• 9 hours ago
CLNS Media's Taylor Kyles and SI's Mike Kadlick return with a new episode of Patriots Daily, recapping Super Bowl LIX and diving into "Patriots Reset." The duo shares their thoughts on the coaching staff, breaks down key offseason storylines, and answers fan questions in a mailbag segment.

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Transcript
00:00:00I am joined by Robert Griffin III, James Whitefield, yes, Mina Kimes, all right, so first play
00:00:17we're going to look at, second and two, one of the Patriots' first offensive plays.
00:00:22Hmm.
00:00:23Who are you?
00:00:26What is this?
00:00:27I don't know.
00:00:28I just showed up here.
00:00:29What is this podcast?
00:00:30What's going on, everybody?
00:00:32Welcome back to the Patriots Daily Podcast here on the CLNS Media Network, powered as
00:00:37always by our friends at PrizeFix, and it has been a while, and that's why we joked
00:00:42like that off the top.
00:00:43But it has been, man, I want to say like almost two weeks since we've done like a traditional
00:00:49Patriots Daily episode here, which is why we're calling it the Patriots Reset.
00:00:53We're taking a look at everything that's happened over the last couple of weeks.
00:00:56Taylor's been all over the map.
00:00:57He's been in New Orleans.
00:00:59He's been in Mobile.
00:01:00I've been...
00:01:01Oh, I actually went on vacation.
00:01:02I've been in Florida, but it wasn't for work.
00:01:03I was just getting my tan on and having some fun over the last couple of weekends.
00:01:07So we've kind of missed each other.
00:01:08We've been two ships in the night, but now we're back to bring it all to you.
00:01:12We'll talk about some Super Bowl stuff.
00:01:15We'll have a mailbag at the end.
00:01:16We're kind of going to wrap it all up into one hour-long reset of everything that has
00:01:20happened, like I said, over the last two weeks.
00:01:24It's going to be mainly focused on coaching staff because those hires have been made.
00:01:28I want to say it happened late last week.
00:01:31We obviously haven't reacted to it, so we're going to use today to react to a lot of that.
00:01:35But first and foremost, Taylor, I mentioned you've been all over the map.
00:01:39You were down in Mobile for the Senior Bowl for a week.
00:01:41You were down at Super Bowl Media Week in New Orleans.
00:01:44Those looked like a ton of fun, not just the parties and the things of that nature, but
00:01:49also the interviews.
00:01:50You talked to Jameis Winston.
00:01:51You talked to Trey Smith or Joe Tooney.
00:01:55You talked to a bunch of guys down there and got a ton of intel.
00:01:59So before we get into Patriots, what were the last two weeks like?
00:02:02What did you see?
00:02:03Give me some of your top moments of everything that's gone on around the NFL since we've
00:02:07last spoken.
00:02:08Yeah, it's kind of been a blur the last couple weeks, a fun blur.
00:02:11Got to see a lot of people, like friends from Twitter and everything, like all the football
00:02:15community got to meet.
00:02:16I actually met Mina Kimes in person for the first time.
00:02:19That was really cool.
00:02:20But yeah, I got to talk to some players, got to see some of the guys who are going to be
00:02:24in this year's draft.
00:02:25Starting at Mobile, I feel a lot better about the Patriots being able to help themselves
00:02:29out in the trenches.
00:02:30A wide receiver was definitely a position I went in wondering, are we going to find
00:02:34some guys that could be there around?
00:02:37Usually day three is really what I'm thinking, because as we know, once you get to the fourth
00:02:40round, it gets a little sketchier.
00:02:41So if the Patriots want some receiving help, probably going to have to come with one of
00:02:45their third round picks, second round picks or what have you.
00:02:48But I like the receiving talent, but in the trenches, it really stood out because I feel
00:02:51like there's some offensive tackles, especially in the second, third round range that the
00:02:55Patriots will be able to get, potentially turn into some starters down the road, probably
00:02:59not in year one.
00:03:00Defensive linemen, I think this team is desperate for situational pass rushers who can maybe
00:03:04develop into more.
00:03:05I think there's a ton of guys that fit that kind of area where talk about Donovan as a
00:03:09rock who like Josiah Stewart, David Walker, some undersized guys that play a lot bigger
00:03:15than what their size suggests that really stood out to me.
00:03:17And even guys like Mike Green, for example, someone who came in with some questions and
00:03:22answered those on top of having a great week, Darius Alexander, an interior defensive lineman
00:03:27who just was one of the biggest winners, I think, comes from Toledo, had an interesting
00:03:31profile but really stood out as a pass rusher against some top level or top-ish level competition
00:03:36relative to the senior bowl participants.
00:03:38So those were a lot of my standouts, the trenches, I think the Patriots can get better, tight
00:03:42end, stacked tight end class, couldn't see a lot of the running backs because the senior
00:03:46bowl is not really made for those kinds of guys.
00:03:48But when you look at the receiving drills, a lot of talented pass catching types.
00:03:52So I think when it comes to bolstering depth at some of the skill positions and most importantly
00:03:57in the trenches, I came away pretty optimistic.
00:03:59And then Super Bowl week, got to talk to a lot of players who played for the Patriots
00:04:03like Brandon Bolden, he mentioned that he's a big fan of the Patriots, even said afterwards
00:04:08that he would be open to it if Josh McDaniels gave him a call and wanted him to come back
00:04:12after being out of the league for a year.
00:04:14But he said he's a Drake May fan.
00:04:16He's a Mondra fan, still wants Monterey to be a little better with the fall security.
00:04:20I spoke to Jameis Winston, also asked him about Mike Vrabel, everything you already
00:04:26know about Mike Vrabel, he's going to bring discipline and the credibility and all that.
00:04:29But also Ashton Grant, we're going to get more into the coaches later in the show, but
00:04:33I thought it was really interesting, Jameis kind of pointing out how he's a potential
00:04:36head coach down the road and really liked how he went about his process and his mental
00:04:40approach to the game.
00:04:41So got a little more insight into the Patriots staff, how people feel about them, make sure
00:04:45to go to Patriots Press Pass and check out all those interviews I did for sure.
00:04:49Josh Sweat, the guy who maybe should have been Super Bowl MVP, asked him about being
00:04:53a free agent.
00:04:54He was awesome, by the way, really wasn't supposed to talk to me.
00:04:57I was waiting for like 10 minutes to talk to him, had to like fight through traffic
00:05:01and all these people were trying to get in over me.
00:05:03But he wound up doing a radio interview and actually came over when they were trying to
00:05:08take him away and was like, hey, let me give these guys a couple minutes.
00:05:10So that was really cool.
00:05:11And he mentioned that he's not just a pass rusher.
00:05:13He's also a run stopper in that any team that gets him is getting a well-rounded player.
00:05:17We saw that last night.
00:05:18So really cool.
00:05:19We got to see the prospects, got to talk to some players and guys around the league about
00:05:23what they think of the new look Patriots, all that content's available.
00:05:26So make sure you check it out.
00:05:27But yeah, it was a lot of fun.
00:05:28Can't wait to I could definitely wait.
00:05:31I could use this next like a week, two weeks at home.
00:05:34It's kind of right.
00:05:35Might be going to the owners meetings at the end of the month, going to the combine.
00:05:38So, you know, just a very quick break.
00:05:40But good times on the road.
00:05:41A lot of travel miles for Taylor Kyle's is going to have some sort of some sort of benefits
00:05:47or more.
00:05:48So how does that?
00:05:49You mentioned like the Josh Sweat interview.
00:05:50I know you interviewed Jameis like basically in the middle of the, you know, the media
00:05:54thing.
00:05:55Like, is any of that organized or is it just organized chaos?
00:05:57Like, did you just go up to Jameis like, oh, hey, can I grab you for a few minutes?
00:06:01Like, is it just kind of like that with everybody?
00:06:03So it's there are certain players and coaches like the head coaches and a few of the star
00:06:07players get the boots and those are kind of lined around the stadium.
00:06:12That's what you walk around.
00:06:13But other than that, it's a free for all like linemen and players who aren't really stars
00:06:17necessarily.
00:06:18They're just walking around.
00:06:19If I were them, honestly, I would just go to the bathroom and hide out.
00:06:21So I didn't have to answer anybody's.
00:06:22I was thinking that I was like, why are they even staying here and answering all this stuff?
00:06:26I would make sure that I was out of sight, out of mind.
00:06:29But yeah.
00:06:30So guys are walking around.
00:06:31Jameis was working for Fox.
00:06:32So he was kind of doing his own thing, talking to people that they wanted.
00:06:36But yeah, other than the guys in the booths, it's pretty much just a free for all.
00:06:39If you see somebody, you go up and try your best to talk to him.
00:06:41I tried to get Jakob Johnson because I kept seeing him around, but he was popular.
00:06:45He was always surrounded by people.
00:06:47I did get to talk to him for like two seconds and told him that Patriots fans really want
00:06:50him back.
00:06:51So I don't think he would say no if he got a call.
00:06:54I think that'd probably be more up to Josh.
00:06:56They wanted him back.
00:06:57But yeah, free for all for the most part.
00:07:00Interesting.
00:07:01Well, good stuff.
00:07:02It was good content.
00:07:03Like Taylor said, check it all out.
00:07:04It's all on the channel.
00:07:05And that's why we haven't been here in traditional Patriots daily settings.
00:07:08It was Senior Bowl, it was Super Bowl, and all of that stuff is up there.
00:07:14Let's get into this coaching staff now.
00:07:17The Patriots have named their 2025 coaching staff, notably returning Jeremy Springer,
00:07:26Assistant Special Teams Coach Tom Quinn, Assistant Offensive Line Coach Robert Kugler, Strength
00:07:31and Conditioning Coach Derron Mayo.
00:07:34That was a shock, isn't strong, but I was surprised that he's returning.
00:07:42Assistant Special Team, or excuse me, Assistant Strength and Conditioning Coach Brian McDonough,
00:07:47and Defensive Assistant for BC Eagle Vinny DePalma.
00:07:50Obviously, the front office as well includes Ryan Cowden, who was named the Vice President
00:07:56of Player Personnel.
00:07:57John Stryker is the Vice President of Football Operations and Strategy, and Frank Perrano
00:08:03is the Director of Strength and Conditioning.
00:08:06Sports performance.
00:08:07Sports performance.
00:08:08Sports performance.
00:08:09Okay.
00:08:10So he'll oversee the Derron Mayos of the world, Brian McDonough, and basically everybody else.
00:08:14So that's what we're looking at front office wise, as well as people coming back.
00:08:19Also departing, we now know Mike Pellegrino.
00:08:22I don't think we talked about this since we've last been on here, but Mike Pellegrino is
00:08:26gone.
00:08:27Brian Belichick is gone.
00:08:28Both of those guys were in limbo.
00:08:32They were kind of the last to leave, it felt like.
00:08:35But ultimately, they hire the staff.
00:08:37Those guys don't come back.
00:08:38Pellegrino lands in Buffalo, and Brian Belichick lands in Chapel Hill with Bill Belichick.
