Former West Coast Conference Player of the Year, Jeff Brown joins Talking Zags to discuss his days at Gonzaga and how far the men's basketball program has come since the 90s.
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Talking Zags for Gonzaga Nation, episode 10.
00:09 Your host, myself, Dan Dickow, Adam Morrison,
00:12 with a Gonzaga legend.
00:14 He was actually a Meade legend before Adam Morrison
00:17 out of Spokane, and he was a University of Washington legend
00:20 before he was at Gonzaga.
00:22 So, wanna welcome fellow Zag, Jeff Brown.
00:26 Thanks for joining.
00:27 - Awesome, thank you, Dan.
00:28 - No, for sure.
00:29 So, lots of topics to cover.
00:31 Current team, your time at UW, why you went to GU,
00:35 how you were the first big time transfer
00:37 that kind of made the most of the opportunity here.
00:40 Also wanna hear about Meade's stories,
00:42 'cause you were the original superstar out of Meade
00:45 before this guy came in.
00:46 So, I guess let's just jump right into the game
00:50 that was just recently played.
00:52 You and I both always watch this game closely,
00:54 UW versus Gonzaga, 'cause we both transferred from there.
00:58 What are those emotions like when you watch a game
01:01 with the two schools that you played for
01:02 at the college level?
01:03 - That's a great story.
01:04 So, it's super odd, I don't know if you have the same thing,
01:07 but even feeling like yourself,
01:08 putting on that purple uniform or playing in heckhead
01:11 just seems so foreign.
01:12 I don't identify as a Husky clearly anymore.
01:15 And clearly, that's the one game on the schedule every year.
01:18 You kind of circle to validate
01:19 kind of what we've all built here in Spokane.
01:23 And so, I'm always, obviously,
01:25 watch every single Gonzaga game,
01:27 but that one is always uniquely interesting for me.
01:30 And it's the classic UW-Gonzaga game,
01:34 where UW has these very athletic teams.
01:37 And watching that game, you kind of had a feeling like,
01:41 eh, we're not quite separating as we would like to.
01:44 And of course, the crowd is loud,
01:46 and then that last, call it eight or 10 minutes,
01:48 was eight or 10 minutes,
01:49 I'm sure that the Zags would love to go back and redo,
01:52 make a handful of plays, and they win that pretty handily.
01:54 But hand it to the Huskies, they're better.
01:57 And they certainly have been in years past.
01:59 And I just hope they keep playing,
02:01 'cause I think that that game is great for the state.
02:04 I think it's great for Seattle and the Spokane Hoops.
02:06 And again, that rivalry game should continue.
02:09 - Yeah, I hope that game continues.
02:11 I didn't like it when there was that pause of not playing it.
02:15 When you look back at your time at UW,
02:17 why did you transfer from Gonzaga?
02:20 I'm sure there were probably similarities for myself,
02:22 but what were your reasons?
02:24 - That's a great question.
02:24 So again, this is way back in the day.
02:26 In fact, this year is the 30th anniversary
02:28 since I graduated from Gonzaga,
02:30 which certainly dates myself, right?
02:31 - There you go.
02:32 - And so, coming out of Meade,
02:35 what was super interesting is,
02:36 my grandfather played football at Washington State,
02:39 my dad played baseball down there,
02:40 my uncle played down at Washington State,
02:42 and my whole family went to Washington State.
02:44 So it begs the question, how did you end up in Seattle?
02:47 And at the time, Fitz did a wonderful job,
02:50 and Coach Munson, back when there was no restrictions
02:53 on how often they can contact you,
02:55 which meant I got a letter in the mail
02:57 every single day throughout the summer.
03:01 And Fitz was my first home visit.
03:02 And I just think, remember,
03:03 we all love how much Fitz could talk.
03:06 And the first home visit was like five hours.
03:09 And I had, I think, 25 other home visits scheduled,
03:12 and that night I'm like,
03:12 "Okay, I'm not doing that for 25 straight nights."
03:15 And so, Gonzaga at the time,
03:18 it was a time when kids from Spokane often
03:19 were looking to go outside, over to the big city of Seattle,
03:23 and go do something different.
03:24 So it was the allure of playing in the Pac-10, for sure,
03:27 and the allure of going to a bigger city.
03:30 And Gonzaga at the time
03:31 was not exactly a basketball powerhouse.
03:34 And I often say, do I regret transferring?
03:38 No, 'cause it gave me a different contextual view
03:40 of kind of what that experience looked like.
03:42 And so, unfortunately, I signed my scholarship early,
03:45 the fall of my senior year,
03:47 and in that spring, I'm playing baseball.
03:49 And we had a really good baseball team.
03:50 I got drafted, we got beaten in the state final,
03:52 11 kids went to go play, but one afternoon,
03:55 like all three local TV cameras are out there,
03:57 I'm like, "That's kind of weird.
03:58 "It kind of feels like they're just following me
03:59 "on the baseball field, and I'm not that good."
04:02 And so afterwards, it was like,
04:03 "Jeff, your coach got fired today.
04:04 "What do you think about that?"
04:06 And so, I signed my scholarship for Andy Russo,
04:08 came in under Len Nance, under his first year,
04:11 and let's just say that was a long year.
04:13 I think I played a total of like 40 minutes,
04:16 and halfway through that year,
04:17 had my dad reach out to Coach Fitzgerald and say,
04:19 "Would there be any chance
04:20 "you might have a scholarship available
04:22 "the following year?"
04:23 Right now, you just hit the transfer portal,
04:24 and you've gone a semester, and do it a different way.
04:27 But it was important to me to finish out.
