Unpacked: S3, E3: The Secrets to Travel Rewards Programs

AFAR

The world of travel loyalty programs is . . . complicated. But it’s still worth joining them. On this week’s episode of Unpacked we explore the best programs, recent changes, and how to maximize each and every point.  Podcast guest, Paul Rubio, is a points and rewards pro and writes about these topics as well as many other things for afar.com. Join him and host Aislyn Green as they talk about the state of the industry, which programs are best at this moment in time, and how to navigate it all without spending your entire life reading points blogs.  Read the full transcript here: https://rebrand.ly/eoxlrnq  Discover more episodes of the Unpacked by AFAR podcast here:  https://link.chtbl.com/AFARYouTubeUnpacked ---- CONNECT WITH AFAR Afar.com is a digital and print magazine that publishes travel tips, guides, news, and stories: https://www.afar.com  Get updates on the latest articles, travel news, and more from AFAR by signing up for the AFAR newsletter: https://afar.com/newsletters  Follow AFAR on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AfarMedia Follow AFAR on Twitter: https://twitter.com/afarmedia Follow AFAR on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/afarmedia Follow AFAR on Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/afarmedia

Transcript

00:00 Hey everyone and welcome to the third season of Unpacked, a podcast by afar. I'm Aislinn,

00:05 and as you can probably tell by this giant microphone in front of my face, I host the show.

00:09 Every week on the podcast, we unpack a different tricky topic in travel,

00:15 and this week is no exception. This is Unpacked.

00:18 Paul, welcome back to Unpacked. It's so nice to have you here today.

00:29 Thank you. I'm very excited to be back.

00:31 And you have, let's just talk for a moment about your background because I'm seeing your suitcase

00:37 and I think a map, and this is feeling very travel appropriate.

00:40 I kind of set it up a little bit for the occasion so you wouldn't see into my kitchen.

00:46 But yes, I have a lot of suitcases, big and small, and one of the many wonderful things that I do for

00:54 afar is review suitcases. So these behind me are more like props. They're not ones that I've reviewed,

01:02 but to shamelessly plug some of my suitcase reviews on the website, you can read very

01:09 detailed reviews about my Rimowa, my Tumi, and a few other ones to come.

01:14 Amazing. I also have my suitcase in my background, but it's covered up by a dust protector. So look

01:21 at us, two travel people. Maybe we'll talk about suitcases together. But today we're actually here

01:26 to talk about travel loyalty programs, which is such a big, complex, crazy topic.

01:32 Yes. Big and complex.

01:35 What's your backstory? Can you tell us a little bit about how you got into this and

01:42 what your expertise is?

01:45 I mean, similar to credit cards, which we talked about last season, I am a member to nearly every

01:55 major airline and hotel loyalty program out there, both domestic and internationally, and have been

02:01 since college. So not only that, I have most of my family members enrolled in the key programs.

02:08 I do this because you have to remember it costs nothing to join these programs.

02:13 All frequent flyer programs or loyalty programs are free to join. So you have nothing to lose,

02:19 everything in game. And points and miles, since COVID, a lot of programs have changed their

02:26 policies and points and miles no longer expire. So you can bank these miles in 2024 and forget

02:34 you have them. And then 2027, you're just on the second time you've ever flown a random airline,

02:41 and voila, you already have some points and then maybe you'll have enough points to get

02:44 something out of it. So they're not going to rot if you leave them in your account for years.

02:49 I know that I've had success with loyalty programs because I am type A and I keep a

02:59 spreadsheet of all of my loyalty program numbers and passwords. For people who are not spreadsheet

03:07 inclined, there's a website, an app called Award Wallet, where you just enter in all your information

03:14 and it keeps track of all of them for you. That's amazing. What a good idea.

03:19 Yeah. So when I give, it sounds overwhelming, like, "Oh, hey, join 10 different loyalty programs,"

03:27 but you can manage it all in one place. So that makes it simple.

03:32 And like you said, if they're free, there's no charge. It's not like getting a credit card where

03:37 you might want to pick and choose. You could join them all and just turn off the...

03:41 Right. Like you're not going to be slapped with an annual fee next year.

03:44 Yeah. Yeah.

03:45 God, what did I do?

03:46 Just don't click subscribe to the newsletter, right?

03:49 Actually, except for ours, yes. I will say, just make sure that you are opted out of marketing

03:58 material so you don't get about 10 emails a week.

04:02 Yes. Yes. Okay. Well, at the very beginning, you mentioned the complexity of these programs,

04:09 and it just feels to me like so much has shifted in this world. So where are we?

04:14 Where do they stand in 2024? Have they improved? Are we in a good place?

