In this episode of the Jeff Fenster show, guest Drew Brees shares his experience of overcoming adversity and achieving success. Brees recounts his experience of suffering a serious knee injury in high school, which cost him his football, basketball, and baseball seasons.
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00:00 Welcome back to the Jeff Fenster show for another segment of Lessons Learned where we are going to recap the top seven
00:06 takeaways from Drew Brees on overcoming adversity.
00:09 Number one, finding the light at the end of the tunnel.
00:13 Do you mind taking me back to the first major, we'll call it, you say failure,
00:18 I'll say lesson in your life that you thought might, maybe not break you, but it tested you.
00:24 It was the one that made you go, "Okay, you know what? I got to figure this out. Like this was a serious setback."
00:29 Yeah, you know, so many of mine early on came within the realm of sports,
00:36 you know, within the realm of football.
00:38 You know, because that's where, that's obviously where my focus was.
00:42 And I think that's where, I mean, that's why I'm such a believer in team sports and just sports in general,
00:46 because I think it teaches you so many life lessons.
00:49 I was a high school football player in the state of Texas,
00:54 went to a pretty perennial powerhouse school called Westlake High School in Austin.
00:59 And, you know, year in and year out, we were competing for state championships.
01:04 We were going deep into the playoffs and somehow, some way, I became the starting quarterback for this school.
01:10 And I was a three-sport athlete. I was playing football, basketball, baseball.
01:13 And really, if you would ask me what order those were in, it was probably baseball, basketball, football.
01:18 I think football was maybe third. But I kind of had a family, you know, lineage of playing football.
01:25 And I live in the state of Texas.
01:27 - Right in New Heights. - It's kind of a requirement.
01:29 So here I am my junior year and starting quarterback for the team, for the football team.
01:36 Probably the best team we've had there, maybe ever, in the history of our school.
01:39 So we are on our way to going to win a state championship.
01:42 And third round of the playoffs, I end up coming off of a bootleg pass and I get hit.
01:47 I didn't see it coming and I come down and kind of unstable on my left knee and just feel this, you know, this hard separation.
01:55 And go to the ground and realize very quickly that something is seriously wrong.
02:00 And go to the sideline and have the orthopedic surgeon look at me and say, "Hey, you just tore your ACL."
02:05 And probably a lot of other things. I ended up tearing my MCL, my lateral meniscus as well.
02:10 And so, you know, bad knee injury. And this is 27 years ago.
02:15 I mean, even nowadays, like look at Odell Beckham, Odell Beckham Jr. tore his ACL in the Super Bowl.
02:22 And that was more than a year ago now, right?
02:25 He chose not to sign anywhere last year. I don't know if that was a result of knee.
02:27 But bottom line is like that takes a long time. And 27 years ago, it was even tougher surgery and recovery.
02:35 - Today, it's the best it's ever been. - Yeah.
02:37 Today, you're still six to eight months, eight months, you know, and then it was probably eight to 12 months.
02:43 So for me to have somebody look at me and basically say like, "Okay, you hurt your knee.
02:51 Not sure if how it's going to respond or recover."
02:54 Not only did that in my football season, but I miss now basketball season and I miss baseball season.
03:00 This is my junior year. This is when you get recruited, right?
03:02 So my dream as a kid was to go and be a college athlete and to be a multi-sport athlete.
03:07 And as trivial as that might sound, I mean, as a kid, like everything revolves around that, right?
03:14 - It's not trivial. It's your dream. - That was your identity, right?
03:17 - Yes. It's no different than any other dream. - Right.
03:20 So I remember at that moment thinking, you know, "My God, why me? Why now? Like, why, you know, could this happen?"
03:28 And it kind of sent me on this journey. I was like 5'11", 170 pounds at that time.
03:35 And I remember just kind of looking at this rehab process like, "All right, well, regardless, like, I am just going to take this one day at a time.
03:41 And I'm going to work as hard as I possibly can. And I'm going to do whatever those doctors tell me.
03:45 I'm going to set short-term goals for myself. And, you know, I'm not going to think, I can't think 8 to 12 months from now, right?
03:51 Because that's just, that's overwhelming, right? But like, what are the short-term goals, you know, that I can sit here and accomplish?
03:56 And, you know, "Hey, Doc, when, what range of motion, you know, when am I going to get full range of motion?"