00:08:43So thoughts on those guys leaving, but also just any thoughts on the guys coming back
00:08:47and kind of where we're at before we get into how we're going to break this up, which is
00:08:51optimistic, slightly optimistic, and sort of pessimistic on some of these guys on the
00:08:56coaching staff.
00:08:57Yeah.
00:08:58So basically, this exercise is, and we're going to be trying to do this offseason, is
00:09:01structure it in a way that we can pretty much hold ourselves accountable.
00:09:04So if we go back after a year and somebody doesn't work out, we can go back and say,
00:09:08okay, this is how we felt about them at the time.
00:09:10This was why.
00:09:11And then as we gather new information, we'll go about it from there.
00:09:14Not really touching on assistant coaching hires, because typically those guys don't
00:09:17have a ton of experience.
00:09:19It's really worth commenting on because they're assistants, they're not leading their own
00:09:22rooms.
00:09:23So I kind of wanted to stay away from that because there's only so much, like, I think
00:09:26the saying is that the head coach coaches the coordinators, the coordinators coach
00:09:30the coaches, and then the position coaches pretty much coach the assistant coaches.
00:09:33So stay away from them.
00:09:34But yeah, quickly going over the front office one, I like the fact that Vrabel was able
00:09:38to retain his guys, right?
00:09:40You got John Stryker as someone who, when we think about that moment against the Patriots
00:09:44in the playoffs, where Vrabel kind of trolled Belichick with the rules, a lot of people
00:09:48attribute Stryker as being the guy who was kind of behind that.
00:09:51He's been Vrabel's really analytics, kind of a strategy guy, as the title would suggest.
00:09:56So I think that's a pretty smart move.
00:09:58I know that he worked with the Rams and helped Sean McVay out with his kind of game management,
00:10:02and he really credited Stryker with that.
00:10:04So I love that move.
00:10:06Ryan Cowden, people who are critical of Mike Vrabel and his personnel management when he
00:10:10was with the Titans, once he got a little bit more power, even then, even those people
00:10:14do typically like Ryan Cowden.
00:10:17Not sure how much involvement he had, of course, like the Giants had a great draft class last
00:10:21season in his second year with the team.
00:10:23I believe it's thought that he had more power in that season.
00:10:27So hopefully that tied into it.
00:10:28But the Titans did pick some pretty good players when he was in that front office.
00:10:31So hopefully he can bring some of that magic to New England.
00:10:34And then Frank Perano, I'm not sure how to pronounce that exactly, but he held the same
00:10:41title with the Titans.
00:10:42So again, a guy that Vrabel knows and trusts, that's very important with this regime.
00:10:46In terms of the retentions, Springer and Tom Quinn, those were some that we kind of expected
00:10:50going in.
00:10:51Tom Quinn was an assistant with the Titans.
00:10:53I believe he was elevated because of someone's departure or something like that.
00:10:57And he was an interim coordinator or something like that, but has experience on Mike Vrabel's
00:11:00coaching staff.
00:11:01Jeremy Springer did a great job last season.
00:11:03I thought it made all the sense in the world to retain him.
00:11:05We already talked about that.
00:11:06Robert Kugler was definitely interesting considering that Scott Peters and Michael McCarthy wound
00:11:11up leaving.
00:11:12They're with the Bengals now.
00:11:13But Robert Kugler was someone who, when he was hired with the Patriots, I remember he
00:11:17was pretty highly regarded.
00:11:18People thought that he could be someone who leads his own room or maybe coaches his own
00:11:21team.
00:11:22I believe so, yeah.
00:11:25So obviously someone that Mike Vrabel thought was going to be a quality retention on that
00:11:29staff along with Doug Marone.
00:11:31And then John Hotaling, I still don't know how exactly to pronounce his name.
00:11:35I wish they had a pronunciation guide for these, but for now we deal with what we've
00:11:39got.
00:11:40And then Deron Mayo might make Thanksgiving's a little awkward.
00:11:44But Deron's been on the Patriots staff for a while.
00:11:46I think the fact that he has an understanding of who these players are, he knows their histories.
00:11:50I'm sure that played some part into it.
00:11:52And also I've never heard anything bad about him.
00:11:55Never heard any criticism about how he does his job necessarily.
00:11:58So makes sense.
00:12:00You know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
00:12:01You don't really want to bring in a guy if there's someone who has experience with players.
00:12:05Although kind of think about like Mike Pellegrino when it goes against that a little bit.
00:12:08But we don't know what their internal thinking was.
00:12:10So Deron Mayo, Brian McDonough, they come back and then Vinny De Palma, another assistant
00:12:14who clearly did a good enough job that this regime decided he was good enough to keep.
00:12:18So I do like the fact that I think this shows some behind the scenes mentality where Vrabel
00:12:24said he did want a diversity of mentalities on the coaching staff.
00:12:27And I think you see that because Patriots obviously retained a lot of the defensive
00:12:31guys, but a lot of those are pretty obvious retentions in a lot of ways.
00:12:34And some of these were unexpected.
00:12:36So at the very least, they're interesting.
00:12:38We'll see, you know, down the line of guys like De Palma and Kugler, maybe rise up the
00:12:42ranks down the road.
00:12:43So going to be interesting to see what happens there.
00:12:45But I like the fact that they did keep some guys who actually did a good job last season.
00:12:49Although I definitely wish they had retained maybe one or two more guys.
00:12:52Yeah, the Tom Quinn and Jeremy Springer retentions made a ton of sense, especially with his history
00:13:00with Vrabel in Tennessee.
00:13:03I don't want to keep harping on it, but I just you mentioned the Thanksgiving's and
00:13:06Deron Mayo returning.
00:13:08Like I'm not buying into the Twitter rumors that have gone on about where Mayo's at with
00:13:13this team and someone's floating like lawsuit nonsense.
00:13:16I don't know.
00:13:18And I don't think that's true.
00:13:20His wife still did post that cryptic Instagram story where she was like, you know, our story
00:13:26is more to the story, whatever.
00:13:28And clearly there was the way it happened with Gerard was terrible and it should have
00:13:36happened. And he kind of got the rug pulled from him for better or for worse.
00:13:39That's what happened. I wonder like how that goes over with your brother staying on the
00:13:44staff. Now it's work, right?
00:13:46It's your job. You need to find work.
00:13:48He might not have had a job.
00:13:49And if he had a job here, it's like, look, I need to work and provide for my family.
00:13:54And that's kind of how I look at Brian Belichick staying here last year, threw it off
00:13:58where that was kind of weird and awkward to me where they got rid of Bill earlier than
00:14:04he wanted to. And there was bad blood between the organization and Bill.
00:14:06But Brian still stayed because he had work and wanted to work there and he had worked
00:14:12with Gerard. And even though there's seemingly something between Mayo and Bill, he
00:14:16stayed and now he's back with his dad.
00:14:18So like work is work, family's family.
00:14:20I know sometimes it's hard, but I think ultimately it's a job for Deron Mayo.
00:14:25And he's like you said, he's done good work here as far as we know.
00:14:28So as far as I'm concerned, it's a good retention to have him back.
00:14:32Let's get into the optimistic side of this coaching staff.
00:14:36We've broken this up, like we said, optimistic, cautiously optimistic, as well as
00:14:41skeptical. A majority of these on here, as we do on the show.
00:14:48We're optimistic about this coaching staff, and it's a lot different than last year's
00:14:52where there was a lot of guys who didn't have a ton of experience.
00:14:54There's a lot of experience on this coaching staff.
00:14:57I think it starts with none other than the first guy we're going to talk about, which
00:15:01is Thomas Brown. He's their tight ends coach.
00:15:03He's their past game coordinator.
00:15:05Last year, he wore three hats in Chicago.
00:15:07He was their interim head coach.
00:15:09He was also their interim OC at one point, and he started as the past game coordinator.
00:15:14I believe he's had a ton of experience.
00:15:17How do we want to do this?
00:15:18Do we want to turn this into like a just go back and forth, or do you want to go each
00:15:22guy kind of talk about each one?
00:15:24I can talk about each one, and then if you want to chip in anything after.
00:15:27Let's talk about Thomas Brown, then.
00:15:28Why are you optimistic about Thomas Brown on this staff?
00:15:32Yeah, well, one, I think he's one of the more qualified guys on the staff and also one of
00:15:37the most exciting when you talk about what his trajectory is in the NFL.
00:15:40So one, he was a former NFL running back.
00:15:42That's a bit of a theme on this staff, as you have guys who've actually played a lot
00:15:45of the positions they're actually coaching.
00:15:47Now, Thomas Brown was NFL running back, but still experienced in the league, and then
00:15:51we'll actually see through his career why he's so much more qualified to now be a passing
00:15:55game coordinator and a tight ends coach, although that's not his playing background.
00:15:59So he rose up the ranks as the Rams running backs coach, actually became the assistant
00:16:03head coach under Sean McVay and McVay challenged him to become the tight ends coach.
00:16:08So we have a better understanding of both the running game and the passing game tells
00:16:11you a lot about Sean McVay and how he viewed Thomas Brown as an up and coming mind in the
00:16:16NFL. And then Nick Kaley wound up taking over as tight ends coach once Thomas Brown
00:16:21left. Now, Nick Kaley's the offensive coordinator for the Texans, I believe.
00:16:25Right. So the Texans job.
00:16:26Yeah. So obviously a pretty good pipeline.
00:16:28The Sean McVay tight ends coach, also tight ends coach was what Sean McVay was with
00:16:32Washington when he was rising up the ranks as well.
00:16:35So just a position you typically get on the way to becoming an offensive coordinator if
00:16:39you don't work with, say, quarterbacks.
00:16:41He was also named one of the NFL's top offensive coordinators and an NFL P.A.
00:16:45players poll before he became the offensive coordinator for the Carolina or I think when
00:16:50he became the right before he became the I'm sorry, offensive coordinator for the
00:16:53Carolina Panthers and he was the head coaching candidate in twenty twenty four.
00:16:57So this is a guy with a pretty good reputation around the league.
00:16:59Now, obviously, past couple of stops haven't worked out Panthers and the Bears.
00:17:03I think a lot of that could be attributed, though, to things around him in the
00:17:06circumstances, much more than they can actually be attributed to him.
00:17:10Clearly, he's still very well respected in the league.
00:17:12And like you said, he wore three different hats with the Bears, maybe not necessarily
00:17:15fair. That's some pretty valuable experience for him to take moving forward.
00:17:19Also, a very small thing.
00:17:21He actually coached Nick Chubb in twenty fifteen.
00:17:23So that's the third connection we've got with Nick Chubb, because Mike Vrabel worked
00:17:26with the Browns staff last year.
00:17:28Ashton Grant was with the Browns offense for multiple years.
00:17:31I don't think Nick Chubb is going to join a running back room where you've already got
00:17:34remandery Stevenson and Antonio Gibson.
00:17:36I just thought that was kind of interesting that while Brown was with Georgia, where he
00:17:39played in college, he actually also overlapped with Nick Chubb.