04:18 Okay. So, I mean, the question of have loyalty programs improved is a huge question,

04:27 but I'm going to try to start short and sweet. So overall loyalty programs in 2024 are worse

04:36 than they were in years back, but it's been a downward trend for years. It's nothing new.

04:41 Everyone just happens to be talking about it this year because I think with travel revenge,

04:47 everyone out in the skies, chaos at airports, people trying to get into lounges, everyone's

04:56 kind of really wanted to get in on the loyalty program game this year. And so they're becoming

05:02 more aware of what it is to be part of some of these programs. But yes, we've seen this

05:09 downward trend over the years. So from 2023 to 2024, it's not actually that bad. There've been

05:17 some negative changes. Some are status quo, some are slightly positive. We'll go over those

05:22 hopefully more in detail later. But yes, if we look back five years ago, it costs more points

05:29 to redeem for flights. It's harder to get elite status. There's just a decline, but still

05:37 opportunities. So don't give up hope. So still sign up for all of them, get the app. Still do it.

05:43 Still do it. Still do it. Why would you say that? For someone who's like, "Oh, this seems like a lot

05:50 to manage." Because sometimes you can get free flights and free hotel stays easier than you think.

05:59 It might not be over the holiday break or over summer break when most people want them,

06:08 but there are other opportunities. And for example, I'm going to Mexico with my cousin

06:16 in a few weeks. She was not enrolled in the American Airlines program, we're Flying American.

06:22 And I had her enroll, then got her credit retroactively for a flight she had taken two

06:29 months prior. And then now after our Mexico flights, she'll probably have about 9,000

06:35 American Airlines advantage points in her account, which can often get you a domestic one-way ticket.

06:41 So who doesn't want a free ticket? And all it took was to just sign up, which 30 seconds,

06:48 and then put her number in. That's it. So it is worth it. It is worth it. And the landscape

06:53 is constantly changing. So there are good deals. They're still there.

06:58 Yeah. And if you're still traveling, anyway, why not get the rewards for it, right?

07:03 Exactly.

07:04 Why not get something, even if it takes you longer to get a free flight?

07:07 Yes.

07:08 Yeah. Okay. Well, for people who aren't as familiar, or maybe you're newer to this,

07:12 what are the kind of broad categories of loyalty programs?

07:17 The big loyalty programs are with hotels and airlines. But your points programs through

07:25 credit card companies are also considered loyalty programs. So the credit card ones

07:30 are the most straightforward. You are part of the loyalty program just by having the card.

07:35 The foremost examples would be American Express, Chase, and Capital One. They have rewards programs,

07:41 and you earn based on your spending. You get bonus points for more spending. And these are

07:46 for their general travel cards, like the Platinum and Gold cards from American Express, the Capital

07:51 One, Venture X for Capital One, and then the Chase Sapphire Preferred and Reserve.

07:55 These credit cards, their reward programs, A, you're earning the points, and then B,

08:02 you can reduce your points by transferring them to partner loyalty programs with hotels and

08:08 airlines. But they also have VIP offerings as cardholders, which makes it feel like you are

08:16 being rewarded as a customer. So last month, I attended Art Basel in Miami Beach, one of the

08:23 biggest art fairs in the world every year. And I had access to some incredible events just for being

08:32 a cardholder to some of these cards and as part of their loyalty program. So I went and had a

08:41 private dinner with Jose Andres, like the Jose Andres, for $125 as a Capital One Venture X

08:50 reward cardholder in a gorgeous high design setting and unlimited glass of Laurent Perrier

08:58 Champagne, a three course dinner with the chef himself. And then I also went to the Miguel and

09:04 Becky G concerts, which was through Chase. That was 20,000 points to get a ticket to the concert,

09:10 again, included all food and drink. I mean, so there are like, some people don't realize that

09:16 these top credit cards kind of have like loyalty embedded in them. It's not just the signup bonus,

09:25 it's not just the lounge access, but they have that plus they also have their own hotel program.

09:33 So for American Express, this is fine hotels and resorts. And for Capital One, it's the Premier

09:39 Collection. And when you book through their portals, you get like a hundred, like for the

09:44 Premier Collection from Capital One, you get a hundred dollar experience credit. And you also

09:50 get late checkout. Now, if you do the programs through the credit cards, you can't also

09:57 collect miles on the actual loyalty programs of those hotels. But that's the credit card,

10:05 like quick spiel, you know, I'm like crazy about my credit cards.

10:09 [laughs]

10:09 And we will link to the episode that you did on the credit cards and all of your,

10:14 so in the show notes, all the resources will be there.

10:16 Okay, perfect. But for, okay, so for listeners also new to this world, for actual hotel and

10:24 airline loyalty programs, like they're going to vary from program to program. I mean,

10:30 that goes without saying, but we're looking at like which programs to be loyal to in 2024.

