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00:00 But when American athletes are on the world stage, that used to, well, it used to unite
00:05 Americans, something that everyone would start cheering for.
00:08 But after the US women's soccer team fell in the World Cup over the weekend, well, many
00:12 Americans are instead cheering their loss.
00:17 I'm thrilled they lost.
00:20 Good.
00:21 I'm glad you went down.
00:23 You don't support America.
00:24 I don't support you.
00:28 The trail doesn't stop there, by the way.
00:30 Some posts called them entitled, ungrateful, woke pieces of trash.
00:37 Others ripped Megan Rapinoe.
00:39 Other criticized their actions during the national anthem.
00:42 Donald Trump jumped on the hate train as well, blaming Joe Biden and saying that the country
00:47 is going to hell.
00:49 I want to bring in Rachel Nichols, host of Headlines with Rachel Nichols on Showtime,
00:52 along with CNN political commentator, S.E.
00:54 Kopp, let me begin with you, Rachel, because there's been lots of vitriol from conservatives
01:00 around this loss and many people who would be normally the ones talking about America
01:04 first.
01:05 Why do you think this is the reaction towards this team in particular?
01:09 I think it's kind of two separate buckets here, right?
01:11 So I understand the human nature of if there's someone you don't like, if there's someone
01:17 who has angered you or offended you, or you just don't care for them and they stumble
01:21 in some way, having a little satisfaction over that.
01:24 Let's be honest, people do that in their daily lives.
01:27 Politically, people on the left do that too.
01:29 That is not just the province of the right in this country.
01:32 But that's very different than what we heard in some of these other comments, which were
01:37 they lost because they were woke.
01:39 They lost because of their political beliefs.
01:42 And that's where I just sort of get to make it make sense, because it's the implication
01:48 that Megan Rapinoe had a penalty kick, sail a few inches over the goalpost because she
01:54 was, I don't know, I'm trying to figure it out.
01:55 Was she distracted by the fact that four years ago she didn't visit Donald Trump in the White
02:01 House?
02:02 I mean, what are we saying?
02:03 How does being woke in the way that the criticism is mean that they were losing a soccer game,
02:10 a very competitive soccer game against one of the best teams in the world?
02:14 And the idea of accusing them of being woke or pieces of trash or ungrateful is strange
02:19 to me in and of itself, only in that the number one issue, the biggest issue for this women's
02:24 soccer team over and over again is they wanted equal pay for equal work.
02:28 They in fact found it particularly egregious that they were much more successful than the
02:31 men's team and still were not getting paid as well as them.
02:35 So if that's the chief thing that they have represented over and over again, and that's
02:39 the problem that some of these politicians have with them, what are they saying to the
02:43 women in their own party?
02:45 I just don't understand it.
02:46 Again, make it make sense.
02:47 Well, Essie, I heard you clear your throat.
02:49 I know you want to interject.
02:51 Go for it.
02:52 Well, I mean, Rachel's right on the main and Schadenfreude is ugly on anyone.
03:00 But the, the opposition to Megan Rapinoe and the women's soccer team is not over their
03:10 demands for parity and equal pay.
03:12 And that is not why Megan Rapinoe kneels during the anthem.
03:15 She was real clear about why she does that.
03:18 She does that in protest of American civil rights abuses along with Colin Kaepernick.
03:25 She says she stands with him or rather kneels with him.
03:29 And she says she does that for people of color and for her LGBTQ community.
03:35 Now agree with that or disagree with that.
03:39 When you become an activist, that, you know, comes with consequences.
03:45 And it's, it's sometimes that people won't like you.
03:47 It's sometimes that you'll lose money or contracts.
03:50 Just look at Colin Kaepernick.
03:52 So the un-American thing kind of cuts both ways.
03:56 You could see it as un-American to root for a team to lose.
03:59 And I certainly hope all of our American teams win overseas.
04:03 But I think there was a perception that it was pretty un-American in a foreign country
04:08 to kneel during our anthem.
04:10 And you know, I can understand that side of it too.
04:14 Putting the politics completely aside, just the action, I understand that bothered some
04:19 people and listen, I've, I've interviewed dozens of athletes who have taken activist
04:25 stands on all kinds of issues and they will all tell you it is a risk.
04:30 It's one they all made and they were happy to make.
04:33 And it comes with some great benefits to your community.
04:36 And you know, you get your message out there, but it comes with risk that, you know, people
04:41 will not like your message.
04:43 And you know, there's, those are consequences.
04:46 Rachel, what's your reaction to that?
04:48 Obviously there are consequences, there are risks to it.
04:50 And I wonder what it looks like on the world stage.
04:52 Yeah, no, I totally agree with that completely.
04:56 It's just the connection to they lost because of their political beliefs.
05:00 That's what we've seen a lot of politicians saying today.
05:02 And that's the part I don't understand.
05:04 It just doesn't make sense to me.
05:05 I cover sports for a living.
05:07 I've never seen anyone lose an athletic contest because of their political beliefs.
05:11 So I understand the urge to get your base worked up.
05:14 I understand the idea of I don't like you and I'm glad you lost.
05:18 And I definitely understand what SC is saying about, hey, if you get into that arena, be
05:22 prepared to deal with people booing you in the arena.
05:25 I don't understand that like last part of the equation that we've seen frankly over
05:29 and over and over again today, because that's just not how sports works.
05:34 Why is there that, why is this have legs, Essie?
05:36 Why is that the talking point, even though it's illogical?
05:39 Well, it's lazy and listen, lazy works, right?
05:43 Especially when it comes to political messaging, right?
05:45 You got, you make it simple.
05:46 And so Rachel's totally right.
05:48 There's a weird non-connection between losing and being woke, but there is this overarching
05:54 theme in modern conservatism that your wokeness makes you weak.
06:00 Wokeness is making our military weak.
06:02 This is making everyone weak.
06:05 There's this like anti-feminist, you know, treatise now in modern conservative circles
06:10 about hyper masculinity and making men masculine again.
06:15 So it's an undercurrent that is part of the political conversation and right wing circles.
06:22 So I'm not surprised to hear it, but sure, surely when you try to parse it apart and
06:27 make sense of it, there's really, it's a very tenuous connection.
06:32 Well Rachel Nichols, Essie Cupp, thank you for both trying to make this make sense.
06:36 I appreciate it so much, everyone.