04:29 And how I got here was my other
04:32 teammate at the time, Jared Davis, was redshirting here.
04:37 And kind of convinced me that that crew that they had here
04:40 that was redshirting was super talented,
04:43 great environment, great culture,
04:45 and I didn't want to reopen the recruiting process,
04:47 so to speak, and I committed to Fitz,
04:49 and Coach Munson, my tiny little dorm over in Seattle
04:52 that spring, and again, I'm so happy that I did that.
04:56 - Yeah, that's a different world
04:58 when you and I both decided to transfer.
05:00 Now, it's like 1,800 players, I think,
05:02 were in the portal last year.
05:03 If you transferred at that time,
05:05 there was like a check mark next to your name,
05:07 like, "Oh, he doesn't believe in himself,
05:09 "he's not good enough, he's injured, what are the issues?"
05:12 How hard, it sounded like it was pretty easy
05:14 because of that coaching change.
05:16 - It was. - To go ahead and make that move.
05:17 - It's kind of funny, I got two funny stories about that.
05:19 One, I didn't want anybody to know I was transferring,
05:24 'cause again, you started a game over there,
05:25 and practice felt like I was playing well,
05:27 and I kept getting, "We're gonna get you more minutes,
05:29 "more minutes," and I remember being on the road
05:31 at Oregon, Oregon State, and Coach Nance was like,
05:32 "Jeff, I need to see you in my room after practice."
05:34 I'm like, "Oh, am I gonna start?
05:36 "I'm certainly gonna get more minutes."
05:37 And he said, "Coach Fitzgerald called me,
05:40 "and I think that's a great idea."
05:41 And I think that's a great idea.
05:42 (laughing)
05:44 So at that point, I could have played
05:45 with jeans under my warmups,
05:46 it wouldn't have mattered, I was done.
05:48 And then I remember meeting with Mike Lue, the AD,
05:51 at the time, at the end of the season,
05:53 'cause to your point, Dan,
05:54 it wasn't just hit the transfer portal,
05:55 there was a process to go transfer,
05:57 and then you had to sit out a year.
05:59 And Coach, or Mike Lue, the AD there,
06:02 also kind of reinforced that it's important to go play
06:03 at the level that you can go play at,
06:05 and I think that's a great decision.
06:06 So again, you don't sign up for the coach,
06:09 and I have strong opinions about the ability to transfer
06:11 when those coaching changes do happen.
06:13 Coach Nance didn't want me in his program,
06:15 and I didn't sign up for his deal.
06:17 Let's just agree that let's have an amicable divorce
06:20 and move our separate ways.
06:21 - Interesting.
06:22 - Do you think having to take a year
06:25 really benefited you as a player?
06:28 Because we talked about the transfer portal,
06:29 we do it with everybody on the show.
06:32 Having a redshirt year,
06:33 how much did that benefit you as a young player?
06:36 Because I think now,
06:38 like we were talking about Braden Huff pretty soon,
06:39 but Braden redshirted last year,
06:42 and it was fantastic for him.
06:43 Instead of playing eight minutes a night last year,
06:47 he got better, he's had a great season so far.
06:50 Do you think, how much did that help you?
06:51 - Oh Adam, I think it's huge.
06:53 - Nobody does it anymore.
06:55 - No, VUTA's like, I want to accelerate my road,
06:58 and so I love Huff's game.
07:00 - I want to get on the clock as quick as possible
07:02 for the NBA.
07:03 - Yes, exactly.
07:03 And so you take a look at like Oleinik and Wiltshire,
07:07 and all these guys that use that redshirt year
07:08 and maximize the VALFET year.
07:10 And how much literally that,
07:12 you know, Oleinik, I've never seen him jump like that.
07:14 I remember watching him as a true freshman,
07:16 he's a seven foot, pretty skilled guy.
07:17 I'm like, he's got a chance, right?
07:19 And then he redshirted and came back,
07:20 I'm like, yeah, he's got a chance.
07:22 And so personally, that redshirt for me was an awesome year.
07:25 You kind of, it's what you get out of it
07:27 is what you put into it.
07:28 And so Coach Few, Coach Krause,
07:31 and every day was about development work,
07:33 and it was really an awesome year to take that next step.
07:36 And I remember having the conversation,
07:38 I was done playing here,
07:39 and I think it was with Richie,
07:42 who just got here.
07:43 And of course he wants to play as a freshman.
07:44 I'm like, Richie, here's the deal.
07:45 You're gonna trade 32 minutes a game
07:48 as a fifth year senior
07:49 for your eight to 10 as a true freshman.
07:52 And Adam, I remember you were probably
07:54 one of the better true freshmen this program's ever had.
07:57 And you're gonna average eight, 10, 12,
07:59 that's an unbelievable true freshman year.
08:02 And not everyone gets to go get drafted and leave early,
08:05 but man, that fourth year, fifth year playing
08:07 versus a true 18 year old, as you guys know,
08:10 the speed of the game is different.
08:11 - 100%.
08:12 - And that's a huge jump to go from high school
08:14 to high individual basketball.
08:16 - Yeah, for me, that redshirt year was instrumental
08:18 for me to get to where I wanted to be.
08:21 And I 100% agree with you about the challenges
08:24 of going through it and how beneficial it can be.
08:26 I think you and I are unique in that
08:28 we both had Coach Few in our ear
08:29 every single day in a redshirt year.
08:31 So you had him as a young coach,
08:33 I had him as a first time head coach.
08:36 What was he like grinding on you every single day?
08:39 - Oh man, I-- - In your ear to get better.