10:38 You need to note that elite status qualification years vary by program. So for hotels, they're by

10:45 calendar year, same thing for Southwest and United. They do their elite status qualifying

10:50 year from January 1st to December 31st. But then Delta does it from February 1st to January 31st.

10:59 And American does it from March 1st to February 28th. So I know it's really hard and the way,

11:05 but in general, if you earn elite status in a qualifying year, you end up having it for the

11:12 rest of that qualifying year and then the next qualifying year. So I personally, my top status

11:20 is with American Airlines. So I've earned status already for this qualifying year. So I now have

11:28 status until February 28th, 2025. Got it. Oh, wow. Okay. So it really,

11:35 it really extends. It extends. So it's the full qualifying year in which you earn it plus the

11:40 entire 365 days afterwards. And then once you actually have that status, it often is easier to

11:49 get status again because you have these bonus percentages for every stay or flight that you do,

11:56 which makes it faster to earn the actual qualifying points that will get you elite

12:00 status for the next year. I see. So it's almost like-

12:03 We've just gone from zero to a hundred. Yeah. No, no, it's great.

12:07 I feel like, "Ugh!" But I will say, I have written several articles about everything that we are

12:16 discussing and which breaks it down in a very simplistic manner. So it just will take a little

12:23 bit of reading and homework. So this is like the general overview from-

12:28 Get you excited about it.

12:29 The 101 to the PhD level course, but you can then go back to all of the individual courses.

12:35 This is your masterclass. Can we start with hotel? So if you either have the credit card

12:41 settled or you're not doing the credit cards and you want to participate in a hotel loyalty program,

12:47 which one or ones would you recommend, especially for 2024?

12:51 Okay. So I'm going to start with good news, which is that hotel programs haven't been decimated the

12:59 same way that airline loyalty programs have been. There have been some devaluations

13:05 and how valuable the points are for redeeming free nights, especially with Marriott Bonvoy,

13:11 but it's not the doom and gloom that we hear about the airline industry. So we have the four big

13:18 hotel loyalty programs, which are Marriott Bonvoy, Hilton Honors, World of Hyatt, and IHG-1 Rewards.

13:26 Marriott is- Bonvoy is the biggest and the one that everyone hears about the most,

13:31 but it's definitely not the best in my opinion, especially if you're starting out.

13:35 So if you achieve top status with them, which requires so many nights and spending so much

13:44 money, you will have an amazing Marriott experience. But to get to that point,

13:50 you almost have to be someone who lives in a hotel.

13:53 Wow. Yeah. Like a true business traveler.

13:56 A true business traveler. You're just frequenting hotels more than even like your average business

14:03 traveler. For people who've only been at this for a few years, I would definitely say consider World

14:09 of Hyatt or Hilton Honors. World of Hyatt, not as big as the others, but it's my favorite hotel

14:16 loyalty program, hands down. To get the highest status with Hyatt requires 60 nights, comparatively

14:27 with Marriott, it's a hundred nights. So that's a huge difference. But with Hyatt,

14:34 the perks of elite status are arguably the greatest and their points are the most valuable

14:44 of any hotel or airline loyalty program out there. For example, I want to cash in some World of

14:52 Hyatt points for a night at the Park Hyatt Vendome in Paris. I just looked this up this morning in

14:59 June. I want to go for a night. It's 1,900 euros for a night if I want to pay cash or like $2,100,

15:05 but I can get it with 45,000 World of Hyatt points.

15:09 Wow. If I want to get an equivalent hotel

15:14 that is part of Marriott Bonvoy, it would require probably closer to one cent per

15:22 point value. So it'd be more like 200,000 Marriott Bonvoy points. So going back to people who are

15:31 new at this, and we'll also reiterate this as we go on, every program is different, but every

15:38 program has its own points or miles that need to be viewed as their own currencies.

15:44 So the dollar and the peso and the euro are all not equal. So you're not just getting elite status

15:52 and having all of these great benefits. As you climb the elite ladder, you're getting rewarded

15:57 along the way. So that's really nice. And they've had the milestone rewards for a while, but they

16:03 just revamped the entire program. And these rewards come in the form of a free night stay,

16:09 bonus points, sweet upgrades. There are a lot of rewards to be had. And actually,

16:15 as we were saying, we're going to link to some articles. I had an article just come out called

16:20 Everything You Need to Know About Hyatt's Loyalty Program Changes for 2024, which came out a few

16:26 weeks ago. So you can look at that. And what are the perks once you hit

16:31 elite status with Hyatt? And how do you accrue points? Is it only through staying?

