Unlocker Room: Cristian Brocchi

A.C. MILAN OFFICIAL

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Transcript

00:00:00At a certain point, one of us, with a slightly stronger tone,

00:00:05said to him,

00:00:06Ronny, now you're broken.

00:00:07Come on, wake up, give us a hand, at least do a run, something.

00:00:11He says, now I score a goal.

00:00:14Then, after that, we don't talk anymore.

00:00:16One time we stole Gattuso's phone

00:00:19and we started sending messages to everyone.

00:00:22To journalists, to Braila, to managers, to people.

00:00:27We sent them a message.

00:00:30I'm not going to play football anymore.

00:00:32I'm not playing football anymore.

00:00:34I'm not playing football anymore.

00:00:36New episode of Unlocking Room

00:00:38with Mr Brocki, Cristian Brocki.

00:00:40What's the name of a coach

00:00:42who doesn't train at the moment?

00:00:44Is his name Mr? Do they call you by name?

00:00:46Some yes, some no.

00:00:48But it's not a problem.

00:00:50The important thing is what they think of you.

00:00:52What do they think of you?

00:00:54How does a coach who is not training live?

00:00:56Does he completely detach himself from the world?

00:00:58How many games do you watch in a week?

00:01:00As soon as I finished the last experience,

00:01:02I detached myself a bit.

00:01:04I needed to clean up

00:01:06because the role of a coach

00:01:08is a very stressful one.

00:01:10On the outside, you understand,

00:01:12but you understand relatively.

00:01:14It's normal that now,

00:01:16not training,

00:01:18by choice,

00:01:20because I had some opportunities,

00:01:22but it wasn't the right one,

00:01:24it wasn't the one I liked,

00:01:26it wasn't the one that gave me

00:01:28the right emotion

00:01:30or the fire you need

00:01:32to do such a beautiful,

00:01:34but stressful job.

00:01:36And now, yes, I watch.

00:01:38I like watching games,

00:01:40I like getting to know the players,

00:01:42because in the end,

00:01:44the most important thing

00:01:46is getting to know the players

00:01:48in various categories,

00:01:50nationalities and leagues.

00:01:52So, having a general knowledge

00:01:54because we like to call you that

00:01:56because you're an exquisite person.

00:01:58I wanted to ask you,

00:02:00looking now,

00:02:02in this historical period,

00:02:04without going into detail,

00:02:06there's always this thing

00:02:08about players, results.

00:02:10How do you see it?

00:02:12For me, first of all,

00:02:14an aspect is fundamental.

00:02:16Everyone plays to win.

00:02:18So, it's not just about

00:02:20saying the player

00:02:22is a resultist.

00:02:24It's normal that

00:02:26each of us has

00:02:28a thought and a desire

00:02:30to get to the result,

00:02:32and the result must be the victory.

00:02:34Everyone has their own mentality,

00:02:36everyone has their own belief.

00:02:38Personally, I'm one of those

00:02:40who wants to get to the victory

00:02:42through a game

00:02:44and not through

00:02:46only and exclusively

00:02:48a defensive phase.

00:02:50In football,

00:02:52it's a spectacle

00:02:54and I like to see teams

00:02:56that play with their faces open,

00:02:58I like to see teams that

00:03:00control the game,

00:03:02I like to see teams

00:03:04that have a mentality

00:03:06that in Italy

00:03:08we call European mentality

00:03:10and I can't really understand

00:03:12why, because now

00:03:14we're seeing that the new generation

00:03:16of coaches have the desire

00:03:18to do something different.

00:03:20It's normal that

00:03:22this comparison comes

00:03:24mostly from those

00:03:26who speak from the outside,

00:03:28from those who express

00:03:30their own opinion.

00:03:32It's right that those who

00:03:34look from the outside

00:03:36can express an idea.

00:03:38I don't accept offences.

00:03:40Offences from those

00:03:42who comment on your work,

00:03:44I think there's a limit to everything.

00:03:46If you want to do a good job,

00:03:48offence is something different,

00:03:50exasperation is something different.

00:03:52Let's get back to this

00:03:54to start rewinding

00:03:56your career.

00:03:58What was your relationship

00:04:00with the media?

00:04:02Your football was

00:04:04between two great

00:04:06eras.

00:04:08The start of social media,

00:04:10the first TV shows

00:04:12that decide the game,

00:04:14what was your relationship

00:04:16with interviews, with journalists,

00:04:18with critics?

00:04:20I've always had

00:04:22a lot of respect.

00:04:24I've always said

00:04:26that if in my career

00:04:28I had made some

00:04:30journalist friends, it would have been better.

00:04:32It's useless to hide.

00:04:34Many players

00:04:36have used and still use

00:04:38in their careers

00:04:40a different way,

00:04:42a journalist friend.

00:04:46But I've always had the idea

00:04:48that I preferred to open

00:04:50a newspaper and find an article

00:04:52about me, in a positive way,

00:04:54because I conquered it on the pitch,

00:04:56rather than opening a newspaper

00:04:58and finding an article about me,

00:05:00about a journalist friend

00:05:02whose goal

00:05:04was to do it for me.

00:05:06Why? Because I thought more about myself,

00:05:08about my personal gratification,

00:05:10than about showing

00:05:12a different side of me.

00:05:14The timings of the games

00:05:16have changed

00:05:18at a certain point in our career,

00:05:20but

00:05:22this has never

00:05:24disturbed me,

00:05:26honestly.

00:05:28Most players prefer to play in the evening

00:05:30rather than in the middle of the day.

00:05:32This is out of the question,

00:05:34but also for a biological reason,

00:05:36a habit, a series of things,

00:05:38even if we often train in the morning.

00:05:40But, I don't know,

00:05:42the atmosphere in the evening

00:05:44always has a particular charm.

00:05:46And I've touched up

00:05:48on social media.

00:05:50I've touched them up

00:05:52and I tell you, from a certain point of view,

00:05:54fortunately,

00:05:56from another point of view,

00:05:58you also need to know how to live with it.

00:06:00I've taken them fully as a coach

00:06:02and maybe it was better to get used to it

00:06:04before as a player, so as a coach

00:06:06I would have accused

00:06:08something less,

00:06:10because before, when social media

00:06:12didn't exist, even journalists,

00:06:14in my opinion,

00:06:16were raised

00:06:18in different analyses,

00:06:20because what they saw

00:06:22they thought positive or negative.

00:06:24Instead, now, in my opinion,

00:06:26even

00:06:28a part of articles,

00:06:30of websites,

00:06:32of newspapers,

00:06:34can be conditioned

00:06:36more by the negative things

00:06:38than by the positive ones.

00:06:40I always say that out of 10 messages

00:06:42you receive on social media,

00:06:44if you receive 6 positive ones,

00:06:462 neutral ones

00:06:48and 2 negative ones that are really strong,

00:06:50most people

00:06:52take the negative ones,

00:06:54because they seem to make more news.

00:06:56Tristian, I wanted to ask you,

00:06:58when you played

00:07:00and played thick matches,

00:07:02maybe you were also smart

00:07:04tactically, football-wise,

00:07:06maybe you didn't steal the eye so much,

00:07:08in the sense that the journalist,

00:07:10now we don't want to write

00:07:12our area,

00:07:14but maybe you didn't show up

00:07:16and didn't make you grow

00:07:18as much as the negative vote

00:07:20when you say, damn it,

00:07:22I ran 12.5 km,

00:07:24I recovered 75 balls

00:07:26and I took 5.5.

00:07:28Look, between me and Fabio,

00:07:30I don't remember the name,

00:07:32there was a player,

00:07:34we were laughing,

00:07:36we were looking at the votes

00:07:38and we said, damn,

00:07:40today he took 6,

00:07:42do you know that Fanta Calcio

00:07:44publishes the votes already

00:07:46on the same day?

00:07:48His answer was,

00:07:50he stole 14 balls.

00:07:52In my opinion,

00:07:54it's a situation where

00:07:56you probably found yourself too,

00:07:58the influencers of football,

00:08:00maybe especially today,

00:08:02when we look at the highlights of the games,

00:08:04they see 6 balls, 5.5 balls,

00:08:06and maybe they also influence a bit,

00:08:08I don't say in the dressing room

00:08:10because you were champions,

00:08:12smart people, but outside,

00:08:14they say, Brocchi always takes 6,

00:08:16no, damn, I ran like crazy,

00:08:18I deserved at least 7.

00:08:20Look, in my time,

00:08:22the votes were also conditioned

00:08:24by the result of the game,

00:08:26if you lost,

00:08:28the votes were almost

00:08:30always negative,

00:08:32because they were conditioned

00:08:34a lot by that.

00:08:36Personally, yes,

00:08:38sometimes if I noticed

00:08:40that a journalist

00:08:42had something

00:08:44personal with me,

00:08:46then yes, it bothered me a lot.

00:08:48Then maybe I would take

00:08:50that journalist and say,

00:08:52sorry, but why?

00:08:54Why 6?

00:08:56Maybe also for the comment,

00:08:58I remember there was one

00:09:00that I did

00:09:02in a particular year,

00:09:04even when I was,

00:09:06I don't say the best on the pitch,

00:09:08but one of the best on the pitch,

00:09:10the maximum vote he gave me was 6

00:09:12and the comment was never nice.

00:09:14At a certain point,

00:09:16I had taken it,

00:09:18but he had also answered

00:09:20in a somewhat presumptuous way,

00:09:22he changed the word in my life,

00:09:24then at a certain point

00:09:26I also became a team manager.

00:09:28At the end, this team,

00:09:30one day I scored a goal,

00:09:32he passed me by,

00:09:34I greeted him,

00:09:36I said good evening

00:09:38and I left,

00:09:40because I wanted to take

00:09:42some revenge from you too.

00:09:44But the thing that bothered me

00:09:46most of all,

00:09:48but accompanied my career a bit,

00:09:50apart from those fans

00:09:52who have lived our years,

00:09:54who have also seen that

00:09:56even though I wasn't a starter

00:09:58in Amovile del Milano,

00:10:00because I had three sacred monsters

00:10:02in front of me, Pirlo, Gattuso, Seedorf,

00:10:04I took up an important space,

00:10:06I played important matches,

00:10:08semi-finals of the Champions League,

00:10:10quarter-finals of the Champions League,

00:10:12important matches,

00:10:14that if you weren't at the top

00:10:16of the situation,

00:10:18you couldn't win the match.

00:10:20And it was that thing

00:10:22that led me to leave Milan

00:10:24at the end,

00:10:26to say I want to leave Milan

00:10:28because I want to win a cup

00:10:30with a different jersey.

00:10:32Because it seemed that

00:10:34players who were a bit more

00:10:36publicized at times,

00:10:38or had a name that was

00:10:40also a bit more important

00:10:42in the media,

00:10:44had won the Champions League

00:10:46and had played twice as much

00:10:48as someone else.

00:10:50Ema Brocchi is not a starter,

00:10:52Ema Brocchi is not a player.

00:10:54This was the thing that

00:10:56in my career sometimes

00:10:58bothered me a bit more.

00:11:00In fact, I had decided to go

00:11:02to Lazio for this reason,

00:11:04and then I won three more cups in Lazio.

00:11:06Luca, we would like to go back

00:11:08to your story,

00:11:10but we also want to follow

00:11:12your assists.

