Jim McPhee, one of the greatest scorers to suit up for Gonzaga, joined Talking Zags to discuss Drew Timme surpassing his scoring record and the state of the current Bulldogs team.
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Gonzaga Nation here with episode 15 of Talking Zags.
00:10 Your two hosts, myself, Adam Morrison,
00:13 along with special guest, Jim McPhee.
00:17 Kind of bridging the gap between the Stockton era
00:20 and the post-season assurgence of Gonzaga.
00:24 So, Jim, first off, thanks for joining.
00:26 Really appreciate it.
00:26 - Yeah, thanks for having me.
00:28 - Yeah, so our format, we like to talk about recent games,
00:31 kind of the team itself,
00:33 and then we'll get into a little bit about your experiences
00:35 and your view of the ascension of Gonzaga basketball.
00:39 So I guess we'll just jump right into
00:42 the expectations for Gonzaga
00:45 are so unbelievably high nowadays.
00:48 Ranked, I think, pre-season 12.
00:50 They've fallen out for the first time in a few years.
00:53 What do you see from this year's team?
00:56 - Well, I mean, I think even if you take a look at,
00:59 like, for example, the Santa Clara game,
01:00 I think they showed a lot of grit.
01:03 I think losing Steele obviously hurt them
01:06 and they had to juggle,
01:06 but what I'm kind of anxious and excited to see
01:09 is who's gonna step up and it puts Phew in a position
01:14 where he really needs to coach him up.
01:17 So it's from a fan's perspective,
01:19 we've been spoiled for so long,
01:21 and I think a lot of fans have short memories,
01:24 and the fans with longer memories,
01:26 I mean, we're getting into an area
01:28 where they're getting challenged
01:30 and they're having to make adjustments and figure things out.
01:32 So from my perspective as a fan,
01:35 I think it's really interesting.
01:36 - Yeah, I think it's absolutely fascinating
01:39 to see kind of the rotational changes
01:42 that have occurred throughout the course of the year.
01:43 Adam and I talked about it a number of different times
01:45 with, like, tweaking the starting lineup.
01:48 Not that Dusty Stromer shouldn't be a starter,
01:50 but Steele Ventures, as you mentioned,
01:52 was pegged to be the starter.
01:54 And I think moving Ben Gregg into that lineup
01:56 kind of balances out your substitution pattern.
01:59 - Yeah, yeah, I really like, I mean,
02:01 Ben Gregg, his energy and his ability to, you know,
02:04 score from different spots, I think is huge.
02:06 So, although I always say I've never felt
02:09 the will of the day in my life,
02:10 but I played against his dad, so.
02:12 (both laughing)
02:13 - What was that like?
02:15 - His dad was really tough.
02:16 - Yeah.
02:17 - At the University of Idaho,
02:17 and I think he transferred to L.C. State,
02:19 but just to see his dad and then be sitting there
02:22 at a Gonzaga game watching his kid play,
02:24 well, it's kind of nice, but again, makes me feel old.
02:27 - Yeah.
02:28 So, Mo, you weren't calling the game in Stockton.
02:33 No offense, I don't blame you.
02:34 - Yeah.
02:35 - I skipped that one, too, on the TV side.
02:37 I kind of had Richard Fox take that lead that day.
02:40 But you were, called the game against San Francisco at home.
02:45 Growth in the past 10 days, week or so, or what do you see?
02:48 - Yeah, I think, you know, the San Francisco game
02:51 was a good test for us.
02:52 They were in the 50s in the net coming into that game.
02:56 So, it's a team that's considered,
02:59 quote unquote, an NCAA tournament type team.
03:02 I really liked San Francisco's plan early.
03:05 I thought they had a really good schematic plan.
03:08 Defensively, they took EK right out of the game.
03:12 They were doubling from the first side,
03:13 from the strong side,
03:14 which you rarely see the full rotation, right?
03:17 But it's different to play against.
03:18 - I haven't seen that a lot since 20 years ago.
03:21 - I know, and it's different to play against.
03:23 And if you can't skip or ghost cut from the back side,
03:26 it makes it really difficult.
03:27 So, I thought that was a really good hard-fought win,
03:32 just for the fact that we elevated ourselves
03:34 in the second half,
03:35 and then we had to play through anxiety at the end.
03:37 You know, they made that run to come back.
03:39 I always think those type of games, you know,
03:42 it gives you something to put in the bank
03:44 for later down the road.
03:45 Hey, we had to make some free throws.
03:47 We missed some free throws.
03:48 We had to play, you know, in a situation
03:51 where we got to take away three, you know what I mean?
03:53 Like, and those type of wins are always good.
03:54 So, I was pleased.
03:57 You know, I saw some things where people were upset
04:00 that they only beat Pacific by nine.
04:02 We beat Pacific by nine last year at that place.
04:05 It was the same thing.
04:06 So, 'cause everybody's looking,
04:08 well, St. Mary's beat it by 48 or whatever.
04:10 It's like, match-ups are different.
04:12 - Yes.
04:13 - You know, this team is, can blow people out,
04:16 but they're not going to, like, teams pass.
04:20 So, a good solid win's a good solid win for us.
