LIVE: Offensive Training Camp Preview | Patriots Beat
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SportsTranscript
00:00:00All right, everyone, welcome in and good morning for those watching live with us to another
00:00:26live edition of the Patriots Beat podcast here on the CLNS Media Network presented by
00:00:32our wonderful friends over at Game Time.
00:00:34It is Brian Hines back as always with Alex Barth to kick off our training camp preview
00:00:40here because we are just over a week until the first Patriots training camp practice
00:00:44next Wednesday.
00:00:46And we are going to start on the offensive side of the football today.
00:00:51Tons of questions, tons of storylines on the offensive side of the ball.
00:00:55That's kind of where most people's attention is going to be when you have the number three
00:00:59overall pick playing quarterback, you have a new offensive coordinator.
00:01:02So we are going to kick off our training camp preview with that offensive side of the ball
00:01:09and just kind of start big picture here.
00:01:11We'll get into position by position, you know, some positional battles to watch throughout
00:01:16camp, some underrated guys to watch.
00:01:18But big picture, it is Alex Van Pelt's show.
00:01:23Fourth offensive coordinator in four years for the Patriots, obviously head coach with
00:01:27Gerard Mayo, but Alex Van Pelt is running this offense.
00:01:30So you know, we saw a little bit of it, what this offense might look like in the spring.
00:01:35We can obviously go back to his time in Cleveland and look at this offense.
00:01:39But what are you kind of just expecting from a big picture standpoint here with Alex Van
00:01:45Pelt and his own real version of his offense for the first time?
00:01:49Because, you know, he had Kevin Stefanski in Cleveland, but it's his show.
00:01:53So what are you kind of expecting, maybe schematically wise and those type of things from Van Pelt
00:01:57now that, you know, this is his thing, he's got his hands all over it.
00:02:01So to me, there's kind of a double edged sword here.
00:02:04First I think, because I hear two things we talk about, because he's going to run that
00:02:11zone West Coast thing that they tried installing a couple years ago under Matt Patricia.
00:02:17And I hear people say, oh, that was such a disaster.
00:02:18Why are they going back to that?
00:02:20You have a guy who's coached it his whole life installing it rather than a guy who's
00:02:24never coached on that side of the ball.
00:02:26So that's the glass half full.
00:02:27Like it is going to bare bones resemble what that offense was, but I expect it to be much
00:02:32more put together.
00:02:34The other thing you hear a lot is do they have the personnel for this?
00:02:38They've been a gap run team for a long time.
00:02:41Part of the reason they failed in 22 is they didn't have the right personnel for that offensive
00:02:45system, which is a fair critique.
00:02:48The thing about the thing there is any time you change systems and the Patriots aren't
00:02:52the first team to ever change offensive systems.
00:02:55Any time you change systems, it takes a year or two to acquire the right personnel to run
00:03:02it.
00:03:03Like you got to kind of put the pieces together as you go now.
00:03:06I think, and you could say, well, isn't that what happened to 22?
00:03:10There were other issues in 22 that went beyond the type of players they were using.
00:03:17Also they, the reality is whatever you think of Mack Jones, he was not a fit for that system.
00:03:22He was never a fit really for that's the way they were running it.
00:03:25He's a fit for the way they run it in San Francisco.
00:03:27He wasn't a fit for the way Patricia wanted to run it.
00:03:29And Drake may projects to be a better fit for the way Alec, not just as a good player,
00:03:34but the way Alex Van Pelt wants to run his offense.
00:03:36So it is going to, I think there are going to be times this year where you're going to
00:03:39be watching it and pull your hair out and say, why are they doing this?
00:03:42But it's not, Patricia was like, you're trying to build on what was a successful season the
00:03:47year before you already had something that worked.
00:03:49This is starting from the ground up.
00:03:51I think you're, you're, you're going to see, and we've talked a lot about this.
00:03:53They couldn't make all of the additions they needed to make in one off season.
00:04:00And they're, you're going to see the holes at times that, you know, we're going to be
00:04:03talking about the draft a lot during this year, just like we did last year, we're just
00:04:06not going to be doing quarterbacks.
00:04:08So I think it, it should go better because there's a much better foundation in place
00:04:14to run this than there was in 2022.
00:04:18But I don't think it's going to be like a, a perfectly smooth transition in year one.
00:04:24It just, there's, there's going to be some bumps because there just wasn't a ton of talent
00:04:30on this offense at key positions and forget getting scheme fits.
00:04:34You just got to get the players out there.
00:04:35Yeah.
00:04:36Yeah.
00:04:38So improve quarterback play.
00:04:39It should look better.
00:04:40And Drake may is a, you know, good fit.
00:04:42He's athletic enough where you can hit those bootlegs.
00:04:45You can move the pocket with them.
00:04:46You can scramble when you need it.
00:04:48And then he has the arms to kind of access all the fields, you know, van Pelt, a lot
00:04:51of it's play action attack vertically down the field.
00:04:54Drake may has the arm and the aggressiveness to do that really.
00:04:57So you hope that makes it look better, but the run game will be interesting because it's
00:05:02that zone, the wide zone that we've heard so much about, and that's something I'd imagine
00:05:08we'll see a lot of it in the summer, just because you have to rep it.
00:05:11Like Ramondre Stevenson told us before the spring practices, like that's something you
00:05:15just have to rep a lot and a lot and a lot, because it's so much like continuity for the
00:05:19offensive line.
00:05:20They have to be on the same page, you know, getting out on those zone blocks.
00:05:24But I also wouldn't be surprised if maybe we get into the regular season and it's a
00:05:29little bit more of that old downhill stuff that we've been accustomed to the last 20
00:05:34years here in new England, because right now personnel still like they have a lot of those
00:05:40big maulers, right?
00:05:41Like city.
00:05:42So Mike and when you David Andrews, even like those are more of those downhill run guys
00:05:46and Cleveland last year, like they had a lot of injuries up front and they even adjusted
00:05:51kind of down the stretch to kind of go away from that zone and a little more downhill.
00:05:55So I still think they're going to major in that kind of zone run game.
00:05:59And again, we'll see a lot of that probably on the practice fields because this is your
00:06:02time.
00:06:03This is when you have to rep it.
00:06:04But, you know, going back to that personnel up front, like I wouldn't be surprised still
00:06:07if we get into the regular season and the splits are maybe a little closer than we expect
00:06:12with more of that, like downhill kind of power run game as well there.
00:06:16Right?
00:06:17Yeah.
00:06:18Yep.
00:06:19All right.
00:06:20Should we get into some positional breakdowns here or any other big kind of overarching
00:06:26takes before we get into that?
00:06:28I think we'd probably get into the positions.
00:06:29All right.
00:06:30So we're going to start with the tight end position, Hunter Henry, obviously leading
00:06:35the way there, the reliable veteran back under contract.
00:06:40They added Austin Hooper in free agency.
00:06:42They drafted Jaheim Bell and they added a few other kind of depth guys, Mitchell Wilcox
00:06:48in free agency, Jacob Warren, a UDFA, LaMichael Pettway was here at the end of last year.
00:06:55So you assume it's Hunter Henry at the top, Austin Hooper and Jaheim Bell are probably
00:07:00the leading candidates behind them.
00:07:02You'd imagine sitting here today, those would be the three on the 53 man roster.
00:07:06But as we saw kind of throughout the spring, like Mitchell Wilcox is pretty involved and
00:07:10Michael Pettway was pretty involved, had a few impressive catches too.
00:07:14So how do you think one of those depth guys could maybe push a Jaheim Bell or an Austin
00:07:20Hooper as we get into camp here, or are you kind of rolling with the Henry Hooper Bell
00:07:26combo up top?
00:07:27I think Bell's his own thing.
00:07:29I think Jaheim Bell is like, he's cause he, we've talked about this.
00:07:35He's going to play in a niche role, right?
00:07:36And this is where we didn't see this time in the spring because they're doing very basic
00:07:40install.
00:07:41They're not going to put any of that gadget stuff in, in the spring, at least not in front
00:07:43of us.
00:07:44Um, they're going to now start to do that in camp.
00:07:48And basically I think what Jaheim Bell has to do, regardless of the other tight ends
00:07:53is prove he is worth keeping on the roster for some of that gadgety stuff and probably
00:07:58special teams.
00:07:59And I think it's him.
00:08:00He's on one of those bubble roster spots.
00:08:02Brian, you've heard me talk about the, the at-large roster spots, right?
00:08:06Where it's, it can be won by a player of any position.
00:08:08You're not talking about positional minimums.
00:08:10The tight end I'm looking at to make a maybe surprise charges, Mitchell Wilcox, the free
00:08:16agent signing from the bangles, big dude, mainly a blocking tight end, but they don't
00:08:20really have that Henry and Hooper aren't blockers.
00:08:23And if they want that guy on their roster, you know, Jacob Warren from Tennessee could
00:08:28fit the bill to the UDFA.
