinator tag on him too.
40:27So looks like Terrell Williams is where this defensive coordinator, uh, search is trending.
40:32Maybe Ryan Crow then joins his staff, but just any kind of initial thoughts again, not
40:37confirmed yet, but any initial thoughts on, uh, it looks like this might be Terrell Williams
40:41job to lose.
40:42Uh, I, I, I like that just because I I've said this, I want it to be Mike Frabel's defense.
40:47I want him to take ownership of that.
40:49Um, so somebody who is familiar with him, who knows how we want things run, who knows
40:53his system and all of that kind of points towards, yeah, this is going to be Mike Frabel
40:58is going to be hands-on with this defense.
41:00Yep.
41:01Seems like, uh, I think I said this last night again, but I don't love maybe going back to
41:06a defensive line coach as a, your next defensive coordinator, but a lot more experience than
41:11DeMarcus Covington.
41:13Don't let that experiment maybe scare you away.
41:15This is someone who's been deep coaching the defense side of the football, I think over
41:2025 years.
41:21He's always been coaching for a long time.
41:24Obviously, Mike Frabel is a fan with the assistant head coach title, but yeah.
41:29And you know, the thing with Covington, not to necessarily excuse it, it was a bad defense,
41:34but the plan should have been, he was going to learn, like he got promoted early, but
41:39he was going to learn first year in the job that you had a guy that had been there and
41:42done that in Gerard Mayo, who you in theory promoted because of his work organizing a
41:47defense that could kind of help him out.
41:49And that never happened.
41:51Mayo never took any ownership of the defense.
41:52So if Rabel is going to take ownership, like if it does go bad, Mike Frabel is going to
41:58grab the play sheet and say, it's my turn.
42:01Right.
42:02So that, that, that's why I'm not as worried about it.
42:04Yep.
42:05So that's where the coordinators looks like it's trending.
42:08Josh McDaniels Springer either.
42:10Right.
42:11Or were we on for that?
42:12Oh no, that was before we recorded.
42:14Yeah.
42:15Yeah.
42:16We were on.
42:17So Springer stays and looks like Terrell Williams wouldn't be surprised if they announce all
42:21three of them.
42:22I don't know if they would announce Springer again, but announce the additions all together
42:26at some point later.
42:27They'll probably do that again with our, well, I, I wonder if it'll be once the positional
42:33coaches are hired, Hey, here's our, here's 2025 coaching staff.
42:37Last year, I remember they did the coordinators.
42:41They did like a graphic for just the coordinators a week or two after they did the whole staff,
42:47I think.
42:48But we'll see.
42:49That's where it looks like it is trending with those three.
42:51But any last thoughts before we, before we get out of here?
42:54No, I think that's it.
42:57All right.
42:58So we will cut this one here.
43:01Thanks everyone for jumping in with us late tonight for a breaking news edition.
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43:10So you do know when we go live next, I believe we'll be back next week at this point, unless
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43:22In the meantime, you can follow Barth on Twitter at Real Alex Barth, head to 985dsportshub.com
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43:36Thanks again for everyone for jumping in with us tonight, and we will see you guys next
43:40week.
43:41Bye.
43:46Transcribed by https://otter.ai