Unpacked Podcast S1: The Wild World of Ethical Animal Tourism

AFAR

In this episode of the podcast, Unpacked, by AFAR, Byron Pace, a British filmmaker, photographer, and podcaster, and explores the nuances and complexities of ethical wildlife tourism.  Read the story here: https://rebrand.ly/99icwwl Read more here: https://rebrand.ly/5ku2xng  Subscribe to Unpacked: ** Apple Podcasts ** https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unpacked-by-afar/id1625156097  ** Megaphone ** https://megaphone.link/AFAR6756233083  ---- CONNECT WITH AFAR Afar.com is a digital and print magazine that publishes travel tips, guides, news, and stories: https://www.afar.com  Get updates on the latest articles, travel news, and more from AFAR by signing up for the AFAR newsletter: https://afar.com/newsletters  Follow AFAR on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AfarMedia Follow AFAR on Twitter: https://twitter.com/afarmedia Follow AFAR on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/afarmedia Follow AFAR on Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/afarmedia

Transcript

00:00 Hey, you're a thoughtful traveler, and we're a thoughtful destination.

00:07 In Asheville, we treasure our natural and wild places here in the stunning Blue Ridge

00:11 Mountains, and we appreciate visitors who share our values of stewardship and sustainability.

00:16 We invite you to explore the cultural legacy shaped by these high mountain peaks.

00:21 Be our guest.

00:22 Together, we can share adventures and preserve the natural beauty of Asheville.

00:27 Learn more at exploreasheville.com.

00:29 This is Unpacked by afar.

00:38 I'm Byron Pace, a British filmmaker, photographer, and podcaster, and today I'm exploring the

00:44 nuances and complexities of ethical wildlife tourism.

00:58 It would be fair to say that what I do for work, and for fun, is almost always in the

01:03 great outdoors, and it's rare that it's not focused on wildlife in some shape or form.

01:09 I'm forever delving into the stories of how humans and the wild others of this planet

01:14 interact.

01:16 Often this isn't in a positive manner.

01:19 While the world is burdened by stories of biodiversity declines and species extinctions,

01:24 the increasing enthusiasm of people to connect with nature and embrace ethical wildlife tourism

01:30 can be a force for good.

01:33 But how can you make sure, as someone who wants to experience nature's wonders, that

01:37 your actions don't tip the balance and be detrimental to the very thing that you want

01:42 to see?

01:43 I've witnessed good and bad practices all over the world, but I hadn't ever tried

01:48 to define what ethical wildlife tourism looks like.

01:52 So that's how I began this journey, and in the process I sought out the voices of

01:57 a diverse group of people so I could best form a balanced view.

02:02 Very quickly I realized that what we are talking about has a name.

02:06 Ecotourism.

02:07 Yeah, I think what we want is we really want people to go outside and experience nature

02:13 so that they will value nature so that we collectively can do things that preserve nature.

02:23 And there's a lot of different types of nature-based tourism, some with an emphasis

02:28 to not only see nature but also help nature and help the communities in which nature lives

02:34 to persist and value those communities.

02:37 That's called ecotourism.

02:39 And then there's just simply going out and seeing nature.

02:43 That was Dan Blumstein, a professor of ecology and evolutionary biology at the University

02:48 of California, Los Angeles.

02:50 He is also co-author of the book Ecotourism's Promise and Peril.

02:54 He identified to me what would become an underlying theme across the discussions for this show.

03:00 The tussle between the wants and needs of different interest groups in nature-based

03:04 tourism.

03:05 There is often a trade to be made.

03:09 Ecotourism tries to maximize three things, which we know maximizing three things is impossible.

03:14 It tries to maximize things that are good for the animals and the plants and nature,

03:18 tries to maximize things that are good for the local communities in those areas, and

03:22 tries to maximize profits.

03:24 Okay, so even with noble intentions, which consider nature conservation and local communities,

03:31 there will be challenges when trying to maximize all desirable outcomes.

03:35 But there is another element, and that comes from the sliding baseline of what different

03:40 people feel is ethical in nature-based tourism.

03:44 My name is Melissa Cristina Marquez.

03:46 I am a marine biologist and wildlife educator based out of Perth, Western Australia, where

03:52 I'm currently looking at shark habitat use, so figuring out why sharks are where they

03:57 are and our relationship with them and how that's changed over the years.

04:01 One of the biggest difficulties is with the definition of what somebody thinks ethical

04:07 animal tourism is.

04:10 What a person personally believes is ethical could be something completely different than

04:14 from what the next person thinks is ethical.

