Zach Gourde shares his thoughts on the Bulldogs and favorite memories of the 1998-99 Elite Eight team
Former Gonzaga standout Zach Gourde joins Talking Zags to discuss what he's seen from the Bulldogs this season, as well as his time as a redshirt freshman on the 1998 Elite Eight team
Transcript
00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Gonzaga Nation here with Talking Zags,
00:08 episode number 12.
00:10 Today's guest, a dear friend of mine,
00:13 going back to high school days
00:15 as well as college teammate days,
00:17 none other than Zach Gord,
00:19 joining Adam Morrison and myself.
00:21 So Zach, appreciate you joining.
00:22 - Yeah, thanks for having me.
00:23 - Without a doubt.
00:24 I know we were trying to get you before Christmas,
00:26 but you're unbelievably busy with your work schedule
00:29 and the company that you run with your wife.
00:30 So we'll touch on that later.
00:32 So thanks for making time.
00:34 As we get into it,
00:36 we always like to kind of ask guys
00:38 about the current season, what they see.
00:41 So let's start with,
00:43 you're a guy that sees the game a little bit differently
00:45 than some others.
00:46 I think it's because of the fundamental base
00:49 that you had in your game.
00:51 What are you seeing with this year's team
00:52 in the limited amount of times and chances
00:54 you've watched them either in person or on TV so far?
00:57 - You know, it's odd because early on in the season,
00:59 I thought I saw a bit more grit
01:02 than I'd seen in previous teams,
01:04 a little more toughness,
01:05 but I think other teams have figured that out very quickly
01:07 and managed to counteract that.
01:09 Really, I don't see a team that takes bad shots,
01:11 but I don't see a team that takes really good shots.
01:13 We take a lot of mediocre shots over and over again.
01:16 We settle, we don't push all the way to the rim.
01:20 We're not taking open looks.
01:23 We're looking for something a little bit better
01:24 and ultimately we're getting something a little bit worse.
01:27 - That's an interesting point and it makes a lot of sense.
01:29 We don't take bad shots,
01:31 but we don't necessarily take great shots.
01:33 - Yeah, I mean, there's very little
01:35 that's going all the way to the rim.
01:37 Our bigs are shooting a lot of 12 to 15 foot
01:40 turnaround jumpers.
01:41 When they get to the rim, they're highly effective,
01:43 but they settle a lot
01:45 and these guys are too talented to settle.
01:47 - You're obviously interior post presence.
01:52 I mentioned the fundamental base.
01:54 Your footwork was Drew Timmy before Drew Timmy.
01:57 When you look at the footwork of Drew last year
02:01 and you see what the guys are doing now,
02:04 what stands out to you?
02:06 - He's taking an extra step consistently.
02:09 He's slowed it down a bit on the first move,
02:12 waiting until somebody actually bites
02:14 and then getting pretty good looks.
02:16 I'd like to see him get even closer to the rim,
02:19 establish himself earlier.
02:21 He's really working hard to get down the floor,
02:24 but he's not burying himself as low as he could.
02:28 And I don't think we're taking a great job
02:29 of swinging the ball and looking over the top at him.
02:32 - Yeah, was it the Carolina break we used to run?
02:35 I think we called it Kansas.
02:36 I don't know.
02:37 - Kansas, yep.
02:37 - It's swing it, swing, back screen, lob opportunity
02:41 if it was the right big on that back screen.
02:43 If not, it was a hard duck in seal,
02:45 swing it back high, low over the top.
02:46 That was devastating to a lot of teams.
02:50 - Let's get into the San Diego State game.
02:53 Mo, you called it court side.
02:55 I watched it from TV, being down traveling to Portland area.
03:00 It didn't seem like a fun atmosphere that last 30 minutes.
03:04 I mean, the crowd was into it,
03:06 but things just didn't seem to go well the last 30 minutes.
03:09 - Yeah, our energy was decent to start.
03:12 Obviously without the students being there,
03:15 you have to create your own energy.
03:17 The crowd was good in spurts.
03:19 We were in control of the game
03:23 until the last media timeout.
03:25 It was 3.13 left to go and we were up six
03:28 and we were controlling the pace.
03:29 I think pace was a big factor in my belief
03:33 on how we could win 'cause San Diego State
03:34 was a half court defensive team, real strong bigs.
03:37 Ladee inside was a back to the basket,
03:39 very good player, 21 and nine or something like that.
03:43 So I was saying pace, pace, pace has to be the deal for us
03:46 because in a half court,
03:48 they're a better basketball team defensively
03:50 than we are offensively.
03:51 And up until that point, we had that pace going.
03:55 Graham EK was getting a low inside touches,
03:57 like you mentioned, not taking 12 footers.
04:00 He can make those, but you wanna get a couple
04:02 of duck in layups, foul pressure.
04:04 We all understand that angle baskets.
04:06 But when we got to that 3.13 mark and it happened again,
04:09 what's happened all year, we go one for eight,
04:12 long stretches of poor shooting,
04:14 go one for eight to finish the half.
04:16 They gained momentum, finished up one and a half,
04:20 and then it carried over into the second half.
04:22 And I think by the first media timeout in the second half,
04:25 they were up six or seven.
04:26 So basically it was a 10-0 run
04:28 or whatever the math is, 11-0 run
04:30 to get back in the basketball game.
04:33 And it was just another one of those
04:35 where we couldn't make a basket.
04:37 And it made it real difficult
04:38 because San Diego State's really good defensively,
04:41 decent offensively, but they hang their hat on length
04:44 and then protecting the rim
04:46 and then physical presence inside.
04:48 So our guys played hard,
04:50 but it was just another like U-Dub,
04:53 like Purdue, like UConn, just long stretches
04:57 where we can't make a field goal and it really hurts us.
05:00 - So this question is for both of you guys then.
05:02 How does Gonzaga stay away from those stretches?
05:05 Because it could be kind of stagnant offense,
05:08 like not having a guy create enough space
05:11 or opportunity for himself or for others.
05:13 - Yeah, I think obviously the back court's
05:15 got to play a little bit better.
05:18 Nolan Hickman didn't have a great game
05:20 and Ryan Nembhard didn't have a great game.
05:22 Nembhard was good from the floor,
05:23 and nine assists, I think it was three turnovers,
05:27 but it was five for 14 from the field.
05:29 So shooting the ball wasn't great.
05:31 We need to understand when we're in the bonus,
05:33 if we're a team that doesn't score,
05:35 that is a higher clip we have in the past.
05:37 And I'm talking like 8-0, 10-0, 12-0 runs.
05:40 We don't see that as much this season.
05:42 We have to create foul pressure, especially at home.
05:45 And I don't think we're doing that in stretches this year.
05:47 And I don't know if that's rim running.
05:49 I don't know if that's guards getting
05:51 into guys' hips on shows.
