My Brother is Marrying an OF Model!  Freedomain Call In - video Dailymotion

Stefan Molyneux

In this heartfelt episode, we address a caller's concerns about her brother's questionable upcoming marriage. The caller discusses her worries about her brother's sensitivity and his fianc�e's past actions, including engaging in OnlyFans and overspending. Seeking advice on managing this delicate situation within the family, we analyze the family dynamics and the impact of the caller's mother's avoidance of difficult conversations to maintain relationships. Exploring upbringing influences and missed opportunities in addressing sibling bullying, we delve into the caller's family history, shedding light on generational patterns and personal experiences shaping perceptions. Reflecting on the complexities of familial responsibilities and the importance of authentic connections over obligation, we emphasize setting boundaries, open communication, and prioritizing future generations' well-being in navigating intricate family dynamics with grace and compassion.  Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!  NOW AVAILABLE FOR SUBSCRIBERS: MY NEW BOOK 'PEACEFUL PARENTING' - AND THE INTERACTIVE PEACEFUL PARENTING AI AND AUDIOBOOK!  Also get the Truth About the French Revolution, the interactive multi-lingual philosophy AI trained on thousands of hours of my material, private livestreams, premium call in shows, the 22 Part History of Philosophers series and much more!  See you soon!  https://freedomain.locals.com/support/promo/UPB2022

Transcript

00:00:00Hello Stefan, I am the eldest of four siblings and the only daughter

00:00:04My second youngest brother is planning to be married in April to someone who is a huge red flag

00:00:10Three months into their relationship

00:00:11My other brothers and I sat down with him and tried to get him out of the relation

00:00:16Relationship before it was too late. He didn't listen. They eventually moved in together

00:00:21They lied about the length of their relationship to get her added on to his benefits through work

00:00:27On top of other things and now have three dogs

00:00:31I know that this girl has a lot of trauma. Her father did commit suicide

00:00:36She was raised by her abusive mom and basically had to raise her younger sister

00:00:41And I do feel bad for her and I want her to get the help that she needs to heal

00:00:46but they're not willing to take advice or listen to any suggestions when I've

00:00:51Tried to give them my opinions or I've even shared your work with them to try to entice them to listen to you

00:00:58I'm very certain that if my brother does marry her he will regret it in the future and especially

00:01:04Her he's in for a rocky future

00:01:06my husband and I have discussed that we will not attend the wedding because we can't support the union and that we do not want

00:01:13To raise our kids around her and therefore him by association

00:01:17we haven't told them this yet, but

00:01:20We're planning to very soon

00:01:23Growing up. My family has always been very close and I am being torn apart by this

00:01:29I love my brother dearly and I'm very scared that

00:01:33If we don't attend the wedding and then tell them that we don't want our kids around them

00:01:38That it would really hurt him and our relationship

00:01:43He's very sensitive. So that part is tough and then which would mean that

00:01:49In the future if there's family gatherings and weddings and holidays, etc

00:01:53That they would attend then we wouldn't and I am afraid that it would tear my entire family apart

00:01:59I don't think that my siblings or my parents have the conviction to stand up to him and

00:02:04one example of one of my siblings recent response to me when I

00:02:09Explained what we were planning to do as he said that they seem happy together and it's his life

00:02:15he has to make the mistakes and learn from them and

00:02:18You'll regret ruining the relationship. If you do cut him off and decide not to attend his wedding. I

00:02:24Would not want to force my siblings or parents to have to choose between me or him

00:02:29When planning events and I am willing to just forfeit attending things and plan different

00:02:34Get-togethers with just my parents or just my siblings

00:02:37But it's breaking my heart to think about this and I do plan to have a conversation

00:02:41With my parents about this next week to get their thoughts

00:02:44And to give them a heads up on what we're planning to do, but I want your advice

00:02:49Am I right? Am I making the right decision if he chooses to go through with it?

00:02:54Do I skip the wedding but not cut him off completely and still go to family functions?

00:02:59So that our children don't miss out on seeing the family all together and they still get to know them

00:03:05We just don't do anything one-on-one with them

00:03:07I'm at a loss because I want to do what's best for my for my husband and for my family

00:03:13But I also don't want to lose the family that I came from

00:03:16Please if you can help me make the best decision and sort through my emotions before I do anything irreversible. I

00:03:25Like the high-stakes nature irreversible

00:03:30Sorry to start with such a silly technical question, but what why three dogs? Oh

00:03:37Gosh, um, well they got they my brother always wanted a dog and

00:03:43then he got a new place and he had a girlfriend and so he was like

00:03:47Oh, I think I'm gonna get a dog now and like because my husband and I were married

00:03:52We had a dog. My youngest sibling is also getting married and they bought a dog

00:03:57so then he was feeling left out I guess and then we were like, okay, don't get a dog with her unless you're married because

00:04:04It's like having a child if you guys split up blah blah blah. They're like, oh screw it

00:04:08So they got a dog and then they got another one and then they were fostering a third one

00:04:13And then now they're keeping it. I

00:04:17Don't know no, but why do you have the dogs?

00:04:20What do you mean? Sorry? I'm still but why don't they have the dogs?

00:04:25They do they do. Oh, sorry. I thought when you said you we have three dogs. I thought you meant okay

00:04:31Okay, now they have three dogs, okay, sorry if I got that wrong, all right, okay. Okay. Okay, so

00:04:37Where do you want to start I've had some thoughts, of course, but you know, you're you're in charge of the convo

00:04:43So I'm all ears

00:04:47I just I'm struggling with this because

00:04:54Like my I don't know my brother is very sensitive and

00:05:00like I he has a lot of mental health problems and I just

00:05:04Like it worries me and I know it like it can't be put on me that he has to deal with it himself

00:05:10But I'm just kind of worried about him and like when I tell him this

00:05:16What that's gonna do to him and like I'm hoping that

00:05:21He would go to my other siblings and eventually my mom and then like talk it through with them

00:05:28To come to a conclusion, but I'm scared that he's just gonna

00:05:31Stick with the girl and go and then she's going to be like well if they don't want a relationship with us

00:05:37Like I don't even know. I don't even know where to start. Yeah, all right

00:05:42All right. Why don't we start with a word that has troubled me now twice in the conversation?

00:05:48And that word is

00:05:51sensitive

00:05:52Yes

00:05:54My brother

00:05:56Is very sensitive, right? Yeah, you said it

00:06:00Right. Yeah, you said it in the email and you said it again

00:06:03Yeah what that word means to you because it may not be the same meaning that it has for me

00:06:08But I want to know what it means for you

00:06:10Sure. Um

00:06:12he's just a very

00:06:13emotional person and like I don't typically see a lot of men cry

00:06:20and he cries

00:06:22When he like is very strongly feeling his emotions, I guess I would say

00:06:29But emotional and sensitive are the same thing

00:06:34I mean my mother was very emotional

00:06:38Yeah, she cried she yelled she was full of self-pity, you know, so my mother was very emotional she's not sensitive

00:06:46Right. That's what I want to understand

00:06:49Okay

00:06:51Yeah

00:06:54And i'm not laying some elaborate trap for you like I genuinely don't know what you don't

00:06:58Know for sure. Uh, yeah, I just would say that he feels things very deeply and he

00:07:05um takes a lot of things to heart and he'll and he cries and he like he's just a very

00:07:11I guess emotional person and okay, so he's like he takes things very sensitively

00:07:16He's very sensitive to thoughts and feelings of others, right?

00:07:19Yes. Okay. So does he know you're upset about the marriage coming up?

00:07:24uh

00:07:26Not yet, no, like I mean, no, no, no, yeah, hang on. Hang on. Hang on

00:07:30He's but he's so sensitive

00:07:33And you're you're his sister

00:07:35You're right. So surely he would know that there's an upset or a problem or or an issue

00:07:41very true

00:07:42one of the main things late like since he's since that conversation where we

00:07:48Sat down with him and like told him our

00:07:52Issue with her we have not

00:07:55None of the three of us have been able to get him alone to have a one-on-one conversation with him

00:08:00all the situations

00:08:02She has come on there. Come on. I know I know

00:08:06Please i'm begging you

00:08:09Don't give me these excuses

00:08:11I know that's an excuse. Can you can you not call him? Is he not available by phone?

00:08:18uh, he is

00:08:20I just like two to three times that I did try to call him to talk to him

00:08:24He was like i'm at work right now. I can't talk and then when I call him, oh, hang on. Hang on. Hang on

00:08:30Sorry to keep interrupting. So yeah, so he's he's very sensitive and he knows that you want to talk to him about something

00:08:37Yeah, so surely he now will make time because you know

00:08:40He's so sensitive and he cares so much about other people's thoughts and feelings

00:08:44And he knows that you're desperate to talk to him about something

00:08:47So, of course he will now make that time and and make sure that he

00:08:51Helps satisfy you because he's sensitive and caring

00:08:56Oh, sorry, has that not happened

00:08:58I guess not. Okay. No, so i'm happy to hear maybe then how you're defining sensitive

00:09:03I guess which seems like caring right? I'm happy to hear how you can define that in a different way

00:09:10I'm not sure

00:09:13You're right, you're right i'm not sure how to

00:09:17I mean if my wife really really wants to talk about something

00:09:22And I keep dodging her

00:09:24Am I sensitive and caring?