04:17 And so I think when it really comes down to the nitty gritty of what is ethical, what

04:24 is responsible animal tourism or animal interactions, it really comes down to how you interact with

04:30 those animals and where you put your money.

04:34 So who are you going with?

04:36 Are they reputable?

04:37 Are they an organization that does things by certain rules or by certain laws?

04:44 Or is it someone who's kind of greenwashed and said, "Oh yeah, we're ethical and we're

04:47 eco-friendly, but not really."

04:50 A thought-provoking example of personal ethics comes from Alex Olofsson, owner of Mount Etcho

04:56 Safari Lodge in Namibia, Africa.

04:59 His late father Jan was a renowned conservationist and invented the Olofsson Game Capture method,

05:05 credited with helping repopulate much of the continent's historically depleted game populations.

05:10 As well as being actively involved in wildlife conservation and game capture today, Alex

05:15 runs a photographic tourism lodge as well as a sustainable hunting operation.

05:20 We'll touch more on that in just a moment.

05:23 You have the question of ethical tourism.

05:27 People think that they can come and it's like going to a petting zoo.

05:31 You can go pet a lion or pet a rhino, but that isn't natural.

05:36 That isn't nature.

05:37 And yet you have so many people that that's the first thing they ask you is, "Can I touch

05:41 it?"

05:42 We tell them those are wild animals.

05:43 It's not a pet.

05:44 It's not a petting zoo.

05:46 So you do get that.

05:47 But still, many people seek this kind of hands-on interaction.

05:52 And this has undoubtedly been perpetuated by the rise of social media.

05:57 Research by the World Animal Protection Organization in 2017 showed a 292% increase in the number

06:04 of selfies with wild species since 2014.

06:08 And around half of these show physical contact.

06:12 Every estimate suggests this has only increased since then.

06:16 There has been much discussion in recent years about the draw of Asian elephant tourism,

06:21 which centers mostly on animals performing for humans, be that riding tours or circus-type

06:26 events.

06:28 This was covered in graphic detail in an investigation by Natasha Daly for National Geographic in

06:32 2019, which raised serious moral and animal welfare questions.

06:38 I'm going to assume that the kind of nature-based tourism that an unpacked listener wants to

06:42 engage in doesn't involve unnatural scenarios where wildlife is performing.

06:48 However, the motives of some wildlife experience operators are not always transparent.

06:56 In the three years leading up to the report released by Lord Ashcroft in 2020 on the captive

07:02 lion breeding industry in South Africa, an undercover team was investigating.

07:07 It turned out to be a world of deception, intertwining the practice of canned lion hunting

07:11 with the lion bone trade used for traditional Chinese medicine, and the lion cub petting

07:17 industry frequented by travelers from all over the world.

07:21 Peter Carr is chief operating officer and the co-founder of the Endangered Species Protection

07:26 Agency and headed up the investigation.

07:29 For the first time, he speaks on the record.

07:32 Often what they found was distressing scenes of horrendous animal welfare, but the sinister

07:37 aspect of the industry was the smoke and mirrors.

07:40 So sheer mercenary-minded individuals, organized crime networks, pretty dangerous characters

07:47 the tourists coming through there.

07:50 Some of them would pay thousands to work on a conservation project for lions, you know,

07:55 mucking these lions out, feeding them, thinking that they're going to release them back into

07:59 the wild, which is just an untruth in every sense of the word.

08:03 Pete went on to explain the horrific conditions many of these big cats were kept in, and how

08:08 many of the lion cubs travelers would interact in in these pseudo-sanctuaries would soon

08:14 outlive their use as a tourist attraction, and once big enough, would be euthanized and

08:19 boiled down to extract their bones for the demand in Asian markets.

08:24 I think tourists should look for bad practices and good practices.

08:27 It's like just don't go to lion petting facilities that are offering walking with lions experiences

08:32 or lion petting.

08:33 Avoid them because they're all involved in the illegal bone trade.

08:36 They're all avoiding and exploiting lions as a species just purely for profit.

08:41 The takeaway here is simple.

08:43 There are very few good reasons to physically interact with wild animals, so think very

08:48 carefully about the motives of the operators when this is offered.

08:52 Melissa also shared some thoughts on this.

08:56 I would love to just cuddle with like a baby lion or an adult lion or a snow leopard.

09:04 Like they just look very, if you ignore the fact of the sharp pointy teeth, they look

09:09 very cuddly.

09:11 And the claws, we ignore the claws as well.

