Swansea City loss reaction with mid-table Sunderland 12 points from 21st
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00:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:03 Hello, and welcome to the Raw podcast brought to you
00:29 by the Sunderland Echo, Joe, Phil, and James here.
00:32 Today, we're back for our regular Monday podcast
00:35 to discuss Sunderland's 2-1 defeat against Swansea
00:38 at the Stadium of Light.
00:40 And we're also going to answer some of your questions
00:43 that you sent in to us over the weekend.
00:46 Guys, how are you both after a couple of days
00:49 on now from that game against Swansea
00:51 at the Stadium of Light?
00:53 Yeah, probably like everybody else, really.
00:56 I think the main emotion is a little bit concerned
00:59 that the season might be getting away
01:01 from Sunderland a little bit.
01:02 And when you look at the next few fixtures that
01:04 are coming up, it's funny, isn't it?
01:06 I remember right after the Middlesbrough game
01:08 that even though it hadn't been a great performance
01:10 from Sunderland, that they suddenly
01:12 had a massive opportunity.
01:13 Because off the back of the Stoke win,
01:15 where it felt like things had settled down a bit,
01:17 getting a point against Middlesbrough
01:19 looked as if the fixture list was quite kind.
01:21 And they actually had a chance to really build up
01:23 a head of steam going these run of three fixtures.
01:25 And instead, you're kind of looking at it going,
01:27 it's make or break time for the season, isn't it?
01:30 So yeah, really disappointed with the first half
01:32 performance in particular.
01:33 And yeah, I guess a little bit worried
01:35 that there's a danger that we could
01:36 get to that international break in March
01:39 without a great deal to play for, which I think is--
01:42 we've had so many exciting ends to the seasons,
01:44 haven't we, of late?
01:45 Yeah, I think like everybody else,
01:47 just sort of hoping that proves not to be the case.
01:50 I'm only really interested in the debut
01:53 of a second Phil Smith new beanie hat
01:55 in his many Sunderland Echo videos.
01:57 Let's have a look for him.
01:58 Yeah, this is my new baseball hat.
02:03 So yeah, it's very, very blue.
02:05 I didn't realise quite how blue it was going to be,
02:07 but I like it.
02:07 We'll roll with it.
02:10 Going back to the playoff picture, though,
02:12 James Sunderland now eight points off the playoffs
02:16 with 12 games to go.
02:19 It does look a long shot for them to get into the top six.
02:21 But I was just looking back at last season,
02:24 actually with 11 games to go, they were seven points off.
02:27 After losing 5-1 against Stoke at the Stadium Night.
02:30 So that just kind of shows,
02:31 although it looks unlikely that Sunderland will get in the playoffs this season,
02:35 that it's not all hope is lost quite yet.
02:39 Yeah, I think it's--
02:41 personally, I think it's done in terms of Sunderland and the playoffs.
02:44 I wish I held a different opinion,
02:47 but I just-- I don't see it at the moment.
02:49 I don't see it work.
02:50 And that's not to say that Sunderland might not pick up some good results
02:52 towards the back end of the season under Mike Dodds.
02:55 It's entirely possible.
02:56 But I just think those playoff contenders are too strong.
02:59 West Brom, Hull City, they've strengthened.
03:02 Coventry, I think, will be strong under Mark Robbins come the end of the season.
03:05 Preston Norwich City are kicking around.
03:06 So for me, actually, the story is maybe that Sunderland are only 12 off 21st.
03:12 Now, I'm not saying they're going to regress that far,
03:13 but it just feels like Sunderland this season,
03:17 they're going to be in mid-table, which is really what we expected last season.
03:21 But that didn't happen.
03:22 We managed to push under Tony Mover and get to the playoffs because we had
03:25 a rush due for the first half of the season, Alice Sims.
03:27 We had the magic of a Matt Diallo, a fit Corey Evans for parts of the season as well.
03:32 And I just think, you know, Sunderland's problems are well documented.
03:36 You know, it's strikers, it's a lack of experience.
03:38 And I just, I can't say it at the moment.
03:41 I hope dearly that I'm proven wrong.
03:44 That would be absolutely lovely.
03:45 But for me, I'm just not sure.
03:49 We are also on Facebook Live, so you can send our comments,
03:52 your comments into us and we can try and answer some of your questions.
03:56 Tony Burns says, Phil, shocking clash of colour for the hat versus the wall.
04:02 Oh, wow, I hadn't really turned that into consideration.
04:06 I can't unsee that now.
04:08 To be honest, I'll probably change the colour of the wall before the hat.
04:11 So yeah, watch this.
04:13 Hat staying.
04:16 Looking, moving back to Sunderland then,
04:19 we mentioned it at the weekend, four or three very tough fixtures coming up.
04:24 It's Norwich away this weekend, then it's Leicester at home,
04:28 then it's Southampton away.
04:30 But we have seen this season, Phil, when the kind of the pressure is on
04:34 or it's a big occasion.
04:36 Think back to the couple of games that Mike Dodds had in interim charge
04:40 earlier in the season against Leeds and West Brom.
04:42 Sunderland pulled out a performance in those two matches.
04:45 So you wouldn't put it past them to, at least in one of these games
04:49 or a couple of these games, to put in a really good performance and get a result.
