Phil Smith and James Copley return to answer your questions after Sunderland's 2-1 loss to Swansea City at the Stadium of Light in the Championship.
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00:00 Hello, welcome to another edition of On The Whistle. James is back. Good to see you James.
00:14 Unfortunately for the third game in a row we have to talk about a defeat. I've also
00:18 just realised that I've left my coat in the press room so if I start shivering during
00:22 the recording of this no doubt high quality video. But you are wearing a fine hat. I am
00:25 wearing a fine hat. I'll just shut that off for the people of Sunderland to enjoy. There
00:30 won't be much else to enjoy because that unfortunately, well the first half in particular was absolutely
00:35 dismal. The second half I suppose was better but they didn't actually create a lot so it
00:39 feels like for all that they dominated the game in the second half actually Carl Rushford
00:44 didn't have much to do until the goalkeeper went forward at the end. But then weirdly
00:48 Paterson had that save, that attempt saved at the end which was just incredible really.
00:53 What a story that would have been. Anyway they didn't go in and Sunderland didn't deserve
00:55 a net first. And I suppose you could argue as well that even if they got a point, I'm
00:58 not convinced how big a point that would have been. They needed a win to deal with the games
01:02 coming up. And as you rightly say, I think we've still been coming away talking about
01:05 the first half because that was really really poor. I think it's 8 off the play-offs and
01:09 13 off the relegation now. So it'll be our mid-table fodder. It's my proper mid-table.
01:14 Let's get straight into the questions because we are not seeing anything interesting. No,
01:17 not at all. That's not what the people came for. So I'm going to go first with Tony Burn
01:21 here who asked, "Were you shocked at how much the loss of Jack Clark took away from us?"
01:24 So I kind of guess I've got a couple of points to say in this. One, I'm not hugely surprised
01:29 that there was a big drop-off in quality in terms of Jack Clark not being in the team.
01:33 I think we've seen all season that he is the player who can bail Sunderland out when they
01:37 don't play very well and maybe that would have been the case again today. The other
01:41 thing I would say is that I think you've got to say that in terms of the drop-off from
01:44 Clark not playing, it's probably a responsibility shared because the changes system really did
01:49 not work and I thought that for all Bar, Roosa and Job, any player you want to name, didn't
01:54 step up to the mark today in terms of taking on the man up from Clark. It was similar to
01:58 the Huddersfield game for me where for much of the first half it didn't look to me like
02:02 the players understood where they were supposed to be playing, what they were supposed to
02:05 be doing. Dodds has just been sitting in there and he thought it was mainly about mentality,
02:09 being more aggressive, getting to the second balls. I'm sure there's an element of that
02:13 but I thought it looked like a really confused performance. The only difference to Huddersfield
02:17 was that Swansea were much, much better and took control of that. I thought it was a really
02:20 muddled performance. I wouldn't put it all on the players who came in for Clark because
02:23 the last half hour of the game, for all that, there weren't loads of chances, Sunderland
02:28 looked loads better because it looked more familiar, it looked more settled. I thought
02:30 Wander looked right again, he put a good cross in. I wasn't hugely shocked by how much there
02:37 was a drop-off from not having Clark but I also thought that the way they tried to play
02:39 in the first half compounded his absence. Just to move on slightly, I thought what Mike
02:43 Dodds said about Clark in the post-match press conference was really, really interesting.
02:48 These quotes will come out in due course obviously but a quick summary, he sort of said that
02:51 there's no replacing Jack Clark because he's got 15 goals, he's the best winger in the
02:55 league but far from that being an excuse, he said people need to step up and he sort
03:00 of put that on the players. There's no tactical shape that's going to negate the fact that
03:05 Clark's not there because he's not there but the other players need to step up. I thought
03:09 Roosan worked his knackers off today, I really did, without really getting too much in the
03:15 way of service and I think today sort of confirmed for me that he is really a wide forward rather
03:20 than a striker. I think we've all sort of, myself included in this, right Roosan's a
03:24 striker, he can play up front and I think he can but he's not a out-and-out number nine
03:29 for me. He's a forward player who can play left, right and through the middle. He's not
03:33 a Rod Stewart type number nine, we knew that anyway sort of but I think we hinted at it
03:38 during the week that we're going to end up talking about strikers at some point and probably
03:41 for the rest of the season because that's where the issues lie. The amount of balls
03:44 that sort of go across goal and there's nobody at the front post, it's been sort of chronic
03:49 when Roberts has been in the team, I know he wasn't in the team today but previous matches
03:52 it's really frustrating, it's frustrating for everybody, us fans, everybody, it's a
03:56 nightmare. I think for much of the second half actually, the play, the wide areas were
04:00 kind of okay and that Sunderland got into crossing opportunities a lot. Sometimes the
04:04 delivery wasn't great but sometimes it was alright so I kind of concur what you're saying.