09:14 But it's one of those things where whenever I see those kind of opportunities pop up in

09:24 a tourist setting, I kind of sit back and ask myself, what is the benefit?

09:31 Not just for myself, but also for the animal.

09:34 So for myself, cool, I get an Instagram photo and I get to say I pet a lion.

09:40 But is that really worth probably the discomfort that that animal is going through?

09:46 While the example from Pete may serve as extreme, it does provide a warning.

09:50 Always question the experience you're engaging in.

09:53 But the desire to be up close and personal with nature is understandable.

09:59 So I'm Sarah Roberts and I have spent the last 10 years communicating environmental

10:05 issues to lots of different audiences.

10:08 So I have an outreach project, I'm an eco journalist and my background is in animal

10:14 behavior.

10:15 So I've also worked around the world with a few different species too.

10:18 I mean, we're basically bald monkeys in clothes, aren't we, when it comes down to it?

10:24 We have come from primates and come from that line.

10:29 So we are naturally tactile and inquisitive as a species anyway.

10:35 And I think that's best demonstrated with our desire to have pets and our desire to

10:41 sort of stroke and touch.

10:44 I mean, obviously you're going to want to do it, right?

10:47 You see these animals and it just looks like such a rare opportunity to be able to get

10:52 up close and personal.

10:53 And it's always presented in a way that the animal looks like it's having a great time.

10:58 It's really enjoying it.

10:59 But I think the reality is a lot of these species just aren't meant to be interacting

11:05 in that way.

11:08 But Sarah went on to describe our often distorted view of the kind of interactions we seek,

11:13 petting lions, riding elephants, stroking dolphins, as a Disneyland effect perpetuated

11:19 by our increasingly urbanized world, ever more disconnected with nature.

11:24 We are seeking something we have lost.

11:28 Because we, when we think in nature in general, not just in tourism, we as humans, we have

11:32 used during the last decades to see nature completely disconnected as humans.

11:40 We just are in our cities and say, I want to see wildlife.

11:43 And basically the only thing that comes to our mind is like pristine wildlife, pristine

11:48 ecosystems, like kind of like, even sometimes think like a religion view.

11:55 I'm going to travel to paradise when there's just very untame and raw nature and completely

12:01 unexplored and wildlife blooming all over.

12:04 But that is nothing more far that reality than that.

12:10 That is Lucas Bustamante, a biologist from Ecuador, who co-founded an ecotourism business,

12:16 Tropical Herping, 13 years ago.

12:19 Their ethos is simple, to preserve tropical biodiversity through tourism, photography

12:24 and education.

12:26 The trips he designs puts wildlife and local communities first, channeling economic benefit

12:31 towards conservation projects in critical regions of the tropics.

12:36 He emphasizes the importance of understanding that indigenous communities often exist alongside

12:42 nature and areas which would appear wild and free of people are normally a complex web

12:48 of local interactions with wildlife.

12:51 Game Capture specialist Alex explains that in a similar way, this is often the case in

12:55 Africa.

12:56 I think many people, you know, coming over have kind of a misconception of what things

13:01 are like in Africa now.

13:03 You know, a lot of people still have this idealistic view of what Africa used to be

13:07 a few hundred years ago.

13:10 But it's, you know, with population increase, wildlife is basically being pushed into smaller

13:15 areas so everything needs to be managed and it's a constant job.

13:21 You know, and then with fluctuations in weather and droughts, you know, sometimes you have

13:28 to feed your animals because you're going through a drought.

13:32 You have to manage populations.

13:35 And that management often involves the relocation of game between reserves.

13:39 The continent of Africa represents a diverse mix of both private reserves and national

13:43 parks with a spectrum of remits for their management.

13:46 Alex explained that in many cases, private reserves are actually better managed with

13:51 more abundant game and conservation successes because unlike national parks, they have to

13:57 create a business operation which first and foremost protects their greatest asset, the

14:03 ecosystem and the wildlife.

14:06 I've seen this myself in a number of countries from Kenya to Namibia where the controlled

14:11 access of travelers and careful economic planning has resulted in incredible successes bringing

14:17 wildlife back which had once long disappeared.

14:21 Grumeti Game Reserve in Tanzania in the Serengeti is one such example of this.

14:26 In some private reserves and community-run conservancies such as those in Namibia, they

14:31 combine consumptive tourism with non-consumptive tourism, that is, photographic-based tourism

14:37 with limited sustainable hunting tourism.

14:40 While this would require an entire episode in itself to unpack, it's important to understand

14:45 the activities which shape the landscape we are visiting.