08:42 - Fewie is the best, right?
08:43 As far as, when I got done playing,
08:45 he and I would go fly fish or golf all the time.
08:49 And great memory, he's doing that with him.
08:51 As a coach, he was obviously demanding.
08:54 And as far as the workout, becoming a better athlete,
08:58 all of those things, what I appreciated with my era
09:01 was Fitz took a chance on these young assistant coaches.
09:04 And Coach Munson drove a lot of that,
09:06 bringing in Coach Few and Coach Greer,
09:09 that fundamentally changed the culture of the program.
09:13 And all of a sudden you had these young guys
09:15 who were aggressive on the recruiting trail.
09:18 I love the fact that the whole,
09:20 don't recruit him if he's getting recruited to the Pac-10.
09:22 And they were like, why not?
09:24 Let's go get guys.
09:25 Why can't we do that here?
09:26 And so I remember at one point Fitz talking about,
09:30 hey, if we win half our games on the road and win here,
09:33 I'm like, that's not good enough.
09:34 Like, we should go, let's go win all of our games.
09:37 And that sort of mentality,
09:39 kind of pushing through those perceived ceilings
09:41 and limitations that sometimes people perceive
09:44 to kind of say, yeah, look at what it's become.
09:46 And I think it's become that because of Mark's ability
09:48 to not buy into those self-imposed ceilings or restrictions.
09:53 - So let's get into last night's game
09:56 or a few days ago against Washington.
09:58 We were talking about Brayden Huff.
10:00 He's only played four minutes against Washington.
10:03 Now as a basketball man,
10:05 why do you think he played so little in that game?
10:08 - Oh, I can't answer that specifically.
10:11 I will answer, like he shoots it so well.
10:13 Like that brings a tear to my eye to see a 6'10,
10:17 6'9 guy be able to stretch the floor.
10:20 I would love to see him stretch their shot blocker
10:22 out of the key.
10:23 That guy was so dynamic.
10:25 - Ken Pang.
10:25 - All right, he blocked six or seven shots and challenges.
10:28 I don't know how many others.
10:30 And he was a challenge defensively for us.
10:32 And so if you can all of a sudden have a guy step out,
10:34 start, he's got to go defend the three.
10:37 Certainly Ben Gregg can do the similar type of change.
10:39 The stretch of the floors is important.
10:43 - First experience on the road for Brayden Huff
10:49 and Dusty Stromer, that had to have been an experience
10:52 because they've played neutral site games
10:54 or home games up until now.
10:56 I remember my first road game when I was at UW
10:58 that I can remember clearly being like,
11:00 whoa, this is different.
11:01 Was at Oklahoma State, 10, 12,000 people
11:04 right on top of you.
11:05 How much do you think that played into the few
11:07 of the struggles for Dusty and Brayden?
11:09 And what was your first, whoa, experience on the road?
11:13 - Man, my first whoa, I remember playing at Arizona
11:17 when they were really, really good.
11:19 And I remember at the time,
11:20 and I think they probably still do it,
11:22 all of the stands, every person in that arena
11:26 would stand up until you scored.
11:28 And the crescendo of getting louder and louder and louder,
11:31 every single possession, and it took us a good six
11:33 or eight minutes to score first basket.
11:35 So I think that the decibels of what that plays was.
11:38 And so that was kind of,
11:39 we played some really tough road games.
11:41 Obviously Gary Payton was down to Oregon State
11:43 when they were one or two in the country.
11:44 There were some really good teams in the pack at that point.
11:47 Going back to the comment about a true freshman on the road
11:50 is certainly different.
11:52 Stromer had a number of really good looks
11:54 and God, he's been playing so well.
11:56 That USA game, I thought he was special.
11:59 All of a sudden, you can clearly see,
12:01 he's got a great feel for the game.
12:03 He started to knock down jump shots.
12:05 What I loved about it is he was pulling up from three
12:08 with confidence, early in the clock.
12:11 And that's what you want to see your freshman,
12:12 not all of a sudden overthinking,
12:14 right, is this the right shot?
12:15 'Cause when all of a sudden those voices get in your head,
12:18 they're too hard to get out.
12:19 And so that confidence of young kids
12:21 stepping up and taking those shots, and they both do it.
12:24 Unfortunately that night, is it the crowd?
12:26 Is it just jumper happens to be a little off?
12:28 I don't know, but it certainly wasn't the game
12:30 that they had at USC and what they've had so far this year.
12:33 And I think they'll quickly bounce back, right?
12:36 That learning curve, if you will, is steep.
12:39 And I think that Friday night we'll see against UConn.
12:44 - So Oregon State with Gary Payton,
12:45 when he was national player of the year,
12:46 how much junk did he talk?
12:48 - Oh, he would go, right?
12:49 What's interesting that year is they also played at Gonzaga.
12:53 That year Gonzaga was eight and 20.
12:56 They weren't very good.
12:57 And there was a story when he was,
12:59 Fitz was like, "Do not talk to him."
13:01 You're hoping that he doesn't really,
13:03 it's not on his radar, right?
13:04 - Sleepwalks through the game.
13:05 - And so Darryl May, got a start.
13:08 He's gonna go lock down GP.
13:10 And I think the second or third play,
13:12 D. May starts talking a little bit to Payton,
13:14 who then woke up, dunked on us,
13:17 and then pointed the Kennel Club,
13:18 and I think went off for about 40.
13:20 Man, he was good, right?
13:21 So competitive, and at the time could really, really score.
13:24 And those were some hard-nosed Oregon State teams.
13:28 So it was fun to be able to play with those types of guys
13:31 at the pack at that point in time.
