Former Gonzaga standout Robert Sacre is back on Talking Zags to discuss the Bulldogs' final two WCC regular season games, why Graham Ike deserves to be WCC Player of the Year and much more
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Talking Zags for Gonzaga Nation, episode 19.
00:09 Myself, Dan Dickow, co-host Adam Morrison
00:12 with you each week.
00:14 Today, a repeat guest.
00:16 We wanna talk a little bit about his thoughts
00:19 on Gonzaga's recent play,
00:21 as well as what his high school team is doing,
00:24 surprising a lot of people.
00:25 Not surprising him though, Rob Sacre.
00:27 So, first off, Rob, thanks for joining again.
00:30 - Thanks for having me.
00:31 It's great to see you guys.
00:33 And man, you guys are doing a great job.
00:35 - Well, we try.
00:36 And when we get guests like you,
00:38 who kind of know the game, understand the game,
00:41 and are willing to kind of share their expertise,
00:45 it makes it even better.
00:46 So, let's just jump right into it.
00:49 Mo, you called both games this past week.
00:52 Portland and Santa Clara.
00:54 I was at the Portland game.
00:55 I thought it was a great effort.
00:57 Portland wasn't great,
00:58 but Gonzaga did what they needed to do.
01:00 And then in the Santa Clara game,
01:03 Santa Clara got off to a great start,
01:04 but Gonzaga just wore 'em out in the second half.
01:07 - Yeah, I thought our plan was really good against them.
01:10 Obviously, there was extra motivation
01:11 to stay in second place,
01:12 and then lose 'em to them on,
01:14 I think it was January 11th,
01:15 and we lost the first game of conference play there.
01:18 So, I thought our guys' energy was fantastic.
01:21 Last home game, Kennel Club was great.
01:24 So, I thought then that second half,
01:26 we really turned it up, shot the ball well.
01:28 We would go eight of 16 from the three-point line,
01:32 and 34 of 60, so 56% overall,
01:35 and then make 18 free throws.
01:36 So, it was a very good offensive night for us.
01:39 - Yeah, I mean, Santa Clara, I think,
01:41 might have the best matchup against Gonzaga,
01:46 simply 'cause of the size.
01:47 I mean, Rob, when you talk about,
01:50 when you look at a matchup,
01:51 if you're a big, but you're being guarded by 6'4", 6'5" guys,
01:55 what does the look change for you,
01:58 in regards to what you, as a big,
01:59 have to focus in on, think about?
02:01 - It all depends.
02:02 I think when you're playing those small guys,
02:05 especially those muscular guys,
02:07 you're not gonna win that.
02:09 That's just a battle of, like, gravity,
02:12 and, you know, they're pushing,
02:13 they just have a lower sense of gravity.
02:16 So, that sense, get out and set a ball screen,
02:20 roll, make that person move,
02:22 so you're not just constantly having to fight.
02:24 And that can wear.
02:27 So, I like to, when we play, like, smaller teams,
02:32 I wanna see EK move, set ball screens,
02:36 get those guys moving, so then he can get a roll,
02:40 and get a switch, maybe, on someone else, you know?
02:43 - EK's been tremendous lately.
02:45 The Pacific game, 9 of 9 from the field,
02:47 then Portland, he was 9 of 14,
02:48 then Santa Clara, 9 of 13.
02:50 I mean, Drew Timmy's efficiency numbers were off the charts,
02:54 but this is like...
02:56 - I think the hierarchy has been set.
02:58 I think, and you can tell there's a different demeanor
03:02 amongst them now, if you look at, after the Kentucky game,
03:07 I think that was a great win for us,
03:09 'cause it learned, we had to grind it out,
03:11 and now we have our confidence,
03:13 and I think we've kind of established our hierarchy
03:16 of who do we go to, and when do they need a shot,
03:21 and Graham is, he's kind of stepped up to be our guy,
03:26 I think, that's what it looks like to me,
03:28 and now guys are knowing, okay,
03:29 where they can get their shots.
03:31 - Yeah, looking at the upcoming week,
03:35 at San Francisco, at Chase Center,
03:37 it counts as a quad one opportunity,
03:40 even though it's a neutral site game,
03:42 Gonzaga might have more fans in San Francisco.
03:45 Looking back at the first game, Mo,
03:46 what do you see as the important aspects
03:49 Gonzaga's got to be great at on Thursday?
03:52 - You have to understand all the actions that they run.
03:55 You know, when Kyle Smith was there,
03:57 and then Todd Golden, they established kind of
04:00 a similar style to us with the wave action,
04:04 dribble handoffs, your switch packages
04:05 have to be really good.
04:07 Kyle Bankhead, former Zag, is really good.
04:09 Scout against us as well, so they usually have
04:12 some unique things that they do defensively,
04:15 but we're more talented than them,
04:19 and I think it's an advantage that we're playing
04:21 at the neutral, we always have a weird game
04:24 in that small gym. - The worst.
04:27 - Yeah, it's a hard place to play.
04:30 - And people don't realize that, too.
04:32 Their fans come up, and it is packed for that game,
04:36 and it's a crazy environment,
04:39 'cause you feel like they're on top of you.
04:41 - You guys remember the game last year,
04:43 Razier Bolton had that putback, and the crowd,
04:45 the fan on the baseline got right in his face.