14:48 Interestingly, while we often think of wild protected areas of those we only preserve,

14:54 the International Union for the Conservation of Nature, the IUCN, view the sustainable

15:00 use of natural resources including restricted timber harvesting and hunting as a way of

15:05 alleviating poverty while securing both social and environmental objectives.

15:11 And it can be more environmentally friendly to source food from the local landscape too.

15:15 The kudu or eland or even the giraffe that you find on your plate at an African photographic

15:20 safari lodge will have come from a sustainable surplus of wildlife and be far less detrimental

15:26 to the ecosystem than rearing beef cattle, which don't naturally occur there anyway.

15:32 But let's take a step back from the heavy mind acrobatics of what you've heard so far,

15:39 because being in nature is incredible.

15:42 It's good for our mind and our soul.

15:44 Melissa has dedicated her life to marine science and conservation, and she had so many amazing

15:50 experiences to tell me about.

15:54 I think probably my most exciting animal interaction, I just had it actually last year, was a little

16:02 bit when we were open ocean kayaking and we got checked out by a pod of sperm whales.

16:12 And it was really, really cool because they were quite far away and obviously whales are

16:18 quite skittish.

16:19 And you know, it is that scientist in me and that conservationist in me where I'm like,

16:25 I'm going to give them their space even though I really, really want to see them.

16:29 And there was quite a few curious ones who were just like, oh, what the heck is this

16:33 bobbing in the middle of the ocean?

16:34 And we just lost them.

16:36 And we're like, oh, they like dove down or whatever.

16:39 And thank God I looked below the kayak because I let out some expletives because I just saw

16:46 this giant gray thing coming up from underneath.

16:50 And it didn't like hit the kayak or anything like that.

16:53 It was just so close.

16:55 And I was like, oh my, like my heart left my body.

17:00 I'm pretty sure I'm possibly like blacked out for a second.

17:03 And like my soul lifted out of my body so I could look down and see this because it

17:07 was really cool.

17:09 But just, it's really humbling when you have a giant animal and you're very, very tiny

17:17 and it comes to check you out.

17:19 And so I think that's probably the most exciting animal experience I've had lately.

17:26 And it, you know, we were doing everything right.

17:28 We were giving it space.

17:30 We didn't have anything to attract it.

17:32 We weren't chasing after them or anything like that.

17:34 They just came because they were curious and they gave us a memory that I'm going to be

17:40 holding on to for the rest of my life.

17:42 Are you inspired to travel in a more responsible way?

18:00 In Asheville, North Carolina, we believe in the power of ethical travel.

18:05 We care about the protection of our distinctive natural and cultural treasures in these Blue

18:09 Ridge Mountains.

18:11 And we appreciate visitors who share our values of stewardship and sustainability.

18:17 We know travel is transformational and we invite you to be inspired by the creative

18:21 spirit and local flavors of our mountain home.

18:25 Be our guest.

18:26 Together, we can share adventures and preserve the natural beauty of Asheville so future

18:30 generations can enjoy these mountains for years to come.

18:35 Learn more at exploreasheville.com.

18:37 [Music]

18:52 Welcome back to Unpacked by Afar.

18:55 Many of us can point to moving experiences in nature and this emotional connection can

19:00 help foster a deeper care for the natural world and that can only be a positive thing.

19:07 So what does good nature-based tourism look like?

19:11 The first step is local, says Ecuadorian biologist Lucas.

19:15 The first step to start doing like ecotourism is to try to find a local company in whatever

19:22 the place that you want to visit.

19:24 And you do your research trying to see that it's a company that is local, that works with

19:30 local people.

19:31 Check which are the places or lodges or resorts that you're going to visit to see how's their

19:37 impact to see if this is considered like a mass tourism without considering exploiting

19:45 local people or the environmental footprints regarding waste, fuel, everything.

19:52 So that should be one of the first steps, choose a local company.

19:57 I think a lot of people think that ethical tourism is one where it's very hands-off and

20:03 you don't disturb anything.

20:05 And I mean, wherever we go, we are disturbing stuff.

20:09 Be it the environment, be it the animals, be it their behavior, we are disturbing it.

20:13 And so for a lot of these ecotourisms with those kinds of certifications, they're really

20:18 kind of honing in on harm minimization, on education and reduction of our negative impact

20:25 on wildlife through that tourism.

20:27 Of course, the easy answer would be to navigate every prospective traveler to a website of

20:32 accredited ecotourism operators.

20:34 But surprise, surprise, it's not that simple.

