Former Gonzaga guard David Pendergraft looks back at his favorite memories playing with Adam Morrison, guarding Stephen Curry in the NCAA Tournament and Derrick Rose's athleticism at Memphis
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Gonzaga Nation, talking Zags, episode nine.
00:09 Your two hosts, Dan Dickow, Adam Morrison.
00:11 We've got another special guest.
00:14 Mo, it seems like we've had a bunch of these,
00:15 but he's a former teammate of yours.
00:17 I'll let you go ahead and do the honors
00:19 and introduce him and start things off.
00:21 - David Pendergraft from Brewster.
00:24 I had the lucky situation where this guy
00:28 set a lot of screens for me.
00:31 And I probably didn't deserve it,
00:32 but I played two years with him.
00:35 Kind of went through the AAU stuff
00:37 a little bit together too as well.
00:39 So welcome to the show, man.
00:41 - Yeah, pleasure having me.
00:42 - Absolutely, Brewster, Washington.
00:45 I know it as the home of Johnny Gevers,
00:47 who was a teammate of mine for a year
00:49 before he played baseball,
00:50 but more importantly, maybe Gamble Sands Golf Course.
00:53 I know Mo's a golfer, we played there together before,
00:55 but tell us about basketball and Brewster
00:59 and how you got to Gonzaga,
01:00 because that doesn't probably happen all that much.
01:03 - No, no, it doesn't happen too often.
01:05 I mean, every once in a while,
01:07 there's some good players that come out of there.
01:09 I mean, notably Joe Harris from Chelan,
01:11 which is 20 minutes away, right?
01:12 I mean, he's having a great NBA career.
01:14 Michael Taylor was from Brewster,
01:18 low D1 guy that transferred to D3,
01:20 he's D3 player of the year, right?
01:21 So every once in a while, there's a couple,
01:23 but Brewster has a great tradition.
01:25 Gevers family, as you mentioned,
01:26 kind of with Johnny and his family,
01:30 that's who owns Gamble Sands,
01:32 and doing that aspect,
01:33 but they are a big sports family
01:35 and support that school, that area, tremendously.
01:39 So it is ingrained.
01:41 If you guys have ever been there,
01:42 there's not much else to do.
01:44 So as you get through, I mean, when you have a good class,
01:47 but we were very lucky for an A school at that time
01:52 and playing, we had a lot of talent together.
01:55 I think if you take all the sports and do that,
01:59 I think we had six or seven D1 athletes in an A school.
02:03 - That's crazy.
02:03 - Playing basketball.
02:06 So it was a kind of special group.
02:08 - Just real quick on that.
02:09 Is this true?
02:10 Don't they, the Gevers family or the town,
02:12 pays for everybody's admission to games
02:16 at the start of the year,
02:17 so you can just show up and go for free?
02:19 - They might do that now.
02:20 - I think that's what I've heard.
02:21 I think that's the coolest tradition.
02:22 - Yeah, get community involved.
02:24 - Just come to the games.
02:25 We'll pay for it.
02:26 It's awesome.
02:27 - And they just remodeled the whole gym.
02:28 And so that was a big deal of making it more viewable
02:31 and doing it.
02:32 But I mean, basketball is a huge deal there.
02:34 I mean, when I played too,
02:36 the girls won three state championships.
02:37 - The girls are good too at that site too.
02:39 - Wow.
02:40 If I remember correctly, you committed super early,
02:44 like freshman year, end of freshman year.
02:46 What was that like?
02:47 'Cause a lot of your outliers will get recruited that early,
02:51 but normally it picks up your junior year.
02:53 - Oh, it's a funny,
02:54 the funny thing about that is even committing early,
02:57 they weren't the first school to offer me,
02:59 but just coming and feeling at home,
03:03 knowing some of the guys with playing AU up with Sean
03:08 and just, I don't know, it felt like the right fit.
03:12 So instead of waiting,
03:14 it turned out into something a little unique too,
03:16 'cause I committed early and helped on recruiting trips
03:19 of guys that were older than me.
03:20 (laughing)
03:22 Whether it was Derek or whomever else, right?
03:24 I mean, it was a little unique situation.
03:27 I was there for, oddly enough, Brandon Roy's.
03:29 I mean, it was different.
03:31 - Yeah.
03:32 - Quick caveat too, David averaged like 30 in high school.
03:34 So like, he was getting buckets.
03:37 And I remember when he was committed and I committed,
03:39 I was like, I better get my game going
03:42 because we're both wings and you know what I'm saying?
03:44 So there was a friendly, healthy rivalry,
03:47 but it was like, hey man,
03:49 there's two pretty good tall wings that are coming in
03:53 ready to score the basketball.
03:54 So it was always fun.
03:54 We, quick story, I gotta tell this one.
03:57 Remember when we kind of,
03:58 Riesman and Tyler Meyer, which I love.
04:01 - Those two, yeah.
04:02 They were a little old.
04:03 - Tyler's great.
04:04 And Tyler has a great AU program right now.
04:06 And I mean that in the Valley.
04:07 He does a great job with kids.
04:09 And, but we, remember we played them in high school,
04:13 two on two, and it was when the old court
04:14 and Coach Few used to sit there and watch.
04:17 And I think we won like seven games in a row against them,
04:19 two high school kids.
04:21 And then they ended up transferring.
04:22 So, and that's not a knock,
04:25 but it was just funny because we were just like,
04:27 lay up, you know, like just, yeah.
04:29 - Well, I remember the old, the kennel,
04:31 because like the coaches,
04:33 you're not supposed to watch workouts and open gym,
04:36 but you would always look up,
04:37 they'd be peering down and watching everything.
04:38 And then you're done playing open gym in the fall
04:42 and they come down and they just start
04:43 picking everything apart.
04:45 Why'd you do that?
04:46 Why'd you, who came up with these teams?
04:48 Yeah, so you've seen Fuey kind of the progression.
04:52 What's your take on his evolution as a coach?
04:57 - Yeah.
04:58 I mean, obviously starting off with having
05:00 an incredible respect for what,
05:03 who he is and what has been built.
05:07 I'm to sit here and do this in the WCC
05:08 in Spokane, Washington,
05:10 and going through and you always see it,
05:12 but one of the new ones watching USC is 16 straight wins
05:16 against Pac-12.
05:17 - Yeah.
05:18 - I mean, come on.
05:20 - That's crazy.
05:20 - It's impressive.
05:21 So with that, one thing I will say is
05:24 what we refer to my years as kind of the dark years
05:28 when he was coaching and for numerous of reasons
05:32 and everybody from, you know, the players we had to,
05:35 you know, just what everyone goes through doing that.
05:37 But, you know, to have someone with his success,
05:40 even at that time, right.
05:42 And I mean, what else do you want?
05:44 I mean, I get you can go, but I mean,
05:46 what he brought GU to, I mean,
05:47 having national player of the years,
05:49 I mean, just massive success at that time.
05:52 But he took it at, you know, 50 years old
05:55 or late 40s, what he was and said,
05:57 "Hey, I got to take a mental change."
05:59 And went and really adapted to servant leadership.
06:03 And you see him making that change
06:05 and then taking the program to even the next level.
06:08 I mean, that is, I have such a respect for that, right.
06:12 To where you don't sit in your laurels,
06:14 you don't back off and he's like, "No, no, no.
06:16 "I need to personally make a change on how I do things."
06:19 And just the rewards that come off of that
06:22 are just incredible.
06:23 - I think that's an unbelievable point.
06:24 You mentioned the servant leadership
06:26 'cause I've talked about it
06:27 and I think Adam and I have talked about it.
06:28 Like the evolution of offense goes from one thing
06:30 he was comfortable with,
06:32 understanding, realizing there was better things to do
06:34 that would fit the program and doing it in that regard.
06:36 - And fit the players at the time.
06:37 - Yeah. - Yeah.
06:38 - I mean, it's, you know,
06:40 obviously Tommy Lloyd gets some of that credit
06:42 with the offensive part,
06:43 but like Fuey never was as engaging as he is now.
06:47 And you can be comfortable in your own success
06:50 and be fine like you said,
06:52 but he looked in the mirror and said,
06:54 "If I wanna get higher level players
06:56 "or different type of recruits,
06:58 "I'm gonna have to coach them a little bit different."
07:01 And we're not saying he was a Tom Izzo,
07:03 Scream at you, Frank Martin, none of that.
07:05 But he had to be a little bit more open with himself
07:08 and he made that change.
07:09 And I've seen it obviously broadcasting
07:11 in the last six years or whatever I've been doing it.
07:14 Before that being a GA, it's like,
07:15 wow, man, he's way different.
07:17 (laughing)
07:18 Some of the people are like, "Really?"