04:48 - He was yelling at an official, though,
04:49 so that was a camera-angled issue.
04:53 - It was a camera-angled thing?
04:53 - Yeah, we checked on it, and that's what,
04:56 and if you look at it, a different angle,
04:58 but it was funny, 'cause you saw it on TV.
05:00 Anyway, I think it's a great opportunity for us,
05:04 like you said, a quad one, I think they're in the 60s
05:07 or something in the net.
05:08 If we win that, then we're solidified in second,
05:11 and then that St. Mary's game still has significance,
05:15 but we still have that first round bye in the tournament.
05:17 So, it's gonna be good.
05:19 Graham's gotta continue to play well.
05:20 Nolan's played tremendous the last three, four games.
05:24 Nembhard's been great from a floor perspective.
05:28 He's scoring it great, too,
05:29 but from a floor perspective in WCC play,
05:32 so it's just gotta continue.
05:34 - Yeah, I think Hickman has kind of been the unsung hero
05:38 over the last four to six weeks.
05:41 I mean, his ball screen reads is just,
05:44 his quiet confidence has gotten better.
05:48 I think, at times, he would make a mistake,
05:51 and he wouldn't go for the next opportunity.
05:54 Now, he makes a mistake,
05:56 he knows he's locked in on the next play,
05:58 and he makes up for those mistakes,
06:01 which all great players do.
06:03 But you play St. Mary's, they're gonna grind it out.
06:07 You're gonna have to make consistent,
06:09 concise decisions throughout the night.
06:13 - Who were you matched up with when you guys played?
06:15 - Waldo and Samhan.
06:18 - Samhan might have been the biggest villain
06:21 of Gonzaga player.
06:22 - I think that's when the rivalry began, honestly.
06:25 I think that was exactly when that rivalry,
06:28 because I know Randy came in at 2010.
06:33 - No, Randy was there when I played.
06:38 - He was there, isn't this,
06:40 then Wazoo's coach was there with Samhan.
06:45 - Kyle was an assistant at that time, I believe,
06:49 with Randy, yeah.
06:50 - Okay, gotcha, gotcha.
06:51 I didn't know the dynamics of that,
06:54 but Randy got these bigs, man,
06:59 and they know how to battle,
07:01 and Saxon's one of those bigs to me.
07:04 The key to these guys is keeping them off the glass.
07:10 I think they do a tremendous job
07:12 of crashing the glass every single time,
07:16 and he's got those guys geared up for that.
07:19 - Well, Saxon at one point was leading the country
07:21 in offensive rebounds per game at over four.
07:23 I think he's probably top 10 now,
07:26 but as you say, he just goes to the glass.
07:29 I do have a message for you, though, from Mickey McConnell.
07:34 - Of course you do.
07:35 (laughing)
07:36 Of course he do.
07:37 - 'Cause I have before--
07:37 - He's on the coaching staff now, right?
07:39 - Yeah, he is.
07:40 So before I had a St. Mary's game earlier this year,
07:43 we were just talking the Gonzaga-St. Mary's matchups
07:46 and rivalries, and I asked him,
07:47 'cause he was player of the year one year.
07:49 I said, "How did those Gonzaga games go for you?"
07:52 He goes, "I had a good one one time,"
07:54 and I said, "Really, what happened?"
07:55 He said, "I hit a game winner over Rob Socrates."
07:58 So I don't wanna know about--
08:01 - Directly over, hand contested.
08:03 I couldn't have played any better.
08:07 I'm not even gonna, I'm tootin' my horn.
08:09 I couldn't have played better D,
08:11 and he hit an amazing shot.
08:13 Kudos to him, obviously.
08:15 I was devastated after that.
08:17 And yeah, dude, it's been a rivalry ever since for me,
08:22 I think.
08:23 - Yeah, I had to mention that just 'cause we had chatted
08:27 about that, and I knew, obviously,
08:29 I was gonna see you soon, but it's become a great rivalry.
08:32 And I think the first matchup in Spokane,
08:35 Josh Jefferson was one of the difference makers.
08:38 - He was a difference maker, yeah.
08:38 - He was, I mean, he's 6'8", can step out,
08:41 shoot it well enough, and he's gotten confident
08:43 as the season's gone on.
08:44 He's strong, he's athletic, he's sore on the inside.
08:46 He can switch defensively, but he's out for the season now.
08:51 Knee surgery, how much do you think
08:54 that's gonna change how they play?
08:56 - Yeah, I mean, it allows us to maybe stick Ben Gregg
09:01 or even an Anton Watson on Marcellas, the point guard,
09:04 which I know sounds different,
09:05 but he's such a big, strong kid that we have that option.
09:10 I thought Jefferson was fantastic for him.
09:12 He's their Anton Watson, right?
09:15 Do everything guy, can finish, like you said,
09:17 can post up, capable shooter.
09:21 So that's a huge loss.
09:22 I feel bad for the kid.
09:23 He was having a tremendous season breakout year.
09:26 So it really changes the dynamic for them.
09:29 Offensively, it gives us more outs.
09:31 Defensively, I think we can double team Saxon now
09:34 'cause we don't have to worry about dump down passes.