00:11:14You went to the Pignettina

00:11:16and you saw that your jersey was gone.

00:11:18I read it.

00:11:20Yes, yes, but that was an episode...

00:11:22Look, I'll tell you the truth,

00:11:24I'm a person who shows respect.

00:11:26Even if logically

00:11:28there's a derby in the middle,

00:11:30there's something that

00:11:32Milan, Inter, the fans,

00:11:34we know.

00:11:36So let's remove this aspect.

00:11:38But I did an interview

00:11:40where

00:11:42my word,

00:11:44which is the word I hate,

00:11:46was used again,

00:11:48Brocchi hates Inter,

00:11:50because I had said that

00:11:52I hated a person who had

00:11:54done something at that moment

00:11:56and so the title was Brocchi hates Inter.

00:11:58Since then, for my entire career,

00:12:00every time I played against Inter,

00:12:02you run, you whistle.

00:12:04At a certain point I said,

00:12:06what importance do they give me?

00:12:08Because it's not always said

00:12:10that there's a whole stadium

00:12:12that comes against you, that insults you.

00:12:14It's not said that

00:12:16if you're an opponent

00:12:18this thing destabilises you,

00:12:20or scares you. Sometimes it even exalts you.

00:12:22We have an example.

00:12:24Now he works here,

00:12:26he repeats it several times.

00:12:28The mantra of Ibra probably

00:12:30is just this.

00:12:32The problem is when your fans

00:12:34insult you, then you do feel bad.

00:12:36But when it's the opposing fans,

00:12:38I felt very bad,

00:12:40because in the end

00:12:42Inter was the team that

00:12:44invested on me the year before,

00:12:46buying me from Verona and spending

00:12:48big amounts of money.

00:12:50I arrive that morning and

00:12:52I find myself in that situation

00:12:54and it's normal to react.

00:12:56It could have been Inter,

00:12:58it could have been any other team.

00:13:00It was not Inter, it was the gesture

00:13:02of that person that bothered me.

00:13:04And this is something to bear in mind.

00:13:06a positive comes out of it.

00:13:08Thanks to that episode, I went back home to my family.

00:13:13I was the captain of various teams

00:13:17throughout my career from the age of 9 to 19 in Milan.

00:13:22So, when I came back to Milan,

00:13:26I still remember, with a summer outfit,

00:13:32I didn't even know where I was,

00:13:34because it was a quick thing,

00:13:36I went to Milan and I felt like I was back home.

00:13:39I felt like a kid again,

00:13:42like when I took the bus from Piazza dell'Otto

00:13:45to go and train in Milan.

00:13:47A series of things that were amazing.

00:13:50And the fact that I scored in the first game in Milan,

00:13:55even though I'm not a bomber,

00:13:56was the culmination of a dream of a kid

00:13:58who started in Buccinasco,

00:14:01made an important career,

00:14:04and scored with the shirt he grew up in.

00:14:05We'll talk about that later.

00:14:07I'm going to digress.

00:14:08This morning, we watched the highlights of Brescia-Milan.

00:14:13It's incredible, in my opinion.

00:14:14Apart from the fact that Milan also gives us emotions,

00:14:17even when you come back today,

00:14:19it really feels like a paradise on earth.

00:14:22It's a magical place.

00:14:24You understand why it unites history.

00:14:27It's a modern place,

00:14:28but you see that it still has photos from certain times,

00:14:31certain rooms that haven't been touched.

00:14:33It's a mix of all that has happened.

00:14:36Do you know what we used to say in those years

00:14:38when we were in Milan?

00:14:39Before 2003, we used to look at the photos

00:14:43and say, look, we'll put some of our photos there.

00:14:45So that's a stimulus for the kids who are there now.

00:14:48Seeing the photos of the years when you won,

00:14:52of the cups you won,

00:14:54it's a stimulus, because at least for us personally,

00:14:56it stimulated us.

00:14:58And when we started to see some of our photos

00:15:00attached to Milanello,

00:15:02we started to realise

00:15:03that we'd done something important for an impressive club.

00:15:07You said it yourself,

00:15:09every player is born with a sense of sympathy,

00:15:11but Milan was your family,

00:15:13because you spent over ten years in the youth sector.

00:15:17What did the youth sector leave you with in Milan?

00:15:20How did you get there?

00:15:22And then you went to play in Milan.

00:15:25Milan is a respectable city,

00:15:26it's a very sporty derby,

00:15:29but when you wear this label of a man who grew up in Milan,

00:15:33how do you switch as a professional?

00:15:35Because it's clear that you play for Inter

00:15:37and you're totally at Inter's disposal.

00:15:40I was brought there to make a mistake,

00:15:43in the sense of youth and everything.

00:15:45I come from a family, I've always said it,

00:15:47an Interist family.

00:15:49But at nine, I arrived in Milan

00:15:52and I started to see an incredible Milan.

00:15:54I had the ticket to go and see Inter and Milan,

00:15:57and I went to see Milan.

00:15:58What year was it exactly?

00:16:00I'm from 1976, so it was in 1986.

00:16:04So it was the year of Silvio Berlusconi.

00:16:071985-1986, exactly, in those years.

00:16:10So I always go to see Milan.

00:16:12In the year of Inter's scudetto, the one against Trapattoni,

00:16:15my dad worked abroad, my parents were separated.

00:16:18When my dad came back to Milan,

00:16:20logically, where he brought his son,

00:16:22we went to see, he took me to see Inter,

00:16:24but I liked football, I played and everything,

00:16:26so I went to see Milan.

00:16:27But when my dad came back, we had already seen that year.

00:16:31So when I arrived at Inter,

00:16:33a manager told me,

00:16:35please, you've been at Milan for ten years,

00:16:37tell me this.

00:16:38So I told him, I'm from an Interist family,

00:16:40I saw the last scudetto against Trapattoni,

00:16:42so Interist, Interist, Interist...

00:16:45Those mistakes are madonnazzi,

00:16:48because you should never talk to the lads,

00:16:50you should never ask them which team they are,

00:16:53because then there are dynamics

00:16:56from which you are too young to manage,

00:16:59or maybe one word is too much, one word is too little.

00:17:03But I must say, I was very happy,

00:17:08because from a certain point of view,

00:17:11the happiness that a great team like Inter

00:17:13had spent so much money on me,

00:17:15was something special.

00:17:17And objectively, Milan didn't do that that year.

00:17:21So I have a lot of respect for those who had their eyes on me,

00:17:25but the emotion I had on my return to Milan

00:17:28is indescribable,

00:17:29because when you're 14 and you go to Milan for the first time,

00:17:33you go in there and you're moved,

00:17:35you've spent four or five years there,

00:17:37the first training sessions with the first team,

00:17:39when they call you, you have to train with the first team,

00:17:42the emotion of the night before,

00:17:44the first training session I had with the first Milan team,

00:17:49where we had five or six guys from Primavera,

00:17:52I was in the small rooms, she was in the back,

00:17:55and now I'm back there with you.

00:17:57It's something really beautiful and wonderful.

00:18:00Cristian, who called you to say,

00:18:03Milan wants you, I've been talking to you since you were a kid?

00:18:07Look, since I was a kid it was strange,

00:18:10because an observer from Milan,

00:18:12but I don't know who,

00:18:14that day, in that game,

00:18:16came to see the opposing team.

00:18:18What game was it?

00:18:19It was Buccinasco against, I don't even remember the other team's name,

00:18:23I was eight years old.

00:18:26And...

00:18:27Instead of taking the guys from the team I was going to see,

00:18:31they called me to do the training session for my team's number three.

00:18:36At the time, the training sessions were in line.

00:18:39If you went in line, they would take a lot of players,

00:18:42they would play 11 against 11,

00:18:45there were observers on the bench watching,

00:18:47and then the best players would select them

00:18:50and call you for the second training session,

00:18:53to play another game.

00:18:54So, that's how it started.

00:18:56My first fans were definitely Zagatti,

00:19:02the legendary Faustino Braga,

00:19:05people who knew about football,

00:19:08they understood.

00:19:11And from then on, I was lucky

00:19:15to have good coaches,

00:19:18they took me right away.

00:19:19They took all three of us.

00:19:22Then we had our first year,

00:19:23and at the end of the first year,

00:19:25my other two teammates hadn't confirmed them,

00:19:27so I was left out.

00:19:31But Dad had told you, who had told you,

00:19:33that he wanted you in Milan?

00:19:34No, the company, Buccinasco,

00:19:36because they called Buccinasco to send me to the training sessions.

00:19:38Then, once the training sessions were over,

00:19:41they would talk to the company and to my parents.

00:19:45I was lucky enough to go to Milan,

00:19:47I'll tell you the truth, because my grandfather retired that year,

00:19:51and he had to make a choice,

00:19:53to keep working to pay for the house,

00:19:57we didn't live on the money.

00:19:59Or, since they took us in three,

00:20:02Milan would give you the refund.

00:20:04So, in agreement with my parents and the other two teammates,

00:20:07the refund for all three of us...

00:20:08To the driver.

00:20:09...went to my grandfather, who was basically the driver,

00:20:12to take us.

00:20:13Then, after the first year went so well,

00:20:15the other two teammates weren't there anymore,

00:20:17my grandfather cut their salary by two thirds,

00:20:21but he kept doing it,

00:20:22and until I was 14, when I couldn't go on my own,

00:20:25because even when I was born,

00:20:27it wasn't very comfortable with the vehicles and everything,

00:20:30at my house,

00:20:31he was there, and if it hadn't been for my grandparents,

00:20:33I wouldn't have been able to continue, logically.

00:20:36Did your grandfather see you play in Serie A?

00:20:38Yes, he saw me,

00:20:40my grandparents were my first fans,

00:20:43but also my father,

00:20:47certainly with a very strong character,

00:20:50a very strong person,

00:20:53he always lived it with a detached emotion,

00:20:58he never wanted me to be seen,

00:21:01but he had an incredible pride.

00:21:03My father did it on his own,

00:21:06he worked all his life,

00:21:08he was an Ansaldo worker,

00:21:10despite that, he always kept doing his job,

00:21:13he always did everything he had to do.

00:21:15He had an incredible emotion for me,

00:21:18and he expressed it, logically,

00:21:21at times in his own way.

00:21:22My mother is the one who made me study,

00:21:25once she didn't let me train for a week and a half,

00:21:28because if you don't study, you don't train anymore,

00:21:30the year before I went to Milan,

00:21:32that was a great lesson,

00:21:33which I'm trying to pass on to my children,

00:21:36and I was lucky to have a family

00:21:38who always followed me,

00:21:40always, they never missed a game or something,

00:21:43but they never allowed me to say,

00:21:46you do this, you do that,

00:21:47it's better if you do this, it's better if you do that,

00:21:49that's the luck I had.

00:21:50How much did your parents bring to the pitch?

00:21:52I mean, I think of your father, a worker,

00:21:55and you, not to trivialise the football player,

00:21:59but you were someone who worked a lot, right?

00:22:01Yes, even if maybe characteristically,

00:22:02I took this tinge from my mother.

00:22:07My mother is a good hammer,

00:22:10she was always one,

00:22:11and so was she.