05:53 Because with our lineup,
05:54 there's not a lot of switching opportunities.
05:57 If you're the opposite team,
05:58 you're not going to switch with a guard and a big
06:01 and then have somebody guard Graham Ekay.
06:03 So a lot of it's traditional coverages.
06:06 So schematically, I don't think there's a lot
06:10 that needs to change.
06:12 I think some of it is better basketball IQ.
06:16 And I'm not saying it's bad,
06:18 but it's understanding, okay, we don't have a bucket.
06:20 We haven't scored in a while.
06:21 Let's get some foul pressure.
06:23 Let's get a rim run.
06:24 Let's cherry pick a little bit.
06:26 You know what I'm saying?
06:26 And try to get a layup.
06:28 - It's a contest and a run out.
06:29 Just to make the shooter think twice
06:32 or a weak side offensive player,
06:34 like, hey, I got to get back in transition.
06:36 - Yeah.
06:39 - Because schematically, we're running the same stuff
06:42 we ran for the last decade plus.
06:44 And it obviously works.
06:46 Do we have enough talent?
06:47 Absolutely.
06:48 But also, it's getting to a point
06:50 where some guys need to step up and make jump shots.
06:53 I mean, it sounds as simple as that,
06:55 but it's not even like an analyst take
06:59 of something that you and I could go to a whiteboard
07:01 and a few of you would sit there and listen to us.
07:04 It's like, you got to make a jump shot.
07:06 And I'm not trying to be too critical,
07:08 but the sample size is so big.
07:09 - Well, we're almost halfway into the season now.
07:12 - Yeah, I mean, so I think we just got to find confidence
07:17 and play with a little more,
07:19 like you mentioned, the greediness.
07:21 We saw that earlier.
07:22 We kind of got pushed around in that San Diego State game.
07:24 - We did, and actually,
07:25 touching on something you mentioned,
07:27 we're running the same offense we've been running for years.
07:29 But we're not utilizing the screens as well.
07:31 We're not setting them as hard.
07:32 We're not coming off them as quick.
07:34 We're going through the motions.
07:36 And when we penetrate, we're punching not to go anywhere.
07:38 We're punching to get to the middle,
07:40 but we're not going with any purpose.
07:42 How many times have we watched somebody
07:43 get the ball to 15 feet and either just slowly back it out
07:47 'cause there was nowhere to go,
07:48 or pick it up-
07:50 - With no thrust, yeah.
07:51 - With no thrust and just have to kick it out
07:53 just to kick it out,
07:54 but not to actually create any advantage.
07:56 - Yeah, a lot of it's the dribble penetration
07:58 is to collapse the defense or what you've said,
08:00 to put foul pressure on.
08:02 Like you put the defense in rotation.
08:04 That's what a duck in from a big or a back screen
08:07 guard to big creates confusion.
08:09 It creates secondary closeouts
08:11 or it creates rotation opportunities.
08:13 - And if we're being honest,
08:14 like the lack of three-point shooting ability,
08:16 talking about the traditional pick and roll coverage
08:19 is you're gonna get.
08:20 Those guys on the weak side can tag harder
08:24 because there's no skip to a three shooter.
08:26 Like, think about Strother last year, the Kispert teams.
08:31 If you didn't tag that roll-
08:32 - It was a skip and shot.
08:33 - It was a skip and shot.
08:34 Or if you did, then he's automatically buried seal
08:37 or you do the Baylor thing
08:38 where you just run into the guy that's switching.
08:41 Guard takes the big off the dribble
08:43 and you got two dribbles gets the rim.
08:46 We're not seeing that this year.
08:47 - Yeah.
08:48 I still think there's enough talent shooting wise
08:52 that they'll get it figured out.
08:53 It just, it's kind of a snowball effect.
08:55 It gets started and it gets,
08:57 the confidence can start trickling in the wrong direction.
09:00 They just need another game
09:01 where multiple guys hit multiple threes
09:04 and it'll get going in the right direction.
09:05 I think it's only one game now this season
09:07 they've hit 10 threes or more.
09:08 - Yeah, 12 to 22 against USC and we blew it out.
09:11 - Yeah.
09:11 - So, it makes a huge difference today's game.
09:13 Everybody knows that.
09:14 And three point shot.
09:16 And I've said this before,
09:18 we gotta get the good, not elite.
09:20 We're not even at good yet as far as three point shooting.
09:23 We're not expecting this team to be elite.
09:24 We gotta get the good.
09:25 We're not even at good yet.
09:26 - Yeah.
09:27 We touched on grittiness.
09:28 You did, you brought it up.
09:30 There was kind of the skirmish.
09:32 It looked like Anton Watson was kind of tangled up
09:35 with somebody and Dusty Stromer gave a little push.
09:38 Standing up for a teammate's great.
09:41 You were unbelievable at that.
09:43 You always had my back all the way going back
09:45 to high school, Zach.
09:46 - I was shiftier than Dusty though.
09:48 - Yeah, you kind of hit it a little bit.
09:51 He did kind of push directly in line
09:53 with the official like three feet away.
09:54 I mean, you can't get away from that.
09:56 That being said, he didn't get back in the game
09:58 if I'm not mistaken.
10:01 What did you see being there?
10:03 - So the play happened when the bird kid off the bench
10:07 lefty from Stockton was fantastic for him.
10:09 He brought him an edge.
10:10 He was a hard dive cutter type of kid.
10:13 And then he got going and had to finish around the rim.
10:15 He hit a big three, kind of their energy guy.
10:17 You could tell that's what he was.
10:19 And he, I think he had an end one against Anton
10:22 or a hard foul and he squared up to him
10:24 and went towards him.
10:26 Now Anton did the right thing and didn't back away.
10:29 But then Dusty came over and pushed him.
10:31 So from my perspective, as an official,
10:35 I would have let the Dusty one go
10:36 because if a guy is knuckled up,
10:40 not that he was going to punch him,
10:41 but the gesture.
10:42 - Flexing.
10:43 - Yeah.
10:43 - He's acting hard.
10:44 - Yeah, acting hard.
10:45 Or what are you supposed to do as a teammate?
10:48 And it's not like it was a two hand push.
10:49 I would have been like, hey, stop.
10:52 Don't do that again.
10:52 I'm going to kick you out
10:53 or I'm going to give you a technical.
10:57 That situation, a technical kept me out of a game
11:00 against Washington my freshman year.
11:02 So I saw Dusty after the game.
11:03 I said, what happened?
11:05 And he said, I just pushed the guy.
11:06 And then I go, well, it happened to me my freshman year.
11:08 So I get it.
11:09 I got one holding a jersey on a screen
11:13 and Dave Libby got me on a cheap one.
11:15 - He can get you on anything.
11:16 - I know.
11:17 And Dave was a good guy, a good official,
11:18 but he got, it was a cheap one.
