Lance Moore, a former NFL player turned entrepreneur, shared his inspiring journey to success. From his early days as a karate prodigy to becoming a standout college football player and eventually making his mark in the NFL, Moore's story is one of perseverance, hard work, and a champion's mindset.
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00:00:00 It's hard as hell to make it to the NFL, but guess what?
00:00:03 It's harder to stay.
00:00:04 There was really a mental battle that I fought that year
00:00:09 because I was like, "Dang, I finally made the team."
00:00:12 And then I only ended up playing in like four or five games
00:00:15 before they cut me again
00:00:16 and put me back on the practice squad.
00:00:18 (upbeat music)
00:00:25 A champion's mindset to me doesn't necessarily mean
00:00:30 championship trophy,
00:00:31 doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with sports.
00:00:36 To me, a champion is a successful person.
00:00:40 If you don't have that self-confidence,
00:00:42 you don't think you can do it,
00:00:44 just tell yourself you can do it.
00:00:46 Like a lot of it starts there.
00:00:48 Fake it till you make it is just not some silly quote.
00:00:50 Like it works.
00:00:55 - Welcome to the show, Lance.
00:00:56 How are you, man?
00:00:57 - Doing great, doing great.
00:00:59 I'm kind of blown away by how awesome this studio is.
00:01:03 And I really like, I work in media a little bit myself
00:01:06 and I feel like I have a pretty good setup at home,
00:01:10 in my office, and then I come in here and I'm like,
00:01:12 "Okay, yeah, I'm not doing it right."
00:01:15 - Well, to quote your former teammate,
00:01:19 "How you do anything is how you do everything."
00:01:21 So we had to apply that logic here.
00:01:23 - For sure.
00:01:24 - But for everyone, Lance has been a friend
00:01:28 for about five years now?
00:01:30 - Six years.
00:01:30 - Six years now?
00:01:31 - Yeah.
00:01:32 - Investor in Ever Bowl.
00:01:34 I used to kick his ass on a basketball court.
00:01:36 Just kidding.
00:01:38 But no, we met actually playing basketball
00:01:40 and we're the same age.
00:01:41 And what I loved about you from the get-go
00:01:45 is the fact that you have that small dog syndrome like I do.
00:01:50 And so it's been an enjoyment to get to know you
00:01:53 over the last six years and now have you here in studio
00:01:55 as a guest on the Jeff Fenster Show
00:01:56 and getting to reverse engineer
00:01:57 what makes Lance more successful
00:01:59 at all the different things that he's done.
00:02:01 And what's really, in a weird way though,
00:02:04 you're also kind of like my pet peeve for me
00:02:07 because the excuses that I used to tell myself
00:02:10 why I didn't play in the NFL,
00:02:11 you solved 'cause we're the same size-ish.
00:02:14 So congratulations.
00:02:16 - I appreciate it, I appreciate it.
00:02:18 Yeah, well, look, it's awesome to be here
00:02:21 and to spend some time and talk about things that we've done
00:02:25 and things that we've got going on.
00:02:26 And I truly feel like we share a similar mindset,
00:02:31 something that I've kind of talked about
00:02:35 with other businesses before
00:02:37 and something that I've kind of been developing,
00:02:38 which hopefully at some point will be a book.
00:02:42 I like to call it "The Champion's Mindset."
00:02:44 And I think that's, we'll get into it, I'm sure, as we go,
00:02:48 but a lot of it has to do with mentality
00:02:50 and not ever allowing somebody or someone to tell you
00:02:55 you can or cannot do something
00:02:58 and having self-confidence and having a tireless work ethic.
00:03:03 And I think you embody all of those things.
00:03:05 Obviously, you wouldn't be here today if you didn't.
00:03:08 And we can talk about how that relates
00:03:11 to being a smaller person
00:03:12 and how that kind of helped propel me
00:03:15 into the professional football ranks.
00:03:17 But it is something that some people develop over time.
00:03:22 It's something that people are born with.
00:03:27 But I do think it's an integral part of success,
00:03:32 being able to have a strong mind to be able to,
00:03:37 'cause you're gonna face challenges
00:03:39 in everything that you do in life.
00:03:40 And you and I, I guess, are great examples of that.
00:03:46 - Take me back to high school,
00:03:47 because when you were in high school,
00:03:49 you weren't highly recruited.
00:03:51 - No. - But you were recruited.
00:03:52 - Yes, yeah.
00:03:53 So I was five, nine, 150 pounds or so as a senior,
00:03:58 but I was first team All-State in Ohio.
00:04:03 And those of you who don't know,
00:04:05 high school football is one of the best in the country.
00:04:08 And it wasn't like I was playing a lower division.
00:04:11 I was playing Division I.
00:04:11 So I was playing in the biggest division,
00:04:13 and I broke a bunch of state records.
00:04:15 And I was really, really good.
00:04:18 But for whatever reason,
00:04:19 and I just was not getting the scholarship offers
00:04:23 that I thought that I deserved.
00:04:24 I was getting recruited by a ton of schools.
00:04:26 I mean, I had letters,
00:04:28 multiple letters coming to the house every single day.
00:04:30 But at the end of the day, there was no offers.
00:04:33 And I went through almost my entire senior year
00:04:36 with zero scholarship offers.
00:04:37 So-- - Not even partial?
00:04:39 - None, zero, no scholarships at all.
00:04:41 Partial, full, it didn't matter.
00:04:44 I was like, "Dang, I'm gonna have to end up
00:04:46 "being a walk-on because I'm a smaller guy,
00:04:48 "because I'm not a 4'3" fast guy.
00:04:52 "That's gonna have to be my route."
00:04:53 Now, growing up in Columbus, Ohio,
00:04:55 being an Ohio State fan,
00:04:57 Ohio State was like, "Yeah, sure, sure.
00:04:58 "Come be a preferred walk-on here."
00:05:01 Yeah, they would love to have a guy
00:05:03 that's scholarship quality player,
00:05:06 but maybe not getting the attention
00:05:08 to come in basically for free on them
00:05:10 'cause they wouldn't have had to pay.
00:05:11 So that was kind of the idea.
00:05:14 And then two weeks before I graduated,
00:05:16 I got a call from Akron on a Tuesday,
00:05:19 Eastern Michigan on a Wednesday,
00:05:20 Kent State on, or excuse me, Toledo on a Thursday.
00:05:23 Toledo, the school I ended up going to.
00:05:25 I forget about them.
00:05:26 So in three days, I had three scholarship offers.
00:05:30 And-- - And this is June.
00:05:33 - This is late May. - Late May.
00:05:35 - This is late May.
00:05:36 So my mom was like, "Okay, we need to go visit
00:05:41 "these schools now 'cause we kind of have to figure out
00:05:43 "where you're gonna go."
00:05:44 And I was like, "Yeah, 'cause we're not paying
00:05:46 "to go to school."
00:05:47 I didn't grow up with money.
00:05:49 And at that point it was like,
00:05:50 "Okay, I'm gonna have to work.
00:05:52 "My mom's gonna probably have to take another job
00:05:54 "for us to be able to pay for a school."
00:05:56 So once offers came in, it was like,
00:05:59 "Nah, that dream has kind of gone by the wayside.
00:06:02 "We're gonna go and get this free education."
00:06:04 And visited Akron and Toledo and was like,
00:06:09 "I don't really wanna go to Eastern Michigan.
00:06:10 "So chose Toledo and--"
00:06:13 - What made you choose Toledo?
00:06:15 - I liked that they had a new coach
00:06:21 and a new offensive coordinator.
00:06:24 They were planning to throw the ball a lot
00:06:27 'cause Rob Spence was my coach
00:06:29 and he came from Louisiana Tech before that.
00:06:33 And they threw the ball like 50 times a game
00:06:35 at Louisiana Tech.
00:06:36 And I'm like, "Fuck, I'm a receiver.
00:06:37 "I wanna go catch balls."
00:06:39 Like, "This is the perfect place."
00:06:40 And there wasn't, back then, I mean, we're talking 2001,
00:06:45 there wasn't a lot of schools
00:06:46 that were throwing the ball like that back then.
00:06:48 Now, there was a few, but not a ton of them.
00:06:52 - That was 2001.
00:06:53 I mean, that was, Kurt Warner was just,
00:06:55 I mean, that was the greatest show on turf
00:06:57 beginning of Aired Out Football.
00:06:59 - Yeah, yeah, I mean, and in college,
00:07:01 there wasn't a lot of it.
00:07:02 I mean, most colleges were running
00:07:03 pro-style offenses back then.
00:07:05 There wasn't, the air raid wasn't a thing back then.
00:07:09 So these kind of West Coast spread out,
00:07:12 three and four wide receivers
00:07:13 that throw in the football,
00:07:14 that wasn't really big in college football.
00:07:17 So to see it somewhere that had offered me,
00:07:19 I was like, "Yeah, this is,"
00:07:20 I was just instantly drawn to that.
00:07:22 And then, I'm an Ohio kid.
00:07:24 So it's a two-hour trip from Columbus to Toledo.
00:07:27 And that was big for me.
00:07:31 And so that, it made sense.
00:07:33 And it felt right when I went on my visit.
00:07:36 I had a good visit and the receiver coach
00:07:38 was awesome.
00:07:39 It just felt right.
00:07:40 I feel like a lot of those types of decisions back then,
00:07:45 now it's a little different now.
00:07:46 There's a lot more going on in the recruiting process.
00:07:49 And then trying to get kids to commit places
00:07:52 like with the NIL and everything like that.
00:07:54 But it just felt like home.
00:07:57 And it really, it worked out
00:08:00 in the way that it should have, I think.
00:08:01 - Yep, yep.
00:08:02 So you go, when you're at Toledo,
00:08:04 did you have to fight for that spot as a freshman?
00:08:07 - Yeah, I mean, I got there for training camp
00:08:12 and back then, you used to have freshman camp.
