Patriots grab bag topics from Germany | Pats Interference
The Patriots have landed in Germany, and so has Pats Interference! From Frankfurt, Andrew, the Boston Herald’s Doug Kyed and NESN’s Zack Cox break down Sunday’s game, while offering early Frankfurt observations, thoughts on JC Jackson and lots more.
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Transcript
00:00 When I looked at that spread and I look at the run of play that Washington had, the Patriots
00:03 were favored by 2.5 to that game.
00:06 And I look at this where they were favored to start the week around Sunday and then it
00:09 flipped to the Colts minus one and now it's minus 2.5.
00:12 I think the Colts cover easily.
00:14 I think this is 24 to 13 Indianapolis and it's partly the matchup last year, which was
00:19 just a slog.
00:20 We had more talent on offense.
00:22 It's just hard man right now for them to live on offense and stay on schedule, which is
00:26 the whole game because they just don't have any explosive plays and it's going to be hard
00:29 to get them on Sunday.
00:30 Patsy DeFerence is brought to you by FanDuel, the exclusive wagering partner of the CLNS
00:35 Media Network.
00:36 All right.
00:37 Coming to you live with the most unprepared off the cuff episode of Patsy DeFerence brought
00:43 to you by FanDuel, the exclusive wagering partner of the CLNS Media Network ever.
00:47 From an undisclosed location in Frankfort, Doug Cotter, the Herald, Zach Cox, and Nessim,
00:51 welcome back.
00:52 Thank you.
00:53 I think one of the last times we did this, we were poolside down at Boca.
00:56 We were.
00:57 We did our first opener in 2022.
01:00 Better or worse than random hotel room in Frankfort, Germany?
01:03 I mean, we'll have to see.
01:04 We did have some, a couple of two tree high noons during that episode.
01:07 We didn't have any of those.
01:09 We just got, I think this is coffee number four for me.
01:11 So we're trying to stay awake through this episode.
01:14 I think that's the number one goal.
01:15 This is bad German McDonald's with a crappy paper straw.
01:19 So when I say most off the cuff possible, we've already explained that because we are
01:23 coming off of basically a red eye.
01:25 The Patriots have recently landed.
01:27 They have a practice later this afternoon.
01:28 Locally, it just passed 10, 11 o'clock, 11 o'clock.
01:32 So it is five o'clock Eastern time.
01:35 We are, we don't have a rundown today.
01:37 We don't have much energy or focus, but what we have is the ice bucket from this hotel
01:42 room as Patriots get ready to play the Colts, obviously on Sunday and six topics, two of
01:46 which will cover the game Patriots offense versus Colts defense and vice versa, as well
01:51 as stuff that's going on during the week.
01:53 Early Frankfort observations.
01:54 We took a walk this morning after getting in at about six or then seven.
01:59 My dad is here wandering around somewhere.
02:01 I don't think he's going to make an appearance, but you never know with him because he lost
02:04 his phone immediately upon arriving in Frankfort.
02:07 So I'm excited to get started.
02:10 Do you want to draw the first one?
02:11 Sure.
02:12 I have no idea what any of these topics are.
02:14 All right.
02:15 Topic number one, Pat's Colts offense.
02:19 Okay.
02:20 Simple enough.
02:21 Is that Pat's offense?
02:22 Yeah, it's Pat's offense.
02:23 I'm going to have to spell this out because this is how low tech we're getting here today.
02:26 Well, let's start off Bill Belichick while talking about the Colts.
02:31 Colts said they've got the big three on defense and none of us can figure out who the big
02:35 three are.
02:37 I think there's a pretty good idea that one of them is Darius Leonard.
02:41 Yeah.
02:42 DeForest Fletcher has to be in there.
02:45 Definitely one of them.
02:46 And the third one is Sarah Franklin, Kenny Moore, Julie Blackman.
02:51 We don't know who the third big three member is.
02:53 There was so much going on Wednesday after that press conference.
02:57 Oh, JC Jackson's not going to travel.
02:59 Adrian Clem is missing because he's got a health issue.
03:02 All these different things practiced and then they're traveling tomorrow.
03:05 We totally missed the big three part of that.
03:09 There's no big three there.
03:10 How did we go from Garnett, Pierce, and Allen, which I know 80s Celtics fans, that's not
03:14 the original big three, to Kenny Moore being a part of any three described as big.
03:19 Maybe we don't know.
03:20 Yeah, maybe we don't.
03:21 Well, the other, the biggest person missing from the Patriots offense is Trent Brown,
03:25 who is out.
03:26 Devontae Parker out here again.
03:28 So they're basically running back the offense that we saw last week against the Commanders,
03:32 which granted was not great.
03:34 17 points wasn't, you scored off a fumble.
03:37 And then a long reminder, Stevenson run.
03:41 What can be better against the Colts on Sunday?
03:45 I mean, almost everything.
03:47 It's good.
03:48 I mean, Andre Stevenson had the long run, but almost everything else on offense was
03:52 three and outs or four, you know, maybe one first down scattered in there.
03:58 It just can't be as fluky as it was against the commanders.
04:01 And that's really the way that would describe how the Patriots offense was functioning in
04:04 that game is that they could only actually muster points in those fluky situations of
04:09 getting the ball off of the commander's fumble or that long reminder Stevenson run.
04:13 I actually don't think that the offensive line looked that bad in that game against
04:17 the commanders, despite the fact that Trent Brown was out and the Conor McDermott was
04:20 playing left tackle.
04:21 So you have to hope that the offensive line holds up as well against the Colts as they
04:24 did against the commanders.
04:27 But I don't know.
04:28 I mean, if I'm being blatantly honest, this offense just does not have any firepower and
04:35 they need fluke situations to score right now.