04:21 - Yeah, I agree with that.
04:23 They're not built for, like, a 22 run, like, years pass.
04:28 And a lot of it, I think, is based on the fact
04:30 that they don't shoot the three,
04:33 like teams have in years past.
04:34 The numbers have crept up a little bit
04:36 in the last month or so,
04:37 but they're still not a tremendous shooter.
04:39 Now, you, Jim, were one of the best shooters
04:42 in Gonzaga history in the early '90s.
04:45 Tell us a little bit about,
04:47 when you look at this ball club right now,
04:50 what do you gravitate towards on the perimeter
04:52 as a scorer, shooter, like you were?
04:54 What do you like,
04:55 or what do you maybe wish was improved upon?
04:58 - Well, it's a little bit different
05:02 just in terms of the time frame.
05:03 The three-point line was introduced,
05:04 I think, my junior year.
05:06 And so, now, what you're really looking for
05:07 is getting scores, you know,
05:08 if it's not close to the basket, it's outside.
05:11 And so, the mid-range game has kind of,
05:13 kind of gone to the wayside a little bit.
05:16 I think that, for me, a lot of it is a lack of hesitation.
05:21 You know, it's just, if you're,
05:24 and that's one thing that I like about,
05:26 you know, when Ben Gregg's rolling,
05:28 it's because, you know, I mean,
05:29 he's just catch and shoot, catch and shoot,
05:31 and it's really efficient.
05:32 There's not a lot of, you know,
05:33 second-guessing or anything like that.
05:35 So, just catching it in a position
05:37 to be able to shoot and just let it fly.
05:39 And to have that confidence
05:42 and to shoot yourself through some misses, so.
05:45 - If I remember right, you played for Dan Fitzgerald,
05:48 and Moen's told some stories about being a ball boy
05:50 on some of those Dan Fitzgerald teams,
05:52 but he's kind of like the,
05:56 unfortunately, the forgotten godfather of the program.
05:59 What was it like to play for him,
06:01 and then talk about the Wolf Flex offense?
06:03 - Oh, the playing for Fitz,
06:06 I mean, I was being,
06:09 going through the recruiting process,
06:10 and Fitz named himself,
06:12 he was the athletic director,
06:13 but then he replaced the head coach with himself.
06:15 He had been AD and head coach also.
06:17 And so, I called him that day,
06:19 and said, "I wanna go to Gonzaga."
06:21 Just 'cause I'd known Fitz,
06:22 'cause my brother played for Fitz.
06:24 And just, nobody's gonna work harder than him.
06:29 Loyal to a fault, and yeah,
06:31 he was loud, but if you worked as hard as he did,
06:36 there were just no issues whatsoever.
06:40 But the Flex offense is designed to be really methodical,
06:45 but also out of the Flex offense,
06:46 I think we had like 40 options outside of it.
06:50 And so, you can kind of lull the defense,
06:51 and just thinking that you're just running Flex,
06:54 and then you run the options off of 'em.
06:55 And if you do it right, I mean,
06:57 I'm playing with guys, just monsters,
06:59 like Dale Hallin and Roger Bach,
07:01 and they're laying these screens,
07:02 and I'm basically shooting practice jumpers all day,
07:05 which is one huge benefit of the offense.
07:08 - Yeah, I used to love,
07:09 'cause we ran quite a bit of Flex still,
07:11 and you're talking about the options.
07:13 If the ball gets thrown to a corner, it's a double away.
07:16 Or if you can manipulate an early switch,
07:18 switch counter, you push the big through,
07:20 and then you come off the down screen.
07:22 I think that was, for a smart player,
07:26 it was a great offense.
07:27 The evolution of Gonzaga's offense now,
07:30 to kind of five out at times, continuity ball screen,
07:33 how much fun would that have been for you?
07:35 - I think it would've been fun,
07:37 but I also think that the Flex was not a necessity,
07:42 but it was probably better suited
07:44 to the athletes that we had,
07:45 'cause the whole point of offense
07:46 is to get separation from the defense.
07:48 And if you've got great athletes,
07:50 and you've got the caliber of the players
07:51 that they have right now,
07:52 they can kind of create their own separation
07:54 in different ways.
07:55 But I appreciated the separation
07:58 that was being caused by six consecutive screens,
08:02 and I'm running my guy through 'em.
08:03 So I think in terms of the, like I said,
08:06 just getting separation from the defense,
08:08 Flex was a good fit for our team.
08:11 I don't know that it would necessarily
08:13 be a good fit for this team.
08:14 So I like the looks of how they run the current offense.
08:18 I'd like to think that I would have had success in it,
08:22 but I'm not so certain.
08:24 - Yeah.
08:25 Mo, obviously we've talked about this at different times.
08:29 Offensively, they've gone to a lot
08:30 of that continuity stuff, five out.
08:32 Any tweaks in the last couple weeks
08:33 that you've seen that is showing
08:37 some positive signs of life?
08:38 - Well, I mean, obviously we've shot it
08:40 a little bit better.
08:40 You alluded to that earlier from three.
08:44 33%, I don't know, it doesn't sound great,
08:46 but seven for 21.