04:53 Yeah, I totally agree.
04:54 I think it's a really pertinent point.
04:55 I think even going before those Leeds and West Brom games,
04:59 I know they lost the game, but Sunderland were excellent,
05:00 and Leicester weren't late this season.
05:02 Really looked like they could go toe to toe with Leicester.
05:05 One of my favourite games of the season in terms of just watching it,
05:07 you know, the quality.
05:09 And even going back to last year, you know, you made that really interesting point
05:12 about being seven points off the playoffs this time last year.
05:15 And if you think back to that spell, they beat Norwich away,
05:18 they drew nil-nil at Burnley, didn't they?
05:20 With really good discipline performance.
05:22 Obviously that amazing win against West Brom,
05:24 which I think was many people sort of highlighted the season.
05:26 It was certainly right up there for me.
05:28 I do think there's maybe something about it,
05:30 and I don't know whether it's the youth thing, the inexperience thing or whatever it is,
05:34 but they do seem to lift their game against the better opposition.
05:38 And maybe it's a tactical thing.
05:40 Maybe it's when the game is more open and there's more space in the playing that they thrive.
05:44 But they do seem to really rise to the occasion.
05:47 In some strange way, you get more nervous going away to a Rotherham
05:51 or away to a Wooders field because they seem to be the games,
05:54 whether it's an intensity thing or whatever,
05:56 you know, that's quite often where we see something deliver those really flat performances.
06:00 So I do think it's a really good point to raise, and I wouldn't be surprised at all.
06:05 In fact, I expect them to win at least one of these games
06:08 and show what a talent inside they are.
06:10 The problem is, as we alluded to at the start of this podcast,
06:13 that four points in the next three games, is that going to be enough?
06:16 You know, that's potentially going to make the gap even wider,
06:19 even five, six points, you know, the gap might grow.
06:21 So I think that's the concern.
06:22 I don't, it's not that I'm sitting here thinking,
06:24 "Oh, Sunderland have got no chance in these next three games."
06:26 It's the complete opposite.
06:28 I expect them to give a really good account themselves.
06:30 I wouldn't be surprised if they took some points off these teams.
06:33 But the reality is you get into the season where they hit 70 points,
06:37 they need pretty much two points a game, right?
06:39 You know, and at the moment, at the moment,
06:41 they're not at that level in terms of their consistency, their performance.
06:44 So I'm not downbeat about the games coming up.
06:45 I'm looking forward to them. I expect them to do well.
06:48 I just think realistically, they're going to have to quite suddenly
06:51 find a level of consistency that this season so far has been beyond them.
06:56 Yeah, I think that's the issue, isn't it?
06:57 They're going to need to go on a run between now and the end of the season
07:00 where they do put together a couple of wins back to back.
07:03 Actually, in their last 12 games, last season or after that game against Stoke,
07:07 they only lost once for the remainder of the season,
07:09 and that was against Sheffield United.
07:10 And they went on that great run at the end of the season under Tony Mowbray
07:14 and got into the playoffs before that two-leg tie against Luton,
07:18 which they came unstuck with.
07:20 But James, going back to Saturday and the weekend against Swansea,
07:24 Mike Dodds, he did make some changes.
07:26 He said after the game he wasn't afraid to make bold decisions,
07:29 started with a back three.
07:31 But how concerning was that kind of first-half performance?
07:34 And do you see that being kind of a bad indicator
07:39 for Sunderland moving forward under Dodds?
07:40 Or do you think it was just a decision that he made
07:43 and he'll do something different against Norwich this weekend?
07:47 I think it's very interesting.
07:48 I think he did maybe sort of overcomplicate it and overthink it.
07:53 We were saying on the post-match video that we do on the YouTube,
07:56 on the whistle, me and Phil were discussing that Mike Dodds' finest moment
08:00 sort of came against Leeds United as interim head coach,
08:02 and he got it tactically spot on that day.
08:05 But I think a lot of it was down to personnel as well,
08:08 because Sunderland that day, I think off the top of my head,
08:10 did have Patrick Roberts, Dan Ballard and Jack Clark-Alstreet.
08:13 They didn't have that luxury against Swansea City.
08:17 Swansea City were good, I thought, as well.
08:19 They put a lot of pressure on Sunderland.
08:21 That midfield balance to me just doesn't look right at times.
08:25 And I think the inability to keep the ball put a lot of pressure on
08:29 a centre-back trio that hadn't really played much together.
08:31 It was Yelda's, I think, first start or first appearance at centre-back for Sunderland.
08:36 You had Jenson Seald, who's been playing predominantly at right-back.
08:39 So I do feel, having thought about it over the weekend,
08:42 I thought Mike Dodds had got it wrong, and I stand by that.
08:45 But I just feel like it may have been a little bit of a perfect storm as well
08:48 in terms of players that are unavailable and whatnot.
08:52 What I did find really interesting, a couple of stats courtesy of the Twitter account,
08:57 @SAFCDataAnalytics, which is run by a lad called Adam,
09:00 but it was the most XG conceded at home with 11 men.
09:04 And the glaring omission of Clark due to injury as well meant that Sunderland
09:09 ran the ball into the box only three times,
09:13 which is the lowest at home this season.