00:09:27No, I'm really not what am I

00:09:34Afraid well, I don't know what I am, but i'm sure it's not sensitive and caring. I'm a manipulative and avoidant

00:09:40I don't know what you'd call it, but

00:09:42That's nonsense. So so i'm i'm trying to figure out like

00:09:46Also, if he's so sensitive, wouldn't he? Okay. So to give me some of the

00:09:51Fiances, I mean you mentioned them in the email, but just let's jawbone it for a sec

00:09:55So some major issues you have with the fiancee

00:09:58I mean, I'm sure she's had trauma, but you know

00:10:01most of us have and

00:10:03It that you know, you can do good things with it and become a better person

00:10:06But so of course we can't fault her for the trauma and I liked how you did, you know

00:10:10I got a real problem with her. Yeah. Well, she was traumatized as a kid and it's like, yeah

00:10:14So you go from like she's she's a real problem. Well, but here's the most sympathetic thing. I can see the ambivalence, right?

00:10:21I was like, well, I don't want to totally harp on her because like that

00:10:25That pitfall just ripped my leg off, but you know, it might have been mistreated as a pup and it's like

00:10:30It just doesn't it doesn't put your leg back on

00:10:33Yeah

00:10:34um, just some of the like main things that she's done like she does

00:10:40like like only fans, so she's like

00:10:42selling herself basically

00:10:45um, and then did I i'm I apologize because I read the email three times and then I just mentioned it did I

00:10:54No

00:10:55No, I didn't put that in there because I wanted to say it you wanted to surprise me

00:11:00I wanted to surprise you. Oh, that's so thoughtful

00:11:04Look at you being sensitive and caring

00:11:07What why wouldn't you say that?

00:11:10Yeah, I I don't know I sent the email and then I was talking with my husband about what am I gonna say?

00:11:16And then we talked about more things. I'm like dang

00:11:18I probably should have like set talked to you about this before I wrote the email

00:11:22But no, you can send a follow-up email, right? You're not limited to one

00:11:26Oh shoot. Well, my bad. No. No, i'm not. It's not a criticism. It's just it's just a little jaw-dropping

00:11:33I apologize

00:11:34Again, i'm not i'm not saying it's i'm not complaining like it's wrongdoing. I like surprises

00:11:40Okay, I got no problem with that. But just like well, you know, it's kind of ambivalent. She did have a tough childhood

00:11:47She's kind of half whoring herself online. So there's that

00:11:51Yeah, and I don't know what to what extent like as far as i've been told I pray to god above that

00:11:59You never know

00:12:00Yeah, I pray to god. I never know

00:12:03Uh who wants to see?

00:12:04The butt of their sister-in-law, right? Yeah, that's pretty much a no one

00:12:09That's nobody

00:12:11Um, yeah, so she does that

00:12:14um

00:12:16she

00:12:17Disrespects my brother in the sense of like she goes out to bars

00:12:21with

00:12:22her guy friends

00:12:24And just wears low-cut shirts to get drinks bought for her

00:12:29She is not small like she's

00:12:32Pretty uh, like she doesn't exercise or anything like she's overweight, but she has like the biggest boobs i've ever seen

00:12:40She like I guess that explains the only fam's fisheye lens angle or whatever, okay

00:12:45exactly

00:12:47Um, sorry, how how overweight would you guess her to be?

00:12:50Oh

00:12:52Not counting the boobs for days or whatever. We want to call them

00:12:56um, probably at least like

00:12:59Oh my god, i'm terrible at like guessing like maybe 100 pounds at least she's pretty short so maybe it could be more

00:13:07so she's

00:13:08But she's like five two five three five one

00:13:11Five five five. Oh, she's five five and what would you guess her weight to be if you don't mind?

00:13:17Doing it in pounds. That would be excellent

00:13:19Oh my god. Um

00:13:23Maybe like 240 or 220 somewhere around there

00:13:28Okay

00:13:30That's uh, I don't understand only fans, but that's fine

00:13:33I'm, i'm happy to go through i'm go i'm going to go to my grave and on my headstones like did not understand only fans

00:13:39Okay

00:13:40All right. So

00:13:41She's uh, 240. She's five five

00:13:45And she does only fans

00:13:47Yeah, okay

00:13:48and she goes to bars and uh, gosh, what was it? I remember getting a karaoke bar with one woman who had these, you know

00:13:57um titano boobs came in and uh

00:14:00Some guy went up to her and said were you in a car accident today and she's like no

00:14:06Why because your airbags are still deployed anyway

00:14:09um, i'm not saying I approve i'm just saying that it was mildly funny, so

00:14:14Okay, so she goes to the bars and she gets drinks by you know

00:14:20Flashing the kind of cleavage that could swallow the titanic and then what else?

00:14:25Um

00:14:28I don't know. She

00:14:30Is super involved with like lgbt stuff like does all the pride parades and she like runs a little

00:14:38Stand there and now he's helping her do that

00:14:40She does like her new job that she has started is she's working at the soup kitchen as a security guard

00:14:48So she does that

00:14:50Like four hours a day or sometimes six hours a day and so does that mean only fans is not going super well

00:14:58uh

00:14:59I guess she's on a medication now that is

00:15:03um

00:15:05Causing her like sex drive to not be so great

00:15:08So she's not feeling like she wants to do antidepressants or something. I mean you don't if you don't know that's fine

00:15:13I can't remember the word

00:15:15Um, but she's got a lot of stomach like gut problems. So I think it's something to do with that

00:15:20Ah, that's where her conscience may be. Okay

00:15:23all right, and

00:15:26Anything else he said assuming the crash position

00:15:30Yeah, i'm just trying to think. I mean not that we need a lot more but

00:15:35uh, just like with

00:15:37She doesn't really have a filter. So when she talks it's like non-stop and it just is nonsense and she

00:15:44I don't know. She just monopolizes every single conversation

00:15:47So that part is frustrating because then we like get together and we're trying to talk and it's like

00:15:52My brother says like a word and then she just says like 52 billion words and she's

00:15:58It's really hard to be in any space with her. She's a lot

00:16:03Um, and then the other thing is just with my mom

00:16:07like

00:16:07Uh, she had they tried to borrow money from my parents to buy a vehicle

00:16:13But they had been not being very good with their spending so my parents said no problem

00:16:17We'll lend you the money, but we want to see your finances and what you're like wasting your money on

00:16:22And they said like until the girl

00:16:27um gets

00:16:28a job that

00:16:30Is making more money. Do you really think you should be spending money on this blah blah blah and then she took offense to that

00:16:37And then basically my brother didn't speak to my parents for three months

00:16:41To my parents for three months because of that because

00:16:46Uh, he's a welder, okay and makes really good money, right

00:16:52Yeah, right, uh, where did they where did they meet

00:16:56Uh online through a dating app excellent, okay

00:17:01And you don't have to give me no, sorry, sorry can I throw one little tidbit at you too

00:17:07I I have a feeling it's not going to be a little tidbit but throw away

00:17:11Yeah, well just in case it it helps with anything

00:17:14Um while she was online dating and just in like that hookup culture scene. She also hooked up with my youngest brother

00:17:25Sorry, I just I just I just have to get a little butterfly net because I felt my will to live leave my body

00:17:30And I just need to grab it. Hang on

00:17:32Yeah, no got away. Okay. We'll just have to struggle on without it

00:17:36So she slept with your younger brother now. She's dating another brother

00:17:41Yeah

00:17:42Yeah

00:17:44Right

00:17:45Yeah, right

00:17:47No, I think there was like a year in between. I don't care. I I don't care

00:17:51I don't care if there's four generations between it. I don't know. I know please

00:17:56There's no statute of limitations on brother to brother

00:18:00I know

00:18:02Okay, all right, that's all I can think of no, that's uh, that's interesting

00:18:08Um, I tried to take notes, but my pencil committed suicide so

00:18:13Um, I'll just have to go from memory. All right

00:18:16Now, um, your parents are concerned at their possible overspending, right?

00:18:22Yes, okay

00:18:24Do your parents know that the woman does only fans?

00:18:28Yes

00:18:29And their concern is overspending

00:18:31Oh, no, their concern is that but when they brought it up the last time it was a big issue

00:18:39I well, I that was the issue that like they stopped talking to them because

00:18:43My mom had made a comment about the thing that she's doing for work

00:18:48Is not really appropriate and is not bringing in good income blah blah blah. I'm, sorry

00:18:53She was i'm sorry. Let me just back back up a little here

00:18:57Have you okay, so your mother knows that this woman does only fans and she says it's not appropriate

00:19:06And it doesn't bring in enough money

00:19:09well

00:19:11I'm i don't want to put words in like in my mother's mouth the way

00:19:16Uh, she's she said it's not appropriate. She wishes that the girl wouldn't do it

00:19:22And what did like she was just saying that she's not appropriate

00:19:26Yeah, could we just pause on that for a moment

00:19:31Yeah, my so my mom she

00:19:37Uh

00:19:39She

00:19:40and this is yeah, like your email kind of hit home or like your

00:19:44response that you put out kind of hit home with this because my mom is very much the kind of person that is like

00:19:50I would rather

00:19:52Keep you in my life and have a relationship with you

00:19:57then

00:19:58to have you mad at me and not talking to me kind of thing because I

00:20:02Told you something you didn't want to hear right, you know

00:20:05yeah, this is based on um the

00:20:07Response that I had on the live stream right or shortly after okay

00:20:11So I I predicted right you this you'd mentioned this about your brother and I predicted that it would be your mom who'd have to

00:20:17Deal with it, right? Okay. Yes. So and you're you're you're dead

00:20:23Uh

00:20:25I've never been slightly more sweaty palms before responses in quite some time

00:20:28So I actually have to go and get my bike helmet, but go on

00:20:32my dad

00:20:33from what i've

00:20:35Seen or heard has not really said anything and I could be wrong

00:20:40It could be something that he's like one-on-one talk to my brother just we

00:20:44We all we understand that that conversations. You're not party off. You don't know that I understand

00:20:49I

00:20:50and I have no idea but from what i've seen from like

00:20:54just

00:20:55From my parents relationship. My mom is more the outspoken one and my dad is very like keeps to himself and doesn't

00:21:03All right. So when you were being raised and sorry, there's you you and your brother and who else?