08:47 So if you go effective field goal,
08:49 we get a point per shot.
08:50 I think we're just more effective
08:53 when our bigs get touches lower.
08:55 I mean, obviously our main focus is to get in
08:58 and to Graham, and then when Braden's in there.
09:00 Like against San Francisco,
09:02 when we catch it at 18 feet in the first half,
09:04 we're not very effective.
09:04 Second half, Graham gets his catches at six to eight.
09:08 So much a different story.
09:09 Double team doesn't matter.
09:10 You can make your move.
09:11 So I think that's the biggest adjustment I've seen.
09:14 You know, Nemhardt had a great week last week.
09:18 I think it was 20 turnovers, zero assists.
09:20 So he's playing a lot slower in a good way.
09:23 He's been good this season,
09:25 but in conference plays, played a lot better,
09:27 especially shooting the three.
09:29 But it's gonna be, we're a game to game team this year.
09:32 Right?
09:33 I mean, and there's nothing wrong with that.
09:34 It's just, we're kind of a game to game team
09:37 and the matchups are gonna matter more
09:39 against other personnel.
09:41 And so, you know, like this week coming up
09:44 with St. Mary's, it's gonna be interesting
09:46 to see how we play them, 'cause they play really slow
09:48 and we obviously try to play fast.
09:49 So it'll be interesting.
09:51 - Well, St. Mary's has become the rival
09:54 over the last 12, 15 years.
09:56 When I was there, the rival was Pepperdine.
09:59 They were unbelievably good, talented.
10:01 They had athletes, they junked it up defensively.
10:03 They had a good coach.
10:05 Each of you guys, give me who the main rival was
10:08 at that time, 'cause I think it was--
10:10 - St. Mary's for us.
10:11 - It was the start of it.
10:12 - The start of it, it was Kickert and Paul Marigny
10:15 and then EJ Rowland, I think, was the guard.
10:18 So they were starting to become, you know,
10:21 like a 20 win type team, season team.
10:24 So St. Mary's for us, for sure.
10:25 - Yeah, and how about when you were at GU?
10:27 - I think it was, for a period of time, Santa Clara.
10:30 They're just similar programs
10:31 and it was just really a smash mouth,
10:33 you know, kind of basketball.
10:35 You know, Pep had good teams, St. Mary's as well,
10:38 but then for a couple of years,
10:39 Loyal of Marymount with Hank Gathers
10:41 and Bo Kimble dominated.
10:43 I'd like to call it a rivalry, but a little one-sided.
10:46 - Did you play, so you did match up against those
10:49 Loyal of Marymount teams.
10:50 I think that would have been unbelievably fun
10:53 'cause like your scoring average just skyrocketed
10:56 'cause you played them two or three times a game
10:58 or a season.
10:59 What was that like?
11:00 What was that offense?
11:01 - It was like a rap ball with uniforms and refs.
11:04 I mean, they're almost baiting you to shoot.
11:06 It's like two for you, three for me.
11:08 So, and it was, I mean, I played them three times
11:10 my senior year and averaged over 40 against them.
11:14 But I'll tell you what, getting 20 against a Santa Clara team
11:19 you know, or a St. Mary's team was a lot harder
11:23 than getting the 40 against Loyal of Marymount.
11:25 - Yeah, wow.
11:27 That would have been fun to have played in that.
11:30 I guess that's the NBA these days.
11:32 I mean, Mo, right?
11:33 You see NBA teams averaging 125, 130.
11:36 It's almost similar because you can't touch a guy.
11:38 Otherwise it's foul in the space
11:40 and then the skill that the guys have.
11:41 - Yeah, with West head there, he really got it rolling.
11:44 It was just a tragedy with Hank
11:46 'cause that happened at the league tournament
11:47 when he passed away.
11:49 I mean, he was playing the University of Portland,
11:51 you know, alley-oop dunk.
11:52 And by the time he got to half court,
11:53 he just kind of went down.
11:55 - Yeah, yeah, I was a kid and I remember
11:59 'cause I followed all the college basketball at the time.
12:01 That was sad.
12:02 - Yeah, they were a phenom.
12:03 - Yeah.
12:04 Injuries have always played a role.
12:07 You mentioned you touched on Steele,
12:09 but Luca's still out.
12:11 I would imagine he's close.
12:13 How important is it to get another ball handler
12:15 on this roster right now?
12:16 - Yeah, I think he's probably a week away.
12:18 They suited him up against San Francisco
12:20 and obviously he wasn't gonna play,
12:21 but he was out in the layup line.
12:23 It's huge for us because, you know,
12:27 it's been a topic of discussion.
12:28 It's been a fair argument seeing Ryan
12:31 and Nolan's numbers or minutes throughout the season,
12:35 you know, obviously elevated.
12:37 Now is Luca gonna play a ton?
12:38 No, but would it be nice in my opinion
12:41 to steal three minutes a half
12:42 for either one of those guys?
12:44 Absolutely.
12:46 But now you're going, okay,
12:47 we're about halfway through conference.
12:50 What type of games do you wanna put them in, right?
12:53 To get them ready.
12:54 I think he's comparable.