00:08:15 And so obviously, it's only freshmen,
00:08:17 but you had junior college transfers
00:08:21 and non-starting quarterbacks.
00:08:22 So we had enough guys to practice.
00:08:25 I mean, there was probably 40 or so guys that were there,
00:08:28 maybe even more, maybe 45 or 50 guys.
00:08:30 But we were having two days, just with the freshmen.
00:08:34 And at that point, it was like,
00:08:36 okay, this is the calm before the storm.
00:08:39 But I've got to show that I'm capable of playing.
00:08:44 So May plays, and after the very first practice,
00:08:49 my high school quarterback was actually there.
00:08:53 He came in as a walk-on,
00:08:54 and we were rooming together in the dorm.
00:08:56 And he comes in, he's like, "I'm leaving."
00:08:58 I'm like, "What?"
00:08:59 First day, first day of practice.
00:09:01 I'm like, "What?"
00:09:02 He's like, "Yeah, I just, I didn't get any reps.
00:09:05 "There's no way I'm going to get reps
00:09:06 "when the varsity guys come."
00:09:09 And I'm like, "Don't worry about that.
00:09:11 "Just stay here, stay the course.
00:09:13 "And at some point, they're going to put you in,
00:09:15 "and they're going to watch you throw,
00:09:17 "and they're going to be like, 'Wow.'"
00:09:19 And he just said, "Nope, I got to go."
00:09:21 And so at that point, in my mind,
00:09:24 it was like, I could take it one of two ways.
00:09:25 I could say, "Hey, my buddy, my friend is leaving me.
00:09:29 "What am I going to do without him?"
00:09:30 Or it's going to be like, "Okay, well, he's leaving.
00:09:32 "I'm going to be here by myself for a while.
00:09:33 "I'm going to get in the book."
00:09:35 And that's what I did.
00:09:36 I was in that playbook every single day and night
00:09:40 until it was literally time to,
00:09:42 I couldn't keep my eyes open anymore.
00:09:44 And some of my buddies always make fun of me.
00:09:46 They're like, "You didn't talk to anybody.
00:09:48 "You would literally go back to the dorm,
00:09:50 "you'd go in your room, you'd lock the door,
00:09:51 "and you'd study the playbook."
00:09:52 And that's what I did.
00:09:53 And so I learned the offense by myself.
00:09:56 Now, obviously, we had meetings,
00:09:58 and the coaches would coach it up,
00:09:59 but I learned every position, the receiver position,
00:10:02 that offense within two or three weeks of camp.
00:10:05 I knew it, like the back of my hand.
00:10:07 And so when the time came, when the older guys,
00:10:10 the veteran guys came in, I was already mentally prepared.
00:10:15 I knew what I needed to do.
00:10:19 It was just a matter of, well, when and if
00:10:22 I'm going to get that opportunity.
00:10:23 So they had all the starting positions,
00:10:26 obviously, everybody was back.
00:10:28 So they had three starting receivers,
00:10:31 all those guys were back,
00:10:32 and there was two seniors backing those guys up.
00:10:36 So they had their top five locked in.
00:10:38 And then you could kind of say like six and seven,
00:10:41 and eight were kind of locked in as well,
00:10:43 'cause those guys were freshmen the year before.
00:10:45 So I was so far down the depth chart,
00:10:48 but every day in camp, I would show up, I would make plays.
00:10:51 I would show up, I would make plays.
00:10:52 And then eventually, during camp,
00:10:56 like the end of the game or the end of practice breakdowns,
00:10:59 like the head coach was like, one day,
00:11:01 he's just like, this guy has shown up every single day,
00:11:04 he's made plays, he's done nothing but work,
00:11:06 and blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:11:07 And I want him to come up and break it down.
00:11:08 And he's like, Lance Moore.
00:11:10 And I was kind of like, huh?
00:11:11 I was like kind of caught off guard.
00:11:12 I was like, what is, okay, whatever.
00:11:14 So I get up and I break it down.
00:11:16 But they're always like, you were the only freshman
00:11:18 that got to break the team down.
00:11:19 And I didn't think too much of it.
00:11:21 I was like, I didn't catch any balls in the game.
00:11:24 Like, cool, I got to break everybody down.
00:11:26 So for me, it was just back to work.
00:11:28 Like, I've always kind of embodied this,
00:11:31 don't act like you've made it, or even better,
00:11:36 work like you haven't made it yet.
00:11:38 Like, so I wasn't satisfied with breaking the team down.
00:11:41 It's just like, okay, that's cool, but what's next?
00:11:44 Like, I'm going to get back in the lab,
00:11:45 I'm going to get back in the weight room
00:11:47 and study these plays again, I'm going to watch the film.
00:11:49 And so I was, I had a different level of work ethic,
00:11:53 I think, and mentality than a lot of guys did then.
00:11:57 - What gave you that?
00:11:58 Was that your parents?
00:11:59 Is that something you always had?
00:12:00 - I think my, I grew up in the dojo.
00:12:04 My dad still has a dojo today.
00:12:07 It's, ah, shoot, man, he's had a dojo in Columbus
00:12:10 for over 40 years now.
00:12:12 - Straight karate?
00:12:13 - Karate, yep, Sean Rue karate.
00:12:15 - You black belt?
00:12:17 - I'm a black belt, yeah, I got my black,
00:12:18 I started karate when I was three years old.
00:12:20 And I got my black belt when I was 10.
00:12:25 You know, state champion, fought in national tournaments.
00:12:28 I mean, like, I was doing karate every weekend
00:12:32 from the time I was three until probably 11,
00:12:36 like, karate tournaments.
00:12:38 And by the time I was 13, I was just so over it.
00:12:40 I was like, I gotta do, like, I can't do karate anymore.
00:12:43 I just was burnt out.
00:12:45 But--
00:12:46 - Are tournaments like the "Karate Kid" movie?
00:12:48 - Similar, not quite as dramatic as that.
00:12:52 But I mean, every now and again,
00:12:53 there's a dramatic fight or something for a championship,
00:12:56 but it's so far dramatized for TV or for film.
00:13:01 Great movie, though.
00:13:03 But I think that work ethic and the discipline
00:13:08 and the kind of workers' mentality,
00:13:13 nobody can beat me type of thing came from him.
00:13:19 And my mom as well.
00:13:20 Like, just super hardworking people.
00:13:23 And yeah, I mean, I had to,
00:13:27 I didn't play in the first game my freshman year.
00:13:30 I went to the coach's office.
00:13:31 I said, "Hey, I would love to redshirt.
00:13:32 "Like, this would be awesome,
00:13:33 "like, to learn from these guys,
00:13:35 "to physically be able to develop
00:13:37 "and learn the offense even better
00:13:39 "and have four years after this year."
00:13:41 And the head coach was like,
00:13:42 "Yeah, I think that's a good plan."
00:13:43 Fast forward to week two,
00:13:44 we had two receivers go down and I'm in the game.
00:13:46 And back then, it was like,
00:13:48 you get in the game, your redshirt's gone.
00:13:51 Like, now you can play four games or something like that
00:13:54 and your stats count and you still are able to redshirt.
00:13:58 But from there, it was,
00:14:00 I had six catches that year, the entire year.
00:14:04 And coming from high school
00:14:05 where I was breaking state records,
00:14:06 I caught 103 balls the year before.
00:14:09 So to go from that to six was very, very trying.
00:14:14 It was frustrating.
00:14:15 I was ready to leave the school.
00:14:17 And my mom was kind of like,
00:14:19 "Whatever you wanna do, I got your back.
00:14:22 "If you wanna leave here, we can go somewhere else."
00:14:25 And I just, for whatever reason,
00:14:27 I just was like, "I'll stick with it."
00:14:30 - I'm assuming the coaches were in your ear
00:14:31 saying, "Wait your turn."
00:14:33 - No, not really.
00:14:34 - Nothing? - No.
00:14:36 Because I feel like,
00:14:38 even, I guess it could be different back then,
00:14:40 but I don't feel like it's the coach's job
00:14:42 to pacify everybody.
00:14:45 I don't think they are required
00:14:47 to tell you it's gonna be okay.
00:14:49 - No, but when they want you to--
00:14:51 - You're a grown man, and you've got to,
00:14:55 it's not all gonna be given to you
00:14:58 when you think it's your time.
00:15:00 And I was guilty of letting my emotions,
00:15:05 and those moments kind of get the best of me,
00:15:10 where I was like, "Forget this place.
00:15:12 "They don't wanna throw me the ball."
00:15:14 And I told them I wanted to,
00:15:16 and there was resentment that was built up,
00:15:19 but at the end of the day,
00:15:21 I was the next best guy, and they put me in.
00:15:26 And it just so happened that I didn't get the ball
00:15:28 in those games, but I was playing.
00:15:32 It might not have been what I wanted,
00:15:34 but even the next year, I was a backup again,
00:15:39 'cause all those guys, the starters,
00:15:42 not the other two seniors, but the starters,
00:15:44 those guys were all back,
00:15:45 so I was backing all those guys up again.
00:15:47 So it didn't quite go the way that I would hope it would go,
00:15:51 but I played more, I got more balls,
00:15:54 I scored a couple touchdowns,
00:15:55 so it was like there's some progression going on,
00:15:59 but at the same time, I was smart enough
00:16:01 and had enough wherewithal to realize
00:16:04 there's guys behind me now that wanna play too.
00:16:07 And so I'm gonna make sure that I'm putting in the work,
00:16:10 and I don't know if Drew said it when you talked to him,
00:16:13 but it's old Sean Payton, even Bill Parcells quote,
00:16:17 you're either getting better or you're getting worse.
00:16:19 And I truly believe that.
00:16:22 And people say, well, what does that mean?
00:16:23 What does that mean?