16:37 So you can accrue points through stays, but also credit card spending. So for World of Hyatt,

16:45 they have their own card, they have their own business and personal card. And with the cards,

16:52 you actually get a boost towards elite status. You get five qualifying nights. And I think the

16:59 current offer, I mean, offers vary over time, but the current offer, I believe, is 60,000

17:04 points after spending, let's say, perhaps five or $6,000 in six months. It's something along those

17:14 lines. The other way to get World of Hyatt points is, and my favorite way to do it, is through

17:20 Chase Sapphire Preferred and Chase Sapphire Reserve. So when you bank points through their

17:28 program, which is Ultimate Rewards, you can then transfer Ultimate Rewards to

17:34 other loyalty programs, one of which is World of Hyatt. So if you get the Chase Sapphire Reserve

17:43 and that signup bonus is on one of the specials of 80,000 or the regular offer of 60,000,

17:50 once you bank those points, you can then transfer that full amount at a one-to-one ratio to World

17:55 of Hyatt. And then also once you have the elite perks, one of my favorite with Hyatt is they get

18:02 almost guaranteed late checkout. So I have, lucky me, I have globalist status. And as a globalist,

18:12 I get suite upgrades if available. So if there's any suite in the hotel that is not occupied,

18:18 I'm getting it, which is amazing. Even if I paid or booked on miles at the lowest rate,

18:24 I will get that upgrade to the top room. And globalist is the top tier?

18:29 Yeah. Globalist is after 60 nights. And with the World of Hyatt card, if you get that, you get

18:35 their first rung automatically as well. Besides the five qualifying nights, you actually get

18:40 explorer status. The other thing I wanted to mention about hotel programs is, so if you're

18:46 going to go all in and you are going to spend several nights or let's say tens of nights

18:55 throughout the year, go for World of Hyatt. If you don't have like tons of travel plan,

19:00 but you want to have like the perks of like being a top elite, then I would say consider going for

19:08 Hilton Honors because they are unique in that with their credit card, you automatically can get top

19:15 status just by having the card. So the Hilton Aspire card, which is one of Hilton's co-branded

19:22 cards comes with diamond status, which is the top, top. And you can get those big upgrades.

19:30 You will get a $50 a night credit per person at the Waldorf and any Waldorf hotel in Conrad when

19:39 you stay. So that's a hundred dollars, which is incredible. And then you can get late checkout.

19:46 Sometimes it depends on the property, but you will have all those benefits just by being a card

19:52 holder. Now, of course that card is expensive and it's like around 500. If you don't want to

20:02 spend that kind of money to get elite status, you can go for the surpass card, which is the Hilton

20:07 surpasses their other co-branded card. It's 150 a year. It comes with all kinds of benefits and

20:12 credits, which defray the cost, but you get automatic gold status, which has its own lineup

20:19 of perks. And finally the platinum card from American express, which is one of our favorite

20:26 cards here at afar as part of being a card holder gives you automatic gold status with both Marriott

20:34 Bonvoy and Hilton honors once you enroll. So that's like you can automatically get hotel status

20:41 just by being a platinum card holder in both those big programs. So much information. I know

20:48 it's exhausting. Are there any other ways that you would say that travelers should try to maximize

20:55 these programs in 2024 if they're already belong? I mean, I have accounts with both

20:59 world of Hyatt and Marriott and I just accrue points randomly. I'm not trying to hit status,

21:05 but I have been able to use my Hyatt points quite frequently, which has been great. Somehow I ended

21:10 up with a bunch and I was able to book a night up in Sacramento recently. And anyway, they've been

21:14 really useful. Yeah. I would say, look at like, okay, you don't want to sign up for every marketing

21:21 email, but you want to get some if you are investing into the loyalty program, because

21:28 I just got 3000 bonus points from Hyatt because I registered for a promotion for quarter four.

21:34 Like if you stay three nights, even with points, we're going to give you 3000 bonus points. So

21:40 those little promotions do help. Also, you can look out for transfer bonuses, going back to the

21:49 credit cards and their programs and the ability to transfer from credit card points to loyalty

21:55 programs and hotels. American express often has a promotion with Hilton where you can get

22:05 like 2.8 Hilton points for every American express point. And so then that kind of adds up very

22:12 quickly. So be on the lookout for those promotions for sure. Okay. That's good to know to not totally

22:18 unsubscribe. No, no, no. Don't totally unsubscribe. Okay. Now I feel like we need to talk about

22:26 airlines. Hotels seem a little bit more positive, more straightforward. Airlines have had a rocky

22:31 year. So where are we at with airlines in 2024? Where are we at? All right. So airline programs,

22:41 they keep trying to make them simpler. So they say, but they've just become more and more

22:45 complicated and they all follow a completely different system. So for this year, the big four