20:38 According to the Global Ecotourism Network, there are over 130 certifications for responsible

20:43 and sustainable tourism globally.

20:45 But less than 25 of these are considered credible and workable.

20:50 As someone seeking nature-based experiences, be curious and invested in understanding the

20:56 place you're going to, as Melissa goes on to explain.

21:00 Basically, you want to make sure that anything that you look up, be it again, tours, accommodations

21:06 or attractions, is backed by a strong, well-managed commitment to sustainable practices and provides

21:15 high quality tourism experiences.

21:20 There's a lot of criteria that for these certifications you can kind of go through.

21:25 And I think if you kind of look through some of the criteria for some of these areas and

21:30 just be like, "Okay, well, this is what the criteria is for this area.

21:35 Does whatever I am looking into, does that kind of fall into it?

21:40 Yes or no?"

21:42 Then you can kind of go based off of that.

21:46 The same exact thing with the cultural authenticity programs, because a lot of areas around the

21:52 world, their cultures are very much tied into their wildlife and their wild spaces as well.

21:57 And so making sure that those tours or accommodations or attractions are committed to protecting

22:04 that cultural authenticity with integrity, have sound business practices, and they acknowledge

22:10 indigenous people's spiritual connection to the land and water, I think is really important

22:15 as well.

22:17 Animal behaviorist, Sarah Robbers, worked as a grizzly bear guide back in 2016 at Great

22:22 Bear Lodge in the Great Bear Rainforest in British Columbia.

22:26 In her opinion, this was a great showcase of where nature-based tourism is done right.

22:33 So the lodge I worked at was absolutely idyllic.

22:37 The people that had set it up, Tom Rivers, he's an absolute bear fanatic.

22:43 So first and foremost, it was the bears' welfare in our training that came first.

22:49 So we would be heavily criticized as a guide if we interrupted their natural behavior.

22:56 And if there was a situation where you sort of got too close and you scared the bear,

23:02 we were heavily criticized for that.

23:04 We'd sit down and we'd go through it, and we would have to see what we did wrong, how

23:09 we can avoid that happening in the future.

23:11 Because first and foremost, you want the bears to be able to feed.

23:15 You want them to be able to take on enough energy so that they can go through the mating,

23:20 they can carry any bear cubs they might have brewing, but also they'll last through the

23:27 winter.

23:28 So that was the first and foremost, and actually the guest experience was one of the last things

23:35 that we had to have in our priorities of running those trips.

23:40 First and foremost, obviously, was the bear welfare, but then you also had to take into

23:44 account safety.

23:45 And the viewing experience was actually, it was up there, but it was much lower down than

23:50 one might think when you go into a guiding role.

23:54 But as I said, that was a very special place.

23:57 But it's not just directly about the wildlife.

24:00 For conservation and sustainable tourism practices to work in the long-term, they need to consider

24:05 and include benefits to local communities.

24:08 As Lucas explained to me, ecotourism South America often provides locals with an alternative

24:14 to environmentally damaging industries.

24:17 Tourism is one of the markets all over the world that is trying to give an alternative

24:25 to economies that are based on extraction.

24:27 Let's say that in the way that we just for creating money or funds, we don't consider

24:33 where's the impact of your economy production.

24:36 So basically the tourism comes as an alternative if it's handled properly all over the world,

24:43 that people spend the money in local places that they visit, supporting local people.

24:52 And this can be as a way of an economic alternative for local people or instead of extractive

25:00 activities.

25:02 And ecotourism gives wildlife and ecosystems they exist in a tangible value to local people.

25:08 In that way, it encourages the care and protection of the environment.

25:13 Lucas told me that when the economic benefit of tourism is kept locally, it can not only

25:18 benefit nature and the local communities, but it also enhances the traveler's experience.

25:25 When we were doing the scouting, we just saw that all the money that the tourists leave

25:32 to this community where they visit, is staying in the same community.

25:36 It's just like 40 families living in this place.

25:39 They own a territory of like 21,000 hectares because they are indigenous people.

25:46 And despite that being inside of a national park, the money that they get, they use to

25:51 fund scholarships in between Ecuador or outside Ecuador for preparing the youth in whatever

25:58 they want.

25:59 If they want to study languages, if they want to study guiding for tourism, or environmental

26:05 architecture for building more cabins in the lodge.

26:10 So you see, when we see and talk with the clients that visit to this place, it's like

26:16 they are just absolutely fulfilled of having chosen that place.

26:21 Because in addition to having a nice holiday and see a lot of animals, it's very nice and

26:28 every time more difficult to choose places that you really feel that you are supporting

26:34 a local initiative.