00:16:24 Okay, you're either working to get better and improve,
00:16:27 or you're getting worse,
00:16:27 and you're not actually physically getting worse,
00:16:30 but guess what, everybody else is working.
00:16:33 So where you fall on that spectrum is gonna be lower
00:16:37 than it was when you decided you weren't gonna work anymore.
00:16:40 - Well, average moves.
00:16:41 - 100%.
00:16:41 - Average moves up.
00:16:43 - And you stay the same, so by default, you're worse.
00:16:46 - Yeah, you're average.
00:16:47 - You're worse.
00:16:48 And so I have always been like,
00:16:51 okay, I gotta keep working, gotta keep working,
00:16:54 gotta keep working, and that was what I did.
00:16:57 And my junior year, I led the country in catches.
00:16:59 And my senior year, I was one of the top guys in the country.
00:17:03 I was an academic All-American first team,
00:17:05 and I was an honorable mention All-American on the field.
00:17:08 And it's, obviously, a lot of things have to go right.
00:17:11 You gotta be healthy, you have to stay in good graces
00:17:14 with the coaches and the team,
00:17:16 but you can't give yourself the opportunity to do that
00:17:21 if you don't put the work in.
00:17:23 And that was something that I always did in school,
00:17:28 and just 'cause I was like, I wanna be great,
00:17:32 and the only way that I'm gonna be great
00:17:33 is to continue to work.
00:17:35 - What'd you major in?
00:17:36 - So I went to school and decided,
00:17:39 'cause I really didn't know,
00:17:41 I was like, oh, maybe business.
00:17:42 So I ended up majoring in business management
00:17:45 with a minor in marketing.
00:17:47 - And you were an academic All-American.
00:17:51 - I was a first team academic All-American.
00:17:53 I was All-MAC, so the All-Conference Academics first team
00:17:57 a couple of times, as well as first team All-MAC
00:18:00 a couple of times.
00:18:01 But yeah, I was first team Academic All-American
00:18:03 my senior year, which to me is like,
00:18:06 that is just as cool as being an All-American on the field.
00:18:11 - I think it's almost cooler.
00:18:14 - Because I've always been, the academic side for me,
00:18:19 I'm not gonna say it always came easy, but a little bit,
00:18:23 but I've always been like thirsty to learn.
00:18:25 And I've taken my studies very, very seriously.
00:18:30 And people are always like,
00:18:32 "Yeah, your dad would probably karate chop you
00:18:33 if you got a B."
00:18:34 I'm like, "No, it wasn't that extreme."
00:18:37 But I feel like my mom was always a great student
00:18:41 when she was younger.
00:18:42 And I think that's just something that kind of,
00:18:44 she gave to me and it was always important to me.
00:18:50 And you know what I treated as I got a little older,
00:18:54 middle school, high school, college,
00:18:56 I treated my academics like competition.
00:19:00 And so I was like,
00:19:01 "I'm gonna get the best grade in this class."
00:19:03 And so I would do everything I could
00:19:05 to try to get the best grade in the class.
00:19:06 And it didn't always work out that way,
00:19:10 but it held me to a high standard personally
00:19:13 without there having to be this pull from home
00:19:18 or threats of taking things away
00:19:21 if you aren't getting a 3.0.
00:19:24 To me, it was important enough that I,
00:19:27 and I had the ability as well.
00:19:29 I mean, it can be important to you
00:19:31 and you just aren't that smart.
00:19:32 - Sure.
00:19:33 - I mean, we're all different intelligence wise,
00:19:36 but it was important to me to get good grades.
00:19:39 And that was, I feel like it's, as a dad now,
00:19:44 I feel like I've kind of pulled back a little bit on that
00:19:47 'cause I don't wanna put pressure on my kids.
00:19:51 I'll talk about how important it is to work hard
00:19:54 and to study, but I don't think I'll ever,
00:19:57 'cause my parents never did it to me.
00:19:58 I just, it just naturally, I was,
00:20:00 I wanted to get good grades and it was important to me.
00:20:03 I don't wanna push it on them
00:20:06 to give them any unnecessary pressure.
00:20:09 And my kids are almost eight, six,
00:20:15 and almost six and almost four.
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00:20:20 still kind of mold them the way that we think we should,
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00:21:22 Now, let's get after those goals.
00:21:24 What are you gonna do or what would you do
00:21:27 if one of your kids just doesn't care about school?
00:21:30 Doesn't care about good grades,
00:21:32 doesn't have that thirst for knowledge?
00:21:33 - That's a great question.
00:21:34 I think,
00:21:35 I think there would have to be certain conversations
00:21:41 about the necessity of education,
00:21:44 but maybe not the necessity of all A's.
00:21:49 I think it's a different conversation
00:21:50 that you have with a child that may be gifted
00:21:53 because the reality is, if you've got three kids,
00:21:59 there's probably gonna be one of them that don't care.
00:22:01 And this could very well be a conversation that we have.
00:22:06 But again, to me, it's not as important
00:22:10 the grade point average or the getting the A's on the test
00:22:15 as it is learning and then improvement.
00:22:20 And I'm gonna do everything I can to help
00:22:23 if one of my kids is a little bit slower
00:22:25 in the learning spot or having trouble taking tests.
00:22:28 Like I'm gonna give them every opportunity to improve
00:22:31 if I can, whether it's getting a tutor
00:22:34 or spending some extra time or tutoring myself.
00:22:37 Like I'll do whatever I can to try to help.
00:22:39 But yeah, I mean, there's no way around it.
00:22:43 Like kids have to go to school,
00:22:44 so you might as well maximize what you can out of it.
00:22:47 And if you don't care for school, that's okay
00:22:52 'cause there's been plenty of successful people
00:22:54 who either A, didn't go to college
00:22:56 or B, didn't care for school ever
00:22:59 and have still found a way to be successful.
00:23:01 I think that instilling a work ethic
00:23:04 as well as them being kind and a caring person
00:23:09 and having goals, I think that to me is more important
00:23:13 than saying, "Hey, I graduated cum laude."
00:23:15 Like that, so I did graduate cum laude by the way.
00:23:20 (laughing)
00:23:23 - Well, just wanna make sure everyone knew that.
00:23:27 No big deal.
00:23:28 - Well, that's why I was just thinking about it.
00:23:30 I was like, "Yeah, I did."
00:23:31 - But I think that what's interesting about your story is,
00:23:35 'cause you do have, you have a formula
00:23:37 that has allowed you to be successful.
00:23:38 It's clear as day listening to you.
00:23:41 And you've had the examples where it's been tested
00:23:44 because you led the nation in catches your junior year.
00:23:48 You were all-American nominee your senior year.
00:23:53 But you don't get drafted to the NFL.
00:23:55 And I'm assuming your senior year,
00:23:57 you thought you were getting drafted to the NFL.
00:23:59 - For sure.
00:24:00 - You said, "There's no way I'm not getting drafted."
00:24:02 - I almost left early.
00:24:03 I almost left after my junior year.
00:24:04 I led the country.
00:24:05 I was like, "Yeah, I should test my draft status
00:24:08 "and see where I would fall.
00:24:09 "And if there's an opportunity to go to the NFL now,
00:24:12 "why would I not take it?"
00:24:13 - Sure.
00:24:14 - And for whatever reason, I just decided,
00:24:16 I was like, "I want to come back.
00:24:17 "I want to have another year with my guys."
00:24:19 Like we had unfinished business.
00:24:21 We wanted to win a conference championship.
00:24:22 And I, unfortunately, I got hurt in the bowl game,
00:24:27 which is obviously the last game my senior year.
00:24:34 Dislocated shoulder,
00:24:35 ended up having to have labrum surgery.
00:24:37 And now while I had the success on the field,
00:24:40 I also got combine invite, two all-star game invites,
00:24:44 and all that stuff went away.
00:24:45 Not went away, but I just, I could not compete
00:24:48 because I had to have shoulder surgery.
00:24:50 And so I still figured I would get drafted.
00:24:55 I just, I believe--
00:24:57 - A late round flyer.
00:24:58 - I believe that the tape doesn't lie.
00:25:00 Turn on the tape.
00:25:00 That's the player I am.
00:25:01 Don't look at me now with my sling on
00:25:04 and think like, "Oh, this guy, he's crippled.
00:25:06 "He can't play."
00:25:07 Just turn on the tape.
00:25:08 That's the same player.
00:25:10 Small stature, small school.
00:25:14 I mean, all those things kind of work against you.
00:25:15 Then I was injured.
00:25:16 So my agent and I had conversations about,
00:25:19 "Hey, the reality is you should probably get drafted,
00:25:23 "but you might not.
00:25:25 "We might have to go the undrafted free agent route."
00:25:27 And while the dream has always been,
00:25:30 I want to hear my name called,
00:25:31 realizing that there could be a different opportunity
00:25:37 while I didn't want that was okay.
00:25:41 And during the draft, it's long
00:25:46 and you're kind of on the edge of your seat.
00:25:51 When is it going to happen?
00:25:52 And I have coaches calling me,
00:25:53 "Hey, we're thinking about picking you."
00:25:55 Or, "Hey, where are you right now?
00:25:57 "We've got mini camp this weekend.
00:25:59 "We're going to get you here."
00:26:00 And this is happening, fourth, fifth, sixth round.
00:26:02 So I'm thinking, I'm going to get drafted by somebody.
00:26:05 And when it doesn't happen,
00:26:07 there's this kind of like,
00:26:09 "Oh man, I didn't get drafted."
00:26:10 But then my phone's ringing.
00:26:12 My agent's like, "Hey, I'm on the horn with Cleveland.
00:26:14 "I'm on the phone with Cincinnati and Buffalo
00:26:17 "and Kansas City."
00:26:17 And I'm kind of like, "Okay, snap out of it."
00:26:20 It didn't happen.
00:26:21 Nothing I can do to change it.
00:26:22 What now?
00:26:23 - So you didn't have very much time to--
00:26:25 - There's not any time.