04:02 Well, it's not for, you know, nine weeks. Okay, well, hey, six weeks, I'm going to beat that.
04:06 Like, so whatever benchmark you put in front of me, like, I'm just going to focus on beating that, right?
04:12 And so I think it just gives you these short-term goals. And before you know it, you know, four or five months have passed,
04:18 and you've made extreme progress. And you're like, "Okay, like, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel."
04:22 - Number two, trusting the process.
04:25 - To have that focus of, okay, short-term goals, because a lot of people would probably at that age not be able to,
04:32 identify how to attack that. - Yeah, yeah. I would say this, and I learned this from that.
04:38 I also learned this when I hurt my shoulder here with the San Diego Chargers, and thought that I might not play football again.
04:47 - Cost you your job in San Diego. - No, it did, absolutely.
04:50 - And I was a Charger fan at the time. - Yeah. And didn't have many people knocking on my door after that, too.
04:55 It was really two teams, it was Miami Dolphins and New Orleans Saints.
04:59 But I had doctors tell me I had a 25% chance of ever coming back and playing again.
05:04 I find that you go to another place, mentally, psychologically, spiritually,
05:11 when you feel like something is totally being taken away from you.
05:16 Like that your dream is just being ripped out of your chest, right?
05:22 And that's really the way I felt, especially with this right shoulder injury, leaving San Diego.
05:27 And to a certain extent, as a high school kid with a knee injury, was it,
05:32 "You are not going to be allowed to do this anymore," right?
05:35 I mean, that's—and so then for you to really have to chart this course, to fight back,
05:41 one step at a time, one rep at a time, to get back to where, "No, I am not accepting that as the final answer," you know?
05:51 - There's a fire in your eye when you talk about that, because I think you actually like the challenge.
05:55 You don't like the situation, but the challenge.
05:57 - Here's what's amazing.
05:59 What's amazing is that at the moment that these things are happening,
06:02 everybody can point to these things in their life, you say to yourself,
06:05 "God, this is the worst thing that could ever happen," right?
06:08 Like, "Why?"
06:09 You know, and you allow yourself a little pity party for a little while, right?
06:13 Which, that's okay.
06:13 But at some point, you got to flip the switch.
06:15 You got to chart the course, right?
06:17 You got to trust the process, and you got to—you just got to go at it with everything you got.
06:23 And then it's amazing when you get past all that, right?
06:27 All the blood, sweat, tears, and then you're back, and you look back, and you say to yourself,
06:34 "That's probably the best thing that ever happened," right?
06:36 Or else I would not have gained that strength or that belief system or that faith or realized that or recognized that or appreciated that, developed that gratitude.
06:49 Whatever it might be, I think these attributes, these traits are developed as a result.
06:56 And you then have the opportunity to accomplish the level of success that you never would have been able to accomplish
07:04 had you not gone through what you went through.
07:07 Number three, embracing the suck.
07:10 Adversity.
07:11 Thank you.
07:12 Like, yes, I want it.
07:15 Like, I will embrace it.
07:16 You hear these special forces military guys saying, like, "Embrace the suck," right?
07:23 Yes, it's going to suck.
07:24 It's going to be hard.
07:25 It's designed to make you quit, right?
07:28 But at the end of the day, you have to embrace it.
07:31 You got to love it, right?
07:32 You got to psychologically trick yourself and say, "No, I love this."
07:35 You got to find the love in it.
07:36 Right, exactly, right?
07:38 And that's actually—I was told—
07:42 because towards the end of my football career, I had a lot of—
07:46 I would seek out guys to talk about, "Hey, when did you know it was the end?"
07:51 Or, "What were the feelings?
07:52 What were the emotions?
07:53 How did you go through that?"
07:54 And one of the things that was told to me—I thought this was very accurate—was,
08:00 "It's time to retire when you no longer really love the grind."
08:04 You know?
08:07 Because look, everybody loves game day, right?
08:08 Everybody loves the feeling of running out of the tunnel.
08:10 Everybody loves the feeling of throwing the game winning touchdown,
08:12 like the time in the locker room, like all that stuff.
08:14 But do you really love getting up early every day and your body really hurts
08:20 and you don't want to do what you got to go do in the weight room
08:24 or on the practice field or whatever, battle through that injury,
08:27 or going to the training room, or sit there and grind on film for hours and hours, right?