11:19 I remember I saw him like five, six years after
11:23 just on a plane.
11:24 And I sat next to him randomly.
11:26 I was like, Dave, why'd you call?
11:27 And he's like, yeah, it was a weak one.
11:28 Like it was bad.
11:29 It was a technical.
11:30 But Phewy sat me the rest of the game.
11:32 And I was scoring 12 points a game or whatever
11:35 my freshman year off the bench.
11:37 And so I get it,
11:38 but it was kind of puzzling a little bit to not have it.
11:41 - Well, they needed another quasi ball handler threat
11:44 from the outside.
11:45 They went three bigs most of the rest of the game.
11:47 Is that something that both of you guys think?
11:50 'Cause there's two thoughts here.
11:53 Like if, I think Dusty should start,
11:55 but if they brought him off the bench,
11:57 you have a ball handler coming in to replace one of the cards.
12:00 - Well, here's what they wanted to do originally.
12:02 Obviously we talked about the steel vendors
12:04 was gonna play 20, 25, 30 minutes.
12:07 Dusty was gonna play 18 to 25.
12:10 And his energy and impact would have been
12:13 the energy guy off the bench.
12:15 Now that he's playing 35, 40,
12:18 it makes it a little bit harder on your substitution pattern.
12:21 So I hear what you're saying,
12:23 but it's like Luka Kranjovic being out
12:26 and he doesn't obviously trust June yet.
12:29 So he kind of had to go big with Ben Grigg and Brayden Huff.
12:33 - So we've heard a little bit about your
12:35 kind of earning Coach Few's trust.
12:37 You redshirted that '99 year
12:40 when they made that first run under Monson
12:42 and then you played for Coach Few for four years.
12:45 How hard was it to earn Coach Few's trust?
12:47 - It was a little bit of work.
12:52 You know, and I don't think it's necessarily
12:54 all that hard to get it in the first place,
12:56 but if you lose it, getting it back's a real challenge.
13:00 And I struggled, I lost in my senior year.
13:02 Deservedly so.
13:03 I was not playing well.
13:05 I had some, frankly I had some mental health challenges
13:07 that kind of kept me from being the player
13:09 that I should have been at that point.
13:11 And no, I mean I never really got,
13:14 but he would come to me when he needed somebody
13:16 who brought my skill set,
13:18 but when he was unsure, he wasn't going with me.
13:21 And no, I never really got it back.
13:24 - Yeah.
13:25 - But you know, that's the challenges of athletics.
13:27 - Yeah.
13:28 No, it's always one of those things
13:30 where you earn a coach's trust,
13:32 you play with a lot more confidence yourself
13:34 and a lot more freedom.
13:35 - Yep.
13:36 - Braden, and the reason I want to ask you this next question
13:39 is 'cause you were a big.
13:40 Braden Huff, very similar.
13:41 You redshirted his first year on campus like you did.
13:45 Has a tremendous skill set.
13:46 Can score inside with either hand.
13:49 He shoots it from the perimeter differently than you,
13:51 but you earned minutes early as a freshman.
13:54 - Yep.
13:55 - He was earning minutes.
13:55 He's been great against,
13:57 hate to call it inferior competition,
13:59 but the teams he should dominate, he's dominating.
14:01 - Yep.
14:02 - He hasn't quite done that against the better teams yet.
14:06 What are you seeing from him
14:07 or what are you hoping to see growth-wise from him?
14:10 - Well, I just want to see the things he's doing
14:12 against those teams that maybe don't have the talent.
14:15 Slowly transition to do it against the teams
14:17 that have the talent.
14:18 Like the pieces are all there.
14:20 You know, he's getting used to a new pace of play still.
14:22 He's getting used to dealing with bigger bodies,
14:25 all those things.
14:26 He just needs to grow.
14:29 Like he just, time on court is what that takes.
14:31 You know, time in practice helps a lot.
14:34 Time on court matters a lot more.
14:35 So he's fun to watch.
14:37 Like he does a lot of things really well
14:39 and I think he will start doing those things
14:42 against guys that probably would have dominated him,
14:47 you know, two, three months ago.
14:48 - Yeah.
14:49 I agree.
14:50 I mean, it's tough because, you know,
14:53 if you look at our shooting numbers,
14:55 he's one of the better three-point shooters that we have
14:57 with volume, 37% on 27 attempts
15:01 and he's shooting 61% overall from the field.
15:03 10 and a half points, only playing 14 and a half minutes.
15:06 I think the biggest thing he can earn the trust
15:08 is on the defensive end.
15:09 Obviously, Fuey knows that he can score,
15:11 but there's situations where our ball screen coverages
15:15 with our two traditional bigs
15:17 with Graham E.K. and Brayden Huff,
15:19 there's been situations in the game
15:20 where we've been flat out beat on them
15:23 or, you know, your traditional like 90 action
15:26 screen to screen or where there's a late show,
15:29 they get a layup.
15:30 Remember that play, San Diego State,
15:31 ran right out of half, hit off the guy hand.
15:33 - Yeah.
15:34 - That's a dead--
15:35 - That low baseline screen.
15:35 You jump high, you go almost to the--
15:37 - It's a dead layup and you can't have those breakdowns.
15:40 So I think that's where the mistrust comes in.
15:43 Obviously, Coach knows he can score.
15:45 So I think you're right.
15:46 It's time on the court.
15:49 But I think that starts in time and practice.
15:51 And then also starts like, hey, when I get on the floor,
15:54 I gotta make sure that I'm obviously productive
15:57 on the offensive end,
15:58 but I gotta play as hard as I possibly can
16:01 on the defensive end,
16:02 and then your minutes will start to grow.
16:04 But it's a tough spot to be in
16:06 because if your hook is quick,
16:09 then every shot becomes magnified, right?
16:12 We've all been in that spot where any time in our career,
16:15 at one point or the other, where you're like,
16:16 okay, I hope this goes in.
16:18 If it doesn't-- - Guiding it
16:19 instead of shooting it.
16:19 - Exactly, you're guiding it.
16:20 - 'Cause if you don't guide it in,
16:21 you're going right back out.
16:22 - Yes. - Yep.
16:23 So it's tough.
16:25 Hopefully he can earn some more minutes
16:27 because he can score in bunches, obviously.
16:30 I like his touch around the rim.
16:31 I like his pick and pop aspect, so he can space the floor.
16:35 But I think, let's talk about the UW game,
16:38 the play where, was it Ken Pang
16:40 or whatever the kid's name is, had a phenomenal game.
16:42 - Frank Kevlin, yeah.
16:43 - Yeah, went baseline and dunked on him in a few,
16:45 yeah, you know what I'm saying?
16:47 - To his benefit, though,
16:49 Kepnon would have done that on anybody.
16:51 Like, he's 7'1", length athleticism,
16:54 and he played with a passion I've never seen.