12:55 I thought he was gonna play at the start of the season
12:58 when I watched him in practice.
12:59 I really liked his game.
13:00 I think he's just solid, you know, tough,
13:03 all those things that you want
13:05 from a backup ball handler.
13:07 But it'll be interesting,
13:08 but it'll be nice to have just in case,
13:11 'cause then he can slide Dusty over.
13:12 It just gives you so many more options.
13:14 So hopefully he's ready to go.
13:16 'Cause it was a freak accident how he injured himself.
13:18 So, yeah.
13:19 - I think what one of the things Adam said
13:21 is really important.
13:22 I mean, he'll obviously add to the depth
13:24 and will be a huge help,
13:26 but it's the transition back in
13:28 and being able to manage that correctly.
13:30 Like Adam was saying, which game and how long,
13:32 because I mean, the transition back from injury,
13:34 you don't feel,
13:35 sometimes you don't feel like a participant.
13:37 It's almost like the game's going on around you.
13:39 And then at some point in time
13:41 that nobody can really predict,
13:42 all of a sudden you're back in.
13:43 And so it's a matter of keeping the confidence up
13:46 and just getting them into the right situations
13:49 to try to accelerate that as fast as possible
13:51 without rushing it.
13:52 - Yeah, that's a fine line for a player.
13:54 It's a fine line for a coaching staff.
13:56 Now you played when Coach Few just arrived to Spokane.
14:00 - Right.
14:01 - So you've seen him go from young grad assistant
14:05 to assistant, and then now a future Hall of Fame coach.
14:10 Tell us about maybe,
14:11 tell us about your first memory,
14:14 recollection of Coach Few at practice
14:16 or individual skill development,
14:19 and then what you see now.
14:22 - My first memories of Coach Few were funny.
14:27 I mean, really, it was Few and Munson.
14:31 And they brought a combination of just their quick,
14:36 quick wit, but at the same time, calling players out,
14:41 which wasn't something that the coaching staff
14:44 had really done, I think, before then.
14:46 It was just a different approach.
14:48 And I really appreciated that.
14:50 And then the other thing about Coach Few was,
14:53 I mean, I was at the gym all the time, day and night,
14:56 and I don't think there was a time I was there
14:58 that he wasn't.
14:59 And so the fact that we had a grad assistant,
15:01 and you know what grad assistant comp is,
15:05 and I put comp in quotes,
15:07 but that he was working it that hard,
15:10 we just appreciate somebody that is putting in
15:12 the same time you are.
15:14 - My first, one of my first memories when I was at Gonzaga
15:19 was individual skill development.
15:21 And I mentioned the quick wit.
15:23 He didn't like one of the drills that I was doing,
15:25 and he came over, and I don't ever want to see you
15:27 do that one again.
15:28 So I made sure I didn't do that drill
15:30 when he was in the gym again.
15:31 I'd do it on my own time.
15:33 But then I remember there was another time,
15:35 he was late to our individual workout, group workout,
15:39 because I think he had either been fishing or something,
15:44 'cause he had a flannel on, he had boots on.
15:46 We know how many times practice would be
15:49 pushed back for that.
15:50 But he handed us a fish and wildlife flyer,
15:55 and asked us if we knew the difference
15:57 between a grizzly bear and a brown bear.
15:59 I think it was me and Jermaine Forbes,
16:02 it was from London, England at the time,
16:03 we're looking at each other,
16:04 we had no idea what we were trying to figure out.
16:08 So that was kind of along the lines.
16:09 Did you have any stories like that, Mo,
16:11 where you just kind of?
16:14 - Yeah, some of them, I guess.
16:16 I mean, Fuey was the stalwart by then.
16:20 So, and he's changed, he's different now
16:23 than he used to be.
16:25 He used to be more kind of rigid, I guess, back then,
16:29 but now he's a little bit more personable with the guys.
16:31 And I think he made that change probably about a decade ago
16:34 to when the recruiting got to a different level.
16:38 When we had an opportunity to get McDonald's
16:39 All-American type kids,
16:41 I think he kind of had to open up himself a little bit.
16:45 So yeah, some of my stories
16:46 are probably not good ones to tell.
16:48 I know that's not a bad thing,
16:50 but it's just, he's a different coach now.
16:53 - Yeah, well, I think he's gotten more open
16:57 with the national media, at least.
16:59 - Yeah, he's figured the game out.
17:01 - Yeah. - That's what it is.
17:02 - I mean, that's what Calipari has been so unbelievable at,
17:05 is like, hey, you want the best players,
17:07 you need to have the most exposure,
17:09 and you need to pump them up,
17:11 and you got to create opportunities
17:13 for those players to be seen as well.
17:15 - Yeah, they were, I mean, creating season-long plans
17:18 that had never been seen.
17:19 So, I mean, each year he's in uncharted territory,
17:22 which has to be somewhat uncomfortable
17:24 because he can't just pick up the phone,
17:26 call a prior coach and say,
17:27 "How did you handle this situation?"
17:29 You know, and in some respects,
17:30 he's doing that at breakneck pace,
17:33 and he's doing it by himself on the fly.