00:26:26 As soon as the draft is over,
00:26:28 the phone, I'm sure my agent was calling teams,
00:26:31 sixth, seventh round.
00:26:32 So he already knew, 'cause literally the last pick came
00:26:36 and my phone was ringing.
00:26:37 And he's like, "These are the teams I'm talking to.
00:26:39 "I'll get back to you in a minute."
00:26:41 And so there's not a lot of time to sulk.
00:26:43 It's like, and then once we figured out,
00:26:46 "Hey, Cleveland is probably the right team
00:26:48 "or the right place for me."
00:26:50 It becomes more of like a celebration again.
00:26:52 Like, "Okay, yes, I'm signing with the Browns.
00:26:54 "This is awesome."
00:26:55 Like my dream of being an NFL player
00:26:58 is on its way to coming true.
00:26:59 And so I chose Cleveland because we looked at the roster
00:27:04 and their depth chart.
00:27:05 And I was like, "Hey, there could potentially
00:27:07 "be an opportunity there."
00:27:08 Even though they drafted Braylon Edwards
00:27:09 like third overall that year.
00:27:11 "Hey, there could be an opportunity here.
00:27:14 "And it's in Ohio again.
00:27:17 "Easy for me, easy for my family
00:27:18 "to be able to drive to games."
00:27:20 And yeah, I mean, it was one of those moments
00:27:25 that I honestly, I don't really reflect on that moment
00:27:31 as much, maybe as I should.
00:27:34 It's more about like kind of the journey
00:27:36 that I think about and not so much like making it there.
00:27:39 Because like I said, I always worked like I hadn't made it.
00:27:43 So in my mind, that moment wasn't necessarily
00:27:48 a make it moment.
00:27:50 It's just like, okay, this is--
00:27:52 - Well, the mountain is high for an undrafted free agent.
00:27:55 - For sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:27:56 I mean, the odds are stacked against you.
00:27:57 - Sure. - Yeah, for sure.
00:27:58 I mean, it's--
00:27:59 - You probably had a moment to understand
00:28:01 what you had in front of you.
00:28:02 - I didn't.
00:28:04 Not going to Cleveland, I didn't.
00:28:05 - No. - Mm-mm.
00:28:06 I had no idea.
00:28:07 I figured undrafted guy, I'll go in minimally.
00:28:10 I could be on the practice squad
00:28:12 and see what happens from there.
00:28:14 Like I did, honestly, I didn't.
00:28:15 Going to Cleveland, I had no idea.
00:28:16 It's just in my mind, work, make plays in practice
00:28:19 and see what happens.
00:28:20 And I played 11 plays, I think, in three games
00:28:25 in the preseason that year.
00:28:27 And I was thinking, yeah, they're trying to hide me.
00:28:30 They want to hide me.
00:28:31 They want to put me on the practice squad.
00:28:32 They're not going to show much.
00:28:34 And after that third preseason game,
00:28:36 we're walking to the facility
00:28:38 and you see the Turk, he comes out.
00:28:40 'Cause that was, back then, that was like the big cut.
00:28:42 Like you go from however many guys it was,
00:28:44 80 guys or 82 guys down to 65, I think it was,
00:28:49 or something like that.
00:28:49 I don't remember the exact numbers,
00:28:50 but it was a pretty significant 20 guys or something.
00:28:54 And I'm like, he's looking at me
00:28:55 and I'm trying not to make eye contact with him.
00:28:57 And sure enough, he's like, Lance,
00:28:59 Coach Cornell needs to see you upstairs.
00:29:01 And I'm like, all right.
00:29:02 So I go upstairs and he's like, love what you've done.
00:29:06 Obviously, we've got some older guys in the room,
00:29:08 blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:29:08 We'd love to have you on the practice squad.
00:29:10 We've got another week of camp and one more preseason game.
00:29:14 If you can stick around Cleveland, that'd be great.
00:29:16 'Cause we can call you after this week.
00:29:18 I'm like, I'm from two hours down the road.
00:29:20 Like, yeah, okay.
00:29:21 Like, I'll be close enough.
00:29:23 And they play that last preseason game.
00:29:26 And in the back of my mind, I'm thinking,
00:29:29 they're bringing me back.
00:29:29 Like, he told me, he told me.
00:29:32 This is my first experience of coach
00:29:34 like telling you something that maybe he meant,
00:29:37 but then it not really working out.
00:29:39 You know, he might've meant it in that moment.
00:29:40 But as I've kind of went along in the league,
00:29:44 they say a lot of stuff now.
00:29:46 And it's not always truthful.
00:29:48 And maybe it's to protect your heart a little bit.
00:29:52 And maybe it's to protect themselves a little bit
00:29:54 because they don't want guys going crazy on them
00:29:56 for whatever reason.
00:29:59 But so that week went on and sure enough,
00:30:02 I never got a call.
00:30:03 And I'm like, dang, like he told me he was gonna,
00:30:06 he was gonna bring me back, but he didn't.
00:30:09 And at the same time, I'm getting calls
00:30:11 from the Toronto Argonauts of the CFL.
00:30:14 Hey Lance, we've got your rights.
00:30:16 We'd love for you to come play for the Argonauts.
00:30:18 And I'm like, no, Canada's never really
00:30:20 even been on my radar.
00:30:21 But if something doesn't happen for me,
00:30:25 I'd be open to it, you know, kind of thing.
00:30:27 I will reach out to you if I need you type of thing.
00:30:30 And you know, nothing materialized for a couple of weeks.
00:30:34 I went and had a workout with the Texans,
00:30:36 thought I did well, they didn't sign me.
00:30:39 So then I was kind of at a point where I was like,
00:30:40 what am I, like, what am I gonna do?
00:30:41 So I hadn't graduated.
00:30:43 So I called Toledo, some of the coaches say,
00:30:46 hey, I would love to come back and, you know,
00:30:48 kind of be a semi-GA, you know,
00:30:51 'cause I didn't have any money.
00:30:52 So I needed to have money to be able to live
00:30:54 and pay rent and buy food.
00:30:56 So they put me on scholarship and I was back in school
00:31:00 and just working out.
00:31:01 I was coaching, you know, obviously,
00:31:04 during practices and stuff like that,
00:31:06 and doing certain things around the office
00:31:07 where they needed it.
00:31:09 But when I wasn't, I was training.
00:31:11 I was working out, I was running routes,
00:31:13 I was, you know, trying to get my meals in
00:31:15 to make sure that I could maintain,
00:31:16 and just to be ready for the call.
00:31:20 You know, stay ready so you don't have to get ready
00:31:22 type of thing.
00:31:24 Lonnie Walker, it's real.
00:31:27 I mean, it's like you, some guys are,
00:31:32 I'm gonna do this last minute.
00:31:34 I'm not a last minute type of guy.
00:31:36 I'm gonna do this now, and I'm gonna continue to do it,
00:31:40 and I'm gonna do more because I want to be able
00:31:43 to be prepared if and when that opportunity comes.
00:31:45 - Well, I mean, that's the definition of luck, right?
00:31:49 It's being prepared when the opportunity comes.
00:31:51 That's luck.
00:31:53 That's how lucky guys get lucky.
00:31:55 - Yeah, which to me is not even really that lucky.
00:31:59 It's like you're ready.
00:32:01 - Yeah, well, of course, but that's the definition.
00:32:03 Luck is when preparation meets opportunity.
00:32:05 - For sure.
00:32:06 - And the luck part is you have to wait
00:32:07 for that opportunity, but--
00:32:08 - Well, yeah, 'cause you can't give the opportunity
00:32:10 to yourself a lot of times.
00:32:11 - Correct.
00:32:12 - And so I--
00:32:14 - But you can be prepared.
00:32:14 - 100%, and that was like, you know,
00:32:17 control what you can control.
00:32:18 I can't control whether the Browns are gonna call me back.
00:32:22 I can't control whether my childhood favorite team,
00:32:25 the 49ers, believe it or not,
00:32:27 is gonna give me an opportunity,
00:32:28 or if anybody from the 49ers was at the Browns scrimmage
00:32:31 when I had three, you know, like,
00:32:32 you can't control any of that,
00:32:35 but I could always control my effort.
00:32:38 I could always control,
00:32:40 you know, my energy.
00:32:45 What am I putting my energy to?
00:32:47 I can control how prepared I am.
00:32:51 - Your attitude.
00:32:52 - I can control my attitude, for sure.
00:32:54 I could be bitter, I could be angry,
00:32:56 I could be, I can go in the tank
00:32:58 because things aren't going the way
00:32:59 that I think that they should be going,
00:33:02 or I can get back to work,
00:33:06 and I can try to do all the things that I can
00:33:10 to make sure that I'm ready.
00:33:12 Oh, and by the way, I can go to class,
00:33:14 and I can buy groceries for the house.
00:33:16 Like, there's just, like, not limiting myself
00:33:19 to just that football thing,
00:33:21 which I think was helpful for me
00:33:22 in kind of getting over getting cut.
00:33:26 - Yep.
00:33:27 - You know, one of five times in my career that I was cut,
00:33:32 but being back in school,
00:33:35 I think it kind of reinvigorated me.
00:33:38 Like, it got me excited about football again,
00:33:40 'cause I was away for a couple weeks,
00:33:41 and I was in the dumps, and I was like,
00:33:43 you know, what's gonna happen now?
00:33:45 This is what I thought I was gonna do,
00:33:46 and now this is not what I'm doing.
00:33:49 And we were playing, flying out to Fresno, actually,
00:33:54 to play Fresno State on a Tuesday night,
00:33:57 and the plane landed, and one of the coaches came up to me
00:34:02 and said, "Hey, you talked to your agent?"
00:34:04 I said, "Huh?"
00:34:05 He said, "No, I was on the same flight that you were."
00:34:08 You know, he said, "Oh, you talked to your mom?"