16:56 'Cause I've had some UW Pac-12 games
16:58 over the last couple years,
16:59 and I haven't seen him do that against anybody.
17:01 - No, he just needs to get better position off the ball.
17:05 - That's true.
17:06 - Like, he's getting caught in stuff
17:07 'cause he's not quite in the right spot.
17:09 He's either showing late or he's showing flat,
17:11 or he's just dragging a half step behind.
17:13 He just needs to get to the spot a little faster.
17:17 And maybe just understand exactly where that spot is.
17:19 Maybe he's not dialed yet.
17:21 - You were a great player on angles, right?
17:23 Defensively and offensively.
17:24 That's how you made your hay when you throw it inside.
17:27 So I think what you're trying to say is,
17:29 defensively, it's not just on the pick and roll coverage.
17:32 You gotta start recognizing when the duck in is coming,
17:35 and you've gotta get higher than the guy.
17:37 I know sometimes they say don't front,
17:38 but if you can get a three-quarter,
17:40 and then he gets his catch at eight to 11 feet
17:44 instead of four, you have a way better chance.
17:46 - Exactly.
17:47 Manage the angle.
17:48 Only give him one option.
17:49 Give him one way to go.
17:50 It's the exact same thing you do on offense.
17:51 Just make sure they can only go one way.
17:54 - How long does it take to get used to the physicality
17:58 in college basketball as a big?
17:59 'Cause it's different on the guard perimeter.
18:01 I mean, you're fighting over occasional screens here or there
18:03 but a big, you're chucking, you're blocking out,
18:06 you're fighting screens.
18:08 - It's the hardest thing to do, man.
18:09 And I wasn't a big.
18:10 Every time I had the guard inside, I'm like, this sucks, man.
18:13 (laughing)
18:14 - I'm so stupid.
18:15 I fight to the front, and then, oh, I come hard.
18:17 - Yeah, you're just like, this is hard.
18:18 - Every possession, man.
18:19 - I remember it, especially as a freshman,
18:21 just being exhausting.
18:23 - Yeah.
18:24 - Like, being able to play an entire high school game,
18:27 not come out, not even really ever felt like
18:31 I was working that hard.
18:32 Going to four minutes into a college game
18:35 and just sucking wind,
18:36 and not even having done anything on offense.
18:39 Run down the floor, run back,
18:41 just beat on somebody for 30 seconds,
18:43 just do it all over again.
18:44 It's exhausting.
18:46 - Yeah.
18:47 In your Redshirt year and that first part of your year,
18:49 you had to go against some great bigs in practice.
18:52 Casey Calvary, Jeremy Eaton, Uxell Dench.
18:54 - Yep, and I had Scott Snyder beating on me
18:57 all the time, too. - In Redshirt.
18:58 - As a Redshirt, 'cause he was the,
18:59 what did they call it back then?
19:01 Restricted earnings coach.
19:02 - Yeah.
19:02 (laughing)
19:03 - So.
19:04 - Restricted earnings coach?
19:05 - Yeah.
19:06 - Interesting.
19:07 - Yeah, that was,
19:07 that's another way the NCAA has kinda really
19:10 been interesting over the years.
19:12 - Yeah.
19:13 - You've always been real forward thinking
19:14 with a lot of different things.
19:16 What's your take on NIL?
19:17 'Cause you would've made a killing in the coffee houses
19:21 and the bars in Spokane when you were playing.
19:24 - Possibly.
19:25 You know, I think the NIL is a knee-jerk reaction to--
19:31 - Yeah, that's a good way to put it.
19:33 - To a problem that's existed for a long time
19:35 and has needed to be solved for a long time,
19:37 but then you've got the stuff in California
19:39 that necessitates, boom, we've gotta solve this right now,
19:42 and we didn't solve it, we just opened the floodgates.
19:45 - Yeah.
19:45 - I mean, there is no structure, there is no,
19:48 it's gonna be a mess for probably a decade.
19:52 - Yeah.
19:53 - And it's gonna change the face of college athletics.
19:55 There's gonna be a ton of restructuring.
19:56 I mean, how many older coaches have retired
19:59 in the last three years?
20:01 - Roy Williams. - Roy Williams.
20:03 - Coach K, Jay Wright.
20:04 - Not because any of those guys were thinking about retiring.
20:07 Their world just got turned upside down.
20:08 - Yeah.
20:09 - They didn't wanna deal with having to learn
20:11 how to recruit again, having to deal with players
20:14 who were now making essentially professional-level money
20:19 at some schools, or at least European professional-level
20:22 money. - Yeah.
20:23 Real money.
20:25 - Yeah, real money. - Exactly.
20:26 - You know, I mean, I--
20:27 - You don't need a small duffel bag
20:28 to get you through a week or two.
20:30 - Yeah, I was pretty sure I,
20:31 beginning of every month, I was pretty sure
20:34 I could make it to the end of the month.
20:35 - Yeah. - You know?
20:36 And that's just not the reality anymore,
20:38 which is great, honestly, like,
20:39 players have needed to be compensated somehow.
20:42 They just need to come up with a system,
20:45 and as much as I hate to say it,
20:47 like, the NCAA does need to regulate how it's done.
20:50 - Yeah, they put their head in their sand so long,
20:52 and then, like you said, the floodgate's open.
20:54 You can't put restrictions on it quick enough.
20:56 Like, you gotta get input from all these different angles
20:58 and parties, and then try to come up with a formula
21:02 when it's already been blasted through.
21:04 - Yeah, so going off of that,
21:07 obviously, playing in the WCC,
21:08 you understand the conference.
21:10 Like, what's your take on potentially moving to the Big 12
21:12 or getting out of the WCC for Gonzaga?
21:15 You understand all the history and all that stuff,
21:17 and the uniqueness of the West Coast Conference,
21:20 small gyms, Jesuit schools, all that stuff.
21:22 What's your take on it?
21:23 - So, my take is, and so I was president
21:27 of the Student Athlete Advisory Committee
21:28 for a couple years in college,
21:29 so I've got a different perspective on it
21:32 than most basketball players.
21:33 I don't look at it as a basketball problem.
21:35 I look at it as how does Gonzaga function
21:36 in every other sport in any other conference?
21:39 How are we shipping the rowboats for the crew team
21:42 to wherever?
21:45 Like, luckily, Gonzaga men's basketball
21:48 makes a lot of money,
21:48 and the women's basketball team makes money.
21:50 That's an anomaly, and we're very lucky
21:52 to be in that position, but there's not a single other sport
21:55 that makes money, at least not to my knowledge.
21:57 And some of those sports are expensive to run.
22:00 In a D1 program, my memory serves,
22:02 you gotta have 14 programs.
22:04 You have to have parity between men's and women's.
22:07 I think you have to be within 5%
22:09 of competition between the two.