13:33 - So let's get into Spokane, right?
13:37 How long you've been here.
13:39 - Are you gonna go back to this 30-year thing?
13:41 - Well, it's on our list, and we gotta do what she says.
13:45 So we gotta answer this.
13:46 - Oh, you put that on.
13:47 - Yeah, how has Spokane changed since the mid-90s?
13:51 (laughing)
13:52 Go for the economics of it.
13:53 - It took longer to park to get down here
13:56 than it did in the 90s? - Yeah, exactly.
13:58 Vision Quest wasn't current.
14:00 - Vision Quest.
14:01 Cash Stone.
14:02 - Cash Stone.
14:03 I watched that show with my boys the other night.
14:05 You know, obviously, one of the things that I loved,
14:09 you guys were probably just done playing,
14:12 and we're in the new arena.
14:14 And you're sitting next to the season ticket holders.
14:17 And so this family's sitting next to me,
14:19 they have two sweet girls.
14:20 I'm getting to know 'em, talking to 'em,
14:22 and one of 'em happens to be a senior in high school.
14:25 And I said, "What are you hoping to do next year?"
14:27 And she's like, "Well, I'm hoping to go here.
14:30 "I just got into Stanford, but I'm hoping to go here."
14:33 And I thought to myself, that is so cool
14:35 that the brand of Spokane, the brand of Gonzaga,
14:39 is becoming a magnet for someone in Spokane
14:41 that wants to stay here.
14:42 And I'm like, that's awesome.
14:43 And I said, "I think you'll probably get in
14:46 "after getting into Stanford."
14:48 So, man, it's changed.
14:50 High school basketball's changed so much.
14:52 One of the things I used to hate was the no-shot clock.
14:57 - Yeah, that was terrible.
14:58 - Oh, I remember--
15:00 - I played in it, too.
15:01 That was terrible.
15:02 - Adam, I remember literally playing
15:03 a really good Ferris team, right?
15:04 They were like chasing state titles.
15:07 And we went four corners, and we had a shot to beat 'em.
15:10 Dave Davies, what a really good point guard,
15:12 had a three-point shot to beat 'em at the buzzer,
15:14 rimmed in and out, and we got beat 21-19.
15:17 - Yeah. (laughing)
15:19 - So, high school basketball's changed as well.
15:21 - Yeah, Mo would have 21 points in a quarter
15:24 back in high school. (laughing)
15:26 - So, staying on the topic of Spokane,
15:29 the impact that Gonzaga has had on the community
15:33 and players staying here, what do you attribute that to?
15:38 The family feel that they've had when they were here,
15:42 the success that they would have,
15:44 being welcomed by local businesses now with NIL,
15:46 what do you attribute that to?
15:48 - First of all, I think it's awesome.
15:50 You and I, the three of us have talked about that.
15:52 I had that aha moment, I say, "Killy and Tilly."
15:54 And what's awesome is that foreign players
15:56 are choosing to stay in Spokane,
15:58 not just guys that happen to be born in Spokane.
16:01 And so, that begs the question, why?
16:03 And I think a lot of that is,
16:04 number one, is the community feel, right?
16:06 You have an entire city that embraces the Zags
16:08 in a really interesting and wonderful way.
16:11 I think that network is obviously vast,
16:14 of ability to come in and work for interest,
16:18 create interesting opportunities.
16:20 And at the end of the day, it's all about that network
16:22 of Zags and the Zag community.
16:24 So I think it's a number of those things,
16:26 where they feel comfortable,
16:28 their access to, call it opportunities, are unique.
16:31 And I love the fact that this is becoming kind of the de facto
16:35 is once you get done playing,
16:36 whether it's in the NBA or overseas,
16:37 a lot of guys are now choosing
16:40 to relocate in our wonderful city.
16:41 And I know I'm not totally unbiased by being a Spokane kid,
16:46 but I love to see what the city has done,
16:48 from innovations and technologies
16:50 and growing as a business community.
16:53 It's fun to see that.
16:55 I am proud to participate in that.
16:57 And I love just guys with talent and choosing to stay.
17:02 - Speaking of playing overseas,
17:03 you played in a number of different countries.
17:06 A lot of times we've had guys
17:08 that have played in different places
17:09 and asked for the most unique or off the wall story.
17:13 And some guys have just come up with some crazy ones
17:16 that I've talked to in years past.
17:18 Do you have any overseas stories
17:19 that people wouldn't believe it if they heard it?
17:24 - Well, first of all, again, dating myself,
17:26 when I played overseas,
17:28 the internet didn't basically exist, right?
17:29 There were no cell phones.
17:30 And so the world was so big,
17:32 you're literally writing letters to your former teammates.
17:35 That's how you communicated, right?
17:36 If you called home, it was literally a dollar a minute.
17:39 And so the world was just far, far bigger.
17:42 I remember, and it was hard, right?
17:44 It was lonely on the road.
17:47 One of my focuses, I didn't want to be the ugly American.
17:50 I wanted to really become great teammates with the guys,
17:53 the national guys.
17:55 As you guys know, the best teams are the guys
17:56 that have the best nationals, right?
17:57 The Americans kind of cross each other out,
18:00 neutralize each other.
18:02 Probably my craziest story, Dan,
18:03 is I was playing down in Argentina.
18:05 And Argentina was a little bit wild.
18:08 And they'd have fences around the basketball court.
18:12 And they're doing that 'cause you're getting hot pennies,
18:14 or the people are putting--
18:15 - Batteries.
18:16 - Batteries, throwing them at you.
18:18 And the road trips, the shortest we had
18:21 was eight hours one way.