00:08:29But I think Wilcox is the best option.
00:08:32It's just, can he, it's hard to win as a blocking tight end and camp cause you're not doing
00:08:38a ton of contact.
00:08:40But the thing with the new practice squad rules and the elevations and things like that
00:08:43is these, these position battles, this would be a theme today.
00:08:46These position battles can extend beyond camp and into the fall.
00:08:50And I wonder if Wilcox is a guy that becomes a fringe roster player.
00:08:56Like he came on my radar cause of how involved he was in the spring.
00:08:59He's clearly a guy, I think they're going to give a chance.
00:09:01So we'll see how involved he is.
00:09:03And then it's, does he make the roster or does he go to the practice squad, get elevated
00:09:07early and then becomes a guy that, you know, gets added to the roster in a few weeks when
00:09:12they have an injury or two.
00:09:13So if bell again, it's his own, it's not say bell can't make the roster.
00:09:17He very much can.
00:09:18And maybe there's a situation where probably not week one, but by week three or four, they
00:09:22have four tight ends on the roster if you count bells, a tight end.
00:09:26But I think if you're talking about like what people think of as a traditional tight end
00:09:30three as backing up Hunter Henry and Austin Hooper as playing in a tight end, traditional
00:09:36tight end role, Mitchell Wilcox is the most likely tight end three on this team.
00:09:40Yep.
00:09:41So do you think he could push like, say Jaheim Bell, I agree.
00:09:46Like he's kind of in his own category almost, right?
00:09:49Like his role is going to be really unique.
00:09:51Like he's not going to be used like Hunter Henry.
00:09:53He's not going to be like a pure inland guy.
00:09:55He's going to move around a lot.
00:09:57So do you think like a Mitchell Wilcox could push an Austin Hooper?
00:10:01Cause you know, it was a quiet spring for Austin Hooper there.
00:10:06But you know, he's familiar with the offense.
00:10:08He's played under Alex van pelting in Cleveland.
00:10:10So do you think Wilcox could push him or we're looking at maybe the four tight ends or
00:10:16the, you know, they're comfortable.
00:10:17Maybe Wilcox get to the practice squad and they elevate them there.
00:10:21Yeah, probably more of the second, like it wouldn't be the strangest thing in the world,
00:10:25but like I said, Hooper's a van Pelt guy.
00:10:28He is good at what he does and catching the ball.
00:10:31It's it's, they do different things.
00:10:33Yeah, more, more complimentary than supplementary where, all right, we can
00:10:37have Wilcox for when we want a tight end of block, but you know, if you lose
00:10:40Hunter Henry and you don't have Austin Hooper, now you're, I mean, the tight
00:10:46end, now you're back in like 2020 levels where the tight end is just really
00:10:50not gonna be a part of your offense.
00:10:51So unless somebody like Jacob Warren or the Michael Petway emerges as like a
00:10:57real receiving threat, which I don't think is going to happen, I think
00:11:00Hooper's probably safe.
00:11:02It's just, it, it's more Wilcox against like Juju Smith Schuster, Ty
00:11:08Kwon Thornton, Jalen Rager, Isaiah Bolden, Marco Wilson.
00:11:12Um, you know, some of those offensive linemen, Antonio Maffi, maybe if they,
00:11:16you know, are they going to keep a fourth running back Terrell Jennings
00:11:19to Michael Hastie, Kevin Harris.
00:11:21That is more the competition we're talking about where, okay, you have your
00:11:25positional minimums across the board.
00:11:27You're keeping this guy, not because you need this many tight ends, but he gives
00:11:32you something that the guys you have ahead of them on the depth chart.
00:11:34Don't is that worth more than.
00:11:38And I think he'd make it over Rager.
00:11:39There's going to be like, this isn't just one spot.
00:11:41It's seven or eight of these spots, but the way you look at it, it's like he
00:11:44gives us a blocking tight end element.
00:11:45We don't really have that anywhere else versus Jalen Rager gives us a kick
00:11:50return element that is better than anybody else on the roster versus do you
00:11:55want to keep Isaiah Bolden who has some inside outside versatility at the corner
00:11:59position that maybe you don't have from some of the other guys outside of Jonathan
00:12:03Jones is going to be a starter.
00:12:04Like I'm talking about depth, right?
00:12:05So that's what I think you're looking at when it comes to Mitchell Wilcox.
00:12:11Yeah.
00:12:12Not like internal competition at the position for a roster spot.
00:12:16There'll be for playing time, but that might expand to other parts of the
00:12:20roster as you get into like those last guys on the 51, the 52, the 53rd man on
00:12:25the roster, that's where he kind of projects there, but.
00:12:29Uh, last tight end question.
00:12:31Just what are your expectations for Hunter Henry this year?
00:12:35Like leader of that group should be a pretty valuable piece to a guy like
00:12:39Drake may, or even Jacoby preset.
00:12:41Like, are you just kind of expecting Mr.
00:12:43Consistent Hunter Henry as we've seen, or, you know, he's almost 30.
00:12:47Do you think there'd be a little bit of a drop off there?
00:12:50Cause you know, the, the tight ends position, such a big part of Ampel's
00:12:54offense, we saw David Najoku have like a career year last year.
00:12:57So just as the top guy in that room, what are your kind of expectations
00:13:01for Hunter Henry entering this year?
00:13:03I think he'll bounce back.
00:13:04I don't know that he'll quite put up.
00:13:06David and joke who numbers in joke, who just has a level of athleticism
00:13:11that allows him to do some things.
00:13:12I don't think Henry's going to do Henry's a bit, you know, crisper route runner,
00:13:15but he, his three years in new England, his receiving totals
00:13:19have gone down every year.
00:13:20He did bounce back last year.
00:13:21Touchdowns.
00:13:22I actually think his touchdowns might go down cause they're gonna
00:13:24run the ball in the red zone.
00:13:25You know, he, he had six Oh three, his first year here at 50 catches for
00:13:29603 yards and nine touchdowns in 2241 for five Oh nine and two last year.
00:13:3442 for 19 and six.
00:13:37I think he's probably closer to that 2021 year, at least in terms of catches
00:13:41in yards, like 50 and 600 feels about right.
00:13:44Maybe he flirts with 709 touchdowns feels high.
00:13:48Um, I think he's probably closer to four or five.
00:13:51Uh, cause again, I just think they're going to run the ball in the,
00:13:54in the red zone.
00:13:56Um, but I, I think he has, I don't know.
00:13:59It's probably, I don't want to call it a bounce back year.
00:14:02That might be a little, little strong, but like a softer
00:14:04version of a bounce back here.
00:14:06Yep.
00:14:07Yep.
00:14:07I could see that.
00:14:08He's definitely not as explosive as a David Najoku, but he's going
00:14:11to be on the field a lot.
00:14:12He's, he's going to be a reliable passing down a lot of what in
00:14:15joke who did just to, to kind of.
00:14:17Be a little more direct about that.
00:14:18Like a lot of what in joke who did was after the catch and Henry
00:14:21just doesn't have the same.
00:14:23That's where you're looking for a guy like Shaheen bell to maybe make an impact.
00:14:27Can he take over some of those responsibilities that came after the
00:14:29catch because Henry will get himself open and he's got reliable hands.
00:14:32He's a good route runner.
00:14:33He's not going to be as elusive with the ball in his hands as
00:14:36a guy like David and Joe Lewis.
00:14:37Yep.
00:14:39All right.
00:14:39So that is the tight end position.
00:14:41Let's get over to the running back position because they're
00:14:44going to run the ball a lot.
00:14:46As you just said, we already have someone in the chat saying he is worried about
00:14:50the RB three that you got a great duo already, but the running back
00:14:54three could be a big factor.
00:14:55So that's really the main competition entering camp.
00:14:59Who will be that?
00:14:59RB three, Romandre Stevenson, Antonio Gibson locked onto the depth chart.
00:15:04They should be really involved.
00:15:05I think Antonio Gibson could be a really like sneaky ad there.
00:15:09I think he could be really, really involved.
00:15:11But after that, it's Michael hasty.
00:15:15Was busy in the spring, but you know, it's, it's, it's kind
00:15:18of a passing camp in the spring.
00:15:19And that's someone you would, you know, he's kind of has that skill
00:15:22set really involved on special teams.
00:15:24And then you have kind of three of the bigger kind of bowling ballbacks
00:15:28and Kevin Harris and a couple of UDFs and Deshaun Fenwick and Terrell Jennings.
00:15:33They didn't get to show as much in the spring.
00:15:35Cause again, no practice, no pads.
00:15:37You're not, you're not, you know, power running a lot.
00:15:39So maybe this is the time where you get the pads on, you can run the football
00:15:43a little bit more in camp and we start to see a little bit more from
00:15:46Kevin Harris and the UDF phase there.