04:38 And the receiving core is one bad, probably the worst in the NFL right now without Kendrick
04:43 Bourne and two just so top heavy.
04:45 It's basically Demario Douglas and that's it at this point.
04:50 And I mean, I know all of us are fans of Demario Douglas.
04:53 We think he's a valuable player for this team has a bright future.
04:57 He's not at the point in his career where he can carry a passing attack.
05:00 Even the last couple of weeks, he's been the focal point of the Patriots passing game and
05:04 he's only had around 50 yards.
05:06 It would have been a little bit more if he was able to pull down that 22 yarder.
05:10 I think it was late in that game.
05:11 But Juju Smith Schuster was essentially a non-factor till that final drive.
05:15 Then he obviously had the drop that led to the interception.
05:18 Jalen Rager, Tyquan Thornton, 10 targets, two catches, I think, what, 18, 19 yards.
05:24 Who knows if Thornton's even going to play in this game.
05:26 He got benched pretty early in the last one.
05:29 Maybe you see Keyshawn Booty.
05:30 I'll believe it when I see it.
05:32 TJ Luther, maybe?
05:33 TJ Luther, Malik Cunningham, who knows?
05:34 I mean, they just, they're not getting anything at all from their receiving core.
05:40 Mike Gosicki as well, Bill Belichick two weeks ago said, "Oh, he's our fifth receiver."
05:44 He had one target, zero catches in that game last week.
05:48 They just don't have any firepower in the passing game.
05:51 Obviously Matt Jones hasn't been perfect.
05:53 He's had some missed opportunities on the few plays where guys have gotten open, but
05:58 the windows are so tight.
06:00 They've got drops everywhere.
06:01 It's just, there's very little talent in this passing game.
06:05 And even if they can protect Matt Jones, like as you said, Doug, they did a much better
06:09 job of last week.
06:11 Who's going to be there to catch the ball?
06:13 It's kind of a, "I'll believe it when I see it" sort of situation with this offense.
06:16 So two things for me, one of which is the Colts run defense is still below average.
06:19 It's 19th according to PFF, 23rd according to DVOA.
06:22 You should have opportunities, especially going off the right side where Mike Gunwinew
06:25 is still going to be a right tackle.
06:27 Siddy Sowell had a clean sheet against the Commanders.
06:29 Sowell's been good.
06:30 Settling into his role finally.
06:32 The second thing is I'm very curious about how the Colts handle them from a coverage
06:35 standpoint because we all know Gus Bradley is like the last flag bearer in the parade
06:39 for cover three.
06:40 And the Patriots carved up cover three for years.
06:42 But when they came into Foxborough last year, it was a similar offensive performance where
06:46 they only scored in a short field.
06:48 It was field goal, field goal, field goal, defensive touchdown, I think.
06:50 Mack had like 150 passing yards in that game, probably less.
06:53 Not great.
06:54 It might have been like 120, really low.
06:55 And they're going to look and go, "We can play Matt or do whatever we want here."
06:59 So I'm curious how much the Colts deviate from like, "We are blitzing the least in the
07:03 league.
07:04 We play a ton of zone coverage.
07:05 What can we do to, you know, we can just man up."
07:07 Because that's what the commander said.
07:08 Over 50% of Mack's drop backs.
07:10 And that'll be a test early on where do the Patriots have better answers versus man.
07:13 Are the Colts even going to do that?
07:14 Because they might just say, "Hey, we're fine."
07:16 They also defend as we get close in on five minutes here, which is all we're going to
07:19 have for the six topics and then go to practice.
07:22 The second best defense by DBOA against running backs.
07:25 So Stevenson in the passing game is not going to be a factor.
07:27 Right.
07:28 Yeah.
07:29 And he hasn't been a major factor this year in general in the passing game.
07:31 He's had some plays.
07:32 He's gotten the volume.
07:33 Yeah, he's not that go-to guy that they have had on those successful teams in the past
07:37 on those third down kind of situations.
07:38 There it is.
07:39 Perfect timing.
07:40 It's very jaunty.
07:41 That timer, I like it.
07:42 It is.
07:43 I also searched for, before we started, German sounds and found a German soundboard, which
07:50 was just very unpleasant.
07:51 It was a little too aggressive.
07:52 Yeah.
07:53 So this is a great sound.
07:54 We'll be hearing it more as we keep going on.
07:56 Doug, topic number two.
07:58 I just saw Andrew's passcode.
07:59 It's very complex.
08:00 Frankfurt observations.
08:01 Okay, let's start here.
08:04 Going with Frankfurt observations as the second.
08:08 So I feel like your dad's kind of been giving us a history lesson.
08:11 And I wasn't aware that Frankfurt was basically just like completely demolished in World War
08:17 II and that very little history actually still exists in Frankfurt, which if you're going
08:22 to a European city, you kind of want to see history.
08:24 But there is one big tower that's been around since like the 1400s, which is pretty cool
08:29 to see.
08:30 I don't know.
08:31 I had fun walking around this morning.
08:32 But yeah, I think your dad described it as a boring city, also.
08:36 Which, I don't know.
08:37 Frankfurt seemed cool.
08:38 We ate some good food.
08:39 It's a little early for this, but because the next time I'll be starting up a new episode,
08:46 it'll be after we'll do some film notes and I'll have more Frankfurt observations, Sports
08:49 Illustrated as a media party that we'll go to and maybe take some pictures and post later.
08:54 But the thing that struck me as we walked around, and it's on the Main River, and it
08:59 was very quiet, like 9 a.m., 10 a.m.
09:03 Shops are still closed.
09:04 It was like a siesta, dropped in the middle of the morning.