00:21:09Yeah, I have i'm the oldest and I have three younger brothers three younger brothers and and so, you know

00:21:13She's only gone through two-thirds of them. So there's still room

00:21:17um

00:21:18Okay, so when you were I'm, sorry, you don't want to know about the other one

00:21:25They're all a mess right now, there's

00:21:28They're growing up

00:21:30All right. And at least what's what's you don't have to tell me your brother's actual age is early 20s late 20s 30s

00:21:38uh

00:21:39my

00:21:40The one that we're talking about. Yeah. Yeah the one the the messed up brother

00:21:43We could do maybe another talk another time when that one comes up, but let's just deal with the welder

00:21:4826 okay

00:21:51Now when you were growing up, uh, who was responsible for setting standards of behavior?

00:22:00Uh, my parents no, no, I get your parents but which of your parents

00:22:04Oh my mom

00:22:06your mom

00:22:07Yeah, so how do I square the circle of your mom being responsible for setting up standards of behavior and your mom saying?

00:22:13I can't have any standards of behavior because you might not talk to me

00:22:23That's true, I don't know no, it's a genuine question i'm not trying to

00:22:28Unravel anything here. It's like because you said with regards to your

00:22:33Brothers, is she fiance now? Is that right fiance, right? Yeah. Yeah. So with regards to your brother's fiance

00:22:37She's like well, I can't really say anything because he might be upset with me or whatever, right?

00:22:41Yeah, so

00:22:42because you know often often it's the dad's job to

00:22:48You know, it's it's the mom's job to keep you you all alive when you're toddlers and your dad job to

00:22:53You know gives you some more objective rules because we tend to be a little less concerned about

00:22:58People being upset with us, right?

00:23:00Yeah

00:23:02Yeah, and and it might be like again like i'm speculating because my dad no, you can't speculate you were there

00:23:10You raised you grew up with these people, why do you need to speculate?

00:23:13Okay, what they mean is like for the one-on-one dad and son time. I don't know. No, no, but you were there

00:23:20And and it's not like it's not like you just have rules only for the sons and not the daughters, right?

00:23:26That's true

00:23:27so when you were growing up in your experience, how were

00:23:32Standards of behavior established and enforced or encouraged or modeled or whatever, right? Okay. Yeah. Sorry

00:23:39Okay, so we would have like family meetings and we would sit at the dining room table and both my parents would

00:23:45like

00:23:46Talk about whatever the issue was or the expectation and then we would have an open dialogue

00:23:52But we would not be allowed to leave the table until we had come to an understanding between everybody

00:23:58uh, right and

00:24:01How old was this from

00:24:03When you can remember like three or two or four or something like that or when did that all start to your knowledge?

00:24:09Oh

00:24:12I would say probably later than that. Like I would say I was probably

00:24:18Seven or eight like like the earliest I can really remember stuff. Okay

00:24:24And give me an example of an issue that would require the family meeting

00:24:31Oh

00:24:35And it doesn't have to be anything just roughly I don't know what kind of issues

00:24:39Is it like food shortages in somalia or like somebody stole something like what are you what are we talking?

00:24:45uh

00:24:46Yeah, I could just be if one of us did something wrong. So okay good like what then then they would no

00:24:54Like what like what what's wrong? Okay

00:24:56Uh stealing money from someone or stealing a toy or no, I think it was money

00:25:01Yeah, yes when we were at someone's house, they had money lying out

00:25:05and it was taken and then we all had the conversation of

00:25:10about

00:25:12Stealing and how it's wrong and like we had to obviously return the money. Okay, but sorry so how was it explained?

00:25:19Why it was wrong?

00:25:21I mean, it could just be thou shalt not steal. Are your parents religious? Yeah

00:25:25Well, not not particularly we did go to church growing up, but it wasn't

00:25:30Enforced but they weren't pointing at the ten commandments and saying

00:25:34God's, you know, it was more of just like would you like things stolen from you?

00:25:39No, but then again you contradict that when you ground people from things

00:25:45so

00:25:46I don't know

00:25:47Sorry, you you you you you left a big canyon there with that last thought that I wasn't able to jump with you

00:25:52So if you could circle back and give me a rope i'd appreciate it

00:25:55Just the grounding stuff with grounding with like taking things away

00:26:00from

00:26:01Oh, you couldn't steal things, but we'll take your freedom

00:26:05Okay, and was the grounding something that was inflicted as part of the family conversations or how did that work?

00:26:14Um

00:26:17No, actually I think they kind of

00:26:20Got away from that like as we got older

00:26:24And we were more involved like in those conversations

00:26:26Like I just remember being like grounded to your room and that was it when we were younger

00:26:32And then when we were older they would say like, okay

00:26:34Like this is what was that what this is what you did wrong. What do you think is a fair punishment?

00:26:41for

00:26:42What you did?

00:26:44And so it was a little bit more. Okay. Go ahead. It's very interesting too because so they didn't yell

00:26:49They didn't call names. They didn't hit right

00:26:52Uh when we were older, yes when we were younger we did get spanked and there was some name calling but

00:26:59when we were older

00:27:01That was another like we had a family meeting. Well, of course when you were older

00:27:05I mean, of course after puberty it's a creepy and b you're bigger

00:27:09So no. Well, no i'm saying like from like

00:27:13Five years old to like 10 years old somewhere in that time. So five or pre-five you're spanked

00:27:19Yeah, so my youngest brother didn't get spanked because they had stopped before then. Oh, okay

00:27:24um, but I think so like the big trigger was I

00:27:29Think I did something and I got slapped across the face

00:27:32and then

00:27:34um after that my parents sat down apologized to all of us and said going forward that they would never hit us again

00:27:41And that we would be having family meetings to decide punishment and that they would not be doing that anymore

00:27:47Okay, got it

00:27:50Right and when you look back upon your parents discipline, what are your thoughts about it?

00:27:55And I say this with a very neutral and open mind. I'm not trying to again. Oh, it's bad or it's good

00:27:59I'm, i'm just genuinely curious what your thoughts are about it

00:28:03yeah, I

00:28:06I hold no resentment to how

00:28:10Um

00:28:11They took they handled any of those things obviously like the younger days when we were spanked I

00:28:17Obviously hated that and and how often did that happen?

00:28:21Not very often. Um, i'd say like

00:28:26Maybe a couple times a year, but then it would be um

00:28:29The boys did get it a little like the two older boys did get it a little bit more than me

00:28:35Um, but once I did get yeah, once I got slapped then they were like, okay, we're done

00:28:41But yeah, no other than the hitting which they apologized for and we moved past that

00:28:48I would say like I think they handled

00:28:53Everything much better like it was more conversations not as aggressive

00:28:59and like just talking about it and like

00:29:01Realizing why what we did was wrong

00:29:05Um

00:29:05there was grounding still like

00:29:07if you did something with your phone, they would take your phone away for a certain period of time or if you

00:29:13Or like a certain toy or whatever that if you were like misusing they would take that away

00:29:19Okay

00:29:20And sorry, um, where are you in the birth order?

00:29:23First first. Okay. Got it

00:29:28And how did your brothers as a whole do into their teenage years

00:29:34Um

00:29:35the oldest of the three didn't had a rough have a rough go and I think it was school like he was

00:29:42one of three boys in his class

00:29:45And the other two boys were hockey players and he was a book smart kind of guy and didn't play any sports

00:29:51How many people in the class as a whole?

00:29:54uh

00:29:5626

00:29:5726

00:29:59Yeah

00:30:00Where are the boys?

00:30:02I know rather sinister

00:30:04It was it was well, we were french immersion and yeah, it was all girls that year. Oh, oh, so it was a french immersion school

00:30:12Uh, we were in french immersion program, but it was like a bilingual school. It was like a what?

00:30:18A bilingual. Okay, but why does that mean no boys? That's not by i've seen men speak french. I really have

00:30:25Yeah, no, I don't know. I don't know. I just

00:30:28Every like in that in his class, he was one of three boys. I don't know and then

00:30:34he just

00:30:35we just would like he would just go to school and come home and so it was like his home life or his

00:30:40Class and then once he got older, um, and then you had like more

00:30:44Um elective courses then obviously like more boys came around

00:30:49But it was more like elementary and middle school that he had

00:30:53Um that he only there was the two boys and they just bullied him the whole time

00:30:58So he had they bullied him. Okay. I didn't didn't know that. Okay. Okay. Oh, sorry

00:31:03Yeah, so he had a rough go of his teenager. Hang on. Hang on. Sorry, you know, I can't skate past the bullying thing

00:31:08Right. No, no problem. No problem. Okay, so

00:31:11Yeah at what age that you know of did he start getting bullied?

00:31:16uh

00:31:19Probably

00:31:21In middle school like grade five. Oh gosh. Okay, so pretty young. Okay. Yeah, so

00:31:27It's like what 10 or something like that? Okay

00:31:30And then how long did the bullying last for?

00:31:34Um, i'd say most of middle school like um, and our middle school was grade five to grade eight

00:31:41Okay, so like 10 to 13 or 14 or whatever it is. Okay. Yeah, and then

00:31:46There were just more boys around he got diluted or

00:31:49Yeah, pretty much and then and then going to the high school my dad is a high school teacher so

00:31:54um

00:31:55It almost worked like it almost worked as a protection like what?

00:32:01Once he reached hang on

00:32:04Okay, hold the phone hold the phone. Yeah, your father is a high school teacher

00:32:13And your brother got bullied for years

00:32:15In middle school, yeah, my parents like no, I I understand I understand hang on I understand

00:32:22I heard the middle school, okay

00:32:25Was it in the same school your father taught or a different school?