00:15:48So what are your thoughts with, you know, those three guys and
00:15:52Michael hasty, and are you confident in one of them to take like the RB three
00:15:56spot, or do you think we're looking at maybe a late, like a Zeke Elliott
00:15:59signing, like last year with another veteran free agent?
00:16:01So I don't think you'd see a Zeke Elliott signing because it's, that
00:16:06was for like a RB two and really kind of a spell back role and he
00:16:10was going to get legitimate carries.
00:16:12I don't think you're going to be able to draw a player with that pedigree.
00:16:14Like Antonio Gibson's a good back.
00:16:16Antonio Gibson is a, is a really solid running back.
00:16:19And I don't think you're looking for somebody to supplant him.
00:16:22I think they have plans for him.
00:16:23He's going to play.
00:16:24So a guy like Ezekiel Elliott's probably a bit rich, but maybe
00:16:30somebody like a tear down and I don't have the list of, let me pull up the
00:16:33list of free agent running backs.
00:16:34But, um, I do think it's possible that, that this is, you know, somebody
00:16:40gets signed later on and maybe gets added to the mix because, you know,
00:16:44I like what I saw from Michael Hastie and he plays special team.
00:16:46So that helps.
00:16:47I like to Sean Fenwick if they just want a bowling ball guy to take the
00:16:51third and ones and the goal line carries, like he's certainly capable
00:16:54of that, take some of the more physical carries off from Andre Stevenson's plate.
00:16:59Um, but.
00:17:01There you're not, it's not going to be a super well-rounded role.
00:17:03So I look at guys like, um, you know, if they want another well-rounded guy,
00:17:08Jarek McKinnon, um, Brandon Bolden's apparently a free agent.
00:17:12That would be an interesting one.
00:17:13Like he could certainly that third running back could be that
00:17:16role to Michael Hastie though.
00:17:17He's got like those Brandon Bolden vibes in a way.
00:17:20Yeah.
00:17:20If you want that, like locker room guy though, Bolden's also bigger.
00:17:23He's more of a powerful runner if that's what they want.
00:17:25Um, Joshua Kelly, you know, would make some sense there, you know,
00:17:29Benjamin, like guys like that.
00:17:31Um, but they do like, it is important.
00:17:34It is important because remember there were games last year where
00:17:37they had one healthy running back.
00:17:39Yeah.
00:17:40And even then, like, I remember there was, I don't remember what game it was,
00:17:42but we're monitoring Stevenson was the only healthy running back
00:17:44and he was kind of limping around.
00:17:46And we were talking about in the press box, like who's the emergency back.
00:17:50Is it bro peppers?
00:17:51Is it to Mario Douglas?
00:17:52Like we didn't really know, um, Last year.
00:17:56So I ran the numbers last night.
00:17:57I actually wrote about this this morning on 98, five, the sports of.com.
00:18:00I'm going to have a series throughout the week of the biggest, uh, uh,
00:18:04camp battles coming up this summer.
00:18:06There were only seven teams that consolidated their carries to their
00:18:11top two backs more than the Patriots last year.
00:18:15And Brian, tell me what the majority of these teams have in common.
00:18:18There's one outlier Titans, Steelers, Seahawks, Raiders,
00:18:25Texans, Bengals, Panthers.
00:18:31Titans, Raiders, Steelers.
00:18:34I mean, none of them made the playoffs.
00:18:36Is that what, well, there's that I didn't even consider that there's that,
00:18:40most of them had definitive number one power backs, right?
00:18:43You have Eric Henry.
00:18:45I know people are down on nausea, Harris, like nausea, Harris,
00:18:48and Jacob Warren, right.
00:18:49In Pittsburgh, um, Seattle leaned a lot on, um, uh, Kenneth Walker
00:18:54and like, rightfully so it was good, but they leave a lot on, on Kenneth
00:18:57Walker since now he obviously had Joe Mixon, like you had, and.
00:19:01They didn't really spread the carries out maybe as much as they should.
00:19:04And a lot of those backs were banged up late in the year and that hurt them.
00:19:07You, their patrons are going to run more probably this year than
00:19:11they have the last few years.
00:19:12You need to have somebody.
00:19:14I'm not saying bench or Monterey Stevenson.
00:19:16I'm saying if he, if you can find some lower impact carries, so that's, you
00:19:21know, end of the game in a two score game, or maybe like a second in one
00:19:25where you have another shot and you just need somebody, you know, you're
00:19:28going to take a big hit and you just have somebody else to take that hit
00:19:31that you trust to fall forward.
00:19:33You might get more out of him.
00:19:36If he's carrying the ball, call it 20 times a game.
00:19:38Instead of 25, you may get more out of those 20 carries than the 25 by the
00:19:42end of the year, because he's going to be fresher, but you need other options
00:19:46and it's an injury prone position.
00:19:48So Antonio Gibson will do most of that, but you want to keep him fresh too.
00:19:51And what happens because you're not going to get 17 games
00:19:54from Stevenson and Gibson.
00:19:55You're just, that would be so unlikely horseshoe up the ass kind of thing
00:19:59that neither you're running backs get hurt.
00:20:01Who else is going to be in there to help carry the workload.
00:20:05You don't need an all pro, right?
00:20:07You don't need Zeke.
00:20:09You just need someone you can trust.
00:20:11And I think what we're going to find out in this camp is do they at least think
00:20:16they can trust any of to Michael Hastie, Kevin Harris, Terrell Jennings, to Sean
00:20:20Fenwick, or do they have to go outside the organization to find
00:20:23somebody else for that role?
00:20:24Yep.
00:20:25Yeah.
00:20:26That RB three is the main competition there.
00:20:28And it could again be an external edition, but talking about those splits, how do
00:20:33you envision this backfield shaking up?
00:20:37Because I've seen a lot, like since they signed Antonio Gibson, like, Oh, he's
00:20:41their new third down back, right?
00:20:43Like he has the receiver background, but I think it's going to be like,
00:20:47he'll be more involved in that.
00:20:48And we've talked a lot the last.
00:20:50You know, year plus like rotate drives, like have running backs, rotate drives.
00:20:55Do you think it's going to be that, or how do you think they'll mix
00:20:57and match these guys?
00:20:59I pulled up Cleveland's, uh, snap counts last year.
00:21:02And after Nick Chubb went down, Jerome Ford was their lead guy.
00:21:06He played like 50% of the snaps.
00:21:08And then they had Kareem hunt, who was right around 30% of the snaps.
00:21:11So that could be your remanded Gibson.
00:21:13And then they had Pierre strong old friend who was like 13, 14% of the snaps.
00:21:18So is that like a shakeout that you could see kind of unfolding here?
00:21:23Yeah, that's probably something in there like a 50, 30, 20 kind of thing,
00:21:27maybe 50, 40, 10.
00:21:29Um, I think it's more about people want to know, like, you know, who's
00:21:32going to be the third down back.
00:21:33I think that dynamic leaves with the old coaching staff.
00:21:38I think they're going to be more, whether they have set counts, whether
00:21:43it's just by fatigue, whether it's Stevenson gets two drives for every
00:21:47one of Gibson and they sprinkle in the other guy where they need, whether
00:21:50they're rotating within drives, like.
00:21:53Both Stevenson and Gibson are very well-rounded.
00:21:56They can both run between the tackles.
00:21:58They can both run outside of the tackles.
00:22:00They can both catch the football and the plus side to that.
00:22:03So there's pros and cons to, to both going situationally, which is what
00:22:08they did in the past and just rotationally, which is what I think
00:22:11they're going to do now, when you go situationally, you can sort of tailor
00:22:15certain things towards player skillsets, right?
00:22:18James white was able to focus so much on receiving it.
00:22:21It made him a great player.
00:22:23When you go rotationally rotationally can actually be a little harder
00:22:27to do because you need a guy that's good at everything.
00:22:29And those guys are, can be a little harder to find, but there's a level
00:22:33of predictability that goes away with that.
00:22:37Remember the Sony Michelle year or one of the Sony Michelle years,
00:22:40there was like 80% of the time he was on the field, they were running
00:22:43the football and it became this tell and they could do it because
00:22:45the offensive line ruled, but they don't have that offensive line now.
00:22:49So you lose that element of, okay, this backs in the game.
00:22:53That gives us a good idea of what they're going to do.
00:22:56There's again, there's pros and cons to both, but they're built
00:22:58right now to go rotationally.
00:23:00And I think that makes, that makes a lot of sense.
00:23:03If you know, I honestly don't have a preference.
00:23:05I think you tailor it to your personnel and the personnel they have right now.
00:23:08I think you're wasting.
00:23:11You're, you're wasting the abilities of one of the, of both players.
00:23:14You're wasting abilities of both players.
00:23:16If you're going to just pin them into a single role, I want them both doing a lot.
00:23:21Yep.
00:23:22Yeah.