09:07 People are just like, "We took the day off."
09:09 But there's also like a very real NFL presence.
09:11 Like you saw when we got off the plane, different signs you see in the train stations.
09:15 We see these giant helmets that are in like the center square.
09:18 I like the city from what I've seen, but it's like very sleepy so far.
09:21 It is sleepy.
09:22 Obviously, small sample size.
09:23 We've only been here for a couple of hours.
09:24 Small sample size, yeah.
09:25 But it was like during a time when people should be going to work.
09:26 Yeah.
09:27 It seems like no one was going to work.
09:29 It kind of struck me as like if you're in like the financial district in Boston at like
09:33 9 a.m. on a Sunday.
09:34 Right.
09:35 There's like nobody really around.
09:36 But it was a weekday.
09:37 It was a little surprising that we didn't see more kind of bustling activity.
09:40 It does seem like they're excited for this game, though.
09:42 Coming on the train here from the airport, obviously, you have all the NFL experience
09:47 stuff downtown, but I passed four or five billboards that weren't directly associated
09:52 with the NFL, but they had a bunch of German words and people playing football on it.
09:56 So it definitely seems like there is a passionate football fan base here.
10:01 I know the Frankfurt Galaxy, when they were around, they were a big deal out here.
10:05 I'm pretty sure they played in the stadium that the Patriots are going to be playing
10:08 in this weekend back when NFL Europe was alive and kicking.
10:12 But I got a sausage within a pretzel with cheese on it for like $2.50 this morning.
10:17 So that was basically a sausage, egg and cheese, as I said, but it looked nothing like that.
10:22 It's like orange in the middle.
10:23 It essentially looked like a hot dog in a pretzel.
10:25 It was covered in melted cheese and it was great.
10:28 It was very good.
10:29 It was a nice breakfast this morning.
10:30 Had a couple of coffees, as I mentioned.
10:31 People have been lovely.
10:32 I don't mean to dump on paper.
10:34 My dad's calling it boring.
10:35 I'm saying it's sleepy.
10:36 We just haven't seen a whole lot yet, but I'm interested, too, that you can walk from
10:40 downtown into a very deep forest within an hour.
10:44 Like this is a city that still has some old touches to it, but it's being rebuilt in
10:49 the center.
10:50 They're literally constructing skyscrapers a block or two over as part of their downtown.
10:54 And apparently, too, the stadium is in the middle of the woods.
10:57 I think the original name for it, I can't remember it, but it was the German word for
11:03 stadium in the woods.
11:04 So we had a media meeting with some NFL folks the other day and they're like, "Just so you
11:09 know, this stadium is literally in the middle of the woods."
11:12 Don't take a wrong turn.
11:13 You might be in wrong turn, the sequel.
11:14 Essentially.
11:15 They were like, "If you take an Uber, make sure you know where you're going because,
11:18 yes, you're driving into the woods to get to the stadium."
11:20 So I'm kind of interested to see what that looks like.
11:22 When you landed on the flight, Zach, we were all on the same flight, were you handed a
11:26 croissant with a bunch of slices of Swiss cheese?
11:29 I did.
11:30 The Swiss cheese was not very melted.
11:31 It was cold.
11:32 I think there was some cottage cheese in there too.
11:35 There was some creamy cheese in there as well, but I was just thrown off.
11:38 This was like four slices of cold Swiss cheese-
11:42 In a croissant.
11:43 In a croissant.
11:44 And I was like, "I don't know what to do with this."
11:47 Our time was midnight and local time was 6 AM.
11:50 But yeah, it's another Frankfurt observation.
11:53 Apple wine is another thing I want to shout out, which is special here that we haven't
11:57 tried yet.
11:58 But it is like a native.
11:59 You go, you have your brats, you have your beers, as Dan Roach put it to Mack Jones on
12:03 Wednesday, "76 brats in 10 minutes."
12:05 That was Dan's question.
12:06 I feel like, unfortunately, Dakota Randall is not on this trip with us.
12:11 I feel like he would give that challenge a try.
12:13 He would say, "76 brats in 10 minutes?"
12:14 Oh my God.
12:15 Yeah, let's go.
12:16 Let's do it.
12:17 How many brats could you guys eat in 10 minutes?
12:18 Like five or six.
12:21 I feel like I could eat them quickly and then I would just be like, "I don't want to eat
12:25 any more brats."
12:26 Brats are kind of-
12:27 Brats are heavy.
12:28 Brats are heavy.
12:29 Like a hot dog, I think I could eat five or six.
12:31 A brat, I'm like four maybe.
12:32 I don't know.
12:33 Also, is it with buns or without buns?
12:35 It has to be on their own.
12:37 I feel like-
12:38 Do you eat brats with buns?
12:39 Brats can stand alone in a way the hot dog cannot.
12:41 That is true.
12:42 It's more versatile.
12:43 Oh, 100%.
12:44 The hot dog is very dependent.
12:45 I don't know.
12:46 I don't have a lot of confidence.
12:47 I don't know.
12:48 There was also a sign we passed and I don't know German, but there was like, I'm almost
12:53 positive it said, "Do not put ketchup on your brats."
12:56 I would never.
12:57 That sounds bad.
12:58 Yeah.
12:59 Okay.
13:00 It's disrespectful to the local cuisine.
13:01 Next topic.
13:02 All right.
13:03 Next topic.
13:04 Mid-season awards.
13:05 MVP, offensive, defensive, most improved.
13:06 For the folks who don't know, whenever we publish an article, thanks to this lovely
13:17 program called Parsley that a lot of different journalists and analysts use, we can track
13:21 how many people read a certain story, how long they're on a story, how they got to the
13:25 story, where they go next.