00:32:29Different school

00:32:31As my dad taught heights. So your father intimately knows the school system the administration

00:32:39Anti-bullying policies the fact that there is bullying. He knows all about these things, right?

00:32:44He's got absolute insider knowledge of the school system

00:32:49Yeah

00:32:50So how on earth did your brother get bullied for three or four years?

00:32:56Given all the knowledge your father has

00:32:59About the school system

00:33:01And what goes on?

00:33:08Hmm

00:33:10Hmm

00:33:13That is a good question, um

00:33:19I and like not like my youngest brother also had issues at the middle school

00:33:26and I just

00:33:29like

00:33:30I don't know

00:33:32They went through administration and like dealt with teachers and they went for after school

00:33:37Like talks with the teachers and so your parents stuff like that, but

00:33:41Yeah

00:33:43Okay, both of them wasn't solved. I know so you escalate don't you?

00:33:51Yeah

00:33:52I don't and if the problem still isn't solved you go and talk to the kids parents and if the kids

00:33:57If the problem still isn't solved you change schools and the problem still isn't solved you homeschool like

00:34:02How did the kids get bullied for three or four years?

00:34:06Yeah, that's true

00:34:09And meanwhile you're having family meetings about right and wrong

00:34:15How about its right to protect children from bullies

00:34:20That's true

00:34:24Help me understand i'm baffled

00:34:27I I can't I honestly like

00:34:31I don't know

00:34:32Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Yeah, you know, you know, sorry

00:34:36I know everyone keeps trying stuff with me even after 18 years, but yeah, you know

00:34:41I just yeah, i'm trying to think of like

00:34:44Like I know my my parents

00:34:48Did you know your youngest brothers were being bullied

00:34:51Well, yeah, i've also got bullied but I it just gets better and better. Okay. I know

00:34:57How long were you bullied for and when did that start?

00:34:59I was also in middle school all all four of us. It was middle school. Actually the one that's like

00:35:06That this call was about he was the one that got bullied the least in middle school. I would say and then I was

00:35:12Well, clearly that's why he's so sensitive the bullies didn't toughen him up. Anyway, just kidding. Oh, yeah. All right

00:35:18Um, so yeah three out of the four kids of the high school teacher got bullied in middle school

00:35:26Yes

00:35:27And how bad was the bullying of the worst one, right? Maybe that was one of you

00:35:33I assume it was one of your younger brothers. Maybe it was you but how bad was the bullying like what are we talking?

00:35:38yeah, like for me it was

00:35:40Just a little bit of like online back and forth with mean girls and then one girl like pulled down my skirt in the hallway

00:35:48But it wasn't anything like crazy

00:35:51um

00:35:53my um

00:35:54The next youngest brother was also just like a lot of verbal abuse. Uh, he did get

00:36:00uh, just call like he has

00:36:03I don't just calling him names and like four eyes and

00:36:08um

00:36:12Gosh I don't even

00:36:14He never really talked to me about that part. I don't know. He just I guess didn't want to talk about it at home, but

00:36:21Okay, being called four eyes is not exactly like being dangled off a cliff i'm

00:36:26So I just that's why i'm not trying to minimize it. I just want to understand the severity

00:36:30yeah, no, I just

00:36:32It was just he said it was just verbal bullying one time. He did get like punched by another kid

00:36:38And I think that happens to just about every kid at some point

00:36:42I was just like oh just boys being boys. I didn't really think too much about it

00:36:47um, and then

00:36:49Um, I and then the next brother he's a lot like bigger and bulkier

00:36:53So like I think he got in a fight once because someone was picking on him, but then he like stood up for himself

00:36:59so then they never did it again, whereas

00:37:03um the older brother he

00:37:06Has never really been able to stand up for himself

00:37:10And then the young sorry, sorry

00:37:13Oh

00:37:14He's never really been able to stand up for himself. Okay

00:37:17So, uh, let's say that there's a situation where there's bullying

00:37:21and

00:37:22of course

00:37:23You can teach your kids verbal defense skills

00:37:26But if there's physical bullying you can take them to martial arts

00:37:30You can teach them how to box you can you know, get them stronger and and teach them how to fight

00:37:37And so that they can defend themselves, right?

00:37:39Yeah, he eventually did get into wrestling. I think I'm talking about this. I'm talking about the time in middle school

00:37:46Yeah, oh, yeah

00:37:49Yeah, did your parents did your parents who were unable to solve it I guess

00:37:53Administratively, right?

00:37:54But did your parents teach them how to box or or teach them at least some verbal arts of self-defense?

00:37:59how to sling insults back how to humiliate kids and so on or

00:38:03Do you know if your parents talked to the other kids parents or anything like that?

00:38:07I think they talked to the other kids parents

00:38:09But that didn't work, right?

00:38:11but

00:38:13Yeah, I don't think I think that just made it worse

00:38:16Like okay, so making it worse then means that you're definitely going to need to kid teach your kids some martial skills, right?

00:38:22Yeah, okay, but did that happen?

00:38:24It didn't and it could have partially been my brother like he's not interested in that but he should have like been like, okay

00:38:32I need to learn how to stand up for myself. So I don't know why he didn't

00:38:36Take it take the opportunity. What was the opportunity given?

00:38:40Yeah, and what was what was given to him oh my my mom has like has always

00:38:47um been like

00:38:49pushing us to

00:38:51Get into different activities to learn strengths and skills. So like I did a lot of sports

00:38:57I didn't really learn

00:38:58Self-defense stuff, but my brother was given the option to do karate

00:39:03um to do

00:39:05uh

00:39:06Okay, so so sorry sorry to interrupt so so then if your brother doesn't want to learn how to physically defend himself

00:39:13Okay, I whatever I mean, i'm not gonna fault that right? But then you just have to keep

00:39:20Trying things till you get a solution, right?

00:39:22I mean the answer isn't just let your kids be bullied. Is it?

00:39:26No, and but that was the answer, right?

00:39:29Yeah

00:39:30I would say like he

00:39:32Did learn and I don't know like he's pretty good at standing up for himself verbally now like he's really

00:39:41The the one in question

00:39:43No, okay. The other one one of the other ones. Okay

00:39:47Yeah, okay. Got it

00:39:49And the brother could we just call the brother in question bob?

00:39:53Sure. Okay, so bob

00:39:56Was bullied, right?

00:39:58Not for very long because he

00:40:01Stood up for himself physically

00:40:03Okay, got it. Got it. Okay

00:40:06Yeah, all right. Um, but I would I would assume that there was um some loss of credibility on the part of the parents, right?

00:40:15Yes, the parents were unable

00:40:17to protect

00:40:20Their children from the bullies, right? Yes. Now the bullies knew that ahead of time

00:40:27You

00:40:29Right, that's why you your brothers were bullied because

00:40:32The bullies knew that your parents wouldn't protect them

00:40:36right

00:40:37like

00:40:38So there had to be some bond that was missing

00:40:41I'm, not saying there was no bond but some part of the bond was missing

00:40:45Because bullies, of course they pick on people who don't have a strong enough bond with their parents that their parents will do

00:40:50Whatever is necessary

00:40:52in order to

00:40:54Protect their children

00:40:57Does that make sense

00:40:58Yes, and like one thing i'll like mention that like I know my parents got into an argument over

00:41:05Was like my brother had said something along the lines of like I really don't like this kid because he's

00:41:12Really? He was really mean to me like growing up or whatever and then my dad had made a comment

00:41:18Oh, but he's such a nice student for me

00:41:21And my mom lost him and was like how dare you take that kid's side over your own son and they had like a big

00:41:29argument about that and my

00:41:30Well, she stood up for my brother and stuff. But yeah, like okay, but when was this?

00:41:36When he was already like in high school and stuff. It was long after the bullying your mother decides to stand up for your brother

00:41:43Yeah, well

00:41:45One conversation I was witness to but yes, right. Okay. Okay

00:41:49no, i'm just i'm just trying to figure out what's what's going on here as far as like the

00:41:57It's odd that a family that would be doing some, you know

00:42:00Genuinely admirable things like stopping spanking and trying to reason with the kids and so on. I mean, it's still a punishment based family

00:42:07Yeah, which I don't like or agree with but you know, I mean it's still obviously

00:42:13Of the families that i've heard this is like

00:42:16Shining examples of virtue in a way. So i'm trying to figure out what

00:42:20Is is going on with the with the teenagers?

00:42:24So how was the teenage life for you?

00:42:28Um

00:42:29It was good. I made a lot of stupid mistakes after I turned 16

00:42:34so it was

00:42:36uh, like stealing and

00:42:39No, no, you'd had family meetings about that

00:42:43Yeah, I didn't did you not but you were part of those family meetings, weren't you?

00:42:47Yeah, I think all of the stealing was me always

00:42:50Ah, okay. So why do you think you were stealing?

00:42:55Well, I was saying this to my husband the other day but well

00:42:59Back you mean the man whose heart you stole? Hello

00:43:04Still stealing I see

00:43:06Yes, I never got away from that I guess

00:43:09Um, no my dad's mom

00:43:12um, she

00:43:15was

00:43:16Stealing books back in the day

00:43:19and giving them to us as gifts because she was volunteering at a library or something and then

00:43:23All my parents like my parents and my aunts and uncles found out about it

00:43:28and then my parents

00:43:30Told her like like they cut her out of our lives and they said we can't

00:43:34um associate with you until you deal with all these issues like that, that's not something we want to

00:43:41Portray for our children blah blah blah. So they cut her out

00:43:44And then my brother had said like oh

00:43:47Is grandma done her time out yet?