18:22 The longest was a 17 hour one way bus trip.
18:25 And so down there, they had regulations.
18:27 So the top teams were gonna play for the championship.
18:30 The lower half, the first division,
18:31 you're paying not to go back down.
18:33 And that was my first year playing overseas.
18:36 And so midway through the season,
18:37 I went from a Spanish team over to Argentina.
18:40 I think I was the 11th American.
18:42 So they had fired 10 guys in front of me.
18:46 And they had been one of the teams
18:47 that were supposed to be in the second division.
18:49 At the very last minute,
18:51 the first team that was supposed to be
18:51 in the first division raised their hand,
18:53 said, "We can't afford it, we're out."
18:54 And my guys raised their hand and said, "Well, we're in."
18:56 So I had a second division team.
18:59 We're fighting for our lives,
19:00 trying to stay up in the first division.
19:02 And at the time, we're at this,
19:04 remember the 17 hour place away?
19:07 We're gonna go play in a playoff game.
19:08 And my team's running out of money, we're on fumes.
19:11 And at some point in that season,
19:13 a referee had been stoned to death after the game.
19:17 And the president, we're in the best of five series.
19:19 We go down there and we get smoked.
19:21 We're down 0-2, come home, we beat them two.
19:24 So now it's two to two, best of five.
19:25 My president's like,
19:26 "I'm not paying for the gas to go back down there.
19:28 There's no way we're gonna get beat or we're gonna win."
19:30 And I'm like, "Just pay for us, we'll go win."
19:33 And so he ends up saying, "Okay, let's go.
19:36 If you think we can win this game, Jeff, we'll go do it."
19:37 So we go down there, game five,
19:40 at the arena where the referee got that stoned to death.
19:43 And I remember going up for a lay-in and getting fouled.
19:46 Well, I thought I got fouled.
19:47 I still have a scar on my eyeball from there to there,
19:50 and I'm gushing blood, no foul.
19:52 I've got gauze around my head the rest of the game.
19:53 We got beat by 20.
19:55 And so just growing up by yourself,
19:59 figuring out what to go do, how to survive.
20:02 It sounds so glamorous.
20:04 And for those of us that have played over there,
20:05 it's not nearly as glamorous as it sounds.
20:07 And what you do is you appreciate what you had here so much.
20:11 And again, playing all over the world,
20:14 the cultures was awesome.
20:15 Seeing the different parts of the country.
20:19 For a kid growing up in Spokane,
20:20 when you're going to Spain,
20:21 what's it gonna look and feel like when I get off there?
20:24 Was really, really fun.
20:25 The basketball part of it was a grind, to be honest.
20:28 Going to two practices every day, only playing once a week,
20:30 hoping you get paid on time, sometimes not getting paid.
20:33 Those difficulties are where it becomes a real grind.
20:36 - Yeah, best memory at Guns Aga.
20:38 - My best memory at Guns Aga.
20:40 - Playing memory.
20:41 - Yeah, 'cause he's got a crew of Goss and Davis.
20:44 - I got a lot of memories, Mel.
20:45 This is short show, I got a lot of memories.
20:47 My best playing memory is the school I really wanted to go to
20:50 out of Meade with Stanford.
20:52 And I remember when the coach Montgomery sat down,
20:54 said, "Jeff, we're not gonna offer you."
20:57 Fast forward, after we were the first team
20:59 to win the league title in '94,
21:02 we got upset in the league tournament
21:03 and it was devastating, right?
21:04 We didn't get the first March Madness bid.
21:06 And the '95 team did with John Realey and the boys.
21:09 But what we did is we got the first postseason
21:11 and guess who we got matched up to?
21:12 Stanford.
21:13 And so before the game was a bit of,
21:16 Coach Montgomery was great,
21:17 but now I'm playing against the 6'10" stiff
21:19 that they did take in front of me.
21:21 So to be able to beat Stanford,
21:24 drop a few on the fellows they took over me
21:26 and get the first postseason
21:28 was a really cool memory for me
21:29 because it was a full circle kind of validation
21:31 of what we had done here as a program,
21:34 to go on the road and beat a good Pac-10 team.
21:37 And then personally to be able to say,
21:39 "Hey coach, maybe you should have offered me
21:41 instead of the 6'10" kid that can't play."
21:44 That felt really, really good.
21:45 So basketball-wise, that was probably my best memory.
21:47 - Best Fitz story,
21:47 I know this is gonna date a lot of people,
21:49 but I was a ball boy for Fitz,
21:52 I think it was '95, '96,
21:54 with Paul Rogers and Bakari.
21:56 What's your best Fitz story?
21:58 - Oh man.
21:59 - There's a lot, I know.
21:59 - There's so many.
22:00 - He helped me a ton after he was done.
22:03 - You know, Fitz is such a huge influence on my life, Mo.
22:08 I miss him.
22:09 - Same here.
22:10 - And what's funny is we got such an unusual crew.
22:15 At some point we decided,
22:21 we were at one of our really good friends' wedding
22:23 from Gonzaga and the toast was,
22:26 it's so special that all of our friends
22:28 were friends with our parents' friends
22:29 because they always did stuff together.
22:31 And so Marty Wall's wife, Kristen,
22:33 and I were sitting there during the toast.
22:35 I turned to Kristen and said, "We're doing that."
22:38 And so there's pictures of all of our kids
22:40 when they're like two and three
22:41 up at my cabin up at the lake
22:43 with all my teammates and wives.
22:45 And they all have a t-shirt on
22:48 that says, "Really good for the young guys,"
22:49 which is one of Fitz's classic sayings
22:52 with their last name on their shirt.