00:22:13My mother was between 18 and 19 years old

00:22:17when I got pregnant,

00:22:21and my father was two years older,

00:22:23so we were young boys who got married,

00:22:25then at the age of six,

00:22:27being so young, they split up,

00:22:29and I was one of the boys,

00:22:31nowadays, it's normal, unfortunately,

00:22:33but in my time, I was the only one in the class,

00:22:36it wasn't like that,

00:22:37but I grew up with a lot of love,

00:22:40they were always there for me,

00:22:43my mother definitely gave something important to my life,

00:22:46from the point of view of the desire to assert yourself,

00:22:49the desire to achieve goals,

00:22:51and to see my father, who did that job,

00:22:53and who had this thing,

00:22:55they definitely influenced my growth,

00:22:58from the point of view of wanting to achieve something.

00:23:01But let's start with your professional career,

00:23:04because you're a sixth grader,

00:23:07so you're close to home,

00:23:08Lumezzane, the old C2,

00:23:11then the C1, you went through a setback,

00:23:13then Verona in Serie B,

00:23:15it's the most classic example of Gavetta,

00:23:17so I'd like you to tell us about that period,

00:23:20and then I'll go back to a topic I mentioned earlier,

00:23:22when you forget your passion as a kid,

00:23:25and start living as a professional,

00:23:26when you really approach the first team,

00:23:29when you understand you can be a footballer,

00:23:31when, little by little, this passion goes away,

00:23:35let's call it passion, attachment...

00:23:37No, this was my...

00:23:39How I lived those years was, in my opinion, my strength.

00:23:44So, yes, I went to Pro Sesto for the first two years,

00:23:49after the Milan Spring,

00:23:51and there I had a bit of my first disappointment

00:23:55in the world of football, because I said,

00:23:57damn, I spent ten years in the youth academy at Milan,

00:23:59I was captain of the Primavera, of the Beretti...

00:24:03I thought that maybe Milan could focus a bit more on me,

00:24:09but maybe in those years they had focused more on three or four other guys,

00:24:13and they sent me to Pro Sesto for more,

00:24:17owned by Pro Sesto, but with a...

00:24:20A repurchase.

00:24:21Yes, they said, before selling it to another team,

00:24:23you have to ask us, and we at that point,

00:24:25because there weren't all the things yet,

00:24:27but the agreements were those.

00:24:29So, a bit of disappointment.

00:24:30But the luck I had was that I never thought about...

00:24:36I want to win the Champions League, I want to get there,

00:24:39I want that obsession,

00:24:42or if that one happens, I'll get there too,

00:24:45or I'm stronger than that one, or all these things.

00:24:49Why did my team-mates, who were with me in the Primavera,

00:24:53where this guy is not stronger than me,

00:24:55and yet he went to play there? I never said that.

00:24:58I always prepared for the game on Saturday or Sunday,

00:25:02with enthusiasm, desire and commitment.

00:25:04So, I started running, working,

00:25:07doing everything I could to...

00:25:09In fact, I spent the first two years at Pro Sesto,

00:25:11in the third year I could go to Serie B,

00:25:13because two Serie B teams wanted me, but I had the military service.

00:25:17That year they still had the military service.

00:25:19So, I made the choice not to go to Serie B,

00:25:22I agreed with Lumezzane, because they wanted me,

00:25:25and they were wonderful people,

00:25:26so we shook hands and I said, OK, I'm coming to Lumezzane.

00:25:29You'll pay me in full.

00:25:31If next year a Serie B team comes along

00:25:34and gives you the same money you paid me this year,

00:25:37or more, at least the money you took out,

00:25:40you can't say no and let me go.

00:25:43Mister, I have a big question in the middle of your speech,

00:25:46which I really care about.

00:25:47I imagine...

00:25:50Let's talk about 30 years ago, when you made the jump to the first team.

00:25:5430 years ago, a young captain of a Milan spring team

00:26:00went to Serie B.

00:26:02And he approached, I'm sure, with great respect,

00:26:06the veterans of Serie C,

00:26:08who we know are old wolves and we have to be very careful.

00:26:12At the time it was like that.

00:26:14And now I ask you, how has the world changed in this sense?

00:26:19I don't want to talk about respect, but I'll put it in there.

00:26:23Yes, I don't think it's a form of respect.

00:26:26Because even today's kids, when they enter a dressing room...

00:26:30Maybe not outside,

00:26:32but even today's kids have a kind of respect inside a dressing room.

00:26:38Then there were the stupid ones in my time,

00:26:40and the stupid ones are still there.

00:26:42But that's another story.

00:26:44But I tell you, seeing the older players,

00:26:48the ones who had to bring home their salary at the end of the month,

00:26:50because they had to support their wives and children,

00:26:53and in Serie C, salaries aren't that high.

00:26:57So, it's a different kind of hunger,

00:27:01a different goal.

00:27:03Because you're still living your dream, your game,

00:27:08something you've wanted to do since you were a kid.

00:27:10But maybe there's someone who has already taken one step further,

00:27:15and he's doing it because he has to bring home his salary,

00:27:17because he has to support his family, because he has to create a future.

00:27:20So, it's definitely not easy.

00:27:23Today's kids are a bit lighter on this.

00:27:27Even if I have to be honest, I can't go against today's kids.

00:27:32When we talk, they're only on social media,

00:27:35they've moved away from those things.

00:27:38It's not the fault of today's kids,

00:27:40it's the fault of our society in general.

00:27:42Because when we're done, the first thing I'll do,

00:27:47when I get up to go out, is this.

00:27:51I take my phone, do this, and start looking at the things I have to look at.

00:27:55Imagine if the three of us took this object away.

00:27:59We'd be in a lot of trouble too.

00:28:01So, it's the society that has evolved.

00:28:05I always say that there are three steps.

00:28:08A step between my grandparents and my parents.

00:28:14A step between my parents and us.

00:28:18Two steps between us and our children.

00:28:22Because now society is moving too fast.

00:28:25It's moving too fast.

00:28:26So, between us and the various generations, there was only one step.

00:28:30Between us and our children, there are two, because everything has accelerated.

00:28:34And these kids sometimes take the blame

00:28:37that is actually linked to the world we live in

00:28:40and to what they have to...

00:28:43where they grew up and how they grew up.

00:28:46I have a question, the first one I wanted to ask you.

00:28:49It's nice that we're jumping on various memories,

00:28:53so we're jumping left and right.

00:28:56Speaking of today's youth, I often hear a lot about the strongest.

00:29:02Then I hear about your generation.

00:29:05And there's only one.

00:29:06I have no doubt, I've always been with you.

00:29:09Don't make me do a gaffe, it's Ronaldo.

00:29:11I'll tell you this, when I hear and see,

00:29:14sorry for this personal gap,

00:29:15but in this podcast we'll come out of it too.

00:29:18I say, when I hear Cristiano Ronaldo,

00:29:21let's leave Messi out of it, but Cristiano Ronaldo,

00:29:24rather than this, rather than that,

00:29:26even from kids who have seen Ronaldo play like us,

00:29:30one, if you hear Maldini, Costacurta, Nesta,

00:29:34and they say, Ronaldo is impossible.

00:29:36But I remember the last Ronaldo at Milan,

00:29:40who, let's be clear, with all due respect to a phenomenon,

00:29:42wasn't in shape, he scored two goals walking.

00:29:45When you get to that level,

00:29:48not counting Ronaldo, Inter, or the year before,

00:29:51you lived it at Inter and you lived it at Milan.

00:29:54And that's why I ask you,

00:29:55help me with this personal gap, I've never started,

00:29:57but I want to start and end with you,

00:29:59explaining to all the young people, and even less,

00:30:02what Ronaldo was like.

00:30:03I'll put the young people in their place in just a second.

00:30:08Today, there are those who are pro Messi

00:30:12and those who are pro Ronaldo.

00:30:15The great thing about Ronaldo the phenomenon

00:30:17is that you have to think,

00:30:20pro one, pro the other,

00:30:22you have to think that you'll never agree.

00:30:26There's only one person in the world who can agree with you,

00:30:29and that's Ronaldo the phenomenon,

00:30:30because he had exactly the technical qualities,

00:30:33the spirit and the things of Messi,

00:30:36and Cristiano Ronaldo's physical and athletic strength,

00:30:42and the sense of goal.

00:30:43Let's put Messi and Ronaldo together,

00:30:46and he's exactly in the middle between the two.

00:30:50There's a moment when, seeing him on the pitch,

00:30:53it was obvious to everyone, from VHS, live, from the stadium,

00:30:57but you saw him in the dressing room.

00:30:59I'm sure that, looking at him on the videotapes,

00:31:01I understand the young people, even today,

00:31:03those who haven't seen him much,

00:31:05who can't put him at the level of Messi

00:31:09or CR7.

00:31:11I understand these young people,

00:31:15but we, who saw him with our own eyes,

00:31:18who saw him in the game,

00:31:19did we play together or did we train together?

00:31:24He was an alien.

00:31:26He was something, and we saw strong players,

00:31:29because in Milan we had some strong players,

00:31:32but he was something...

00:31:34He was something unthinkable,

00:31:38something out of the ordinary.

00:31:40Can you give us two frames of your Ronaldo?

00:31:42Ronaldo with his knees...

00:31:44When I was at Inter, he was injured.

00:31:48It was his first major injury.

00:31:50The problem is that he...

00:31:51I'll give you an example. I remember the times,

00:31:54but in February or March,

00:31:55between the end of February and the beginning of March,

00:31:57he could start again with the team,

00:32:00do some training, some games,

00:32:02not at 100%, like that.

00:32:04We were in a very difficult moment,

00:32:07we were doing very badly that year.

00:32:09So, he came to play the game

00:32:11and they said, he can't play, he can't do it,

00:32:13he's too slow, that's all.

00:32:15He took the ball,

00:32:16and... goal.

00:32:18Goal.

00:32:20And we said, why can't he play?

00:32:23Because he was something incredibly big.

00:32:29He'd move the ball,

00:32:31and he'd say, I'll do this, and he'd do it.

00:32:33And then he'd play some moves

00:32:36that you didn't even think about,

00:32:37and he'd already done them.

00:32:39So, he was a gift.

00:32:42That's a gift, guys.

00:32:43You don't train that, that's a gift.

00:32:45Messi is a gift.

00:32:47Ronaldo was a gift,

00:32:49because you don't train those things.

00:32:51He was something incredibly big.

00:32:53And at Milan, I remember, in a game...

00:32:57but I'm not saying, give me this,

00:33:00don't tell me which game,

00:33:02because it wouldn't be nice, but I can say it.

00:33:06Ronny was something indecent.

00:33:09He wasn't taking a ball.

00:33:12He wasn't doing that.

00:33:14At a certain point, Ronny, come on,

00:33:16come on, Ronny, he's so cool.

00:33:18Another quality Ronny had was sympathy.

00:33:21You loved him.

00:33:22You know, sometimes he was really nice,

00:33:25you loved him so much.

00:33:27Come on, Ronny, that's the way it is.

00:33:30He'd look at you, once, twice.

00:33:33At a certain point,

00:33:34one of us, with a slightly stronger tone,

00:33:38said, Ronny, you're broken now.

00:33:41Come on, wake up, give us a hand,

00:33:43at least do a run, something.

00:33:44He'd say, I'll score now,

00:33:47and then he'd stop talking.

00:33:49And he'd do what?

00:33:50He'd turn around, he'd take the ball,

00:33:54bam, goal.

00:33:55He'd turn around, he'd say, OK.