09:36 And then it puts a lot of pressure on the kid like Dukas.
09:39 It's a fifth year senior,
09:40 he's gotta play better for them to win.
09:42 So it's a good break for us.
09:45 It sucks that it comes in that manner,
09:46 but it definitely is gonna help our chances.
09:49 - Well, he mentioned possibly doubling Saxon.
09:52 Saxon's not like a 20 point per game score,
09:55 but Rob, what's the thought process of doubling a big
09:59 who might not be a big scorer?
10:02 Because there's lots of different philosophies out there.
10:04 - I'm not into the whole doubling
10:06 unless he really is impacting the game dramatically.
10:12 I think we kind of,
10:14 you have to prove yourself to get doubled.
10:16 That's my thought.
10:17 Obviously he can stir up turnovers,
10:20 which if you wanna speed up the game,
10:22 that'd be a great idea.
10:23 But I don't think he, to me,
10:27 or maybe and or keep one of our guys out of foul trouble.
10:32 I get that idea too.
10:34 My thing is, and I'm going back to it,
10:37 is keeping him off the glass.
10:39 If it's a way to keep him single handedly off the glass,
10:42 then yes.
10:43 But I don't think,
10:45 he doesn't seem like he needs to be doubled yet.
10:49 Yet.
10:50 But that's my thought process.
10:51 - Sure.
10:53 Player of the Year in the conference.
10:55 You asked me a couple of weeks ago,
10:57 I probably would have said Marcellonis or Jonathan Mobo,
11:00 maybe Anton Watson.
11:02 I think Graham Ekay's crept into that conversation.
11:04 I think it's a three man race now.
11:07 Marcellonis, Ekay, or Watson.
11:11 Mahaney, I think is a really good player,
11:13 but he's gotten--
11:15 - His numbers aren't good enough.
11:16 - Well, Marcellonis has made the game easier
11:19 for him the second half of the season.
11:20 If you guys have a pick,
11:22 who's your Player of the Year in the League?
11:23 - Graham, I think he's been the most consistent.
11:26 He spearheaded our great stretch here.
11:30 If you look at his numbers,
11:31 he's probably shooting in the 60s in conference play.
11:35 I think it's eight or nine straight games
11:37 with 19 or more, basically 20.
11:39 So obviously he's been fantastic.
11:42 It's not just 'cause he's a zag,
11:43 it's how much he's impacting the game scoring-wise for us.
11:48 Matters.
11:50 And we're gonna most likely finish in second, maybe first.
11:53 So that matters too.
11:54 You gotta be on one of the better teams.
11:56 - We gotta get Pepperdine to help.
11:58 I don't think Pepperdine can beat St. Mary's, unfortunately.
12:01 - I don't think so either.
12:02 But finishing second's not bad, it's still a bye.
12:04 But I think Graham, for sure.
12:07 - I was gonna say, it all depends on Saturday.
12:09 - Yeah, that's a good point.
12:11 - Like, if they win,
12:13 I think one of their guys will get it.
12:16 But if we win, I think Graham definitely deserves it.
12:22 There's no answer.
12:24 He's playing phenomenal right now,
12:26 and averaging, like, what, 20 in the last three, four games?
12:31 - It's more, yeah, it's a streak of 19 or more
12:33 in like eight games in a row.
12:34 - Yeah, so he's playing at a high clip
12:39 that you have to acknowledge that.
12:41 I think Saturday is going to,
12:44 and this is a, they're coming out
12:47 to have an undefeated league play for the first time.
12:50 So this isn't gonna be a walk in the park type deal.
12:54 They're coming out to try to,
12:56 and I can see that team putting a banner up,
12:59 going 20-0 in the league.
13:00 That's just the type of stuff they do, you know?
13:04 And so it all depends on Saturday.
13:09 - This past Saturday was senior night for Anton Watson.
13:13 He's become one of the all-timers at Gonzaga.
13:17 Do you guys remember your senior night?
13:18 Well, you didn't, but you knew you were leaving, right?
13:21 Did you do any kind of speech post-game?
13:24 - No.
13:24 - But everybody knew you were gone.
13:26 - No, I didn't announce that.
13:28 Yeah, but they didn't, it was different back then.
13:32 We didn't do the walk down, we didn't do the video stuff.
13:35 Like, it was just a different atmosphere.
13:37 It was, you know, it's a happy but sad deal, you know?
13:48 You know you're moving on to greener pastures afterwards,
13:51 but at the same time, like, you're leaving,
13:54 the biggest thing is you're leaving your brothers.
13:56 I think that's the, like, and for the guys
14:01 that are playing now, you don't realize it,
14:03 but then in the next level,
14:07 it's not that brotherly love at all, at all.
14:11 And so I think that's the hardest thing is, you know,
14:15 especially with the guys you've come in with.
14:18 I know some of these guys haven't played all
14:21 with each other for that many years,
14:23 but the ones you did come in with
14:25 and you played two, three years with each other
14:29 and grinded it out and been in battles,
14:32 you start reflecting on those.
14:34 And then it gets a little emotional in that aspect,
14:37 but, you know, he's, Anton's had an unbelievable career.
14:42 - I mean, it's hard to place him exactly where
14:44 on like the list.
14:48 He's an all-timer, but what do you think
14:50 his biggest impact as a Zag was?