00:17:42But again, the background where he's clearly well respected by Sean McVay reputation
00:17:46around the league kind of experience in some different types of roles in the leadership
00:17:50experience he has are all things where for a passing game coordinator, where he's going
00:17:54to be learning under a Josh McDaniels, I really like one what he can bring as someone
00:17:59who has experience in that McVay West Coast type of system, but also what he can kind
00:18:04of learn from McDaniels and how those things maybe combine themselves.
00:18:07So really going to be interested to see how his role pans out on this team.
00:18:11Yeah, I think really outside of the Josh McDaniels hire, this one's probably my
00:18:16favorite because it's someone who like, you know, if they made the decision to hire him
00:18:20as their OC, I wouldn't have even hated that.
00:18:22Like, yeah, I would have him more as cautiously optimistic than the complete
00:18:27optimistic category that we're talking about.
00:18:28But that experience in the league, he clearly has respect around the league because his
00:18:33name has always floated not only in the OC, in the OC around, but like you mentioned,
00:18:38he was a head coach candidate at one point.
00:18:40And again, I don't think the Chicago stop was his fault.
00:18:44And Carolina was the same thing where it was an 11 game skid Frank Reich above him.
00:18:49Like it just it was Bryce Young's first year.
00:18:53He didn't have it like it was just kind of it was just kind of a mess there.
00:18:57And I would not necessarily attribute it to him.
00:18:59And I think, as you mentioned, learning with Josh, growing with Josh, I really like
00:19:03that hire. It's an experienced hire on this staff under an already experienced Josh McDaniel.
00:19:08So put those minds together and kind of start cooking.
00:19:11Now you have Ashton Grant, the quarterback coach under optimistic.
00:19:16I'm going to call it for myself, cautiously optimistic with Grant.
00:19:21And here's why, because he doesn't really I feel like he doesn't have a ton of experience.
00:19:26He was sort of an OA for most of his time and he leaned quarterbacks with Cleveland.
00:19:31But I'm just curious if he's going to be able to come in and just grab the room and
00:19:37garner the quarterback sermon, be that kind of guy.
00:19:40Now he's working under Josh McDaniel.
00:19:42So as all the quarterback coaching experience in the world, his resume, I'll let you talk about.
00:19:47Grant is super what's the word I'm looking for it.
00:19:53This is like riding a bike, but we're kind of trying to get our feet under our feet for going two weeks.
00:19:58But again, he's done a lot.
00:19:59He did a lot with Cleveland.
00:20:00Former player again, which is noteworthy.
00:20:03But talk about Ashton Grant and why you have him as someone you're optimistic.
00:20:07So this is similar to Thomas Brown, where Josh McDaniel's presence.
00:20:10And ironically, he's not in the optimistic list.
00:20:12I know he just barely missed out.
00:20:15But really, Josh McDaniels carries a lot of these guys, because, like I said, the coordinators teach the position coaches.
00:20:20And so many of Josh McDaniels position coaches wound up going elsewhere and having some level of success, even some of his former players.
00:20:27So the fact that this is still Josh McDaniel system and these are basically going to be the vessels to help communicate it maybe on a more specific level to certain players where Josh and Drake are going to work pretty closely.
00:20:38Ashton Grant's going to work at times, obviously, with Drake, similar to T.C.
00:20:42McCartney. But the quarterbacks coach, as long as the offense coordinator is still a quarterback's guy, typically works more with the backups.
00:20:48So what I like about this is, one, he is a former quarterback.
00:20:51So he's got that perspective, kind of similar to T.C.
00:20:54McCartney, who received a ton of praise for his part in helping Drake May.
00:20:57It's kind of that situation where, like Alex Van Pelt, it's going to be the Josh McDaniel show.
00:21:02You're just going to get help from other places.
00:21:04And then Ashton Grant, one, worked with quarterbacks under Kevin Stefanski and overlapped with Alex Van Pelt for one season.
00:21:10But he's been coaching quarterbacks and been an offensive assistant for the Cleveland Browns for a couple of seasons.
00:21:16That excites me because you have that intermediary, right?
00:21:19Where one of the things we were most worried about was Josh McDaniels coming in, having had Drake May been in more of a West Coast type of system with Alex Van Pelt, with T.C.
00:21:28McCartney and all that, and even Ben McAdoo, because that's the system he came up in.
00:21:32Now you have someone who may be able to kind of split the difference and help with the translation there, where Ashton Grant can say, OK, this is how you know what you would call it in this more Stefanski type system.
00:21:42This is what McDaniels is calling it.
00:21:43Now, McDaniels is still left foot up.
00:21:45A lot of that is the same.
00:21:46So that's going to be helpful, but it's still going to be different concepts and different ways of going about things.
00:21:51So I like that Ashton Grant kind of serves as that intermediary between the two.
00:21:55Also, when I spoke to James Winston about Ashton Grant, very interesting quote from him.
00:22:00He said Ashton will be an NFL coach, one NFL head coach one day.
00:22:04Just his attention to detail, his ability to see and visualize something on the sideline and make an in-game suggestion.
00:22:10I think he has a wonderful mind.
00:22:12I know he has a great work ethic, and I know that anybody in that quarterback room is going to benefit from his intelligence and his work ethic.
00:22:18That's coming from a veteran quarterback who's been in a couple of spots.
00:22:21So, of course, I think these players, especially if they like a coach that they've had, they're going to speak highly.
00:22:26Very rarely you're going to hear a player, especially publicly, poo-poo a coach that they've had in the past.
00:22:31But those are some pretty that was a pretty good lesson, unless it's J.S.
00:22:34And about Shane Walters.
00:22:35Exactly. Like that was one of the rare moments where when it happens, your ears break up.
00:22:39You're like, what the hell was that?
00:22:41But the fact that Winston, especially mentioning the in-game suggestions,
00:22:44I think that's going to be huge because Josh can't do every everything.
00:22:47So maybe having one more voice, as long as they're all on the same page
00:22:51to give Drake May's perspective, I think that could be really cool.
00:22:53So that's why I'm optimistic, because with both Thomas Brown and Ashton Grant,
00:22:57it's not their show, right?
00:22:59They're coordinating and helping Josh with his vision.
00:23:01And as two guys with experience under, again, Thomas Brown under McVay, Ashton Grant under Kevin Sapansky.
00:23:07These are two guys where their resumes really speak for themselves.
00:23:10These are guys who are head coach of the year candidates.
00:23:13It feels like almost every single season.
00:23:14So I like their background and I like that they're going to get to learn
00:23:17under someone like Josh McDaniels and kind of keep that
00:23:20that solid track record flowing for both of them.
00:23:22Yeah, no, I like it.
00:23:24Again, I'm cautiously optimistic about the
00:23:28the fact that he goes right to QB's coach.
00:23:30Again, you have to work your way up somehow.
00:23:31But I do also like that Vrabel brings him over from Cleveland
00:23:35and someone who he clearly worked with, respects and trusts from that system.
00:23:40And then the Winston quote is awesome.
00:23:42Like for him to for him to come out and say this guy who was,
00:23:45you know, an assistant for us in an O.A.
00:23:47is going to be a head coach one day that that gives off pretty good vibes to me.
00:23:52Like that. That's good stuff from Jameis.
00:23:53So I almost forgot to ask about him.
00:23:55I was like, I feel like there's one more guy on Cleveland staff that's here.
00:23:58Like, oh, my God, it's Ashton.
00:24:00So that was that was like a last second to add to that list of questions.
00:24:03I was really happy.
00:24:04So, all right.
00:24:05Last offensive coach you're optimistic about before we go to break
00:24:09is running backs coach Kony Dews.
00:24:12Why are you optimistic about the guy who hopefully will help
00:24:15Ramond R. Stevenson for fumbling as much as he did last season?
00:24:18Yeah, this one's pretty straightforward.
00:24:19One, he was Vrabel's running backs coach for five seasons
00:24:22when he was with the Titans last season.
00:24:24He actually coached tight ends, which similar to what happened
00:24:27with Thomas Brown kind of tells me that maybe Vrabel wanted him
00:24:30to have a more well-rounded understanding of the offense.
00:24:33Again, that's what I'm assuming, because if he had the position for so long,
00:24:36coach Derrick Henry, I mean, I doubt he was doing anything wrong.
00:24:39I do know there was some skepticism over Deion Lewis.
00:24:42I know he was used a ton early on in Vrabel's tenure
00:24:45and people were confused about that.
00:24:46I don't know how much Dews had to do with that.
00:24:47So maybe we'll put that in the air.
00:24:49Could maybe teeter him on the cautiously optimistic side.
00:24:52But the fact that he has so many years of experience
00:24:54specifically with Vrabel worked with Derrick Henry, which,
00:24:58you know, when Derrick Henry makes a pro bowl, you're not saying, oh, wow.
00:25:01Great job, coach. Like, oh, here we go out on his own.
00:25:04But one thing I will say that Matt LaFleur mentioned is why I really put him
00:25:08in this more optimistic category.
00:25:10Matt LaFleur said that Tony Dews has got such an infectious personality
00:25:14and brings a lot of life not only to your staff, but to your team.
00:25:17I thought he created an amazing culture in that running back room
00:25:20in our time together at Tennessee.
00:25:22So it kind of reminds me more of an Ivan Fierce type
00:25:24where you do build those relationship.
00:25:26You try to raise these guys up because with running back,
00:25:29it's more like you're giving information.
00:25:30But I feel like it's not as much of a hands on type of job
00:25:34as some other roles, necessarily.
00:25:35So I feel like it's mostly just be somebody that the players like
00:25:39where you can really help them mature as players and as men
00:25:42give them the tips they need to be at their best.
00:25:44Like, that's what it's more about, at least as far as I know.
00:25:46So, again, Tony Dew is not a whole lot to say,
00:25:49but there's not a lot of bad to say either.
00:25:51So that's really why for me, I've got him on the optimistic.
00:25:53Now he's got like you said, he's got the experience.
00:25:55He obviously worked with Henry in Tennessee and on running backs, coach.
00:25:58We talked about it last year a lot when we were evaluating their current staff,
00:26:01where we look at Taylor Embry.
00:26:02It's like, what could he be?
00:26:04A former Jets coach, which is pretty funny.
00:26:06Second year, they're taking a Jets running backs coach.
00:26:08Right. But it's kind of like, you know, what could he be doing right
00:26:11versus wrong as a running backs coach?
00:26:13It's basically, you know, helping those guys along,
00:26:15but also right place, right time, understanding,
00:26:18you know, what what you have to do, being in the right spot,
00:26:21being the outlet for the quarterback, what you have to do
00:26:23in the protection schemes and stuff.
00:26:25So, again, Dews has done it for a long time.
00:26:27So I'm with you.
00:26:27I think that that is a good hire for this Patriots team.
00:26:31All right. We're going to get to the rest of the staff.
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00:28:16All right. Back to this Patriots coaching staff, Taylor.
00:28:20Moving on to the defensive side of the football, who we are optimistic about.