00:33:57Come on, Ronny, that's incredible.

00:33:59They were players who did what they wanted.

00:34:01What was he like in the dressing room?

00:34:02Very nice, very nice.

00:34:05He was a wonderful boy.

00:34:07Even today, when we see each other,

00:34:09he comes to say hello, he laughs,

00:34:11he always has that smile.

00:34:13No, he's really a boy...

00:34:15For me, he's incredibly great,

00:34:18that's why I call him that.

00:34:19Let's get to Serie B, Verona.

00:34:22You find Cesare Prandelli,

00:34:23who you've always said was a teacher for you,

00:34:25perhaps the coach who left you the most.

00:34:27Absolutely.

00:34:28It was one of the first games in Serie B.

00:34:30You probably started to understand,

00:34:32even if, as you just said,

00:34:33you didn't have the focus of getting to the top.

00:34:35You thought game after game,

00:34:36but it was the second series,

00:34:38it was an important square like Verona,

00:34:40and you played against Milan.

00:34:41Yes, and then you realise I'd played in Lumezzane,

00:34:44where there weren't many people to see you.

00:34:46At Pro Sesto, where I don't know how many people there are,

00:34:51when I arrived at Verona,

00:34:53the first game, you turned around and saw that corner,

00:34:56the stadium was full, it was something different.

00:34:59So, that was the first step, but it was an exaltation.

00:35:02I mean, every time I got the ball at Verona,

00:35:06and I'd start, maybe I'd pick up a ball,

00:35:09and I'd start, I'd feel that buzz.

00:35:13And these things are important for a boy,

00:35:16they exalt you, you're full of your physical strength,

00:35:19you don't feel anything, you'd go up against the walls.

00:35:22So, that was definitely the first important step,

00:35:26even if I still didn't realise I could get there.

00:35:32I definitely had a goal,

00:35:34which was to win,

00:35:37or to repay, more than to win,

00:35:39to repay the trust that a coach like Prandelli had given me,

00:35:42who wanted me at all costs at Verona.

00:35:45I was Prandelli's first purchase at Verona,

00:35:48and Prandelli's first purchase at Florence,

00:35:5030 years later.

00:35:52So, I wanted to repay the trust he had given me.

00:35:56It was an incredible year, we won the league

00:35:59with a team that didn't have to win the league,

00:36:01it wasn't built to win the league,

00:36:03it was built to amaze and maybe create some young players,

00:36:07because that was the club's mentality, and that's how it was.

00:36:10We won, and we definitely created some players.

00:36:14So, sorry, Fra, but it was always more adrenaline than fear,

00:36:18more excitement than pressure.

00:36:20I'll tell you the truth, in my life,

00:36:23in a football match or in a moment, I've never been afraid.

00:36:29Fear has never existed for me.

00:36:31There was definitely...

00:36:34Tension.

00:36:35Tension, definitely, in some matches,

00:36:38there was more tension than in others.

00:36:41Maybe this tension, if you can't handle it,

00:36:43can sometimes play bad jokes,

00:36:45so maybe you'll play a bad match,

00:36:48and even if you trained very well,

00:36:50if you did everything you had to do,

00:36:53maybe you'll play a bad match, two matches, three matches,

00:36:56because maybe it's the tension that leads you to not be free.

00:37:01But fear, I've never been afraid to play football.

00:37:03Let's ask you, is it a coincidence that Verona's Prandelli,

00:37:07so a coach, had the following future coaches in pink?

00:37:12Brocchi, Aglietti, Corini, Colucci, Italiano.

00:37:16Is it a coincidence, or when you have a great coach,

00:37:18of course, you need to have something in you, but...

00:37:22I'll tell you, like in my Milan,

00:37:24many of my former teammates talk about Ancelotti

00:37:29and coach him.

00:37:31In Verona, all these names you gave me talk about Prandelli,

00:37:36because in your career,

00:37:38there's always a coach who gave you something more than the others.

00:37:41I've always been incredibly lucky,

00:37:44it's true that I say Prandelli, because on a tactical level,

00:37:48and in terms of preparation for the game,

00:37:50also from a mental point of view,

00:37:51he's the one who made me make the leap of quality.

00:37:53On a tactical level, he taught me a lot.

00:37:57But more than anything, I had Lippi, I had Ancelotti.

00:38:02Ancelotti didn't have to work with us

00:38:04to do who knows how many tactical jobs,

00:38:08because the team was a well-formed team,

00:38:11a team of great champions,

00:38:12a team that had a game identity that he gave us.

00:38:15But he was a great coach in many ways,

00:38:18and the things we did on the pitch

00:38:20were all designed to make us play that way.

00:38:23But there was no exasperation about tactical teaching,

00:38:27because many of us already had the basics

00:38:30that allowed us to do what he asked us to do.

00:38:33While Prandelli had to build,

00:38:34and that's why he was the one

00:38:38who was in charge of that group of ex-ELLAS players,

00:38:43because we were young and he definitely left us something.

00:38:45But how did he have to approach you as a coach

00:38:47to get you to perform?

00:38:49Did he have to be more of a psychologist, a friend, a father?

00:38:51He had to be honest, he had to be honest.

00:38:56He had to have a relationship with me.

00:38:59For me, coaches have to have a relationship with the players.

00:39:02There are coaches who say,

00:39:04I don't want to have a relationship with the players,

00:39:05it's like I say,

00:39:06I don't care, you're fine this way, otherwise you're out.

00:39:09It's a choice, I'm not saying it's right or wrong,

00:39:13it's a choice.

00:39:14In my years, with the coaches I had a relationship with,

00:39:19and they had a relationship not just with me, but with the team,

00:39:23those were the years when we got results.

00:39:26Whereas in a couple of seasons,

00:39:29when the coach was cold, detached,

00:39:33he never gave you...

00:39:36Yes, he'd make fun of you every 20 days,

00:39:38but you could tell he was forced.

00:39:41He didn't create that empathy with the group,

00:39:44and we didn't get results.

00:39:46So, I think that's a very, very important factor.

00:39:51I'd say that,

00:39:53You mentioned Ancelotti,

00:39:54I'd like to open this huge parenthesis,

00:39:57we could go on and on.

00:39:59How was Carlo?

00:40:00He was wonderful.

00:40:02Wonderful because,

00:40:03and I'm telling you, he wasn't an unmovable starter.

00:40:06Otherwise, those who have always played,

00:40:09who have played all the starting games,

00:40:12talk about him as a wonderful person,

00:40:14but it's even easier for them to say that.

00:40:16Instead, I had a wonderful relationship.

00:40:19In seven years, maybe only a couple of times,

00:40:23there was a period when he wasn't as good as I was,

00:40:28because maybe at that moment I deserved something more

00:40:32and he didn't give it to me.

00:40:34But he was aware of it, because it was an open book.

00:40:38So, when he was in trouble with you

00:40:42because he knew you were right,

00:40:44he made you understand, but he didn't tell you.

00:40:46So, at that point, you couldn't do anything.

00:40:49He was a wonderful man,

00:40:51he made everyone love him, he made you feel important.

00:40:56I always say this, in an interview he gave to IEA,

00:41:01he asked, who was the most underrated player he'd coached,

00:41:04and he said Christian Brocchi.

00:41:05And that's an incredible compliment

00:41:08from a great coach like him.

00:41:10Why?

00:41:11Because he knew he could always count on me.

00:41:14In the end, as I said before,

00:41:18in those quarter-finals with Ajax,

00:41:20in the first leg semi-final with Inter,

00:41:24if Brocchi, instead of being one of the best on the pitch,

00:41:27had been the worst on the pitch,

00:41:29maybe the games would have ended differently,

00:41:33also because of a single player.

00:41:34Mister, I wanted to ask you,

00:41:36if you were a player, and as you see players today,

00:41:40when they don't play, is it right to explain why,

00:41:44or does the coach have to explain?

00:41:47And on the contrary, if the player comes, with respect,

00:41:50to ask, why don't I play, what can I improve,

00:41:54how does a coach see it?

00:41:56This is the most difficult part.

00:41:58I think there are two different worlds.

00:42:01Those who say, I don't have to explain,

00:42:03because if you don't play, it's because it's a technical choice,

00:42:05so it's useless to tell me why you don't play, it's a technical choice.

00:42:08But there are those who like to talk and give an explanation.

00:42:13I always say, either you do it this way,

00:42:15so you never give an explanation, and it's the same for everyone,

00:42:19or if you decide to go into it with respect,

00:42:22you have to tell the truth.

00:42:25So you have to be 100% honest.

00:42:28Because sometimes it's not good, you say.

00:42:30No, because if you go and talk to a player,

00:42:34and you tell him stories, players aren't stupid.

00:42:37So you either tell the truth,

00:42:38and you accept the dialogue and tell the truth,

00:42:40or if you have to say something negative,

00:42:45something... not negative, sorry,

00:42:47something that's not true,

00:42:49in order to get out of that dialogue,

00:42:52I think it's better if you don't talk,

00:42:54because then the player will leave,

00:42:55and if he feels taken aback,

00:42:58it also affects the relationship and the esteem,

00:43:01so the player might...

00:43:02I don't know if you remember,

00:43:03but we saw in your career,

00:43:05that in Serie A, on Carlo Ancelotti's Milan bench,

00:43:09Cristian Brocchi was the starting midfielder.

00:43:12With Piacenza.

00:43:13Yes, with Piacenza, good.

00:43:13I missed a brilliant goal.

00:43:15Yes, Ancelotti's first chance...

00:43:18Yes, yes.

00:43:18Did you expect to play as a starting midfielder?

00:43:20I knew there was a vacancy in that day,

00:43:24I had done well in the Coppa Italia match,

00:43:27so he put me in a position that was a bit unusual,

00:43:30because we played 4-4-2,

00:43:32and I played wide on the left,

00:43:34and I remember that cross that went down

00:43:37against him...

00:43:40I think it was against him,

00:43:42it was high, it went down like that,

00:43:43I came running to hit it...

00:43:45You still remember that?

00:43:47Why did you stay in?

00:43:48Because I stayed in...

00:43:49I scored a few goals,

00:43:52and the ones that didn't go in,

00:43:55or the ones that went out like that,

00:43:57I have them as memories.

00:43:59I remember that one,

00:44:00because that's a matter of a centimetre.

00:44:03That's a centimetre.

00:44:04That mistake is a centimetre,

00:44:07so it's not good or bad.

00:44:09For me, Lobont's is even less than a centimetre.

00:44:12Lobont's is one of the greatest...

00:44:13How do you remember that, coach?

00:44:15I remember it because I scored in C2,

00:44:20I scored in C1, I scored in Serie B,

00:44:22I scored in Serie A, I scored in the Europa League,

00:44:25even though I didn't score many goals in my career.

00:44:28I don't think that's even true, coach.

00:44:30And he missed the Champions League goal.

00:44:34And what a game!

00:44:35That was a goal.

00:44:36That was a goal, for Christ's sake.

00:44:38With the VAR...

00:44:39It was in, but it was so close.

00:44:41I had two episodes like that in my career.

00:44:44The Champions League one with Ajax,

00:44:47and the one in a Napoli-Lazio,

00:44:49decisive for the Champions League,

00:44:51where we lost 4-3, I think,

00:44:54and a beautiful shot from offside,

00:44:59he crosses it, it goes in,

00:45:00the ball comes out,

00:45:02and they didn't score a goal there either.

