Is Technology a Boon or a Bane? || Acharya Prashant, in conversation (2022)

Acharya Prashant

‍♂️ Want to meet Acharya Prashant? Be a part of the Live Sessions: https://acharyaprashant.org/hi/enquir...   Want to read Acharya Prashant's Books? Get Free Delivery: https://acharyaprashant.org/en/books?...  The interviewer is Dr. Eban Goodstein, Environmental Economist, Director - Center for Environmental Policy, Bard College, New York, USA.  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~  Video Information: 11.02.2022, Interview Session, Goa  Context: ~ What is Climate Change? ~ How to stop climate change? ~ What is the solution to global warming? ~ How can we control the increasing population? ~How can spirituality solve the problem of global warming? ~What is the most effective way of dealing with climate change? ~ How can population control help in dealing with climate change? ~What is the solution to climate change? ~How spirituality can stop climate change? ~Climate change has no scientific solution  Music Credits: Milind Date ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Transcript

00:00Is betterment in technology really helping or is it enabling the consumer of the technology

00:09to consume more and more with impunity and with the false assurance that you see I now

00:17have a moral license as well.

00:20I am not a climate offender anymore because the technology that I am consuming is so very

00:26green.

00:27No, I have a Tesla now rather than a Suzuki or a Hyundai.

00:32The thing is, is a Tesla really carbon neutral?

00:37Well you know I agree with you and I think we're getting back to that fundamental question

00:41of kind of too many people consuming too many things.

00:45But I would say that there is a shift right that I mean it's not just green technology

00:52it's low carbon technology and again how do we buy, how do we extend the window, how do

00:56we buy time, we have to move to a 100% renewable energy economy globally, right?

01:07And stop burning fossil fuels, that's one thing we have to do and the other thing we

01:10have to do is figure out how to develop regenerative agriculture techniques that trap carbon in

01:16the soil and that also raise the income and livelihoods of farmers, small farmers in particular.

01:22So those two technology changes, a shift to 100% renewable energy and that means battery

01:29powered everything and regenerative agriculture that pulls carbon out of the atmosphere and

01:36increases the well-being of farmers, those are the two things that buy us the time.

01:43Now it is true that there's so much greenwashing though and what we have to keep our eye on

01:49is okay I have all these new technologies but is my carbon footprint going up or down?

01:54That's you know as an individual, as a nation, as a company that's the measure and we can't

02:00be distracted by these shiny new toys that claim to be green or whatever when they really

02:06are just enabling more consumption, more pollution.

02:13So I think we can make progress there but then again I agree with you that ultimately

02:20the problem lies in us understanding our relationship with each other and with the earth and how

02:30do we get there because that is the hard, how do we get 8 or 9 billion people to have

02:37that kind of a consciousness shift and I think the opportunity as you say is now I mean because

02:43we are in crisis with the earth.

02:46I mean I think we have to begin with our schools.

02:51There has to be a basic self-inquiry process with the kids.

02:59I don't know whether it sounds outlandish as I say it even if it does let's think about

03:06it.

03:07Why not ask the kids why are we born, why do we exist at all and we don't want to come

03:13from a religion or a scripture or a particular ideology.

03:17Let's have a freewheeling discussion on this thing.

03:20Why do we exist at all?

03:21What's the purpose?

03:23The thing is once we are sensitized to this question and it becomes something important

03:30in the mind then the purpose of life is no more mere consumption and when you do not

03:38have a great purpose, a lively and a lovable purpose to live by then the only thing one

03:48lives for is just consumption and unfortunately it seems that a huge majority of the people

03:58across the world are living very purposelessly and hence they live just to consume and that's

04:04the reason why we measure the progresses of countries through their GDPs.

04:12That's why everything that we want to talk of has to be talked in numbers and particularly

04:19numbers denoting money.

04:22I am again not a money hater or something.

04:27I am rather pro-life and pro-purpose.

04:32How will you stop a person from just trying out the next thing in the market if he has

04:39nothing else in his life and how will you stop a company, let's say a consumer goods

04:47company from producing the next attractive and alluring thing if the owners and the stakeholders

04:57in that company want nothing but money because that's all that they have in their life.