00:43:50And so they were like, oh, well, we don't want our kids to miss out on time with grandma

00:43:55You don't know how much time she has left blah blah blah. So they let her back in. Okay, so sorry. I I just

00:44:02I'm just trying to lever my jaw off the floor here

00:44:07Okay, because I I'm I'm so twisted I make a pretzel look like a pencil at this point in the story

00:44:14Oh, yeah, so your grandmother takes some books from a library and gives it to her grandkids

00:44:20Yes

00:44:21That is absolutely unacceptable and worthy of banishment from the family

00:44:26Yes

00:44:28Only fans though

00:44:30Is just kind of inappropriate and you don't want to upset people

00:44:35Oh my god, are you kidding me?

00:44:39Okay, i'm glad i'm not the only one that feels that way no like

00:44:46Help me figure this out. I mean I mean

00:44:50My gosh, I mean libraries first of all half, you know, 95% of the books are never taken out

00:44:54They're often just piles of them at the back that are going to be remaindered or whatever, right?

00:44:59That's all i'm not saying it's fine to take them but you know, it's not only fans

00:45:04So only if your grandmother had been doing only fans, it would have been fine

00:45:08But she took some books from a library and gave them to her grandkids and that is unacceptable

00:45:14Banworthy ostracism

00:45:17Scimitar through the entire family bond because some books

00:45:21Of questionable origin made their way

00:45:24Yeah to the grandchildren

00:45:27But that's what I had said to my husband I said maybe because they let grandma back in when she stole that it wouldn't matter

00:45:34If I stole because my family would let me back in kind of thing

00:45:38And I don't know. I think I was just having a one

00:45:45Hang on

00:45:47I need to understand this now because your parents aren't on the line, but you know them well

00:45:52How does this make sense

00:45:56That only fans is fine

00:45:59As is sleeping with two of their sons

00:46:02As is half whorn around in bars

00:46:05For free drinks with cleavage while and engaged to someone

00:46:09Right all of that is fine

00:46:14Or, you know at the worst inappropriate

00:46:16You know at the worst inappropriate

00:46:20But grandma giving some lightly pilfered books to the grandchildren

00:46:25Is a crime beyond redemption

00:46:29Yeah

00:46:30No, no, I need to understand this because there's reasoning behind it. I just have no idea what it is

00:46:36It doesn't make any sense to me. No, it will make sense. We just don't know the reasoning

00:46:40Okay

00:46:42You

00:46:45How long was grandma banished for

00:46:48Uh

00:46:51A year or two, I think a year or two

00:46:56Yeah

00:46:57So they refused to talk

00:47:01Sorry, whose mother your mom's or your dad's my dad. Yeah. Okay

00:47:04So your parents refused to talk to your dad's mother for a year or two

00:47:09Mm-hmm because of these books, yeah

00:47:18What and and I assume you guys had pretty tight relations with your grandma, right she's bringing books and stuff like that, right

00:47:26Oh, yeah, we had the best time with that grandma. She was the best

00:47:30All my grandparents are divorced and remarried and out of all of them. She was the one that like

00:47:35Did everything for her grandkids?

00:47:38So they got rid of the best grandparent and now are inviting one of the worst conceivable in-laws or

00:47:44Daughters-in-law into the family. Yes

00:47:48Okay, so come on like what's what's the truth about it? Oh, it's so frustrating

00:47:54Sorry, no, no emotions are fine. I feel them too. Like this is this is crazy making

00:48:02Yeah

00:48:04There had to be something going on other than this book stuff

00:48:08Well, if there was i'm not privy to it

00:48:12But i've seen the relationship ever since how is it between your dad and his mom? Oh, she passed away shortly after

00:48:20Oh, no, oh please that just I my heart just cracked honestly

00:48:24Yeah, that's one of the saddest things i've heard in a long time

00:48:28Yeah, we got her back in our lives and no no not you

00:48:32I mean, obviously it matters to you. But what i'm thinking of is

00:48:35your parents

00:48:37Took your grandmother's last couple of years with her grandkids

00:48:41Yeah over some library books

00:48:44Yeah

00:48:45That is savage

00:48:50Yeah, so she had maybe three years left and they took one or two of those away

00:48:58In her golden years

00:49:00In her sunset years, they took her grandkids away from her

00:49:04And then right after or shortly after she came back into your lives she died

00:49:11Yeah, I think it was like five years later she had a stroke oh five years later, okay, so yeah right after it wasn't

00:49:17Yeah, sorry. It wasn't like the next year or something. It was we did get another like five years, I think

00:49:22Okay, how was her health over those five years then?

00:49:26Good like she seemed

00:49:28Like she was overweight and stuff, but otherwise seemed like perfectly fine

00:49:34and then uh

00:49:35Okay, so could the reason I was the reason we got into this is I was asking about your dad's relationship with his mom

00:49:41And you said well, you didn't see much of it because she died or whatever, but I guess

00:49:47Yeah, so yeah that was that was his mom and then

00:49:51You know, you still haven't answered the question though, right? It's fine if you don't know but sorry

00:49:55I don't I'd like at least for the question to be acknowledged if that's all right

00:49:59Yeah, what was sorry? What was the question? How was your dad's relationship with his mom?

00:50:04Oh, uh, well before that they were pretty close

00:50:09um

00:50:11they my dad

00:50:14Like

00:50:16I'll go into this whole history thing. My dad was

00:50:20Raised by his mom alone. My dad or my grandpa was not in the picture until later in his life

00:50:26So he was very close with his mom

00:50:29Well, why why this unusual situation?

00:50:32Oh gosh my sperm in and following by boat, what does that mean?

00:50:38To be polite

00:50:41I'm, not gonna be polite, but my grandma was a bit of a whore

00:50:44and she got

00:50:46She got pregnant with my aunt

00:50:49um

00:50:50From one guy and then married my grandpa and had four more kids

00:50:54And then cheated on him and had someone else's kid

00:50:58so

00:50:59he left her and

00:51:01he wanted to be

00:51:03Still in the kids lives, but she because she was pissed at him for leaving her

00:51:09Um said he wasn't allowed in the kids lives. Sorry. Just rewind that for a sec. I just missed that last bit

00:51:16Uh, my grandma refused to let my grandpa see

00:51:20the kids

00:51:21After he told her he was divorcing her for cheating

00:51:25So my dad didn't really know his dad until he was in his 20s

00:51:31And how old was your dad when his dad left oh

00:51:35uh

00:51:36cheating

00:51:37I want to say two

00:51:39Oh my gosh

00:51:40Yeah

00:51:41Okay, so he was unfathered

00:51:44Yes. Well, he had a uh a stepdad

00:51:49Okay, but the stepdad was not a great guy

00:51:52Oh, so and did he like his own father his biological father better?

00:51:57He yes

00:51:59Okay, so then he's mad at his mom. I assume for getting rid of the good guy and bringing in the bad guy

00:52:06Yeah, that would

00:52:09That would make sense because I mean libraries are

00:52:13Giant cathedrals of thievery anyway

00:52:15Because they buy one book and then everyone gets to read it and the author doesn't get paid anymore

00:52:20Anymore

00:52:22So I have a tough time seeing stealing some library books as you know, anyway, so

00:52:29okay, so your

00:52:32Father had some significant issues with his mother I assume and how bad was his stepdad?

00:52:38uh, he was an alcoholic and

00:52:41the

00:52:42uh verbally and physically abusive, but my dad like he doesn't

00:52:48Say anything of like that. He got abused

00:52:52physically

00:52:53Um, I just like I actually like we had a family

00:52:57Gathering and I was asking some of my aunts

00:53:00kind of how was your childhood when you were growing up and um

00:53:05My aunts said that the worst because they're the older siblings

00:53:10um, they said that my grandma was

00:53:13the hard one to live with and not

00:53:16The husband and why

00:53:19uh, just that she's very

00:53:22um

00:53:25Controlling and like everything has to be about her

00:53:29and

00:53:30I i've heard I think it's you talk about it about like how like

00:53:33The women are trying like they think of the um their children if a woman is raising children

00:53:39Then they see them as like competition

00:53:41If that doesn't happen, yeah

00:53:43yeah, I think that's kind of what they felt was um, she was very hard on all of the girls, um,

00:53:52And didn't treat them very well, but then my dad very abstract and hard on didn't travel hard

00:53:58Right. What does that mean? Do you know do you need do you know any specifics?

00:54:02um

00:54:05Just

00:54:08Trying to think of what my aunt said

00:54:11uh

00:54:14I don't know any specifics. I'm, sorry

00:54:18She moved out she moved out at 16 because she couldn't handle living with my grandma

00:54:23And that like my dad and my dad's a twin

00:54:26So my dad and the twin brother were like the golden child children because they were the boys and all the girls were

00:54:33Were riffraff or something. Okay

00:54:37Okay

00:54:40All right, so we've got a grandmother

00:54:42Who you said was kind of a whore. Was that the wrong?

00:54:46kind of slutty or like like

00:54:48well, I mean

00:54:50She has all these kids from different men. So I just

00:54:53Gotta say that. Okay, so

00:54:56You have a grandmother who's sexually irresponsible. Please tell me she wasn't short and overweight

00:55:02Oh, yeah, she was

00:55:05See

00:55:07Do you see where i'm going with this? Okay, I see it

00:55:12There are no coincidences in the unconscious

00:55:17Oh my god

00:55:19Why did I close your brother bob to your grandma?