07:19 I'm like, yeah, man, I barely talked to the guy.
07:22 - For sure. - You know, but now he's,
07:25 which is great because it is hard
07:28 when you're winning 25 games a year
07:29 and going to the NCAA tournament,
07:31 like why do you have to change?
07:33 You know what I'm saying?
07:34 It's so easy to just, like you said,
07:36 rest on your laurels and kind of get into a groove,
07:40 but you're not gonna take a next jump.
07:42 - Exactly, I mean, he easily could cash it in
07:44 and read your own press, right?
07:45 - Yeah.
07:46 - You were kind of involved with the athletic department
07:50 in a number of capacities
07:52 before you got into outside business.
07:55 What have you seen from now being an outside businessman
07:58 about how the athletic department has changed?
08:00 Because they're talking about switching leagues,
08:03 they've built the practice facility.
08:05 I mean, they're doing an addition, I think,
08:07 to the baseball stadium now.
08:09 It just continues to explode with what they're doing.
08:13 - Yeah, I mean, I think you guys covered a lot of just,
08:16 at a higher level, what athletics or college athletics is
08:19 a couple episodes ago,
08:20 which I think he has done a tremendous job at.
08:22 But with that, I think what Chris Danford's taken on,
08:27 where it already is and saying,
08:29 "Hey, we're still at this kind of crossroads of a time
08:32 of what is our identity, how do we keep competing,
08:35 how do we keep moving forward?"
08:36 And the great thing is Coach Fu is heavily engaged
08:40 in that too, of how we move it.
08:43 But even past that and reflected back on the years,
08:47 we do a great job bringing guys into the feeling
08:52 of what Gonzaga is.
08:53 I mean, everyone talks about the family,
08:55 everyone talks about this, but I mean,
08:56 there's a reason why X players are so heavily involved.
09:00 There's a reason why, it just feels different, right?
09:03 And so, as the needed boosters, I mean,
09:07 a lot of those guys are part of that family.
09:10 I mean, the success couldn't happen without them.
09:13 I mean, it doesn't, it flat would not happen.
09:15 I mean, it takes that whole collective group
09:19 to make the magic happen.
09:21 And so part of that and being a part of that
09:24 is everyone from Coach Hertz, getting that on to
09:29 Chris Johnson and Jared Hertz and everybody
09:31 continuing that process on, the magic is still happening.
09:36 - You know, we have to give a little bit of context
09:38 to some people might understand.
09:39 Obviously we're a private school, so like,
09:42 we have to raise, what is it, 85, 90% of the money
09:45 that we get, we don't get state money.
09:47 So the people that are watching is athletic giving,
09:50 which you were in before, is so important
09:52 and winning is so important for people to still feel good,
09:56 but you always have to compete against schools
09:58 that get state money or have large endowments
10:02 with obviously a bigger alumni base.
10:04 So you're always fighting that uphill battle
10:06 and then you can always go, well, we're pretty good,
10:09 do we really need to have these facilities?
10:11 And so it's really difficult.
10:12 I mean, like building a PAX facility,
10:15 was it 30 million, 35 million, what it was,
10:17 was unbelievable and Pat and Sandy Volkler
10:20 were a big part of that, Zeke Brower, a big part of that.
10:22 But like, if we don't have the culture that we have,
10:26 those type of people wouldn't be so generous as well.
10:30 And obviously we're thankful for that,
10:32 but it works both ways, like you said, a family atmosphere.
10:34 So athletic giving and being involved,
10:38 former players is so important for the success
10:41 of the university, not just basketball.
10:43 - And to add that, it's the football money too.
10:45 - Yeah, exactly.
10:46 - Not just football.
10:46 - Yeah, you don't have football.
10:48 It's absolutely, it's an uphill battle,
10:50 I don't think people realize.
10:51 And it goes into what we're probably gonna talk about,
10:54 how we just beat the PAC 12,
10:55 but going to the Big 12 is, we love the WCC.
11:00 I love the traditions, I love the Jesuit schools,
11:02 they're fantastic institutions.
11:04 It's not just me saying it.
11:05 You go to the campuses, you're like, holy smokes,
11:07 like I wish one of my kids would go here,
11:09 I'd be happy as pie if one of my kids
11:11 got a degree from there.
11:12 - I don't know how you go to school going to Pepperdine,
11:14 but that's a good point.
11:14 - Yeah, exactly.
11:15 - That's a good point.
11:16 - Yeah, exactly.
11:17 But you also go, you know, if we wanna make a jump,
11:22 we need more funding and that comes from TV revenue money.
11:25 And advertising, and that comes from a bigger brand.
11:28 And so we've asked the other guys, like, what is your take?
11:32 Obviously you understand the financial aspect of it,
11:35 but like as a traditional aspect,
11:37 what's your thoughts on going to the Big 12 potentially?
11:41 And you know, and obviously the PAC 12
11:42 is completely out of the question.
11:43 So now it's kind of like, if we're gonna be out in the cold,
11:46 we don't wanna be caught there.
11:47 So what's your thoughts on that?
11:48 - Yeah, I think there's a couple options you can look at.
11:52 I mean, obviously what the PAC 12 turns into
11:55 is different and unique,
11:56 and there's no idea what the monies are through that.
11:59 So, you know, the Big East was been thrown around for a lot,
12:03 but I mean, with the Big East and doing that,
12:05 what the money is without that, you know,
12:07 type of revenue coming in, you spend it in travel.
12:10 - Exactly.
12:11 - And so it kind of gets eaten up.
12:12 - Yeah, so then it's, yeah.
12:13 - You make money.
12:14 - Exactly, so East Coast, I mean, the Big 12,
12:17 I mean, in my opinion, would be a dream
12:21 in the sense of what's next.
12:22 One, it is by far the best basketball conference
12:25 in the country.
12:26 - It is now, absolutely.
12:27 - Especially with Houston joining.
12:28 - 100%, right?
12:29 - Well, sorry to interrupt.
12:31 The net, Houston's one, BYU is two.
12:34 The first net rankings just came out this morning.
12:36 It's unbelievable.
12:37 - And then, you know, arguably,
12:38 I mean, obviously what Tommy's doing with Arizona,
12:40 they're up there, but I mean, if you were to put it,
12:41 like, I mean, Kansas is ridiculous every year,
12:44 and they're ridiculous again, right?
12:45 I mean, it's just, you know, what Baylor's done,
12:47 except it's the best basketball.
12:49 So to be able to, with where college athletics is going
12:53 and kind of that separation into groups,
12:55 to be able to have the opportunity,
12:58 both, you know, men and women's side,
13:00 to play at that level,
13:01 the money has to be right,
13:04 'cause you have to compete, right?
13:05 I mean, Moe spelled it out,
13:06 is you can't go in there and you're already at a deficit,
13:09 and then to be at a further deficit.
13:12 It's interesting looking at it,
13:14 and the way I've described it before,
13:16 is kind of like the English Premier League, right?
13:19 There is no salary caps.
13:21 And so college athletics is turning into that,
13:24 to where you can go and, you know,
13:26 you take Arkansas, for example,
13:28 you have four billionaires that say,
13:29 "Hey, this would be fun,"
13:31 and like put it into, there's no salary caps.
13:33 And so it's just how much money and funding can we get,
13:36 and to spread that, you know,
13:38 whether it's NIL or whatever else around,
13:40 it's a different dynamic.
13:42 And so to be able to go into the Big 12,
13:45 capitalizing some of that funding to compete,
13:48 that would be the best.
13:49 I think it'd be very difficult and tough,
13:51 but I think the season where we're in,
13:54 we're gonna have to make a difficult choice.
13:55 And I trust, you know, Dr. McCullough,
13:59 and to Chris Stanford and FUE completely.
14:03 And I know they'll make the right decision
14:05 in those negotiations.
14:07 - You know, I've softened my stance
14:08 in the last month or a couple months.
14:10 Like I'm a WCC diehard.
14:12 Like I love the gyms,
14:13 I love the history of some of the programs.
14:16 I think Gonzaga wants to play for a national championship.
14:19 I think that's Coach Fu's ultimate dream, to win one.
14:22 And we've been on the doorstep twice.
14:23 So the league, as far as the competition aspects,
14:26 not limiting Gonzaga, but the financial piece
14:29 is I think the intriguing part, like we've talked about.
14:31 - It is.
14:32 - But the WCC's gotten off to a bad start, do you think?
14:35 If there's an offer that comes up soon,
14:38 like they're just like, okay,
14:39 the WCC's not doing what it needs on.
14:41 But the competitive side, we gotta go.
14:43 - Pushing back on that a little bit,
14:45 I think where the WCC is now,
14:47 and over the years, I totally agree,
14:49 but the unknowns of where college athletics is,
14:52 that's where you have a chance.