22:52 US airlines, which are American Southwest, Delta and United, which account for 74% of US airline

22:59 seats. We have some positive news for Southwest. We have negative news for Delta as everybody knows,

23:05 and we have like very, very weak sauce positive news for United. So in terms of trying to

23:13 figure out like what is the good, the bad and the ugly here and where you stand and how to approach

23:21 this. Okay. So I say, if you live near a hub for a specific airline or an alliance that clearly

23:30 like could make the most sense for you because they have a large presence. You can get, it's the

23:35 easiest way to move up the ladder in terms of elite status, because you're going to need to fly

23:44 that airline quickly. Sometimes I like to choose an airline that has like the second largest presence

23:50 in an airport, because if you're flying Delta out of Atlanta, for example, there are so many people

23:57 flying Delta out of Atlanta. So their top elites are all flying out of Atlanta. They are always

24:02 going to get priority for the complimentary upgrades, which is like what we covet in elite

24:07 status. We all want to be upgraded. That's never going to happen for you most likely if you are

24:12 flying out of that hub. The other thing is, again, if we're like, when we start breaking down some of

24:21 the programs themselves, United and Delta, their metric for elite status is how much you spend

24:29 on the airline, whether it's like flights with their alliances, seat upgrades. And so you're not

24:37 going to achieve top status unless you spend a ton of money, like tens of thousands. So that will

24:48 work out really well for people in business that have company cards, that doesn't matter. They have

24:55 no spending cap. They're just going to go with what works for them. But if you're going on your

25:01 own dime, which is what I do, that's why I go with American Airlines. So they have a different

25:08 program, which is, it's called Loyalty Points. Another complicated program, but the bottom line

25:17 for Loyalty Points is that you can achieve many points towards elite status without actually ever

25:25 flying. So I do fly American a lot, but if I was basing my elite status on flights alone,

25:35 I would only have gold status. But because American has this bit more well-rounded program,

25:44 I have executive platinum, which is top status. How so? Because one, of course I have their credit

25:52 card, which gives status boosts. Once you hit 50,000 points, you get a 10,000 point boost. Once

25:58 you hit 90,000 points, you get another 10,000 point boost. But you can earn points with them

26:05 through advantages of shopping portal, through a program called Simply Miles that they have,

26:12 and then through their dining program, which again, oh my God, just sign up for more things.

26:18 Yeah, you do. You want those free business classes? You do got to sign up for those things.

26:23 So recently, there are network of rewards bundled under loyalty programs. For example,

26:33 this Simply Miles program, it simply miles basically works with any MasterCard. You

26:39 register your MasterCard and then you get points deposited in your American Airlines account for

26:47 doing certain transactions. Just recently, they had a promotion, which if you give a $50 donation

26:55 to Conservation International, you get 1,750 loyalty points, which is a lot. That's like the

27:03 equivalent with other airlines of spending a lot of money. And you could do it three times. So

27:11 through that, I got over 5,000 points and I love Conservation International. I wanted to give a

27:16 donation anyway, so it worked out. And now I banked tons of points. Similarly, I did a lot

27:23 of my holiday shopping through their portal. I ended up getting 9,000 points through the shopping

27:29 portal because they sometimes give like 10 points per dollar spent and all these little things,

27:35 they add up. So I bank far more miles through American's affiliate network than I do actually

27:44 by flying American. So for someone who is trying to do this on their own dime and doesn't have a

27:50 company paying or is not prepared to spend $50,000 on flights, the American Airlines program is,

27:58 of the big ones, the best one. Now, as far as Southwest goes, they are making elite status

28:06 easier in 2024. So that's like really exciting news. They've knocked down the number of qualifying

28:11 segments that you need to get elite status. But it's Southwest, which we love because everyone's

28:19 equal, right? But like then you don't really, like elite status doesn't really do much for you,

28:24 right? You're not going to get business class because it doesn't exist. You're not going to

28:28 get free bags, so you already get them. So elite status with Southwest is a little bit of a non

28:35 event. What you will get is like if you're A-list preferred, you'll get two drinks per flight. And

28:42 if you're A-list, you get free same day standby. A-list preferred also gets free wifi, but it's

28:50 kind of small. And we have to remember that Southwest A-list, which is their elite program,

28:55 is not the same as companion pass, which is their BOGO program. You earn points towards both when

29:02 you fly, but the companion pass, funny enough, is easier to get because you can do credit card

29:12 promotions. And if you sign up for like two of their cards, like a business and a personal,

29:16 you can get enough points since those welcome points count towards companion status, but not

29:22 towards elite status. You can actually get a companion pass very quickly, but then earning

29:26 elite status might take more time. So there's positive news coming out of Southwest, but