17:35 And so I think that just in and of itself
17:38 would make you a little bit, you know, uncomfortable
17:42 and being concerned you're driving faster
17:43 than your headlights, but he managed it.
17:45 - Yeah, for sure. - That's a good point.
17:47 - As it sits right now, like, there's,
17:50 the bracketologists are starting to come out left and right.
17:52 I mean, there's probably 15 reputable bracketologists.
17:56 Some of them have Gonzaga as the last four in.
17:59 Some of them have the first four out.
18:01 You comfortable with this team
18:05 getting into the NCAA tournament
18:06 if they don't win the conference tournament title in Vegas?
18:09 - Tough question.
18:12 What I'm confident in is the type of guys that we have
18:17 and the coaches that we have,
18:20 and the fact that the team that we have right now
18:23 is not going to be the team that we have in, you know,
18:26 in a month, and it's not going to be the team
18:27 that we're going to have later than that.
18:28 I mean, who cares?
18:30 Who cares how you're playing in November, December?
18:32 I mean, what this team is going to be, you know,
18:36 come the NCAA tournament, I don't think anybody knows,
18:38 but based upon the type of guys we have
18:42 and the coaching staff we have,
18:43 I'm real confident that we'll end up getting in.
18:45 - Yeah.
18:46 - Yeah, I mean, if you look at the net,
18:48 we're in the mid 30s now, or lower 30s,
18:50 so that keeps climbing and it changes,
18:53 obviously, almost every day.
18:55 I think if we're in that meat of the net ranking,
18:59 if we don't win, I think we still have a good chance.
19:02 Now, if we beat Kentucky at their place,
19:04 that gives us a really, really, really good chance
19:07 to get in.
19:08 - Yeah.
19:09 - But, you know, to be fair, to be a devil's advocate,
19:11 we don't have a major, like, quad one win.
19:14 San Diego State's, let that one go.
19:17 University of Washington's okay, but they're not great,
19:20 and then, obviously, Purdue and UConn.
19:22 So, it is fair to be like, if you don't win the tournament,
19:26 will they get in?
19:28 And it's like, it's kind of a coin flip, in my opinion,
19:31 and obviously, like, Linardi and those guys
19:32 that are doing the bracketology
19:34 are pretty spot on every year.
19:36 So, I think it's, you know, obviously,
19:39 we gotta stack some of these West Coast Conference wins,
19:43 and if we can get San Francisco again,
19:44 and if we can get St. Mary's twice,
19:45 those are two or three really good wins, four total.
19:49 So, that will help, obviously, and like I said,
19:52 I think if you're in the mid-20s to lower 30s in the net,
19:55 I think you're almost in, right?
19:58 - Well, I believe--
19:59 - You'd probably know better than I would on that.
20:00 - Yeah, I believe that this morning, when I looked,
20:02 I think they were at 30 in the net.
20:04 But you go on the road at Pacific and you win,
20:07 you go the wrong direction in the net,
20:09 'cause Pacific's so bad.
20:11 St. Mary's was, I think, 18 in the net.
20:14 They beat LMU, and they go to 22.
20:16 So, you know, you kinda gotta play devil's advocate
20:20 a little bit, and like, understand, okay,
20:22 we beat Portland, we beat, you know, LMU, these teams,
20:25 you're probably not gonna go up in the net,
20:26 or in the correct direction,
20:28 but if you take care of St. Mary's,
20:30 you're gonna shoot back up.
20:32 If they beat San Francisco on the road,
20:36 'cause that'll be a quad one opportunity,
20:37 as long as they stay in that 15 target zone,
20:42 that'd be another.
20:43 But I think if they're top 32, 33 in the net,
20:46 I don't think there's any way they're getting out.
20:48 But they gotta get that.
20:50 They gotta beat St. Mary's at least twice.
20:52 - Yeah, they gotta get the two wins.
20:54 Obviously, we got the one who gets San Francisco,
20:55 so three left.
20:57 We gotta get those, and then obviously,
20:58 least, in my opinion, get to the final.
21:00 - Yeah.
21:01 - For the West Coast Conference.
21:02 - 'Cause that's gonna add more opportunities.
21:04 You probably would have another quad,
21:06 at least quad two, maybe quad one opportunity
21:08 in the tournament.
21:09 - Yeah, it'll be interesting, but it's, you know,
21:13 we've had teams like that in the past.
21:15 I think it was the year after I was there
21:16 with Kuso and Pendo that year.
21:19 You know, they didn't have a great non-conference,
21:22 and then they figured out and won the tournament.
21:23 So, I'm pretty sure these guys understand
21:27 what's at stake, you know,
21:28 as far as a program type of thing.
21:30 - Well, I know for me, like our group,
21:34 they had just come off the Elite Eight and Sweet 16.
21:38 So, my group, my junior year,
21:39 we didn't want it to end on us.
21:40 Not a single group wants the streak to end on them,
21:44 'cause then you get really looked at,
21:48 like what happened?
21:50 So, there is a lot of pressure.
21:51 - Well, it'd be a scarlet letter in Spokane.
21:53 I mean, if you're the team that does make
21:55 the NCAA tournament, and that's just the reality.
21:57 - It's a fact, yeah.