08:31 Miss out on all this time with your family.
08:32 And just—you have to find the love in that, right?
08:38 Or the satisfaction in knowing that that is what's helping you earn Sunday, right?
08:44 Like we would talk about that a lot, is why do you go through that process?
08:47 Why do you go through that grind?
08:48 You go through that grind to earn Sunday, right?
08:51 To earn that feeling of satisfaction when you go out and you can execute some perfection.
08:55 Number four, "As long as you are green, you will continue to grow."
08:59 How did you feel that day when the Chargers drafted Phillip Rivers and you're the quarterback
09:03 and now you have this guy who maybe there's a controversy created that shouldn't have been
09:09 or couldn't—didn't need to be like—how did you overcome that
09:12 to put your focus on what needed to get done and still earn Sunday that next week?
09:17 Yeah. Well, look, at the time, it was very frustrating
09:22 because at the time, I was sitting here saying to myself,
09:26 "Well, first off, I knew they were going to do it."
09:28 I came in—so I came to the Chargers in 2001.
09:32 I backed up Doug Flutie in 2001.
09:35 2002, I competed with Doug Flutie and I won the job.
09:38 So I started all the '02 season.
09:40 2003 was the year that, man, we were supposed to be—like we were an ascending team, right?
09:46 Chargers were 1-15 there before we got there.
09:49 Flutie had them 5-11.
09:51 I had them 8-8.
09:52 So like here we are. We're trending up, right?
09:54 Here we are. This is our year, 2003, when with all these expectations, man, we just—we fell flat.
09:59 And look, I was—I played bad.
10:02 I'd say a lot of people didn't really step up to the level that we needed.
10:06 And the worse that it got, the more pressure I put on myself.
10:09 And I began to really press.
10:11 And the more I pressed, the worse things got.
10:14 You start to lose confidence.
10:15 I get benched three times, right?
10:18 I'd never been benched in my life.
10:20 I get benched three times.
10:21 Man, like, man, my confidence was—
10:23 The media was killing you.
10:24 Man, media's killing me.
10:25 I got players in the locker room saying that they'd rather have Doug Flutie starting.
10:30 I mean, like, all this dysfunction, right?
10:34 So man, that was one of the toughest things I've ever had to go through within my career
10:38 because that had nothing to do with an injury or whatever.
10:41 That was, "You are not good enough," right?
10:44 And it's hard to hear that.
10:46 But you have to kind of take the same approach, which is, "All right, well, how do I rectify this?
10:52 How do I fix this?"
10:53 - Do you remember what you did?
10:55 - Like, I absolutely do.
10:56 Well, going into '03 season ends, and I remember, look, man, I had had some knockout,
11:06 drag-out, screaming matches with Marty Schottenheimer during that year
11:11 because he was the one who benched me three times.
11:13 Now, at the time, hurt my ego.
11:17 Later on, I look back and say, "Best thing that ever happened to me," right?
11:22 It's going to be a common theme here, right?
11:24 At the time, feel sorry for yourself, make excuses.
11:26 Later on, you say, "Damn right, I needed that," right?
11:32 Forced me to toughen up a little bit.
11:35 So I remember going into Marty's office, and Marty basically said, "I think that you are good enough,
11:43 and you have it in you, to be the starting quarterback for this team for a very long time,
11:48 be the leader of this team.
11:50 There are those in this organization that do not feel that way.
11:54 And so I am telling you, they are going to go out, and they are going to either sign a free agent quarterback
12:00 or they are going to go draft somebody really high."
12:02 And that '04 draft was a big quarterback draft, right?
12:05 It was Eli Manning, it was Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger.
12:09 So this is going to happen, and so this is what you have to deal with.
12:12 This is what you're up against.
12:14 You kind of have this, you know, split in this organization.
12:18 There are those that believe, and then there's those that have written you off, right?
12:22 So I knew that regardless, I'm going to have to compete.
12:27 Now, would you really want it any other way?
12:28 - No. - And once you get to a certain level,
12:31 like you are always having to compete.
12:33 You're just, you're wired that way anyway, but at the end of the day—
12:36 - Yeah, you'll manufacture who to compete with if it's not given to you.
12:39 - What you think about like this, too, is the moment—
12:44 one of my college coaches used to tell me, "As long as you are green, you will continue to grow.