00:45:03So, two in my career aren't that few.

00:45:07But that 1,000 against Ajax is incredible.

00:45:11It's something really beautiful.

00:45:13It's something beautiful because I remember it as if it were yesterday,

00:45:19because, to be honest,

00:45:22it's always been a bit of a pride of mine,

00:45:24that game against Ajax and the derby against Inter,

00:45:27because quarter-finals and semi-finals are two key games,

00:45:31it's not a one-round game.

00:45:33It's a one-on-one game, it's a really tough game.

00:45:36That derby was a really beautiful game,

00:45:38played well, with a commitment.

00:45:43But you know what I had?

00:45:44The luck I had in my career

00:45:47was that when I was wearing the shirt,

00:45:50I would look at it and say,

00:45:52every single person sitting here looking at me

00:45:55would like to be in my place.

00:45:57How can I not give everything I have?

00:45:59That doesn't mean you played well, you couldn't make a mistake,

00:46:03but on a level of desire, of energy,

00:46:07of spirit, of dedication,

00:46:10of what a player must have,

00:46:12a player who must respect everyone who came there,

00:46:15who pays to look at you,

00:46:17who travelled miles to look at you,

00:46:19and who would like to be in your place.

00:46:21That's the most beautiful thing, and it's always been that way for me.

00:46:25I have a vivid memory

00:46:28of when we went to get the penalty,

00:46:31and where the 3-2 came from.

00:46:33They took the ball and left, I couldn't run anymore.

00:46:37In that area, it's not that I...

00:46:39But I run to give a sign,

00:46:42because sometimes, the runs of a player...

00:46:45and in my career, I've had some.

00:46:49In the difficult moments of a game,

00:46:50when you're down to ten or five minutes,

00:46:53a player who does the stupid run

00:46:56to give a sign...

00:46:59He gives a sign to his team-mates, to the people,

00:47:02and to the opposing team.

00:47:04Ah, Rino at Manchester is something...

00:47:06Rino's run, he did it a few times.

00:47:09On that occasion, or other occasions,

00:47:12I have a vivid memory of when I see teams

00:47:16who are equalising or losing and have to recover.

00:47:18And I don't see a player who, five minutes from the end,

00:47:22takes the ball out and does that stupid move.

00:47:26It's not about saying,

00:47:28change the game.

00:47:30It's the sign you give that's important.

00:47:33There are those who believe in these things, me,

00:47:35and there are those who say, what are you talking about?

00:47:38Giroud often has these back-and-forth runs

00:47:40to try and get a ball back, which isn't great,

00:47:43to give those signs.

00:47:44It's a sign. Guys, it's not something you do

00:47:47because with that one, you get the ball back,

00:47:51dribble everything... No, you know it's a stupid run.

00:47:54But even when you have to get the ball back from the side,

00:47:57you know that hitting the ball back three seconds before

00:48:00doesn't change anything.

00:48:02But it's what you give.

00:48:04You're telling your team-mates,

00:48:07let's believe in ourselves,

00:48:08you're telling your opponents, let's score,

00:48:12you're asking the fans for help if they're at home,

00:48:16you're scaring them if they're away.

00:48:19I'd like to stay on Inter,

00:48:20and then I'll leave you with what we want to talk about.

00:48:25It's bad to talk about Inter,

00:48:26because we're in Milan's home,

00:48:28but as you said, there's a lot of respect between the fans.

00:48:30That's the beauty of Milan,

00:48:31there's a lot of respect between the two clubs.

00:48:34But I can't not ask you two things,

00:48:35since you've been here, you've experienced Inter.

00:48:38If you saw that Pirlo was already a player who could come on,

00:48:42we don't want to demonise anyone,

00:48:44because in Milan, Juve, there were great players,

00:48:47Henry, Vieira, with their parables.

00:48:50But I wanted to ask you about Pirlo,

00:48:52and I wanted to ask you how you experienced Milan's 6-0 in the dressing room.

00:48:59Well...

00:49:04Fortunately, I wasn't there.

00:49:06So, I experienced that 6-0 from the outside,

00:49:10and I didn't experience it in the dressing room.

00:49:13So, I missed that part.

00:49:16But honestly, regardless of everything,

00:49:18it's true that in Milan,

00:49:21there's a lot of respect between the fans.

00:49:23That's true, but it's also true that you want to win.

00:49:26Of course.

00:49:27Because it's fair that the derby is always the derby, guys.

00:49:30Regardless of the respect, which is also a matter of intelligence,

00:49:33but still, it gave them the desire to win,

00:49:37the desire to have a little fight,

00:49:40even among friends, that's fine.

00:49:42But definitely, getting six goals in a derby is a lot.

00:49:45It's something that hurts,

00:49:48it's something that you don't get away with easily,

00:49:52because...

00:49:55maybe...

00:49:57in Milan, the fans,

00:50:01after the next derby,

00:50:05or two derbies later, if you win the other one,

00:50:08you start to let it slip away.

00:50:10The player stays in for a while,

00:50:12because it's something special.

00:50:14What about Pirlo?

00:50:16As for Pirlo, what can I tell you?

00:50:19I played against him when we were young,

00:50:23and you could always see him with that elegance, those shots.

00:50:27But he played as a three-pointer,

00:50:30and I'll tell you the truth, he was good as a three-pointer,

00:50:34because he had those qualities.

00:50:36But I think he lacked something in those years,

00:50:42which could have been due to his youth,

00:50:45it could have been because he needed to go down that path.

00:50:49But he was a very good player, a very good three-pointer,

00:50:53but he still lacked something.

00:50:55And I think he earned that little something in his position on the pitch.

00:50:59Because a count is when he takes the ball with his shoulders turned,

00:51:04or half-open with his body,

00:51:06a count is when he takes the ball and looks at everything.

00:51:09When Andrea takes the ball and looks at everything...

00:51:13we can say goodbye.

00:51:15Good night, dreamers.

00:51:17As for the Derby Vinti,

00:51:19I'd like to end that incredible May 2003,

00:51:22because it's in everything.

00:51:25I don't want to talk about the story or the feelings,

00:51:30but an anecdote about those six days.

00:51:32When you're on leave, and all of Italy, all of Europe...

00:51:36But more than Europe, it's Milan,

00:51:38because you feel it when you turn on the TV, the radio,

00:51:40when you get in the car, get in the taxi, go to Milanello,

00:51:43when you get out of the house.

00:51:45There was an incredible tension.

00:51:48But you told me before about the desire you had.

00:51:50I'm thinking about that room in Turin and Cristiano Milanello.

00:51:54I'm telling you, someone is making fun of me,

00:51:57saying, of course,

00:51:58because you knew you wouldn't start in the final,

00:52:02and so you lacked something.

00:52:06No, no, it's not like that.

00:52:09In that first match of the Euroderby,

00:52:13there was an adrenaline rush, there was something in the air.

00:52:16Milanello was magical.

00:52:18When we were walking down the corridors,

00:52:23even the corridors of Milanello seemed to be saying something to you.

00:52:27If I think about it, I get goosebumps,

00:52:30because it was a really beautiful week.

00:52:36Beautiful, beautiful.

00:52:37For me, it was even more beautiful

00:52:41than the evening before the final,

00:52:44where you met Juve in the final,

00:52:46and you could still win the Champions League.

00:52:48So it was a further confirmation of that.

00:52:53But that time, in the Euroderby,

00:52:55it was the first Euroderby,

00:52:58you played a Champions League final,

00:53:00the first for many,

00:53:02and you weren't at the top,

00:53:06like Rosa, at that moment.

00:53:08There were so many things.

00:53:10And there, we needed what we were.

00:53:13Group, strength, personality, fear,

00:53:17which shouldn't be there.

00:53:18And it was beautiful.

00:53:19You weren't in the hotel room.

00:53:21I was always in Biatti and Gattuso.

00:53:23We had a triple room in Milanello.

00:53:25We were the only triple room.

00:53:26Usually, there are single rooms, or maybe a couple of doubles.

00:53:29We had a double room, a triple room,

00:53:31and for years, the three of us stayed in the same room.

00:53:34And I assure you, it was a beautiful night,

00:53:36because we didn't sleep much,

00:53:39but because we couldn't wait for the next day.

00:53:43And that trip from Milanello,

00:53:45when we went out to get to the stadium.

00:53:48Those are memories that I still have vividly in my head,

00:53:51really beautiful.

00:53:53There was tension, but there were smiles among us,

00:53:56there were some forced jokes

00:53:59that you used to express the tension.

00:54:01Who was the one who was the most tense?

00:54:03All of us.

00:54:04We were a really nice group.

00:54:06We had fun.

00:54:08In Ancelotti's days, in the evening before a game,

00:54:10he was used to it.

00:54:11I was used to it with Prandelli, in the evening before a game.

00:54:14He would sit there and look at everyone,

00:54:16who laughed more, who laughed less.

00:54:17He was the one who kept us going.

00:54:20He'd say, if he comes to our Milan adesso

00:54:23and sees us in the evening before a game,

00:54:25he'd send us home.

00:54:26We'd laugh, we'd joke, we'd make fun of each other.

00:54:29Then the training started, and boom!

00:54:33Seriousness, commitment.

00:54:35It was all like that.

00:54:36There was a big joke.

00:54:38There were millions of them.

00:54:40You can tell us about half of them.

00:54:42Look, we can only tell you about one.

00:54:46At a certain point,

00:54:48without saying what we wrote,

00:54:50but one time we stole Gattuso's phone

00:54:53and started sending messages to everyone.

00:54:57To journalists, to Braida,

00:54:59to managers, to people.

00:55:02And we sent...

00:55:04Tell us about one.

00:55:05At a certain point, he got the answers,

00:55:08he said, you can't understand,

00:55:10something happened...

00:55:11Didn't you always get it?

00:55:12With Andrea, I got some good slaps.

00:55:16In the last few years, when Odo arrived,

00:55:18I got some good slaps from him too, from Rino.

00:55:21But they were all silly things.

00:55:24You know? Silly things.

00:55:26In fact, even Andrea,

00:55:28when I made jokes about him,

00:55:29he'd take it by the hair and pull it back.

00:55:31It became a bit of a joke.

00:55:35It was cute.

00:55:37But what...

00:55:38I mean, you also talked about...

00:55:41I imagine, as three roommates,

00:55:43PlayStation, and I imagine also brotherly talks, right?

00:55:46PlayStation was Piero and Nesta,

00:55:50who had PlayStation fixed in their room.

00:55:54We didn't have PlayStation,

00:55:55but we did talk about our stuff.

00:55:58We had a relationship.

00:55:59When you're a real group,

00:56:01good and bad things,

00:56:02good and bad moments,

00:56:04your teammates are also useful.

00:56:07We were very close and helped each other a lot.

00:56:11What do you three have in common?

00:56:13You can see it from the outside.

00:56:14Because Abbiati, you and Gattuso,

00:56:17you're three people...

00:56:18The first thing that comes to mind,

00:56:19not knowing you in depth, is true.

00:56:22I think of Gattuso, he's been here for years.

00:56:24It's the only thing we have in common.

00:56:26Ah, okay. I got it.

00:56:27Exactly. Why?

00:56:29Because we're real people,

00:56:31in fact, we met.