00:28:25And the first one is outside linebackers coach Mike Smith.
00:28:28What do you like about him?
00:28:29Another former player in Mike Smith.
00:28:31Why are you optimistic about him?
00:28:33Yeah, Mike Smith's got a pretty good track record.
00:28:36So he coached deep forward to his first Pro Bowl in 2018.
00:28:39That was the year before he wound up getting signed by the 49ers.
00:28:41So maximize the contract here.
00:28:43Coach Z'Darrius Smith to Pro Bowls in 2019, 2020 and 2021
00:28:48actually ended up helping recruit Z'Darrius Smith to Minnesota in 2022,
00:28:52where Smith also coached Daniel Hunter to a Pro Bowl.
00:28:55Now, obviously, these are still very good players,
00:28:57but this is three straight stops since he's been an NFL coach
00:29:00where he coached guys to the Pro Bowl.
00:29:02He did take a leave of absence early on in 2023.
00:29:05Personal reasons.
00:29:06Didn't coach in 2024, which is why initially I was kind of confused.
00:29:09I'm like, all right, why was this guy out of football for a year?
00:29:11No idea why.
00:29:12Not going to speculate because, again, it was personal reasons.
00:29:15But again, that track record is pretty damn impressive.
00:29:18And he's one of two former pass for a specialist
00:29:21that the Patriots currently have that used to be Joe Kim's role.
00:29:23Now they got a couple of guys on top of Terrell Williams
00:29:26being a renowned defensive line coach.
00:29:28So really, the trenches are starting to get exciting.
00:29:31I'm getting to the point where whoever they add, you kind of expect
00:29:34that they're going to be able to get the most out of these guys.
00:29:36Right. Most most exciting for Keon White, because as we know,
00:29:40he's been more of an interior rusher showing flashes on the outside,
00:29:44but very inconsistent as an edge defender.
00:29:46And then, as we know, on the inside, even though he's like a bull
00:29:49in a china shop or like a bird in a cage where, you know, he's
00:29:52he's moving around, he's frenetic and he's disruptive.
00:29:54Those pressures don't always turn into sacks.
00:29:56And that's where you'd like to see him grow in year three,
00:29:59as well as a lot of other places.
00:30:00So Mike Smith and I actually lump the other person into this list as well,
00:30:04because it's pretty similar.
00:30:05It's going to do that. Yeah.
00:30:07Defensive line coach Clinton McMillan joined my variable staff in 2021
00:30:11and worked with Terrell Williams as the assistant
00:30:13defensive line coach and pass our specialist in 2022 and 2023.
00:30:18So that really excites me because, again, it's someone
00:30:21who 12 Williams is familiar with.
00:30:22He's been in this variable system.
00:30:24They had success with Jeffrey Simmons.
00:30:25He went to the Pro Bowl, I believe one or two seasons in 2022.
00:30:29He went to the Pro Bowl under McMillan.
00:30:31So not quite as as experienced or not renowned as successful,
00:30:37I guess you'd say, as a Mike Smith, but still someone in this
00:30:41lexicon of guys who've had success in Tennessee.
00:30:43I don't really have a whole I guess Clinton McMillan,
00:30:45you can say cautiously optimistic because he's never had his own room.
00:30:48But it also just feels like a natural progression because like
00:30:51you can even see videos online of him and Terrell Williams
00:30:53going through their circuits.
00:30:54So it just makes sense that now that Williams is in a bigger role,
00:30:58the Clinton McMillan gets that promotion as someone who's worked with him
00:31:00for so long.
00:31:01So talking, you know, using that as someone who's never
00:31:04kind of had their own room, it's a different example.
00:31:06But it's I look at what happened with the Patriots last year
00:31:10with Demarcus Covington, who was good in his own room and the line,
00:31:13obviously, but then moves up to defensive coordinator struggles
00:31:17and doesn't have anyone to bounce the bounce back off of because
00:31:20nobody else had ever been a defensive coordinator there before.
00:31:23When Jerry Montgomery clearly like that was a weird fit.
00:31:26Right. And so this year, Clinton McMillan, you mentioned
00:31:30he's never had his own room, but he has Terrell Williams
00:31:34above him as the D.C.
00:31:35to bounce back and forth off of as somebody who has not only been
00:31:39a defensive line coach before, but has also coached with McMillan.
00:31:42And that's kind of the same thing with Scott Booker, the next guy
00:31:46who we're also optimistic about.
00:31:47And I agree. I'm optimistic about Mike Smith.
00:31:50I'm optimistic about Clinton McMillan and Scott Booker as well.
00:31:52Another guy who coached on that Tennessee staff.
00:31:55So there's there's continuity coming right over with Vrabel,
00:31:59with Booker, with McMillan.
00:32:00All these guys have coached together in the past,
00:32:02and now they come and run a system they've done together before.
00:32:05So I think that's, you know, that's another one where I look at it.
00:32:08And like, yeah, offense, I like Josh.
00:32:12And then we'll talk about Josh in a few minutes.
00:32:14I have him more optimistic than you do.
00:32:16But the defensive side of the football, I really like the staff they put together.
00:32:20It's a lot of continuity, like you said, and that's what you're at least hoping.
00:32:24Like in Tennessee, they definitely had dogs at like all three levels,
00:32:28but the entire roster wasn't great.
00:32:31And you'd hope that like so if we talk about Scott Booker,
00:32:33you're hoping that Kyle Duggar, who now is having had his second down season.
00:32:37Obviously, injuries had a lot to do with it.
00:32:39But even before he got hurt, we were saying, ah, there's some coverage bus.
00:32:42It seems like it might be him.
00:32:44And he wasn't making the plays that you expected
00:32:46based on his first couple of seasons in the NFL.
00:32:48So with Scott Booker was a defense, was a senior defensive assistant for the Bills.
00:32:53I'm not sure why exactly he got that title.
00:32:54If it maybe had something to do with wanting to take it from Tennessee.
00:32:57I have no idea.
00:32:58I'm not sure if his contract was up or not.
00:33:00But that role, clearly he was pretty well respected by Sean McDermott
00:33:04and the Bills staff.
00:33:04He was a Nichols coach, which is honestly like not the most impressive title.
00:33:08It's it's a pretty significant role because I think teams are realizing
00:33:12how important the nickel defender is now to Ron Johnson was one of the best
00:33:15in the NFL.
00:33:16But I know he missed time and his replacement,
00:33:17according to a friend of the show, Anthony Proaska of Cover One,
00:33:20mentioned that the replacement nickel defender played really well
00:33:23when he thought that had to do with Scott Booker.
00:33:25But Booker, when he was in Tennessee, coach Kevin Byard to a pro bowl
00:33:28and an all pro Kenny Bacara went to a pro bowl under him.
00:33:30So he's got a good track record as well.
00:33:32And again, understands this Mike Brable system
00:33:35where there's going to be a lot of quarters coverage.
00:33:37Basically, a lot of what the Patriots wanted to do last season
00:33:40where it's more split safeties, although they were more covered, too.
00:33:43Not as much quarters now with the Tennessee Titans type of scheme.
00:33:46If Mike Brable carries it over,
00:33:47you're going to see more quarters with different types of cover
00:33:49to mixed in with like the disguises where you don't really know
00:33:52who's going to be the deep half defender.
00:33:54That's what Scott Booker's bread and butter was.
00:33:56So probably a better way of teaching those types of communications,
00:34:00how you pass things off, because there's so much
00:34:03that goes into those types of match coverages.
00:34:06It's going to be tough.
00:34:07And you need somebody who can articulate it well to players.
00:34:09So if Scott Booker has done that in the past, hopefully he can do it again.
00:34:13All right. Talk me through this one, Taylor.
00:34:14Ben McAdoo as optimistic.
00:34:16Now, I would put the last change to be fair.
00:34:20OK, I would say I'm not pessimistic against against this hire
00:34:24because I like what he did last year with Drake.
00:34:26And I know you'll talk about that.
00:34:27I would still say cautiously, though, because they have them
00:34:30on the defensive side of the football.
00:34:32So talk me through it.
00:34:34Convince me why you're optimistic about Ben McAdoo switching sides
00:34:37and helping out the defense this year.
00:34:39Yeah. So what his role was last year, one, he helped out with Drake May.
00:34:42But the major role that he had was basically as a third down specialist.
00:34:45And he was like the scout team for the defense, like the defensive coordinators,
00:34:49the defensive coordinator for the scout team.
00:34:52And all of that was basically him using his offensive knowledge
00:34:54to help the offense understand what the problems they were going to be facing more.
00:34:58And from the story that came out, I believe it was from Mark Daniels.
00:35:01People love that role.
00:35:02And he did. He was really popular.
00:35:03He commanded the room pretty well.
00:35:05The way I see this is now, OK, you're helping the defense.
00:35:07But again, just lending your offensive expertise to the defensive side of the ball.
00:35:11And because there's no pass game coordinator for the defense,
00:35:15this kind of feels like Ben McAdoo helping out Terrell Williams
00:35:19with the pass game stuff, because the defensive line coaches
00:35:22very rarely have a very deep understanding
00:35:24of what's going on on the back end, because it doesn't really affect them.
00:35:26Obviously, these things tie in together.
00:35:28But if you're coaching the defensive line, it's not like linebackers,
00:35:31like maybe the outside linebackers are going to have some drop responsibilities.
00:35:34But the defensive line, you're focused on stopping the run and pass rushing.
00:35:37Not really so much coverage stuff.
00:35:39So I'm thinking, hey, maybe Ben McAdoo can help out with more of that.
00:35:42He can provide some perspective on what the passing game is going to do
00:35:45to inform how they react to things on the back end.
00:35:48So I stay optimistic because this isn't a guy who's calling plays, right?
00:35:51This isn't a guy who I think he will have a significant part in the game plan.
00:35:55But it seems like this role is capitalizing on things he does well.
00:35:58Sure. And that's really why, like Thomas Brown, like Ashton Grant,
00:36:02this is someone who has a background and has had some success in that role.
00:36:06And now they're being asked to basically just lend a helping hand.
00:36:09And that's why it's not so big of a role that I'm nervous about it.
00:36:12I just think, hey, McAdoo was helpful last year.
00:36:15Hopefully he can be helpful this year, just maybe in a different way,
00:36:18but still doing what he does best.
00:36:20I hate to pile on Matt Patricia here because I watched his entire interview
00:36:24with Edelman on Games with Names, and it was awesome.
00:36:27Like, I thought Patricia was great.
00:36:29I found like a I have a newfound respect for him.
00:36:32Not that I didn't before.
00:36:33I thought he was a great defensive coach and he just kind of got caught up
00:36:36in the whole thing. But, you know, that's a story for another day.
00:36:38But, you know, I saw him, right?
00:36:40I spoke to him. Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:43You know, it was a private conversation.
00:36:45But in general, how was that?
00:36:47Honestly, it was just me gushing and just being like,
00:36:50dude, everything I know about defense, I learned from you.
00:36:52Like, I studied your defense growing up and it's what made me fall in love.