09:15 Forward passing accuracy of 69% - lowest of the season.
09:19 And they lost the ball 122 times, including 49 times in the middle third,
09:25 which is the most this season for both stats.
09:27 So it felt like a really bad day at the office, tactically poor from Dodds,
09:32 who maybe out-thought himself.
09:33 Although I can absolutely see what he was trying to do.
09:36 Personnel wasn't there on a bad run.
09:39 And I just think, you know, maybe one that you chalk down to a myriad of factors,
09:43 hopefully, that can bounce back.
09:46 - Yeah, it wouldn't have been an exaggeration would it,
09:49 to say he could have been 4-0 quite easily at half-time.
09:51 But Dodds said after he's not afraid to make bold decisions,
09:54 we saw him do that in the Leeds game, and it paid off.
09:57 And Sunderland won that game, and it was an excellent performance.
10:00 But we're going to move on to some of your listener questions
10:04 that you've sent in to us over the weekend.
10:07 We'll start with you, Phil, and we've got a question from KevSFC.
10:11 He says, "Thoughts on Hamier at the weekend?"
10:14 In his opinion, Hamier looked bright when he came on
10:16 and gave Sunderland more presence through the middle.
10:19 Says, "Maybe a front three of Roosin, Hamier and Mundell at Norwich."
10:25 - Yeah, I did think Hamier looked bright.
10:27 I think his last couple of cameos off the bench at home,
10:30 the pleasing thing is he hasn't necessarily had much in the way of sight of goal,
10:34 but he's been a bit more involved with the team, I think.
10:36 He's linked up a little bit better, played some nice layoffs.
10:39 So I think there are some good signs there.
10:42 I think that, you know, when I'm thinking back to towards the end of Tony Wilbur's tenure,
10:45 he sort of was talking a lot about,
10:47 'I need to find opportunities for Hamier. I want to get him starts.'
10:51 But he was always very clear about the scenario in which he felt he could do that.
10:54 And that was games pretty much at home where he felt Sunderland were going to dominate the ball.
10:59 I think at the moment, if you speak to anyone, really,
11:01 from whether it would be Mowbray, Beale, Mike Dodds now,
11:05 what they would all say is that Hamier is a really good finisher
11:07 and they really think he's got something that he can add to the team in the box.
11:11 But at the moment, his game out of possession, you know, the pressing,
11:14 that side of the game is not quite at the level for him to start.
11:19 So my gut instinct at the moment is that they would probably see games away at Norwich,
11:23 at home to Leicester or away at Southampton as probably a bit too big of an ask
11:27 in terms of what he'd have to do out of possession to start him.
11:30 So while I agree with the sentiment,
11:33 I'd like to see him get more opportunities between now and the end of the season,
11:35 I don't think that's going to happen in this phase.
11:37 I think once you get past these games, then maybe more so.
11:40 But I definitely agree that he looked much more on the wavelength of the players around him
11:45 and there were a few kind of nice moves, wasn't there?
11:48 But I suppose in some ways we talked about the first half being where the game was lost,
11:51 and that's absolutely true.
11:53 You could argue that it was equally as concerning in the second half,
11:55 despite dominating the ball and being the better team.
11:58 Sunderland barely forced Rushworth into any saves, did they?
12:01 Or nine scores from a free kick.
12:03 The only other save Rushworth really had to make was when the goalkeeper went up.
12:07 So I think that in a strange sort of way, the second half was every bit as concerning,
12:12 because that was more like something we're used to seeing and the performance level was good.
12:15 But actually, what did they have to show for it?
12:17 The answer was not really a great deal.
12:18 So I think that underlines probably,
12:21 I feel like sometimes you get your system wrong or your selection wrong,
12:24 but that probably underlined the wider problems that Dodds is going to have to deal with
12:29 and probably the ones that are much harder to fix.
12:31 So yeah, quite a long-winded answer.
12:32 But yeah, really encouraged by Hamir.
12:34 Do I think he's going to be starting over the next week?
12:36 My gut tells me that it's probably going to be a bit soon,
12:39 but I'd be really interested to see it if that was the case.
12:43 I think for me, for Hamir, I think it's a very different prospect coming in the starting game
12:48 than coming off the bench for 20 minutes and making an impact.
12:51 I thought he did make an impact at the weekend,
12:53 but having watched him a couple of times for the under-21s,
12:56 he's actually struggled to kind of make an impact in those games.
12:59 And I think clearly Sunderland want to kind of build him up
13:02 and they invested a significant amount of money in him in the summer, or a decent sum.
13:08 And they're obviously going to want to see him develop.
13:11 But I think he still may be kind of somewhere down the pecking order,
13:16 probably behind Rousseau and probably behind Berstow at this stage.
13:20 But it'll be interesting to see how much he does feature for the first team
13:23 between now and the end of the season,
13:25 particularly if the results maybe don't go Sunderland's way in the next few weeks,
13:28 if they do drop further down the playoff race.
13:31 Be interesting to see how much football he does get.
13:34 But moving on to another question, James, we'll come to you on this one.
13:37 Joseph Anderson asks on YouTube,
13:39 has Pato become too comfortable as first choice?