00:56:33Then, Abbiati in one way,

00:56:35Rino in another,

00:56:37and I'm still in another way.

00:56:38Each of us is different.

00:56:41Now, I saw Abbiati last week,

00:56:45I hadn't seen him in a few months.

00:56:47As soon as we see each other again,

00:56:48my eyes shine, his eyes shine.

00:56:50What's your name? Is there a nickname?

00:56:51No, no, no.

00:56:53But sometimes the eyes speak,

00:56:56and that's it, you don't need to say anything else.

00:56:59I saw him last week,

00:57:00we hadn't seen each other in a few months.

00:57:02The nice thing is that I always say,

00:57:03not just the three of us, but all of Milan,

00:57:06that life leads you to not be able to go out.

00:57:08Maybe you feel little, maybe you don't see yourself.

00:57:11But if we were to meet here right now,

00:57:13if we were to find ourselves in this room,

00:57:15all of us, from that group of mine,

00:57:18from that Milan over there,

00:57:19we'd start talking, laughing, joking,

00:57:22as if we'd seen each other yesterday in Milan.

00:57:24Because there was something, a very important alchemy.

00:57:27There were no WhatsApp groups, you created them later.

00:57:30But they weren't a priority, for sure.

00:57:32Maybe they weren't.

00:57:34The priority wasn't that one, at that moment.

00:57:37The eyes speak,

00:57:38the eyes of Sheva Manchester are a frame that I think...

00:57:42Not you, because you didn't see him on TV.

00:57:45I imagine you saw him again later.

00:57:46But for a fan of Milan, he's almost an icon.

00:57:50I'm not asking much about that game,

00:57:51I'm asking about afterwards.

00:57:52Because, Fran, we're used to coming back right after the game,

00:57:56so we'd arrive in Milan at night.

00:57:57If I'm not mistaken, you stayed in Manchester.

00:57:59Yes, we always did.

00:58:00But all the Champions League games,

00:58:01we'd stay to sleep in the evening after the game

00:58:04and we'd come back in the morning.

00:58:06Because that's something we change.

00:58:07It depends on the airport.

00:58:08Lately, if the airport is a bit more open,

00:58:11if not, they close.

00:58:13Yes, it depends.

00:58:14We had a partnership,

00:58:16we preferred to sleep there,

00:58:18because you had the chance to wake up in the morning,

00:58:20go straight to Milanello,

00:58:21do the training session,

00:58:23play a bit, and then go home.

00:58:25It was a classic that we had in our time.

00:58:29But I'll tell you,

00:58:31the good thing is that,

00:58:34I think we were...

00:58:35At that moment, we won the Champions League,

00:58:38and for many of us, as I said, it was the first time.

00:58:42So, you wanted to win this Champions League

00:58:44and make a small dedication.

00:58:47Each of us would have had I don't know how many people

00:58:51to whom to make a gesture, a look, a word,

00:58:55something, I remember.

00:58:57Wives, relatives...

00:58:59Who were your parents?

00:59:00In the stands, there was my fiancée,

00:59:03then there were all the wives' fiancées.

00:59:07There were some parents,

00:59:09there were friends, there were...

00:59:12Each of us wanted to give someone of his life,

00:59:16someone who had been with him up to that point,

00:59:18something to say thank you.

00:59:21Nice.

00:59:21That gesture of the Champions League,

00:59:24when you show it,

00:59:25it's like saying thank you,

00:59:27because you win a trophy,

00:59:29which is the dream of every player,

00:59:32to win the Champions League.

00:59:33And you won it,

00:59:35also thanks to the help of other people,

00:59:36who maybe shared your life with you.

00:59:39If I think of my grandparents,

00:59:42if I think of my dad, my mom,

00:59:44if I think of the people who were close to me

00:59:46since I was a kid,

00:59:48seeing their son win the Champions League...

00:59:50What do your children say

00:59:51when they see you win the Champions League?

00:59:53It's different.

00:59:54Because there wasn't that light eye.

00:59:56I have a son who is a great Milanese,

00:59:57a real Milanese, a great Milanese.

01:00:00He likes it.

01:00:01My son, on the other hand,

01:00:02his wife is a Milanese,

01:00:03his son is a great Milanese,

01:00:05I'm a Milanese, you know that very well,

01:00:06that sometimes, in all families,

01:00:08the little one comes and says,

01:00:09yes, you're all Milanese,

01:00:11and I'm a Juventian.

01:00:13So, unfortunately,

01:00:14I was able to bring him up on our side.

01:00:16Then Cristiano Ronaldo came along,

01:00:18when he was a kid at school,

01:00:20and he screwed us over.

01:00:22No, but I'm sure they realize that.

01:00:25My little son,

01:00:26we have a picture of him at home,

01:00:28him inside the Champions League.

01:00:30We have this picture here,

01:00:31he was in the Champions League,

01:00:34and we have this picture here.

01:00:35And it's the Milanese one, in fact.

01:00:38They certainly give importance,

01:00:41and they know that,

01:00:42but when you don't see them in person,

01:00:44you don't have the same perception.

01:00:47But when Rino says,

01:00:48in that post-Manchester interview,

01:00:50it was Giorni who said,

01:00:51let me win, let me win,

01:00:52is it also because of that?

01:00:53In the evening before Manchester,

01:00:56do you think back to Bucinasco,

01:00:58or do you think about it later?

01:01:00I'll tell you,

01:01:01when he said, let me win, let me win,

01:01:03I think about two things here.

01:01:04One, I knew I wasn't going to play that game.

01:01:08So I said to Rino, let me win,

01:01:10because I told him,

01:01:12I played the semi-final, I played the quarter-finals,

01:01:15everything fades away.

01:01:18Rino was on the pitch,

01:01:19Rino for me was...

01:01:21I didn't play because Rino was playing,

01:01:23but I was on Rino's side.

01:01:24You were on Rino's side?

01:01:26I was on Rino's side.

01:01:27We warmed up on the pitch before the games,

01:01:29I went out and helped Rino warm up.

01:01:32That was the strength of our group.

01:01:34That was also the strength of some players in our group.

01:01:38I was one of those.

01:01:39It was fair, because Rino was stronger than me.

01:01:43Rino was stronger than me.

01:01:44It's the truth.

01:01:46Was I also strong?

01:01:48Some say yes, some say no.

01:01:50From Milan to Florence I've always been an unmovable star,

01:01:53from Lazio I've always been an unmovable star,

01:01:55from Verona I've always been an unmovable star.

01:01:57At Milan I had these sacred monsters in front of me,

01:02:00so I played less because they were there.

01:02:03Rino was stronger, he played fair,

01:02:05I was cheering for him.

01:02:07He knew that when I got on the pitch,

01:02:10he didn't have to have any problems.

01:02:11That was a great strength.

01:02:13I've heard stories about three teams

01:02:17that I've seen,

01:02:18the things I've read,

01:02:19maybe not something that the players

01:02:21in the dressing rooms argued about,

01:02:23they didn't have a relationship,

01:02:25so they managed to win.

01:02:26But all the teams that won,

01:02:28at the base there was a group of friends,

01:02:30a group that was fine, a chemistry that was created,

01:02:33you can't buy that with money or with technical choices,

01:02:38but the managers have to be lucky enough

01:02:41to buy the players that, without knowing it,

01:02:44manage to create that chemistry that leads you to win.

01:02:49And when you lose?

01:02:50Because you were in Manchester,

01:02:52you were in Athens,

01:02:54you were in the Merida stand, also in Istanbul.

01:02:57How do you deal with that?

01:02:58In your career, how do you react to those days?

01:03:00Rino has often told the story of Dr. Gagnani,

01:03:03who closes it and says, don't move from here,

01:03:05because Rino wanted to quit, he wanted to leave.

01:03:07Of course, because if you do something with true passion,

01:03:11if you do something because you want to,

01:03:13as I told you before,

01:03:15sometimes if there's a Milan fan

01:03:18who says something negative about me,

01:03:22I feel bad about it,

01:03:24not because you said something negative about me,

01:03:28but because maybe you don't know how important that shirt is to me,

01:03:32how much I've given in my life for that shirt.

01:03:36At that time, we were all very close,

01:03:39we all had something really strong.

01:03:41So, when we lost that final in that way,

01:03:45because you have to know how to lose,

01:03:47but when you lose a final and you say,

01:03:50OK, I lost, they were better than us,

01:03:52or we lost in an undeserved way,

01:03:56you get nervous, but you played a game and you lost it.

01:04:00Guys, you can't always win football.

01:04:02OK, a count is to lose it the way we lost it.

01:04:05Dominating.

01:04:06That hurts.

01:04:07We won 2-0 against Liverpool in 2007,

01:04:11playing badly,

01:04:13and we lost in 2005,

01:04:16playing a really good game.

01:04:20So, you understand?

01:04:22You...

01:04:23Unfortunately, that's football.

01:04:25We want to underline the fact that it's been said many times,

01:04:28but maybe someone still doesn't get it,

01:04:30there's the legend of the end of the first half.

01:04:32Let's imagine that.

01:04:35Look, that's absolutely...

01:04:37A way to underline it.

01:04:39Can you imagine Paolo,

01:04:41or can you imagine Billy, or can you imagine someone else?

01:04:44I can tell you,

01:04:46I say Paolo and Billy, so it's credible.

01:04:49But I could tell you, can you imagine me?

01:04:51Can you imagine others?

01:04:53I can assure you, no.

01:04:54Absolutely not.

01:04:55But when Dirk Kuyt signed you for Athens...

01:05:00When?

01:05:00When Kuyt signed you for Athens,

01:05:022-1, 87th or 88th,

01:05:04what did you think?

01:05:07I have to tell you the truth.

01:05:10I never doubted

01:05:13that we couldn't win that cup in 2007.

01:05:16Even before it was 2-0?

01:05:18Yes.

01:05:19If you asked me before the final,

01:05:21I'd say, let's win it.

01:05:23It can't be, let's win it.

01:05:25Because it was too much

01:05:27to not have the rematch we deserved.

01:05:30And above all, for the team we were.

01:05:32Fate and destiny, how did you see it?

01:05:35I saw it from us, but we were a group...

01:05:39We had incredible players,

01:05:42an incredible attachment to the shirt,

01:05:44a strong group.

01:05:46We couldn't not win it.

01:05:48It was too much...

01:05:50It was too much...

01:05:52We held on to it too much.

01:05:54We were too focused,

01:05:57we were all too...

01:05:59I think we were performing at 110%,

01:06:03each of us.

01:06:05In that game, I remember

01:06:08Inzaghi.

01:06:09What was he like before those games?

01:06:11Dressing room, always the same...

01:06:14They always say,

01:06:15in Atreba, Inzaghi didn't have to play

01:06:18because he was at Pezzi,

01:06:20he had to play Gilardino,

01:06:21then Ancelotti says,

01:06:22no, Pippo is always...

01:06:26You never have to listen to Pippo before a game.

01:06:29Otherwise, he always has some problems.

01:06:31Sometimes I laugh because Pippo is my brother,

01:06:34so I can make some jokes about it.

01:06:38Sometimes he has a fever,

01:06:40sometimes he has a sore throat,

01:06:41sometimes he has a sore throat,

01:06:42he has to wear a shirt with wool on it,

01:06:45cotton on his skin,

01:06:46now when he hears me, he calls me.