22:54 So I was dragging those out
22:55 as they're all coming up for the alumni game here in January
22:58 about the importance of Fitz.
23:00 I couldn't, again, I got a hundred stories about Fitz.
23:04 And maybe my best one is I transferred from UW
23:08 and went to our very first team meeting
23:09 up in the classroom there.
23:12 And I've got a notebook out and he's up there talking,
23:15 "Hey, we're in for the 22nd, you're out.
23:16 "We'll be back at 5.30, one practice, home two."
23:19 And I'm trying to take notes
23:20 and I'm having a hard time understanding
23:22 what he's even saying.
23:23 And I kind of look around, I'm like,
23:25 "No one else is taking a note."
23:27 So I assume we'll probably cover this,
23:29 if not twice or three times,
23:31 probably a hundred times before Christmas gets here.
23:33 And so his just unique way of communicating
23:36 and watching Fitz in high school,
23:39 watching him in a game, I thought he was nuts.
23:41 I thought like, he's a Bobby Knight,
23:44 I couldn't go play for that guy.
23:47 And that's what some people thought Fitz was about.
23:50 And it couldn't have been more opposite in practice
23:52 where it was all about teaching
23:55 and the fundamentals and the development
23:57 was never the yelling and screaming
23:58 and throwing the towel and stomping his foot.
24:00 That was like his show for the game.
24:02 And it was never like that in practice.
24:04 And at the end of the day,
24:05 he would always do anything for his players.
24:08 And when we do the Fitz tournament now
24:10 for the high school kids, I love it, right?
24:12 Part of that is the concept of giving back.
24:14 So all these high schools that come in
24:16 and play in the Fitz tournament,
24:17 go down to the Union Gospel Mission
24:19 and actually serve and give back
24:21 because Fitz had us do that all the time.
24:23 Again, the sense of always give back,
24:26 be better than yourself.
24:28 And my last story with Fitz is even to this day,
24:31 anytime in a business meeting, I'm in a conference room
24:34 and people, we get out of the conference room,
24:37 meeting's over, I'm always putting away chairs,
24:39 picking up the water bottles
24:40 because you always left the locker room
24:42 better than you found it.
24:43 So those little things that literally
24:45 he still impacts me every single day.
24:47 - He helped me out a ton when he started the Fitz camp
24:50 was my freshman year and just having,
24:54 you talk about the yelling and screaming,
24:56 but he did it to kind of make you understand
25:00 like this is Division I basketball.
25:01 This is what you need to be prepared for.
25:03 And then obviously I became a prospect.
25:07 And so he would have me go to his workouts
25:10 and then pull me aside and be like,
25:11 "Hey, this is what you really need to work on."
25:13 He knew my dad from the coaching ranks.
25:15 My dad was a Juco coach.
25:16 So he was always helpful of like,
25:19 "Hey, you're really great,
25:20 "but you're not good enough to play right now."
25:23 You know what I'm saying?
25:24 Like in a positive way, like,
25:25 "Hey, this is what you need to be prepared for
25:26 "for Division I basketball."
25:27 So I was always a Fitz fan as well
25:30 'cause as a young man, he always portrayed
25:33 or told me what you needed to be prepared for
25:37 when a lot of people at the time,
25:38 I was leading score, the state and all that stuff,
25:40 like probably weren't gonna tell me that stuff.
25:43 And so I always have a deal for Fitz too,
25:46 'cause he helped out a lot where the program is now.
25:50 He was the foundation of it, in my opinion.
25:53 And then what he did for high school basketball in Spokane.
25:55 - Yep.
25:56 And I remember going to see Mo, right?
25:58 I'm like, "I gotta go see this kid play at Meade."
26:00 So walked in there and watched him
26:03 and they had an unbelievable team.
26:05 Williams, I think was your point guard's name.
26:07 Super solid point guard.
26:08 Mo's of course scoring 25 a half.
26:12 But buckets were coming easy.
26:14 And I remember at some point,
26:16 walking a few of you across camp,
26:18 he's like, "Hey, Brownie, I think I'm gonna offer
26:19 "that your boy from Meade."
26:21 And I'm like, and all of a sudden,
26:23 it was like, "I think I'm gonna offer him to,"
26:24 then you became this, right?
26:26 Now I'm gonna offer him,
26:27 now he's gonna play as a true freshman.
26:28 And then watching you play during those fall runs
26:32 and all of a sudden you're like,
26:34 it's that game of what transfers, right?
26:36 So does the runner transfer
26:37 from high school basketball to division one?
26:40 Can you get that off or not?
26:41 And I remember watching, I'm drifting here a little bit,
26:45 but watching when Curry was at Davidson.
26:47 And I'm watching this kid, I'm like,
26:49 he shoots it from his hip.
26:50 He's like 6'1", he's not that quick.
26:52 Fellas, someone go guard him.
26:54 And all of a sudden he drops 40 on Duke the next game
26:56 and then the Warriors pick him.
26:57 I'm still not convinced he's that good.
26:59 So it's that transfer of that little jumper,
27:01 how quick is that thing?
27:02 And if you can't get it off, you can't play,
27:04 all of a sudden he changes basketball.
27:06 So it's those little things about what transfers
27:08 in each different level.
27:08 And I am notoriously awful from what will transfer
27:11 from college to the NBA, because the game is so different.
27:15 It's almost like the difference between cricket and baseball.
27:17 Yeah, you're trying to hit a ball.
27:19 Conceptually, there is some commonality,
27:21 but there is so much difference that,
27:23 you look at Drew Timmy and why is he not a lottery pick?