26:37 And it's a genuine experience.

26:40 Much of our discussion around good practice and ethics has steered you away from physical

26:45 interactions.

26:46 But there are opportunities to fulfill this desire while actually benefiting wildlife

26:52 and greater conservation.

26:54 Professor Dan again.

26:55 Well, there's certainly a lot of opportunities where people can help out, earth watch type

27:00 projects where people can help out with research.

27:03 And in some cases, this involves working as a researcher for a couple of weeks and working

27:09 closely with researchers and really sort of seeing how the research gets done and contributing

27:13 to the research.

27:14 So those sorts of things, when well managed, I mean, our form of ecotourism, really helping

27:19 the animals out in some meaningful way.

27:23 There are other restoration projects where people go out and help restore habitat and

27:28 are working in restoration.

27:31 That's a nice form of ecotourism as well.

27:33 And I have done this myself over the years, participating in projects from orphaned rhino

27:38 rehabilitation to the relocation of cheetah and the active monitoring of lions to avoid

27:43 human wildlife conflict.

27:46 These kinds of opportunities may be less readily available and often very limited, but fulfills

27:52 that natural desire Sarah Roberts talks about, to interact intimately with incredible creatures.

27:59 And in that sense, the focus has to be on the conservation of the species in the landscape.

28:05 So what about red flags?

28:06 What should we be actively avoiding when researching the next nature-based holiday?

28:11 Well, one of the most common, ethically questionable practices is food provisioning.

28:17 Dan has written extensively about this.

28:20 Feeders are something that I'm pretty down on because it creates all sorts of challenges.

28:24 Bringing birds into feeders or provisioning other animals so that you can see them is

28:29 an easy way to see animals.

28:30 And it's a great way to see animals up close.

28:33 But what you're doing is you're bringing animals into a concentrated resource.

28:37 You're increasing aggression between animals, potentially stress as well.

28:40 You're creating opportunities for interactions between species that might not normally interact.

28:45 You're leading to the potential of predation and you're certainly increasing the probability

28:51 that diseases will be transmitted.

28:53 And indeed, bird feeders are one of the downsides of getting birds in bird feeders is that there's

29:00 increased disease transmission between species if something's going around.

29:05 So that's a real problem.

29:07 So guides or places that you might go to that have feeders are something that may be fraught

29:14 or people that go out and provision animals.

29:16 Going on a diving trip and diving with peas to feed fish sounds like fun, but not a great

29:21 idea.

29:22 So one issue that you have is the association with humans and food.

29:26 And that is a very, very big problem across lots and lots of species around the world.

29:31 You can go as far as looking at monkeys, for example, on Gibraltar or places where they

29:37 feed monkeys regularly.

29:39 And then those monkeys then become a pest because they start stealing from people.

29:44 And we can pretend as much as we want that the animals aren't going to associate us with

29:48 food or the sharks aren't going to associate us with food.

29:52 But generally speaking, it does increase the risk.

29:57 And the problem for humans can be much more serious than just a monkey stealing food.

30:02 Sarah was quick to emphasize the potential direct risk to humans associated with heavy

30:07 food provisioning in the shark diving industry.

30:10 So accidents definitely happen.

30:13 You know, a lot of the time they're pushed, but they definitely happen.

30:16 I'm aware of quite a few in the shark world.

30:18 But then you can also go right the way around to where it's constant provisioning.

30:22 So you have some dive sites in the world where it is 24/7, back to back with divers in the

30:29 water.

30:30 And there are multiple operations in the same place.

30:35 And there is big tuna heads or big fish heads sort of hidden around the area that get the

30:41 sharks really excited.

30:43 And it means that the behavior of the sharks completely changes.

30:47 Not only do they then associate people with food, which builds up over time, so they,

30:53 within these areas, have started to approach people that maybe aren't even on these dives.

30:58 And that association with people, whether we are talking about bears or sharks or anything

31:02 in between, increases the risk of human wildlife conflict occurring.

31:06 In the worst cases, people can be hurt or killed.

31:09 And this usually results in lethal action towards the animal in question.

31:14 We saw this earlier in the year with a shark attack in Australia.

31:18 This was quickly followed by calls to cull great white sharks locally.

31:23 Attacks by any species can damage their reputation unjustifiably and turn people against them.

31:29 The irony, of course, is that some of this behavior may have been caused by us, by food

31:35 provisioning.

31:36 Ultimately, there are no guarantees when it comes to wildlife interactions.