01:06:50But the truth is that Pippo

01:06:53was very reliable in those games,

01:06:55because he knew that if there was a rebound,

01:06:57a ball, a right move to make,

01:07:00he was there.

01:07:01How do you explain it to Inzaghi?

01:07:02As a footballer, because he was a great player...

01:07:05I can explain it to Inzaghi in one word,

01:07:07passion.

01:07:09Inzaghi is passion.

01:07:10Pippo lived

01:07:12and he still does today.

01:07:14Fortunately, now he's a father

01:07:16and instead of thinking about football 24 hours a day,

01:07:20maybe he thinks about his children for a few hours.

01:07:23Because he was an impressive guy.

01:07:26Even as a kid,

01:07:27if he went out with a woman, he talked about football.

01:07:31Some of my friends knew him and told me,

01:07:34you can tell him if you can't talk about it tonight.

01:07:38Actually, now, fortunately,

01:07:41a beautiful wife, a talented father,

01:07:44has a bit of everything

01:07:46and maybe he can detach himself from it.

01:07:49But he really had passion.

01:07:51Passion, passion.

01:07:52He asked you, he knew how to tie your opponent's defenders,

01:07:56what tackles to use, what the sponsor was,

01:07:59if one was stronger than the other,

01:08:02the slower one, the faster one.

01:08:04We all knew those things,

01:08:05but he got into details we didn't even think about.

01:08:08So, it was real passion.

01:08:09We're not even halfway through your life,

01:08:12but we want to speed up a bit,

01:08:13because we'll be here for hours and we'll repeat it.

01:08:15There was the 3-0 in Manchester,

01:08:16which was the perfect game to get there.

01:08:19Do you remember anything in particular?

01:08:21No, I only remember that I have to thank everyone,

01:08:25because in the first leg,

01:08:27I made a wrong control in midfield.

01:08:29It's true that after me,

01:08:30we could have recovered and not conceded.

01:08:34But when those things happen to you,

01:08:35unfortunately, in life, there are those who have made a wrong decision,

01:08:38who have made a wrong goal, who have made a wrong move,

01:08:40it can happen to everyone.

01:08:41But we got to that game,

01:08:43which was in the same condition

01:08:48as I said before, in the final.

01:08:49In that game,

01:08:53you knew it, you knew it.

01:08:55There was too much...

01:08:56By now, we knew it.

01:08:57When you have a group that has been playing together for so many years

01:09:00and every year they change a couple of times,

01:09:05but you can feel those things.

01:09:09You understand them when you say,

01:09:11this team can't make a mistake today.

01:09:13And you couldn't make a mistake in that game.

01:09:16Lazio, it's been five years,

01:09:18you're back in the discussion,

01:09:20and you cried when you left Milan.

01:09:22How was that moment?

01:09:23There's the chance to go to Lazio.

01:09:25I say, I want to go and win a cup with a different shirt than Milan's,

01:09:29or I'll end my career and they'll say,

01:09:31yes, you won all the cups, you played in that Milan.

01:09:34Ah, but you didn't play much,

01:09:36and we saw that in reality...

01:09:38I'm just underlining it, because we looked at the numbers.

01:09:41You scored six, four, eight goals in your career every year.

01:09:45So, it's not true that you didn't score many, don't let it get to you.

01:09:48Anyway, that was my choice.

01:09:50I called Dr. Gagliani, I told him this,

01:09:52and he said, Christian, you know how I am,

01:09:56you want to go away, go away.

01:10:00But, if it were up to me, I'd end my career, I was 32,

01:10:03so ending my career would mean I'd stay in Milan for life,

01:10:06and being in the youth sector,

01:10:08in the UEFA list there's room for young people in the youth sector,

01:10:11so I'd never go away.

01:10:13But that summer, Milan took Flamini,

01:10:15so one more player, paid a lot,

01:10:18and I said, I want to go and win with a different shirt.

01:10:20I left Lazio and I chose to go.

01:10:24So, I go to Ancelotti, I tell him,

01:10:26and I have to say goodbye to the guys.

01:10:27At home, no one knew,

01:10:29not my wife, I hadn't spoken to anyone.

01:10:33So, I'm in Milan, I go to Ancelotti,

01:10:36I go there in the middle of the pitch,

01:10:38and, logically, my teammates show their affection,

01:10:41someone started crying, someone held back their tears,

01:10:44a big hug and everything,

01:10:46and it was a really...

01:10:49I think that, together with the greeting I got after Lazio,

01:10:56those were two really emotional moments for me.

01:10:59I mean, I went from there, I did the hard part,

01:11:01I said goodbye and everything, then I walk,

01:11:03I take the subway, I get in my car,

01:11:06I get out of Milanello,

01:11:08I didn't have time to get out of Milanello,

01:11:10where no one else was, I started crying,

01:11:13and I basically stopped crying

01:11:16once I got home,

01:11:18I got home crying, they asked me what I was doing,

01:11:20I said, I have a flight at 5, I have to go to Rome,

01:11:23I went to Lazio.

01:11:24And what did they tell you at home?

01:11:26I've always done this.

01:11:28Since I grew up with parents who never told me what to do,

01:11:31they always respected my choices.

01:11:33Even at home, at work,

01:11:36I never liked wives who intervened in husbands' choices,

01:11:40I don't judge these things,

01:11:43everyone is free to do what they want,

01:11:45but I decide what to do at work.

01:11:47And so, because only we, in the first person,

01:11:49know what you really need,

01:11:51what you need or what you don't need.

01:11:53Even if you try to explain it to your wife,

01:11:55to your children, to your parents,

01:11:56they can never fully understand it until they experience it.

01:11:59So, I go to Lazio.

01:12:01In the first year, I win the Coppa Italia.

01:12:04What did you win?

01:12:05No, the first year against Sampdoria.

01:12:08Then, the following summer,

01:12:09we play the Italian Super Cup with Inter in the treble,

01:12:14and we win the Italian Super Cup.

01:12:16So, in the span of a year, since I left Milan...

01:12:18You had already achieved the goal you had set for yourself.

01:12:20Very good.

01:12:22Always in the starting line-up, always happy,

01:12:24so it was something really big.

01:12:26Have you ever thought about when you got the will,

01:12:30the idea, the ambition to become a coach?

01:12:34Actually, this is a fault,

01:12:36I use the term fault with a smile, of Dr. Gagliani.

01:12:39When I stop playing because of an injury,

01:12:43I stopped playing because of an injury,

01:12:45which is not the Matuselen fault everyone is talking about.

01:12:48I had already gotten injured a year earlier.

01:12:50I did everything I could to keep playing,

01:12:54because it was my passion, I still felt good.

01:12:57I was still a Lazio star when I got injured,

01:13:00so I was fine and I wanted to keep playing.

01:13:03Unfortunately, after that injury, I couldn't do it anymore.

01:13:06I couldn't keep my feet, I tried to be the best in the world,

01:13:10but I couldn't become one.

01:13:12That Matuselen fault was just the end result

01:13:15of a calvary that had started a year earlier.

01:13:19Gagliani called me right away and said,

01:13:21when you left Milan, I told you you had to come back.

01:13:25I'd like you to be the coach of a Milan youth team next year.

01:13:31What does this make you understand?

01:13:34What club is Milan?

01:13:36Why did Milan win so much in the Berlusconi-Gagliani era?

01:13:40Why do I say that Milan is my family,

01:13:43as many people who have spent years in our family say?

01:13:49Because when you behave well,

01:13:51when you give everything for that shirt,

01:13:54which has always brought respect to people,

01:13:57and you've never behaved badly,

01:13:59they always give you back.

01:14:02So he called me and said this.

01:14:04At a certain point, I said,

01:14:05I didn't know I wanted to be a coach,

01:14:07it's not that I wanted to be a coach.

01:14:10I said, I'll see, when I quit, I'll understand,

01:14:12because I want to keep playing.

01:14:14So I started this new adventure,

01:14:16and from there, it was a succession of great things.

01:14:20In the first year, we won the league,

01:14:22we had a couple of great international tournaments

01:14:24with Real Madrid, Valencia and other teams.

01:14:26We won tournaments.

01:14:28It was a great feeling.

01:14:30The following year, they sent me to Primavera.

01:14:34I had a great time in Primavera.

01:14:36We were a team that gave us satisfaction,

01:14:39we brought out the guys, we were making them grow.

01:14:42At that moment, we were working with a goal

01:14:45which was to train young players for the first team.

01:14:47We played underage,

01:14:49so you couldn't win the league in Primavera,

01:14:51because you faced teams that were almost 10 years old,

01:14:55among all the different teams,

01:14:58and those levels are too high.

01:15:00But we were able to train a few young players.

01:15:03I signed them because it struck me,

01:15:05because I turned things around,

01:15:07I did 7 and 8 at the age level.

01:15:09Blizzari, Felicioli, Locatelli, Mastalli,

01:15:12Crociata, Zanellato, Vido, Cutrone.

01:15:14They're all players who played in Serie A or Serie B.

01:15:17Donnarumma, Calabria, Messi.

01:15:19I signed them, even if I think that's a different story.

01:15:23Calabria, yes.

01:15:25Calabria is a different story,

01:15:26because he was already an important player in Pippo's Primavera.

01:15:30Donnarumma would have become a goalkeeper

01:15:35the way he is,

01:15:36even without us.

01:15:39But I assure you that his arrival earlier

01:15:44was also thanks to Cristian Brocchi,

01:15:47even though he was a coach who forced you,

01:15:50who used violence to make you play with your feet,

01:15:53right from when you were a kid,

01:15:55and who still struggled a bit in his youth,

01:15:59in those early years,

01:16:00which was the difference that made

01:16:03the great Sinisa decide to give him this opportunity.

01:16:09So, he too, that path he took with me in those years,

01:16:13with all the methodological area he had,

01:16:16was certainly important to get him to the first team soon,

01:16:19not to make him a goalkeeper, which he would have become anyway.

01:16:23The last question I have for you, and then you, Tefra.

01:16:26What was your relationship, both human and professional,

01:16:30with Sinisa Mialovic?

01:16:31Because you worked with him, let's say, a step below him,

01:16:33because you trained in Primavera, Sinisa in the first team.

01:16:36Then you formally replaced him,

01:16:37but that's a different story from what I want to do.

01:16:41What was your approach?

01:16:43Because I imagine that in Milanello it was a daily thing.

01:16:46No, that's always a bit...

01:16:49I had a wonderful relationship with Sinisa,

01:16:52when we met and talked.

01:16:55He didn't need many players that year,

01:16:58because he had a squad with the right number.

01:17:00So, usually, these constant confrontations happen

01:17:05when the first team needs players from Primavera.

01:17:09That year, there wasn't much need for that.

01:17:13So, when we decided, we talked, we had a good relationship,

01:17:17and we'd known each other for a while.

01:17:21You know, it's too easy to say nice things about Sinisa now,

01:17:28but Sinisa was a man of his word, he was a man of his word.

01:17:33One evening, I remember that one of the first times

01:17:36an article had to come out saying that I had to go,

01:17:40that I'd been to dinner with the president,

01:17:42I went to Sinisa and he said,

01:17:44it's not true, I assure you.

01:17:47And it wasn't true, we'd written something that wasn't true.

01:17:51He said, what do you mean?