00:36:55And he was really nice.
00:36:56Like he asked me, I should have brought up the fact that I went to Syracuse
00:36:59because he's from Syracuse.
00:37:00Oh, yeah. Like a year ago. Yeah, right.
00:37:03I was just like we were both waiting for cars.
00:37:05I was so overwhelmed. I didn't want to be bothersome.
00:37:07I basically just showered him with praise.
00:37:09It was like, all right, thank you.
00:37:10He asked where I was from was really nice.
00:37:12And then I like to every interaction I had, I swear
00:37:16this past couple of weeks were like exposure therapy
00:37:19where I feel like based on our job, like we interact with each other,
00:37:22but not really other people.
00:37:24And I'm always home.
00:37:25And I feel like it's made me a little socially awkward.
00:37:27So I'm just constantly talking to people and just around people.
00:37:30So it was kind of just like, all right, I got to figure it out.
00:37:32But I felt like every time I spoke to someone, I said something
00:37:35where I went back, I was like, why the hell would I say that?
00:37:38Like at one point, I talked about how when on on the pod,
00:37:42the coach's podcast, he talked about Detroit.
00:37:44And remember, I went in the in the group chat and I was like,
00:37:47oh, this is where that comes from.
00:37:48And it's a two tight ends, whatever.
00:37:49And I tell him, I'm like, I go, yeah.
00:37:52When I saw when I found out about Detroit, I texted everybody
00:37:54who doesn't have me blocked because I talk so much about football.
00:37:58Like, why the fuck am I saying this?
00:38:00I was like, he's going to think I'm crazy.
00:38:02And he goes, oh, OK.
00:38:03And I'm like, why the hell did I say that?
00:38:05I was like, it's not even it's not even a thing.
00:38:07So funny.
00:38:08So, yeah, I just went way off topic.
00:38:10But I just it was a great interaction.
00:38:12He was lovely.
00:38:13But I said that and I was just like, he thinks you're a stalker now.
00:38:16Yeah, right. Yeah.
00:38:18I just talk to anything, anything that breathes.
00:38:20I tell them about football until they block my number until they hate me
00:38:23and think I'm a freak.
00:38:25But you won't think that right now.
00:38:26Yeah, right.
00:38:27And I was like, yeah, what's the license plate on the car you're getting into?
00:38:31Anyway, so far, that's so funny.
00:38:33So that happened.
00:38:34Oh, good. Well, I'm glad he again.
00:38:36Good people.
00:38:37Matt, Patricia, you had a good interaction with him.
00:38:39I liked him as a defensive coach.
00:38:40He got in the in the mud with the offense.
00:38:42The reason I mentioned him is because of the McAdoo thing, right?
00:38:46It's not like they're giving back to do the defensive coordinator title, right?
00:38:50It's a be an oversight, be a helping hand.
00:38:53We'll use your expertise.
00:38:55And it's kind of like the position he was in last year
00:38:57where they didn't hand him the offense.
00:38:59They didn't hand him the quarterbacks necessarily.
00:39:01He was kind of just around and helped out with what he was good at.
00:39:04So I find it hard for him to necessarily get in the way on defense,
00:39:08which is why I guess I can, you know, lump that into optimistic with you,
00:39:13because you're right.
00:39:14It's kind of just, hey, what do you think?
00:39:16He's basically just a helper, like he's like, right.
00:39:20So, all right, I'll take it.
00:39:22But let's move on to cautiously optimistic.
00:39:25And first and foremost, it is the OC.
00:39:27It is the most important coach outside of Mike Brable on this staff.
00:39:30And that is Josh McDaniels.
00:39:32Why are you cautiously optimistic about Josh versus
00:39:35outwardly, fully optimistic like I might be?
00:39:39I wanted to put him in optimistic and it's he's in cautiously optimistic,
00:39:43maybe not for reasons people think, OK, because I think his resume
00:39:46obviously speaks for itself.
00:39:47He's been to so many Super Bowls.
00:39:48He's won so many Super Bowls.
00:39:49He worked with the greatest quarterback of all time
00:39:51and has learned also from the greatest quarterback of all time.
00:39:54He has the resume that you wanted for Drake made from all the reports
00:39:57that have come out recently.
00:39:57Mike Rable and Drake may pretty much thought the same thing. Yeah.
00:40:01I also don't think that he's going to struggle to adapt his offense.
00:40:04I think that, again, reports said that he's been he was touring NFL programs.
00:40:09He was touring college programs
00:40:10to get a better idea of how he can evolve his offense.
00:40:13And it's not like he was running some dinosaur scheme, either.
00:40:16I want people to understand that like this guy was in a league two years ago.
00:40:19It's not like everything is passed him by.
00:40:22There are just certain things like, you know, maximizing Drake
00:40:25may as someone who can move around as someone who can, you know,
00:40:28challenge defenses on our PO type of schemes where you just challenge
00:40:31defense with as much as possible with concepts, with motion and all those things.
00:40:35That's where you just want to see him
00:40:36maybe increase those a little bit more like more shotgun, things like that.
00:40:41My skepticism comes with how well he's going to work with Frabel
00:40:45when things get hard.
00:40:47And that's really I think Frabel respects Josh McDaniels.
00:40:50I know that Greg Bedard mentioned how Frabel learned from having inexperienced
00:40:54coordinators when he was in Tennessee, even though Arthur Smith
00:40:57and Matt LaFleur had success, they also struggled at times.
00:41:01And then, you know, with Todd Downing, there were some issues there.
00:41:04And that was why he won in McDaniels, because he had so much success.
00:41:07And another guy they were considering was Eric, the enemy, another guy
00:41:09who has a ton of success calling plays, building offensive programs, et cetera.
00:41:14But if they struggle early on and Mike Frabel starts saying,
00:41:17oh, we're not running the ball enough, we're not doing X, Y, Z.
00:41:19These are two guys with huge egos.
00:41:21That's just how it is.
00:41:22Josh McDaniels has a massive ego because he's had success.
00:41:25Mike Frabel has a massive ego because he's had success.
00:41:28Sure, they may have a shared vision.
00:41:30But if you lose three of your first four games,
00:41:33are we sure that they're still going to see eye to eye?
00:41:37And when they have differing opinions, it doesn't start to crack,
00:41:40right, because there were so many things that we went back and looked at
00:41:43all the kind of small concerns we had last season with the coaching staff
00:41:47and with Mayo, when teams are bad, all of those things get exposed.
00:41:52Those cracks get bigger and bigger, and it's just impossible
00:41:55to hide anything that's really poor that's going on
00:41:58because people point fingers, people start thinking
00:42:01that they have the better ideas and all these things come out right.
00:42:03I will say, honestly, last year, they I think they held things in pretty well.
00:42:07Relative to what we now know.
00:42:08But again, like I wish that we had been more keen
00:42:12on the small things that could have gone wrong.
00:42:14So that as the season unraveled, we we had a closer eye on where they were,
00:42:18because obviously once things went to shit, it was like, oh,
00:42:21everything is just kind of exploding.
00:42:22So that's why I'm cautious about Josh.
00:42:24It's not even him.
00:42:26It's more on whether or not he and Mike Frabel as guys
00:42:29who really are like head coaches, their respective sides of the ball.
00:42:31Although Frabel is the guy, can they still be on the same page
00:42:35and be a strong unit when things get hard?
00:42:37Because like Josh and Bill never really went through that.
00:42:41They didn't have bad seasons.
00:42:42They didn't really have to go through it. Right.
00:42:44And it was also Bill.
00:42:45Like, what the hell is Josh McDaniels going to say to Bill Belichick?
00:42:48Nothing. No one's saying shit to Bill.
00:42:50So it's one thing in that kind of structure where, yeah, you may have a season
00:42:54where you just barely made the playoffs and you have a first round exit,
00:42:57but you're not having four win seasons.
00:42:59You're not being you're not having seasons where you're under 500. Right.
00:43:02So how will any potential strain work with Frabel and Josh?
00:43:05That's my only concern.
00:43:06Other than that, you know, I'm crazy about the Josh hire.
00:43:09If they weren't going to go, Ben Johnson,
00:43:10I thought he made all the sense in the world.
00:43:12And I still think he's the great choice.
00:43:14It's just, you know, are they going to be able to ride
00:43:16through some of the tough times together?
00:43:18Yeah, I don't I don't disagree.
00:43:21I look at it and, you know, now right in the in the off season,
00:43:26optimistic season, as as you know, it's called where, hey, everything looks great
00:43:31on paper, but when push comes to shove, can they actually get through it?
00:43:34Like, you know, if you ask both of them now, I think they would both say,
00:43:38no, we'll be OK.
00:43:39I know that we both think how we think, but we want to have this shared vision,
00:43:42like you mentioned, and we can get through some of these things.
00:43:45But, you know, when the going gets really tough and you're not putting up points
00:43:49and it may be the reason you're losing, like, are they going to be able
00:43:53to work through it? Right.
00:43:54Are they going to, you know, when when things get hot like.
00:43:58You know, Bill O'Brien was teapot, but both of these guys can get hot
00:44:02and get bothered and get pissed off, too.
00:44:04And so you just hope that they can do it.
00:44:07And ultimately, it's going to come down to like, you know, I think what we'll talk
00:44:11about in the mailbag when we get, you know, get to answer some of those questions
00:44:14like it's going to come down to the talent where if they have the talent,
00:44:17I think the offense is going to be fine.
00:44:19If they don't have the talent, that's when they're going to struggle.
00:44:21And that's where the coaching, you know, cracks in the armor,
00:44:25chinks in the armor can kind of get to them.
00:44:27But, you know, that's good.
00:44:29And also, I know there's been questions about whether he can work
00:44:32with a young quarterback.
00:44:33But think about the year with Mac.
00:44:35Mac is pretty.
00:44:36We know he's pretty sensitive guy.
00:44:38Yeah, that's just how it is.
00:44:39Like, he's he's sensitive.
00:44:40He was fine with Josh.
00:44:42True. There were no times we saw like the Bill O'Brien in Germany thing
00:44:46where he flipped out on the sideline after the pick.
00:44:48Like, we never saw that with Josh.
00:44:50I'm sure it happened every once in a while.
00:44:52And if you know, Josh is going to get on your ass if you mess up.
00:44:55But I think he was able to work that balance of like,
00:44:57this is how I help this kid along without destroying his confidence.
00:45:00And again, the fact that he's been around college programs,
00:45:02I think I hope he didn't just improve his scheme.
00:45:06I hope he also learned about coaching tips and working
00:45:08with the younger generation of player.
00:45:10So I also think in that regard, where that could be seen as a question mark
00:45:13and I do want to make sure it plays out,
00:45:15I'm not really worried about him working with the young quarterback either
00:45:17because it worked with Jimmy, worked with Jacobi, worked with Mac.
00:45:21We've never heard about young quarterbacks being like,
00:45:23oh, this Josh McDaniels is just riding me.
00:45:25I can't figure it out.