21:58 - That's the reality of it.
21:59 So, it'd be interesting.
22:00 I think this club's got a great opportunity
22:02 to surprise people.
22:04 I mean, what's our record now?
22:07 - 15 and five, I believe.
22:09 - Five, yeah, so you know.
22:09 - Which I think is about what we were last year.
22:11 - We were 15 and five last year
22:12 when we lost to LMU at home.
22:15 And everybody told me that we were doomed,
22:17 and then we go to Elite Eight, right?
22:19 So, sometimes we have to take a step back
22:22 and just really look at the totality of our personnel,
22:27 and then how they are progressing.
22:30 Like Jim said earlier, who cares how you played in November?
22:32 How are you playing now?
22:33 And we're seeing trends in the right direction.
22:36 I mean, if we make free throws,
22:37 we beat Santa Clara in first place, right?
22:39 So, then there's a lot of counters to what
22:42 some of the detractors are what people are saying
22:46 about what this team can't do.
22:49 It's like, well, they are pretty good defensively.
22:52 They are pretty good offensively.
22:53 We're averaging 86 points a game.
22:55 We got two really good scores inside.
22:58 Anton's having his best season of his career.
23:01 Back court's pretty good, you know what I mean?
23:02 So, it's kind of like,
23:04 sometimes you need to just relax a little bit.
23:05 - Well, I think the expectations
23:07 have been just sent through the roof.
23:09 - Yeah.
23:10 - They're so high.
23:11 - It's true.
23:12 - I mean, at some point, a first round tournament exit,
23:16 even though I don't want to see it, is gonna happen.
23:19 I mean, eight straight Sweet 16s is,
23:22 anybody in the country,
23:24 if you haven't won a national title,
23:25 you would trade for that.
23:26 - Yeah.
23:27 - It's just a fact of the matter.
23:29 You, Jim, were on one of the teams
23:32 that was kind of built the foundation
23:34 to get Gonzaga into the postseason,
23:36 but you didn't get to experience the postseason,
23:38 if I'm correct.
23:39 - Right.
23:40 - You were a senior when the group
23:41 that made the first NCAA tournament were redshirting.
23:44 When you look back at that,
23:47 do you wish those guys would have played with you,
23:48 so maybe you could have made a run?
23:51 - Ultimately, my answer's no.
23:53 Selfishly, yes.
23:54 I'd love playing with those guys.
23:55 I mean, they were all redshirted.
23:57 I mean, the redshirt's what they used to be.
23:59 They'd wear the green jerseys.
24:00 They'd go practice the other team's offense,
24:02 and then at some point in the practice,
24:04 they'd come into the gym,
24:05 and they'd be kind of apologetic,
24:07 like, "Oh, we're gonna run the other team's offense
24:09 "against you for a little bit."
24:10 And then you had this redshirt team,
24:11 and they were cohesive, and they were fired up,
24:13 and they'd come in and try to just tee it up and kill you.
24:17 That mentality that they had,
24:20 I really wish could have been a part of our team,
24:22 but my answer ultimately is no,
24:25 because in hindsight, what a genius move.
24:27 I mean, they took these guys,
24:28 and they turned over, you know,
24:30 Few and Munson and Fitz, turned over every stone,
24:33 'cause they weren't necessarily going after,
24:35 who's the top recruit we can get?
24:36 They were going after a type of guy.
24:38 You know, it's almost like the hockey movie "Miracle,"
24:41 where it's like, okay,
24:41 I'm not taking the statistically best players,
24:43 but these guys are the guys that I want,
24:46 and it really paid off.
24:48 So in hindsight, I mean, obviously,
24:50 I wouldn't change a thing.
24:52 I mean, they get 19 wins the next year,
24:54 and then the next year, they thump Stanford and the NIT,
24:57 and it was just beautiful.
24:59 - Yeah, I love how you put that.
25:00 Not necessarily the best players are highest rated,
25:02 but it's the players that fit,
25:04 and that's what Gonzaga's done such a good job of,
25:07 finding the guys that fit.
25:08 That doesn't necessarily happen in college athletics
25:11 for the long haul, because of the transfer portal.
25:14 Guys get frustrated with minutes, they leave,
25:17 and I think that's something we have a chance to see
25:19 how that plays out this week,
25:20 'cause Gonzaga plays Loyola-Maramount,
25:23 and Dom Harris, who was a part of the program
25:25 for three years, is a leading scorer,
25:28 the second leading scorer on LMU.
25:31 You think there's any added juice to his game this week?
25:34 - Yeah, no, he's shooting 43% from three as well,
25:37 so it'll be interesting to see how we defend him,
25:40 and then how he kind of gets a scouting report
25:45 for his own team, obviously, knowing all the actions,
25:49 hand signals, all that stuff.
25:50 So, I'm happy for Dom, happy for Afton Reed,
25:53 happy for Hunter Silas, they've had great seasons,
25:55 leaving sometimes it is fit.
25:57 You know, it's not just schematic,
26:01 or sometimes you need to change a pace,
26:03 or you need different coaching staff.
26:05 So I'm happy for him, but it is kind of funny,
26:08 he's shooting 43% from three, it's like--
26:10 - And that's what Gonzaga needs.