29:32 kind of a non event. Yeah. Yeah. I see. Maybe not the one to prioritize unless for some reason,

29:38 it's the only airline that you can fly. Yes. But I continue to love Southwest for what they do

29:44 offer their passengers. That's great. Okay. Well, last year there was some news, you alluded to it

29:51 earlier, some news on the Delta front. They outlined some changes to their program and then

29:57 they swiftly backpedaled. Why do you think that they did that? Why do you think they undid some

30:03 of those changes? Okay. Well, so they got crazy customer backlash, but the truth of the matter is

30:13 the other programs did so many similar things, but like years and years pass. For Delta, it was just

30:21 really poor timing. Like I told you this year, everyone's really become their own expert in

30:28 loyalty programs and airport lounges. And they think they know everything about it. And I will

30:32 say Delta did devalue SkyMiles, the worth of them, especially for international tickets a few years

30:39 back. A lot of people were upset about that, but kind of no one said anything. When they came out

30:45 with this news, it was like a double whammy. So they were first changing the elite status

30:51 qualifications, but then also changing lounge access. So I think they thought, all right,

30:56 let's just kind of like rip off the bandaid and just tell them everything that's happening. And

31:01 the elite status changes were for 2024. The lounge policies weren't even going to be till 2025,

31:06 but they were just like, we're just going to tell them all at once. Like we're just going to let

31:11 them know. And so people got upset. However, in one of my articles that came out in early December,

31:22 when a United announced that a few changes to its program. Yeah. United has not made any negative

31:30 changes this year. However, the current United program makes it harder to achieve first-rung

31:39 silver status than Delta's new program. So everyone's so mad at Delta, but Delta is still

31:45 easier to get status on than United. Interesting. So it was more just like a PR misstep.

31:52 It's a PR misstep. And again, timing because everyone's paying attention right now. People

31:57 were not paying so much attention like two years ago because so many points have been accrued

32:04 during COVID. People hadn't used them. It's almost like everyone had the equivalent of funny money

32:10 and points. They were like, "Oh yeah, I could spend these points. I don't care. It's fine. It's

32:13 fine." But now everyone's kind of tightening. Inflation has hit the points where everyone's

32:20 like, "Wait, wait, I don't want to use those points. I want my elite status."

32:22 Those are my precious points. Where's my lounge access?

32:26 So I think that Delta took the heat for everything that everyone's been doing in the industry. And

32:32 it was frustrating when they announced it because it was a lot at once. But I will say they were

32:39 smart and that they backpedaled quickly and they made some significant changes. And it's

32:46 definitely much easier or it's going to be better now than what the original plans were for

32:51 the overhaul of the program. And are they still taking place in 2024 and 2025?

32:58 Yes. So in 2024, Delta will move to a single metric, which is the medallion qualifying dollars,

33:04 but you will get a boost towards status if you have a Delta Reserve card, which will make it

33:13 kind of... I think once you spend, I think it's 3,500 on Delta or 20. I have to check 35 or 4,000.

33:21 You will have your status because of the boost. Yes. The other thing is I mentioned that United

33:31 came out with this news of they're making no changes to elite status, but some positive

33:38 changes in how you can earn elite status. Again, a non-event, but it was well-timed. While Delta

33:46 was just kind of down on the floor, they just kind of punched right in and kicked them. And

33:53 they're like, "Oh yeah, we're going to show you." But they're giving more qualifying points to

34:01 people who spend on their co-branded cards. But even with these new figures of how many points

34:09 you'll get towards elite status for spending, I think it's something like you have to spend $100,000

34:15 to get it through spending alone, which is crazy. But anyway, again, it was a good PR move.

34:21 How do you see Alaska fitting into all of this?

34:25 They have... There are quite a few changes happening with Alaska. I'm not sure. I'm waiting

34:34 to see if the merger with Hawaiian or the takeover of Hawaiian actually happens. Alaska is changing

34:44 their mileage redemption levels in 2024. So the miles will not be as valuable. However,

34:56 now that they became part of One World Alliance last year, there's just so many synergies between

35:02 American and Alaska, and then soon, hopefully, Hawaiian, that if you live in that market,

35:10 it makes sense to be part of. But I love Alaska Airlines, but I can never... I get a buy one,

35:17 get one free certificate from them every year for having their credit card. Again,

35:21 I have every credit card, but I never use it because living on the East Coast, I just don't

35:26 have the opportunity to really use it. But yes, they do have a solid program. They still treat

35:34 their customers well, but it's changing rapidly now that they're part of One World. And then it

35:40 will change. This one is bound to change significantly depending on what happens with

35:46 Hawaiian because Hawaiian's program is definitely inferior to Alaska's. So which one they will adopt

35:53 and how this will work remains to be seen. That'll probably be the big story going into 2025.