00:34:09 I said, "No, I haven't even turned my phone on yet."
00:34:11 You know, he's like, "Call your mom."
00:34:13 So I called my mom, and she's like, "Call your agent."
00:34:15 So I called my agent, and he's like,
00:34:16 "Hey, the Saints wanna bring you in on the practice squad."
00:34:19 And I'm like, "Practice squad?"
00:34:20 I'm like, "Oh, okay, good."
00:34:21 "Is it a workout, and they're gonna sign me?"
00:34:23 He said, "No, they wanna sign you to the practice squad."
00:34:25 I was like, "All right, great, so when do I leave?"
00:34:27 He's like, "Tomorrow at 5 a.m."
00:34:29 And I was like, "Are you serious?"
00:34:30 He's like, "Yeah."
00:34:31 So this was Hurricane Katrina year,
00:34:33 so the Saints were in San Antonio.
00:34:35 So I had to fly from Fresno to San Antonio at 5 a.m.
00:34:38 the next morning with nothing but a backpack.
00:34:41 Like, there was, I didn't have a suitcase,
00:34:43 I didn't know this was happening,
00:34:45 I didn't pack my bags, per se, to go move somewhere.
00:34:50 So I had like one change of clothes and my toiletry bag,
00:34:52 and my Toledo playbook, and that was literally all
00:34:54 that I had when I flew to San Antonio.
00:34:56 Luckily, my guys packed my stuff up for me
00:35:00 and shipped it to me in San Antonio,
00:35:02 but I knew at that time better about how the NFL worked
00:35:08 than when I went into the NFL,
00:35:12 which not that much time had passed,
00:35:14 but I understood now, don't ever get comfortable,
00:35:18 and don't take this opportunity for granted.
00:35:20 So Jim Hazard was the head coach.
00:35:22 He came up to me, I'm touring the facility,
00:35:25 the facility, we were in the Alamo Dome, which was crazy,
00:35:28 and he's like, "Hey, nice to meet you,
00:35:31 "hope you're ready to play DB."
00:35:33 And I was like, "Huh?"
00:35:35 And he said, "Oh yeah."
00:35:36 He said, "Practice squad, you're gonna play DB,
00:35:38 "you're gonna play receiver,
00:35:39 "you're gonna play special teams, you gotta do it all."
00:35:43 I said, "Yes, sir, I got you.
00:35:45 "Whatever you need."
00:35:46 And so that really kinda like,
00:35:48 'cause I was thinking like, "I'm gonna work hard,
00:35:49 "I'm gonna do everything that I need to do,"
00:35:51 but I'd never even thought like,
00:35:52 "Hey, they might put you at DB."
00:35:54 'Cause there's not enough guys.
00:35:58 You know, the roster is 53 guys,
00:36:00 and then back then you could only have eight guys
00:36:02 on a practice squad.
00:36:03 So you've got 61 guys to get through a practice with,
00:36:06 and it's just, there's just not enough offense, defense,
00:36:09 special teamers, like you gotta be able to do everything,
00:36:12 and I did.
00:36:13 And I, for whatever reason, one day,
00:36:17 it might even be my first day,
00:36:18 I was just like, "This is my game day now.
00:36:20 "I'm a practice player, so I'm gonna show up every day
00:36:24 "as if I'm playing on Monday night football,
00:36:26 "and I'm going to kill whoever that guy is across from me."
00:36:31 And that's what I did.
00:36:34 And I really opened up eyes,
00:36:38 and the oohs and ahhs in practice,
00:36:40 and even the veteran guys would come up to me
00:36:42 and be like, "Man, you can ball, you can really play.
00:36:45 "I don't know how you're here,
00:36:46 "but you're gonna be all right."
00:36:48 And so that helped me to just keep doing what I'm doing,
00:36:51 keep doing what I'm doing.
00:36:53 Do a little bit more, because now they've seen it,
00:36:55 now they need to see more.
00:36:57 And I practiced well enough
00:37:00 that I ended up getting activated late in the season.
00:37:03 "Hey, we're gonna sign you to the active roster."
00:37:04 I was like, "Oh man, this is great.
00:37:06 "I'm gonna play."
00:37:08 And sure enough, that first practice that week,
00:37:10 I pulled my hamstring.
00:37:11 I was like, "Oh man, this is horrible."
00:37:15 And, but being recognized in that way
00:37:20 really told me, "Okay, I'm not just
00:37:25 "some practice squad guy, I can play."
00:37:27 It's just a matter of getting that opportunity.
00:37:31 And I said, "Once I get back healthy,
00:37:35 "I'm gonna get back to what I was doing,
00:37:37 "and hopefully they'll let me play."
00:37:38 And I didn't end up playing any games that year.
00:37:42 But my mentality was improved in that,
00:37:47 and when you say my mentality, my confidence was improved.
00:37:51 Not that I lack confidence, but I really didn't know
00:37:54 if anybody was ever gonna take me seriously
00:37:57 and/or give me an opportunity to really show it.
00:37:59 And so we were 3-13 that year,
00:38:05 we were like the bad news bears of the NFL.
00:38:08 And it was a tough year to be a rookie, I would say.
00:38:13 Not that it was tough on me, I wasn't playing,
00:38:17 but just kind of that being my first experience.
00:38:20 And we were kicked out of the Alamo Dome
00:38:24 because of the women's NCAA volleyball tournament,
00:38:27 and they moved our offices,
00:38:29 so our meeting rooms and everything,
00:38:31 which is to a random building in downtown San Antonio.
00:38:34 And then our practice field was seven miles away
00:38:38 at some high school.
00:38:39 Oh, and by the way, our locker room now
00:38:41 is in the underground softball dugout.
00:38:44 This is an NFL team now,
00:38:45 in an underground softball dugout
00:38:47 that's not nicer than this.
00:38:48 This is like, I would love to have something
00:38:51 this nice and fancy.
00:38:52 I was like, "This is the NFL."
00:38:54 No sauna or steam room or hot tubs or cold,
00:39:00 it was like they would pull out
00:39:02 the giant industrial-size garbage cans,
00:39:05 they'd fill them with ice and water.
00:39:06 And that was like our ice tubs.
00:39:08 And I was, no, I came from Toledo,
00:39:11 so it's not like we had the best of the best,
00:39:12 but we had a lot better than what we had
00:39:14 when I got to the NFL.
00:39:16 So it was like, "Dang, this is different."
00:39:18 - You were the Indians from Major League One.
00:39:20 - Dude, we were like, I mean,
00:39:23 when we thought that we could do something great,
00:39:26 win a game, it was just like
00:39:27 everything was pulling against us.
00:39:30 And I don't know, I mean, it was a strange year,
00:39:35 but one that helped me in my development as a player.
00:39:39 And that coaching staff obviously got fired.
00:39:44 They brought Sean Payton in.
00:39:45 Sean Payton immediately was starting a clean shop,
00:39:47 bringing his own guys.
00:39:48 I wasn't one of his guys,
00:39:49 so clearly I'm a little bit nervous.
00:39:51 Am I going to be able to stick around?
00:39:53 And the first thing that I hear from my agent was,
00:39:55 "Yeah, they want you to go to NFL Europe."
00:39:56 And I'm like, "No, I don't want to go
00:39:59 to the NFL Europe.
00:40:00 I want to be here.
00:40:01 I want to learn the playbook.
00:40:02 I want to meet the coaches
00:40:04 and develop a relationship with them.
00:40:06 And oh, we just signed Drew Brees.
00:40:08 Like I got to get on the same page as Drew Brees."
00:40:10 And my agent's like, "Do you want to play for the Saints?"
00:40:12 I said, "Yes."
00:40:13 He said, "You should probably do what they tell you."
00:40:14 I said, "You're right, you're right."
00:40:16 And so end up going to Berlin,
00:40:20 played for the Berlin Thunder that season, got hurt there,
00:40:23 got sent back to the States.
00:40:26 And back then they would send you to Birmingham,
00:40:29 which was basically like the hurt man's camp, basically.
00:40:33 They put you in a hotel,
00:40:35 and then you go to treatment a couple of times a day,
00:40:37 and you could not leave until you got cleared.
00:40:39 Well, I had a dislocated thumb and a cast on.
00:40:43 And so I would go to treatment
00:40:46 and I would do like shoulder rehab.
00:40:49 I'd run on the treadmill.
00:40:50 And then he put, literally, he put ice on top of my cast.
00:40:53 And so I called our trainer.
00:40:54 I said, "Scotty, they're putting ice on my cast, man."
00:40:57 He's like, "What?"
00:40:58 "They're putting ice on my cast."
00:41:00 It's really pointless for me to be here
00:41:03 because I'm not doing anything for my thumb.
00:41:05 And so he's like, "All right, give me a couple of days."
00:41:08 And sure enough, a couple of days later,
00:41:09 he's like, "You got a flight this time, this day.
00:41:12 It will bring you back to New Orleans.
00:41:13 We'll start your rehab, like real rehab on your thumb,
00:41:16 and we'll get you going."
00:41:18 And I went back, and I feel like that was like,
00:41:20 that really, really helped me
00:41:21 to be able to finish the off season with the team
00:41:25 and do the OTAs.
00:41:26 And they built a custom splint for me
00:41:28 so I could practice.
00:41:29 So now I'm showing them the player that I am,
00:41:33 not just the guy that they heard about
00:41:34 from the practice squad last year.
00:41:36 - Who played in Germany.
00:41:37 - Who played, yeah, who was playing.
00:41:39 But I was balling in Germany.
00:41:40 I was leading the league in catches when I got hurt.
00:41:42 So, you know, I wanted to,
00:41:47 I just wanted the opportunity.
00:41:52 However it was gonna come,
00:41:53 I guess really wasn't as important
00:41:55 as hopefully getting that opportunity.
00:41:58 And then in that 2006 preseason, I was balling.