14:54 - Yeah, I agree.
14:55 - Yeah, a chance to get left in the dust.
14:56 - Yeah, you can't gamble that,
14:58 we still have a big brand, somebody will come grab us.
15:00 Well then, like you said,
15:01 maybe you're playing in the Big East,
15:02 and you're like, oh my God, we're traveling.
15:05 That hurts your recruiting on the West Coast,
15:06 'cause a kid goes, you know, all my games,
15:09 half my games are, so my friends and family can't fly in,
15:12 so they only go to home games, you know what I mean?
15:14 That's a real issue.
15:16 - Can you imagine being Stanford and Cal,
15:17 and getting a Retreat of California kid,
15:19 and say, by the way, we're gonna play the ACC?
15:21 - I was talking, we were talking before we got on camera
15:24 about the girls game,
15:25 and that was something that was brought up
15:26 after talking to people,
15:27 it's like, how is Stanford gonna look, girl side?
15:31 You know, because all those girls on the West Coast now,
15:33 it used to be, hey, you can watch me play Cal,
15:36 you can watch me play UCLA, you know?
15:38 USC, you go down the line,
15:39 now it's like, no, all our games are playing North Carolina.
15:41 That makes a big difference.
15:42 So that would happen with us as well,
15:45 being a top-tier program.
15:46 So I think it's really interesting.
15:49 Like your sentiment, I softened the last six months,
15:54 'cause last year I was like, this is dumb.
15:57 What are we doing?
15:58 And then you start reading through the lines,
16:00 and going, if you miss out on the realignment,
16:04 that's the unknown,
16:05 you will literally be with your hat on the corner,
16:07 going, please let us in,
16:08 and then you really, your brand can take a dip.
16:11 - You know, I talked to someone the other day,
16:13 and they're on the inside,
16:15 so I'm not gonna share who my source was,
16:17 but they were like, well, the number probably
16:19 that Gonzaga wants is this,
16:21 and the number that a Big 12 might be offering is this.
16:24 You've got a consultant in the middle
16:26 trying to massage both ends.
16:28 - I mean, you guys know the deal,
16:31 but you guys have the presidents,
16:33 and how the contract is public knowledge, right?
16:36 And any time they bring a football school in
16:40 from a power conference, the number is the same, right?
16:43 And you bring in us, or UConn, or somebody,
16:46 that has to be split, right?
16:48 And so, as much as we like,
16:50 I mean, it's still money, and sadly,
16:53 I mean, some of this is a greedy game.
16:54 I mean, Pac-12 got broke up, in my opinion,
16:57 just greed, for the greed of the presidents.
17:00 But, and so that is a, I mean, that commissioner,
17:03 as much as he's looking at long-term,
17:05 and I think he has it right, and is wise,
17:08 you know, you gotta convince a lot of presidents
17:09 to take that cut.
17:11 - I think, I think just, we're on the right track,
17:14 and we're trying to get the listeners,
17:15 and the viewers to understand that, like,
17:18 we love the WCC, and we're, you know,
17:21 going 29 and four, and all that stuff is great,
17:24 but the WCC, some of the schools don't try to win,
17:26 and that's just the flat-out truth of it.
17:28 Doesn't mean they're bad institutions,
17:30 but they sit there and go, okay, what is it,
17:32 79, 80,000 a rip to go there per kid.
17:35 They're usually at full enrollment,
17:36 so they're like, well, what, why are we spending money
17:38 on Division I sports?
17:40 You know, we have Whitworth up north,
17:42 and Whitworth is a great institution,
17:46 and they probably spend, you know,
17:49 one-tenth of the budget for sports,
17:51 and they just put it back into the university.
17:53 So a lot of those schools in the WCC be like,
17:55 let's just take a bus and play D3,
17:57 and play all, you know, Kyle Baptist,
17:59 or whoever's a D3 down there,
18:01 and they'd be completely fine.
18:03 And we've seen that in the last,
18:04 like, when you played at Pepperdine,
18:06 played against Pepperdine,
18:08 when you played against Pepperdine,
18:09 and when I played, the gym still looks exactly the same.
18:11 - Yeah.
18:12 - And that's--
18:13 - LMU's just a paint.
18:15 - It's a paint.
18:15 That's the whole, it's like,
18:18 some of these schools don't,
18:19 it's not that they don't try,
18:20 they've just been browbeat by Gonzaga,
18:22 so for so many years, they've just kind of given up.
18:25 And so, it's like a dead-end program,
18:28 and so, and the schools are going,
18:32 we're never gonna get elevated by the league,
18:35 and that's the sad truth.
18:36 So, going to the Big 12 just makes sense, in my opinion,
18:39 but it's, there's a lot of ins and outs.
18:41 - Oh, so many details.
18:42 - Yeah, the details, I don't even wanna have to, like,
18:45 checklist, to-do list for the athletic department,
18:47 but say, for example,
18:49 Gonzaga got through that gauntlet pretty well so far,
18:53 but they play, still play U-Dub,
18:54 San Diego State, UConn, and Kentucky.
18:57 The way that I think this team's starting to come together,
19:00 show some grit on the defensive end,
19:01 have balance on the offensive end,
19:03 you realistically could start saying,
19:06 "You know what, what if we only had one loss,
19:08 "one more loss?"
19:09 We could be a 30-win team,
19:10 potentially, going into the postseason.
19:13 - On an unknown season.
19:14 - On an unknown.
19:15 How spoiled are we as former players and fans?
19:18 - Goodness, yeah.
19:19 This team is, I mean, like you said, it's been an unknown,
19:23 and this team's been really fun to watch,
19:26 and we gotta remember, I mean, a lot of times,
19:30 okay, we played together two years, or three years,
19:32 or you kinda know the knacks,
19:35 and how people work,
19:36 and you even take Graham, right?
19:39 And he's going, shoot, I mean, he had that foot injury,
19:42 so he didn't get to practice much.
19:43 I mean, these guys are still trying to figure out
19:45 the flow of each other,
19:46 and to be able to do that,
19:47 and to play with the energy that they're doing,
19:50 I think is pretty impressive.
19:51 I mean, you take Dusty, for example,
19:53 I mean, he's known as a shooter,
19:54 you knew that shot was gonna come,
19:56 and to see it start coming during the USC game,
19:59 and do it, I mean, that's huge.
20:01 I will say, and this is, I want your guys' opinion,
20:04 'cause this is you guys.
20:07 But I think my only worry, as you get into it,
20:12 is we've been so spoiled on having the guy, right?
20:16 And when it gets into tough games, and you're doing it,
20:18 like, who is the guy that's gonna go get you one, right?
20:22 And you've had Timmy, and obviously,
20:24 like, you know, playing with Mo,
20:26 I was pulled, like, you had the player of the year,
20:28 and then, you know, JP, too.
20:30 It's like, hey, we have options, right?
20:32 And then, I mean, that was you, right?
20:34 It's like, hey, go get it, right?
20:36 And so, with this, when you're looking,
20:38 it's like 13, 13, 12, 12, 11, 11,
20:41 which is great balance, and that is a positive,
20:44 but who's the guy gonna get you a bucket, right?
20:46 And that's something, I think, from an identity,
20:48 we'll figure out during the year,
20:50 but that's something they gotta figure out.
20:51 I know the coaches, you know, and trust them, too,
20:54 but it is different.
20:55 - It is different, and I think,
20:57 in talking to Coach Phelan,
20:58 asking him that kind of specific question
21:00 on teams years past, not in this particular team,
21:02 he always said, he always felt that that was overrated,
21:05 and I said, but you gotta look at it.
21:07 If it's a close game, you gotta have a guy.
21:10 You gotta have a dude, 'cause that separates,
21:13 you know, maybe this isn't a great analogy,
21:15 but Oklahoma with Buddy Heald, you know,
21:17 a couple years ago, Kansas with,
21:19 I'm drawing a blank on it, was it Obagi?
21:24 - Yeah.
21:25 - I mean, you got guys on the top-level teams
21:27 that get to a Final Four,
21:28 - Very NBA guys. - And at the end of the game,
21:30 you know they're either gonna create a shot and make it,
21:32 or they're gonna get fouled,
21:33 or they create so much attention
21:35 that somebody gets an easy one.
21:36 - I mean, you can even, I mean, take last year,
21:38 yeah, you had Timmy, but, I mean, UCLA game,
21:41 it's like, who do you go to?
21:42 It's like, you go to your first-round pick,
21:44 and he's pulling up from 40 and hitting it, right?
21:46 I mean, as much as you can say, well, who's doing it?
21:47 It's like, you knew, he's like,
21:49 he's gonna make a decision and make a play, right?