35:58 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, living on the West Coast, I fly Alaska a lot, and my mom was a

36:04 flight attendant with Horizon, which was their subsidiary. And so I've just been Alaska,

36:09 and so I'm really curious to know how that's going to play out. So hopefully, they stick with the

36:15 Alaska program because it's good. It's pretty good. I know. And they also serve those amazing

36:20 local beers, or not local, all the beers, like the Seattle beers, the Portland beers,

36:24 the Alaska beers, so good. I know. And they have the little stowaway cocktails. They have this

36:30 really great old-fashioned that that is like, on every flight, that is my best metric. I hope they

36:36 don't get rid of it. So we've talked a lot about programs and how to maximize them. Do you ever

36:41 think it's worth buying Points or Miles? Because like right now, I'm getting all these offers,

36:46 like 50% off. You know, there's these great email deals, but it just never seems like it's worth it

36:52 from my perspective. So I think like, if you're a neophyte, then kind of stay away. But

36:59 I'm a big fan of buying Points and Miles at the right time with the right programs.

37:02 Again, we have two articles on this. I have an article on buying airline points and an article

37:07 on buying hotel points. I think it's less risky to buy hotel points specifically for IHG-1 rewards

37:16 and Hilton because when they put them on sale, they sell them for 50 cents a point. And almost

37:23 always you can cash out those points for more than 50 cents a point. So you're typically like

37:29 looking at a cost-beneficial purchase. The other thing, the other reason I like to buy Points in

37:37 both of those programs, if I haven't earned enough myself, is that they have amazing offers where if,

37:46 so with Hilton, if you have, if you're a member and have elite status, even like the lowest elite

37:52 status, or if you have the elite status, they're having the platinum card from Capital One or

37:56 whatever. They have an offer where if you get five night, the fifth one is free. So it's called like

38:06 five for four. So you're getting five nights at the price of four. So if with Hilton Points, if

38:14 the hotel is 90,000 points a night, then you're paying 360,000 points for five nights instead of

38:20 450,000, which is incredible. And then if you're buying those points, 360,000 points at 50 cents

38:28 a point is $1,800. Also when you book with Points, you're not paying resort fees. So I have used this

38:39 like where I have purchased a sum of Points and spent $1,800 for five nights stay that would have

38:48 cost six or $7,000. But again, you have to make sure that the dates are available with Points

38:55 and that it's a cost beneficial thing. So it's a little bit more of an advanced thing to do.

38:59 I don't recommend buying most airline points because typically they sell them like way above

39:07 what market value is. Maybe if you like need to have a few extra points to get that ticket,

39:13 consider it. But sometimes I personally buy American Points because they are partners with

39:21 Qatar Airways, my favorite, and the Q Suite, which is my favorite. And I recently got a round trip

39:29 to Johannesburg from Miami for 140,000 points, which yes, by buying the points cost me about

39:39 $2,700. But had I purchased that ticket, it would have been $10,000.

39:45 Wow.

39:46 And I would have never purchased it, right?

39:49 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because it's too much.

39:50 So the economy ticket was going to be like $1,500. Then I'm like, "Oh, I could buy Points

39:54 and get it for $2,700 in business. I'm going to do that." So sometimes it's worth it, but we have

40:01 both the articles that kind of break it all down.

40:04 And how do you calculate the value of a point?

40:07 I mean, I do it myself, but yes, it is out there. If you just Google different blogs,

40:16 value points at a different amount, sometimes they're fixed amounts. Typically, a JetBlue

40:22 Point is pegged to the dollar. Southwest is pegged to the dollar. It doesn't vary wildly.

40:30 But with some of the other programs, yes, the value changes, but there are general trends.

40:37 So I had mentioned earlier that World of Hyatt has the most valuable points currency. And that's,

40:43 again, if you look at it, that Park Hyatt Vendome, 45,000 points or $2,100, that shows that you're

40:53 getting over 4 cents per point. But then with Marriott, an equivalent hotel is 200,000 points,

41:00 you're getting 1 cent per point. So you can do the math yourself, but there's so much information out

41:06 there of what the value of the different programs are that don't bother doing the math yourself.

41:12 >> Just got to keep your head from exploding somehow.

41:16 >> Yes.

41:16 >> What do you think that people often get wrong about loyalty programs? Or like,

41:22 what are your no-no's when it comes to these things?

41:26 >> Okay. So like what I just said, all points and miles aren't created equal,

41:31 they're their own currencies. So don't think that just because you spend 10,000 points in one

41:39 program to get something that you're going to get an equivalent for 10,000 points in another. It just

41:43 doesn't always work like that. People also think they can't belong to multiple loyalty programs,

41:48 and they can, and they should. And I was saying I belong to all of them, control the spam,

41:54 unless you really want to get those good promotions, but you should belong to them.