14:53 Just his ability to do anything it takes to win?
14:56 - His selflessness.
14:57 I think it's hard to find a guy
15:00 that just does all the nitty gritty stuff
15:05 and doesn't look for the attention.
15:09 Like, I don't think he's ever, to me,
15:12 seemed like he's ever craved to get that attention,
15:15 but he's done all the stuff
15:18 that you need to do to win games.
15:20 Like, just, you need that type of,
15:22 he reminds me of Mike Hart in a lot of ways,
15:25 in the sense of he does the stuff that a lot of people,
15:30 it's not on the stat sheet,
15:32 but it needs to be done to win games.
15:35 It has to be done.
15:37 And he does that.
15:38 And so he's an all-time Zag for sure.
15:41 - You think Ben Gray can kind of replace
15:44 a little bit of that next year?
15:46 - Yeah.
15:47 - I mean, he's done some of it at times this year.
15:48 - I have similar body type and move.
15:50 I mean, obviously Anton's more polished,
15:52 but I think that's what, knock on wood,
15:55 if after the season's done,
15:57 if we hold onto our roster,
16:00 and that's a real thing,
16:01 that Braden Huff would move into that solidified third big,
16:04 and then Ben will play the Anton role,
16:06 so then Braden can get more minutes
16:08 subbing in for a Grand VK, and that's it.
16:11 You get what I'm saying?
16:12 - Yeah.
16:13 - So hopefully that's the case,
16:14 but that's what I envision the roster to be next year.
16:17 - The roster changing of college basketball
16:20 is gonna be crazy.
16:22 - Stupid.
16:23 - And the thing is though, is Gonzaga's,
16:26 outside of Anton being the only senior,
16:28 if these guys understand and realize
16:31 there's an opportunity to have--
16:32 - A core group.
16:33 - Chemistry and a core group coming back next year,
16:36 I still think they've got a chance
16:37 to make a nice run this year,
16:40 but this could be a really good team next year.
16:43 - Yeah, I just don't hold my breath with--
16:45 - With the rules?
16:46 - 22 year old, 20 year old kids.
16:49 Think about if you were that age,
16:54 and there's money just being thrown at you
16:57 from multiple places, I don't know what I would do.
17:01 I don't know what I would do, honestly.
17:03 And it's easy to say,
17:08 oh, keep that core group together,
17:10 and you guys can do something special,
17:12 but at the same time,
17:14 it's a way different stratosphere
17:18 where we're at in college basketball.
17:20 There's a lot of money being thrown.
17:22 I think they could do something really cool next year.
17:29 I just, I don't know.
17:32 You're holding your breath on 19 and 20 year olds.
17:35 - Well, there was 1,800 transfers last year.
17:38 I can only imagine that's gonna be more this year.
17:41 - They gotta do something.
17:43 It's affecting the game throughout the whole,
17:45 and I'm all for people getting paid,
17:48 but the transfer portal is a problem.
17:50 - One of the things I heard about
17:52 as an idea, as a fix, is like,
17:56 'cause you'll have teams playing
17:58 still in their conference tournament,
18:00 in the NCAA tournament, and the portal's already popping.
18:03 Stephen Gentry told me that they, last year,
18:05 they had just gotten done with shootaround in Vegas.
18:07 I can't remember if it was before UCLA or before UConn.
18:10 They were on a Zoom with Graham E.K. for the next season.
18:13 There's gotta be a way to hold off the actual,
18:18 I'm in the portal until the turn's over.
18:21 - Yeah, because-- - And then it's a four-week
18:22 free-for-all or something.
18:24 - 'Cause you guys have, you're not focused
18:26 on the real, what is at hand,
18:28 and especially those teams that are trying
18:31 to make a little run, and you might need that sixth man,
18:35 or that fifth guy, fifth option.
18:38 He's now focusing on getting paid or going somewhere,
18:41 and you're like, "Nah, we can still keep winning right now.
18:44 "What are you doing?
18:45 "Let's stay focused on the mission at hand."
18:48 And that's where it's like,
18:50 that's where I'm not a big fan.
18:52 There's too many distractions
18:55 when it comes to that portal thing.
18:56 - Yeah.
18:57 If I remember right, you broke your foot in college, right?
19:01 Drew Timmy's last couple weeks, he broke his foot.
19:04 It looks like he's done for the season.
19:06 What would your advice be to Drew
19:08 as he kind of works through his rehab process?
19:11 'Cause you came back as good as new.
19:14 - Eat clean, really, especially now that
19:18 you're getting older.
19:20 I'm not saying he's only 22, whatever, 23,
19:24 but at this point, your body is a machine,
19:28 and it really, it's a big key to take care
19:32 of what you're eating and doing the right stuff
19:35 to get in that rehab back.
19:36 And just stay positive,
19:38 because we think it's the end of the world, it's bigger,
19:42 but it's only a little period of time.
19:46 So if you can focus on getting through that period of time,
19:50 great things will happen.
19:52 - Yeah.
19:53 Mo, you hit big shots, daggers, both home and away.
19:57 Court storming has become a big deal.
20:01 You saw the Duke game, I'm sure, this weekend.
20:03 Wake Forest wins, they storm the court.