13:26 I published a column that was like, "Let's throw some positivity out there.
13:31 Mid-season awards for the Patriots, all the things Zach just mentioned."
13:34 It is one of the least read stories I've published in my entire tenure at the Herald.
13:38 Not a lot of a market for positivity.
13:40 I know.
13:41 I said, "What better topic to talk about on the podcast that no one wants to read about
13:44 or listen about?"
13:45 But we're at the midway point.
13:47 We've talked a lot about why the season has gone to shit.
13:51 I think it's worth just noting that some players deserve a little bit of shine and shout.
13:58 You're not all the way in.
13:59 I'm sure they do.
14:00 I'm just trying to think in my head of who would be the MVP.
14:05 I'm just stuck right now.
14:06 I'll lead off because I made these selections.
14:07 I think you're about to or you're going to or you mentioned in the car ride on our way
14:12 to JFK.
14:14 My MVP is injured because most of the Patriots' best players are injured.
14:17 I think all of their MVP candidates are injured.
14:20 Yes.
14:21 For this award.
14:22 Yes.
14:23 Well, their MVP...
14:24 I'll let you pick yours first, but the two that I would consider are both injured.
14:29 I went with Kendrick Bourne because I think this passing offense is nowhere without him.
14:34 He's a guy who was tracking for career highs.
14:37 He's a vital piece of the locker room and the energy that they have not been able to
14:40 replace since then, also played his best against the best teams that they faced, scored two
14:45 touchdowns against the Eagles, scored against Miami, scored against the Bills.
14:49 And as Max said, after week one, he's my go-to guy.
14:52 So as Parker falls off after what was a great summer for him, Juju is nowhere to be seen
14:57 until last week.
14:58 And tomorrow, Douglas is in and out.
15:00 That guy was a steady part of an offense for sure.
15:03 Maybe he tops out as the number two, but you needed a steady option in a way that we've
15:08 never seen from the Patriots.
15:09 And Kendrick Bourne gave him that.
15:10 I'm going to go with Jabril Peppers.
15:14 Just because he's been a playmaker on defense, he's not currently injured, which I feel like
15:19 helps and obviously you can give it to an injured player.
15:23 And there's probably players who were injured even earlier in the season who you could make
15:26 a case for, but he's just been such a playmaker.
15:30 He's been part of basically all of the Patriots' best, most positive plays this season.
15:38 He has kind of a commanding presence on defense.
15:40 I think he's a vocal leader on defense.
15:43 And I mean, he's probably been their best overall defensive player.
15:47 And the defense has been so much better than the offense.
15:49 I feel like it's kind of fair to give it to a defensive player.
15:52 So I go with Peppers.
15:54 He's probably been the Patriots' best player so far this year.
15:57 Yeah, the two that came to mind instantly were Bourne and Christian Gonzalez.
16:02 Even though he only played four games, basically three games, two games and a handful of snaps
16:07 in the fourth game before he got hurt.
16:09 Just with the trajectory that he was tracking at, he was going to be in the defensive rookie
16:14 of the year conversation if he continued to stay on the track that he was.
16:18 Obviously very small sample size for him because he only lasted about a quarter of the season.
16:23 But Peppers is a good call as well.
16:25 I would say if we're going most improved and best defensive player, I think I'd give both
16:29 of those to Jabril Peppers.
16:31 He's been one of the few players on this team where you can have kind of no caveats say,
16:38 "Yeah, he's had a very good year."
16:40 Everybody else, even with Kendrick Bourne, you can say, "Yeah, he had a couple of games
16:43 where he was just basically invisible."
16:45 I think Peppers, from floor to ceiling across the board, from a leadership standpoint, from
16:50 an on-field standpoint, from just the level of how much larger of a role that he's taken
16:55 on, I think that I'm swaying myself.
16:59 I think I'm going to join Doug on the Jabril Peppers island there and say he's the MVP.
17:02 He was my defensive player of the year.
17:04 Offensive player, I went with Trent Brown, who's just playing, I think, the best that
17:07 we've ever seen from him, including some flashes of 2018.
17:10 Most improved for me because Peppers could also fill in there.
17:15 I went with Jelani Tavai, who's the only player on this team with a forced fumble, a sack,
17:20 and an interception.
17:21 A dude who's playing off the ball and outside.
17:23 I described him as a glue guy last week in a longer story after chatting with him for
17:27 like 20 minutes in the locker room.
17:28 Then he goes and forces a fumble that leads to a real touchdown against Washington.
17:33 He's getting it done in a way that two years ago, he was just a punchline.
17:37 He had this Patricia stench to him when he arrived from Detroit.
17:40 Everyone hated him.
17:41 He gets extended last year.
17:42 I'm like, "It's not a big deal.
17:43 It takes up 2% of the cap."
17:44 Now he's rewarding that with value that you really need on a defense where guys are not
17:49 giving you value anywhere, partly because they're ...
17:51 I would say he was sneaky good last year, too.
17:54 Not as good, not to the level that he is at now.
17:57 He wasn't making the kind of impact plays that he is.
18:00 I remember looking at PFF in week 14 or 15.
18:03 I was like, "July Tavis, the 14th highest graded linebacker?"
18:06 I was like, "Yeah, that kind of makes sense."
18:08 Just real quick, I'll give Christian Barmore, Defensive Player of the Year, Kevin Bourne,
18:12 Offensive, the most improved to Tavis.
18:15 Barmore has been awesome.
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19:10 Yeah.
19:11 All right, next up.
19:14 I picked out two.
19:17 Wild card.
19:19 Okay, so the end of every preview episode goes three, two, one, three matchups, or three
19:25 keys, two matchups, one wild card.