04:08 What I think it showed today was, Dodds made a really interesting point in terms of, you
04:12 have to remember as well that Jack Clarke wasn't Jack Clarke when he came into the team.
04:15 He had to develop to get to the point where he is now and become this player and we've
04:19 got to show the same level of patience with the likes of Mundo, Barre, Aouchiesh and I
04:24 totally agree with that but I think the point you could make, and this isn't on Mike Dodds
04:26 clearly, this is on the recruitment moral, is that there are probably too many players
04:30 in that category at the moment who aren't quite championship ready and if we can say
04:33 one thing for sure that these injuries have shown is that the depth isn't quite there.
04:38 A lot of talented players, a lot of players who might come good but the balance hasn't
04:41 been right this season. There have been too many who have found their feet at this level
04:44 and we have seen that when the likes of Rob Sturridge have been here.
04:46 Interest on that, you could argue that Barre has been here plenty of time now and he was
04:49 largely anonymous today.
04:51 But I think that Barre in terms of his output has had a decent season so he was good today
04:57 but you can't argue that he's not a long way on from where he was last year.
05:00 That's the thing with Barre, the ceiling is high, the basement is low.
05:03 But in terms of his output he has developed a lot from where he was last year. He is an
05:07 inconsistent player but there are too many players this season who are on Barre's journey
05:10 in terms of trying to find a settled position, trying to find some consistency.
05:13 And pushing the dials too much.
05:15 That's my view anyway, that was one question and we've done five minutes.
05:18 Right, let's whiz through some.
05:20 That's not a great start.
05:21 Come on, let's go.
05:22 So, and the Apple 5, is the promotion push the season over? I think it basically is to
05:27 be honest because I think when I look at the next three games it wouldn't surprise me if
05:31 someone got a decent set of results or beat one of these teams because as we've talked
05:35 about loads it feels to me like they're a team who really steps up against better opposition
05:39 and when the intensity of the game is different and when they're almost, they have to be at
05:43 110% to get something and they tend to respond to that.
05:46 So I actually envisage them playing really well over the next three games and I think
05:49 they'll probably beat someone and they might even get a couple of positive results.
05:53 However, they need to hit a run where they win five out of six or something to that effect
05:57 and at the moment they just don't look there and eight points is a huge gap and I don't
06:01 see Coventry West Brom jumping up.
06:02 The lack of consistency, the lack of depth and the lack of strikes for me and I think
06:07 West Brom Hull all have depth, obviously West Brom have ended up with Jan and Vea, all of
06:11 that sort of stuff.
06:12 They've got the experience and they've got the squad that sort of absorb a couple of
06:15 these injuries and they just look stronger than some of them at the moment.
06:18 So another question is, I had it up and now it's gone.
06:23 Don't you think the lack of experience was tangible in the first half?
06:26 What team with so little experience haven't got promoted?
06:29 I sort of agree with this and I don't necessarily think the first half was an experience thing.
06:35 I think the set up was wrong and I think the team looked a bit muddled.
06:39 I thought some of the teams were excellent by the way, you're already looking at it and
06:42 thinking next season they could be a serious team.
06:44 What Luke Williams said was really interesting on that by the way, when he said he was asked
06:49 whether he set up expecting some of them to play like they did in the first half with
06:53 that tactical formation and he said no, absolutely not.
06:56 I think Mike Dodds out thought himself there.
06:59 I think it would be, he obviously did an amazing job in Nottingham County, I didn't see his
07:03 teams but I'm obviously aware of how good they were but looking at them today I think
07:06 wow, I think they might be a serious, serious, well they were a bit better than decent in
07:09 the first half let's be fair.
07:10 They were really, really good.
07:11 They were decent, I'm doing a Roy Keane here.
07:12 So I think that what I would say is that I do think the lack of experience is an issue
07:19 and I think it needs to be addressed in the summer.