21:52 And so, I mean, even, you know, other UCLA,
21:54 I just like talking about beating UCLA, 'cause--
21:56 - They did it again.
21:57 - Yeah, I love it. - World-wide.
21:58 - Right, it's like, Jalen hits the shot,
22:00 you know, it's a crazy shot, but it's like,
22:01 you know it's like, that dude's making a play, right?
22:05 - Yeah, I think that is legitimate concern
22:08 going into this season, was like, okay,
22:11 Graham's fantastic, was Player of the Year
22:13 in the Mountain West, but it's been 18 months
22:15 since he's played a collegiate game.
22:17 Then you go, okay, Nembhard was good,
22:19 he averaged 12, a crate, and let's see if he can make a jump,
22:21 but also, like, let's not put a lot of pressure on him,
22:23 'cause his brother played here, you know what I mean?
22:25 So I think he was feeling that.
22:26 Now he's starting to slow down and make correct plays.
22:29 Nolan has been way better this year in scoring the basketball
22:34 but is he a guy that can go get a bucket every time?
22:37 Not really, but can he score 17 to 20?
22:40 Yeah, it's 22 a night, yes, but we don't have the Drew Timmy
22:44 or someone we just throw it to and go get a bucket.
22:46 So that is a legitimate concern,
22:48 but also you can counter that logically and go,
22:51 well, we have four different options.
22:53 We can run our normal actions and it's hard to guard late.
22:56 - And Ryan is a playmaker, right?
22:57 - Yes, and he's starting to slow down a little bit,
23:00 'cause I think in Maui he got so sped up
23:02 and he was making poor decisions
23:03 and not shooting the ball under control.
23:07 And his numbers showed in the last two games,
23:09 like, dude, just chill, go half a count,
23:11 and now he's being really efficient.
23:14 So I think the balance scoring is fantastic,
23:17 but also you could argue, like, who do we throw it to?
23:20 So it'll be interesting.
23:21 That will be curious down the stretch.
23:24 - Yeah, and you talked about the balance score,
23:26 and I mean, shoot, you're talking about two guys
23:28 coming off the bench, too, that still can go get it.
23:30 - Yeah, that's true.
23:31 - I mean, it is nice, but.
23:33 - Well, you talk about kind of Nembhardt
23:36 taking Coach Few's probably criticism in practice
23:39 and coaching in practice.
23:40 - He probably looked at the stat sheet
23:42 and probably took his own criticism.
23:43 - Yeah, there's always, all the good players
23:44 also self-criticize. - You know what I mean?
23:45 - That's not who I wanna be.
23:47 Is there a time that you can remember Coach Few
23:50 just gave you an earful and you're like, that's wrong,
23:54 or you 100% knew you needed it?
23:58 - Yeah, there's a few.
23:59 You're the only one who's gonna have.
24:01 - I wore nine couch.
24:02 - Yeah, exactly, he's gonna have to just self-edit.
24:06 You know what I mean?
24:07 (laughing)
24:08 - Yeah, I mean, I think both, and that's,
24:11 as you guys know, as a player,
24:13 especially at that level, the biggest thing is,
24:16 I mean, it goes through ebbs and flows.
24:17 Maybe not you guys, but ebbs and flows of confidence, too.
24:20 Right, I mean, it's a little different.
24:23 You know, his year was the hardest,
24:25 and to where I think, because of my career,
24:29 I had to kind of change how I played and did that,
24:31 so it became trying to hit open shots,
24:33 and I shot 43% from three.
24:35 His year, I shot 25%, right?
24:38 'Cause it was, you miss, you're out.
24:39 Well, and I get it, but, you know.
24:41 - It's tough, it's hard to play that way.
24:42 - You miss, it's hard to play that way, right?
24:44 And don't get me wrong, I mean, they're legit, right?
24:48 But, and so, like, mentality,
24:49 but that's part of that mental strike you're going through,
24:51 'cause, I mean, the coaches are so smart,
24:54 know their stuff, you know, whether that's B-Mike,
24:57 or Fuey, or whomever that is,
24:58 so I think what's great about this
25:01 is the seasoned guys, where Ryan comes in so seasoned,
25:05 right, to where he's used to taking that,
25:07 and he knows, like, he's a dog and he's a player,
25:10 and so I think he can take that and go,
25:11 "Hey, no, I know this fits my game,"
25:13 and you take the nuggets of what works
25:15 and still make plays, right?
25:17 I mean, who is great at that is actually Norvell, right?
25:20 You look and he's like, "Man, I'm a scorer.
25:22 "I went 0 for 7, I'm going 7 for 7 in the second half,"
25:25 and he did, right?
25:26 And so you gotta have that kind of self-confidence,
25:29 kind of screw you attitude at times, too,
25:32 just going and making plays, right?
25:34 - Was there any part of you that wanted to get into coaching?
25:39 Because, you know, Adam and I have talked about this
25:42 amongst ourselves, but also with other guys
25:44 that have come in, and like,
25:45 I think you would have been a tremendous coach.
25:46 Was there any interest in that?
25:47 - I appreciate that.
25:48 And I mean, they definitely asked a couple times
25:52 in doing that.
25:53 Yeah, it was one of those things,
25:57 I mean, that lifestyle and how that works is tough, right?
26:00 I mean, you're-- - It's really hard.
26:01 - The recruiting to me would be the hard part.
26:03 - The recruiting would be tough,
26:04 and you're putting yourself,
26:05 and I mean, Brian's one of my best friends, right?
26:08 So I take that, but you're also putting the hands
26:10 in your livelihood and family's livelihood
26:11 in 18 to 22-year-olds' hands, right?
26:14 And that's a tough one.
26:16 And so, I mean, mass respect.
26:18 I think it would be tremendously rewarding and fun.
26:22 But yeah, so definitely thought about it.
26:26 But I like the business side too.
26:27 I like jumping in and being able to still be a part of it,
26:31 but kind of pursuing something else as well.
26:34 - What are you doing now?
26:35 - I work for McConkie Auction Group,
26:37 which is a auto auction group we own,
26:41 which is a niche in the automotive sector
26:44 that nobody knows because it's only kind of B2B,
26:48 so not customer-focused.
26:50 But with that, we have Portland, Seattle,
26:54 Spokane, Vegas, kind of throughout the Northwest.
26:58 - Bob's one of the big boosters for Gonzaga.
27:01 He's tremendous, tremendous family.
27:03 I'm not just saying it 'cause he's on camera
27:04 every time I see him.
27:05 He's awesome, his wife's awesome.
27:07 You go have a drink with them.
27:09 They're uber-successful people.
27:11 You would never know it, I mean that in a nice way.
27:13 Very generous people.
27:14 They helped the program out for many years behind the scenes
27:18 so they're another ones we mentioned earlier.
27:21 - Bob's phenomenal.
27:22 - They're phenomenal people.
27:22 - I snuck on his plane and once flew.
27:24 - Yeah, the McConkie family is tremendous.
27:28 And it's another, I mean, just servant leaders, right?
27:32 And live it and you can see it from the success
27:35 of how he runs a business to how he approaches life.
27:42 I feel very blessed as his kids,
27:44 and I shouldn't, I mean his kids, but they're men
27:48 and with their own families are in the business
27:50 and operate the same way.
27:52 And so how they raise them,
27:53 how they operate with their families,
27:55 it's this tremendous generational approach for sure.
27:59 - That's awesome.
28:00 Your last game as a Zag was against Steph Curry
28:03 in that Davidson loss, right?
28:05 Did you see that from Steph Curry?
28:07 - Yeah, it was one of those.
28:10 I love it and kind of a fun story is,
28:13 the Undisputed documentary came out and how I do it,
28:15 I say, "Hey kids, you guys wanna watch Daddy
28:17 on TV real quick?"
28:18 (laughing)
28:20 "Watch this."
28:20 There's a couple I got dunked on by Derrick Rose
28:23 and it's one of those like,
28:25 when he was in his prime,
28:27 they'd show three college highlights every game.
28:29 He was on national TV and one was me getting dunked on.
28:31 It was fantastic.
28:32 And then obviously UCLA game plays enough.
28:35 So it's like, "Oh, here comes flashes of a redhead."
28:38 (laughing)
28:40 But on that note, not at that level.
28:45 I mean, he's my favorite NBA player.
28:48 I just love how he approaches the game.
28:50 I love the underdog story.
28:51 I'd love how Golden State,
28:53 for the most part over the years, played basketball.
28:55 It's one of the purest kind of teams, just cut moving.
29:00 I mean, just gosh dang, it's pretty.
29:03 It's just beautiful.
29:04 But how he is tremendous, but yeah,
29:07 going from being up nine at halftime,
29:11 he has 10 and he finishes with 40.