22:11 Like, it gets real hard to take a team
22:14 that's mostly walk-ons on the cross-country team
22:18 and tell them, "Hey, you're now gone twice as much
22:21 "because we gotta ship you across the country."
22:23 - Yeah, that's a good point, especially if they're walk-ons.
22:25 They came for school first.
22:27 They probably chose the school for academics,
22:29 and then they happen to have a chance to be an athlete.
22:31 - So, we always talk about it
22:32 through the men's basketball lens,
22:34 but it's a much more complicated problem than that.
22:35 Like, it's a school-wide athletic department problem,
22:39 and there's a lot of other things that need to be solved
22:41 before we can just jump and say,
22:43 "Hey, we're going to the Big 12."
22:44 - So, you're in favor of it or not?
22:47 I mean, I'm trying to--
22:48 - I just don't think it's feasible.
22:50 Like, would it be fun to be in a big conference
22:53 and have that experience?
22:55 Sure, it would be.
22:56 It would completely change the fan experience
22:59 and completely change basketball for the program,
23:01 but I don't think it's sustainable.
23:04 - See, I've warmed up to the fact,
23:06 but I'm still not fully crossed that bridge,
23:08 that, like, let's go.
23:09 'Cause I think the WCC has been really good for the league.
23:12 I mean, if you're going to make two Final Fours,
23:14 two National Title appearances,
23:16 you're doing something right,
23:17 and the league is doing enough
23:19 to prepare you for those opportunities.
23:20 - And the league is continually getting better.
23:22 - Yeah, for this year.
23:23 And I hate saying that, 'cause this year it's bad.
23:25 - Well, and that probably has more to do with NIL
23:27 than anything else.
23:27 - True. - Good point.
23:28 - Because these are all small schools,
23:30 small alumni bases, with a couple of exceptions,
23:33 smaller markets.
23:34 I mean, sure, Malibu's got a lot of money, but--
23:37 - But they're not going to the games.
23:38 - There's not a ton to advertise for in Malibu.
23:40 - Yeah.
23:41 - You know, where's the cash come from?
23:43 So, NIL hurts the conferences as a whole,
23:46 even though it may help Gonzaga.
23:48 - Yeah, well, Oregon State, Washington State,
23:50 they just announced that affiliate deal.
23:52 - Yep.
23:53 - I don't think it, I think it hurts Gonzaga
23:56 more than it helps them, personally,
23:57 'cause I think it's now two more teams
23:59 and potentially four more games on your league schedule
24:02 where they're more talented than, say, Pacific or Portland.
24:06 And there's gonna be a, I mean,
24:09 Washington State could be bad one year,
24:10 but they're gonna play Gonzaga good.
24:12 Kyle Smith's doing a tremendous job in Pullman right now.
24:14 Their borderline NCAA tournament this year.
24:17 Wayne Tinkle and Oregon State,
24:19 they were in the Elite Eight like three years ago.
24:21 So, I mean, they had the athletes,
24:22 they just have struggled at times.
24:25 They put it together at the right time.
24:28 So, I mean, what's, I would love to hear your take
24:31 as well as Zach's, just 'cause we haven't chatted
24:33 on that WSU-OSU deal.
24:34 - Well, from a local standpoint,
24:37 I think it's cool that the Washington State,
24:39 you know, angle with Gonzaga.
24:41 You know, there's a lot of Wazoo fans that are,
24:44 Gonzaga basketball fans and Washington State
24:47 football fans, right? - Yeah.
24:48 - But they're waiting for another run
24:50 when Tony Bennett and those good teams
24:52 with Aaron Baines and whoever the,
24:54 what was the little Hawaiian point guard that was good?
24:56 - Derek Lowe. - Derek Lowe was fantastic.
24:58 And Kyle Weaver, you know, like,
25:00 and then Clay Thompson, you know,
25:01 they had legitimate, like, entertaining teams
25:04 and good basketball going on there.
25:05 So, they're thirsty for that and they never,
25:09 they don't get the chance to play Gonzaga
25:11 because it doesn't benefit us in the non-conference.
25:14 Now they'll get that.
25:15 So, that angle's cool, but other than that, I agree.
25:17 Like, it doesn't help us from an RPI or a Ken Palm
25:21 or a net ranking standpoint.
25:24 Is Kyle Smith a great coach?
25:25 Yes. Is he doing a great job?
25:26 Yes. But are they, is it a pure quad one right now?
25:30 No. Could it get there?
25:31 Yes. I haven't checked out Oregon State, but.
25:34 - Well, they're like 200 in Ken Palm last I checked.
25:37 So, they're not going to move the needle.
25:38 - So, it's interesting to see.
25:42 So, for me, like I said,
25:43 the only cool part about it is the local aspect is,
25:48 you know, two fan bases that are,
25:50 live in the same city in the same area,
25:51 get to kind of play each other again.
25:53 That's about it.
25:54 - Yeah.
25:55 - But we stopped playing down in Pullman years ago.
25:58 I think it was my group was the last one
26:00 and we won by two and they were like,
26:02 we're not coming back.
26:04 - Yeah.
26:04 - We're not coming back down here again.
26:06 - No, I agree. The human aspect's the only,
26:08 the fact that we've got two teams that are Northwest teams
26:12 or West Coast teams and we're in a bad spot
26:15 and everyone kind of came together
26:17 and figured out something that worked for everyone
26:18 from a basketball standpoint.
26:19 Now, it doesn't do anything for me,
26:21 but I like the fact that local fans of both teams
26:26 are gonna get to see those games
26:27 and it's going to be,
26:29 there's gonna be some community aspect about it.
26:30 - Yeah.
26:31 - Which I like.
26:32 - Yeah. Well, I think the WCC's one bad league this year.
26:34 I mean, unfortunately, I think Gonzaga,
26:37 they're still in the driver's seat.
26:40 I still think they're clearly the best team in the league.
26:42 I think San Francisco's really good.
26:44 What do you think they're gonna go in league?
26:47 We kick off league tomorrow.
26:48 We were recording this on Wednesday.
26:50 I mean, are you,
26:51 I'm not gonna go out on a limb and say 16 and 0.
26:54 Are you a 14 and 2?
26:55 Are you a 15 and 1?
26:56 I mean, what's your projection?
26:58 I'm a 14 and 2.
27:01 - Yeah. I think we could either run the table
27:04 or two losses wouldn't be a surprise.
27:06 So I know that's not a firm prediction, but I think-
27:10 - I'm not gonna hold your hand in the fire.
27:11 - Yeah. I think that's just what this club is.
27:14 And last year we lost a game to LMU.
27:17 So it's not like it's, you know,
27:20 guaranteed that we'll go undefeated every single year
27:22 and road games are always difficult.
27:24 And then we've talked about the lack of shooting.
27:26 So if you get on the road
27:27 and you can't make jump shots that snowball.