00:23:22I think, you know, you said it best, like the way that we've got to learn
00:23:27like a traditional third down back, the James whites of the world, like
00:23:30that's probably not how the, how they're going to shake this out anymore.
00:23:33It's going to be more rotation.
00:23:35These guys, they can do a lot of things.
00:23:36So they're going to let them do a lot of things.
00:23:39And again, like Antonio Gibson, I I'm really excited for what his, you know,
00:23:43the speed that he can bring to the backfield, his receiver background, like.
00:23:48Maybe even lining up out wide at times, like not just a traditional running back.
00:23:51I think they can have a good plan for him and can move him around a lot.
00:23:56So those two guys, Gibson or Mondra cemented at the top there.
00:23:59We'll kind of see throughout camp how that RB three spot shakes out.
00:24:03That's the spot to watch in the competition, but let's take a very quick break.
00:24:08We'll hear from our friends over at game time, and then we'll jump back
00:24:11with the big three positions and wide receiver offensive line and quarterback.
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00:25:44All right.
00:25:44Wide receiver, busy position group, 12 guys on the roster
00:25:50right now, and someone asked Ray asked in the chat here,
00:25:54will Alex Van Pelt run two tight end sets?
00:25:57Cleveland was close to the top.
00:26:00I want to say like top seven or eight last year and three wide receiver sets.
00:26:04So these receivers, they have a lot of them
00:26:07and they're going to be on the field a lot.
00:26:08They run a lot of three wide receivers, 11 personnel, so
00:26:13Paul Baker, the two rookies locked on to Mario Douglas, locked onto the roster.
00:26:18Kendrick Bourne, if healthy, we'll see, you know, everything that
00:26:23Bourne and Gerard Mayo have said seems like he's going to be ready
00:26:26by the start of the regular season.
00:26:28We'll see maybe the start of training camp
00:26:30and then K.J.
00:26:31Osborne, the free agent addition, we'd assume would make the roster,
00:26:35but it's a one year deal.
00:26:36So maybe, you know, if a young guy comes out of, you know, a caisson
00:26:40booty or someone emerges, they could make a move there.
00:26:42But that's probably your top five.
00:26:44And then the spot for the six, if there's a spot for a six guy,
00:26:49that that's where this competition really kicks off.
00:26:51And it's caisson booty.
00:26:53It's Jalen Rager. It's Taekwon Thornton.
00:26:56It's Juju Smith Schuster.
00:26:57They have a bunch of guys there.
00:26:59If so, first off, do you just think they'll keep six guys?
00:27:03And if they do, I mean, I think we're in a kind of agreement
00:27:07that Jalen Rager has the upper hand because of the special team's value.
00:27:10But could you see someone besides Jalen Rager
00:27:14grabbing that six spot if they do keep a six wide receiver?
00:27:18I yeah, I think you have to look at it as those guys.
00:27:22And you mentioned the five that we think are locks, right?
00:27:25Born Douglas, the two rookies and Osborne.
00:27:30You got to look at it as the guys outside of that group
00:27:34are competing as if there is a fifth spot, right?
00:27:36And if there isn't, the competition begins, they want to camp.
00:27:40And then whether or not that spot open is to be determined,
00:27:42whether it's the fifth spot because of injury or born's not ready
00:27:45or it's the sixth spot.
00:27:45Like, I think that's what you're looking at.
00:27:47We get it, Brian.
00:27:47You're wearing a Bruins shirt at the.
00:27:51And I'm with you, I think Rager is the inside track because.
00:27:55Born's going to play if he's healthy.
00:27:57He's your best receiver, best established receiver,
00:27:59like the rookies could be better, but he's your best established receiver.
00:28:02Douglas is going to play.
00:28:03He's your best playmaker.
00:28:06The we I think the rookies are going to play Gerard Mayo.
00:28:09Nelly Wolf talked about playing the kids.
00:28:11So you figure those guys are going to play.
00:28:15So odds are, even if it is Juju, who's like an established NFL veteran,
00:28:20there's not a ton of playing time for this.
00:28:23And then Osborne, if he makes him a playwright.
00:28:24So for this fifth or sixth role, there's not a ton of playing time on offense.
00:28:28You're a backup.
00:28:29So you need to be able to contribute in other ways.
00:28:33And we saw it in the spring.
00:28:34Juju Smith Schuster, no special teams, Taekwon Thornton, brief
00:28:39attempt at special teams, and then went back to doing side work
00:28:41during special teams periods.
00:28:43Jalen Rager, great kicker, Turner, and also has some experience at Gunner.
00:28:47I don't know that he's going to win that job, but could he be a backup Gunner?
00:28:51Like you, you gotta use him in a pinch.
00:28:53Yeah, I think he could do that.
00:28:54I feel better about him doing it than, than Juju or Taekwon, right?
00:28:57So I think he has the inside track there.
00:29:00The question is just whether or not that spot exists.
00:29:04The other thing about Juju, and maybe this applies to Taekwon too, you can
00:29:07maybe get them on the practice squad.
00:29:09And between those two, I, I, Juju's not gonna be on the practice squad.
00:29:14Like if he's not on the roster, he's not here.
00:29:15I'd be surprised if he takes a practice squad role.
00:29:17I'd be surprised if he gets to the practice squad, but Thornton and Rager.
00:29:21There is an ongoing competition.
00:29:23I think even if there isn't that six spot, fifth spot, whatever, you know, to
00:29:29get to the practice squad and then who's the first one that gets the call either
00:29:33as an elevation or as a roster signing from the practice squad, no, uh,
00:29:37Keisha on booty hope there.
00:29:40It's just, it's weird.
00:29:41Cause we don't know what his situation is.
00:29:43Right?
00:29:43Yeah.
00:29:44Like we don't, is, is he going to face discipline from the league?
00:29:47Um, things like that.
00:29:49And then he just hasn't been, he's had flashes, but he hasn't been consistent.
00:29:53He could absolutely make the practice squad.
00:29:55I could see that.
00:29:56I just think if he's making the roster, there's bigger issues
00:30:02about the guys in front of them.
00:30:04If that makes sense.
00:30:05It's the consistency.
00:30:07Cause we know we've talked about the high end talent since like he got drafted, he
00:30:11saw it at LSU and you know, the last mini camp practice, he's scoring three
00:30:15touchdowns, looks great with Drake may, but you just don't see it, uh, consistently
00:30:19So honestly, like the best thing for him might be if he gets a two game suspension
00:30:24for the ongoing gambling, uh, you know, investigation, and then they have to kind
00:30:29of keep them around for two weeks.
00:30:30Right.
00:30:31And he's on the roster and then maybe someone gets hurt or something.
00:30:34So, uh, we'll, we'll see what that, but yeah, like if it's going to be a six, if
00:30:39they're going to keep six wide receivers, you'd need like the special team's value
00:30:43is so apparent there because you know, even if it's guy like Juju, like the
00:30:48skillset is so similar to Kendrick Bourne and you know, Jalen Polk, and even a little
00:30:53bit of pop Douglas, like just like that role.
00:30:56So you'd imagine that guy, they'd want him to play special teams and
00:30:59it's really only Jalen Rager.
00:31:01He he's the only one, again, they, they tried Taekwon Thornton.
00:31:05Probably not going to work like as a gunner.
00:31:07Like, can he tackle, can he hold up that way?
00:31:09And then Juju just wasn't doing any special teams work at all.
00:31:12Like that image of him working with Tyler Hughes.
00:31:15Well, 11 other wide receivers are working special teams still kind of stands out.
00:31:20So you'd imagine it's Rager.
00:31:21You saw the kick returnability last year and now, you know, kick returns
00:31:25going to be so important with the new rules.
00:31:27Uh, you'd imagine he has the upper hand there, but that big five, assuming
00:31:32Kendrick Bourne's healthy, like what's your, if they're three wide receivers
00:31:37are on the field, is it born pop?
00:31:39And then one of the rookies, is that like your, your top three going into the season?
00:31:44Yeah.
00:31:45Yeah.
00:31:45You're rotating the rookies and pop Douglas and, and kind of mixing and
00:31:49matching that, but I think your top three are, it depends how they want to do it.
00:31:54Like if you want a true X, then it's Baker with Polk rotating with.
00:31:59Born at the Z and then pop Douglas in the slot.
00:32:03Now, sometimes the van Pelt offense, like there is an X by definition,
00:32:07but it's more of a second Z type.
00:32:09So then you go Polk and born probably on the field together with pop Douglas
00:32:14and you're taking pop off the field in like red zone situations, or just when
00:32:19you want to throw a jump ball, deep ball.
00:32:21And that's where Baker comes in.
00:32:22Is that more true X?
00:32:24Yep.
00:32:25Yeah.
00:32:26So I don't know what are your expectations, you know, beyond
00:32:30playing time for the rookies?
00:32:32What would you say?