26:12 Threat from the arc.
26:14 - But, you know, things happen, so it'll be interesting.
26:18 'Cause Dom's a good player, he plays kind of crazy, right?
26:22 I mean, you've seen him a couple times
26:24 when he played for us, he'd shoot from like 30 feet,
26:26 no conscience, which is okay, but if it's not going in,
26:29 you can shoot your team out of it.
26:31 But when he gets hot, he's had multiple
26:33 30-point games this season, so I'm happy for him,
26:36 'cause I've always heard he was a good kid,
26:37 and well-rounded, good family, so it'll be interesting.
26:41 It's gotta be weird playing against a friend
26:44 that was just there, right?
26:46 So, interesting.
26:48 - Well, I'm sure the Kennel Club's gonna be fired up
26:50 to chant some things, Kennel Club was just in its infancy
26:54 when you were there getting going.
26:56 I've been critical of the Kennel Club the last couple years,
26:59 'cause I haven't thought they've brought the energy.
27:02 Nolan Hickman got 'em going the other day,
27:03 and it went viral on Cole Forsman,
27:06 one of our journalist social media pages,
27:08 but give us your take on the Kennel Club when you played,
27:13 and then just how cool it is to see what it's become,
27:16 as far as nationally recognized.
27:18 - Yeah, when I was there, obviously smaller,
27:22 just as committed, and had the opportunity
27:25 to be more organized, so they could come dressed up
27:30 as the opposing coach, and mock 'em all,
27:33 they could all come dressed as Father Tony one game,
27:36 but they were really, really organized,
27:38 and so it was a really specific approach
27:41 towards the team or towards the coach
27:43 that you were playing against,
27:44 most of the time just hilarious.
27:46 But that's the part that you just can't recreate
27:49 when you've got three or four sections worth
27:51 of the student body.
27:53 I mean, the commitment, obviously,
27:56 with them showing up is there,
27:58 but I think what we got was a little more individualized,
28:03 an individualized approach from the Kennel Club.
28:05 - Any truth to the rumor that Fitzgerald
28:08 would send a couple kegs to a house
28:10 for the students before pregame?
28:13 - Well, he probably had a few buffers.
28:15 - Awesome.
28:19 Mo, your memories with the Kennel Club,
28:22 do you ever do the dance, like dancing in front of it,
28:24 like Nolan?
28:26 - No, not like that, but Zombie Nation just came out,
28:30 so it was a little bit more intense,
28:33 and then I played in both buildings,
28:36 and so the building was new my sophomore year,
28:39 so the energy was crazy, it was different.
28:43 And then it's a fair thing you gotta say
28:45 about the Kennel Club is the University
28:50 took over the Kennel Club probably 10 years ago,
28:53 so when you talk about the visceral approach
28:58 between the older Kennel Clubs and the newer ones,
29:01 that's why the chants are not as mean or anything now,
29:06 it's because the University owns it.
29:07 - They're controlled a little bit more.
29:08 - They're controlled.
29:09 The old Kennel Club, it used to be you got a K cup,
29:12 and they would have a K at one of the members' house,
29:16 you'd get lubed up, and then you'd go to the game,
29:19 and that's why it was different.
29:20 And then there was no, it was just a different
29:24 non-PC time, pre-9/11.
29:27 - That's a good way to put it.
29:28 - It's just different.
29:29 So the energy's been fantastic the last two years.
29:33 Four years ago, it wasn't very good,
29:37 and it was like pin drop,
29:38 but I think the University's done a good job
29:40 of trying to get 'em more excited.
29:42 They brought in the DJ, I think they do social events before,
29:46 and that was always my concerns,
29:48 like look, we can complain about kids' energy,
29:51 but kids are different now, there's more things to do.
29:54 - Yeah, people watch the game on your phone.
29:56 - Watch it on your phone, exactly.
29:58 So you have to get to their level and engage.
30:01 We can't be get-off-my-lawn people.
30:03 And so I think they understood that,
30:05 hey, social's every once in a while.
30:08 Maybe have a DJ come in, like I said,
30:10 get 'em hyped up, give 'em free stuff,
30:13 then they'll come in.
30:14 So they've been a lot better.
30:15 - Couple last questions, Jim, before we wrap up.
30:20 But conference realignment has kinda just been
30:25 at the forefront for a long time for Gonzaga.
30:27 We typically ask pretty much every guest
30:31 their opinion of the WCC versus going to maybe the Big 12,
30:35 which has been rumored, the Mountain West a few years back.
30:39 When you look at all this changing landscape,
30:41 do you like it, do you dislike it?
30:43 What do you see in the future for Gonzaga?
30:46 - I dislike the change.
30:50 And when it comes to Gonzaga, switching conferences,
30:54 you've got all that negative argument
30:56 as it relates to the WCC, but at the end of it,
31:00 I don't have a crystal ball,
31:01 and I don't know what that change would bring.
31:05 And you take a look at the past however many years,
31:08 and it's not broke.
31:10 I mean, it used to be if we're playing at a lower level
31:13 during the regular season,
31:14 and so we'll never make the final game.