27:29 So I'm curious to see just how this club reacts
27:34 to trying to win a West Coast Conference Championship.
27:38 'Cause that's very important to Coach Feeley.
27:40 He always stresses it.
27:41 How much they're gonna put into that as a group
27:45 as for themselves, not just Coach Feeley and the staff
27:48 really harping on it.
27:49 So I don't know, man, to be honest.
27:52 And that's not like saying they can't do it,
27:53 but it's like, this is a up in the air year
27:56 for us in the league.
27:57 - Well, a 16 and 0 is incredibly hard.
28:00 I think that the 99 team that made that Elite Eight run,
28:02 they didn't even win the league that year, if I'm right.
28:05 Your redshirt year?
28:06 - Did we win the league that year?
28:07 - Well, they won the tournament.
28:08 - We won the tournament.
28:08 - Yeah.
28:09 - Yeah. I don't think they-
28:10 - I don't remember.
28:11 - 'Cause Pepperdine was really good at that time.
28:12 - Pepperdine was really good.
28:13 - Yeah. And Santa Clara was good at that time.
28:15 - Yeah.
28:16 - I mean, I think we were 14 and 2 my junior year,
28:20 your sophomore year.
28:21 - That sounds about right.
28:22 - And then I think we were 15 and 1 my senior year,
28:25 your junior year.
28:26 - Yeah.
28:27 - So, I mean, those are tremendous.
28:28 Anybody, like if you start,
28:31 hey, you're gonna go 15 and 1 league,
28:32 anybody would take it.
28:33 - Yeah. Well, I'll put a prediction down
28:35 'cause I don't have to come back and defend it.
28:36 (laughing)
28:38 I'm gonna say 14 and 2.
28:39 - All right.
28:41 - We're going to lose a game on the road that we should win
28:43 and we're gonna have one ugly loss at home.
28:45 - Really?
28:46 - Yeah.
28:47 - Yeah. That Loyal Merrimont one was ugly last year.
28:48 - Yeah.
28:49 - And simply for the fact that it was ugly
28:50 'cause I call the games on TV with Richard Fox
28:53 and Greg Heister, we had no idea what to say
28:56 'cause we had never called a loss on TV,
28:58 the three of us together.
28:59 - Right. Well, didn't we dump,
29:01 maybe it was year after year after year,
29:02 we dumped a home game to Portland.
29:04 - That was after I was gone, yeah.
29:06 - Yeah. And Portland was bottom of the league that year.
29:08 - Yeah.
29:09 - And they came, one of the last games of the season
29:10 and they mopped up with us.
29:12 - Yeah.
29:14 - It does, especially those rivalry games
29:17 where the other team takes it more serious
29:19 as a rivalry game than you would.
29:22 You know, the world of recruiting is crazy.
29:26 Gonzaga just lost out on a commitment
29:28 to one of their primary targets, Zoom Diallo.
29:31 I would imagine NIL had something to do with it.
29:35 I would imagine the fact that he's on the West side
29:37 has something to do with it.
29:39 Curious what the recruiting pitch was for you.
29:44 I know yours was, hey, you're at home, right?
29:47 Essentially.
29:48 'Cause you came to Gonzaga with a lot of options,
29:51 but you came thinking you were gonna red shirt.
29:54 - Yep.
29:55 - What was the recruiting pitch for you?
29:57 - There was a solid plan and there was a,
30:01 they presented to me an offense
30:03 that I knew I could succeed in.
30:05 And they presented to me, honestly, like it was easy.
30:09 How many guys on the team did I know already?
30:11 I'd played with Spink in high school.
30:12 I'd played with Calvary in high school.
30:14 Richie and I grew up 10 miles away from each other.
30:17 Like it was kind of like being at home.
30:19 So I don't think they really had to pitch me that hard.
30:22 You know, I was, I had it narrowed down to schools
30:25 that I wanted to go to.
30:26 And I put them all in a pool of the schools
30:29 I knew I wanted to go to.
30:30 And it was like, where do I want to play basketball?
30:32 And ultimately Gonzaga was where I wanted to play basketball.
30:35 Energy was good here.
30:36 Like you could sense, no, that's not true.
30:39 They did pitch me.
30:40 They pitched me on sense of community.
30:41 They set, they pitched me on the team cohesiveness,
30:45 the fact that the guys did things
30:47 on and off the court together,
30:49 the sense that it was family.
30:51 - Yeah.
30:52 - And that's how they sold me.
30:54 - And that's very similar to yours.
30:57 Obviously family was being home too for you.
30:59 They could see everything.
31:00 - Yeah.
31:01 I wasn't going anywhere else.
31:03 (laughing)
31:05 - So mention the Zoom Diallo going to U-Dub.
31:08 You left or after your redshirt year,
31:12 they make that elite eight run, Dan Monson leaves.
31:16 Coach Few took over.
31:17 But if a coach gets fired, leaves,
31:22 what's that dynamic like, do you think, both of you guys?
31:25 - So my situation is even probably a step farther
31:30 'cause I was recruited by Monson
31:32 when he was an assistant to Fitz.
31:33 So Monson was my guy.
31:36 - So you committed to Fitz, essentially.
31:38 - I committed to, it had already been announced
31:40 that Fitz was retiring and on his way out.
31:42 But Monson was first assistant when he was recruiting me.
31:46 So he was my guy.
31:47 And you probably both had this experience.
31:49 Like the guy who brings you in
31:50 is kind of who shepherds you through all the stuff.
31:53 - Yeah.
31:54 - You know, so after my redshirt year, I lost my guy
31:56 'cause he became head coach and then went to Minnesota.
31:58 - Yeah.
31:59 - So I was kind of rudderless for a little while.
32:02 You know, Billy Greer tried to step up
32:03 and ultimately Jerry Krause was probably
32:06 who I connected with the most.
32:07 - Okay.
32:09 - Even though we don't think we got along really well
32:11 when we first met.
32:12 (laughing)
32:13 I think he saw the hair and the earrings
32:15 and all the other stuff and was like,
32:16 "Eh, I don't know about this kid."
32:18 But, so it was hard.
32:20 Like it was hard because you kind of think
32:23 you see the trajectory and then it just disappears.
32:25 - Yeah.
32:26 Who was your guy recruiting you?
32:27 Was it Leon?
32:28 - It was Leon and Tommy.
32:29 - Okay, well yeah, Tommy was student assistant
32:31 when you were at Meade, right?
32:33 - Yeah, Tommy was a substitute at Meade
32:38 and then obviously took the job the next,
32:40 I think I was a junior and then took the job
32:44 my senior year and then so I knew him
32:46 from just being a teacher at Meade High School.
32:49 - Yeah.
32:49 - Which was fun.
32:50 - That had to have been interesting.
32:51 - It was interesting.
32:52 - Tommy Lloyd, substitute teacher,
32:54 now he's head coach at Arizona.