05:04You see we talked of reaching carbon neutral stage, let's have great technologies but

05:13I just want to open the question, aren't we trusting ourselves just too much and if

05:20we look at the track record of our species, do we really deserve to be trusted so much?

05:27I mean right now one particular element, carbon is the problem.

05:31How do you know and how are you so sure that in the process of dealing with carbon we will

05:37not make nitrogen the next big problem?

05:39It already is coming up, right?

05:42Nitrogen is an issue, just that this issue will probably become large enough and frightening

05:47enough three decades later.

05:49Sulphur is an issue and all kinds of heavy metals are an issue but we are not talking

05:56of heavy metals so much today, we are not talking of sulphur so much today, we are not

06:00talking of lead and arsenic so much today, we are not talking of radioactive stuff so

06:03much today.

06:06In mitigating carbon, I am afraid we are going to prop up some other problem because we as

06:13a species, I am saying with all humility, are not wise enough, though we think we are

06:21just too smart, so we try this, we try that and then we, you know, that's a representative

06:30of the oldest civilization speaking to the newest one.

06:35Well please help us, help me understand how we become wiser because I mean I do agree

06:40with you.

06:41I think the idea of purpose is interesting.

06:44I run an MBA program in sustainability so it's a business program but the vision of

06:52the business program is how do you build a business that's actually in business to solve

06:57critical social and environmental problems like climate change.

07:01How do you do that, right?

07:03And of course it has to be financially successful, it's a business, it has to make enough money

07:07to cover its costs but how do you put purpose first and then have financial success and

07:14profitability follow?

07:16What's interesting is that this idea of purpose driven business has become very popular in

07:21Europe and the United States at least as kind of the way to, the better way to make money,

07:28right?

07:29Because if you can, people want purpose in life and if a company can provide its employees

07:33and its consumers with a sense of purpose then it will be more successful.

07:42And then of course you get into this question of is it greenwashing and is it just a smokescreen

07:47or is the company really dedicated to purpose?

07:50And one of my professors, Hunter Lovins, likes to say that hypocrisy is the first step towards

07:55real change.

07:57So that if you at least get people committed to purpose then you can hold them accountable

08:01and begin to move them along those dimensions.

08:06But human life has evolved under capitalism to elevate consumption as the road to status.

08:17And status is what we're hard, in my opinion, is what we're hardwired for by evolution because

08:25we all seek status in our communities and the way we get it is through consumption.

08:29How can we build societies in which people gain self-worth and status without that?

08:35I mean, we can look to indigenous communities, for example, in the United States, there's

08:40a potlatch culture in the northwestern US where people actually gain status by giving

08:45things away.

08:46The more you gave away, the higher the status that you achieved in your community.

08:51Can we make that shift?

08:52No, no, the thing is why do we need status at all?

08:58When we said that we need to initiate this discussion among young kids, why don't we

09:04ask them this question?

09:05Why do you need to draw your self-worth or self-esteem from somebody else?

09:12Because as long as we need those things from others, we will need a lot of goods from the

09:17world.

09:18You see, these two things are so, so very interlinked, no?

09:22I want my self-worth to come from the world and I want objects that supply me happiness

09:29to come from the world.

09:33Must I be so dependent on the world?

09:34It is not a condition of great helplessness.

09:38The world can withdraw its sanction anytime, the world can withdraw the status it gave

09:42to me anytime.

09:43Universities, when they offer degrees, they attach a rider, you know, even the degrees

09:52can be risk-indebted.

09:54My degrees are not with me forever, so if I attach my identity to my educational qualifications,

10:00I am running a risk and I will be afraid.

10:03Should I really live like this?

10:05Must I really live like this?

10:06You talked of sustainable businesses in the MBA program you referred to and when it comes

10:12to MBA programs, I have been through a pretty prestigious MBA program, so what really is

10:19the definition of success?

10:21When do I call myself successful?

10:24And if I do not have a rigorous definition of success, then no amount of money will suffice.

10:33When do I say I am really successful?

10:36A related question is, and you would find it interesting doctor, why do businesses fail?

10:44Why do businesses fail?