00:55:24Um

00:55:26He was very very young when she passed away. So

00:55:30uh

00:55:31kind of been that young because if

00:55:34No, it can't have been that young. I'm sorry to obviously don't mean to tell you a history

00:55:37maybe i'm sure i've got my math wrong, but

00:55:40If she was handing out books to the kids you had to be of reading age

00:55:44And then she was gone for a year or two and then she was back and around for five

00:55:49Yeah, so he can't have been that young

00:55:52You're right. Um, I never win at math. So this is quite exciting for me

00:55:59Well, so I was in grade six when she passed away

00:56:03And he is six years younger than me so he would have been in grade one

00:56:08Okay, got it. Got it. So he's like six five or six. Yeah, okay

00:56:13Okay

00:56:16But like because

00:56:17My the older brother and I we were talking about our grandma and then I was asking the younger two

00:56:22I said what kind of memories do you have about grandma and both the youngest two said they didn't have any memories

00:56:29Okay, so if your father was raised by a woman of questionable

00:56:35Sexual fidelity i'm trying to be as nice as possible here, right? Yes

00:56:39So if you're I don't I won't use the phrase turbo slut because that just seems seems disrespectful

00:56:44But if your father was raised by this loose woman

00:56:49And he was the golden boy. So did he have positive relations with her? Did he?

00:56:54Look up to her. Did he love her?

00:56:57Yes

00:56:58From what I can see. Yes, and like because when I talked to my aunts like even my dad made a comment

00:57:03He was like wow

00:57:04It's totally different like hearing your side of things than mine

00:57:08Because I had a great time with mom growing up kind of thing. He would have noticed that his sisters were treated

00:57:14badly, wouldn't he

00:57:17Uh, maybe I maybe he just doesn't remember but you would think come on

00:57:23doesn't remember

00:57:25Your direct siblings being treated badly for years

00:57:29Yeah

00:57:32I'm trying to yeah, no

00:57:35Okay, so if he's I guess bonded with this woman of loose morals

00:57:41Then what's your mom like

00:57:47My mom also had a rough childhood

00:57:50um

00:57:51she

00:57:52had an abusive

00:57:54alcoholic father

00:57:56Who ended up in jail?

00:57:59and my grandma

00:58:03Uh like

00:58:05Just like disorderly conduct or something I think so not like like a big time criminal just

00:58:12No, just like just spend a night drunk tank

00:58:15Yes

00:58:16Yeah, like he was in there for I want to say like a six month period or maybe two years or something like that

00:58:22But it was that's more than drunken disorderly

00:58:25I'm, no lawyer, but man, that's like a lot more than drunken disorderly

00:58:30I honestly haven't asked that's some serious stuff and almost always requires some fairly serious priors

00:58:37Yeah

00:58:38My amateur understanding but anyway

00:58:41Yeah, I I didn't I didn't ask why

00:58:45Okay, and what happened to your mom when she was young or what did she do?

00:58:49Uh, particularly as a teenager because before that you don't really have any choices

00:58:53Yeah, well my grandma

00:58:57um, so her mom met

00:59:00her now husband whatever and they were planning to move and my

00:59:05Both my parents like they moved around a lot when they were young

00:59:08Um, and so my mom moved around by their parents. Yes. Okay. Got it. Sorry

00:59:13um, and so my mom was 16 and she's like mom, I don't want to move to montreal like I want to stay here in

00:59:21calgary or wherever it was and

00:59:23um finished my high school years and

00:59:27Um, I want to graduate with my friends and blah blah blah

00:59:30And she was dating my dad at that time

00:59:33And so how old was she?

00:59:3516. Okay

00:59:37And so my grandma said you can

00:59:40either come with me

00:59:41across the country or

00:59:43You can stay here on your own. So she moved in with my dad at 16

00:59:48and what how old

00:59:51Uh, he's five years older than her so she would have been 22 21

00:59:57At the time

01:00:00Uh, and he was in university for his teaching sorry, i'm just trying to picture my daughter

01:00:08Right, sorry, i'm just gonna picture my daughter

01:00:13In not too long in not too many months moving in with a guy who's 21 or 22

01:00:21Yeah

01:00:22And what do you think of this?

01:00:25Well, obviously I

01:00:29Yeah, well I did I would not approve that for my children and I

01:00:33like my mom is still

01:00:36Resentful of that and like she's still what that could refer to so many different things here

01:00:43uh of her mom

01:00:45Basically giving her the ultimatum and just leaving her basically. Well, hang on. Hang on. How is um?

01:00:51Is it an ultimatum or a choice? She said you can come with me or you can stay here

01:00:57Oh, the ultimatum was that your grandmother was sorry that your yeah, your grandmother wasn't going to stay

01:01:02Yeah, my grandma was leaving whether she wanted to come or not. So

01:01:06So she passed the 16 year old into the loving arms of the 21 year old so she could boot it to another province

01:01:15Yes, okay. Got it

01:01:17Yeah

01:01:18and

01:01:19This isn't even I mean you sound like quite a young lady. So this isn't even you know, like the 1940s or something. So

01:01:26um, so

01:01:28Did your parents get married?

01:01:31Yes, um, they got married when my mom was

01:01:3621

01:01:38Yeah, so they've been together for like half a decade

01:01:40Yeah, my dad finished school. My mom graduated high school

01:01:45Um, they dated for whatever five four or five years, sorry they dated

01:01:51Well lived together

01:01:54But I mean that's not that's not fair to say. I mean if I say to a woman let's go on a date

01:01:58I don't hand out the keys to my apartment true very true

01:02:01Okay, so they lived together for five years. Yeah boyfriend girlfriend and then they got married five years later

01:02:08Was that legal at the time?

01:02:10I don't know I guess I don't know man. Those statutory laws are pretty harsh

01:02:16It's I don't think it would be legal now. And again, you don't have to give me any more geographical details

01:02:20But i'm pretty sure it wouldn't be legal now

01:02:23Yeah

01:02:24Not sure. I doubt those laws changed but uh,

01:02:28Yeah, that would be that would be statutory rape. I think in many places

01:02:32Yeah, because the age gap is too big, right? Yes

01:02:37Because she was a child

01:02:39To us. Well, yeah, isn't the isn't it like six?

01:02:43Isn't there a thing though that you can move out at 16?

01:02:47Well, that that's not the issue. The issue isn't the moving out

01:02:50The issue is the moving in

01:02:52Yes at the sexual activity with a man half a decade older who's legally an adult and you're legally a child

01:02:59true

01:03:03Yeah, okay

01:03:09And

01:03:12Did she

01:03:14Established decent relations with her own mom your mom or how did that go?

01:03:19Yeah, my mom and her mom

01:03:21are

01:03:23Good now and she like my my grandma was at my mom's wedding and she ended up moving back to the area

01:03:30a few years later

01:03:32Oh, she came back. Anyway, okay. Yeah, but by then it was too I guess it was too late for you

01:03:38Mom to move back in because she was already with your dad. Okay. Yeah

01:03:42and

01:03:44Yeah, she

01:03:45My mom did not have my grandpa at her wedding or her dad at her wedding

01:03:51Um, but since then like my grandpa did remarry

01:03:55Um, and my mom

01:03:57Like had him back in her life at that point

01:04:00He was like he met his new wife at like the aa meetings and was getting help and stuff

01:04:06Um

01:04:07But she has since passed

01:04:09And so my grandpa's alone and my mom

01:04:12Tries to reach out like once a week or so to just check on him

01:04:15but they don't have like a super great relationship and

01:04:19I don't think she really needs to have much more of one but

01:04:23He's she's really all he has so okay

01:04:27She makes an effort to kind of be there

01:04:30What's going on with the youngest brother these days?

01:04:33Uh, he is he is in a good place he's actually getting married on saturday

01:04:40He okay. Sorry then I thought sorry then you said there was a brother. I thought it was the youngest who wasn't doing well

01:04:47No, the the middle two are not doing the youngest is in a good place. His fiancee

01:04:53is

01:04:53wonderful and they

01:04:56um, I don't know they're they're very level-headed and very

01:05:00Um open-minded and like

01:05:04They're a lot like my husband and I okay with regard

01:05:07So we've got bob who's got the only fans girl, and then we've got another brother

01:05:13You said the middle two so bob's one of the middle two and then there's the other brother who's not doing as well

01:05:17And what's his story?

01:05:20Uh, he

01:05:23I don't know. He graduated high school stayed living with my parents for a while

01:05:27Moved out on his own. He's just been kind of like working one job or like he's been fired from

01:05:33I don't even know how many jobs a lot

01:05:35um

01:05:36He never got his license. Sorry. Why is he why did he get fired?

01:05:40uh

01:05:41He doesn't work well with others

01:05:44He is very

01:05:46um

01:05:47Like once he gets taught a specific way to do something

01:05:51If there's anyone that cuts corners he like calls them out in front of everyone he offends

01:05:57No, people don't know i've been a boss people don't get fired for demanding quality

01:06:02Yeah, but it's his I don't I don't want to even say tone because he just speaks like a

01:06:09most men do when they're like trying to be directive, but

01:06:13No, like if if I make a mistake in a podcast and someone who works with me says

01:06:18Hey, Steph, this podcast is not up to quality because there's this mistake in it. What do I say?

01:06:23Yeah, I don't fire them

01:06:25See, thank you

01:06:27No, he just like he'll he gets to a breaking point where he'll like snap and then he'll

01:06:34Yell or swear. Okay, so it's verbal abuse or yelling. It's not demanding quality

01:06:41Yeah, you're you're right, sorry, I know no i'm i'm not trying to nitpick I just

01:06:46I I know that some workplaces can be dysfunctional, but you can't get repeatedly fired

01:06:51For pointing out that a worker is doing a bad job because the boss is usually

01:06:55Desperately and the person who's doing the bad job gets fired over time. Not you

01:06:59Yeah, okay. Right. Okay. So and then kind of volatile and mouthy and yelly, right?