32:55 - Substitute math teacher.
32:56 He used to run our open gyms and play with us
32:58 and he would kill all of us.
32:59 - Yeah.
33:00 - Yeah, my retiree, he was a volunteer assistant.
33:03 We played one-on-one endless days.
33:05 He could shoot it.
33:06 - He could score.
33:06 - Tommy could play.
33:07 - He was good.
33:08 I think he had a 40 point game when he played in college
33:09 or a 50 point game or something like that.
33:11 He always told us that.
33:12 - He always scored 50.
33:13 - Did you ever go up and watch him play in high school
33:14 when he was in high school?
33:15 - I did.
33:16 - Yeah, I did too.
33:16 - 'Cause he grew up 30 minutes north of where we were from.
33:17 - Yeah, I remember from.
33:18 - Yeah.
33:19 - Tommy was fun.
33:20 Tommy could score.
33:21 Tommy wasn't a shooter.
33:21 Tommy could just score.
33:22 - Yeah, he could get buckets, that's for sure.
33:24 But you mentioned your coach leaving.
33:26 That was a big thing for me at U-Dub.
33:28 The coach that recruited me left,
33:31 Coach Giacoletti left.
33:32 - Yep.
33:33 - And oddly, years later, he's on staff at Gonzaga.
33:35 So, well let's talk a little bit about
33:39 your experiences at Gonzaga.
33:44 You were that 99 team.
33:46 You're a redshirt.
33:47 So you're going through every day kind of as your own game
33:50 because you can't play in the actual games.
33:52 - Yep.
33:53 - Did you see a buildup throughout that season?
33:55 Like, "Hey, these guys are pretty good."
33:58 What was that ascension like?
34:01 - There definitely was that,
34:02 but there's also that I'm a freshman.
34:04 I don't know what good looks like.
34:05 Like I hadn't seen enough college basketball
34:08 up close and personal to know that,
34:10 "Hey, we're really good."
34:11 - Yeah.
34:12 - But when we started playing some big games early on,
34:15 'cause we had some pretty tough non-conference games
34:19 that season.
34:20 And we showed up and played pretty well.
34:23 And I was lucky that Mike Leisure
34:27 had some injury issues that season.
34:29 So they needed a 10th to travel to practice on the road.
34:32 So I got to travel the entire season as a redshirt
34:34 because they needed a 10th body.
34:36 And I was the only freshman who had grades
34:39 good enough to let travel.
34:40 (laughing)
34:41 - I haven't heard the name Mike Leisure in a while.
34:43 - I know.
34:44 Yeah, so Mike was hurt.
34:45 He had some issues and really couldn't practice much.
34:49 - Yeah.
34:50 - So he traveled and watched pretty much every second
34:53 of that season.
34:54 And it was a progression.
34:56 And you could just see the confidence build.
34:58 And that was a very physically tough team.
35:01 - Yeah.
35:02 - Like those guys banged and they did not take any abuse
35:06 from anybody else.
35:07 They were gonna dish it right back out.
35:09 Even guys you don't think of as being super physical,
35:11 like Axel Dentsch.
35:13 Axel will hit you.
35:14 - Yeah.
35:15 - If he thinks he needs to,
35:17 he'll drop that shoulder and get you.
35:19 It was a very tough team.
35:21 - It was a tough team.
35:25 At U-Dub, I played against that team and we lost.
35:28 But we talked physicality.
35:31 Mike Nelson might be the best defender
35:35 I've ever played against at any level.
35:37 Did you play against him at his peak defensively?
35:40 - Not his peak.
35:41 He used to play like pick up with us.
35:43 - Yeah.
35:44 Who would have been the best defender you ever had to face?
35:46 - Like ever, of all time, we're on our test.
35:49 - Oh, yeah.
35:51 - Okay, maybe better than Mike Nelson.
35:54 Not gonna say it, but maybe.
35:55 - Is there a rivalry or a matchup
35:57 that gave you fits in the league?
35:59 - Those early matchups in those first couple of years
36:06 against Pepperdine, those guys were tough and athletic.
36:11 And there were a lot of them.
36:13 It wasn't necessarily the fact that there was one guy.
36:15 It's the fact that you could wear one out
36:17 and there was another one that looked the same height,
36:20 same size coming in right behind it
36:21 and was just gonna keep doing the exact same thing to you.
36:23 'Cause they were deep and they subbed a lot.
36:26 They played a lot of guys
36:27 and you were always playing against somebody fresh.
36:29 So that was always just exhausting.
36:33 I knew all the guys at Santa Clara.
36:36 So there was always just the personal rivalry,
36:37 not so much the basketball rivalry.
36:39 I just need to beat you
36:40 because I wanna go have a beer later
36:42 and I don't wanna lose.
36:44 - Go have a beer later.
36:46 I do remember that you always made friends
36:48 with the opposing bigs.
36:49 And a lot of times on the road,
36:50 you would go meet them after the game somewhere.
36:52 - Yeah, big men have a different thing than guards do.
36:54 Like, 'cause we hit each other a lot, I think.
36:57 And it's just a different--
36:58 - Mutual respect.
36:59 - Yeah.
37:00 It's just a different,
37:01 there's a different relationship there.
37:02 - I remember that my,
37:04 obviously you were gone,
37:05 but my freshman year,
37:06 we beat Santa Clara third place
37:08 and then like Blake and all those guys,
37:10 like, "Hey, we're going to a party."
37:10 We went and partied with their team,
37:12 like massive frat parties.
37:14 - Yeah, it was awesome.
37:15 And they were cool and, you know,
37:17 I'm 18, 19 getting drunk with all these older guys.
37:19 So that was awesome.
37:20 - We've been doing that at Santa Clara for years.
37:21 - Yeah, exactly.
37:22 Like, they hosted a great party for us
37:24 and like, we played them.
37:25 They were good and we played hard
37:26 and there was no trash talking,
37:28 but we'd like,
37:29 it was an absolute rager afterwards.
37:31 It was fun.
37:32 It was a good time.
37:32 - That's awesome.
37:33 - Yeah, that party always used to be at my house
37:35 in Spokane, so.
37:36 - What was the address?
37:37 I remember that house.
37:38 - 812 East Nora.
37:39 - Okay, okay.
37:41 So you, as a big man,
37:43 you had coach Billy Greer as your post coach.
37:47 - Yeah.
37:47 - Never played a post a second in his life.
37:51 - Billy's maybe 5'10".
37:52 - How did that go over when he's talking about footwork
37:55 and ducking in and creating angles and ceiling?
37:58 - You know, I had to turn around
38:01 and study the wall a lot to keep from laughing.
38:03 But I mean, the man knew what he was talking about.
38:06 It was just kind of hard to always take him super seriously
38:09 'cause he got,
38:10 he was real intense about demonstration
38:12 and he'd get real low.