27:25 Well, it's just a different game.
27:27 Difference between baseball and cricket.
27:28 - That's one of the best examples I've heard
27:30 of comparing a guy to make it or not make it
27:33 with cricket and baseball, 'cause that's so true.
27:37 It is different.
27:38 But you guys were talking about Fitz for a bit,
27:40 and I always love hearing Fitz stories,
27:42 'cause I talked to him a couple times.
27:43 I don't know him very well by any stretch
27:45 when he was here.
27:47 But he had an unbelievable impact on Coach Few.
27:50 You were with Coach Few when he was a grad assistant.
27:53 I was a red shirt his first year,
27:56 and then he had to manage Mo's rock star status
28:00 for two years.
28:01 So Mo really put him on that national ascension
28:05 of everybody knows who Coach Few is.
28:07 What have you seen from him growth-wise as a coach?
28:10 'Cause I still see him evolving,
28:12 and he's a Hall of Famer in my eyes.
28:14 - Oh, he's a lock.
28:16 He's a lock Hall of Famer.
28:17 And if you really step back, and I've done this before,
28:20 like, okay, what programs you look at Duke?
28:24 Well, Duke at some point was really good
28:26 before Coach Gay got there.
28:28 And for Few to take this thing over,
28:29 most importantly, stay here.
28:32 I am so appreciative that he hasn't, right?
28:34 I remember being at his house for dinner,
28:35 and UCLA's calling him, like, this is nuts.
28:39 And he's believed in what he's had here.
28:41 I think the school and the board's done a great job,
28:44 and the community's done a great job
28:45 of supporting his vision of what it needs to become,
28:47 and supporting that.
28:49 And you watch him evolve,
28:50 and I think doing these things with USA Basketball,
28:54 and getting the influence of the pro game,
28:56 and how they kind of approach it,
28:58 I think just adds to his ability to go recruit,
29:01 helps with evolving how they play.
29:03 And it's been fun to watch that.
29:07 And now college basketball, college athletics
29:11 is so different, right?
29:13 I was watching the UW-Oregon Pac-12 Championship game,
29:17 and it bummed me out.
29:18 I grew up as a West Coast kid,
29:20 watching Pac-10 football,
29:21 and watching Pac-10 basketball,
29:23 and now it's-- - It's gone.
29:24 - It's gone.
29:25 It didn't have to be.
29:26 And so it's just, it's kind of,
29:28 it's a little concerning to see where this is going,
29:31 and how sustainable is that.
29:34 And if there's anybody that's going to lead it,
29:37 it will be Phu, and to figure out how that looks,
29:39 and where he wants to be.
29:40 And certainly, Chris Danifor's doing a great job,
29:43 and the evolution of that program, Dan,
29:46 has been significant, it really has.
29:48 - What are your takes, then, on conference realignment?
29:51 You touched on watching Pac-10,
29:53 Pac-12 football championship game,
29:55 and we've asked each guy that's come through.
29:58 I think the WCC has done everything they can
30:00 to prepare Gonzaga,
30:01 but the landscape's continuing to change.
30:04 And Mo's said this many times,
30:06 you don't want to get left behind.
30:08 If you looked into a crystal ball, what do you see?
30:11 - Man, I get concerned a little bit where it's going,
30:16 so then it becomes what's the next best spot, right?
30:19 You know, every conference is expanding,
30:21 so it's potentially the WCC looking at expanding, right?
30:25 What that might look like.
30:27 You know, BYU leaving, especially the year they're having,
30:31 you know, certainly waters down the WCC to a big extent.
30:34 And so, it's hard not to get excited
30:38 about potentially going into a bigger conference.
30:41 That said, it's also hard to say,
30:44 are we fixing something that's not broken?
30:45 - Yeah.
30:46 - You know, being into so many straight elite eights
30:50 and sweet 16s and the tournament,
30:52 being able to recruit guys here,
30:54 you kind of worry about that as well.
30:57 So, if I had a crystal ball,
31:00 I think that if there's anybody that would know
31:02 what the right answer, it would be Coach Phiu,
31:06 to say this is what I think is best
31:07 from a basketball perspective.
31:09 And there is also a host of other questions,
31:11 like, well, how about the other sports,
31:13 and how does that look, and what does travel,
31:14 and all the other things that kind of come with that?
31:17 - Yeah, I mean, the Big 12 question,
31:21 we've asked everybody that come in,
31:22 and it's such a dynamic question
31:26 with multiple answers that are logical.
31:28 WCC's great, but it's, the gym probably looks the same,
31:31 Pepperdine looks the same as when you played in it.
31:33 You know what I'm saying?
31:34 LMU, like Dan said, they just repainted it.
31:37 So, it'll be fascinating to see in the next few months
31:40 what that looks like for the Big 12.
31:42 I think you make a really good point.
31:44 You know, going to Sweet 16's, Elite 8's,
31:47 obviously we've had success,
31:48 but that has to do with how you're seated.
31:50 So, if you go to a bigger conference,
31:51 you go nine to nine when you're, you know,
31:53 do you get an eight or nine, or do you get a seven, 10?
31:55 Like, it's a lot of different stories.
31:57 So, it's fascinating to hear from other guys' perspectives
32:00 who've played in the WCC.
32:02 - And you guys know this all too well,
32:03 but playing that level of competition,
32:05 that's a grinder, right?
32:08 But also makes you prepared for the tournament,
32:11 where, you know, right now you're playing
32:12 your huge marquee games, obviously in the preseason
32:15 at neutral site courts.