29:14 So I didn't experience that in college too often.
29:19 Him, he had 37, one half.
29:21 That was wonderful.
29:22 That when he's on your team.
29:23 - It's on the NCAA tournament game.
29:24 - No, but when you face it,
29:26 it's just a whole other story.
29:29 - So he was obviously,
29:31 Del Curry, his dad was in Charlotte when I was there.
29:34 And I was around in the summer one time
29:38 and I see Del in the hallways, like,
29:39 "Hey Del, can you put me through a shooting workout?"
29:42 He's like, "Absolutely, come in tomorrow."
29:43 He's like, "Can my son come?"
29:45 I was like, he's like,
29:46 he's a Division I basketball player.
29:47 He went, "Sure, I like working out with other people.
29:49 "I don't like going one-on-one, it's harder."
29:50 You know what I mean?
29:51 Like going two or three,
29:52 he gets your little rest between reps,
29:54 but then you go really hard.
29:56 And he shows up and it's Steph.
29:58 And this, I think it's like going to his junior year
30:01 or something like that.
30:02 And nobody knew who he was.
30:04 And I'm not joking,
30:05 he went nine for 10 or 10 for 10, every single drill.
30:09 And I remember after I was talking to Del,
30:10 I go, "Why is he playing at Davidson?"
30:13 He's like, "I don't know."
30:14 You know what I mean?
30:15 He's just like, "He's really good though."
30:16 And he's like, "Yeah, I know."
30:17 His dad, like Del was like, "He's really good."
30:19 I'm like, "Yeah."
30:20 Like, it was unbelievable.
30:21 And it was like nine for 10, 10 for 10,
30:23 every single drill we did.
30:25 And we worked out.
30:26 And then later that year,
30:28 when you guys were playing,
30:29 Tommy Lloyd called me and said,
30:31 "Hey, I heard you worked out with this kid."
30:33 'Cause I told him like, "This kid's crazy."
30:35 And they're like, "Who should guard him?"
30:38 I'm like, "Put size on him, double."
30:41 I swear to God, this is not like playing up for the cameras.
30:44 Like he double team him,
30:46 like throw him to the ground,
30:47 like did boxing one.
30:49 I'm like, "He does not miss."
30:50 And I think we'll put, you know,
30:52 nothing against Stephen Gray,
30:53 but it's like, you need the whole team to guard him.
30:56 You know what I'm saying?
30:57 And of course that was, it came to fruition.
31:00 But that was my cool little Steph Curry story.
31:03 I always tell people that I'm like,
31:05 obviously I was in the league,
31:06 I could shoot the ball, but he did,
31:07 I mean, I was crazy.
31:09 He did not miss the whole workout.
31:11 - It's funny 'cause guys that are at that level,
31:14 even at the NBA,
31:15 they differentiate themselves by the way they move
31:17 and by the way that the ball spins
31:19 off their hands many times.
31:20 My last training camp, I was with Phoenix
31:23 and we played against the Warriors.
31:24 And so I had like a four minute stretch
31:26 where I guarded him.
31:27 And I actually, I said,
31:28 "Hey, thanks for beating my zags in the tournament last year."
31:32 He just looked at me and I think he said something
31:34 like I had to.
31:35 But yeah, I mean, he was different
31:37 and it's been pretty cool 'cause, you know,
31:39 I think he does it the right way with his work ethic.
31:42 - Well, he shows that any body type you can make it
31:47 if you put in the time and he's self-made.
31:50 You know what I mean?
31:51 So like, he's obviously like put on weight,
31:54 but he's like smaller.
31:56 He's obviously athletic,
31:57 but like if you're any size of a kid and you go,
32:00 if you just literally be obsessed with the game,
32:02 you have a chance.
32:03 - But I've never, I mean, you get more skilled,
32:05 but I swear with him,
32:06 and I get he was a late bloomer, not in his thirties.
32:09 He's because of the skill, how he reads the game,
32:11 his handle, he's gotten, he looks quicker.
32:13 - Yeah.
32:14 - Right?
32:15 Even with the ball, he looks quicker.
32:16 - Yeah.
32:17 - Right?
32:18 He didn't look like that when he first came in the league.
32:18 It was different.
32:19 - Well, I think obviously he had the ankle stuff,
32:21 but I'm sure, you know, once he started making jumps,
32:24 he got really dialed into the science of it
32:27 with his body and all those guys doing shots.
32:29 - Yeah, how you read, how you do.
32:31 - Yeah.
32:32 And then how you save steps on the other end.
32:33 You know what I'm saying?
32:34 And then be more efficient with your movement
32:36 because the margins obviously,
32:38 they get thinner and thinner.
32:40 And so, but I mean, it's that game.
32:43 I remember going to that game too.
32:45 And I was just like, I told you so,
32:48 but I couldn't say it, you know,
32:48 because I was mad that we'd lost,
32:50 but I was like, I've never seen anything like it.
32:52 I just never have.
32:54 It was crazy.
32:54 - I have a quick Tommy story for you.
32:57 And it has to do with play,
32:58 'cause the beautiful thing coming up
33:00 and you get stories of, I mean,
33:01 we played against, played with or against
33:03 like multiple player of the year.
33:04 But one was Blake Griffin.
33:06 We were down playing at Oklahoma my senior year.
33:09 And he was a freshman at that time.
33:12 And, you know, Tommy comes to me, he's like,
33:14 "Hey, we're gonna start you on this freshman kid,
33:16 Blake Griffin."
33:17 And he's like, "He's fake tough."
33:18 Right?
33:19 "He's fake tough."
33:20 Like he goes, "All you gotta do,
33:21 you just start him off with a pin-dough hit."
33:23 And like, dude, I was like, "You got it, man."
33:25 So we go and it's nothing like dirty,
33:27 but this one, he was on the baseline,
33:29 he's cutting and like, I go to chuck him,
33:31 but I actually chucked him high
33:33 and like hit him close to the throat.
33:35 He kind of goes down.
33:36 Dude, I swear he got up and his eyes are red.
33:39 And I'm like, "Uh oh."
33:39 - Uh oh.
33:40 - Yeah, what, oops.
33:41 - Here he goes, like two plays later,
33:43 I go to block him out by the free throw line.
33:45 He throws me aside like a rag doll,
33:47 jumps up, grabs it, misses a dunk,
33:50 like from that.
33:51 But he ends up, he has 25 and 11, long story short,
33:55 but I get subbed out the first time I go subbed out
33:57 and I sit next to Tommy.
33:58 And he already had started golf.
34:00 I was like, "Tommy."
34:02 - He's tough.
34:03 - I was like, "That didn't work."
34:05 And he just looks me in Tommy's voice,
34:07 he goes, "We all make mistakes sometimes."
34:08 (laughing)
34:10 And it was just like, "Nope, that was the wrong call."
34:13 So, I mean, he was, I mean, unbelievable.
34:15 I mean, especially then, I mean,
34:16 you're just a freak athlete and just strong as an ox.
34:20 - Yeah, it's fun memories.
34:21 Was there a player in the NBA or college
34:23 that you were like, "This dude's just different."
34:25 - Obviously, Kobe was one of those.
34:30 I mean, when you play in the league,
34:33 you see athleticism that you didn't think really
34:36 was possible, top to bottom.
34:38 That was always the biggest thing for me,
34:41 is even in like practices,
34:42 you see guys like touch the top of the square with ease
34:45 and it just becomes, you become like immune to it
34:48 or just, you know what I mean?
34:50 But then you go back and watch the college game
34:52 and you're like, and you try to tell guys
34:53 that are coming out, you know,
34:54 some guys will come ask me, "What do you need to prepare?"
34:56 But like, you need to be in the best shape of your life
34:59 and you need to understand like everybody's an athlete,
35:01 every single guy, there's not one guy
35:03 that's not athletic in that league.
35:05 And so that was probably the biggest thing
35:08 from my playing years of just seeing guys' athletic ability
35:11 was just off the charts.
35:12 Like, you know, when I was, you know, coming out,
35:16 I can windmill and all that,
35:17 that was nothing compared to what other guys could do.
35:19 You know what I'm saying?
35:20 It's just, it's insane.
35:22 And then people's first step.
35:24 And then I think now when you watch the game,
35:27 obviously shot making ability,
35:29 but like the way people handle the ball
35:30 is so much different than the game we played.
35:33 Like we were all a competent band,
35:34 but now like every single guy can like, you know,
35:38 split between the legs, you know, they carry a lot,
35:41 but that's also like,
35:43 that's a skillset that we were never taught.
35:45 - Yeah. - You know what I'm saying?
35:46 - Well, it was different too.
35:47 There was less freedom to go ahead and go.
35:49 - I know. - It was more post-up.