38:14 And I'm like, one, you're demoing on me
38:16 and you're getting real low
38:18 and you're hitting me in the middle of the knee.
38:19 So that's not gonna work.
38:20 But, no, it was funny.
38:23 But I mean, Billy was a really good post coach
38:27 'cause he understood angles and he taught the angles.
38:30 And I don't think it resonated with every player
38:35 but the way he coached already fit in
38:38 with how I played the game.
38:39 So how he, it worked.
38:41 - Yeah.
38:43 You got a couple?
38:44 - Who was my individual coach?
38:47 - Either that or questions.
38:48 - Well, he's exactly right.
38:49 Like Leon was the biggest coach
38:51 and then Billy was the guards coach.
38:54 And it was always,
38:55 and they're obviously know how to coach.
38:57 It doesn't mean if your height
38:59 or if you didn't play, you don't know about the game.
39:01 It's sometimes you just be like, dude, you didn't play.
39:03 Shut up.
39:04 - Yeah.
39:05 - It's one of those deals.
39:05 So good times.
39:07 - No one's gonna hit you in the head with an elbow.
39:08 So let's, don't talk to me
39:10 about how I should lean in.
39:11 - Yes.
39:12 - But it was funny.
39:13 Me and Billy used to get in there.
39:14 He was the defensive coach
39:15 and I didn't listen a lot on those deals.
39:19 - I had plenty of times where I'd get done shooting
39:22 at the old Martin Center.
39:24 And then, you had those windows up top
39:27 and he'd knock on it.
39:28 Hey, come here.
39:29 I need to talk to you.
39:30 So I'd go up to the office.
39:32 You know, you gotta play defense.
39:34 You know, and he'd have video film ready to go
39:37 and show us like, yeah, I know.
39:40 - It was always his deal.
39:41 His stickler.
39:42 - Let's just get to our two, three zone
39:44 that you guys are gonna run and we'll be fine.
39:46 - We ran plenty of two, three zone, that's for sure.
39:48 So.
39:49 - Had to back then.
39:50 - Yeah, we didn't have the size or the length.
39:52 The athleticism one through five.
39:54 - Yeah, we were smaller.
39:55 - A lot of these teams now.
39:56 - We were undersized.
39:57 - We had to save guys, foul trouble.
39:58 - Yeah.
39:59 - We just weren't as deep.
40:00 - Yeah.
40:01 - It's just different.
40:02 - Is there a game or an experience that stands out for you
40:05 that solidified the fact that you made the right decision
40:08 to go to Gonzaga?
40:09 It's probably a totality question.
40:11 - It is, but there is, I have a couple of distinct memories
40:15 and one is, I think it's my freshman year.
40:19 We're playing at UCLA and John Wooden's sitting
40:24 in the bench and who's the guy with the slicked back hair?
40:29 - Steve Lavin.
40:30 - Steve Lavin, he's coaching and the guys guarding me
40:32 is 6'11", athletic, bouncy, ended up in the league
40:37 for a couple of years and I just keep throwing in
40:40 right-handed jump hooks over him.
40:42 Probably one of my best games as a freshman
40:45 and I'm just listening to Lavin yell at him
40:47 as I'm running up and down the floor
40:48 that I can only go right, I can only go right
40:51 and the next time I go right again, do the exact same thing.
40:54 Same thing, next time, left-handed jump hook.
40:57 - Nice.
40:58 - And Lavin just throws his hands up in the air
41:00 as I'm running down the floor and I'm like,
41:01 hey, you know, I'm pretty good and that's fine.
41:05 We should keep doing this.
41:06 - Yeah.
41:07 - Steve Lavin, one time my freshman year,
41:09 he was doing TV at the time.
41:13 So he just got done with UCLA and remember they had those
41:15 allegations or whatever, paying guys
41:19 and we were doing half quarters when we were playing,
41:21 before we played St. Joe's, hit a half quarter
41:24 and I'm like, yeah, he goes, what do you get?
41:26 I'm like, what do you mean?
41:26 Well, he goes, when I coached,
41:28 you got 500 bucks for making a half quarter.
41:30 (laughing)
41:31 - Yes.
41:32 Yeah, we would get a hat post game.
41:34 - Yep. - Yes.
41:36 So yeah, it was funny.
41:37 It was right on brand, but Steve's a nice guy.
41:40 - That's awesome.
41:41 He's doing a heck of a job this year at USD.
41:43 They've kind of, you know,
41:45 put together a nice non-conference.
41:47 Gonzaga opens the season, let's see,
41:50 it's at home against Pepperdine at the arena
41:52 and then at McCarthy against USD.
41:54 So he'll be there game two.
41:55 So Zach, appreciate you joining today.
41:58 You know, if there's anything that I can say
42:02 to anybody listening to Gonzaga,
42:04 is you've been one of the best teammates I've ever had
42:06 from high school to college.
42:08 It was a joy playing with you.
42:10 And it was great to have you joining Adam and I
42:12 here for a short bit today.
42:13 - Well, Dan, I enjoyed both being here
42:15 and I enjoyed the, what, eight years we played together?
42:17 - Yeah, it was a long time. - We had a lot of fun.
42:19 - How many screens did you set for this guy?
42:21 - Oh, a lot more than he ever set for me.
42:24 (laughing)
42:25 - That is true.
42:26 That was, you know, that was one of the things about,
42:28 you know, people will ask this
42:30 and you probably get asked,
42:31 hey, who's your favorite teammate
42:32 or who did you gel with the best on the court?
42:34 And I've always said there were two guys
42:36 that I had the best connection pick and roll with,
42:40 Zach Gord and PJ Brown.
42:41 - Yeah.
42:42 - So--
42:43 - Pretty good companies for all things Gonzaga.
42:44 - Yeah, PJ played 12, 13 years in the NBA,
42:47 but, you know, it was something where
42:49 you and I kind of had an angle.
42:51 You know, we'd make eye contact,
42:52 you'd switch the, flip the angle of the screen.
42:55 You could catch everything.
42:56 You were willing to screen.
42:58 I set a couple screens for him.
43:00 I mean, the back screen lobs.
43:02 - You always put the ball where my job was easy.
43:04 - Yeah.
43:05 - Which I didn't realize,
43:06 'cause you and I played together for so many years.
43:07 I didn't realize that until I started playing
43:09 with other guys that,
43:11 Dan always puts the ball right where I really wanna go.
43:14 - Yeah.
43:15 - And then I had to figure out
43:16 the other guys weren't always gonna do that.
43:17 - Yeah.
43:18 Well, again, it was great having you.
43:20 Always good to connect again for a little bit.
43:23 So for Mo and myself,
43:25 this has been episode 12 on Talking Zags
43:29 with special guest, Zach Gord.
43:31 (upbeat music)
43:33 (upbeat music)