42:00 People also think they can only belong to domestic programs, but there are so many

42:05 international loyalty programs that are incredible. For example, Air France KLM Flying Blue,

42:12 that's like my favorite international program. And I love them because they are partners with

42:22 so many of the credit card loyalty programs. So I can transfer from Chase, Capital One,

42:28 and/or Amex into Air France Flying Blue. They often have promotions for transfers,

42:33 like a 25% bonus. So transfer one American Airlines point and get 1.25 Flying Blue points.

42:40 They often have flights from Miami to Paris in business class, 70,000 miles each way, which,

42:47 let's say, if you try to book that through Delta, they would probably charge you 300 or 400,000

42:52 points. But if you do it through Air France KLM Flying Blue, 70,000 points.

42:58 So before you actually transfer those points, can you go and kind of spec it out? You could go look

43:05 on Air France, how much would this cost me if I wanted to use points versus Delta? And that's part

43:10 of how you make that decision? Yes. So going back to what is a point worth, the points that are in

43:20 credit card programs, loyalty programs, are always considered the most valuable because you have the

43:27 option of choice. They're not going to go away as long as your card is open and you can transfer

43:33 them as and when needed. So yes, I would recommend if you have a destination in mind, you definitely

43:44 go on to the actual website of the frequent flyer program or hotel loyalty program and make sure

43:50 that what you're looking for is available with points before you do any transfers whatsoever.

43:57 Yeah. Okay. And there are, I mean, you can do that yourself. There are other services out there

44:05 that do that. There's something called point.me, which is great. If you have very specific dates

44:12 in mind, it'll tell you kind of like yay or nay, you can or can't do this, but you put in

44:17 for flights, you want to fly from point A to point B round trip on specific dates,

44:23 what class you want, and it will tell you of every award program out there, pretty much,

44:28 which is the cheapest in points. So it'll give you the whole rundown from American Airlines to

44:34 Air France KLM to Air Canada Aeroplan, and it will tell you what is the best one to do.

44:40 Amazing.

44:42 There's another, we have an article on that too. I have an article on that too.

44:48 And then there's another one called Going with Points, which

44:52 is my favorite. And I just put on alerts for great points deals on flights. And when they

45:01 open up and I get notifications. And so that is how I got that Qatar Airways ticket to Africa

45:09 just a few weeks ago, because there hadn't been any Qsuite reward tickets in a year.

45:17 I got this notification from Going with Points, which I'm subscribed to,

45:20 that all these seats had opened up. I went, got miles right away, booked the tickets.

45:25 Well, what do you think the future holds for loyalty programs? Where do you think this is all

45:31 going?

45:31 To go back where we started, it's been a downward trend. I feel 2023 to 2024, despite everyone

45:42 getting their panties in a bunch over Delta, has been mellow and mild. And I think that

45:50 we're just going to see more things chip away at the programs over the years, unfortunately. But

45:56 you just have to get to know your program and then figure out ways to adapt.

46:04 I used to be loyal to US Airways before I was part of American. I thought, "Oh my God,

46:08 how am I going to start working with American?" And then I figured that out. And then American

46:13 switched to the Loyalty Points program, and then I figured that out. You just have to be adaptable,

46:17 and you have to keep up with our articles on afar.com, because we report on all these amazing

46:25 things all the time. And then listen to podcasts like these to help guide you. And then you have

46:31 all of the linked articles, so you can go take a deep dive to every subject we spoke about.

46:38 Earn your PhD.

46:39 Earn your PhD. But next year, I do think the big news will be the Alaska-Hawaiian

46:45 air and the changes that come with that, and then how that impacts the One World Alliance,

46:51 and then that will definitely impact American. So we shall see.

46:55 Trickle down.

46:57 We can't predict the future. I would love to say that things are just going to get better and

47:01 better, but I don't think so.

47:05 Historically, that doesn't seem to be the case. But who knows? Maybe they will surprise us.

47:09 Yes, yes. I hope so.

47:11 Go Alaska. You can do it.

47:12 I know. Let's hope. We all like to be rewarded for our loyalty in every

47:18 capacity and facet of our lives. And this is one way where you can actually get tangible

47:28 benefits for being loyal. So it's definitely worth it. And, of course, as I always say,

47:34 don't be scared to get a credit card to boost your elite status or to kind of get ahead of

47:40 the game. It's the easiest way to cheat. And the most legal way.

47:44 We won't talk about the illegal ways on this podcast.

47:49 Okay, that was our show. Don't forget to hit like and subscribe on your way out,

47:58 and I'll include a link to the podcast below.

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