19:27 It has to be a non-game specific thought, which I'm glad you drew this, because I feel
19:32 like you have a lot ready to go in Holstern every day you wake up.
19:35 I do, but I have to think about this.
19:37 You go first.
19:38 You go first.
19:39 Okay.
19:40 I'm trying to think.
19:41 Wild card thought.
19:44 It's interesting to see the vibe of the locker room coming to Germany, where you'll typically
19:50 get one answer when teams are traveling to a different place, or you're going somewhere
19:53 far, or you're coming back.
19:54 It's a business trip, okay?
19:56 I think this is a trip where you can kind of throw that out the window.
20:00 You are what you are.
20:01 You know what you need to do.
20:02 You're familiar with this team.
20:04 Go and enjoy Frankfurt.
20:05 And it's not a priority.
20:06 They need to go win.
20:08 Don't get me wrong.
20:09 But I think there's a balance to be struck, where the Dolphins spent a whole week here.
20:12 It was like, when are these players going to be back in Germany?
20:15 And I think we've seen and heard a little bit of that from players, but not enough in
20:21 a way that suggests where, like, they're not making those decisions.
20:25 But I wonder if that lack of excitement is as much, "Hey, we're two and seven," or just
20:30 kind of an apathy about this season, because we're not getting it's a business trip in
20:35 the way that I thought we would.
20:36 And yet it's still like, "Yeah, I guess we'll go and see because we have to."
20:39 You know what I mean?
20:41 Yeah, I don't think that any of the players seemed overly excited about this.
20:44 I'm going to say that my wildcard is that I feel like everyone's travel schedule for
20:48 this trip was insane.
20:49 And that's ours and the Patriots also.
20:53 We all left at like four or five Eastern time on Thursday and got in at midnight Eastern
21:01 time, which was 6am German time.
21:06 And then we're just supposed to be up for the next day, even though it's midnight for
21:10 us.
21:11 And that goes for the players, too.
21:12 They are practicing at, what, 2pm German time, which is 8am Eastern time, which means that
21:21 I don't think that they slept when they got in.
21:24 Their answer was all, "How are you going to deal with the jet lag?"
21:26 Which is not a hard question.
21:27 But it's not just jet lag.
21:28 It's like two hours of sleep on a plane.
21:31 That's not what jet lag is.
21:32 Jet lag is flying across the country, getting sleep, but then still feeling off based on
21:36 the time change.
21:37 Like, this is not just jet lag.
21:39 This is severe sleep deprivation that they're probably getting as well.
21:42 It's crazy that the NFL asks teams to do this.
21:45 I guess that is my take.
21:47 I think every Europe game should have a Thursday game the week before and a bye week the week
21:53 after.
21:55 It's insane that you fly.
21:57 If you do the schedule that the Dolphins did, you stay here for a couple days and you kind
22:01 of get in the mix.
22:02 Obviously, they ended up losing last week, so it didn't really matter for them.
22:05 But the fact that you're expected to play a professional football game, which is already
22:10 one of the most difficult things a human body can do, and do that basically when your body
22:15 thinks that it's nine o'clock in the morning and you haven't slept well in the last couple
22:19 of days and your whole internal clock is all thrown off.
22:23 I understand why they do it.
22:25 It's great to grow the game.
22:26 It's great for fans.
22:27 More are going to come.
22:28 More are going to come.
22:29 Everybody loves watching football at nine o'clock in the morning.
22:32 But from a, I don't know, I think player safety might be a little too strong, but just from
22:37 a player welfare, it's insane that you have to do this in the middle of the season and
22:42 then just be like, "All right, we'll go back to your schedule."
22:44 They do have a bye week next week, so it's not like they don't have to immediately go
22:47 back and prepare to play the Jets next weekend.
22:51 That's the other part about this where it's the middle of the season.
22:54 All the London games have been over for weeks.
22:56 They got those done in late September, early October, and that's a shorter trip with one
23:01 hour, fewer difference going from London to central Germantown.
23:06 But I wonder how much deeper into the season they'll go with this because clearly there's
23:10 a market, there's an interest they're expanding.
23:12 I think the Patriots could be back as soon as 2025, but again, they're going to have
23:15 nine home games and be able to give one up with all the interest and the time and the
23:20 energy and resources they've poured into this market.
23:22 - Yeah.
23:23 No, I think there will be more, but yeah, it's tough because obviously you have to practice
23:28 on Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday heading into a game on Sunday, but between the travel
23:33 and the time change, you're just erasing 13 hours from your week of preparation, which
23:39 feels really difficult for any team.
23:41 And obviously they're both doing the same thing.
23:44 So both teams are going to be sleep deprived, jet lagged, losing 13 hours, all that different
23:48 stuff.
23:49 - There's no competitive advantage on either.
23:50 - Right.
23:51 But I don't know.
23:52 I mean, I think that if you're sleepy on the field and you're tired, yeah, there probably
23:56 is some player safety issues at hand there.
23:58 So I don't know.
23:59 That's not a valid card.
24:00 - Okay.
24:01 We're just about to end, so let's cut it right there.
24:02 Okay.
24:03 So you guys have heard me talk a fair amount about betting on this podcast, giving you
24:06 some advice, told you where to make those bets.
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25:30 I'd call that a winning bet.
25:32 - You got two left.
25:34 - Two left.
25:35 - One of which is at least Patriots defense versus the Colts.
25:38 Is that what we're talking about?
25:39 - Boom.
25:40 - Bang, there it is.
25:41 - Okay.
25:42 - Let me start here.
25:43 Gardner Minshew has never faced Bill Belichick before.
25:46 - I would love to see this played out, not in a 60 minute football game, but like an
25:51 hour at the bar.