12:48 As soon as you are ripe, you will soon be rotten."
12:51 In other words, you are always thinking about how you can improve.
12:53 You're a constant skill development, right?
12:56 Like, "What more can I learn?"
12:57 Right? Whether it's in the realm of exactly what I'm doing or just something
13:02 that might help me with something down the road that, you know, it's just another skill set, right?
13:06 I just want to develop another skill set that can help, right?
13:09 That, you're always thinking that they're trying to replace you.
13:13 Like, you really have to have that mindset.
13:16 If I just stay the same, right?
13:18 It's either you're getting better or you're getting worse.
13:19 You're never staying the same.
13:20 If I'm just complacent here, you know, and just thinking that I've arrived and that I'm okay
13:26 and that we're just cruising, like, that's a bad place to be.
13:30 - Number five, fighting for the inches.
13:33 - And so I just, I made the decision then that I am going to do everything I can
13:36 to create every edge possible.
13:40 I already had a pretty big chip on my shoulder.
13:42 This would create a giant chip on my shoulder.
13:44 But I'm going to look at my sleep habits.
13:46 I'm going to look at my diet.
13:47 I'm going to look at my training.
13:49 I'm going to look at my recovery.
13:50 Like, I'm going to look at everything and I'm going to try to learn different skill sets,
13:55 seek out mentors that can really help teach me, you know, these things and create a path,
14:01 create a process by which I can go out and prove to my teammates, right?
14:06 Because I kind of had to rewind their trust and their confidence.
14:13 And for the next, you know, six to eight months, that offseason, it was one of these things
14:18 where it's like, I can only worry about things I can control too, right?
14:22 I can be as upset as I want that they're going to go and use the fourth pick of the draft
14:26 to go draft a quarterback.
14:27 Now, I did come out.
14:28 I think I spouted off and I was like, "They should have drafted an all-line," right?
14:33 Or they should have drafted a…
14:34 - You were a kid.
14:35 - I said, "They should have drafted a left tackle for me," right?
14:38 I'm the starting quarterback.
14:40 But at the end of the day, I knew that, like, if I worked and I mapped out the process and
14:45 the plan and then I went out and executed it and I showed up day one, and I knew that
14:50 day one I had to do something that would let my teammates know that I believed that I was
14:58 their guy, right?
15:00 And…
15:00 - What'd you do?
15:02 - So I came in the very first meeting.
15:05 I asked Marty, I said, "Can I get 10 minutes with the team after you're done?"
15:08 He said, "Sure."
15:10 So he kind of gave his intro and then he said, "Hey, Drew wants to speak to you."
15:14 And he left the room and I passed out goal sheets.
15:20 I had top five goals for us as a team, top five goals for us as an offense, top five
15:24 personal goals.
15:25 And I put them in front of every guy.
15:26 I said, "Hey, guys, if we…"
15:29 I said, "We're going to accomplish great things this year."
15:31 I said, "But we need to have… we need to create that path for ourselves and then
15:35 we need to hold ourselves accountable for this."
15:37 So what I want all of us to do right now is I want us to put down our top five goals as
15:41 a team and then I want us to break out offense, defense.
15:43 Offense, we're going to come up with our top five goals, defense top five goals, and
15:47 then look at those individual goals and set those individual goals that are going to help
15:51 us accomplish those offensive goals, those team goals.
15:55 And we went through it and I'd already had a list of things that I felt like, you know,
16:00 should be our goals, but I wanted it to be a collaboration.
16:02 Because if guys… if it comes out of their mouth, then they got to own it, right?
16:07 And they have to become accountable to it.
16:09 So it gave other guys the opportunity to maybe just verbalize things that they otherwise
16:13 wouldn't have verbalized.
16:14 And I didn't want to leave anything up for chance.
16:16 I didn't want to leave anything up for assumption, right?
16:19 Like, "Hey, this is our team.
16:20 Like, what are we trying to accomplish?"
16:22 Right?
16:23 Goal number one, right?
16:24 Well, yeah, we're trying to win a Super Bowl.
16:25 Okay, well, in order to do that, what do we have to do?
16:27 Okay, in order to do that, what do we have to do?
16:28 In order to do that, what do we have to do?
16:29 Right?
16:30 So you just set these short-term goals in order to achieve the big one.
16:33 But I…
16:34 Nobody had ever done that before.