00:32:33Like, I think Polk's going to be really involved from the start just
00:32:36because he's probably one of their better run blockers at the position.
00:32:39And that's, you know, big for a team that's going to want to run the ball.
00:32:42So like, I think he's going to be on the field a ton.
00:32:45We'll see with Baker, maybe that's more, as you just said, like kind of a
00:32:49situational type of thing to at least start the year, maybe, you know, he has
00:32:53a really, he earns more playing time going down the, down the line, but just
00:32:57what are your expectations for those two guys kind of for the summer and then
00:33:02even, you know, early in the season there.
00:33:04I mean, for the summer, you, you, you just want to see him show they belong.
00:33:07You know, I, it's going to be tough for him.
00:33:08Cause the patrons have a ton of good corners and they're going to be
00:33:11facing really good competition.
00:33:12That should help, but like, it could be tough going for them early on.
00:33:15They're also not going to get to consistently work with one
00:33:17corner, uh, or with one quarterback.
00:33:20But Baker is situational.
00:33:21Like, I think that's what he'll end up being this season.
00:33:23I, I think you want to see something from, from Jalen Polk.
00:33:27You want to see him have a DeMario Douglas type season.
00:33:30I don't know that he needs to come out and have like the greatest season
00:33:33ever by a rookie wide receiver.
00:33:34But he was a guy they, for lack of a better word, maneuvered
00:33:38to get in the draft, right.
00:33:39They moved down and you know, there's been some reporting that maybe
00:33:42he wasn't their first choice, but they moved down, they let other
00:33:44players go ahead, they ended up with him.
00:33:47Um, you want to see him justify that you want to see him, you know, maybe
00:33:51be better than some of those guys that they passed on and really produce.
00:33:55And I think we, I think it was on the show.
00:33:56We talked about this a couple of weeks ago, right.
00:33:58That I don't need him to be the, you know, ACE coverage dictating.
00:34:04Number one, I don't need him to be Jamar chase.
00:34:06I don't need him to be DK Metcalf.
00:34:08Can he show he can maybe be like a Tyler Lockett type to get, you know,
00:34:13really bold T Higgins, that strong complimentary second receiver.
00:34:18I think that's like a realistic high end hope for him is that,
00:34:23all right, we have him.
00:34:25He's going to be the guy that eats when everybody's focusing on player a, and
00:34:29now you just have to go out in the off season, right.
00:34:31And find out who player a is.
00:34:32So that's like, if he can get there, I'll feel, I'll feel pretty good about it.
00:34:37If he, if he can, and maybe not, he's, he, he won't be there this year
00:34:40cause they don't have player.
00:34:41But if he can at least kind of show he's on that path, I think
00:34:46that would be very encouraging.
00:34:48Yep.
00:34:49And, uh, T Higgins hit in the open market next, next summer, unless
00:34:52or next spring, unless they franchise tag him again, but, or, or, you know,
00:34:56he's saying he won't sign extension.
00:34:58Who knows?
00:34:58Oh yeah.
00:34:59We we've got a long way to go a long way to go.
00:35:03Um, but yeah, that's, uh, pretty much the receiver room.
00:35:08Someone did ask in the chat, how worried are you about pop?
00:35:12I guess pop specifically what staying healthy, like that's the big thing with
00:35:17him, I'd say like he was their best receiver in the spring, but now, you
00:35:21know, two, three concussions last year, like that's a fair thing to be concerned
00:35:27about, is that something, uh, you're worried about there with pop entering
00:35:30year two here?
00:35:31Absolutely.
00:35:32Uh, you know, he, he, he looks like he bulked up, so that's helpful, but he
00:35:37does need to do a better job of protecting himself and he can do some
00:35:40unbelievable things in the open field, making guys miss.
00:35:42And I don't want to see him stop doing that.
00:35:44But I think if there was one weakness in his game, we saw it, both the injuries
00:35:49and, you know, the fumble against Miami, he's got to learn when to kind of give
00:35:52up on a play and, you know, live, live for the next play.
00:35:55I think if he can get.
00:35:57A better concept of that, which is not uncommon for a young player.
00:36:00If he can get a better concept of that and do a better job protecting himself
00:36:04in the open field, he should be in good shape, but he is somebody you look at
00:36:07and kind of say, all right, you know, how, how many games are they going to get
00:36:11from him, the games he plays should be high impact, but how many games are
00:36:14they going to get out of them?
00:36:16Yep.
00:36:17All right.
00:36:17That's the wide receiver position again, big competition with three, four guys for
00:36:23that six spot, and then the top five with Osborne born pop, the two rookies, those
00:36:29guys seem locked into a roster spot.
00:36:32They're bearing, you know, health for Kendrick Bourne, but we'll kind of see
00:36:36how that, the depth, the depth guys in the practice squad guys shake out
00:36:41there throughout the summer.
00:36:43So let's talk some offensive line.
00:36:46The big question mark remains at left tackle.
00:36:50Is it even a competition anymore?
00:36:51Or is it just well core for like, I would say this, it's probably easier,
00:36:56easier for us to start with what is solidified than what isn't true.
00:36:59David Andrews, David Andrews is going to start at center.
00:37:03Mike going, when is going to start somewhere on the right side and on the
00:37:07right side and chooks and city.
00:37:09So we'll start somewhere.
00:37:11And chooks, the core four will start at left tackle.
00:37:15And when I say like, start the season, it seems like they're
00:37:20going to give him a chance.
00:37:23How the big question with him is how does he look there?
00:37:27And the other important question that we can't sleep on as much as we've talked
00:37:30about Brian, all the different permutations of the Patriots starting
00:37:34offensive line, we haven't mentioned that all the backup jobs are wide open
00:37:39to, like, we don't know who any of the backups are and that backup left tackle
00:37:44spot is going to be massive because what a chooks, a core four can't do it.
00:37:48Who is the next guy up?
00:37:49And that's unclear right now.
00:37:52Is it Caden Wallace?
00:37:55They talked after the draft that he might be a left tackle, but it seemed
00:37:59like throughout the spring he was at right.
00:38:00And if they're going to kick Michael and window inside,
00:38:02they may need him at right.
00:38:03So I, I would, I wouldn't feel great if it doesn't work out with the core
00:38:08four moving Wallace to the left side cold.
00:38:11Yeah.
00:38:11Cause if there's a chance of when who's going to play right guard, you
00:38:14need Wallace repping at right tackle.
00:38:16Okay.
00:38:16So he's out of the picture that basically leaves you with where
00:38:20they were last year, minus one or minus two.
00:38:22They don't have Trent Brown who played there last year.
00:38:24They don't have Conor McDermott who played there last year.
00:38:27So you're looking at Calvin Anderson.
00:38:28Who's coming off some pretty significant health stuff and good
00:38:31for him for getting back, but like what kind of shapes he in and
00:38:35vitarian low, who was better at left tackle than right tackle last year,
00:38:40but it still wasn't great.
00:38:42So we'll see what shoots core four.
00:38:43It looks like it left tackle.
00:38:44That is going to be a major question at camp, but don't lose track of the fact
00:38:49that his backup is a pretty important role too, because there's a good chance
00:38:54that they may need to go to that guy.
00:38:57Yeah.
00:38:58So who would be your front runner there right now?
00:39:00Like I would say Calvin Anderson, just, I think probably Anderson.
00:39:05I liked what I saw from him last year.
00:39:06I wish they played him at left more last year in the summer
00:39:08before obviously he got sick, but, um, probably Anderson.
00:39:13Yeah, I'd say he's shown the most elsewhere.
00:39:17Like, like he actually got some good run in Denver before we signed here
00:39:20and he had some impressive moments.
00:39:21And if you want to talk about this zone type of run game, you
00:39:24need some athletic tackles.
00:39:26Like that's his kind of, that's his play style, right?
00:39:29Like he's an athletic guy.
00:39:30He could get out there.
00:39:32Uh, so maybe, you know, that helps him kind of take that, that third, third
00:39:36tackle spot, but, uh, yeah, I said like at the top, like, I don't know if a
00:39:40core four is even a roster battle now because they moved Caden wall.
00:39:45So it looks to the right side and then it's, you know, all these guys
00:39:48that were here last year and it wasn't great now, obviously the situation
00:39:52wasn't, you know, good for Calvin Anderson working through all those,
00:39:56those health issues.
00:39:57So if he's, he seems like good, he seems healthy.
00:40:00So maybe he could make a push, but it looks like.
00:40:03True.
00:40:04It's a core for, he's definitely going to start there in the summer.
00:40:07And if he can hold up or not, that's going to be such a big question
00:40:10mark at the left tackle spot.
00:40:12But, um, yeah, it's city.
00:40:15So it'd be a, you'd imagine left guard based off what we saw in the
00:40:19spring and then David Andrews, and then going to the right side, you know,
00:40:23we heard in the off season, they paid Michael Wenu to play right tackle.