07:20 I don't necessarily put that down the first 45 minutes of the day, I just think Sunderland
07:24 were off the pace and I don't think the set up was quite right and I think Swansea were
07:28 exploited.
07:29 So I agree with the basic point but I wouldn't put that high on my list today, what do you
07:32 think?
07:33 I tend to agree but I have thought, we'll go to the next question because we're running
07:36 out of time.
07:37 Ok the next question, well I've got to look for the next question anyway so give some
07:40 of your thoughts while I get the next question up.
07:42 Yeah I think tactically in the first half Sunderland just got it wrong, Mike Dodds admitted
07:46 to it.
07:47 I think he fell into the trap maybe, his greatest moment as Sunderland interim head coach was
07:51 against Leeds United wasn't it and he really did a number tactically on Daniel Farga, set
07:55 up really well, Sunderland's players all bought into it, they nailed that set up against the
08:00 opposition and I think he's maybe just overthought it again.
08:05 Obviously you have to preface that with Dan Ballard was out, Jack Clarke was out so he
08:08 did have to think of something.
08:10 And we all looked at the team sheet and none of us went right that doesn't make any sense,
08:14 it did make sense, I can see what you're trying to do, it's not a complete howler, it just
08:17 didn't work and you will get that at times.
08:20 The one thing I would say is today didn't work, I would rather have the head coach who
08:23 makes really attacking substitutions and tries to get more attackers on the pitch if he can
08:27 and tries to get up the pitch as much as he can, it didn't work but I would rather it
08:31 that way round.
08:32 He said that didn't he, he said I'm not going to do reckless things but I will make
08:34 bold decisions and I think that's fair enough.
08:38 Ok we'll go to the last question because this is a bit of a big one so we'll finish on this
08:41 one and give it a couple of minutes.
08:42 This is from SpeakSundern, thanks for sending this in.
08:45 After the next run of games against Cairnsflash, we'll be closer to relegation than play-off
08:49 points wise, what went wrong and when?
08:51 I think Sundern will be pretty much where they are now in three games because as I've
08:53 said I'm going to make a prediction here that I think they will get at least one positive
08:57 result for the next three games.
08:58 Who's that?
08:59 Southampton and Norwich next weekend.
09:00 I feel like it's kind of in their DNA a little bit at the moment that I think they really
09:03 rise to those, especially those open games where it becomes a bit basketball-y.
09:07 When they're expected to win they don't, when they're not they do.
09:09 Yeah, I think that is the character of this team a bit so I don't think they'll be close
09:14 to the play-offs necessarily, I think they'll be about where they were so it's a slightly
09:16 more optimistic take but in terms of the fundamental question there's no point in denying it.
09:20 We should have a podcast on the second bit.
09:22 Yeah, there's no point in denying that it's gone badly wrong.
09:24 I'd say a couple of things, I think one that I'm not going to try and rewrite history and
09:28 say that everything was perfect under Tony Mowbray and that the team was flying and they
09:33 were heading for the play-offs, the form was a bit patchy.
09:36 What I would also say is I do not think the recent run of results would have been as bad
09:39 under Tony Mowbray and fundamentally what did they get wrong?
09:43 I think that they sacked a manager at a key point in the season and didn't recruit and
09:47 upgrade and I think that it has really derailed the season, I think it has really derailed
09:52 the identity of this side.
09:53 The one thing you could say, they frustrated the life out of us, they didn't take chances
09:57 but you knew how they were going to play and more often than not they dominated the Championship
10:00 games and all the underlying data reflected that.
10:02 So my fundamental opinion is that it went wrong and some people will say it was the
10:06 right decision to move on from Mowbray, fair enough, I respect that, I don't agree but
10:09 I understand it but fundamentally it's sacking them when they did, not having a replacement
10:13 lined up and not getting an upgrade I think is the biggest issue.
10:15 I would also say that as I said, I think the balance has gone too far.
10:18 Yes, I was going to say that Mowbray issue is half of it.
10:21 Yes, I think the balance has gone a little bit too far and I think that there are too
10:26 many players in the squad who aren't yet at Championship level.
10:29 I don't have a problem with bringing in players who take time to settle and who you think
10:32 is going to be a bit of a hidden gem, you have to think outside the box, bringing in
10:36 players from abroad where the prices are lower, I understand that totally but I think at the
10:40 moment the squad is too lopsided.