16:37 I'd never done that before with a team.
16:39 You know, I'd always set my own goals.
16:41 But I felt like when all of a sudden guys came together and they had to put their heads
16:45 together and then really put something on paper and then therefore commit to it, be
16:48 accountable to it, I think it said a lot.
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17:49 Number six, the way you do anything is the way you do everything.
17:54 My favorite thing when I talk to you is the level of detail you bring to the conversation
17:59 from conversations we've had about whether it's Everbol, Rebuild, any business thing we've talked about.
18:05 You bring a very specific view where you remember the small minor details,
18:10 which I'm sure honed from the NFL, but it's awesome as a leader myself
18:15 because I find myself being challenged in our conversations in a positive way.
18:20 And you force me to think much more detail-oriented.
18:24 So that's a prelude to how you bring – because you can't turn it off, right?
18:29 You are you, right?
18:31 So you see the world the way you see it, and you're used to football.
18:34 How you bring that same level of dedication, commitment, and passion
18:38 to something that doesn't necessarily have the same stakes as the NFL.
18:42 I mean, when you started with me and Everbol, we were much smaller.
18:45 Obviously, we're bigger now where things are exciting and growing.
18:48 But when I had conversations with you, I could see the passion in your eye then.
18:52 You were talking to me like we were talking about the Super Bowl,
18:54 but this was an Everbol.
18:56 We were talking about something very small in the store like how to change the menu.
18:59 I mean, something very minute.
19:01 How are you able to bring that level of detail from the NFL now into your business world
19:07 and to things that are less meaningful is not the right word, but less magnitude,
19:15 smaller magnitude?
19:17 So one of my mentors has said to me many times,
19:22 "The way you do anything is the way you do everything."
19:24 I love that line.
19:25 So I've always taken that to heart with everything.
19:30 And look, when you're wired a certain way, that is just the way you do it.
19:35 I still carry a spiral notebook with me wherever I go,
19:41 and I am an old traditional note-taker.
19:44 I'm a pencil and paper note-taker.
19:47 And I have this process of taking the notes because I was always taught that you are going to remember
19:54 50% more of what you write down versus just what you hear,
19:59 and then I will go back and study it.
20:01 And in many cases, I will take that, and I will have a conversation with my wife where I actually teach,
20:07 or we're sitting at the dinner table and strike up a conversation with the kids
20:11 and then teach what I wrote down from that day, what I studied, what I researched,
20:17 the conversation that I had, an enlightening moment.
20:20 And I think there's this formula that you remember 10% of what you hear, 50% of what you write down,
20:27 90% of what you teach.
20:28 So this idea that, man, if I want something to be sticky, if I want it to be, then this is the approach I have to take.
20:34 So going back from when I was a kid, taking notes to college to pros, and even now in the business world,
20:41 that's just a habit.
20:43 It's a habit that I feel like has been effective for me, and it really helps me retain.
20:50 But again, it's also something that really invigorates me.
20:56 It helps me keep that attention to detail.
21:00 And honestly, when I think about every situation, and I'll start with the realm of sports,
21:09 but in high school, my high school had never won a state championship.
21:12 So we were embarking on doing something that had never been done before, and we did.
21:16 We accomplished it.
21:17 I go to Purdue University, and we were bottom of the barrel.
21:20 Last place in the Big Ten in football, ranked dead last recruiting class, and we all looked at each other and said,
21:27 "By the time we leave here, we're going to be Big Ten champions."
21:29 Guess what?
21:30 By the time we left, we were Big Ten champions.
21:32 You arrive in the NFL, and it's like, "Okay, well, what's the pinnacle of this?
21:36 Well, it's to go win a Super Bowl."
21:37 And here's New Orleans, right?
21:39 Post-Katrina, 90% of the city underwater.
21:42 People have been displaced, complete devastation.
21:46 The team's been displaced.
21:47 All of a sudden, you're coming back, and you're having to rebuild, and you're going to go,
21:50 and you're going to accomplish something that's never been done before, and you do it.
21:53 So at the end of the day, that's what I set out to do.
21:58 I want to be involved with great people.
22:00 I want to be involved with great organizations and great brands that have the opportunity to be the best in class,
22:06 to build a great reputation, and to go do something that's never been done before.
22:11 And that takes attention to detail.
22:14 But it's also what brings a ton of excitement, right?