35:51 - You know what I'm saying?
35:52 Like they never, like it was never hammered to us
35:54 as fifth and sixth graders.
35:55 Like you need to be like unbelievable ball handlers.
35:57 - Yeah.
35:58 And to your point, I mean, they're the athletes.
36:00 I'm like, you have six, nine guys that can jump
36:02 that it's just like,
36:04 know how to read like three combos in a row to get,
36:07 it's unbelievable.
36:09 But I think, I mean, I always tell people that it's like,
36:13 oh, I don't watch NBA.
36:14 They don't, I'm like, do you ever watch one live?
36:16 I was like, go watch how big, fast, athletic they are
36:19 and how fast they're moving.
36:20 And then you come tell me that like,
36:22 that isn't the game of like, they're just.
36:24 - Yeah.
36:25 - Well, they just, they make it look so easy.
36:26 - Oh goodness.
36:27 I mean, they're just so good.
36:28 I, mine on that would be Derek Rose.
36:32 We're playing Derek, not just 'cause he dunked on me,
36:34 but I just remember like, I mean, he's truly like six, four.
36:38 And when you talk about the athleticism,
36:40 but it wasn't that, he was a freshman.
36:42 And you know, like my senior year, I was like fairly strong.
36:45 And I remember he drove just boom, just explosion
36:47 and then hit me in the stomach.
36:49 I mean, I felt like I got heavyweight hit.
36:52 And you're like, dude, this guy is a freshman
36:54 and built like just a brick house.
36:56 - I played in a preseason game with Washington.
36:59 It's when they picked John Wall number one
37:00 and we played Chicago and they're both Cal Perry guys.
37:04 And I remember Derek Rose came over the bench
37:07 and was like, your young guy can't hold me.
37:09 And they was watching two like.
37:12 - Just going at it.
37:13 - Yeah, 'cause they were both Cal guys.
37:16 But who's faster and Derek Rose is like, bam.
37:19 You know, and you're just like,
37:21 you're sitting there like, holy smokes.
37:23 - His explosiveness is just, I mean,
37:25 obviously then he blew his knee, but before that,
37:28 gosh dang, he was explosive.
37:30 - Yeah, Russell Westbrook would have been
37:31 the most explosive I played against.
37:33 And this was before my last full season in the NBA playing,
37:38 you probably played in those UCLA pickup runs down in LA.
37:42 He was just finished his freshman year.
37:45 He played like 12 minutes a game as a freshman,
37:48 going into his sophomore year.
37:50 And he was like one of the best players out there.
37:51 Pros, there's 30 pros and 20 college guys in the gym.
37:55 And I'm sitting there talking to him after a game.
37:57 Like, god dang, you didn't even play last year?
37:59 He's like, nah man, I couldn't get much burn.
38:02 I'm like, what the hell was wrong with whoever was in charge?
38:07 'Cause damn, I can't do anything with you.
38:09 Like I'd never played against a guy as explosive as him.
38:12 Maybe Baron Davis might be up there.
38:14 - Which is crazy.
38:16 I mean, that's when the Howlin,
38:17 obviously the team we played against,
38:19 every year they had seven pros on their team.
38:21 I would say, I mean, literally seven NBA pros
38:24 when you just look at those rosters
38:25 for those four years in a row.
38:27 I mean, just running guys.
38:28 - And then they ran him out of town.
38:30 - Yeah, it wasn't good enough.
38:32 - Yeah, I was like, okay.
38:33 - Well, the style of play for LA,
38:37 you want the showtime, you want the fun.
38:40 UCLA under Ben Howlin was like grind it out defensively.
38:43 Then they didn't have as much success with Alford.
38:46 Now they're back to kind of a grind it out style
38:48 with Cronin. - Grind it out,
38:49 it's the same thing.
38:50 - I mean, when you look at it,
38:51 you would have fit in any style.
38:53 We would have fit only in the up-tempo style.
38:56 - I don't get, and recruiting's different
38:59 and you're doing it in LA and UCLA and what they have.
39:03 But anytime I recruit against UCLA,
39:06 like I didn't even know Zags game we played.
39:07 I would just video, just take clips of him
39:09 and be like, this is who you wanna play for.
39:11 And then his conferences and it's me, I, me.
39:14 I'm like, just when we talk about serving leadership,
39:16 what FU brings, it is so different.
39:18 And sorry, I'm not, it's just, yeah,
39:21 guys can play for different guys, I guess.
39:23 But it's the style. - Well, I think it shows
39:25 there's different ways to lead.
39:27 And it depends on your personal style
39:31 and what you feel people will gravitate towards
39:34 and who you can get to gravitate towards that.
39:41 When you look at playing with Adam for two years,
39:44 any game or any memory truly stands out?
39:47 Or is there too many?
39:48 - No, I mean, yeah, there's a lot.
39:50 I remember, like Adam and I talked about
39:53 just growing up and committing young
39:56 and then playing some AAU,
39:58 at least practice stuff together.
39:59 But I still remember where I was sitting on his first game
40:03 when you played in the garden.
40:05 And I remember coming down in this,
40:07 like the left side, but dribbling right.
40:09 - Right handed. (laughing)
40:11 - But first, it's one of those things
40:13 when you talk about having the swagger,
40:15 the mentality of just--
40:16 - Rav used to always make fun of me for that.
40:19 He always dribbled down the left side with the right hand.
40:21 I can't dribble with my left hand, man.
40:23 - I mean, you're talking about that team.
40:25 I mean, they're coming off with Blake, Corey, Roney.
40:28 I mean, just-- - We had five seniors.
40:29 - Guys. - Six seniors that year.
40:31 - Bankhead too, right? - Bankhead, yep.
40:32 And coming off and making a move,
40:35 pulling off 15 and you're like, buckets.
40:37 You're like, yup, there it is.
40:40 Like, you still remember that distinct play
40:42 for the first time, where I was sitting,
40:43 watching that and being like, dude, he's a dude.
40:46 - Well, here, let me stop you real quick.
40:49 (laughing)
40:50 - I'm serious though. - No, I know, I appreciate it.
40:52 How frustrating was it though,
40:55 like this is an honest, candid conversation.
40:58 How frustrating was it
40:59 to have to change your game a little bit?
41:02 Obviously, you're a team guy and you grew up playing that,
41:04 but to change your game.
41:05 And I've recognized that I was an efficient player,
41:09 but I was getting a lot of back screens, down screens.
41:13 And so that's hard.
41:14 How frustrating was it that my junior year,
41:17 your sophomore year, to have to do this a lot
41:21 and then slip and not get it?
41:22 - See, I had two different mentalities on that.
41:25 Like, it was frustrating on just how I am as a person.
41:29 Like, I'm fine, like, hey, you tell me how to play,
41:31 I do this, but just having faith and trust works more.
41:35 Right?
41:36 But like, I want to win first and foremost,
41:38 and I'm okay with that.
41:41 No offense, like, we didn't,
41:43 like, dude, that sucker put the ball in one game.
41:45 Right?
41:46 And JP won games and like, Rav could knock down shots.
41:49 Right?
41:50 And you know, that's like, I was completely fine.
41:53 Obviously, like I had my knee stuff,
41:55 so that changed as usual.
41:57 I mean, you go from a 38 inch vertical
41:59 to a 20 inch vertical, like you got to change anyways.
42:03 And doing that, but like, we get him open,
42:05 like he scores, like, and I can sit there
42:08 and knuckle down and bring what the team needs.
42:10 Like, and that's different.
42:12 Now, that mentality probably doesn't exist
42:14 all the time in today's game.
42:15 - No, and like I said at the start of the show,
42:18 like you averaged 28, 30 a game for three,
42:22 at least three years in high school
42:23 and won state championships.
42:24 Right?
42:25 So like, you came in as a, this is a wing score.
42:29 Right?
42:30 And so I've, you know, I knew that answer was coming,
42:33 but we have to give context to the younger fans
42:37 that don't understand.
42:38 Like I had a lot of guys that sacrificed
42:41 for me to get open and me to get wide open looks and stuff.
42:44 That's not easy to do.
42:46 It's just not, especially when you're playing for free.
42:48 - Oh, totally.
42:49 - Now, if you're in the NBA, like,
42:50 and I could do that for 12 years,
42:52 a lot of guys make livings off pick and dive
42:53 and throw me the ball every six plays, who cares?
42:55 - Block shots, rebounds.
42:56 - Yeah.
42:57 But like, that's a hard thing to do.
42:59 And today's game, like being a wing scorer,
43:03 you'd probably transfer it and nobody would,
43:07 nobody would look at it sideways because, you know,
43:10 you'd be like, well,
43:11 where's my opportunity to show my skillset?