00:40:27And then we get out on the spring practice fields and, you know, two
00:40:29or three sessions in they're moving them to right guard, they're
00:40:32trying to find this best five.
00:40:34So kind of sets up like a roster battle of, you know, like a Nick
00:40:39Leverett versus Caden Wallace.
00:40:41Do who do they feel better?
00:40:42Like, would you rather have Caden Wallace at right tackle and Michael
00:40:45Wenu at right guard or a Nick Leverett at right guard and the
00:40:47Michael Wenu at right tackle.
00:40:49So what's your kind of ideal situation for the right side?
00:40:53And specifically where do you see Mike on when you kind of started in the season?
00:40:57I mean, I think they're at their best to phone when who can play tackle
00:41:02because then it frees you up to get Caden Wallace work on the left
00:41:05side and protect you there.
00:41:06But yeah, it's, it's, it's tough.
00:41:10Cause I don't know that you feel great about any of these cards going in.
00:41:13I I've said this, I think it's something that's going to
00:41:14continue into the regular season.
00:41:15I don't think we're going to get the answers on this to come
00:41:17camp, but, uh, come the end of camp.
00:41:19But if you have to put Michael Wenu inside, I think you got to play
00:41:23Caden Wallace at right tackle.
00:41:25Cause again, I don't, you know, after him, I don't love the options.
00:41:29There's probably Anderson again, Tyrone Wheatley.
00:41:34And I think that's it.
00:41:35So there's they're, they're, they're just very thin all over a tackle.
00:41:42So if you can keep Mike on when to a tackle, it just adds depth at a very
00:41:46important position where you have none.
00:41:48Yeah.
00:41:49Yeah.
00:41:49I think their best five on paper.
00:41:52We'll see if it translates is probably big Mike at right guard and
00:41:56then Caden Wallace at right tackle.
00:41:58It's just probably your five most talented guys.
00:42:01And then they're all playing their natural position or mostly
00:42:03playing their natural position.
00:42:05You know, it's still, it's still a flip.
00:42:07So, uh, we'll see how that shakes out.
00:42:10Like that's
00:42:11kind of a flip.
00:42:11Like he played left in college, but he hasn't played it in the NFL.
00:42:15It's, um, it, that one's tough cause it probably is their best five, but it
00:42:20also really leaves them with very little depth, very little depth.
00:42:24So you wanted the best five blocking.
00:42:26That's not to say, well, we need to make sure we have backup.
00:42:29So we'll make our offensive line worse, but it's, I mean, they really did not.
00:42:34They, they, they put themselves in a tough spot with the offensive line
00:42:37with the way the off season went.
00:42:39So do you think someone like Leighton Robinson, who they picked fourth round
00:42:44fringe top 100 pick, could he make a push here and then maybe you're feeling
00:42:49more comfortable, okay.
00:42:50If he's right guard, we can play Michael window at right tackle.
00:42:53And now we have Caden Wallace to maybe push troops core for he's
00:42:58got to actually rep that left tackle for that to happen.
00:43:00But you know, could Leighton Robinson factor in even not as a starter, but
00:43:04maybe a good depth piece to make you feel a little bit more confident about
00:43:07maybe your interior there and freeing up Mike on window, his versatility.
00:43:11You hope so.
00:43:12I mean, like you said, basically top 100 pick, you take a guard in that spot.
00:43:15You want him to start year one, maybe not week one, but year one.
00:43:18And you want to see he's trending towards that.
00:43:20So if you know, you can have Leighton Robinson and city.
00:43:23So as you're starting guards, that, that makes things a lot easier.
00:43:30Oh, I think you're muted, Brian.
00:43:34Are you muted?
00:43:34Or did I lose sound?
00:43:35I can't hear you.
00:43:37Can you hear me now?
00:43:37Yeah, there you go.
00:43:38Oh, I got something in my mic disconnected.
00:43:40I don't know what happened there.
00:43:41It's like with my camera, the plugs, you got me though.
00:43:45Yeah, I got you.
00:43:46Uh, yeah.
00:43:48Leighton Robinson, like didn't see, he wasn't rotating in with
00:43:51like the top guys in the spring.
00:43:53But again, he's one of those more powerful guys.
00:43:56So maybe that, that flashes more when the pads come on and he
00:43:59can build some momentum there.
00:44:00So, um, but yeah, it's such a big question mark, how it shakes out.
00:44:06Like you said, not only that the top unit, but the backups too.
00:44:09So any other, like those depth guys, we saw Antonio Moffy getting some
00:44:14work at center along with guard.
00:44:18He's probably in the camp where like, you got to do everything just
00:44:21to make a push for this team.
00:44:23Didn't see a lot of Jake Andrews seemed like he was dealing with like a lower
00:44:26leg injury or something throughout the spring, Nick Leverett, they signed in
00:44:30free agency, he was working pretty with the top unit at times that guard
00:44:35and, you know, rotating in back at center.
00:44:37So any of those other depth guys you're kind of watching, I saw some people
00:44:41in the chat talk about Liam Hornadel, the UFL guy they signed late, uh, in
00:44:45the soft season, so any of those other depth guys you're watching that maybe
00:44:49could string some practices together and make you feel a little bit more
00:44:52confident about, about those depth guys.
00:44:55Well, I've seen a lot of people talk about four Nadella's like some savior.
00:44:58I mean, he can, he's not a bad player, but he'll, you know,
00:45:02he'll compete for a guard spot.
00:45:03I don't think he's playing tackle in the NFL.
00:45:05His arms aren't long enough.
00:45:06Um, we'll see, I guess what, what he brings again.
00:45:11I think he's in the mix of guard, but they, they just drafted so many
00:45:16guards last couple of years, Lane Robinson, Antonio Moffitt city.
00:45:19So Jake Andrews is interior that if it goes to a guy, they, they
00:45:23got to pull from the UFL.
00:45:24That's really concerning.
00:45:25Um, and I mean, I guess along the same lines, like Michael Jordan got some
00:45:29run this spring and he's got 29 games of NFL starting experience under his belt.
00:45:34It's a really, really young group, really young group.
00:45:38If you think about it, right.
00:45:39Because let me pull up the, pull up the full group.
00:45:42So I'd make sure I don't miss anybody, but they don't have a ton of NFL
00:45:46experience among their, their guard options outside of, you know, the, the
00:45:51clear cut starters, because Jake Andrews second NFL season four Nadella's
00:45:55are essentially a rookie Michael Jordan.
00:45:58Nick Leverett has started games.
00:45:59Moffy's in his second year.
00:46:00Lane Robinson's a rookie city.
00:46:02So's in his second year, Charles Turner's a rookie, and even Cole
00:46:06strange is going into his third year, but he's missed a ton of time due to injury.
00:46:09So I think Michael Jordan, how many starts does Nick Leverett have?
00:46:12I don't have that number off top of my head.
00:46:13Nick Leverett has 16 starts.
00:46:15Michael Jordan's their most experienced guard, unless you count Michael and
00:46:19when, but whatever he is like Michael Jordan is a top two, most experienced
00:46:23guard, if they feel they need a veteran in the room, don't sleep on him
00:46:27pushing for maybe a depth, a depth spot.
00:46:30All right.
00:46:31Uh, last O-line question I got for ya.
00:46:34Do we see Cole strange at all this season?
00:46:38Yeah.
00:46:38Cause they, they got to see where he's at.
00:46:40They, you don't want them coming into camp next year, cold
00:46:43contract year, all of that.
00:46:44So I think he'll play at some point.
00:46:47You know, I've seen people say, is this the last we've seen
00:46:49of Cole strange and Patriots uniform?
00:46:51I think we'll see him again.
00:46:53Now, do they put him in for a couple of weeks?
00:46:55He doesn't look good and that's it.
00:46:56Like that's very possible.
00:46:58I wouldn't rule that out.
00:46:59I wouldn't rule out this being his last season as a Patriot, but
00:47:02I, they're going to give him a shot.
00:47:04And it could also just be like, again, they don't have a ton at guard.
00:47:07They may need to give him a shot just to see what it looks like.
00:47:10So I think we see him again.
00:47:12I don't know how much, but I do.
00:47:13I don't think he's like done.
00:47:15Yeah.
00:47:16It's tricky because if you had to pick a spot on the offensive line, you're
00:47:23confident in, I guess you would say the interior, right?
00:47:25Like if it's city, David Andrews and
00:47:28center, like get chest centered, like David Andrews were confident in.
00:47:31But if you could see one spot, I guess, performing well in the regular
00:47:36season, like if it's Michael window at right guard, you you're fairly,
00:47:40you're more confident in the interior than the tackle.
00:47:42So, you know, if those three guys are playing well, like how does
00:47:46Cole strange factor in there?
00:47:47Like, are they going to take one of those guys off the field, but maybe
00:47:50it's moving Michael window back outside.