22:18 Is that every day is like, "What are we going to learn today?
22:22 What journey are we embarking on today?
22:24 What goal are we going to set or go tackle today?"
22:28 And with that end goal and envision in mind, and it's not a matter of if, it's when.
22:32 Number seven, seek to experience.
22:35 If you could talk to yourself 10 years ago, 20 years ago, knowing what you know now,
22:41 is there something that you would change?
22:44 And I know not the lessons or the failures,
22:46 but is there something you would change with who you became in the business world?
22:50 That if you can go back, you would say, "Hey, you know what?
22:53 This is what I've learned over the last, we'll say, two, three years."
22:56 That you realize, "Hey, maybe it was a little bit something you need to be humble about,
22:59 something you needed to change as Drew."
23:02 Because opportunities get thrown at you.
23:05 You're obviously Drew Brees.
23:07 You're at a high level of track record, and people want your brand.
23:10 They want you. They want your brain. They want your relationships.
23:13 So maybe there isn't something like a minute detail,
23:16 but is there one thing that if you can go back 10 years, you would have changed
23:21 that would have altered the whole business side of you now?
23:25 Well, I'd say this.
23:28 I mean, I was, so I'm 44 years old. I've been retired for two years.
23:32 So look at my, if you look at those first 42 years,
23:38 28 of those were dedicated to being the best football player I could possibly be.
23:42 Like if you go four years of high school, four years of college, 20 years in the NFL.
23:45 So two-thirds of my life was where my full-time job was,
23:51 each and every day I'm waking up, and it's like, "What am I doing to train?
23:53 What am I doing to recover? What am I doing to help a teammate?
23:56 What am I doing to get better myself? What am I doing?"
23:59 And then obviously I've got my family, and I've got some of the other business stuff
24:02 I'm trying to build, but at the end of the day, like that was--
24:05 I was trying to master being the very best quarterback that I could be.
24:10 So even though I learned so much from that that can be applied to the business world,
24:16 I still--when I retired, I felt like, "Man, I'm behind. Man, I've got to catch up."
24:21 I mean, really, like there's that feeling.
24:26 Had I not had a football career, and I was kind of starting from scratch,
24:31 fresh out of college or wherever, and I'm sitting there like,
24:35 "Man, I want to learn about business. I want to--first off, find mentors.
24:41 Find mentors and just glean everything you can from them."
24:46 The other thing is seek to experience every job that you could possibly have
24:55 within the framework of a business, right?
24:59 Even the stuff that just totally sucks, right?
25:02 Or that is just like--you know, you--what are these shows that you're watching
25:06 that are like worst jobs ever, right?
25:09 Dirty jobs?
25:10 Yeah, exactly.
25:11 Like do--because even though that's not necessarily the job that you're planning
25:17 to do for the rest of your life, it is a job that will teach you a skill set
25:23 or a component within a department, right?
25:26 Something that is going to be valuable for you when all added up,
25:32 it's going to equal the position that you really want, right?
25:35 Or that title that you really want or that accomplishment or like that--building
25:39 that brand or that company or whatever it is.
25:42 So it's just--again, it's a bit of this growth mindset,
25:45 but it's understanding that, yes, here's the end game, right?
25:49 But then here are all the little pieces, all the little skill sets,
25:52 all the little things.
25:53 And again, I go back to this traits and attributes.
25:56 Like I need to develop these traits, these attributes, these skill sets, right?
26:00 And so how do I do that?
26:01 Well, if I do this job for a while, that's going to help me gain that, right?
26:04 And I need to be in accounting, right?
26:07 Like I need that background, right?
26:09 I need--man, I need that marketing, right?
26:11 I need--like just add them all up, and that's going to equate to the skill set
26:16 of this person that I'm striving to be.
26:18 Yep, karate kid.
26:20 That's right.
26:21 Keep doing it.
26:23 Thank you so much for listening to another segment of Lessons Learned.
26:26 I hope you learned as much as I did from our special guest, Drew Brees.
26:30 Thank you all for tuning in.
26:32 I want to give a huge shout-out to our amazing sponsor, Entrepreneur,
26:36 for partnering with us to help get this show to as many people as possible.
26:41 Go check out our article on the episode at entrepreneur.com
26:44 or by clicking the link in the show notes below.
26:47 See you on the next one.
26:48 [music]
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