00:45:27So if anything, it's the pressures from Tom, not really Josh.
00:45:30I think Josh understands.
00:45:31And he's even said in games with names where he said,
00:45:34you got to know how much to put on their plate.
00:45:36You don't want to overwhelm the kid.
00:45:37Like, I think he has a pretty good understanding
00:45:39of how to work with these young guys.
00:45:40So another area where I'm not too concerned, I really think he's a perfect fit.
00:45:44It's just, you know, him and Mike.
00:45:46You have two big, big, you know, type A personalities
00:45:50and the two of those guys trying to run, trying to run the offense
00:45:53and the team as a whole.
00:45:54And I also just think that Drake, A, is good enough
00:45:57and B, has the right head on his shoulders where even when the going
00:46:00will get tough with Josh, I think he's going to work through it and work harder
00:46:03and not, you know, I don't want to say cripple and, you know, kind of fall apart.
00:46:07A little shell kind of.
00:46:08Yeah, exactly.
00:46:09I don't see that with Drake May, at least, you know, didn't see it last year.
00:46:12So, all right, let's move on to Doug Marone, offensive line coach,
00:46:17the most decorated or, you know, experienced guy on this entire staff.
00:46:21He's been pretty much everywhere.
00:46:24Why are you cautiously optimistic about Doug Marone coaching the offensive line?
00:46:28Now, the names on this list, I feel like because they're
00:46:31some of the most experienced people on the staff,
00:46:33it's going to seem like I'm kind of reaching here a little bit.
00:46:36That's the only reason you're optimistic about Ben McAdoo.
00:46:38So, right.
00:46:39And the only reason is because of the roles, right?
00:46:41Where a lot of the guys I was optimistic about, it's because, yeah,
00:46:43these are position coaches who have experience in their roles
00:46:46or experience with high ranking leadership positions.
00:46:50And they're going to defer to someone who I think is a good fit
00:46:53for what they do well.
00:46:54This is one where it's mostly focusing on guys in charge, Doug Marone.
00:46:59Oh, apparently the Patriots just officially released
00:47:03Chooks Okorafor. Nice.
00:47:05Scheduled to be a free agent in March.
00:47:07Oh, you know, smart move, whatever.
00:47:10Where was I? What was I just talking about?
00:47:11I was talking about Doug Marone.
00:47:12Doug Marone. So obviously, Chooks Okorafor will not be coached by Doug Marone.
00:47:16That's too bad. Yes. Yes. Good timing.
00:47:19So Doug Marone, a former NFL player, has decades of coaching experience.
00:47:23Also has a relationship with Bill O'Brien because he worked at B.C.
00:47:26And he has a relationship with Dante Skarnecchia.
00:47:29Although Skar did push back on the idea that he's going to be helping
00:47:31with the staff or whatever, vehemently pushed back against that.
00:47:34Just want to note.
00:47:35Also, Marone is well regarded by B.C.'s young players
00:47:39like Donovan Ezraku and Ozzy Trapillo.
00:47:41I spoke to both of those guys and they mentioned that he's really helped them
00:47:44develop and they had a ton of praise for how he's helped their approaches to the game.
00:47:48But when I've spoken to some people, one person I spoke to
00:47:52described Doug Marone as antiquated, mentioned his players didn't get better
00:47:56and said that he never adjusted and specifically pointed to the Alabama season
00:48:01as one that was particularly embarrassing for Doug Marone.
00:48:04Also, will he be a personality fit with younger players?
00:48:07Because a big thing is that Marone is kind of a bristly personality,
00:48:10kind of no nonsense, probably similar to Scar and that he's old school.
00:48:13He's going to demand a lot.
00:48:15I know Hotaling is the assistant.
00:48:17I've heard that he's maybe going to be the bridge
00:48:20in terms of personality between those. Maybe that works out.
00:48:23But with Marone, honestly, his recent track record isn't great.
00:48:26And you can't really deny that.
00:48:27He obviously has a ton of experience, has been at a bunch of stops,
00:48:30has had coaching experience as well.
00:48:32So when you look on paper like, yeah, pretty exciting.
00:48:34But what's he going to do with the Patriots offensive line
00:48:37that has like two or three young players that you're hoping can ascend
00:48:40at some point, but you can't really depend on?
00:48:42You're not sure.
00:48:43Is he going to be able to maybe work better with older guys?
00:48:46We're last season.
00:48:46We know with Scott Peters, he worked pretty well with older players,
00:48:49but the younger guys, it took them a while to kind of latch on.
00:48:51So offensive line coach is the most important position
00:48:55after probably offense coordinator and maybe quarterback coach.
00:48:58I think you can even argue that offensive line coach is more important
00:49:00because offense coordinators are so integral in quarterback development.
00:49:03So I just got to see it from Doug Marone, because again,
00:49:06the recent track record hasn't really been there.
00:49:08And the fact that people who I trust are saying that, you know,
00:49:12they didn't love the idea of him being the head offensive line coach.
00:49:15That gives me some pause.
00:49:16So I'm just going to have to see it before I really buy in.
00:49:18No, it's a fair point.
00:49:19I mean, yeah, he has experience, but how much of it is good experience, right?
00:49:24Like he was a head coach, but, you know, it wasn't a great head coach
00:49:27outside of that one run to the AFC Championship game with Jacksonville
00:49:30where they lost on that on that Deion Lewis play.
00:49:33But like, yeah, he again, he's he's done decent work
00:49:36and he has experience as an offensive line coach.
00:49:38But I like the word antiquated that you threw in there.
00:49:40Like, is it?
00:49:42You know, is it going to work again? Right.
00:49:44Or is he going to get on the same page as as Josh and is like
00:49:49there's a lot of ifs around this one, which is why I would I would agree with you.
00:49:53Like, yeah, I like the fact that he's done it before.
00:49:56That's maybe the one thing he has over a guy like Scott Peters
00:49:59who never had had his room before and kind of been the head offensive line coach.
00:50:03So hopefully it is sort of a bridge to hoteling, like you mentioned,
00:50:07and that those guys can work together and kind of get this thing rolling.
00:50:10But I would agree cautiously optimistic is the way to go.
00:50:14And one other quick thing with Marone, and I'm going to mention it
00:50:17with downing later, but they also fall under the umbrella of, yes,
00:50:20it's Josh's system like Josh can coach everyone.
00:50:23He can make them better.
00:50:24So you could argue maybe he should be an optimist because, hey, you know,
00:50:27I gave it to Ashton Grant and Thomas Brown because it's more Josh.
00:50:30But with offensive line, I just it's not quite the same
00:50:34because it is such a unique type of role where you're working with so many guys
00:50:38and you have to be on the same page.
00:50:40And even if it is Josh's system again, how is he coaching it?
00:50:43Like this is going to be their sixth offensive line coach in six seasons.
00:50:46So I just got to see something out of them.
00:50:48Like, that's why I have even more because offensive line
00:50:51is a unique position to coach.
00:50:53And because of just their track record for the team,
00:50:56they desperately need a good offensive line coach
00:50:58and someone who can provide some level of continuity because he did good work.
00:51:02Like, I just got to see that first.
00:51:03Fair. All right.
00:51:05Let's talk about two defensive guys here, both from Tennessee.
00:51:08One is the defensive coordinator, Terrell Williams,
00:51:10and the other is inside linebackers coach Zach Kerr.
00:51:14Why are you cautiously optimistic about these two guys coming over
00:51:16from Tennessee compared to the other ones?
00:51:18This is really just because they're both in their roles for the first time.
00:51:21That's the only reason for both.
00:51:22Now, Terrell Williams, proven track record with defensive linemen,
00:51:25well regarded as a teacher and a developer, has a very strong relationship
00:51:29with Mike Vrabel, who actually promoted him to I believe it was assistant
00:51:32head coach of their last season in Tennessee together.
00:51:35Let him coach a preseason game, which Terrell Williams was very grateful for.
00:51:38It believe I don't know how popular the trend was, but Vrabel
00:51:41was the first person to actually do that and let his assistants
00:51:44be the head coach for a preseason game.
00:51:46Dan Campbell loved Terrell Williams first said,
00:51:49I think he's the best line coach in the league.
00:51:51He knows how to develop.
00:51:52He's got experience in game planning.
00:51:54Big part of defensive coordinator, which makes me feel a little bit better
00:51:57about him getting the title.
00:51:58And he's going to be beneficial for our guys up front.
00:52:01I know for both the Titans and the Lions, Terrell Williams
00:52:04was the run game coordinator.
00:52:06So that's why I was kind of going back to Ben McAdoo.
00:52:08Maybe he's going to be kind of like a pseudo passing game coordinator
00:52:11where he gives his advice and maybe helps out with Clint, with
00:52:15with Scott Booker and with Justin Hamilton on the back end.
00:52:19Also, Dan Campbell, another quote for Terrell Williams.
00:52:22I don't want to go too far without pads on yet.
00:52:24I believe this is during their offseason program.
00:52:25But I just know fundamentally, I already feel a difference
00:52:28with what we're doing with our D line where we're striking our ability to shed.
00:52:32It's starting to show up, man.
00:52:34I feel like these little things that he's emphasizing are showing up.
00:52:37And the Lions really famously last season.
00:52:39Now we can actually say last season we're able to get the most,
00:52:42despite the fact they had a ton of injuries on their defensive line.
00:52:45They were turning guys who really just role players into real contributors,
00:52:49which the Patriots obviously could have used last season
00:52:52when Christian Barmore went down.
00:52:53And obviously later, also Jaqueline Roy.
00:52:55My biggest question is what his role is going to be.
00:52:58Is Terrell Williams going to be the one calling plays?
00:53:00Is he capable of calling plays?
00:53:02Is that going to go to someone like a Mike Vrabel?
00:53:04I don't know.
00:53:05That's really my only big question mark with Terrell Williams
00:53:08as the defense coordinator, not just the defensive line coach.
00:53:11How is that going to work out?
00:53:12And how are the play calling duties going to be divvied up?
00:53:14How are the game planning duties going to be divvied up?
00:53:17Because I think that he can handle the front and the run game stuff.
00:53:20I'm confident in that.
00:53:21I just don't know about the other things.
00:53:23If you tell me that Mike Vrabel is calling plays, I'm skeptical.
00:53:26But relative to Terrell Williams, I'm feeling pretty good about it,
00:53:28as long as also the secondary stuff that he's getting help
00:53:31and he works well with those guys.
00:53:33And then Zach Kerr, pretty straightforward.
00:53:35He was the Tennessee quality control coach in 2020,
00:53:38became the assistant inside linebackers coach in 2021
00:53:41under the Eagles current inside linebackers coach Bobby King.
00:53:44So it makes sense he wasn't promoted.
00:53:46Clearly, Bobby King is doing a pretty good job in Philadelphia
00:53:48and is a good coach.
00:53:50So for Zach Kerr, more just that he's an unknown than anything else.
00:53:53But he does bring continuity, has been on Vrabel's staff
00:53:55and worked under Bobby King.
00:53:57So hopefully he was able to learn a lot from that experience.