10:42 It is very lopsided, there's no doubt that having the likes of Bath, Gooch, Pritchard
10:47 would have helped, would have contributed this season, absolutely Pritchard did contribute
10:51 this season, his contract situation was handled poorly.
10:54 For me the head scratching thing is that some of the fans' expectations have been raised,
11:00 partly by the performances of last season, partly by what they've been told.
11:04 The stated aim was, I think the exact quote is, we're not satisfied with the play-offs
11:09 we want to push on, Ownership speakmen have talked about the Premier League and you get
11:15 this message of high performance culture, striving for the best and wanting to improve
11:19 and push on and these signings may well come good for the club eventually but in terms
11:23 of depleting the squad of every experienced player in it, it's backfired massively, it
11:29 really has.
11:30 I don't think some of the fans aren't looking at these players coming in and going they're
11:35 absolutely rubbish, we shouldn't have signed them, all this sort of stuff.
11:38 There's an acknowledgement and a lot of people are happy to see these players develop and
11:41 don't mind that but you do have to have a good balance just in life generally.
11:45 I think on this issue it's key.
11:47 I think if you look at the team that went up from League 1, it had loads of exciting
11:50 young players in it but it had that quote.
11:51 I don't think the balance has been quite right and I think you see it today when some of
11:58 those players who aren't available come out of the team, there is a big drop off and that
12:01 doesn't mean the other players aren't hugely talented so I think that's something to reflect
12:05 on.
12:06 It's the depth as well for me.
12:07 And that's the strategy right from the very top.
12:09 Too much of that debate in my opinion gets focused on Christian Speakman.
12:13 Christian Speakman works to a budget and a strategy that's dictated to by the board and
12:17 the owner.
12:18 If it's not Christian Speakman's strategy, he doesn't want to play with experience number
12:22 nine or not want to sign proven players.
12:24 He is working to a budget and that dictates the decisions he makes.
12:27 To go back to that manager situation as well, we had the discussion on the Raw podcast,
12:30 who makes that decision?
12:31 Is it half Christian Speakman, half Kiril Ulu-Dreyfus?
12:33 A lot of the time it's a collaboration but the owner does make the final say.
12:37 If he says something, something goes.
12:39 He dictates the strategy and most importantly the budget.
12:43 And I think that debate has been a little bit skewed sometimes in terms of obviously
12:47 we have to scrutinise Christian Speakman's decisions.
12:51 In terms of the overarching strategy, it's not his, it's what he's working to.
12:56 Listen, thanks everyone for sending the question.
12:58 The one thing I wanted to say was that for me the highlight of the day by a long way
13:02 was the reception Tony Mulvey got in the 16th minute.
13:04 I thought that was absolutely outstanding.
13:06 I thought it was brilliant.
13:07 The shirts as well before the game.
13:08 I thought it was such a lovely moment and I thought what a special thing that someone
13:11 who isn't from Sunderland actually comes from a rival area.
13:14 I'm not going to say a derby club because it's not.
13:18 It's a fiercely contested local rivalry.
13:20 But someone who comes from another club in the area who wasn't actually here all that
13:25 long but to have made such a huge impact on the players, the fans, the staff.
13:31 I think that is testament to what a man Tony Mulvey is.
13:34 I was so pleased that everyone showed how much they sort of love him today and I'm sure
13:39 it will mean an awful lot to him.
13:40 So on behalf of us as well, I don't think Tony Mulvey watches our YouTube videos.
13:44 You never know.
13:45 You never know.
13:46 If you are a mugger, we love you.
13:47 We are obviously wishing Tony Mulvey the very best.
13:49 A truly great man.
13:50 I'm so pleased that today reflected that.
13:52 Thanks everyone for watching.
13:53 Thanks for sending your questions in.
13:55 Back next week at Norwich.
13:56 Hopefully with a win.
13:57 Surely it's going to be with a win next week.
13:59 Please get in touch with your comments on social media and YouTube if you found something
14:04 you enjoy in this video in terms of a talking point.
14:07 If you have another question we'll try and pick it up on the Raw podcast or next week
14:10 when we do another one of these.
14:11 It'll just be you I think.
14:12 So, we shall see how it pans out.
14:15 Thank you again for watching.
14:16 We'll see you next week.
14:17 Bye.
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