31:15 And now we've made the final game twice,
31:18 and so it's not broken.
31:21 We can do it within this league.
31:22 And so from my perspective, if it's not broke,
31:26 what is it that we're trying to fix?
31:29 - Yeah, I've warmed up a little bit
31:31 to the fact of moving to a bigger conference,
31:33 just because Adam's made the comment,
31:35 you don't want to be left as the only one
31:37 not in the new party.
31:39 But I do believe and agree with you
31:41 that the WCC has gotten Gonzaga ready
31:43 on multiple occasions for the biggest stage.
31:46 - And I'm gonna commandeer this right now,
31:49 'cause I'm gonna tell you something about Adam Morrison
31:51 that Adam would never tell you in a million years.
31:53 So my son played at Meade High School,
31:55 which is where Adam played.
31:56 And when he was playing at Meade High School,
31:59 Adam helped coach.
32:01 He would show up as early as any kid wanted to show up,
32:04 and he'd stay as late as any kid wanted to show up.
32:06 But when it came to game time, Adam's not on the bench.
32:09 He's up in the stands with his daughters, right?
32:11 Just 'cause he doesn't want the limelight,
32:12 but he wants to be there and he wants to help.
32:14 Now, move back like three or four years,
32:18 and it's my son and his buddies going up to a gym up north
32:23 with his dad there.
32:25 And his dad would just set up shop,
32:27 set out a fold-out chair and sit there.
32:29 Any kid that wanted to come and work
32:30 and work on the fundamentals and work on it the right way,
32:33 his dad was there.
32:34 And that's stuff that you never hear about.
32:36 But when you talk about the fabric of the type of guys
32:39 that we have at Gonzaga and the fabric of, you know,
32:42 Spokane basketball and what makes it up,
32:44 I mean, the Morrisons are entrenched in it.
32:47 So anyway, I wanted to say thanks.
32:49 - Thank you, yeah.
32:50 - No, my son has gone through,
32:52 went through quite a few workouts with Adam's dad.
32:55 And game shots, game spots, game speed.
32:57 That was a constant mantra throughout all the workouts,
33:00 and they were good stuff.
33:01 It was all game-worthy skills that were worked on.
33:06 You played right after John,
33:10 and I always looked at John as kind of like the standard
33:13 for Gonzaga basketball.
33:15 He was early in his NBA career when you were at Gonzaga.
33:18 How was it working out with him,
33:20 going through open gyms,
33:22 when he was kind of climbing that ascension
33:24 of being a future Hall of Famer?
33:25 - Yeah, what I, one of the,
33:27 the time that it all changed was
33:31 there was one off season.
33:32 It's when John really started to make his mark
33:34 because he played, you know,
33:35 they brought him up a little bit slowly,
33:37 but then right when he had arrived,
33:38 I mean, it seems like at the end of every NBA season,
33:40 there's a guy, you know,
33:41 it's a guy that everybody's watching.
33:42 And when that happened to John,
33:44 I mean, John's playing softball
33:45 on the Jack and Dan softball team.
33:46 John's going out with us, doing whatever we're doing,
33:49 and it changed in a summer.
33:50 And that was really interesting to see.
33:52 But the one thing that didn't change was his approach
33:55 'cause he's just a blue collar lunch pail guy.
33:59 And so for me, I'd stay in the summers
34:02 and just so that I could work out with him,
34:03 do everything that he's doing,
34:04 just trying to, you know,
34:05 maybe some of that's going to rub off on me.
34:08 But he didn't change a bit,
34:13 but it was really interesting to see
34:15 that he just, his life had changed 100%.
34:19 - Yeah.
34:20 You're the second all-time leading scorer
34:22 in school history.
34:23 Drew Timmy broke your record last year.
34:26 I'm sure anybody selfishly would love to hold a record,
34:29 but at the same time, records are meant to be broken.
34:32 And Drew Timmy is an all-timer.
34:34 What was going through your mind
34:37 as it was leading up and then when he broke it?
34:39 - To me, you see a good guy having success as a Zag,
34:43 I mean, how cool is that?
34:45 I mean, there's not a downside.
34:47 So I was really happy for him.
34:50 And I always say I'm number four,
34:53 if you're counting Courtney VanderSloot.
34:55 - Yeah, good point.
34:56 That's true.
34:57 - Awesome.
34:58 Moe, you got any last questions for Jim?
34:59 - No, I appreciate you coming on.
35:01 - No, thanks.
35:02 - Go Panthers, right?
35:03 - That's right.
35:03 That's right.
35:04 - I'll fight that one.
35:06 I'll say go Wildcats, 'cause my son goes to Mount Spokane.
35:09 So I know that rivalry game's coming up
35:10 in the next week or two, but yeah, Jim,
35:12 appreciate you joining.
35:14 - Thanks.
35:14 - As always, Moe and I love getting a chance
35:16 to hear some other guys' experience,
35:19 their viewpoints and their stories.
35:20 So thanks.
35:21 - Yep, appreciate it.
35:23 - We're talking Zags, episode 15.
35:25 Adam Morrison and I were joined by Jim McPhee.
35:29 (upbeat music)
35:31 (upbeat music)