13:44 I mean, he's not been at his best in his last few matches.
13:48 Really interesting question.
13:49 I think when it comes to academy graduates and local lads in the team,
13:55 I do think we can sometimes be a little bit too critical as a fan base.
13:59 That's saying every aspect of his game isn't perfect.
14:03 He is young still in goalkeeping terms, although he does have a lot of experience.
14:08 I think possibly with Anthony Patterson and the way Sunderland's squad's,
14:13 you know, sort of designed and the way the club is going,
14:16 is that he's going to get a lot of starts because they want to build his value
14:19 and they want to sort of build from the ground up.
14:21 And that's fair enough.
14:22 But my issue sort of comes that there isn't really a great deal of competition
14:25 behind him and hasn't been for some time.
14:28 We haven't seen a lot of Nathan Bishop, but he's clearly been brought in as a number two,
14:31 as was Alex Bass behind him.
14:33 I'm not an advocate that Anthony Patterson should be dropped by any means,
14:36 but there's not a great deal of experience in and around Sunderland generally.
14:41 I think it actually relates to the Hemiya point as well.
14:44 You know, who is Hemiya learning off at the Stadium of Light, at the Academy of Light?
14:48 Yes, he's got Michael Proctor behind the scenes and some very talented coaches,
14:51 but in terms of Sunderland's playing staff, who can he look at and go,
14:54 'Right, that's what I need to be doing in this team'?
14:57 And I think it's a similar issue with Patterson in a sense,
15:01 although he's performing at a lot higher level than he's been in the team,
15:04 is that there isn't that experience and he's sort of learning on the job, which is fine.
15:08 But there's a lack of competition and there's a lack of an older head, if that makes sense.
15:13 Yeah, I think, and speaking to David Priest in the summer about Patterson,
15:18 Sunderland made it quite clear when they went up from League One that Patterson was going to be their first choice goalkeeper.
15:24 They made the decision not to bring in a more experienced goalkeeper.
15:28 Patterson is the number one, and then they've had Alex Bass last season and then Nathan Bishop this season,
15:34 who we've barely seen feature because Patterson has been number one.
15:37 And clearly, he's very highly rated.
15:39 There's been interest from Premier League clubs.
15:42 But as you say, there has been that lack of competition for him.
15:45 Maybe if he does make a few mistakes, he knows he's going to play the next week.
15:49 I think Patterson overall, the two seasons Sunderland have been in the Championship overall,
15:53 he's been a very good performer.
15:55 I was going to say with goalkeeping as well, people are very quick to highlight aspects of goalkeepers' games,
16:00 which maybe aren't as good as others.
16:02 But in terms of his shot stopping, his commanding of his area, his presence, his stature have all improved.
16:09 I think his distribution can be hit and miss, but I think largely that's improved as well.
16:15 So I think there are a lot more positives to Anthony Patterson being Sunderland's number one goalkeeper than negatives.
16:20 But is it human nature, Phil, that sometimes when you don't have that sort of massive competition behind you,
16:26 that not that he's become complacent, but it just, you know, friction creates a fire in a sense,
16:31 if you know what I mean?
16:32 Yeah, I actually think I see it another way.
16:35 I get the point in terms of a bit more experience around the group,
16:39 but I probably see that more as support, someone to lean on, someone to give some advice,
16:43 someone to be sort of there in difficult moments, if you like.
16:46 I can see that side of it.
16:47 The competition thing, I'd probably say the other way, actually,
16:50 which is the goalkeeper is the most intense position on the pitch, really,
16:55 because in some ways it's the most scrutinised.
16:57 You've got no one there to protect you if you make a mistake.
16:59 I actually think you could make a strong argument that when you've got a young goalkeeper,
17:03 it's incredibly important to send them the message that you're going to stick by them
17:07 and actually not apply that pressure on them that, you know, one mistake, which can happen at any time,
17:11 and they're potentially going to be risking losing their place on the team.
17:14 So I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that putting a fear of his place on him in this case
17:20 is necessarily going to improve things.
17:21 And I feel quite strongly about this one, to be honest.
17:24 I actually think he's done very, very little wrong all season, to be honest.
17:28 You could argue the only goal I can think of, really, was maybe the Huddersfield one,
17:32 where he palms it out into a dangerous area.
17:34 But, you know, was that a huge error?
17:36 I'm not sure. The one at the weekend, I initially wondered, you know,
17:39 could he have done a bit better? I watch it back as reaction time.
17:42 I don't really know what else he can do.
17:43 And I think sometimes the thing about Paterson is because he's so unfussy,
17:47 I think you can take for granted a goalkeeper of his age.
17:51 He makes so few errors coming for crosses.
17:54 He makes so few bad decisions at set pieces and under high balls.
17:57 And, yeah, the rest of his game distribution and stuff is a work in progress.
18:00 But, you know, I have to say that personally, I think it's very,
18:05 my opinion is it's very low down in terms of the issues with the Sunderland side
18:09 and why they're maybe not in the playoff race.
18:10 I think, you know, clearly there's always areas a player can improve,
18:14 but I think he's a net positive, really, for Sunderland.