32:16 But going home and home with the Kansas of the world
32:20 and those teams in the Big 12
32:24 certainly would arguably make you better
32:27 throughout the season.
32:28 When blowing out Pepperdine by 40 points, or LMU,
32:31 it's hard to get better when you're beating guys by 40.
32:33 They're just not pushing you that way.
32:35 So, that part of it I think will be really, really good.
32:37 But to your point, Mo, 500 conference record
32:41 is a pretty good season in some of those conferences.
32:44 And you're certainly not gonna go undefeated,
32:47 especially in some of those road environments.
32:49 And so, that whole part is exciting and interesting.
32:52 And at the end of the day, only a crystal ball
32:55 will tell what is the right decision.
32:57 And if we do get an invite without football,
32:59 there's also the other question.
33:01 - Yeah, that'll be an interesting one,
33:03 because no football.
33:04 That hamstrings you in a lot of people's eyes,
33:07 'cause then how do you divvy up the TV money?
33:09 How do you divvy up the school,
33:12 the scheduling for all the other sports,
33:13 and travel partners?
33:15 'Cause you'd have to change a few things for other sports.
33:17 But when you look at where Gonzaga's gone,
33:21 and you look at your part of one of the first,
33:26 I believe it was the first post-season team, right?
33:27 You guys went to NIT.
33:29 Is there one player, or maybe two players,
33:32 that if you could take from all-time Gonzaga,
33:33 you put 'em on your team,
33:35 and you could match up with anybody else
33:37 and beat them Gonzaga-wise, who might it be?
33:40 - Oh God, let me bifurcate that question a little bit.
33:43 Let's just say who would I grab?
33:45 And that's a hard question.
33:46 I was literally thinking through
33:49 all these wonderful eras and teams,
33:51 and how they flow together.
33:53 Turioff, and obviously the two of you,
33:57 and you get into Step,
33:58 and there's so many really, really good players.
34:01 And then you get into the modern guys, right?
34:03 And where Sabonis, my God, how good of an NBA player is he?
34:08 If you could take Sabonis, Chet,
34:11 and am I getting too many here?
34:13 - No, go for it.
34:14 (both laughing)
34:16 - The two of you, and I would be the towel guy on the bench,
34:18 I'd feel pretty good about that.
34:19 (both laughing)
34:22 Chet is so interesting defensively,
34:25 how much he changed the game.
34:27 And then of course, the unicorn offensively,
34:30 and then again, going to be able to translate that,
34:32 even with his frame in the NBA,
34:35 and watching what he's doing is unbelievable.
34:37 Sabonis is, I don't know,
34:39 an NBA team that wouldn't love him, right?
34:40 Said 75 ball screens a game, take about 12 shots,
34:44 go fetch it 14 times off the rim.
34:47 Like he's a perfect teammate to go win games in the NBA.
34:51 And then Suggs, and what he's been able to do with Magic.
34:54 So it's great to see these guys,
34:56 I don't know how many guys are in the NBA now,
34:58 but call it 10?
34:59 - I think 10 or 11.
35:00 I don't know if Petruschev is back in Europe,
35:03 so it's 10, yeah.
35:04 - So when you two were playing, right,
35:05 you weren't going to have dinner with the Zags
35:07 and the other team, there weren't too many of them in there.
35:09 And to be able to go do that now,
35:11 has got to be a pretty good feeling for those guys
35:12 when they're matching up and you see a guy or two
35:15 that you have a shared experience with,
35:17 man, that makes me proud to see how many guys
35:18 are doing that.
35:19 - Yeah.
35:20 Got anything else, Mo?
35:22 - It's good talking to you, man, meet Panthers.
35:24 - Go Panthers? - Go Panthers, yeah.
35:25 Go Panthers.
35:26 - Yeah, well, Jeff, it's been awesome
35:28 having you hang out with us for a bit.
35:30 I know you've got a lot of great stories.
35:32 We heard a lot of them.
35:34 And when I moved up to Spokane,
35:37 you were one of the first guys I connected with
35:38 'cause we were living in a similar area.
35:40 And the love and passion you have for Gonzaga,
35:45 you can tell when you tell the stories.
35:48 And so it's been great to have you on.
35:49 So appreciate you joining.
35:50 - I appreciate you guys having me.
35:52 I apologize for being 30 years out.
35:56 - Change of the demographic here on the show.
35:58 But again, thank you for what you two have done
36:02 for Gonzaga basketball and continue to support that.
36:05 Love hearing you both on TV and radio.
36:07 You both do an unbelievable job.
36:09 And again, to be able to tell that Gonzaga story
36:11 and the brand of the school.
36:12 I know this, our degrees are more valuable at Gonzaga
36:15 than when I came out, when no one knew
36:16 who that Gonzaga was.
36:18 And so it's been awesome for the school to tell that story
36:20 through the platform of Gonzaga basketball.
36:22 And we all have a small part
36:25 in building what that program's become.
36:26 And it's fun to see it and the culture of it
36:28 not changing significantly.
36:30 That's probably what I'm most proud of.
36:31 It's still the Zag way.
36:33 Let's be David, not Goliath.
36:35 Although that's changing a bit.
36:37 We're becoming a Goliath
36:39 and certainly the college basketball landscape.
36:41 So thank you both.
36:42 Thanks for having me.
36:43 - Absolutely.
36:44 There you have it.
36:45 One of the originals, Jeff Brown.
36:47 This has been Gonzaga Nation and Talking Zags
36:50 with Adam Morrison and Dan Dickow.
36:52 Thanks for joining.
36:53 (upbeat music)
36:56 (upbeat music)