00:42:01 I was making plays every game,
00:42:03 and long punt returns.
00:42:06 And one of the preseason games,
00:42:08 I caught the game-winning touchdown.
00:42:10 So it was like, now the work is starting
00:42:14 to bear a little bit of fruit.
00:42:16 Now while making the team, which I did that year,
00:42:20 wasn't the ultimate goal, it was one of them.
00:42:23 And it was definitely on the list.
00:42:25 And there was really a mental battle
00:42:29 that I fought that year,
00:42:30 because I was like, dang, I finally made the team.
00:42:33 And then I only ended up playing in like four or five games
00:42:36 before they cut me again
00:42:37 and put me back on the practice squad.
00:42:39 And I would say that that time,
00:42:43 while I was still there, while I was still getting paid,
00:42:47 and the potential for there to be another opportunity
00:42:51 was there, it just kind of drove me nuts.
00:42:55 The fact that I was on the team and then I wasn't anymore.
00:42:58 And while I was playing and then I wasn't anymore,
00:43:01 while I knew and I've proven and I've shown
00:43:04 that I can play, I'm not.
00:43:06 Or while there's guys who are playing in front of me
00:43:09 who I think I'm better than,
00:43:11 or who I've proven that I'm better than,
00:43:14 and they're still playing and I'm not,
00:43:16 it really, it got to me, like a lot.
00:43:19 Like in it, I kind of really didn't know how to deal
00:43:24 with that type of emotion.
00:43:25 - So what'd you do?
00:43:26 - I mean, kind of what I always do, did back then,
00:43:33 kind of internalized everything
00:43:36 and kind of use that as fuel to keep working, really.
00:43:41 I mean, I didn't know how to get that emotion out.
00:43:43 I wasn't--
00:43:44 - Did you ever think of quitting?
00:43:47 - No.
00:43:48 - Never entered your mind?
00:43:49 - No, no, I don't think so.
00:43:52 I mean, not during that time.
00:43:54 There were times later in my career where I was like,
00:43:58 eh, I don't know if I want to do this anymore.
00:44:01 But in that moment, no, I wasn't thinking about quitting.
00:44:04 I was more frustrated with how I put myself first,
00:44:09 how I thought that I was being treated.
00:44:13 But having hindsight now,
00:44:18 I realized that there's a whole lot going on in that world.
00:44:23 And the coaches have to make the decisions
00:44:28 that they feel like are the best for everybody.
00:44:31 And it's not all about me.
00:44:34 In my world, it is,
00:44:35 but I'm not the only one in that NFL world
00:44:39 or in that New Orleans Saints world.
00:44:42 So it was hard to not take it personal.
00:44:46 Luckily, I was able to use it to propel my work
00:44:52 as opposed to going into the tank.
00:44:55 - Turned it into fuel.
00:44:57 - I did, I did, I did.
00:44:59 And I feel like that was necessary.
00:45:03 I mean, it kind of goes along with how I've always been.
00:45:07 Okay, put your hard hat back on.
00:45:09 - The theme has been work your ass off,
00:45:12 don't get recruited.
00:45:13 Go to college, work your ass off,
00:45:15 get results, don't get drafted.
00:45:17 Make a team, practice squad, work your ass off, get cut.
00:45:21 Go to Europe, work your ass off, get hurt, get cut.
00:45:24 I mean, there's a theme here,
00:45:25 but you've had the tenacity and the perseverance
00:45:27 to not derail you yet.
00:45:29 - I hadn't made it.
00:45:30 - But that's mental fortitude.
00:45:31 - 100%.
00:45:32 Oh yeah.
00:45:33 - Hey, everybody.
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00:46:01 Hey there, it's your host, Jeff Fenster,
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00:46:53 - I've always been mentally strong,
00:46:58 and I do have to credit a lot of that
00:47:00 to my dad in martial arts.
00:47:01 You know, I've always been smaller.
00:47:06 Like, it's not like I got to the NFL
00:47:08 and all of a sudden I'm the small guy.
00:47:09 Like, so I've always kind of had to overcome
00:47:13 what some may think I am or I might be.
00:47:18 That's always been something.
00:47:20 That's always been a hurdle.
00:47:21 Too small, too short, too slow.
00:47:24 That's always been a hurdle that I've had to overcome.
00:47:26 But I've never used that as an excuse
00:47:29 when something didn't work out.
00:47:30 Ah, it didn't work out in Cleveland
00:47:33 'cause I just, I'm not tall enough.
00:47:35 That's bogus to me.
00:47:37 That's, weak people use those types of excuses.
00:47:42 I'm not going to say weak people use excuses
00:47:44 'cause we all have an excuse every now and again,
00:47:47 but I just feel like that would have been super weak of me
00:47:50 to say like, oh, you know,
00:47:52 yeah, Cleveland didn't like me.
00:47:53 They like so-and-so 'cause he's taller.
00:47:55 Like, nah.
00:47:55 - Sure. - It didn't work out.
00:47:57 And that's okay.
00:47:58 You know, it's, there's not,
00:48:00 it's not always up to us to dictate
00:48:04 how everything goes in our lives.
00:48:07 I feel like it's important to be able to adjust,
00:48:10 to be able to learn from, okay, it didn't work out.
00:48:17 What can I do better?
00:48:18 What can I do this time that I did not do last time
00:48:22 to help me stay?
00:48:24 And I tell guys all the time,
00:48:25 like in training, college guys, high school guys,
00:48:28 it's hard as hell to make it to the NFL.
00:48:32 But guess what?
00:48:32 It's harder to stay.
00:48:34 - What does the NFL stand for, not for long?
00:48:36 - Not for long.
00:48:37 Yeah, I mean, the average career for an NFL player
00:48:39 is less than three years.
00:48:41 - You played 10.
00:48:42 - I played 11.
00:48:43 - 11?
00:48:44 - 11 years, nine in New Orleans,
00:48:46 one in Pittsburgh, one in Detroit.
00:48:48 Yeah, so it's like you--
00:48:50 - You've had basically five careers.
00:48:52 - Yeah, almost.
00:48:54 - Yeah.
00:48:54 - Yeah, I mean, it's hard to get there, for sure.
00:48:59 - So one of my favorite moments of you in the NFL
00:49:03 was actually one of your dances.
00:49:05 - Okay.
00:49:06 - That you got a lot of pub for back in,
00:49:09 back then media wasn't like it is today.
00:49:11 We didn't have Instagram.
00:49:13 That celebration, was that just that culmination
00:49:18 of all those times you fell down the mountain?
00:49:20 - Which one?
00:49:22 - Well, the main one, the one that you got,
00:49:25 didn't you get an award for it?
00:49:27 Your end zone dance, it was like--
00:49:29 - The Key and Peele?
00:49:30 - Yeah.
00:49:31 - Well, I don't think I got an award.
00:49:32 I should get an award for that
00:49:33 'cause that was the first one and now everybody does it.
00:49:36 - Fair.
00:49:37 - But you know what, that was 10 years ago, that was 2013.
00:49:40 And I won't say that was like the combination of everything.
00:49:44 I will say my first one was, 2007, Seattle.
00:49:47 - I don't know if they saw that one.
00:49:48 - 2007, we're playing at Seattle,
00:49:50 it's Sunday night football, we're 0-4.
00:49:52 And now this is my third year.
00:49:56 My first career touchdown, like an end around.
00:50:00 And I just kind of like put my arms,
00:50:01 it wasn't a dance, I just kind of put my arms up.
00:50:04 Like there's like a, you know,
00:50:06 if you don't know anybody, you're looking like,
00:50:08 oh, he's saying he's great.
00:50:09 But to me, it was kind of like, finally.
00:50:13 Like, and it was also kind of a shout out to my grandfather
00:50:16 who had just passed like a week before that.
00:50:19 And it was a very, very emotional moment
00:50:23 and one that I'll always, always remember.
00:50:26 And one that will be one of my favorite touchdowns ever
00:50:29 just because of what it signified.
00:50:31 And, but to that 2013 one,
00:50:35 that Kian Peale one, by far my favorite.
00:50:37 - Yeah, mine too.
00:50:38 - Maybe not by far my favorite.
00:50:39 I would say that the first one was my favorite
00:50:41 and this one is like a close second, like one beat.
00:50:43 But it, you know, Kian Peale,
00:50:45 one of the greatest sketch comedy shows ever.
00:50:49 And we were all big fans of the show
00:50:52 and not one time, people don't believe this,
00:50:56 but not one time did Kenny Stills and I say,
00:50:59 hey, in this game, at this moment,
00:51:03 we're gonna do this touchdown dance.
00:51:04 Now there was, you know, we had conversations about,
00:51:07 man, that would be pretty funny to do in a game.
00:51:09 But that was it.
00:51:10 Like there was no choreography, there was no real plan.
00:51:14 And sure enough, I happened to score,
00:51:17 he happened to be right there.
00:51:19 And I didn't even see him at first.
00:51:20 I was gonna do it no matter what.
00:51:21 I was like, I'm gonna do it.
00:51:22 I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna do it.
00:51:23 And he happened to be there and it like,
00:51:25 it was like the most perfect,
00:51:28 for those of you who don't know,
00:51:29 it's the Kian Peale three pumps touchdown celebration.
00:51:32 We got penalized, unsportsmanlike, 15 yard penalty.
00:51:37 And so Coach Peyton is pissed.
00:51:40 And then Tuesday, which is, you know,
00:51:44 two days after the game,
00:51:45 we have a nice $7,800 fine letter each in our lockers
00:51:50 to which, you know, you could try to appeal,
00:51:53 but I mean, how do you appeal?
00:51:54 You did something illegal.
00:51:56 Yeah, but to this day, it's to me,
00:52:01 it was worth it because one,
00:52:03 the next day Jordan Peale posted a t-shirt.