18:16 And what he's tried, especially in a division in which it's not easy to be a goalkeeper,
18:20 and the same with League One.
18:21 No, I would agree with that as well.
18:23 And as I say, I'm not advocating for Anthony Paterson being dropped,
18:26 but I just think in terms of, you know, having somebody to lean on,
18:31 as you say, Phil, like a Steve Harper for Jordan Pickford sort of thing,
18:36 not to put the fear of God into him to suggest that he's going to be dropped,
18:39 but just, you know, something there.
18:42 And I'm sure that comes from Sunderland's coaching staff as well,
18:44 but I just think sometimes it can help having somebody to look up to.
18:48 I do take your point, though, that it is good for a young player and a goalkeeper,
18:51 especially to have that sort of almost guarantee of games
18:55 where you know you're not going to be hung out of a drag.
18:57 You look at the Arsenal situation with Aaron Ramsdale and Sanchez and stuff,
19:00 and it's created a great deal of...
19:02 It's always a story, isn't it?
19:03 When a mistake is one mistake.
19:05 It's a story, and it's become a bit of a circus, really, let's face it, hasn't it?
19:09 Yeah, that coming for crosses as well, Phil, that you mentioned there,
19:12 I think that scenario of his game you've clearly seen improve.
19:15 I remember the first game, one of the first games he came in, away at Wickham,
19:18 and they were bombarding him with crosses at every corner,
19:21 and he did struggle that day.
19:23 But since then, I think he's really improved that side of his game.
19:27 But looking at other questions...
19:28 I think Oliver Kahn would struggle against Wickham in League One, though.
19:32 Yeah, every ball was on him from the corners,
19:34 and it was a tough day to be a goalkeeper.
19:37 But we'll look at some of your other questions.
19:41 John Williams says Ballard was a big miss on Saturday.
19:46 Phil, how big a miss was Dan Ballard?
19:48 Obviously, he was suspended for the game against Swansea.
19:50 He's going to be suspended again for the game against Norwich,
19:53 because he got 10 yellow cards and is suspended for two games.
19:56 But just how much did Sunderland miss him against Swansea?
20:00 Yeah, he's a huge miss, really.
20:02 I think that in some ways it's quite difficult to, I think,
20:05 identify how influential that was to the result,
20:08 just because Sunderland played a different way.
20:10 It was really difficult to judge Seal against Ballard,
20:12 just in terms of the roles they were doing was different
20:14 with it being a back three.
20:16 And I think that when you look back at the first half,
20:19 the issues really, I thought, were as much with the shape as anything,
20:22 because what Swansea were able to do really regularly
20:25 was to get those two wing backs, Ronald and Pichetta,
20:29 into the gaps between the centre half and the full back
20:32 really, really, really frequently.
20:34 The biggest issue, I think, was probably not on Ballard's side.
20:36 I think it was potentially on the other flank,
20:38 where I think Stiles and Yelder,
20:40 I'm not even in any way a criticism of them.
20:43 I just don't think that the chemistry was quite there yet,
20:45 which you wouldn't expect it to.
20:47 And obviously, the fact that Stiles has been asked
20:49 to do a bit of a high-level role,
20:50 where he sort of drifted in field and possession,
20:52 because it wasn't working for Sunderland on the ball,
20:54 I think that left a lot of space for Swansea to attack.
20:57 So, Ballard's a massive miss,
20:59 because it's the same with 09, really.
21:02 Their athleticism allows you to defend really high up the pitch,
21:05 which adds to your attacking game.
21:07 And they're also both excellent in 1v1 duels,
21:09 which means it's very difficult when you're playing at your best
21:12 for the opposition to really have a focal point
21:14 and sort of stymie what you're doing on the ball.
21:17 So, I thought he was a huge loss,
21:20 but I think you could make an argument
21:22 that it wasn't in the first half, at least,
21:24 where the game was won and lost.
21:25 And maybe if Sunderland had played the same way,
21:27 even with Ballard, there would have been some issues there.
21:31 But I'll be really interested,
21:32 because I think Sealt will be a bit disappointed.
21:33 Like I say, I wouldn't pin it on him,
21:36 but I think he'll feel like he's got a bit more
21:38 in his best position to show.
21:40 And hopefully he can do that at Norwich this weekend.
21:42 Because I have to say, I do like what I've seen from Sealt,
21:45 by and large.
21:46 I think he's been a steady operator,
21:48 and I think he could be a good player for the club going forward.
21:50 So, I'm hoping that maybe in a bit more of a familiar shape
21:54 on Saturday and a bit more settled,
21:56 he might be able to show a bit more what he's all about.
21:58 But the other thing I would say is,
22:00 we talk a lot about leadership, don't we?
22:01 Especially in those periods.
22:02 Ballard, I think, has become one of the biggest voices
22:04 on the pitch for Sunderland this season.
22:05 I think he's got a lot of championship experience now,
22:08 and that is definitely something that I think you probably miss
22:11 when it's not there, because he has become
22:13 one of the senior figures in that dressing room,
22:14 despite how young the athlete is.
22:17 Yeah, I think from the players that left in the summer,
22:19 people like Danny Barr, Lyndon Gooch, Bailey Wright,
22:22 I think the two that probably stepped up the most
22:24 is Dan Neal and Dan Ballard,
22:26 in terms of the younger players coming through as leaders.