00:47:53Like, we're probably going to have that conversation at some point if
00:47:56the tackles aren't playing well, then Cole strange would come in at that spot.
00:48:00So it'll be interesting.
00:48:01He's obviously going to miss a good amount of time here.
00:48:04It sounds like with that, you know, coming off that knee injury.
00:48:06So he could factor into the equation late in the season.
00:48:11You know, they move, when did they move big Mike outside last year?
00:48:14I like week five, six, I think it was a little later than that.
00:48:19So maybe like that same timeframe.
00:48:21Yeah.
00:48:21This year, if Cole strange is back and healthy, they could move
00:48:25on window back outside, but this is such a, it's annoying.
00:48:29It's still a question mark, especially, you know, the tackle positions,
00:48:32but it'll be a big part of, you know, what to watch during training camp.
00:48:37Scott Peters will have his hands full trying to find that best five and we'll
00:48:41see how that kind of shakes out.
00:48:44And it transitions into the last position, the quarterback spot, because
00:48:48they could impact when we see Drake may, and there's kind of two internal
00:48:53competitions, I would say a quarterback.
00:48:55They need a starter and it's probably going to be Jacoby
00:48:58percent, who was the starter in the spring versus Drake may.
00:49:01And then Joe Milton and Bailey's happy could kind of be in their
00:49:05own competition for a third quarterback on the roster, if they even keep
00:49:08a third quarterback on the roster.
00:49:10So, uh, let's start with, let's start with zappy and Joe Milton, Joe
00:49:16Milton, two obvious different players.
00:49:19Joe Milton's got all the tools.
00:49:21Bailey's happy though, has some starting experience, uh, in the league.
00:49:24What do you want to see from, I guess, both of those guys, um, you know,
00:49:29zappy and a new offense and just Milton in his first, first training camp here.
00:49:33What do you want to see from them and what do they kind of need to do
00:49:36to separate from, from each other?
00:49:38Uh, I think with Milton, you just need to see development.
00:49:41I don't know that he needs to look NFL ready, but you need to see
00:49:43that he's on the right track.
00:49:45Uh, whatever that entails, like that could go a number of different ways,
00:49:49but basically he needs to look better in the 13th practice than
00:49:53he did in the first practice.
00:49:54I think that's, that's the big thing.
00:49:56I don't know his happy.
00:49:58I don't know.
00:49:58And it's not like an insult to him.
00:50:00I just don't know what his place is for where the Patriots are at right now.
00:50:04Jacoby versets your veteran, you know, week one starter leader in the room.
00:50:08Drake may is the future.
00:50:10Joe Milton's the super toolsy physically gifted project player.
00:50:16Zappy is what, like, what, what are you keeping him for?
00:50:20You're not keeping him for his locker and presence.
00:50:22You're not keeping him for his raw physical ability.
00:50:25I mean, he's a solid backup, I guess, if you want him to backup
00:50:28Drake may down the road, but.
00:50:30He's going into year three.
00:50:32So next year he's going to a contract here and you generally
00:50:34don't pay backup quarterbacks.
00:50:36You go and you draft another one.
00:50:37So at most you're keeping him this year as a fourth quarterback
00:50:41to be a backup next year.
00:50:42So I think what you're looking for him is to ball out in the preseason
00:50:45and hopefully pick up some trade value.
00:50:47I think that's what you're looking at from Bailey's happy.
00:50:49Cause there's just, they're moving on.
00:50:50They're moving on.
00:50:51They're reshaping the quarterback room.
00:50:52Mack Jones is out.
00:50:53You would think Zappy would follow him.
00:50:56Uh, it's just, I wonder if they're waiting to see if they can get something.
00:50:59Yeah, just the way they reconstructed this room, you said it best.
00:51:03There's just no role for him going forward, like long-term, even
00:51:07short-term with Jacoby percent here.
00:51:09Like he's not going to be starting games.
00:51:11And if it's not Jacoby, you'd assume that's because Drake may, uh, beats him out.
00:51:15So it's tough to see a role from Zappy.
00:51:18Uh, you know, maybe like early in the spring, you could say like, if they
00:51:22really weren't confident in playing Drake may, like they didn't want to
00:51:25play him at all, rookie year, like, okay, Zappy could be your primary
00:51:28backup for Jacoby percent, but we haven't got that vibe at all
00:51:31with, you know, Drake maze timeline.
00:51:33So it's just tough to see a role there.
00:51:35And Joe Milton, like, yeah, I think you just want to see like.
00:51:39Baby steps moving forward.
00:51:40And probably like consistency would be the big thing with him
00:51:43going back to his college career.
00:51:45Like he can spray some passes.
00:51:47He has the big arm, but it can get away from him a little bit.
00:51:49So if you can see some consistency, uh, there, that would be a good for him.
00:51:54But do you think, do you think they'll keep three quarterbacks or are we talking?
00:51:58I do think they'll keep three.
00:51:59And I actually, I don't know, it's a guarantee that one of Zappy or
00:52:03Milton makes the roster and roster slash practice squad.
00:52:07They may only have two, um, initially and keep a guy on the
00:52:09press squad for the time being.
00:52:10But I wouldn't be surprised if at some point, you know, during final roster
00:52:15cuts, if we, if they go out and they add a Matt corral, we'll
00:52:20Greer or type, um, even, even maybe with, with Joe Milton, maybe Joe
00:52:26Milton makes the team and they keep that guy on the practice squad.
00:52:28Or they add that guy to the team and Joe Milton's on the practice
00:52:30squad, like they may end up with four.
00:52:33But I, I, I wouldn't be surprised if it's something like that.
00:52:37What's Trace McShore McSorley doing these days?
00:52:39Is he still around?
00:52:41Well, he was thrown at the combine.
00:52:42It's funny you asked me that I was listening to the song this
00:52:44morning, cause it's on my college football playlist.
00:52:46Cause I'm getting hyped for the game later.
00:52:47Um, he's free agent.
00:52:50Okay.
00:52:51He's already 28.
00:52:52God, I'm old.
00:52:53We don't need Trace McSorley back here.
00:52:55He'll just hurt another running back.
00:52:57Like he hurt Ty Montgomery last, last summer.
00:53:00It wasn't great.
00:53:00It, I remember getting to the point where I was like, they need a better
00:53:03fourth quarterback and people were looking at me like I was crazy.
00:53:05I was like, no, cause these, these guys, they can't offer.
00:53:08He can't operate the offense.
00:53:09He just can't baseline.
00:53:11It was bad.
00:53:12Who was the guy?
00:53:14Two years ago.
00:53:16Oh, Garrett Gilbert.
00:53:17What's Garrett Gilbert doing?
00:53:20Uh, he's probably, I, I, I, I'd be up for another stint of Garrett Gilbert.
00:53:25Just get him back in here.
00:53:26One of the all time.
00:53:27Great Texas high school quarterbacks.
00:53:29Very true.
00:53:31He is unsigned.
00:53:33I'm sorry.
00:53:33He's going to get into coaching at some point, I would think.
00:53:36Yeah.
00:53:36I don't think he's currently unsigned.
00:53:38I don't think he ever signed after.
00:53:39No, he didn't.
00:53:40Yeah.
00:53:40Yeah.
00:53:40So, um, yeah.
00:53:43I'd say they keep three.
00:53:46I'd imagine they keep three, especially, you know, if one or two of those guys
00:53:49are, are, are rookies, but, uh, still tough time seeing where Bailey's happy
00:53:54falls in that, and we'll kind of see monitor Milton as the summer goes on there.
00:53:59But QB one, it was Jacoby percent throughout the spring.
00:54:03Alex Van Pelt even said like he'd be starting if we had games, but.
00:54:07Uh, Drake may is right behind them.
00:54:10What do you want to see from the rookie Drake may there?
00:54:15If he, do you think he can even unseat Jacoby percent this summer?
00:54:19And what does he have to do in order to do that?
00:54:22I, I don't know what he'd have to do in order to that.
00:54:24He has to really, you know, blow people away.
00:54:26I think the big thing for him is closing the gap.
00:54:29And even if he, even if the coaches know we're not playing this kid week one, he
00:54:34can put pressure on them, the better he plays, like the sooner they got to put
00:54:39him out there.
00:54:39So I think it's all about where he's at relevant to Berset and we'll go from there.
00:54:43And some of it's going to be a field thing.
00:54:44We're going to have to see it in.
00:54:47Uh, you know, real time and, and, and what that actually looks like.
00:54:50But I think for him, it's about just showing how close the gap is.
00:54:53Cause we've talked about this, the locker room is going to play a role here.
00:54:55They want to win.
00:54:56So they want to play with the quarterback who gives them the best chance to win.
00:54:59And, you know, I think there'd be some understanding, Hey, week one, we don't
00:55:02want to give this, put too much on this kid's plate.
00:55:04We're not ready, but like if he tears it up and camp and you're one and
00:55:09three, you're going to start hearing it in locker room.