25:52 Both of them just have fears of what is that interaction like?
25:55 Or playing chess.
25:56 I don't know if either of them know how to play chess, but you have two wildly disparate
26:00 characters in the world of NFL football finally coming together in a way that no one really
26:05 cares about probably more than I'm describing right now.
26:08 But I'm very fascinated to see this because Gardner Minshew is running their offense and
26:14 leading it to score 30 points on multiple occasions and could do it again on Sunday.
26:18 So it's as much about him as we could talk about Jonathan Taylor or the running game
26:21 or Josh Dallens is probably out.
26:23 But I don't know.
26:24 I'm excited for Minshew versus Bill.
26:26 - Minshew's fun.
26:27 - Yeah.
26:28 - He's a gunslinger.
26:29 He makes good plays.
26:30 He makes really dumb plays.
26:31 If this was a game against Sam Ellinger or even Colt McCoy or even one of those generic
26:39 backup types, you're like, "All right, whatever."
26:41 But Minshew is fun.
26:42 He's Minshew mania, he's got some spiciness to him.
26:45 He's got the long hair and the headband and all the crazy Minshew backstory.
26:49 I mean, the Colts are scoring a lot of points this season.
26:52 They haven't scored fewer than 20 points in any other games this season.
26:56 The Patriots have only scored more than 20 twice.
27:00 And right, twice the, yeah, the Dolphins game or the Eagles game in week one and then the
27:05 Bills game that they won.
27:06 - Yeah, 20 or more.
27:07 - And they've also, yes, and they've also allowed at least 20 points in every game except
27:12 for the Jets game in week three.
27:14 So those stats don't really shape up in the Patriots' favor, but I don't know, it would
27:19 have been fun to watch Anthony Richardson in this game if he was healthy.
27:23 It's a shame that you have the injuries that you have on both sides with these teams.
27:27 Richardson would have been fun.
27:28 It would have been fun to see a full-strength Patriots defense with Gonzalez and Judon and
27:31 some of those other guys in there.
27:33 But if you've got to have a backup from a watchability viewership standpoint, Minshew's
27:37 a good guy to have.
27:38 - Yeah, Jonathan Taylor had been pretty good this season over, I think, 3.4 yards after
27:43 contact for carry, whereas Rondre Stevenson's at like 2.6, just as far as like a comparison
27:48 sake goes.
27:49 And with Josh Downs, curious to see what happens there.
27:52 He's been really impressive so far as a rookie.
27:54 He did at least make the trip to Germany.
27:56 I think he was, what, he didn't practice.
27:59 - He didn't practice Wednesday or Thursday.
28:01 He had a re-aggravated knee injury.
28:03 Second-round rookie at UNC, who is this prototypical slot we were discussing all last spring.
28:07 - He's a big Patriots mockup.
28:08 - Patriots could really use him in the second round.
28:11 - But then, I mean, they did get Demario Douglas in the sixth round.
28:13 I think that they did kind of, they do a good job of like, maybe we don't have to pick the
28:17 slot receiver that early.
28:18 Maybe we can find him later, and that's what they've done in Demario Douglas.
28:22 But Michael Pittman would obviously be the best wide receiver on the Patriots roster
28:25 as well.
28:27 And yeah, it is a bummer that we don't get to see Anthony Richardson and that he only
28:30 got to play, what was it, three games or four games this season?
28:32 - Yeah, he got knocked out of at least two of them with injuries.
28:35 - Yeah, it's just like, it limits a quarterback's development, I think, so much to take him
28:39 off the field.
28:40 I think that he could be a really intriguing player in the NFL.
28:42 - So on Pittman, that dude is 6'4", 230 pounds.
28:46 He is towering over any Patriots corner that's going to see him on Sunday.
28:51 But after him, like, I look at the running backs catching passes because they have 31
28:55 catches between Jonathan Taylor and Zach Moss.
28:57 Zach Moss has been great because Colt's offensive line is the sixth best run-blocking line in
29:01 the entire league, according to PFF.
29:03 So whoever's getting the ball is doing some damage.
29:05 But if the Patriots are able to "take away" Pittman, which they were doing against number
29:10 one receivers until I wrote about it, and then they played Tyree Kill in Miami, who
29:14 went off for God knows how many yards and a touchdown.
29:17 - I got that out of the way one week earlier.
29:20 - Yeah, yeah, thank you for the heads up.
29:24 There are few options outside of him because Josh Downs is out, Alec Pierce is your next
29:28 receiver, he has 240-something yards a season, and then you get to the running backs.
29:31 And I don't think the Patriots are particularly strong against those running backs, but whether
29:36 they're defending them in pass coverage or coming downhill, like Bentley and everyone's
29:41 most improved, Jelani Tabai, I think have sneaky big roles in this game, whether it's
29:45 just tackling and preventing those explosive runs or the one-on-one opportunities they're
29:49 going to get in the flag against those guys when Pittman's double teamed and Minshew has
29:53 to check it down.
29:54 - Well, we should mention too that the Patriots cornerback situation in this game, no JC Jackson,
29:58 Patriots left him at home for disciplinary reasons.
30:01 I'm curious to see what they do with Jack Jones.
30:03 He's been a full participant in practice this week, but he also was reportedly missed curfew
30:09 alongside Jackson last week.
30:11 You don't know if there are going to be any lingering disciplinary effects on him in this
30:16 game, whether he's going to be benched to start the game, have a limited role, whatnot.
30:19 If he is, you're going to see more of Sean Wade, which I'm sure the Colts would like
30:23 to see.
30:24 But yeah, you're not going to have a full-strength Patriots secondary by any means going up against
30:29 this Colts receiving core.