22:29 And yeah, I think you saw that disorganisation, really,
22:33 in the back line on Saturday, when Ballard wasn't there.
22:37 But Phil mentioned Sealt there, James.
22:40 I agree, I like what I've seen from Sealt.
22:43 But I think the problem for him is,
22:45 some games he's been playing out of right back.
22:47 On Saturday, he was on the right of a back three.
22:50 We've seen good qualities from him,
22:52 but been moving around positions.
22:54 And I don't think we've really maybe seen him
22:56 in his best position, which is maybe as a centre-back
22:59 in a back four.
23:00 Do you see Dodds maybe changing it on Saturday
23:02 against Norwich?
23:03 And how do you see that will affect Sealt?
23:07 Well, it's a really good question.
23:09 I'm really not sure what Mike Dodds will do against Norwich.
23:12 Obviously, as you mentioned, he came out
23:14 on the post-match press conference
23:15 and said that he's going to make bold decisions.
23:17 So he might double down on that.
23:19 He might rein it in.
23:20 I don't know.
23:21 I could see him moving to a back four, yeah, definitely.
23:25 And as you mentioned, I think Sealt's been, by and large, good.
23:29 I can definitely see why he's been brought to the club.
23:32 I think, for me, he looks best as a right back at the moment.
23:36 But I can definitely see qualities there that would lend to him being
23:38 an excellent centre-back.
23:40 I think the problem with the weekend was that we touched on that.
23:42 It was a really unfamiliar back five, as it were, or a back three,
23:47 with 0-9 in the middle.
23:49 He was playing right centre-back, wasn't he?
23:51 So is that a position he's massively familiar with?
23:54 He's been playing right back, but then he's got a right wing-back.
23:56 So has that muddled his brain in terms of his positioning?
24:00 Yelder on the left-hand side of that, again, Phil mentioned with Callum Styles.
24:05 That's not a partnership which has developed, had a chance to develop at all yet,
24:09 obviously, with it being Styles' debut.
24:10 Yelder, obviously, a January sign-in as well.
24:12 So it was just very muddled.
24:14 It didn't work, and I think that was due to personnel.
24:17 But in terms of Sealt, I do really like what I've seen.
24:20 And it's like anything, isn't it?
24:21 You need a run in the position to get going.
24:24 I mean, when he first came in at right back and he first started playing there,
24:27 it was a little inconvincing at times.
24:29 It didn't really look like he knew where he needed to be.
24:32 That comes with games and it comes with time.
24:33 It comes with working on the training pitch, building up those connections on the field.
24:40 But yeah, I think, obviously, 09's going to get suspended at some point, isn't he?
24:44 Because he's on nine.
24:45 So, you know, you'd expect...
24:47 He's got three more games before the cut-off.
24:50 Is it only three now? That's flown by.
24:51 So yeah, he could conceivably get through it.
24:54 But yeah, I think, yeah, I would definitely, I wouldn't bet against him
24:58 getting the yellow card in these next three games.
25:00 But obviously, he's going to be possibly out.
25:02 So there's a little window of opportunity there for Silk to play,
25:06 potentially alongside Ballard.
25:07 But that's the question, isn't it?
25:09 Will Mike Dodds trust him in a back four or does he want that protection of a back five?
25:14 And will he go down that route with one of Ballard or 09 suspended?
25:19 I actually think that Silk could do a job in a back four.
25:22 And that's probably where he's more comfortable,
25:25 just given what we know about him from his time in Holland and such like.
25:29 But really interesting.
25:30 And I think one thing that we sort of forget about is some of his defensive injuries as well,
25:33 like Sirken, Huggins, Alise, I know he's on his way back.
25:36 But they would have offered a great deal had they been available for those games.
25:42 So it's a shame in that regard as well.
25:45 Yeah, it was important, I think, on the weekend that 09 didn't get books.
25:47 So they would have been going into this game against Norwich without Ballard and 09.
25:52 We've seen that before earlier in the season,
25:53 but maybe not as well equipped to deal with that as well as the injuries that you mentioned.
25:58 People like Alise, Huggins, Sirken all out have been losses as well this season.
26:05 But thanks a lot for everyone for sending in your questions.
26:08 And please keep sending them in and we'll read them out on the podcast and try and answer them as best we can.
26:16 But we're going to come to a report that broke over the weekend.
26:20 It's caused quite a bit of conversation on social media.
26:24 It came from the Suns' Alan Nixon saying that Alex Neil would be open to a return to Sunderland.
26:31 Now, can either of you see any kind of scenario where this kind of happens?
26:36 Because clearly a lot has gone on since Alex Neil decided to leave Sunderland and join Stoke.
26:43 No, I can't.
26:45 But then I don't want to be too strong about it because Sunderland,
26:52 to have a surprise on you and when Tony Mowbray went, I probably wouldn't have that stage.
26:57 If you'd asked me if Michael Bale would be the next Sunderland head coach, I would probably have said that.
27:01 So that is unlikely. I think there's a couple of factors to it.
27:04 Like has Alex Neil completely changed his view on Sunderland's recruitment model?