10:46I have mentored a few businesses and in my limited experience, I have seen businesses

10:50fail because they fail really to live up to the expectations of their founders.

10:58Businesses don't fail, they just prove too inadequate compared to the ambition of those

11:06who launched them.

11:10So do I really require to be a superstar to have a successful business?

11:14No, I just need to have modest ambitions and my business will be successful, unless the

11:21idea is really rotten.

11:23I cannot sell coombs to what I will be let's say two decades later to a person like me.

11:32So unless we have that kind of mindless idea, businesses are not really going to fail and

11:41achieving profitability or sustainability in business is not going to be such a Herculean

11:46task.

11:48But because we want just too much from life, hence businesses fail.

11:55I want to spend this much, I want to have at least this thick a bottom line and that's

12:01not what I am getting.

12:02So I would rather shut shop, this kind of a thing happens.

12:06I had thought I would come up with an IPO in the fourth year, break even in eight months

12:13and that's not materializing and why am I not having that break even thing in eight

12:17months flat?

12:19So if I love really what I do, will I ever let it fail?

12:23That's my question.

12:25So let me get back to your idea of engaging young people with the idea of purpose and

12:30helping them understand that purpose is not about dying with the most toys as we like

12:35to say.

12:37That should not be your purpose in life.

12:41And I think that young people are open to that.

12:44There's something about young people that they are searching for that and perhaps that

12:49should be the goal of the teach-in, is to help young people question this sort of commitment

12:56to endless consumption.

13:02How do you, and I see many young people in the United States who are choosing veganism

13:09for climate reasons, living plastic free lives, trying to explore what it really means to

13:18be in kind of a right relationship with themselves and the earth.

13:23So how do we, I mean, but it's a small group, right?

13:29It's one percent.

13:30How do we expand that appeal of that kind of questioning of life to more young people?

13:37Teach-ins, just as you are approaching them, we'll have to teach, we'll have to teach.

13:46And I suppose any good business today to survive has to first of all generate awareness.

13:56Therefore it has to be in the business of teaching, right?

14:00Because the right product today would need an aware buyer.

14:09You just cannot sell the right thing to the wrong person.

14:14If I am someone conditioned by generations of consumptions of advertising and misplaced

14:22cultural values and somebody comes up with a great product or great service, I'm not

14:28going to buy that.

14:31So if I come up with something that really is good from an internal perspective, from

14:39an ecological perspective, then I'll have to first of all generate awareness.

14:45And I'll have to be prepared to go that extra mile and put in that much of extra effort.

14:50So the business of teaching is what this world needs today.

14:55I'm not saying one has to be, in that sense, just a teacher, but you will have to be a

15:00teacher as well.

15:02You want to come up, for example, with a great vegan cafe or a great vegan recipe or a packaged

15:11vegan product in a place, let's say, like North India, where there is not much sensitivity

15:20or awareness regarding veganism and where dairy production and consumption is a cultural

15:27value.

15:29First of all, you will have to educate the population and you will have to educate the

15:32population to a point where they are prepared to accept the product, even if it turns out

15:38a little expensive, though typically it won't be extra expensive.

15:43But even if it is, education will make it acceptable and affordable to people.

15:50Same thing when it comes to clothes, when it comes to automobiles, when it comes to

15:56even tourism destinations, or when it comes to means of gratification.

16:07That's what we need today.

16:09We cannot have, you please tell me, otherwise I'm curious to know, how can I have a great

16:14business in a market that does not value that business?

16:19How will I get my employees?

16:23How will I get my vendors?

16:24How will I get my customers?

16:27Even the government is not going to support me.

16:29Rather, I would find that the government is subsidizing my competitor and that competitor

16:34is feasting on all kinds of rotten and polluting technologies.

16:38But because that competitor has a market around him and in a democracy, it's the numbers

16:44that matter, so the government seems to be more aligned with him.

16:47How will I survive in the market?

16:49So I have to be an educator.

16:52I know that's going to be tough.

16:53But then as a young person, when we are talking of that segment, as a young person, I ought

16:59to have the stamina for troubles.

17:03Why not?

17:04That's what would probably make life worth living.

17:07Yes.

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