01:17:52Look, tonight there's dinner with the team,

01:17:55I'll take the guys out to eat, come to dinner with us.

01:17:58That evening, I went to dinner with him, his staff,

01:18:01and the whole first team.

01:18:02Why? Because he was loyal,

01:18:04he knew that I was a real person,

01:18:06we had a very close and sincere relationship,

01:18:09and we didn't tell each other lies.

01:18:11When there were moments when we had to tell each other

01:18:14what had happened, we talked about it.

01:18:17Speaking of the Milan Spring,

01:18:19many players, thanks to the Milan youth academy,

01:18:22many coaches didn't make it,

01:18:24because getting to Serie B and Serie A means getting there.

01:18:26Others didn't, for various reasons.

01:18:28I gave two names, Mastur, who didn't make it,

01:18:31and maybe I remember, in that spring,

01:18:33when I was commenting on it, there was Torrasi, who was very strong,

01:18:35he had a couple of injuries and didn't make it.

01:18:37So, he didn't make it, he got to Serie B,

01:18:40he'll come back, because he's a high-level player,

01:18:42but the path of young players,

01:18:46given the bad luck and maybe not being able to make the most of their qualities...

01:18:52There aren't many places.

01:18:55The qualities you need aren't just technical.

01:18:58The qualities you need aren't just physical.

01:19:01The qualities you need are also,

01:19:03in a good way,

01:19:05at the level of personality and mentality.

01:19:09Not all the players are ready to make a leap forward

01:19:14in the football of the greats.

01:19:16Not all the players are able to take that step forward,

01:19:22even from a point of view of...

01:19:27consistency,

01:19:29of life,

01:19:31of priorities.

01:19:32I've seen a lot of guys who, let's say,

01:19:35in their early years as professionals,

01:19:38they lived the pre-match life, like when they were students at AC Milan.

01:19:43Unfortunately, things change, because, as I said before,

01:19:46when you face people who do it for work,

01:19:50when you go and play in stadiums

01:19:53where people, if you make a mistake, criticize you...

01:19:58It's not like when you play in the spring,

01:20:00even if there are 2,000 people in the stands,

01:20:03they don't criticize you.

01:20:04It's not like you have the hearts to play in the spring.

01:20:08You start to live big situations.

01:20:10Not everyone has the skill, the strength and the consistency

01:20:13to come out of these situations.

01:20:16And above all, I always say, and I say this a lot to young people,

01:20:19and now I'm going to talk to young people,

01:20:22and I like it a lot,

01:20:24that you always have to build a plan A and a plan B in life.

01:20:28Plan A is not football, it's studying.

01:20:31Plan B is life.

01:20:32Why? Because if you have a plan A, which is studying,

01:20:35you need it for two reasons.

01:20:37One, because if you don't do well in football,

01:20:40you can still have a certain kind of life,

01:20:42or you can try to take certain important paths.

01:20:47Two, because nowadays,

01:20:50the thinking players are the ones

01:20:53who are more likely to get involved,

01:20:57not only on a technical level,

01:20:59but also on a management level,

01:21:03from a point of view of mental openness,

01:21:05from a point of view of being ready to go into a world

01:21:09that is completely different from what you've experienced.

01:21:11And so, the biggest difficulty for our young people is that.

01:21:15While you say these things, I thought of Pobega and Gabbia.

01:21:18But let's go a little further, in the sense of people

01:21:21who think from this point of view.

01:21:24I'm sure they weren't the strongest in their team.

01:21:27Indeed.

01:21:28You didn't think they were the strongest,

01:21:30you thought they were good players.

01:21:32But then the difference, what did it do?

01:21:36Something else.

01:21:37To wrap up, Monza in general, you did well.

01:21:40You got great results.

01:21:42Anything to add on that experience?

01:21:44It's recent, everything has changed.

01:21:46I think Monza didn't do very well.

01:21:50But when you, in the second year, after winning Serie C,

01:21:55you can't go straight to Serie B,

01:21:57it seems that things...

01:21:59Actually, winning Serie C,

01:22:01there are teams that spent the same money as Monza in Serie C

01:22:04and didn't go for four or five years.

01:22:05We went for the first real attempt,

01:22:07making an incredible journey.

01:22:10In Serie B, we got close.

01:22:13Unfortunately, Salernitana,

01:22:14with a penalty in the 96th minute,

01:22:16a match...

01:22:17Exactly, a non-match match, and we won on the board.

01:22:21It was a match where we faced a team

01:22:25that had nothing to say.

01:22:26So, in terms of energy, in terms of things,

01:22:28it was definitely two different worlds.

01:22:31Unfortunately, we came in third

01:22:33and we didn't manage to do that step

01:22:35that could have been worth something really big.

01:22:37But in terms of building the Monza club,

01:22:40I think we did a wonderful job,

01:22:42because we started out with nothing or little

01:22:45and we built something important.

01:22:48When Stroppa arrived,

01:22:50he congratulated me on everything we'd created in Monza

01:22:54and it was needed to become an important club,

01:22:58because Milan built its success on that.

01:23:01And in Monza, Verlusconi and Gagliani did the same thing.

01:23:03I'm happy to have been part of it.

01:23:05What about Palladino? Did you imagine it?

01:23:08I'll tell you the truth, I trained Palladino,

01:23:11because he arrived and was unlucky.

01:23:14Then he recovered and had to play a game

01:23:19two days before the first game he had to play.

01:23:21He had a problem again

01:23:23and so he never played with me.

01:23:27What you noticed,

01:23:28you notice in your team, the players,

01:23:31that when you explain, when you speak,

01:23:34they're attentive and they want to understand

01:23:36what you're asking them and why.

01:23:39I have exercises that I suggest as a coach,

01:23:42maybe a bit more advanced,

01:23:44maybe more studied, to change a bit,

01:23:47but I might have stolen from the coaches I had.

01:23:50And you see the players who want to be coaches

01:23:54by how they listen to you, by how they look at you

01:23:56and by the questions they ask you.

01:23:57He was one of those who watched, observed and understood.

01:24:01Cristian, I'll give you the beer, Luca.

01:24:03Let's play the pyramid game, which is very popular on social media.

01:24:06I'll tell you, chosen with Luca Fazzini,

01:24:09we put together some average players,

01:24:12a word that doesn't exist,

01:24:14because you weren't average, middle-aged,

01:24:16who was more defensive, who was more offensive.

01:24:18We discussed per minute who to put.

01:24:20Ten from the history of Milan.

01:24:22Not the present, but let's go in order.

01:24:25And when you write, you'll tell us.

01:24:27First row, second row, third row, fourth row.

01:24:30Let's start with Ambrosini.

01:24:31Where do we put him?

01:24:32In this pyramid of ten central midfielders

01:24:35who are defensive in the history of Milan.

01:24:37I don't know the others, so I'll put him in third row, Ambro.

01:24:41He's my friend, don't be offended.

01:24:42Okay, I think he's good.

01:24:44Can I write it down?

01:24:45Then we have Gattuso.

01:24:48Gattuso, I'll put him...

01:24:50Look, I can tell you.

01:24:52I'm sorry for the others, because I know there's someone strong.

01:24:55But Rino, I'll put him here.

01:24:57First place.

01:24:58First place, Gattuso.

01:24:59I don't think you're wrong, you're never wrong.

01:25:02Desailly.

01:25:04Desailly in second place.

01:25:06Then we put you in the middle of the road,

01:25:08so we can see Brocchi.

01:25:11I'd put myself here.

01:25:15For what I've been through, for what I've given,

01:25:18and for all the love I've had for these guys.

01:25:21But with respect to the great players who will be here too,

01:25:24I'll put myself here.

01:25:26So, let's say it for Spotify friends.

01:25:29You would have put Braccetto with Gattuso.

01:25:32I would have continued in my...

01:25:33A single room.

01:25:34I would have continued in my story.

01:25:37So, fourth place for Brocchi.

01:25:40Lodetti.

01:25:41Maybe young people don't remember him.

01:25:43That's why I'll put him here.

01:25:45Lodetti in third place.

01:25:47Do you remember Tonali?

01:25:49Yes, Tonali, but he didn't do much.

01:25:52We'll put him in fourth.

01:25:54Then we have great players,

01:25:55because we thought, many players,

01:25:57but who was so great, but didn't play much?

01:26:00So, we'll put you there one day young.

01:26:04Young, yes, but it's the same thing.

01:26:08They had a great career, but they didn't do much in Milan.

01:26:11So, fourth.

01:26:12Fourth, exactly.

01:26:13Van Bommel.

01:26:18Van Bommel played at a certain point

01:26:21instead of one of the three best players in the world,

01:26:26who would have been Pirlo.

01:26:27So, for this one, I'll put him in fourth.

01:26:30It's almost like it's a fault, fourth place.

01:26:34And then the last two are Rijkaard.

01:26:38Let's put him in, and then I'll tell you the last one.

01:26:41No, but Rijkaard, guys.

01:26:42I was young, he was too good.

01:26:45Yes, I'll put him here.

01:26:46Second place, second place.

01:26:48The last one is Frenkensieh.

01:26:50See, in the end, even without knowing the names...

01:26:54Gattuso, one, Desailly, Rijkaard, two.

01:26:57Ambrosini, Chessy, Lodetti, three.

01:27:00Brocchi, between one and four, and then Quaranalli.

01:27:04We left out Flamini, Muntari.

01:27:06It's not bad, it's not bad.

01:27:07It's good, knowing the names,

01:27:11I wouldn't have gone so far.

01:27:13Cristian, we're almost at the end, but our format,

01:27:15our podcast, has two more moments.

01:27:17So, we'll keep this one, because we also have others.

01:27:20So, we'll keep them with love.

01:27:22We have this little game here, I'd say one, paper.

01:27:26They're random questions, taken from the deck.

01:27:28Let's pick one and answer it. You read it out loud.

01:27:33For Christ's sake, which historical figure would you like to chat with?

01:27:37I'll tell you, Paolo Coelho.

01:27:40Can you explain it to us?

01:27:42Because since I was a kid, I've read all of his books.

01:27:47He's always given me, in my moments of greatest confusion,

01:27:54of greatest nervousness,

01:27:56he's always given me the serenity I needed,

01:27:59and I've always liked him, so I'd say him.

01:28:02Thank you very much, Cristian. We're not done yet,

01:28:04because those of you who saw the first podcast,

01:28:07and those who didn't, I'll show it to you.

01:28:09We have a magic lamp, and we can spoil

01:28:12who will come out of the magic lamp.

01:28:13Obviously, the genius will come out of the lamp.

01:28:16Savicevic.

01:28:19Can you express three desires?

01:28:22Professionally, I hope to be able to find

01:28:27the right project for me, for the person I am,

01:28:30and for what I've already done, which has been partly recognised.

01:28:35As far as my private life is concerned,

01:28:37only and exclusively the health of my children,

01:28:40which is wonderful for my children,

01:28:43as I think everyone is, I'd do anything.

01:28:46I wish them all the success,

01:28:47and I hope they can play football, they care about us too.

01:28:51As far as my private life is concerned,

01:28:55I hope to have that serenity

01:28:59that has distinguished the best years of my life.

01:29:03Thanks to that, I've been able to do

01:29:07what I've always done,

01:29:09and I think that if I could find that serenity in my life,

01:29:13I'd probably still be able to enjoy life for many more years.

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