27:11 Is happiness working as a head coach with a sort of relatively limited input on sign-ins and that kind of thing?
27:19 My suspicion is he probably hasn't changed his view.
27:22 And we know that Sunderland aren't going to change how they operate.
27:25 So that immediately makes me think that it's unlikely,
27:27 even in terms of Sunderland matching up what they want from a head coach and Alex Neil.
27:32 The second point I would make is, do I think that Sunderland would entertain the idea of bringing Alex Neil back,
27:38 given the way it kind of unfolded and the way he left the day before a game?
27:43 My feeling is that I'm not convinced that, well, I think the relationships are relatively amicable.
27:51 I don't know if you remember, but when Sunderland went on a winter break during the World Cup last winter,
27:56 Stokes City were out there.
27:59 And I know that there was a lot of conversations had and there was sort of hands shaking and it was all fairly amicable.
28:04 So I don't think it's like, you know, they're not on speak in terms or anything like that.
28:08 But I do think to see them working together again, that feels to me like a bridge too far.
28:14 And what I would say again is, you know, people might not believe it because like I say,
28:17 they didn't get what we thought they would go for when Mowbray left.
28:20 But I still expect it to be like a younger, someone who's not operated as a manager in the past,
28:25 very much a head coach, if you like, coach first.
28:29 I just still don't see Neil in that mould.
28:32 It was a union that sort of worked for everyone until it didn't.
28:36 And for me, I don't think anything has really changed on that front.
28:39 And I also do still think that the way he left ultimately has probably left things beyond going back into a working relationship.
28:46 So I would genuinely be stunned. That's the only word I could use.
28:50 Stunned is the only word I could use.
28:52 But you feel like you have to caveat everything, don't you?
28:55 Because, you know, there's some strange things happening in the world of football.
28:59 But I don't see it. And it wouldn't actually sit right with me, to be honest.
29:03 I totally understood it from Alex Neil's perspective.
29:06 He was getting greater power.
29:08 You know, financially, I'm sure there was big incentives for him.
29:10 I totally understood his decision and respected it.
29:12 No problem with that.
29:13 But actually, personally, I'm not sure how well that would sit with me, really.
29:17 I think you have to have a really, really good reason for going back, I think.
29:21 And I'm not sure in this case.
29:24 No, I'd like to see something go in a different direction, personally.
29:26 But we'll see.
29:27 I actually find this quite interesting.
29:29 I agree with everything Phil said.
29:31 But, but and but, you know, when Alex Neil came to the club,
29:35 Sunderland's model, Sunderland's way of doing things under a little bit of scrutiny,
29:38 Sunderland's ownership under a little bit of scrutiny.
29:41 It's under similar levels of scrutiny again and possibly could be in the summer.
29:47 Alex Neil needs to rebuild his career.
29:49 He's out of work again.
29:50 I'm not saying it's definitely going to happen, but pressure does funny things to people.
29:54 And there's that little sort of parallel to me.
29:56 Obviously, you have to preface that with the way Alex Neil left the club
30:00 the day before a game.
30:02 You know, Sunderland have made one pretty unpopular managerial decision with Michael Beale.
30:07 This would be equally, if not more unpopular, given the way Alex Neil left the club,
30:13 which is pretty impressive given the absolutely sterling work he did to get Sunderland out of League One.
30:18 That moment that he gave us at Sheffield Wednesday, the moment that he gave us at Wembley,
30:23 you know, in front of fans for the first time since 1973.
30:25 These are not insignificant things for a club like Sunderland and the fan base,
30:30 but to have soured that with the way he left the club so significantly to the point where I've done a little poll
30:38 on social media about this issue, asking for fans and their views.
30:43 And it's got 22 hours left to run, but there's already been 1,500 votes and it's 87% no.
30:50 Sunderland fans wouldn't be open to Alex Neil's return in the summer.
30:54 So I think that's pretty telling. But the thing that sticks out in my mind is that actually,
30:58 you know, Sunderland might need an injection of something at some point.
31:02 And Alex Neil is a very good coach and he's a lot of work.
31:04 Whether that bridge with the fans could be crossed is a different matter.
31:09 But I just found that little facet interesting.
31:12 Yeah, it would be a huge shock, wouldn't it?
31:14 I mean, we've said that before with other things about Sunderland, but it would be a massive shock.
31:18 And as you mentioned there, the backlash that there was towards Michael Beale,
31:23 we saw how that ended.
31:25 You'd expect there to be a similar backlash if Alex Neil kind of,
31:29 they even entertained the idea of bringing him back.
31:31 So it did definitely, as you say, James cause a lot of conversation on social media.
31:37 But just the last few minutes of the podcast, we'll just look ahead to Sunderland's game this weekend.
31:42 They're away at Norwich, who are going quite well in the championship.
31:46 At the minute, they're up to seventh. They're on a good run.
31:50 Phil, can you see any changes to the team that Mike Dodds could make?
31:53 We've got a comment here.
31:55 With promotion seemingly gone, is it now a chance to try a few fringe players like Chris Rigg, etc.?
32:02 Are there any changes you think Dodds might make to the side on Saturday?
32:06 Yeah, I think there's two facets to it.