43:12 - Yeah. And it's, I mean, it's an interesting,
43:14 'cause yeah, there's a couple of things growing up,
43:17 recruiting, getting recruited early,
43:19 you would find out who cared or respected or not.
43:22 I mean, I just don't remember, you know,
43:23 Kansas calling and be like,
43:24 "Hey, do you want to come on official?"
43:26 'Cause I just, just like balled out in a Seattle tournament.
43:29 And I was like, I'm recruited there.
43:30 Like, yeah, do you want to come on official?
43:31 Like, I was like, I don't give a crap.
43:34 And I'm like, no, we're good.
43:36 But at the same time,
43:37 even in college of like guys being like,
43:38 hey, you unhappy, you want to come?
43:40 Hey, you unhappy?
43:41 It's like, no, man, we're good.
43:42 This is home.
43:43 Like we, we, we are.
43:45 - Well, I think that's,
43:45 that mindset you're talking about is one of the reasons
43:47 you're one of the favorite Zags of all time.
43:50 - I appreciate that.
43:51 - You know, I mean, and I don't say that lightly because,
43:53 you know, Adam and I come in contact with people all the
43:56 time about the program,
43:57 'cause we call the games on the media side,
43:59 but I always hear people tell stories about different Zags,
44:02 about different teams.
44:04 And your name comes up probably almost as much as anybody
44:07 because of the selflessness that you played with.
44:10 When you hear that, that's got to feel good.
44:12 - Yeah, no, absolutely.
44:13 But I mean, it, it feels good.
44:15 Like we talked about, I mean,
44:16 what's been built and being a part of something that's bigger
44:19 in yourself always feels good.
44:20 And I mean, to have the memories as a kid,
44:23 like a small amount of people make it professionally.
44:27 Obviously you guys are in that very, very minute, you know,
44:29 small amount of people get an MBA, but,
44:32 and he's humble about this, but that year,
44:35 sophomore year, and I tell people this, like,
44:37 my college experience was not normal, right?
44:39 Not, not just playing for, you know,
44:41 a great program and now a perennial top 10 program, you know,
44:45 a hall of fame coach,
44:46 like getting to play with some of my best friends,
44:48 doing all that, like that's when SportsCenter was the thing
44:53 and the top story was JJ Reddick and Adam Morrison.
44:56 Every time.
44:57 And like, we come off and it was like, not the Beatles,
45:00 but like mini Beatles, like, I mean,
45:02 that's a crazy experience for a 19 year old or 20 year old
45:06 to go through.
45:07 And you're like, dang, like,
45:08 - You guys give them a hard time for that?
45:10 You had to have, it was pretty wild anyway.
45:12 So you just kind of rolled with the experience.
45:15 - We were, the, the university in God bless them,
45:18 wasn't ready, media trained wise.
45:21 And so a lot of the chaos was a little bit,
45:25 - Mishandled.
45:26 - Mishandled.
45:26 And that's the best way to put it.
45:27 Not, not like in a bad way,
45:30 but also like they could have thrown some of the stuff
45:33 on the wayside and we just had so much media access
45:37 and it was constant and it got tiresome for everybody.
45:41 Like it just did.
45:42 Like, I don't care if it was, you know,
45:45 like it wouldn't be fun as a player to always have to talk
45:48 about somebody else, even if you like the guy or whatever,
45:51 right, it is, it just wouldn't be.
45:54 So then there was no feel on that side to be like,
45:58 all right, let's just stop talking about Adam and let's,
46:01 or like the, you know,
46:03 the Ritzville times doesn't need to get full access.
46:06 - Ritzville times?
46:07 - No, I mean, literally, it was like every,
46:10 every media outlet,
46:10 - Brewster Bulletin, there's a newspaper back there.
46:13 - Had every right to access and it got to be really
46:17 tiresome where it got.
46:19 - And that's, I mean, I mean, from a basketball side too,
46:22 that's, I mean, things did start to explode differently,
46:26 you know, about that time to where, I mean,
46:28 not just for Gonzaga, just in general, right?
46:31 - Well, it wasn't a highlight culture yet.
46:33 - Right, and that's what I mean.
46:35 It kind of, not saying that started it,
46:37 but it was in, you know,
46:38 one of those segments that you can look back on that,
46:42 you know, were different to where.
46:43 - Well, and like you mentioned the sports center aspect,
46:45 like college teams were classes and they were followed
46:50 into for four years, three years, you know,
46:53 now as college basketball's, you know, evolved,
46:57 good or bad, like, I don't know the starting five on Kansas
47:02 or Oklahoma, like 20 years ago, you probably did.
47:06 Like I knew Keith Langford and I knew Nick Colise,
47:09 you know what I'm saying?
47:10 You knew like five or six teams are like,
47:11 oh, those guys were pretty good last year.
47:13 Let's see if they make a jump as juniors and seniors now.
47:16 I knew Ed Cota, I knew Vince Carter,
47:19 you know what I'm saying?
47:20 Now it's different.
47:21 So like when I was playing our teams,
47:24 we were in that mode where people were really attached
47:28 to college basketball and it was a little bit different.
47:31 - But I'm gonna keep on this though.
47:33 I mean, a couple of other memories.
47:36 I mean, the Michigan State game was wild.
47:38 I remember being so tired.
47:40 - Well, do you remember, was it you that didn't switch
47:43 on the slip and that guy missed that layup on the OB under?
47:48 - Gordon Suton.
47:49 - Remember that?
47:50 - I don't know if it was me, it probably was.
47:52 - No, I think it was one of the--
47:54 - Gordon Suton, he was my class, I think.
47:57 And he freaking missed it.
47:59 We had a couple of guys miss layups.
48:00 LMU at home in the D'Arcy's tournament,
48:02 that guy missed that layup.
48:03 - What was that guy's name?
48:04 He used to come play pickup in LA in the summers
48:07 when we need bodies for the Lakers.
48:10 And I always wanted to just be like,
48:13 hey man, do you feel terrible about it?
48:16 - Not in a bad way, 'cause I'm like,
48:18 that must have been traumatizing.
48:20 If you make that layup, you guys go to the NCAA tournament,
48:23 you change the whole arc of LMU basketball.
48:26 - Oh, the LMU guy.
48:27 - Yes, I mean, he literally smoked a wide open layup.
48:31 - I remember going to Earl,
48:32 just looking at him afterwards being like, dude.
48:34 - Yeah, 'cause Earl switched out or something.
48:36 And then he got a, I think he got a fingertip to it.
48:39 It was one of those panics where like, oh my God,
48:42 I gotta jump as high as I can and he missed it.
48:44 And we all like get foul, go to the huddle,
48:46 we're like looking at each other like,
48:48 'cause that was the only year we had the tournament at home.
48:51 And so Coach Pugh bitched about it for five years.
48:55 How come we don't get to play at home?
48:56 How come we don't get to play?
48:57 It was true, we always win the league,
48:58 we gotta go play it somewhere else.
49:00 So we finally get it here
49:01 and we were gonna lose to LMU.
49:03 Thank God it was one of those like, yes, like, oh my God.
49:06 So yeah, I don't know.
49:08 - But that Michigan State game, you were so tired
49:11 that I remember that's the only game in my life
49:13 that you're taught to run down the middle of the floor,
49:16 don't let them get there.
49:17 And then we would run,
49:17 'cause they get it so fast up the sideline
49:20 that we'd run on the sideline with our hands wide open
49:23 and just don't pass up the sideline
49:24 'cause we gotta get a break.
49:26 But yeah, Shana Brown, I remember one time on the zone
49:30 or one, it's like close out
49:32 and it's like your legs didn't move and he drove past.
49:35 And I mean, he was the guy that put his,
49:37 oh, one of those guys that--
49:38 - I played with him in LA.
49:39 - His head's at the right, he's looking at the rim, right?
49:42 He had one of the best practice dunks I've ever seen.
49:44 We tried to get it on tape.
49:45 And it's one of those where he, you know,
49:47 statute of liberty from like just inside
49:50 the free throw line over somebody.
49:52 And it's one of those where you're like,
49:53 I was talking earlier, like athleticism.
49:56 People don't know.
49:57 You're like, I mean, he's one of those guys
50:00 that could palm off the dribble
50:01 and he boom over somebody from like 14 and a half feet.
50:05 It was just like, this is stupid.
50:08 - Yeah, he and I recorded
50:09 'cause we did Nike camp together twice.
50:12 And we're actually on the same three and three team
50:14 and won the thing together.
50:15 But oh my, so he probably knew
50:16 I wasn't gonna guard this anyway.
50:18 (laughing)
50:20 I've just did one of those.
50:21 I'm like, it's two points.
50:22 I just like, this thing's going.