01:07:05Yeah, and then so he wasn't doing well

01:07:08living at home and he was like not respecting my parents and he was just

01:07:13Not I don't know they just they were butting heads all the time so then

01:07:17Uh right after I got married. I said, hey, why don't you come move up here?

01:07:22Much to my husband's dismay

01:07:24And I let him oh, sorry shortly after you got married. You invited a brother to come live with you

01:07:30Yeah, not a not a proud moment, but hang on hang on

01:07:35I was trying to hang on hang on

01:07:37Hang on if you don't mind. Yes

01:07:43Why would your husband say yes to that

01:07:47Um, oh have you got a really nice guy

01:07:51I think he's very sensitive and thoughtful. No, no, he's

01:07:56well, he is

01:07:57very thoughtful, but

01:07:59um

01:08:00No, I I think he was just letting me learn from my own mistake. I don't know

01:08:06What

01:08:07I don't know you say I want my brother to come live with us and you're like we're newly married

01:08:12I don't want anyone else living here unless it's a kid

01:08:16Yeah, I think yeah, I know. So why did he not?

01:08:21Well, he didn't want

01:08:24Him to okay. So why did he then because you're the team right?

01:08:27You don't do one you don't do if I just said to my wife. I want to move to the yukon

01:08:31Do you think she said?

01:08:34Well, I I don't

01:08:37I don't know. I because I had said I was like just for a short period of time

01:08:40Like give him a few months to get a job save up money to get a place and then he can move out newlyweds

01:08:47They rent while he lives here newlyweds. Yeah, I know

01:08:53I mean it could come just down to I I want some privacy so we can make some noise or something like

01:09:00I mean, that's like the least romantic thing

01:09:02Let me get my dysfunctional mouthy brother to come live with us right after we get married

01:09:07Yeah, I because you there's a problem here with male authority. That's why i'm sort of harping on this

01:09:13Yeah, because your father doesn't say boo to a mouse about only fans girl

01:09:18Yeah, and your husband

01:09:20Are you guys got to be terrifying? Holy crap? I'm getting good already

01:09:25Oh, no, what are you doing to these poor men?

01:09:28Thanks

01:09:30No, why would your husband not say no

01:09:34I don't know

01:09:37Um, I maybe I just put him in a position where he felt like he couldn't say no maybe I

01:09:42I'm trying to remember. How do you do that though?

01:09:46Because here's the thing you're trying to have authority over your brother, right?

01:09:51in a sense

01:09:52Yeah, I was just trying yeah

01:09:53I was trying to help if you guys if you and your mom because

01:09:56There's something going on here like with with male authority, right?

01:09:59And and this is your dad and your husband and i'm not faulting either of them. I'm just trying to

01:10:04Oh, you're 100

01:10:05You're 100 right and like that's like i've told my husband I was like my mom wore the pants in the relationship

01:10:11and I need to learn not to do that and

01:10:15Like I will submit to you and like i'm trying to like work on myself in that sense

01:10:20and well, no, but but this your house, I mean

01:10:23So when you said I want my brother to come live with us

01:10:26You said I was I sort of made it so my husband couldn't say no

01:10:30But that's not a that's not possible for you to do

01:10:32I mean if you got a gun to his head, but I assume you didn't

01:10:35uh, so

01:10:38How does your

01:10:39How do you maneuver things or I guess how does your mother maneuver things?

01:10:42So that your husband and your father can't say no or assert

01:10:47some healthy authority

01:10:49Yeah

01:10:53Because your brother's being bob is being pushed around by the only fans girl too, right

01:10:59Okay, so there's some pushing around of the men that's going on here or

01:11:02Something i'm not trying to call you pushy or anything

01:11:04I'm, just sort of trying to trying to puzzle this out like why why why could the men?

01:11:09Why do the men not have as much of a voice as maybe they could?

01:11:14Um

01:11:17I don't know. I feel like I like I

01:11:20Say all my I don't know how to

01:11:29Because there's generally only one reason why men there's generally only one reason why men get pushed around by women

01:11:36Sorry, because I cry

01:11:37I

01:11:38I'm a manipulative with my crying

01:11:41I'm, sorry you asking me or telling me

01:11:44No, i'm i'm telling you I would say that's probably why because I know that my mom

01:11:49Cried a lot to get her way and I like i'm trying to work on that with myself because I know that about me

01:11:55No, but I mean doesn't

01:11:57Don't men just laugh at that

01:12:00Like, you know nice try waterworks, but let's try reasoning about this

01:12:05Yes, then he has been working with me on that or but no, no, no, you don't work you don't work with the woman on that

01:12:12That's begging for authority you can't beg for authority. Oh, no

01:12:18You don't give him permission to have authority

01:12:22Honey, can I have some authority, please?

01:12:25Please sir. Can I have some more? What is he oliver?

01:12:29Authority is a bowl of porridge

01:12:35Yeah

01:12:38I'm not I mean I remember a friend of mine many years ago

01:12:41He was living with a woman and the woman's sister wanted to come and live with them for the summer

01:12:47Because she had some job or like in toronto or something like that, right?

01:12:51And uh, I was like, oh how much rent is she paying?

01:12:55And he's like, no, she's not paying rent. She's family. I'm like, but she's working

01:13:00Yeah, you're giving up a portion of your house

01:13:03And she's an adult right? She wasn't a kid. She's an adult and adults pay rent

01:13:08Yeah, oh I could never uh, it's like well, no, you know, your wife would never right?

01:13:16Yeah, but I mean

01:13:19Sorry, it's not because women cry

01:13:22That I don't know defer to women

01:13:25Yeah

01:13:27Oh

01:13:28Yeah, it's it I said it's sort of one reason but it's two sides of the same coin

01:13:32they're afraid of

01:13:34losing sexual access

01:13:37Right and that's either because the woman won't have sex with them or because uh, the woman will threaten to leave

01:13:45Right

01:13:47Because women of course, you know, you're in a marriage you're in a monogamy relationship

01:13:51and so if you don't

01:13:54If you don't if you withhold sex i'm not saying you would right i'm just saying for women as a whole, right?

01:13:58But if you withhold sex because you're upset, right?

01:14:01uh, then

01:14:02What's he he's got no options right?

01:14:04It's not a war he can win because because you know men have very high sex drives and you know

01:14:0914 times their testosterone and i'm not saying women don't have sex drives

01:14:11Of course you all do but it's you know, often a little bit easier for women to withhold than for men

01:14:17to not get access so

01:14:19in general women

01:14:22have that

01:14:23and the tears are sort of part of it like

01:14:25I'm, so upset. I don't know when i'm going to feel close to you again

01:14:28And generally the the deal is and i'm not again i'm not saying this is true with you and your husband

01:14:32But generally the deal is i'm going to be upset which means

01:14:36You're not going to get any sexual access or romantic or cuddle affection or kisses or hugs

01:14:41Until you give me what I want and then i'll feel better and closer to you and can resume our sex life

01:14:46Sure

01:14:49Yeah, I don't

01:14:51Like in my relationship, I don't think that is the case

01:14:56Well, but he caves i've never I so we don't really know do we

01:15:01No, it's true. Like no what?

01:15:03What if he had said let's play this up? What if he had said, uh, no, no, yeah

01:15:07Yeah, come on. We're just newly married. You know, we we're here to have some fun before the kids come and uh, no

01:15:13You you I mean, no, your brother can't come and live with us. Sorry

01:15:17Okay, so then you're upset and this and that and the other okay, so then what?

01:15:20Well, I if he had said no I I would have

01:15:24Conceded

01:15:26But you were it wasn't

01:15:28I would have been like oh, well

01:15:31Yeah, I probably would have cried

01:15:33No, you're like I just want to help my brother like get into a better place

01:15:37Yeah, and I would then say well

01:15:39But you're married to me and your brother's a grown-ass adult so he can pay his own rent

01:15:43That's that's exactly what he said when he kicked him out

01:15:46Okay, but how and how long did you i'm frightened to ask you how long did this remora attach himself to you?

01:15:52How long did your brother? Uh, he was

01:15:55Not even six months

01:15:57Okay, so you've had a couple of months

01:15:59Yeah, he moved up. Hang on. I helped him get his license. You said a couple of months

01:16:06And your husband had to kick him out after six months

01:16:10So you lied, oh no, no, no, so i'm sorry i'm sorry i missed said that to you

01:16:16I had told him because we were we had a coveted wedding. So we were planning to

01:16:21Have a second wedding a bigger wedding on the year anniversary kind of thing

01:16:27Of our wedding. So I said I had said

01:16:30That point which would have been

01:16:33Eight months and he was out. I think he was out for a year

01:16:36Eight months and he was out I think at five months

01:16:41Oh, so you wanted you said my brother's going to come and stay for eight months

01:16:45I I asked him I said this would be the longest point because that's what we had planned to start trying for kids

01:16:52Okay, I understand. I understand. So, okay, I withdraw that I apologize. That's that's unjust and unfair. So

01:16:58Okay, so why did your husband kick him out?

01:17:02Uh, because my brother's a slob

01:17:05And i'm great

01:17:06Sorry a a slob and what?

01:17:09Ungrateful. Okay. So if your brother's an ungrateful slob

01:17:14Why would you want him to come and live with you?

01:17:19Um

01:17:25I

01:17:26Okay, whose idea was it?

01:17:28It was my idea

01:17:30Okay. So what what problem and how old was your brother at this point?