31:42 And if there are, ask questions.

31:46 One of the things I've learned as a scientist, as a wildlife scientist, is that no one can

31:51 guarantee wildlife interactions unless they're doing something a little bit shifty on the

31:57 side.

31:58 I think a lot of people forget that for wildlife scientists, a lot of our job is just waiting

32:03 for things to show up.

32:06 But there are other impacts from wildlife tourism as well.

32:09 And one of the great challenges is that successful operations, reserves or parks that offer magical

32:15 nature-based experiences become popular.

32:19 Game reserve owner Alex Olofsso explains that when a place becomes more and more popular,

32:25 that in itself can be a problem.

32:28 An interesting example is, you know, if you look at the migration in the Serengeti, you

32:34 know, everybody wants to see that.

32:36 And that's also become something that's become overrun with people.

32:39 You know, you see videos of people, you know, and cars racing to the riverbanks to see the

32:46 crossings.

32:47 And, you know, the cars almost run into the wildebeest because there's so many people

32:50 just racing down there.

32:52 And they'd actually block off some of the crossing points, making it harder for the

32:56 animals to cross.

32:59 And you know, you need to ask yourself, to what point do we need to go into nature and

33:06 push and actually force animals to do something else just because we want to take a picture

33:10 of it?

33:11 And in the world of birding, there is something else to consider.

33:15 For example, many people like to go out and bird.

33:17 Well, it's great if you're going out and birding, but when you get into a dense tropical forest,

33:21 often you need some help.

33:22 Sometimes people play back vocalizations of animals to sort of call them in so they get

33:28 closer so they can see them or they can hear them call back.

33:32 And while this might be a good way to census wildlife, a good way to census and count,

33:37 really what you're doing is a home invasion, going into someone else's territory and threatening

33:41 them.

33:42 So if a lot of people are doing this, that's not really a good thing for the animals.

33:46 That's just one example of many.

33:48 Dan went on to emphasize a point Melissa had made.

33:51 You can't observe nature without changing it in some way.

33:54 By merely moving through a landscape, we cause animals to change their patterns.

33:59 At home in Scotland, I see this all the time with hill walkers, sometimes unknowingly pushing

34:04 red deer herds out of an area, particularly in winter when food reserves and energy preservation

34:10 are at a premium.

34:12 This could increase mortality, particularly among younger animals.

34:16 And there are less obvious impacts as well, the accidental introduction of invasive species

34:21 such as zebra mussels carried on the hulls of boats or disease transported through clothing

34:27 and equipment which hasn't been cleaned properly.

34:30 Recent studies have shown that primate tourism, particularly the visiting of endangered gorillas

34:34 and chimpanzees in their natural habitat, has led to the transmission of a range of

34:39 respiratory diseases as well as measles, often resulting in high mortality rates.

34:45 A paper published in Science in 2006 showed evidence that an Ebola outbreak transmitted

34:51 from humans led to the death of up to 5,500 Western gorillas between 2002 and 2003 in

34:59 the Losee Sanctuary in central Democratic Republic of Congo.

35:03 That's more deaths in one study area than the entire population of mountain gorillas

35:08 today.

35:09 Now, there is no way to tell if this was linked to tourism or other human interactions, but

35:15 the habituation of wildlife, common in frequently visited areas and species, increases the risk

35:21 of close contact and disease transmission.

35:24 The more we can be aware of how our presence can impact the environments and the wildlife,

35:29 the better equipped we can be to spot bad practices, and the more likely that we can

35:34 weight nature-based tourism experiences so that the benefits outweigh the environmental

35:40 costs.

35:42 And there are broader environmental considerations as well.

35:45 We are all too well aware of the impact plane journeys have on our effects to curb climate

35:49 change.

35:50 Are you doing a carbon offset for your trip?

35:53 But what about the actual destination you may be staying?

35:57 During her bear guiding career, this was something Sarah and the rest of the team had to consider

36:01 in every aspect.

36:03 Yeah, so like, for example, that lodge, no wonder people were upset if they didn't see

36:07 the bears because quite often they'd save for a long period of time to be able to go

36:10 out there and do that for the three or four days.

36:13 But all of the food that they were fed, you know, mostly was sourced either like caught,

36:19 literally, I used to have to go and manage the crab pots.

36:22 So it was caught very, very locally.

36:24 The electricity, we had hydropower and wind power and solar power, you know, and all of

36:29 our recycling was sort of taken off with the tourists to be fully recycled.

36:35 We know now, you know, we know in our life, what we're supposed to be doing to offset

36:40 our impact.