50:24 And then, I mean, the LMU, I mean, having 37 and a half,
50:29 I remember, I mean, we should be LMU all day.
50:31 And it was just like, I think I was setting a lot of down,
50:33 it was like down, screw dick.
50:35 - Yeah, just down as well.
50:37 - And just unfathomable.
50:40 - They just couldn't figure out lock and trail
50:42 and make him curl and then jam it on the...
50:44 - Yeah, it was one of those two where,
50:47 I mean, you've been in these zones where you just catch it
50:49 and no matter how your feet are set,
50:51 it's probably going in.
50:52 You had a big one like that.
50:55 - At LMU as well, yeah.
50:57 First half.
50:58 - First half, yeah.
50:58 So it's a good shooter's job.
51:00 - Yeah, yeah.
51:01 And then, I mean, sadly, I mean, it's UCLA game too, right?
51:05 You sit in halftime and at whatever point, we're up 18,
51:09 I don't remember, we're at 15 and a half, whatever we were.
51:10 - 15 at point.
51:11 I don't think it was at half, but it was late.
51:14 - Yeah, it was late.
51:15 And, but you're sitting at half,
51:16 I remember Fuey's line at the time, he's like,
51:18 "Hey, one more half for you guys at that time,
51:21 the greatest comes like a team in ball time."
51:23 Right?
51:24 And you're like, and that's, didn't it?
51:24 But it's like, you don't highlight,
51:26 I mean, you still go play the game.
51:28 - Here's what always bothered me,
51:30 obviously losing that game,
51:31 but we were gonna play Memphis to go to the Final Four
51:34 and we lost to Memphis at their place.
51:36 - At Memphis, absolutely.
51:36 - And so we felt like we could beat that team
51:39 and we controlled that game at their place.
51:42 And we knew that they would be scared.
51:44 - 100%.
51:45 - So that was part of the psychology of that game was,
51:49 you're not supposed to overlook,
51:51 but you're naturally going, all right,
51:54 in five minutes, we're gonna play these guys
51:56 and we're gonna beat these guys.
51:58 And then, Tommy Lloyd put it in the best interview
52:01 I've seen years ago.
52:02 He's like, "UCLA needed like nine things to happen
52:06 and all nine of them happened."
52:08 You know what I mean?
52:09 - They all went well.
52:10 - They all went the right way for them.
52:12 - Everything from, you slip at half court to,
52:15 I mean, it's just, I mean,
52:17 JP's the strongest person in college basketball
52:19 and a 90% foul shooter.
52:20 - Well, and also like, if you're being honest,
52:24 most of the times officials just go beep
52:26 automatically on those.
52:28 - They called an over the back on JP on a seven foot,
52:30 or like Ryan Hawkins,
52:31 or just like, and then Ryan's a 60% free throw,
52:34 makes both, right?
52:35 - Well, in Pharma, we talked about,
52:37 I mean, obviously I played with him.
52:38 He's like, "I made a 14 foot runner
52:41 with a hand in my face."
52:42 - No, that was, I was sitting there.
52:44 I remember watching him,
52:45 I'm like, "I couldn't have played better defense."
52:46 - He was like, "I think I can make that shot."
52:49 He was just like, "But the perfect defense."
52:52 - It's one of those, I mean, I joke with people.
52:54 I'm like, "Well, you know, there's a Grant Hill pass."
52:57 I'm like, "Come on, JP."
52:58 You know, it's a gun that deals,
52:59 "Come on, come on."
53:00 You know, it's just nothing, it happens.
53:02 And that's what it is.
53:03 And I remember sitting, watching the UCLA Memphis game.
53:06 I'm like, "All right, they'll hand."
53:07 Like Memphis is so athletic.
53:09 I think the combined shooting percentage is just 32%.
53:12 And just this ugly game,
53:13 when it makes you sick to your stomach,
53:15 watching them keep go.
53:17 But it is, anyways, that's some Mo memories.
53:20 - Well, those are some great Mo memories.
53:23 David, appreciate you spending some time
53:25 telling a bunch of stories.
53:28 I guess just finish this episode with,
53:31 Coach Hurts always calls people a zag.
53:35 You know, I think that term is used a lot.
53:37 But from an insider to you, what is a zag?
53:40 - Oh, goodness.
53:42 Especially from that perspective.
53:43 I think the thing, and first and foremost,
53:47 with a zag is, I said it a couple times,
53:51 but being part of something that's bigger than yourself.
53:53 And at some point,
53:55 you're gonna give back in a selfless way, right?
53:58 And do so with the understanding of,
54:02 hey, this program and being a zag,
54:05 and what it means is gonna get bigger
54:09 and be better with me giving, right?
54:12 And that could be, you know,
54:13 setting screens when you're in it.
54:14 It could be after you're done.
54:16 And, you know, the knowledge that you guys have
54:18 working with younger players.
54:20 And when you're in it,
54:21 it could be giving to the Spokane community.
54:23 'Cause part of being a zag is this community
54:27 and how they have just been so supportive
54:31 and all in all the time.
54:34 And being able to, you know,
54:38 give back in any way you can by just being selfish.
54:42 And part of that is the hard work, right?
54:44 It's not the going through the motions.
54:46 It's knowing that it, you know,
54:49 is a grind to get this done.
54:51 So I would say off the cusp,
54:54 that would probably come to mind.
54:55 - Great stuff.
54:56 Anything to finish?
54:57 - No, it was good talking to you, bud.
54:59 - Yeah, you too.
55:00 - We'll see you down the girls' AU trail,
55:02 which we both enjoy,
55:03 but it's fun to catch up on that side of the game.
55:06 And I know you got a good team in town
55:09 and, you know, we're kind of intermixed on that stuff now.
55:12 And I guess we must say, like,
55:15 congrats to the women's team
55:16 beating number three Stanford the other day.
55:18 It's a great, great win for the program.
55:20 It was electric in that building.
55:21 And Lisa and Craig and the whole staff
55:24 had an excellent game plan.
55:25 They've done a great job.
55:26 It's a really fun team to watch too, honestly,
55:28 not just because they're wearing Zag uniforms.
55:29 They score it.
55:31 They got inside out.
55:32 They play well together.
55:33 All moves, you know what I mean?
55:35 - Those two guards, I mean, the twins.
55:37 - Well, those, and the girls inside too, man,
55:40 they'd leg whip and they'd throw over the top.
55:42 And then double team comes,
55:43 they shovel pass to each other.
55:45 - Kick it out, they can all shoot.
55:47 - It's good hoops.
55:48 And then that, what's that girl that hit 27 yesterday?
55:51 - The guard, she'd just piss out of it too.
55:55 - And I mean, Ejum inside is,
55:58 I might be partial to her.
56:00 She's a beast.
56:02 Gosh.
56:03 - Just rip and boop, lay up.
56:05 - Mine, mine.
56:07 She is a stud.
56:08 - Yeah, that's awesome.
56:08 She's done a great job with the program.
56:10 I mean, Stanford, I think was ranked number three.
56:12 - Highest win in their program history, I think.
56:15 - So not just the men's program are doing great things.
56:17 - I gotta give props to Stanford too.
56:18 I mean, you're coming in.
56:19 - I know.
56:20 - And then.
56:21 - They don't have to play us at home.
56:22 - No, at home.
56:23 It's like, yeah, we'll play neutral,
56:24 then you can come here.
56:25 I mean, to have the guts to go play a true road game
56:28 on a non-conference schedule.
56:30 - That's good for, it's good for women's basketball.
56:32 It's like, you want those high level.
56:33 And Gonzaga actually has a legitimate girls fan base.
56:37 And I'm not knocking the girls game,
56:39 but you go to some of these bigger programs
56:40 and there's not a lot of people at the games.
56:43 And the fact that they sold out
56:45 and the atmosphere was fantastic.
56:47 Speaks to the Zag family and the community as well,
56:50 because it's good hoops,
56:53 but a lot of people just don't watch it.
56:54 So I was happy, happy to be there.
56:56 Lucky enough to go.
56:57 - Yep.
56:58 I was busy coaching 11 girls games this weekend.
57:01 - Oh, there you go.
57:02 (laughing)
57:03 - But I did get.
57:04 - You don't have a day here yet.
57:04 So it's good.
57:05 It gets.
57:06 - I did get my tickets away though, and they enjoyed it.
57:09 So it was fun to watch it on TV.
57:11 - Awesome.
57:12 Thanks again for joining for episode nine of Talking Zags.
57:16 Adam Morrison and myself,
57:18 we had the Zag legend, David Pendergraf in the hot seat.
57:21 So again, thanks for joining
57:23 and enjoy the rest of the Zag season.
57:25 - Absolutely.
57:26 Appreciate it guys.
57:27 (upbeat music)
57:29 (upbeat music)