30:31 Pittman's a guy that can hurt you if you don't put, especially if it's John Jones against
30:35 Michael Pittman, he's got what, five, six inches on Jonathan Jones.
30:39 - Probably 50 pounds.
30:40 - Yeah.
30:41 - Well, I'm glad you brought up JC Jackson and Jack Jones because that is the last item
30:44 here from the magic ice bucket of topics.
30:48 So let's just lay the groundwork because I haven't talked about this since it happened.
30:51 JC Jackson, as you just mentioned, we found out Wednesday after Bill Belichick left his
30:55 morning press conference, was going to be left home.
30:57 And this is news that did not come out 24 hours before the team left for Germany.
31:02 It was before then.
31:03 It was a decision they made before they even hit the practice field this week.
31:06 And it's due to personal reasons, it's due to performance, it's due to his attitude.
31:11 And we'd love to meet with Jack Jones because they both virtually sat the first quarter
31:15 against Washington.
31:16 Belichick said it wasn't a benching.
31:17 You get more reporting about, hey, they missed curfew.
31:20 Both of them did.
31:21 And that fully explains what happened to Jack Jones.
31:23 Something else is going on with JC.
31:25 And there are rumors and things that we hear in the media that you can't substantiate,
31:28 so you don't pass them along that are, would explain part of this.
31:32 The more interesting part to me is not that, hey, Michael Pittman is now a real big problem
31:35 on Sunday.
31:36 It's Belichick continuing to stand by JC and Jack Jones.
31:40 And I wrote a whole column about this and tweeted about it.
31:43 What do you see or think when it comes to Belichick continuing to stand by and really
31:47 empower guys who are breaking the rules and yet in Jack's case, still get to play or JC's
31:52 start after the first two drives and played the whole game against Washington?
31:55 I mean, I think that ultimately it just comes down to Belichick wants to win.
32:00 And those are two of his best three cornerbacks on the team.
32:04 And he has to have them on the field.
32:05 Otherwise, you're talking about at this point, Shawn Wade, Alex Austin, Miles Bryant, Jonathan
32:11 Jones, Breon Borders, Azizi Huron, like these guys, like you can't put a defense out there
32:17 really with those players.
32:19 You have to have JC Jackson or Jack Jones on the outside.
32:22 So I think they're just going to have to weather the storm.
32:25 But I mean, like just the message of this guy cannot travel with the team to Germany,
32:32 but we're going to keep him on the roster.
32:34 And for Jack Jones, and sit him for an entire week of practice too.
32:37 Yeah, and sit him for an entire week of practice.
32:39 For Jack Jones, we're going to sit this guy for the entire first quarter.
32:42 He's going to have a towel around his neck.
32:44 For part of the defensive series, he's sitting on the bench next to the kicker, Chad Ryland.
32:49 The rest of the defense is like standing near the sideline in case they have to go in.
32:53 So clearly he knew not only he wasn't going to go in, but he was showing like a disinterest
32:58 in the game at that point.
33:00 Like ideally in the past, when the Patriots were winning 13 games per season, both of
33:06 these guys might be caught in that situation, but they just have to have them out there.
33:10 But no, I mean, it's probably going to be a big Sean Wake game because even when Jack
33:14 Jones has played so far this season, he's been rotated onto the field.
33:18 They haven't given him like that full starting—
33:20 Well, he's been roasted on the field.
33:21 I mean, he gave up the last touchdown against Miami.
33:23 He came back in the second quarter against the Commanders, gave up two or three catches
33:27 depending on how you want to chart that.
33:28 Like, he's also just not been good.
33:30 And this is coming off of ending last season on the suspended list, walking out of a training
33:34 camp practice this summer.
33:35 Oh, and all the legal trouble that he got into.
33:38 This is a fourth round pick.
33:39 Like, he might be good, but he's not lived up to that talent this season.
33:42 And the way that they continue to stand by him and say, basically rubber stamp this behavior
33:47 as acceptable when other guys are in that locker and perpetuating the culture, "This
33:51 is two and seven.
33:52 We're going to abide and follow those rules."
33:54 Well, I think it sends a crappy message.
33:58 I get what you're saying, and I agree to a point, but they did bench JC Jackson and not
34:03 bring him on this trip.
34:05 So there—it wasn't a full endorsement of his—I mean, maybe it was an endorsement
34:09 in the moment last weekend because he ended up playing 50-something snaps in the game.
34:13 But after the game, he was told to basically stay away from the team for two weeks.
34:17 So there is some sort of level of consequence with that.
34:21 I'm curious whether there was something additional that happened after the game, because I don't
34:26 know how you go from, "Hey, we're going to sit you for two series but still play you
34:29 50 snaps," to, "Hey, stay away from this team for two weeks."
34:33 Whether that was a—the way that he handled the—like that role after the fact, whether
34:39 he was just—or was a kind of snowball-type situation.
34:44 It was funny that this all came out like five hours after the ESPN story on his time with
34:49 the Chargers.
34:50 That said, Tom Telesco, the Chargers general manager, personally apologized to the Chargers
34:55 defensive backs for both signing and vouching for Jackson.
34:59 And then he's seemingly doing similar type things now that he's back in New England.
35:02 But yeah, it's not what you want, obviously.
35:07 It's the fact that you have to—you need to play these players if you want to win.
35:13 But now they are choosing not to play J.C. Jackson.
35:15 So there is a—there is some level of consequence with it.
35:20 I think when it gets to a point that Scott's all like, "Color analyst, midday show host
35:25 on 98.5."
35:26 But like, friend of Belichick's comes out and says, "Cut him.
35:29 Cut J.C. Jackson."
35:30 Because you know what you were getting into when you brought him back.