00:52:09 He was wearing a black t-shirt,
00:52:11 like, you know, kind of like a selfie style picture
00:52:14 with me on his shirt doing a three pump stance.
00:52:18 And from there, one of my best friends, Eric Romer,
00:52:22 he's like, hey man, I've got some contacts
00:52:23 at the Kian Peale show.
00:52:24 And I like, I know one of the producers,
00:52:26 maybe we can get you on an episode.
00:52:27 I was like, man, that would be awesome.
00:52:29 Like, I'd be a great actor.
00:52:32 And sure enough, they like,
00:52:36 hey, we're going to get you on a show,
00:52:38 you know, this coming off season.
00:52:40 And I did one sketch and it was one of the coolest
00:52:45 experiences I've ever had in my life
00:52:47 to be able to be on set with those guys
00:52:50 who I believe are comedic geniuses and watch them work.
00:52:54 Like, it's cool to see some of the best at what they do,
00:52:59 do what they do and do it so easily.
00:53:03 I mean, we would, like a lot of what we did,
00:53:05 we were in a big, like 15 passenger van.
00:53:09 And when we would have a little break,
00:53:13 these guys would rehearse other sketches.
00:53:18 So like, they would shoot a whole season
00:53:20 in like two to three weeks.
00:53:21 And they would do like five to seven sketches a day.
00:53:24 And so like, here I am, like nervous with my cue cards,
00:53:28 like trying to remember my little, you know,
00:53:30 four or five lines that I had.
00:53:32 And these guys off the top of their head
00:53:34 are rehearsing seven, eight, nine different sketches,
00:53:37 like this.
00:53:38 And they're like, hey, why don't you try it this way?
00:53:41 And you know, say it like this.
00:53:42 And they would do it and the whole van would be like
00:53:44 ready to just erupt.
00:53:46 And then they would start laughing
00:53:46 and everybody would start laughing.
00:53:47 Like, okay, it's okay to laugh.
00:53:48 But like, they were just, it just was,
00:53:51 it was so easy to them.
00:53:53 And I was like, man, this is like,
00:53:54 this is one of the coolest experiences I've ever had.
00:53:58 And I just, for somebody who is pretty outgoing
00:54:02 and can play football in front of millions of people
00:54:05 and not blink, the first read that we had on shoot day,
00:54:10 I was like, you probably could have checked me
00:54:14 into a mental place.
00:54:15 'Cause I was just like so scared, nervous, sweating.
00:54:20 And like, we're reading our lines.
00:54:22 And then after my first line, Jordan's like, stop.
00:54:25 And I'm like, oh, like, what did I do?
00:54:27 Like, I suck.
00:54:28 And he's like, thank God, Lance can act.
00:54:30 And I was like, I'm good.
00:54:33 Like, the nerves just went away.
00:54:35 And like, I was like, I can just do what I just did
00:54:37 and just do it again and again.
00:54:39 I mean, which you do, you do it all day basically.
00:54:42 But that was like, that $7,800 that I gave up
00:54:47 was well worth that experience.
00:54:50 - And you didn't win an award for that dance.
00:54:53 Wasn't there some best dance?
00:54:55 I swear you did.
00:54:56 - No, I mean, maybe on like social media or something,
00:54:59 but I don't have an award at my house
00:55:01 for best touchdown, end zone celebration
00:55:03 or anything like that.
00:55:04 But yeah, I'm a sad guy now.
00:55:08 I get residual checks to my house,
00:55:10 which sometimes they're $8.13, but--
00:55:15 - Hey, you're a professional actor.
00:55:17 (laughing)
00:55:18 - If you say so.
00:55:19 - That's the difference.
00:55:21 You said it, you're a sad guy now.
00:55:22 - True.
00:55:23 - I mean, NFL retiree, professional actor.
00:55:27 Man, the list is getting long.
00:55:30 - Yeah, I don't know about that.
00:55:31 - But I mean, your post-career,
00:55:32 you've applied the same mindset, mental fortitude
00:55:35 and approach to everything you do.
00:55:37 I mean, I met you obviously playing in pickup basketball,
00:55:40 which when I play a sport, it's always like,
00:55:43 hey, I'm gonna be the hardest worker there.
00:55:44 And you always challenged me in that department.
00:55:46 So naturally we had this mutual respect
00:55:49 and friendship. - Why do something
00:55:51 if you're not gonna go hard at it?
00:55:54 To me, I just, I don't like that.
00:55:57 I don't like that mentality.
00:55:58 It doesn't matter if I'm pulling weeds,
00:56:03 I'm trying to be the best at pulling weeds
00:56:06 or cleaning the dishes or vacuuming the floor,
00:56:10 or if it's on the basketball court.
00:56:11 Like I'm gonna go hard at everything that I do.
00:56:14 That's just how I am.
00:56:15 And I'm not gonna make excuses.
00:56:19 That's kind of how I've lived my life.
00:56:23 And that's what kind of got me to be able to do the things
00:56:26 that I've done.
00:56:27 So why would I get rid of that
00:56:30 once I'm done playing football?
00:56:32 I just, I feel like it's ingrained in me.
00:56:38 It's a part of who I am.
00:56:40 And I don't think anything would ever stop that.
00:56:44 There's obviously been a little bit of time in between,
00:56:47 now and when I've stopped playing football,
00:56:50 but it's been good to kind of experience the things
00:56:56 that I have in scouting, dabbling in coaching,
00:57:01 as well as being in the media now,
00:57:04 working as an analyst for one of the stations
00:57:06 in New Orleans, as well as doing some digital media stuff
00:57:09 for another company in New Orleans.
00:57:12 And I tell my wife all the time,
00:57:14 I don't have a nine to five job,
00:57:15 but I work hard at everything.
00:57:17 'Cause I want to be great at all the things that I do.
00:57:22 - Well, earlier you'd mentioned champion's mind.
00:57:28 What does that mean?
00:57:30 - I think a champion's mindset to me
00:57:34 doesn't necessarily mean championship trophy,
00:57:41 doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with sports.
00:57:45 To me, a champion is a successful person.
00:57:49 Obviously I love to play on words
00:57:51 with me being a former athlete,
00:57:53 but we've talked a lot about the mindset
00:57:56 and it's a workman's mindset,
00:58:03 the hard hat mindset.
00:58:07 It's about developing if you don't have it
00:58:10 or having confidence, self-confidence.
00:58:13 It's about figuring out why you're doing what you're doing.
00:58:18 And there's a bunch of different things
00:58:24 that I go into in the program.
00:58:25 But I think we've talked about a lot of it.
00:58:29 If you don't have that self-confidence,
00:58:33 you don't think you can do it,
00:58:35 just tell yourself you can do it.
00:58:37 A lot of it starts there.
00:58:39 Fake it till you make it is just not some silly quote.
00:58:42 It works.
00:58:44 And sometimes people just need a little help.
00:58:50 And I think that being able to share that with people
00:58:54 is big.
00:58:56 And like I said, I'm trying to find the time to write a book
00:59:01 like you did.
00:59:03 - Just did that, yeah.
00:59:04 - Like you did.
00:59:05 Yeah, there's a lot of things that go into it,
00:59:09 but I think it's a mentality.
00:59:11 It's the right type of mentality.
00:59:13 And I'm not saying that you can't be successful
00:59:16 without having all of these things,
00:59:18 but I think having some of these things
00:59:21 will help you to potentially be successful in your life
00:59:24 in whatever that is.
00:59:26 - Well, success to me is formulaic.
00:59:27 And the definition of that formula for you
00:59:30 is clearly demonstrated success
00:59:32 because all of the roadblocks and challenges
00:59:34 that you encountered
00:59:36 that could have been the end of the story.
00:59:38 Oh yeah, I almost made it to the NFL.
00:59:39 I went this far and I got cut.
00:59:41 Or I almost played college football.
00:59:42 I went this far, but I didn't get that.
00:59:44 - I hate those stories.
00:59:45 - I do too.
00:59:47 But those stories are what people struggle with
00:59:49 because what they don't understand is
00:59:52 most humans aren't the six foot five, run four three,
00:59:57 gonna be a number three overall pick,
00:59:59 Braylon Edwards, wide receiver for the Browns.
01:00:01 They're not.
01:00:03 Most of us are somewhere around,
01:00:06 I mean, the average height in America is five nine for a man.
01:00:09 We're both average height.
01:00:10 So if you're looking at sport, sports is one example,
01:00:14 but you're transferring it beyond the playing field.
01:00:17 I mean, you're now, I mean, where you are in your story is,
01:00:21 I mean, you're about to be a sports agent
01:00:23 and go full circle and now hit this from the business side
01:00:27 and use that same hard hat approach, that same mindset,
01:00:29 that same championship mind to accomplish it.
01:00:32 And I am beyond confident that it's not a matter of
01:00:36 if it's when you have a successful sports agency practice.
01:00:40 And I'm sure you have that same mindset as well.
01:00:42 - 100%.
01:00:43 And it's like, I have conversations with my former agent
01:00:46 about why, why are you doing this?
01:00:49 Why do you wanna be an agent?
01:00:50 I said, well, there's a number of different reasons,
01:00:51 but for me, it's not about collecting a paycheck.
01:00:56 While that's important,
01:00:57 and I think I will make a lot of money
01:01:00 'cause I'm gonna represent a bunch of great players,
01:01:03 I want to be able to have an impact
01:01:06 that goes beyond the dollars,
01:01:08 that goes beyond even the field.
01:01:09 I lived the life, so I feel like I've got
01:01:13 a great wealth of knowledge to be able to give my guys.
01:01:18 And it's like every phase that they will go through,
01:01:23 I went through.
01:01:24 So I'm gonna be able to give them
01:01:26 a whole different perspective
01:01:27 than 90 plus percent of the other agents
01:01:30 who've never put on a uniform.
01:01:34 And that to me is like, that's important.