00:55:11Whereas he's maybe not as great in camp guys don't feel as, you know, strongly
00:55:17about making the quarterback change.
00:55:18So again, I think for him, it's about closing the gap.
00:55:21Yeah.
00:55:22Cause Jacoby Berset, like he had a good spring.
00:55:26He's a good veteran.
00:55:27He's has familiarity in this offense.
00:55:29Like he's not going to implode and just hand the job to Drake may you imagine.
00:55:33So Drake may is going to have to earn it.
00:55:35I still think he, he could like the talent is just off
00:55:38the charts.
00:55:39He had a good spring again.
00:55:41So if he can, you know, keep doing the little things, right.
00:55:44And prove he's ready.
00:55:45Like I'm still not ruling them out starting right away, but then this,
00:55:50when the offensive line conversation comes in, like if they're still trying
00:55:53to figure out the offensive line, do you want to put the 21 year old rookie
00:55:56behind that, then maybe you give them a month or five weeks and like the
00:56:01locker room too, I think, you know, you nailed it there.
00:56:04If they're losing games and Drake mays tearing it up and on practice
00:56:08or in the summer, like they're going to want to, the players are going
00:56:12to want to make that switch.
00:56:12And what does that tell the players?
00:56:14If you're not making that switch, that that's something, you know, we
00:56:17heard with, you know, Patrick Mahomes, his rookie year, like he was tearing
00:56:20it up in practice and all the chiefs players are like, okay, this guy's
00:56:23the real deal, but Alex Smith was still winning 11 games.
00:56:25So they didn't have to do that.
00:56:27But, um, yeah, like I think.
00:56:30Drake may, like if he keeps kind of that trajectory that he was on
00:56:34throughout the spring, like the, the coaches spoke very highly of him.
00:56:37We could see it out there.
00:56:38Like he had a few seven on seven 11 on 11 sessions where like the
00:56:42ball never even hit the ground.
00:56:43He was tearing it up that well.
00:56:44Like I think he could make a push, but some external factors could be
00:56:49kind of going against him where maybe you have to put them on the shelf
00:56:52for a month to six weeks to kind of, kind of start the regular season there.
00:56:56Yeah.
00:56:57Yep.
00:56:58But, uh, I don't know.
00:57:01We, you know, Jacoby, like good veteran, just do you have any expectations
00:57:06for him if he does start the year or throughout the summer here?
00:57:10I mean, I, I think I just want to see at least for camp, like how
00:57:12he's working with Drake may.
00:57:14Right.
00:57:15And let's see if he's part of the development and all that.
00:57:17We know how important Brian Hoyer was to Mack Jones, uh, before his good
00:57:20rookie year and, and, you know, other quarterbacks and other teams too.
00:57:23So I, I, I'm just curious the dynamic between him and may, I
00:57:27don't think there'll be anything problematic there.
00:57:29I'm just interested to see how it plays out.
00:57:31Yep.
00:57:32Yeah.
00:57:32That'll be something, something good to monitor there, but, uh, anything
00:57:37else, quarterbacks, Drake may any other things there'll be, you'll
00:57:42be looking forward with that group.
00:57:44I think that's, that's probably it.
00:57:45I I'll add this though, since we're not going to do a separate special
00:57:50teams preview, or I generally break up kickers, offense, punters, defense.
00:57:56Kicker battle.
00:57:57Kicker battle.
00:57:58And I'll ask you the question again, Brian, that I've been asking,
00:58:01how do you feel a week out?
00:58:03Is the Patriots week one kicker currently on the roster?
00:58:08I'm going, no, I don't think it is.
00:58:10I'm still going.
00:58:11No.
00:58:11And you know what?
00:58:11He might not be on the roster until final roster cuts.
00:58:15I, I, the more I think about it, I think they're going to
00:58:17give both these guys a chance.
00:58:19And if neither proves it, they're going to do what Titans did last year.
00:58:22And they'll flip a seventh round pick to one of these teams
00:58:24that has two kickers in camp.
00:58:26I think that's, what's going to end up happening.
00:58:28Yeah.
00:58:29Yeah.
00:58:29I mean, nothing we saw from either Chad Ryland or Joey
00:58:32Sly in the spring was like reassuring in any way, really.
00:58:37And I was digging into like the 12, 13 teams last week that has two,
00:58:43even the Packers have three kickers.
00:58:45Like there are some NFL caliber kickers or intriguing rookies.
00:58:50Like, you know, Carolina has Eddie Pinero and Harrison Mivas, who thicker kicker.
00:58:54We talked a lot in draft season.
00:58:56One of those guys is probably going to come available.
00:58:58And then you have the UFL guys who had some impressive seasons in that league.
00:59:02So there are some talented guys out there and there will be plenty of
00:59:07movement late in the, you know, the summer during roster cuts at that spot.
00:59:11So they're going to let these guys earn it.
00:59:13But again, nothing we've saw throughout the spring, it was, you know, raised the
00:59:17confidence level in either of those guys.
00:59:19So if I had a guess, I'd probably say their week one guy isn't
00:59:23on, isn't on the roster right now.
00:59:25Yeah.
00:59:25I'm I'm with you.
00:59:26He's somewhere, but he's not on the Patriots.
00:59:29He's out there.
00:59:29So again, that's if, if you really want to track the Patriots kicker
00:59:33ballot, you got to look at these other teams too, with multiple
00:59:35kickers, cause that's going to be a part of it.
00:59:37Yep.
00:59:38Uh, we'll actually see, we'll see the Panthers.
00:59:42We'll get a, they'll come first preseason game.
00:59:44So we'll see both of those kickers.
00:59:46Uh, I don't think the Eagles, they have Jake Elliott, so they won't have one.
00:59:50Um, I can tell you who's the third preseason game against it's
00:59:54Panthers, Eagles, commanders.
00:59:56I think they have two actually.
00:59:58Uh, they even have one cause they just cut, they had to cut Brandon McManus.
01:00:04Cause all right.
01:00:05So here are the teams with multiple kickers.
01:00:06At least this is as of a week ago.
01:00:08I haven't checked, but, uh, the Jaguars have Cam Little and Riley Patterson.
01:00:12Both potential NFL kick.
01:00:15Patterson is an NFL kicker.
01:00:16Little was a six round pick.
01:00:17He was top drafted kicker this year.
01:00:19So something to watch Rams have Joshua Cardi and Tanner Brown.
01:00:23And that's probably Cardi Tanner.
01:00:25Brown's not, he's really, uh, Vikings.
01:00:28Will Reichert, John Parker, Romo that's Reichert.
01:00:30I don't know about Romo.
01:00:32Titans have Braden Naverson or Narveson.
01:00:35Who is he?
01:00:35Was a good college kicker.
01:00:36He was undrafted.
01:00:37He's a good college kicker and he joins Nick Fulk.
01:00:39Maybe get Nick Fulk back.
01:00:40Maybe Narveson becomes available.
01:00:43Um, Panthers.
01:00:44We talked about Harrison Mivas, Nettie Pinheiro, and the lions have Jake Bates,
01:00:48Michael Badgley, if, if Bates really shows up, Michael Badgley
01:00:53could be an option.
01:00:53And then, uh, I don't know if the name's listed, but the Browns,
01:00:56Cardinals, Colts, Jets, and Steelers all have multiple kickers as well.
01:01:00All right.
01:01:01The commander signed.
01:01:03Rahm is Ahmed.
01:01:05Yeah, I don't know who that is, but they have one kicker.
01:01:08So, uh, yeah, that Panthers first preseason game that could be, make
01:01:12sure you're watching that, that, that kickoff there, that kicker group.
01:01:15So maybe one of them is a future Patriot, but, uh, I believe that will do it.
01:01:21Any last things, offensive preview, any things we didn't touch about
01:01:25underrated guys, anything that we missed?
01:01:29Um, I think that's pretty much it.
01:01:31I'll do it.
01:01:32All right.
01:01:32So that is our offensive training camp preview.
01:01:35We will be back Wednesday to do the defense, probably same time in the
01:01:40morning because Barth is on 98 five.
01:01:43What time this week?
01:01:44Uh, two to six, two to six all week.
01:01:47I'm on Fogarton mass.
01:01:48Yep.
01:01:49Make sure you tune into that.
01:01:50Plenty of training camp talk.
01:01:52I'm sure.
01:01:53Uh, you can also head over to 98 five, the sports hub.com and follow
01:01:57Alex on Twitter at real Alex Barth.
01:01:59He'll have some training camp written coverage over there as well.
01:02:02And you can head over to Pat's pulpit.com for our training camp
01:02:05previews and follow me on Twitter at I am Brian Hein.
01:02:09So thank you all for joining us this morning and we will see you
01:02:12guys again for the defensive training camp preview on Wednesday.
01:02:17All right.
01:02:17Bye.