20:06 Filipowski, their best player, gets run into,
20:08 might be hurt, haven't seen how long he's gonna be out.
20:12 Any court stormings that you can remember,
20:14 and how big of an issue is it to you?
20:16 - Yeah, no, we lost to St. Mary's my sophomore year
20:18 at their place, and they stormed the court.
20:21 And your elbows get up, and vulgar things are said to you.
20:26 So I get it.
20:30 Did you see how he get, I don't mean guys get hurt,
20:33 but come on, man.
20:35 Did you see how he just, he got hit,
20:39 like you weren't seven feet tall.
20:41 Maybe I'm being biased, but I'll just say it.
20:44 - Well, you're a seven footer.
20:45 - I looked at him like, come on, man.
20:47 You're gonna let this small guy bump into it?
20:51 I don't know.
20:52 I wish no injury on no man, obviously,
20:55 but I'm looking at that film, and the way he just,
20:59 like you've just been battling the 300 pound guy
21:02 for the last 40 minutes.
21:04 You're gonna just go out like that?
21:06 I don't know.
21:08 - The engineering major takes him out,
21:10 and he's good at five yards.
21:12 - Yeah, come on, man.
21:13 I don't know.
21:14 That's how I looked at it.
21:15 I was like, dude, you've been battling
21:17 a massive human being for this whole game.
21:21 What, Efton, you've been seeing Efton this whole game,
21:24 and now this little grade school kid
21:28 is gonna knock you out?
21:29 I don't know.
21:30 I just, I don't wish injury on anybody.
21:32 - Yeah, I was a part of two court stormings.
21:34 Once, when I was at U-Dub, and we beat UCLA
21:37 to seal our trip to the NCAA tournament,
21:40 and then senior year, we beat Pepperdine
21:43 to kind of win the conference tournament.
21:45 It's fun, but it's like, almost like
21:48 when you're in the midst of it,
21:49 for the team that's cheering. - It's wild.
21:51 - Like, after about 10 seconds, you're like,
21:53 okay, I'm done, get me out of here.
21:54 - Right, right.
21:56 Well, it's wild, and it's good damage.
21:59 That's part of college sports.
22:01 I don't wish injury, but.
22:03 - So you say, just keep it?
22:05 Like, how do you get rid of it?
22:06 - I understand, but then here's the thing,
22:09 that like Adam was saying, there's vulgar language.
22:13 You don't want your players to be in the same
22:17 like, basic contact, arms reach away from somebody.
22:23 So you gotta be aware of that as well,
22:26 and people will say outrageous stuff
22:29 to just get under athlete's skin.
22:31 You don't want to be, you don't want those problems.
22:34 At the same time, it brings that whole
22:36 college atmosphere into it.
22:38 - Yeah. - Can't do it anywhere else.
22:40 - Okay, so Mo, you said vulgar things were said.
22:43 I mean, without going into full detail.
22:45 - No, it's just like, you know, guys,
22:48 you know, saying you suck or whatever,
22:50 and just normal college brat dude stuff.
22:54 You know, if you lose, you're obviously upset,
22:56 so that can be a problem.
22:58 Fear of injury is a real thing.
23:01 People want a cheap shot all the time.
23:04 It's just one of those deals, I don't know how you stop it.
23:06 I know the SEC does 100,000 fine,
23:09 and I think the other leagues are only, it's like five.
23:12 So it's kind of one of those things.
23:13 - It's like a slap on the wrist.
23:15 - Yeah, 100,000 makes sense, but even then,
23:18 how do you stop that many bodies just running on the floor?
23:23 And like Rob said, it's part of the fun experience.
23:26 I had a, they stormed the court in Santa Clara
23:29 when I was a freshman, we won the league,
23:31 the tournament there, that was a cool memory for me.
23:35 But at the same time, the way the gambling is now,
23:39 and like parlays and all that crazy stuff,
23:41 like people get pissed off at guys
23:44 more than just wins or losses.
23:47 So that's a real thing.
23:48 Safety is a real thing.
23:51 Insurance-wise too, like if you're an entity,
23:53 like how many bodies on a floor?
23:55 Like you gotta be like, somebody slips and falls,
23:59 but it says at the back of the ticket,
24:02 don't ever enter the playing surface.
24:03 But if you get morbidly injured,
24:06 they throw those stuff out too.
24:07 So I don't know, I don't know how you solve it.
24:09 I think it's cool, but also I stormed the field
24:12 when my cousin played at Wyoming football this year,
24:15 and it was cool.
24:16 Like I stormed the field with everybody, it was awesome.
24:18 - Who'd they beat?
24:19 - They beat Texas Tech at home in overtime.
24:22 So it was just a cool moment.
24:23 So I get it, but like what if I was an asshole
24:27 and wanted to like trip a kid or something?
24:28 So it's a hard one in my opinion.
24:31 You know what I'm saying?
24:32 - No, it's a tough one.
24:34 Because you know, when you're on the road
24:37 and you're playing in that, you're trying,
24:40 first of all, it's us against the world,
24:43 and you're trying to avoid that whole situation,
24:46 'cause you can feel them trying to get onto the court.
24:50 And that's something you wanna like, as a player,
24:53 you're like, "No, no, no, not today, y'all.