00:53:59But really, it's again, for those two guys, it's more than anything
00:54:02that I'm not 100% sure what how they're going to serve their roles
00:54:06because they've never been in them before.
00:54:08Do you really think Vrabel would call plays or are you just speculating?
00:54:12I think he could.
00:54:13I know I know that that's been reported that it's a possibility.
00:54:16And also, I just don't know who else would,
00:54:18because I don't think anybody else here has experience
00:54:20being a defensive play caller.
00:54:21Yeah, I just wonder what he wants to do as far as, you know,
00:54:24we talk about like the CEO type role where he likes to have his hands
00:54:27in pretty much everything and kind of help the offense, help the defense,
00:54:30where, you know, if you're calling plays on defense,
00:54:33you don't have the ability necessarily to, you know, run over the offense
00:54:36during, you know, when they're up and things like that.
00:54:38So, you know, it would be interesting, but it is also a good point, right?
00:54:41Where nobody else on the on the staff has called offensive plays before.
00:54:44So you wonder if Vrabel either takes it over, does that, or also,
00:54:49you know, has to take it over at some point in the season if things don't go well.
00:54:52So we'll see what happens there.
00:54:53But that's a good point to note that he is the only one
00:54:56with play calling experience on the defensive side of the football.
00:54:59Now, finally, Taylor, two guys you are skeptical about.
00:55:02I would tend to agree definitely on the first one.
00:55:05And that is wide receivers coach Todd Downing.
00:55:08Talk to me about Downing and why you're skeptical about him
00:55:10coaching the wide receivers here.
00:55:12So he's got a pretty interesting background.
00:55:14He's coached quarterbacks.
00:55:15He's coached tight ends.
00:55:16He's been an offensive coordinator and he's been a pass game coordinator.
00:55:19Actually, Derek Carr made three Pro Bowls when he was with the Raiders.
00:55:22He was named PFS quarterbacks coach of the year in 2015,
00:55:25and he was the offensive coordinator for last year, right?
00:55:28I think so. Yeah, that was the first year that he made the Pro Bowl.
00:55:31The MVP. Yeah, OK.
00:55:32Or he was like in MVP consideration. OK.
00:55:34I think so. Yeah.
00:55:35So in the offensive coordinator for the Titans from 2021 to 2022.
00:55:39Now, this is where it gets a little more sketchy because he was fired
00:55:42from by Tennessee.
00:55:44He had a DUI in his last season as the offensive coordinator.
00:55:47I know that had some part
00:55:48in kind of just a downward spiral for the offense that season.
00:55:51But also, they just didn't perform very well under Todd Downing.
00:55:54Part of that was the talent on the team or rather the lack thereof
00:55:58injuries and all that, what have you.
00:55:59But the fact that he got fired and he doesn't have experience
00:56:02coaching wide receivers or being in a Josh McDaniels offense.
00:56:05It's just a lot of unknowns is really the biggest thing.
00:56:07Now, I do know he is still respected as a coach.
00:56:10This is a situation
00:56:11where he was not good as an offense coordinator and a passing game
00:56:13coordinator with the Jets.
00:56:15And I think he worked with quarterbacks with the Jets as well.
00:56:17I'm not sure.
00:56:17But whatever he did with the Jets, it wasn't.
00:56:19And do I do I do I have this right?
00:56:21I think when they they ultimately took quite a bigger role
00:56:25when Hackett kind of got pushed into the.
00:56:28I was going to say, I think they took play calling away from Hackett
00:56:30and gave it to Todd Downing.
00:56:32Yeah, this year.
00:56:33So I just know that nothing the Jets did.
00:56:35She was very good.
00:56:36So this is a situation where I am slightly optimistic
00:56:39because he has fewer responsibilities and he's coached tight ends before.
00:56:42So maybe some of that will translate to receivers.
00:56:45And again, Josh is going to make sure things are coached
00:56:47the way he wants them coached.
00:56:48I'm just again, I'm skeptical
00:56:50because I don't have a lot of reason to be optimistic
00:56:52about him specifically coaching wide receivers.
00:56:54Kind of surprised this didn't go to Wes Welker.
00:56:57I thought that this would have been a spot for him.
00:57:00And yeah, it's just the it's the wide receivers coach for me
00:57:04where like offensive line coach, it's such an important position
00:57:08for this team, and I would have preferred someone
00:57:11with wide receiver coaching experience here where, yeah, he's done a lot.
00:57:14Right.
00:57:15And I think his the track record and the fact that he, you know,
00:57:19frankly, continues to get jobs and roles in Oakland and Tennessee and New York
00:57:22and now here, like he is a respected coach.
00:57:24He's worked with, you know, Brable before and Brable.
00:57:28Brable in the in the Titans fired him at one point.
00:57:30Now they're going to work together.
00:57:31So clearly there's something about Todd Downing that he likes.
00:57:34I just would rather the wide receivers.
00:57:37They're all a lot of them are so young.
00:57:39They need developing on this team.
00:57:42You just hope that Todd Downing can be that guy.
00:57:44So that's where I just I would have liked a little bit more experience there.
00:57:48But we'll see where it goes.
00:57:49And, you know, if he can get on the same page as McDaniels, then things,
00:57:53you know, this would be a different story.
00:57:54Finally, cornerbacks coach Justin Hamilton.
00:57:58What's wrong with him?
00:57:59And I'm joking when I say it like that.
00:58:00But why are you skeptical about him coaching the corner?
00:58:03So he was Virginia Tech's
00:58:05defensive coordinator and safety coach from 2020 to 2021.
00:58:08Right. So that's pretty impressive.
00:58:10I believe he also played the position at Virginia Tech.
00:58:12He played safety.
00:58:13But the reality is he has huge shoes to fill.
00:58:16Mike Pellegrino, for our money, is one of the best
00:58:18cornerbacks coaches in the NFL, has experienced such deep experience
00:58:22with that room, knows Christian Gonzalez, understands how to maximize him.
00:58:26I also know that in the room, he actually allowed Gonzalez
00:58:29to have more of a vocal role because it's like, well, Christian Gonzalez
00:58:32is doing something.
00:58:33Obviously, not everyone can do what he does, but you want an idea
00:58:36of what his thought process is because he can play the game at such a high level.
00:58:41And with Mike Pellegrino gone, like you have to go in that room
00:58:44and you need to be able to coach those guys up the same way, where Patriots
00:58:48corners were very good when it came to match principles
00:58:50and not getting picked off against rub routes.
00:58:52It was a little inconsistent last season,
00:58:54but a lot of that had to do with personnel.
00:58:56Marcus Jones being a full time starter for the first season.
00:58:59And just again, that's a high standard that Justin Hamilton
00:59:02is going to have to fill.
00:59:03And he's also never actually been a full time NFL position coach.
00:59:06He was the Colts assistant defensive backs coach in twenty twenty four in twenty
00:59:11twenty three.
00:59:12He was the Titans defensive quality control coach.
00:59:14So this is a massive, frankly, red flag because, yes,
00:59:18he's done it at the college level was a coordinator.
00:59:20That's awesome.
00:59:21But we have no idea what it's going to look like when he is coaching
00:59:24specifically cornerbacks at the NFL level because he's never had his own position
00:59:28group at the NFL level or to my knowledge, coach cornerbacks at all.
00:59:32Specifically, obviously, defensive backs coach probably overlap a little bit,
00:59:35but it's just we don't have much to go on.
00:59:38So it's not even like Zach Kerr, where at least he was an assistant for a while.
00:59:41And it makes sense.
00:59:42Like he was coaching a different position.
00:59:44And I don't want to underrate the defensive backs coach
00:59:47because I don't know what exactly he did.
00:59:49But again, he was an assistant.
00:59:50So just a lot of unknown with Hamilton and Downing
00:59:53relative to the roles that they're going to be serving the season.
00:59:56So it's hard for me to really be even cautiously optimistic
00:59:58when I have almost no idea what they're going to bring.
01:00:01Yeah, I don't disagree with you on any of it.
01:00:03Again, there's the there's an upside with both of those guys.
01:00:06I just think that those are the ones, as you mentioned, is kind of like.
01:00:10It almost could go off the rails easier than it could be successful,
01:00:14if you will, with both of those guys, so we'll see what happens.
01:00:17That's the ones we're skeptical about.
01:00:18We're cautiously optimistic about Josh McDaniels, Doug Marone,
01:00:22Terrell Williams and Zach Kerr.
01:00:24And we are excited about Thomas Brown, Ashton Grant, Tony Dews, Mike Smith,
01:00:28Clinton McMillan, Scott Booker and Ben McAdoo.
01:00:31A loaded Patriots coaching staff here heading into next season.
01:00:36We had a mailbag tag on the back of this.
01:00:38I know we went longer than expected,
01:00:41but let me answer like a handful and then maybe do a longer mailbag tomorrow.
01:00:45Yeah, we'll do a longer mailbag later in the week,
01:00:47but we'll throw up a couple of quick questions.
01:00:49We'll go rapid fire here
01:00:51and kind of do it Super Bowl related.
01:00:54We'll throw in the Super Bowl related ones now.
01:00:55We'll dive into the rest of them later in the week,
01:00:58because obviously the Super Bowl was yesterday.
01:01:00The season is over.
01:01:02Man, the Philadelphia Eagles spanked the Chiefs.
01:01:05I haven't taken like I was tweeting throughout the game a little bit last night,
01:01:09but I haven't really thrown my thoughts on anything like that was wild.
01:01:14I could not believe that entire game, just the way that went and the way it can.
01:01:19Mahomes, the first half was just awful.
01:01:21The throw to Cooper Jejean, it was like a throw behind your,
01:01:25you know, thrown across your body like, what are you doing?
01:01:27And it's like, yeah, you know,
01:01:28those are the throws that he's made and what have made him so successful.
01:01:31But he just seemed rattled.
01:01:33And I you know, the thing with Mahomes to me was
01:01:36he had more to prove in this game than than I thought.
01:01:39And I've given him his flowers, you know, for a lot of it.
01:01:42And I'm a huge fan of his.
01:01:43I already think he's the second greatest quarterback, blah, blah, blah.
01:01:45And if you asked me before the game on who has the most to prove in this game,
01:01:49I would have never said Mahomes.
01:01:50But you look at it before and after, and it was
01:01:54it was going to be a three-peat and it was going to be his fourth
01:01:56and he was going to be the only one to three-peat.
01:01:58And now it's like he's three and two in Super Bowls.
01:02:01He's gotten blown out in two Super Bowls.
01:02:03The point differential of him in Super Bowls is like minus 25
01:02:08because all of his wins have been close and his losses and blowouts.
01:02:11Andy Reid's getting older, Travis Kelsey's getting older.
01:02:14This kind of feels like it's kind of turning into the
01:02:16maybe there's a 10-year stretch with this guy like, you know, like Brady had.
01:02:20And can he get back to the top?
01:02:22And it's silly to do after one game, but it's funny how fast things change with him.
01:02:27So that's kind of where we're at.