01:01:37 That's a part of what my pitch will be, clearly,
01:01:41 but that is not gonna be it.
01:01:43 Like, I think it's bigger than just getting guys signed
01:01:46 and getting guys drafted.
01:01:48 I want guys to be able to use me all the time
01:01:52 whenever they need me,
01:01:53 but I also want to be able to help them
01:01:56 maybe not go through some of the things
01:01:58 that I went through when I was done.
01:02:00 I didn't have a plan, 'cause obviously,
01:02:02 I didn't think I was gonna retire when I did.
01:02:04 So to be able to put things in place
01:02:07 while you're still playing,
01:02:09 think about, first of all,
01:02:10 think about what you would like to do outside of football.
01:02:13 Now, how can we turn that into a career?
01:02:14 Or how can we turn that into a way
01:02:16 for you to make money while you're playing football?
01:02:18 So then when you retire,
01:02:19 you've got something going on that allows you
01:02:23 to either A, not have to work a job,
01:02:27 or B, have something that fuels you.
01:02:30 And there's so many different reasons
01:02:35 why guys have mental issues when they're done,
01:02:38 whether it's lack of money, they run out of money,
01:02:43 they have nothing that they can kind of go to
01:02:46 because all they've ever known is football,
01:02:49 people aren't really quick to hire guys
01:02:52 who haven't graduated, have no job skills,
01:02:55 and really don't know anything other than coaching,
01:02:58 playing, maybe scouting, training.
01:03:03 So I think it's,
01:03:06 the play is to be able to obviously represent guys
01:03:11 and potentially someday have my own practice
01:03:14 or my own agency, but as well offer full service.
01:03:18 We're offering support for financial services.
01:03:21 We're offering support for guys who are done, right?
01:03:24 We said it, less than three years.
01:03:25 You know, this guy is going to have a 15-year career,
01:03:27 but this guy is going to have a four-year career.
01:03:29 What after that?
01:03:30 There's benefits that the NFL has for you
01:03:33 that a lot of times players either A, don't know about,
01:03:36 B, don't think they can qualify,
01:03:37 or C, don't ever get to the point
01:03:39 where they apply for these things.
01:03:42 That money's already there.
01:03:44 It's not like these owners are having
01:03:46 to come out of pocket extra, you know?
01:03:47 So it's like, I'm going to,
01:03:49 not only am I going to talk to my guys about it
01:03:52 or push them to get it, I'm going to help them get it.
01:03:55 You know, so there's a bunch of different things
01:03:57 that I think I'm going to do that are going to help guys.
01:04:01 And I mean, I'm obviously passionate about it.
01:04:04 Like I lived it and this is a way for me
01:04:06 to stay involved in the game,
01:04:08 to be able to remain here in beautiful San Diego,
01:04:11 to be able to spend the time with my family
01:04:13 that I've loved so much since I retired.
01:04:15 And it's kind of funny how it worked out.
01:04:17 Like my oldest was a baby in my last season
01:04:20 and going into that off season, I was kind of like,
01:04:23 I really want to be away from her that much, you know?
01:04:26 And that played a big role in me retiring when I did,
01:04:31 'cause I would have been,
01:04:32 I was in Atlanta for training camp in 2016.
01:04:35 I was like, man, this is my fourth team in four years.
01:04:38 You know, my daughter's getting ready to turn one.
01:04:40 Like, is this really what we want to do
01:04:42 is picking up and moving every year?
01:04:44 And then I just was like, no,
01:04:46 like I want to be there for my family.
01:04:48 I want to spend time.
01:04:49 And so this being an agent allows me to stay here,
01:04:52 stay present, be involved in everything
01:04:54 that they've got going on.
01:04:56 You know, obviously there's going to be
01:04:57 a little bit of travel involved and associated with,
01:05:00 you know, what I've got to do as far as the career goes,
01:05:02 but coaching, you know, would not have allowed me to do that.
01:05:07 Scouting would not allow me to do that.
01:05:09 And this will, and it keeps me involved in the game.
01:05:12 I mean, I love the game.
01:05:14 I owe so much.
01:05:15 I'm not sitting here, obviously, with you
01:05:17 if I was not, you know, good at football.
01:05:20 So to be able to give back to the game,
01:05:23 and to me even more importantly,
01:05:24 to be able to give back to the guys
01:05:26 that are up and coming to me is important.
01:05:28 - So I have one last question for you.
01:05:31 NIL, good or bad?
01:05:32 - Love it, love it.
01:05:34 Now, I think it's kind of crazy
01:05:35 that there's not really many rules.
01:05:37 I think the players should have been getting paid
01:05:41 since the beginning of time.
01:05:42 I'm, as a fan, I'm not showing up to an Alabama game
01:05:47 to watch Coach Saban.
01:05:49 I'm just not.
01:05:50 Sure, he has a lot to do with the product
01:05:52 that is rolled out on a football field,
01:05:54 but he's not playing.
01:05:56 So I've felt like the guys that are bringing in the money
01:06:00 to be able to pay the coach, and everybody else there,
01:06:03 'cause usually football is funding
01:06:05 all of the other athletic programs,
01:06:07 unless you go to a big basketball school,
01:06:09 which I still think football's making more,
01:06:11 just because of how big football is.
01:06:13 I think the kids should have been able
01:06:17 to monetize their name.
01:06:19 I mean, my jersey was being sold
01:06:22 in the school store at Toledo while I was there.
01:06:25 I didn't make a dollar from that.
01:06:27 I loved seeing the fans in the stands wearing number one,
01:06:30 but it was like, dang, people are buying that jersey,
01:06:34 and I'm not able to get any of that money.
01:06:36 So I love the fact that they're able to get paid.
01:06:39 I would imagine over time,
01:06:42 they'll kind of figure out how to more,
01:06:47 the rules as far as what people can and cannot do,
01:06:51 and all of that, but I feel like even beyond that,
01:06:53 the school should be paying everybody.
01:06:56 - Well, in a way, they are.
01:06:57 I mean, scholarship is getting paid, getting free education.
01:07:00 I mean, I'm about to pay my daughter's college tuition.
01:07:02 Let me tell you, that ain't free.
01:07:04 - No, I understand that,
01:07:05 but the money that they've got to pay for a scholarship
01:07:09 fails in comparison to the money
01:07:10 that the football program is bringing in.
01:07:12 - Absolutely.
01:07:12 - And that, to me, especially at a big school,
01:07:16 like that is, you know,
01:07:19 you know, there's not any other enterprise.
01:07:25 Now, I know it's not free enterprise,
01:07:26 but there's not any other enterprise
01:07:28 where you've got somebody who's working for you
01:07:31 and not being paid.
01:07:33 - Fair.
01:07:34 - So yeah, it's a,
01:07:36 I feel like it's a very nuanced conversation,
01:07:38 and there's not really a lot of good information to go on
01:07:43 'cause it hasn't been that long,
01:07:46 but I do love the fact that players are able to capitalize
01:07:49 on their name, image, and likeness.
01:07:50 I think that's important.
01:07:52 - Yeah, I mean, it's definitely
01:07:53 revolutionized collegiate sports.
01:07:55 It's changed the whole game.
01:07:56 I think it's gonna bring more athletes back
01:07:58 and stay in college longer
01:07:59 'cause they finally can get paid.
01:08:00 It's gonna strengthen the product over the long run.
01:08:02 It's gonna allow for guys to mature, and girls,
01:08:06 to mature inside of college sports
01:08:09 before they have to go and make money as a pro.
01:08:11 They get to do that now, so I think it's a good thing.
01:08:14 I'm excited for 'em.
01:08:15 I'm excited for your journey, man,
01:08:16 watching you now destroy and kill the sports agency world
01:08:20 and see you demonstrate the same level of success
01:08:23 you've done in football as a dad, as a husband,
01:08:26 as a friend on a basketball court.
01:08:28 - I was gonna say as a hooper, yeah.
01:08:30 - I'll get there, I'll get there slowly.
01:08:32 I'll get there slowly, but it's been awesome to watch, man.
01:08:34 It's been awesome to build this friendship over the years
01:08:36 and have you part of the Everbold story
01:08:38 and have you here in this studio
01:08:39 and all the time and commitment you've always given
01:08:41 to me and to the brand
01:08:43 and to the companies you're involved with.
01:08:45 Proud to know you, dude.
01:08:47 Excited to watch your journey.
01:08:48 And for everyone who's watching,
01:08:50 how best can they follow your story
01:08:52 and get ready to buy that book when it's gonna be written?
01:08:54 - Yeah, yeah, for sure. - 'Cause you put it out there,
01:08:55 so we're expecting the champion's mind.
01:08:57 - So, I mean, that's in the infancy stages.
01:09:02 But yeah, at Lance Moore's 16 on AllSocial,
01:09:06 my wife, who is an organizer by trade
01:09:11 but also an influencer on social.
01:09:13 - She's a badass.
01:09:15 - Casey.moore_.
01:09:16 And yeah, I mean, it's cool to be,
01:09:21 obviously to be here in San Diego where I'm a foreigner,
01:09:25 but to establish relationships like these
01:09:27 that go beyond just the basketball court
01:09:30 and into personal ones that are mutually beneficial.
01:09:39 Like I said, we're similar mentality-wise,
01:09:42 and I think it's awesome to be able to keep
01:09:46 similar-minded people around, goal-oriented people.
01:09:50 And yeah, I'm excited for the future.
01:09:53 I'm excited for the future of Everbowl,
01:09:54 and I'm just happy to be here, for sure.
01:09:57 - Well, dude, thank you, man.
01:09:58 This was awesome.
01:09:58 Thank you so much for listening.
01:10:00 If you're looking to level up
01:10:01 your relationship capital game,
01:10:03 then take a minute and text the word JEFF to 33777
01:10:07 for a free copy of my Network to Millions playbook.
01:10:11 The link will also be provided in the show notes below.
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