24:56 "Like this isn't, you guys aren't gonna storm this court."
24:59 And so it kind of gives an incentive to play even harder
25:04 when you don't need it, but.
25:05 - Well, I think, well, if you wanna go into
25:10 the earlier deal with Kaitlin Clark, I'd-
25:12 - Yeah, I was thinking that one too.
25:12 - I'd bring it over too.
25:15 The thing that will solve it too though is just,
25:18 and the kids should know this,
25:20 they grew up in a more technology time,
25:23 it's like everything's on camera, every angle.
25:25 So no matter what you do,
25:26 if you think you're gonna get away with it,
25:28 then just start saying you're expelled
25:30 or you lose a semester if you-
25:33 - Touch a player.
25:34 - Touch a player or do something
25:36 that's obviously inappropriate.
25:39 Then I think you can still storm
25:41 if people will be smarter, but I don't know.
25:43 It's such a hard topic.
25:45 'Cause it's like, like Rob said,
25:47 it's a college experience, like going to a game.
25:50 Attendance in college basketball
25:52 has obviously been down for years.
25:54 It's not as highly covered or whatever.
25:59 So like you want students there, but then also,
26:03 I mean, we had the issue with our deal this year.
26:04 It wasn't a storm court, but they were inappropriate.
26:07 - There was plenty of fireball bottles.
26:09 - Yeah, throwing shooters on the court and stuff like that.
26:11 So it's a hard topic, man.
26:15 - The people to ask are like the ADs and the administrators.
26:19 - Yeah, 'cause they would have to enforce
26:21 whatever rule is come up with.
26:23 - 'Cause you've seen the people with the vests on
26:26 come out with like a little tiny robe.
26:28 - Yeah, the robes.
26:29 They ain't gonna do anything to 100 people.
26:31 - And they're afraid they ain't holding those robes back.
26:34 I'll tell you that.
26:34 - And like, are you gonna ask somebody,
26:36 sometimes these are older people or whatever,
26:38 and it's like their side hustle gig.
26:40 Like, hey, take somebody out for,
26:43 just so they don't go on the court.
26:44 I'd be like, screw you, man.
26:45 - 'Cause then there's another one right there.
26:47 - Yeah, yeah, exactly.
26:48 Like, okay, it's a side hustle for a lot of these people
26:51 and good for them.
26:51 We need those type of people to run the facilities,
26:55 but I wouldn't go out of my way to ask.
26:58 (laughing)
26:59 - Drop a college student, what's the other one?
27:01 - Go ahead, man, have fun.
27:03 So I don't know, it's a weird one.
27:05 - Well, the other kind of big picture thing that's come up,
27:09 and it comes up every year at this time,
27:10 like bubble teams, and then you have the power conference.
27:14 Like, we should have this many teams in.
27:15 If we don't, let's expand the tournament.
27:18 It went from 64 to 68 a few years back.
27:20 Now they're talking about 96.
27:22 That to me would ruin the,
27:24 it wouldn't ruin the NCAA tournament,
27:26 it would diminish the--
27:28 - Making it.
27:29 - Yeah, of making it, exactly.
27:30 Like, it's not, it's like--
27:32 - It's a participation--
27:33 - Yeah, it's like a youth participation trophy.
27:36 If you're not good enough throughout the course of the year,
27:38 you shouldn't be in it.
27:39 I think you keep it at 68.
27:40 - You need wins and loss, that's life.
27:43 - Wins and losses is life, you know?
27:46 And that's where you learn it is you didn't make it.
27:49 So guess what?
27:50 We gotta get better so we can make it the next year.
27:53 And they can't add it, they can't add any more games.
27:56 I believe making it to 68 is a little bit too much.
28:00 Keep it a solid 64, and then go from there.
28:04 - Because when you look at the first four,
28:06 when they went from 64 to 68,
28:08 those four teams that play in Dayton,
28:11 those are generally your power five teams
28:14 that had a 500 or sub-500 record
28:17 versus like a Mountain West fifth place team.
28:20 Like, in one of the bracketologists I've seen
28:23 has Gonzaga playing in that first four.
28:26 Like, I just, if you're in a power conference
28:29 and you can't win more than half your games,
28:31 you should not be in the NCAA tournament.
28:33 You've had enough opportunities.
28:34 - Yeah, no, I agree.
28:35 I think 96 would just water down the excitement of it.
28:40 It is also an entertainment product
28:42 and it's a money-making thing,
28:43 so I think that's why they would expand it.
28:46 But like, so--
28:48 - That's conference tournament week, though.
28:50 - 100%.
28:51 But that doesn't all pool into one deal, right?
28:55 So I think 68's perfect.
28:58 I think the first four's kinda cool.
29:00 I don't like how there's like 11 seeds at the planet.
29:03 I always thought you should just do all the 16s, right?
29:06 And then they play each other, or I don't know.
29:09 I just don't get, like, if you're 11 seed,
29:12 I think 16 to 50, yeah,
29:13 why do you have to play that extra game?
29:15 But that's just here nor there.
29:16 But I think it's great that they have that.
29:20 But 96 just doesn't, like you said,
29:22 you get a chance, you play in your conference.
29:25 If you're in a good conference
29:26 and you're below 500 or whatever,
29:29 like, let's get better next year.