36:41 So is that possible out there?

36:43 Is the little island that you go into, do they have any recycling facilities at that

36:48 little island?

36:50 According to Sarah, it's not always the case.

36:52 And she gave me a handful of examples of poorly managed shark dive operations, which shipped

36:57 in all their water for guests in plastic bottles with no recycling or disposal facilities.

37:02 Instead, just landfill sites on the islands, some of which have been breached in storms

37:07 in the past and ended up in the ocean.

37:10 But nature-based tourism can be done right.

37:12 And everyone I spoke with agreed that despite the difficulties of balancing impact with

37:17 overall benefit, ecotourism was an important tool for conservation.

37:22 I am usually an optimist and I do hope and believe that people come together so we can

37:27 have those bests of both worlds where we're in a community that isn't suffocating under

37:34 the influx of millions of people coming in for a short amount of time and then leaving

37:39 and deserting this area and having that local community struggle with kind of the repercussions

37:47 of them being there for that tiny little bit of time.

37:50 I'm of the belief that we're very smart when we want to be as a species and we can come

37:57 up with some innovative ideas.

38:00 Melissa is right.

38:02 Effective ecotourism is about continually evaluating and evolving to ensure we are accounting

38:07 for the impacts and benefits to nature.

38:11 One of the ways we can do that is to think a little less about far-flung destinations

38:16 and look at a little closer to home for our nature fix.

38:20 Dan Blumstein was very much of this opinion.

38:23 If you just open your eyes and begin to appreciate nature around you, it's thrilling to go to

38:29 Africa and see big animals.

38:32 It's thrilling to go to a coral reef and snorkel or dive and interact with animals

38:37 underwater.

38:38 But, you know, it's also thrilling to watch a bird nesting in your house or squirrels

38:45 in your garden or whatever's around you.

38:48 So I think that creating opportunities, celebrating, maybe with game cameras, local tourism, local

38:55 appreciation of nature is as important.

38:58 As travelers, we have the power to define the kind of nature-based experiences which

39:03 exist.

39:04 If the demand for ecotourism increases, where more emphasis is placed on the benefits to

39:09 nature and local communities, more operators will shift towards this kind of offering.

39:15 Whether we like it or not, economics is often the driver of change.

39:20 If there is a demand for petting lions and riding elephants, there will be somebody to

39:24 offer that.

39:25 We have heard from so many brilliant people in this show, and while I probably have more

39:30 questions now than I have answers, there were some universal takeaways.

39:35 One, choose a local company.

39:39 Two, it's all about doing your research.

39:43 Invest the time.

39:44 Three, avoid anything that offers a hands-on animal experience unless you are certain about

39:51 the objectives.

39:52 Four, avoid any company that offers guaranteed animal sightings and be prepared to be disappointed.

39:59 Remember that your dollars are helping this species and the ecosystem to exist.

40:04 Five, it's not just about sustainable animal practices.

40:09 It's about sustainability as a whole.

40:11 Does the company clearly state their broader environmental objectives, for example, recycling

40:16 and waste disposal?

40:18 Six, consider why you're looking for this animal encounter.

40:23 What do you hope to gain?

40:25 And lastly, animal encounters begin at home, and that's possibly the most sustainable animal

40:31 experience out there.

40:34 Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of Unpacked.

40:37 If you'd like to learn more about me and my work, including my own show, the Into the

40:41 Wilderness podcast, head over to modernhuntsman.com/podcast to check out the back catalog and also read

40:48 stories about our complex relationship with the natural world.

40:52 Travel safe, and maybe I will see you around the campfire someday.

40:59 Ready for more unpacking?

41:00 Visit us online at afar.com, and be sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter.

41:06 We're @afarmedia.

41:07 If you enjoyed today's exploration, we hope you'll come back for more great stories.

41:14 Subscribing makes this easy.

41:16 You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform.

41:21 And please be sure to rate and review us.

41:23 It helps other travelers find the show.

41:26 This has been Unpacked, a production of Afar Media and Boom Integrated.

41:31 Our podcast is produced by Aislinn Green, Adrienne Glover, and Robin Lye.

41:36 Post-production was by John Marshall Media Staff, Jen Grossman, Victoria Gruenberg, and

41:41 Clint Burns.

41:42 Music composition by Alan Keresha.

41:46 And remember, the world is complicated.

41:49 Being an ethical traveler doesn't have to be.

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41:52 [MUSIC ENDS]

41:54 [MUSIC PLAYING]

41:56 (whooshing)

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