32:08 One in response to that question we just had is I think it's still a little bit early for that in terms of
32:13 we think it's highly unlikely for Sunderland to get into the playoffs.
32:15 But I don't think you can operate in that manner just yet.
32:18 I think you still have to believe you can get in there.
32:20 You also have to say if we're talking about these players and giving them an opportunity,
32:24 is it fair and right to put them in against in these certain games?
32:28 Or do you have to wait?
32:29 You know, I mentioned the challenge with Hamir earlier.
32:31 Is it going to do him good necessarily playing these games?
32:34 I think that's a fair question.
32:35 The other facet is there will be rotation because it's a three game week.
32:40 You know, you go, you play Leicester on Tuesday and then it's another long trip to Southampton.
32:44 I don't see Job, for example, playing three 90 minutes because I just, you know,
32:48 I think that's going to be a bridge too far for a few players.
32:51 So I think there will be changes.
32:54 I don't envisage sort of wholesale changes.
32:56 I think the obvious one for me is to bring Mundele in.
32:59 Let's go back to something a little bit more familiar, if you like.
33:03 I was really impressed with him in the first half against Birmingham.
33:06 Obviously, you've got a manager's minute.
33:07 I thought he did okay the other night.
33:08 He put one brilliant cross in that just nobody was quite there to meet.
33:12 So, you know, I think Mundele's the obvious one for me.
33:15 Let's have another look at him.
33:16 Let's give him another opportunity.
33:17 He didn't look phased at Birmingham, so why not give him a go?
33:20 Beyond that, I have to say at this stage, I don't envisage any major changes other than
33:25 I think you will have to freshen things up in the midfield over the course of the week.
33:28 Maybe Aushisi is someone who's sort of knocking on the door for another opportunity.
33:32 Really disappointing the way things went, I think, after the Ipswich game.
33:36 I don't think it was quite right that, you know, you sort of almost blamed for the defeat
33:39 and then just kind of didn't get another opportunity in the games following.
33:43 Getting back to Mowbray, do you remember when Ekwemid gave that penalty away against Hull?
33:47 There was a lot of criticism and he started the next game, didn't he?
33:51 I thought that was, you know, Mowbray criticised him, but then started in the next game.
33:56 And yeah, anyway, that's a bit of an aside, but you get my point in terms of, you know,
34:00 I think Aushisi deserves another chance.
34:02 So, they're the two, I think, that over the course of the week,
34:06 Aushisi and Mundell, I would like to see them start one, maybe two games to have another look at them.
34:11 Rigg definitely wants to see more of between now and the end of the season.
34:14 I think that's really, really important.
34:15 Whether it'll be this Saturday, I suspect not, but I'd like to see him, yeah,
34:19 I'd like to see him start four or five games before the end of the year, definitely.
34:22 Could you maybe see him bringing Birstow back in for one of those games, Phil,
34:25 just with it being three in a week, as you say?
34:28 One of the three, I think.
34:29 I think Reeson will probably start two and I think Birstow will start one.
34:31 Yeah, that's definitely how I see it.
34:32 Although, interestingly, Birstow has not kicked a ball under Mike Dodds yet,
34:36 so that's four games now.
34:37 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:38 And Birstow has not made a single appearance from the bench, or either.
34:41 So, I think that's interesting.
34:43 It suggests that he sees Reeson or Job as a better option at this time.
34:49 But, yeah, I think, because Reeson hasn't played all that much over the course of the season,
34:53 I just don't see him start three games in a week.
34:56 Could he play Job up front instead and bring Aushisi or Rigg in?
34:59 That's definitely one to watch as well.
35:00 I think that's, like I say, it'd be interesting to see what happens with Birstow.
35:03 I think he'll start again, but it's probably interesting that across four games,
35:07 Dodds has yet to use him.
35:08 I'd be interested to see how that develops.
35:10 Pembele as well, Joe.
35:12 You'd want to get Pembele some minutes at some point, wouldn't you?
35:14 I think so, yeah.
35:14 He looked bright for the under-21s when I saw him come back around December.
35:18 But, yeah, we've only really seen him off the bench, haven't we?
35:20 I mean, try Hume.
35:24 He's the obvious right back.
35:25 I mean, if Hume had to go to left-back, say, if Yelder was unavailable or they wanted to bring Pembele,
35:30 and that's maybe an option, but you'd want to probably keep Hume.
35:33 I think that's the problem that Lyndon Gooch had in the summer,
35:35 the fact that Hume was going to be first choice.
35:37 So he had to go and get first in football.
35:39 But Pembele is another one I'd like to see a bit more of.
35:42 He looks very athletic, very attacking going forward.
35:45 And he's obviously been at PSG, so he'll be quite highly rated coming from there.
35:49 So I do hope we see him more in the end of the season,
35:52 but it is hard to kind of fit him in the team when try Hume is playing so well
35:56 and wants to play every game.
35:57 But that kind of brings us to the end of today's Raw podcast.
36:02 Thanks a lot for everyone that has sent in their questions.
36:05 And you can send in more ahead of Saturday's game against Norwich,
36:08 and we'll be back with another podcast next Monday.
36:11 So once again, thanks a lot for listening to the Raw podcast.
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