35:33 You knew what you were getting into with the Jack Jones experience, and they continue to
35:36 abide by it.
35:37 That's what kind of blows my mind.
35:38 And I get that a lot of this is due to injuries as we wrap up the kind of segment here.
35:42 But it's just—like, you're fighting for the culture now, and these are guys who are
35:46 still integral to your defense.
35:48 And yeah, it's partly due to circumstance with other guys getting hurt.
35:51 But at some point, I don't know when you would say they are cut.
35:56 Because a lot has gone on that would lead people close to the program and watching this
36:00 stuff the same day every day, say it should have happened already, and obviously it hasn't.
36:03 I mean, yeah, I think Jack Jones is fortunate that it didn't happen when he got arrested
36:07 at Logan Airport in June.
36:10 And then, as we've said, there's been multiple instances since then of him leaving practice
36:14 early.
36:15 Now this, with him being late to the team facility or to the team hotel on Saturday.
36:20 But no one really wants to fully say what's going on with J.C. Jackson.
36:24 So it does feel like there's something more or something more must have happened afterwards.
36:28 Or like, maybe they didn't get the full story of why he was late to the team hotel.
36:33 Something else seems to have caused that he went from missing two defensive series to
36:39 now being away from the team for two weeks.
36:41 And we have to assume he's going to be back with the team after this two weeks.
36:45 But I don't know if that's a guarantee based on how these next two weeks go for him.
36:50 I got asked a mail-to-mail question if I thought that what came out in the ESPN article from
36:55 his time in the Chargers influenced this decision at all.
36:59 I don't think so.
37:00 I don't think that would have been fair to him.
37:02 I think you have to start with a clean slate when he comes back.
37:04 But I think that that shows what's possible with J.C. Jackson.
37:09 And it shows what is probably still going on behind the scenes with him now back on
37:13 the Patriots.
37:14 And just the people of the Chargers, which maybe this is more a reflection of them than
37:18 it is him, being so open and willing to share that stuff.
37:21 The reporter who wrote that was new to that beat this season and came in after the season
37:26 started.
37:27 So I know they do a good job.
37:29 That was a very good story.
37:30 But that's not someone who's been embedded or has contacts.
37:33 Those are people from the team being like, "Get a load of this."
37:36 That's the team saying, "Hey, this is why we were willing to give this guy away, literally
37:40 for free."
37:41 Yeah.
37:42 Yeah, they really did.
37:43 All right.
37:44 Well, we can't end on that note.
37:45 Game picks and any other lingering Frankfurt thoughts?
37:48 I haven't been in Frankfurt enough to have any more lingering.
37:51 I think they're all out there.
37:52 Every single thought that I have about Frankfurt has been stated.
37:57 Colts are going to, I think, going to win this game.
38:01 I can't see the Patriots score more than two touchdowns, so I'll say like 20-17 Colts.
38:05 Oh, OK.
38:06 Close.
38:07 I'm going Colts 16, Patriots 13.
38:10 A repeat of the Thursday night score.
38:12 I think it's going to be an equally ugly game, even though, as I mentioned before, the Colts
38:16 have been able to put up some points, but this just strikes me as a sleepwalk type game,
38:21 an ugly game.
38:22 The Patriots have been playing a lot of those lately and really over the last couple of
38:26 years.
38:27 I think it's relatively low scoring and the Colts win a somewhat close one.
38:30 I know the Patriots were super close to finishing that draft.
38:33 I mean, Juju Smith-Schuster catches the ball against Washington.
38:36 You probably go on in March to a tie or perhaps a win.
38:39 You're in field goal range if he catches the ball.
38:40 But I looked at that spread and I look at the run of play that Washington had and go,
38:44 the Patriots are favored by two and a half in that game.
38:46 And I look at this where they were favored to start the week or on Sunday and then it
38:49 flipped to the Colts minus one and now it's minus 2.5.
38:53 I think the Colts cover easily.
38:55 I think this is 24-13 Indianapolis and it's partly the matchup last year, which was just
39:00 a slog.
39:01 We had more talent on offense.
39:03 It's just hard, man, right now for them to live on offense and stay on schedule, which
39:06 is the whole game because they just don't have any explosive plays and it's going to
39:09 be hard to get them on Sunday.
39:11 But we are going to go speak to those Patriots and Bill Belichick and Mack Jones and Hunter
39:16 Henry and Reminder Stevenson and see what they think of Frankfurt and their thoughts
39:19 will probably be better than the ones we've shared here.
39:21 I don't know.
39:22 I'm going to take our thoughts over any country's thoughts.
39:23 We're going to be able to get a couple hours here.
39:24 And granted, to be fair to them, they'll have done a different version of what we've done.
39:32 Get in, go to the hotel, walk around and then practice football.
39:35 I don't even know what you're saying.
39:36 They might not even be in downtown Frankfurt.
39:38 They might be off at Bach or somewhere else.
39:41 In the woods.
39:42 Yeah.
39:43 So it's a great experience.
39:45 It's been here.
39:46 If you are in town and listening or watching this podcast and you see us, give us a shout
39:50 or find us on Twitter and we will come.
39:51 We will be out and about different bars, maybe driving to a castle tomorrow.
39:55 More to be found and more to be shared at a later date.
39:58 But for now, thank you for Doug for DAC.
39:59 I'm Andrew Kallion.
40:00 This has been Pats Interference brought to you by Fandle, the exclusive wagering partner
40:02 of the CLS Media Network.
40:03 Auf Wiedersehen!
40:04 [END]
40:05 Pats Interference brought to you by Fandle, the exclusive wagering partner of the CLS Media Network.
40:05 [END]
40:15 [BLANK_AUDIO]