29:31 - Well, perfect example, a couple years ago,
29:33 Indiana had the Big Ten,
29:34 and I've thought the Big Ten has overrated for years.
29:36 They haven't sent a team to the Final Four
29:38 since like 2001 or something like that, I think.
29:41 Michigan State, yeah.
29:42 But they--
29:45 - Michigan State's made more Final Fours since 2001, though.
29:48 - Sorry, championship. - Championship.
29:49 - Since 2001, yeah.
29:50 But generally, they've underperformed in the NCAA tournament.
29:54 They'll get all these teams in and they won't advance.
29:57 It was Indiana played in the first four, they won.
30:01 Then they went to Portland and played St. Mary's,
30:04 and St. Mary's beat 'em by 30.
30:06 - And it's like, Indiana acted like they could care less
30:09 that they were playing another game.
30:11 It's like, you're in the NCAA tournament.
30:13 Like, that's the whole idea to me,
30:16 is like, you had a chance to earn it.
30:18 They didn't obviously take that bid
30:21 and really value it and make the most of it.
30:26 - Yeah, I just think it's a special tournament,
30:31 and yeah, they're always trying to figure out
30:33 how to make money off of it.
30:35 It's just, you water it down,
30:38 you water the level of play down if you add 90-whatever.
30:43 - Well, just where's the anxiety during the year
30:47 to be good, right?
30:48 If you get 96 in, you can literally be like,
30:52 what do we gotta go, 18 and 14?
30:56 And sometimes there's good teams that should get in.
30:59 - Maybe they had injuries.
31:00 - Very few, but like, if they're in a gauntlet conference.
31:03 But other than that, it's just like,
31:06 that's part of the joy of the tournament, is getting to it.
31:10 So I don't know, 'cause then you're just saying,
31:13 all right, top of the pyramid gets wider,
31:16 and all the big schools now just get in by default, right?
31:20 - Yeah, I don't like that.
31:21 - Yeah, it's just like, we're back to just
31:24 all the big money gets to win again and whatnot.
31:28 - So, couple last questions, Rob, before we wrap up.
31:31 But we talked to you before the season got started,
31:35 and you took on the role as a high school coach
31:37 here in Spokane, and you were excited for the opportunity.
31:41 You guys have had to put together a tremendous season.
31:44 You guys are going to the state tournament
31:46 later this week over in Tacoma.
31:48 Tell us how that experience has been,
31:50 maybe the biggest challenges, maybe something you,
31:54 have you talked to Coach Few about adjustments
31:56 as a coach you have to make?
31:57 Just give us a scouting report on the season for you.
32:01 - You know, the best thing I can say is no peaks, no valleys.
32:06 We didn't get too high on some games, we didn't get too low.
32:10 We didn't get too high on all the success,
32:15 but also, there's been some real big growing pains,
32:21 and we never got too low on those either.
32:23 So, it's been, it's definitely helped me grow as a coach.
32:28 I coach my son's 12-year-old basketball team,
32:32 and it's helped me grow as a coach and learn.
32:35 It's been a learning experience to say the least,
32:40 definitely, about myself,
32:41 and then helping young men grow as well.
32:44 - You enjoyed it?
32:45 - I have, you know, it's a lot, man.
32:50 It's a lot, I love it.
32:51 It's a lot, though, because you start thinking about kids
32:54 at 11.30 at night, like, man,
32:58 how can I get this kid an open shot?
33:00 Like, how do I make it fit for him to play this role?
33:05 You're just thinking constantly about the team,
33:08 and you're like, but, you know, I wouldn't change anything,
33:12 and I'm really proud of how these guys
33:14 have stepped up to the challenge.
33:15 There's, obviously, there's some habits
33:18 I still want to nip in the butt,
33:19 but I know this is a process,
33:22 and it can't be just done overnight
33:24 and just have to take little bites
33:27 throughout the whole season.
33:29 - You've watched him coach this year, right?
33:31 What's your scouting report on him as a coach?
33:34 - Actually, Rob does a really good job of,
33:38 his teams play hard, they run really good actions,
33:40 and I've told that to everybody,
33:41 not just to go to the camera,
33:42 but, you know, the assumption is
33:45 you guys are just rolling the ball.
33:46 I'm like, no, they run spay and action,
33:47 they run a lot of stagger, they run a lot of high-low,
33:50 so they manipulate teams with their size.
33:52 And then, defensively, you guys do what you should be doing,
33:56 you just fly around and kind of switch everything.
33:58 So I think he's done a great job, honestly,
34:00 on getting the guys to believe,
34:03 and then filtering the ball to the right spots.
34:06 That's the hardest thing to do,
34:07 and especially in high school,
34:09 'cause everybody's kid,
34:11 our parents think their kid's the best, and they're not.
34:14 It's just the reality of it.
34:15 And people get fired when you don't please everybody.
34:20 So he's done a good job of moving the ball
34:23 to the right spots and getting the kids to believe in that.
34:25 I mean, North Central,
34:26 when's the last time you guys were there, '15?
34:29 - 2011.
34:29 - 2011, what about before that, do you have any idea?
34:32 - No clue.
34:32 - So, like, North Central, you know,
34:35 not to, their basketball program hasn't been very good
34:38 at all.