01:02:28So realizing those are my sort of thoughts on that.
01:02:31But we'll talk about some Super Bowl related questions here.
01:02:34And the first and foremost is
01:02:36who else spent the entire Super Bowl saying that guy's a future patriot?
01:02:40That guy's a future patriot.
01:02:41A.J. Brown, Josh Swett, Milton Williams, Trey Smith.
01:02:44We'll use this as the jumping off point, Taylor.
01:02:47What what guys in this in this game yesterday
01:02:50do you think could should be patriots and who you're going after?
01:02:53I know your big one was Milton Williams.
01:02:54He had a great game yesterday.
01:02:56So did Josh Swett.
01:02:57So talk to me about some of these guys.
01:02:59So A.J. Brown feels like kind of a long shot, but he did have some kind of
01:03:03he was not happy at one point in the game.
01:03:05I wasn't listening to commentary.
01:03:06I don't know what exactly happened, but hopefully he wants out of Philly
01:03:09because it feels like he would be very happy to reunite with Mike Vrabel.
01:03:13Josh Swett, I'll be honest, the plan for blocking him was pretty odd.
01:03:17There were like two plays where he was blocked by skilled position players,
01:03:20which made absolutely no sense to me.
01:03:22But still, well, rounded player showed you what kind of impact he can bring.
01:03:26Milton Williams, man.
01:03:28I feel like the Patriots might hit man Trey Smith.
01:03:31I think the Patriots might see them.
01:03:33It's kind of luxury picks because on paper you have guys
01:03:36that can fill both the roles, but like Christian Farmore, you have no idea.
01:03:39What his health situation is like.
01:03:41God doesn't give you any pass rush.
01:03:43And then it left guard.
01:03:44Leighton Robinson looked better at the end of the year,
01:03:46but still was like one of PFF's lowest graded guards, period.
01:03:49It's still very much unproven.
01:03:51You could argue that Cole Strange, you know, is part of that competition.
01:03:54If David Andrews is healthy, Caden Wallace could also play guard.
01:03:57But still, if you are saying no half measures, I'm not taking any chances.
01:04:01I want to protect Drake May and solidify the interior.
01:04:04You get Trey Smith.
01:04:05And it's a similar thing with the defensive line where even with Christian
01:04:09Barmore, I would rather a defensive line with Barmore and Milton Williams.
01:04:11I think that is one of the best interiors in football.
01:04:14And I don't think it would be particularly close.
01:04:15Like that's like top five.
01:04:17I think if Barmore is healthy.
01:04:18So Josh Swett makes the most sense because they don't have
01:04:23an edge rusher to speak of.
01:04:24And I also think Joshua is a better player than Keon White,
01:04:27even though I think on paper,
01:04:28if you're just talking about projecting the depth chart,
01:04:30I think the Patriots have a starter everywhere, but outside corner
01:04:33opposite Christian Gonzalez.
01:04:35But you can also upgrade, right?
01:04:36Because if it's Anthony Jennings and Keon White,
01:04:38well, Keon White kicks inside,
01:04:39Anthony Jennings off the field for a pass or a situation.
01:04:42You have no edge rushers.
01:04:43So Josh Swett seems like a slam dunk type of signing.
01:04:46Also said the Patriots fans been blowing him up on social media.
01:04:49Continue to do that as long as he's not going to stop and he doesn't like it.
01:04:53But also Milton Williams and Trey Smith.
01:04:54I just think they're
01:04:56probably going to be the two best players to hit it for agency.
01:04:58T Higgins feels like less and less likely that he's actually going to hit the market.
01:05:01The Bengals can actually tag him and pay less than they probably would
01:05:05if he just made a new deal,
01:05:06because he's probably going to demand something like 28.
01:05:08I think if you tag him, it's like 26 million.
01:05:11So if they tag him, he'll probably like do a sit out or something.
01:05:16He'll like he'll be pissed, which they may make that decision
01:05:19because it's the Bengals and they're cheap and they could do that.
01:05:21But I don't know.
01:05:24That doesn't seem like good business for them, but they might.
01:05:26Right. And then with Milton Williams and Trey Smith,
01:05:29these are two young players who are at the top of their positions.
01:05:33If you want good players and you're going to be showing out money.
01:05:36I don't know, I just think that makes the most sense.
01:05:38So maybe it's not like the biggest needs that you have,
01:05:41but you need pass protection and you need pass rush.
01:05:45Frankly, I don't really care where they come from.
01:05:46And there's not a lot of great tackles on the market.
01:05:48There's not a lot of great edge rushers.
01:05:50But Milton Williams and Trey Smith.
01:05:52Also, I would just love to watch those battles and camp like Milton against him
01:05:56or and when you like that's just iron sharp and iron type of situation.
01:05:59So though and also I know people mentioned Zach Vaughn.
01:06:03I don't know if that makes sense.
01:06:05It depends on how the Patriots feel about Bentley and Tavai.
01:06:07Because people forget because last year sucked for Tavai.
01:06:11This is still one of the best linebacker tandems in the league.
01:06:13Even if schematically the Titans want to go with more 220 pounders
01:06:17like Bentley has shown that he can run the pole and cover to like he's fine.
01:06:22I think especially as a guy who's going to be a free agent, I think in 2026,
01:06:25I think 2025, you can run with Bentley and Tavai.
01:06:28Maybe add somebody like I think a Jack Gibbons.
01:06:30I think he's going to be a free agent.
01:06:32He spent a few seasons in Tennessee, actually was signed by them
01:06:34as an undrafted free agent.
01:06:36Maybe you add just more depth so that if Bentley goes down
01:06:38because injuries have been a concern for him, you have a little bit more behind him.
01:06:42But I just don't see Zach Vaughn making a ton of sense like Nick Bolton.
01:06:46I would love either of those guys to be at the second level for the Patriots.
01:06:48Nick Bolton makes a ton of sense.
01:06:50But again, unless they're planning on trading Bentley or Tavai,
01:06:53I just don't know how you make it work.
01:06:54I wonder if I wonder how the Tavai situation is going to go with the call.
01:06:58And so it's again, it's I don't want to say it's water under the bridge,
01:07:02but it's already like, you know, a month away from that saga.
01:07:05New coach, new thing.
01:07:06Like, let's let's throw it away.
01:07:07But, you know, that that could change things, too.
01:07:10Like you said, if they do end up trading him, go get one of those guys.
01:07:13But otherwise, you're right.
01:07:14When when Bentley's in the game to buy so much better,
01:07:17when he was kind of had to be the main man, it wasn't as good.
01:07:19But we'll see what happens there.
01:07:21Our friend Kevin Moore saying how much are you paying Josh Swett
01:07:24and why is 300 million not enough?
01:07:27We'll see what happens there.
01:07:28And if they do, I know I know PFF says he's going to make like 18 million.
01:07:33I think for the Patriots might have to be like 18 or 19 or 19 to 20, to be honest.
01:07:37Yeah. All right.
01:07:38I have one more that I had in here if I can find it.
01:07:43Oh, should Mason Graham get the same draft hype as a guy like Abdul Carter
01:07:47watching a guy like Jalen Carter last night or Milton Williams?
01:07:51Those guys on the you know, on the interior, the run stuffers, right?
01:07:55Why isn't Mason Graham?
01:07:56Which I know you're a Mason Graham guy, but in general, like, you know,
01:07:59should he be taken maybe over Abdul Carter or should be in the same conversation?
01:08:04I don't think so.
01:08:05I think Abdul Carter is more well-rounded, more versatile.
01:08:08I know he's got some issues against the run, but I think those can improve
01:08:11if he maybe just gets a little stronger at the NFL level.
01:08:13But like he's big.
01:08:14I think he's like two fifty to forty five.
01:08:17Let me see.
01:08:17I know he's like about the same size as Micah Parsons.
01:08:21He's two fifty.
01:08:22So it's not like he's a small guy with with Abdul Carter.
01:08:25I don't think you look at his game and see anything that like terrifies you.
01:08:29You're like, yeah, he can be better as a run stopper.
01:08:31But like, dude, if you can provide that pass rush, that's OK.
01:08:34Like maybe play you inside if we have to.
01:08:36Like, we'll figure it out.
01:08:37Mason Graham, as much as I love him
01:08:40and he can overcome a lot of his skill issues,
01:08:43his body control, his explosiveness, his technique.
01:08:46Like he's an impressive guy to watch.
01:08:48But the size is an issue sometimes, even though I think he's great
01:08:51against double teams, especially as a pass rusher.
01:08:53I think it was against Texas.
01:08:56There was some game.
01:08:57I remember like one guard just shut him down like he couldn't get around the guy
01:09:01and he just doesn't have enough power for that to be like his thing.
01:09:04So I think was really like it's like Pro Bowl level guards
01:09:08who have a lot of girth and they are really smart.
01:09:10So they're not going to get beat.
01:09:12Technically, I think he's going to have trouble, whereas Carter,
01:09:14I think is going to be a handful for every single person he lines up against.
01:09:18So I just think there are different categories as much as I like Mason Graham.
01:09:21He has short arms.
01:09:22He's small.
01:09:23He overcomes those the vast majority of the time,
01:09:25but they are glaring issues that you can't overlook.
01:09:28Whereas with Carter, I don't really have as many concerns that are that jarring.
01:09:32Yeah, I got I hope that blue card is there at number four.
01:09:35And I hope I hope like I just hope it's easy for them.
01:09:39Right. Like if one of these guys falls, I don't think they're going to.
01:09:42But if Hunter or him falls, it feels like just stick and pick.
01:09:45If it ends up being, you know, the Mason Graham, Will Campbell,
01:09:48Calvin Banks area like you want to trade back, maybe trade back.
01:09:51You wonder what they do.
01:09:52There is a tradeback question in here, but let's save it for the next time
01:09:56because, frankly, we're at an hour, 10 minutes here.
01:09:59It's been fun, but we got to get out of here
01:10:02and we got to spread out the content for the rest of the week
01:10:05because Pat's Daily is back after a two week break.
01:10:09So me and Taylor will be back at some point this week, probably tomorrow.
01:10:12We'll keep it as daily as possible.
01:10:14We'll obviously keep you guys updated on what is next to come.
01:10:18But it was good to be back.
01:10:19We finally we finally hit it.
01:10:20It's like I keep mentioning it, but it's like, you know,
01:10:23you forget to do these things.
01:10:24You forget how you're going to talk and interact.
01:10:26And all of a sudden you're back like nothing happened.
01:10:28So that's going to do it for us here on this episode of Patriots Daily
01:10:33Rate Review and subscribe to Patriots Press Pass.
01:10:36The offseason is officially here.
01:10:38The season is over and we are on to 2025.
01:10:41So we'll have you covered with everything.
01:10:43Patriots just about every single day here.
01:10:45So thanks for tuning in.
01:10:47Taylor, thanks for joining me.
01:10:48And until next time, take care of yourselves.
01:10:51Take care of each other.
01:10:52And we'll see you next time. Peace out, everyone.

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