34:39 And so it's pretty cool that North Central, you know,
34:43 the AAs won the districts, and they're going to state.
34:46 - The, I think, going back to what you're saying,
34:49 the key, especially if you're trying to start a program,
34:53 those first three to four games of the season are crucial.
34:58 Crucial, because if we had lost, we were three and one.
35:04 So we lost to Mount Spokane,
35:07 and that was a good loss for us at the beginning
35:09 of the season.
35:10 But those first three games, they saw it worked.
35:14 - Yeah.
35:15 - And then they could, they started to buy in.
35:17 - Buy in.
35:18 But if we had gone one and four,
35:21 it could have been a completely different nightmare,
35:24 you know, but we started off strong.
35:27 And so then that's when you can start building
35:30 the momentum of what we're trying to do.
35:32 - Yeah, no, it's awesome.
35:34 'Cause obviously, you know, we all have kids
35:37 that are growing up here.
35:38 So I know I've followed it, Adam's watched it.
35:41 It's been fun to watch.
35:42 Best of luck later this week there.
35:44 - We'll see Mount Spokane in the finals.
35:47 That's what I'm expecting.
35:49 And good.
35:50 - It'll be cool with two Spokane teams, obviously.
35:52 - No, that's what it needs to be.
35:54 It needs to be us two.
35:55 I'm saying it, but that puts Spokane on the map
36:00 of first of all, hoop town, USA.
36:03 And at the same time, like, there needs to put some respect
36:07 on this side of the state.
36:10 There's too much talking about the West side
36:12 when now if we can get North Central and Mount Spokane
36:16 can make it to the finals, man, that's showing
36:19 that there's great basketball on this side.
36:22 - And full disclaimer, my son's on the team.
36:24 He's out with injury, but I've coached those Mount Spokane
36:26 kids since third grade.
36:27 So it's fun for me to watch them go.
36:29 Your daughter, they're the one seed, I believe,
36:31 in the state tournament.
36:33 - There's great, like, there's so much great basketball
36:36 coming out of this city that people need to really start
36:40 to be aware that it's not just this little town anymore.
36:44 We're a little hub for basketball.
36:47 - Awesome, well, last thing to wrap up with,
36:50 obviously San Francisco, St. Mary's are enormous
36:53 quad one opportunities.
36:54 What does Gonzaga have to do to make the NCAA tournament?
36:58 I personally think if they win both of these
37:01 and they lose in the title game of the tournament
37:04 in Vegas, they're in.
37:05 What are your guys' thoughts?
37:06 - That's exactly the scenario.
37:07 I think win these two games and then lose a good loss
37:12 in the championship game, a close game, competitive game,
37:17 I think they would be in.
37:18 But like I've said all year, just get the two seed
37:21 and go win two games in Vegas.
37:22 I'm not gonna worry about it.
37:23 But this is a great opportunity, this road trip
37:26 for two quad ones.
37:27 'Cause then we'll go, Kentucky would be a quad one.
37:31 Those other two, but they do quad one, quad two.
37:35 You know what I'm saying?
37:36 When they put up the deal.
37:37 So I think we'll be like seven and six,
37:41 quad one, quad two or something like that.
37:43 So it's not terrible.
37:45 - And then the semi-final game, depending on who you play,
37:49 if you play San Francisco again, they might still be
37:51 hovering in that quad two range.
37:53 - Yep, yep.
37:54 So I think exactly what the scenario you said,
37:56 I think we're in.
37:57 But just win two games, you don't have to worry about it.
37:59 - Yep.
38:01 - I do not like to put control in anyone else's hands.
38:06 Just win them all, straight up.
38:08 Like don't even, I tell them, the high school kids,
38:12 don't, control your own future.
38:14 And this is just win these two and go win the tournament.
38:18 And this is not even a debate.
38:20 That's how I would, I don't wanna even give the committee
38:25 a reason to go, well, maybe we'll just pull them out
38:28 for the first time and just whatever.
38:30 Don't give them a chance.
38:32 - Perfectly said.
38:34 And I think the way that Gonzaga's playing is
38:36 they could easily win these last four games.
38:38 Move into the tournament with a ton of momentum.
38:41 And you know what, Gonzaga,
38:43 they've been under the radar this year.
38:45 So maybe there's a quiet storm brewing
38:48 where they can make a deep run again.
38:49 You never know.
38:50 'Cause the way EK's playing on the interior
38:52 and the way Hickman and Nembhard are playing,
38:55 Anton Watson figures out what holes need to be fixed,
38:58 whatever it is that night.
39:00 And I think Ben Gregg's energy
39:01 has been tremendous lately as well.
39:03 - Yeah, totally agree.
39:04 It's got a chance to be kind of a sleeper team,
39:07 which kind of hasn't been us for 15 years, right?
39:10 So hopefully they can take care of business.
39:13 Big road trip coming up.
39:15 - Rob, appreciate you joining.
39:16 - Appreciate you guys having me.
39:17 - Mo, always a pleasure to have you.
39:20 We'll be back next week for episode 20.
39:24 Today, episode 19, Talking Zags, Adam Morrison,
39:27 Dan Dickow with special guest, Rob Sockray.
39:30 (upbeat music)
39:33 (upbeat music)