01:17:35uh

01:17:37He would have been 25

01:17:3925. Okay. So he's he's been an adult for seven years

01:17:44Yes, okay

01:17:45Your mother was living with a man at 16. Nine years later. This guy can't hold a job

01:17:52No nine years older

01:17:55Okay, so

01:17:58What was the thinking behind this

01:18:01Uh

01:18:05I don't know I

01:18:10I was trying to

01:18:14Uh make amends I guess I was not

01:18:17Like when he was going through his bullying

01:18:20I was not supportive of him

01:18:23and I was

01:18:25like just kind of in my own world and was

01:18:28Like didn't really care about him at that time. He was my annoying little brother

01:18:32And so I

01:18:34Didn't really care like out of all my siblings. He's like

01:18:37I was your parents, but your parents were modeling that too because your parents didn't go to the mat for him either

01:18:44true

01:18:46Okay, but I okay. I was sorry. I had started listening to you

01:18:51And I was trying to work on myself and apologize to my siblings for the ways that I treated them growing up

01:18:58And then I wanted to make amends by doing something for my brother

01:19:03Okay

01:19:05Now did you say to your husband?

01:19:07He's an ungrateful slob

01:19:10Like did you prepare your husband for how your brother was going to be

01:19:14When you were suggesting that he move in

01:19:16I did say that he was messy

01:19:19And my husband like had said like he's only allowed to be in his room that he's renting

01:19:26And I don't want him so he was renting so he's paying rent

01:19:29Yes, he was paying rent

01:19:30So how is that amends if you're charging rent?

01:19:36Well

01:19:37I got him the job at the place that I was a manager

01:19:42At what and I was letting him use my car

01:19:47Hang on

01:19:49You got your brother who always gets fired a job

01:19:53Yeah, I know I know it was stupid he got fired from there too after I went on that

01:20:00Of course he did. Okay, so you got your brother a job. How long did he last?

01:20:06uh

01:20:08Like a year and a half I think oh, but that's not bad

01:20:12No, he worked on the overnight shift. So he only had to work with two other people

01:20:17So, okay, so I thought you're talking like, I don't know two weeks or a month or something

01:20:21Okay, so a year and a half that's that that repaid his training. So it's not too bad for your employee employer, right?

01:20:27Okay. Yes. Okay, so

01:20:29You charged him rent and you got him a job, right?

01:20:32Yes, okay

01:20:33And and he worked there for a year and a half, which is probably one of the longer jobs he had right?

01:20:38Yeah, okay. Got it

01:20:41So you told your husband

01:20:43Uh, my brother is a slob and he's messy

01:20:47and

01:20:49ungrateful

01:20:50And it's not good with people doesn't play well with others

01:20:54And and your husband is like, okay, then he can live with us

01:21:00Well, he yeah, he wasn't happy like he wasn't thrilled about it, but

01:21:05he

01:21:07I don't know. I just explained to him that I was trying to make amends for like

01:21:13um

01:21:14And just try to give him an opportunity to move out of my parents house and be away from them so that he could see

01:21:20Because he I don't know. He's like, oh I had a horrible childhood this and this

01:21:25um, and then when he

01:21:27Has now worked in this new area and he's met people away from home

01:21:32Now he's starting to say, you know what my childhood actually wasn't that bad

01:21:37Um and

01:21:39like he has now the new job that he has that he

01:21:44Um started since he got fired he's been there for a long time

01:21:49and

01:21:50I don't know. He just seems to have matured and grown up a lot in the last three years

01:21:55but

01:21:56I don't know

01:21:59I just

01:22:00yeah, my he was

01:22:03Not a great housemate and my husband was like i've had enough of this

01:22:08What was wrong with him as a housemate that your husband kicked him out after five months

01:22:13No, he just doesn't clean and

01:22:16um

01:22:19He's just not a clean person like he we have a

01:22:23One bathroom for that we let him use and then his bedroom and that he was in charge of cleaning those

01:22:28And then he was in charge of cleaning any dishes that he used

01:22:33but he would just leave his dishes on the counter and

01:22:37I don't know and i'm i'm yeah, my husband's my

01:22:42Like in charge of having the hard conversations because i'm not good at standing up for myself. Oh, no, that's not true. Hang on

01:22:50Nice try nice try. Sorry. I'm afraid that that puck does not get past the goalie

01:22:56I'm i'm so tough at standing up for myself that I can cry my husband into inviting my slob brother over for five months

01:23:06You're fine at standing up to yourself for yourself with your husband, right

01:23:12Getting what you want from him

01:23:17Right

01:23:19I mean, I think a reason like you say to your husband. Oh, i'm trying to make amends blah blah blah

01:23:23it's like well then make amends but

01:23:26Not under my roof not under our house

01:23:28Go go apologize. Take him to disneyland. I don't care but

01:23:33That doesn't mean he lives with us

01:23:35Well, why why would I have to pay?

01:23:38for your guilt

01:23:39As as also why would your employer have to pay for your guilt for you hiring somebody who was not particularly a good worker?

01:23:49Right making other people pay for your guilt your husband your employer

01:23:55Yeah

01:23:56It's your thing to work, right? You can't take other people's stuff like your husband's peace of mind and right

01:24:04So, yeah, it's it's your job, right

01:24:07Okay

01:24:08You're right

01:24:11So

01:24:13The women the women are getting their way

01:24:17So your husband's okay, so what was what's the soft spot in your husband what's the what's the button there?

01:24:27Did your brother do anything that was particularly surprising to you

01:24:32When you were living with him

01:24:35Oh

01:24:38Was it all kind of no

01:24:41It was all

01:24:43Like look because he was working overnights. He slept during the day

01:24:48and then

01:24:49God, he was awake at night. You got him a night job and had him move in

01:24:55So you guys but I mean I platter dishes during the day

01:25:00No, but we were working all day

01:25:03Oh, okay, so it didn't overlap too much, right

01:25:07No, he would be home alone sleeping while we were at work got it, okay, sorry, but and then yeah, but we can still right

01:25:16Yeah, he

01:25:20Yeah, it'd be like the weekends I guess okay, but so what's a lot of times has been I'm sorry

01:25:27My husband and I would go out like we do a lot of biking and hiking and stuff so

01:25:32Okay, so was there anything that your brother did that was very surprising?

01:25:38Over the time that he lived with you in other words where you shocked at the fact that he didn't do the dishes were you shocked

01:25:44At how slovenly he was or how ungrateful or volatile he was

01:25:48Was it like I don't even know this person

01:25:51I don't know because I grew up with it. And so and like I was so was your husband aware

01:25:58Of your brother's habits when he agreed to have your brother move in in other words was your husband surprised?

01:26:04at

01:26:05your brother's behavior

01:26:10I don't think he was surprised by it. I think he would just

01:26:13was like kev had enough of this shit and

01:26:17Like just got fed up with it and I think because like I was

01:26:21um, like doing all the cleaning and like cleaning the dishes and stuff and he's like

01:26:25You shouldn't have to be doing that for him

01:26:29He should be doing it for himself

01:26:31Okay, so your husband had an expectation that your brother would not be a slob

01:26:35Which you knew was not correct that your brother you knew your brother would be a slob, right?

01:26:38Yeah

01:26:44So, I mean you must have understood the slob aspect of things to some degree for your brother to

01:26:49Like if you were to say

01:26:50Yeah, he's not going to do his own dishes. He's not going to keep his own place clean

01:26:54He's going to stink up the place. He's going to be a slob and a mess

01:26:56Like wouldn't your husband then say why I don't want him living here then?

01:27:04Yeah

01:27:07Yeah, if we if I had

01:27:10Said all those things probably

01:27:12Well, I mean who would right? So again, I I understand it and you know

01:27:17I appreciate your your concern for your brother, but you must and I know this sounds kind of esoteric

01:27:21But I think it's really related to bob. No, I appreciate

01:27:25so

01:27:27you

01:27:28for the sake of your own conscience you to some degree misrepresented your brother's dysfunction in order to get him to move in and

01:27:36then your husband had to

01:27:38have to have the tough conversation which only resulted because of the fact that

01:27:42You misrepresented how difficult your brother was going to be as a roommate

01:27:47Yes, okay. All right

01:27:53All right, so

01:27:55Your husband needs to start seeing that stuff and i'm sure he does right

01:27:59I know this is a while ago and all how long have you been married for?

01:28:01Uh

01:28:04Five years five years. Okay, so four four years. Sorry. Sorry four years. I'm telling um

01:28:11Okay, so I I get this was this was a while ago now

01:28:14Was your husband at all upset with you and said you kind of?

01:28:17You kind of sold me a bill of goods with regards to this guy and how he was going to be lived with

01:28:23Uh

01:28:27Yeah, he didn't know like he didn't um

01:28:32I don't know. He didn't really say anything with regards to that. He just said i've had enough of this crap. He's out

01:28:40And I said I understand

01:28:43kind of thing like we're

01:28:45I understand wait, but you agree

01:28:48Yeah, I agree like we had talked about it beforehand, okay, so you agreed he was like this and this

01:28:54Yeah, okay got it

01:28:56Because I he had told me like he needs to do these things and then I talked to him about them

01:29:01And then they still didn't happen. So then I was like, okay, I talked to him. He's not doing it

01:29:07And he's like, okay, i'll kick him out. So and then you get the joyful task of cleaning up the slob's bedroom

01:29:12That must have been fun

01:29:14All right. Yeah

01:29:16All right. So male authority here who is the most who is the most authoritative male in the family structure?

01:29:23Who is the male with the most authority?

01:29:27In my family growing up or currently because I would say family structure now aunts uncles cousins

01:29:35Grandparents whoever's around and still this side of the deep under I mean who's who's the most authoritative or who's the male with the greatest authority?

01:29:46I would say my husband is the most like outspoken and like

01:29:52Authoritative one

01:29:54I mean

01:29:56Yeah, like he's the one that's willing to like

01:30:00Have the hard conversations in front of everyone I guess

01:30:04And he like gives his opinion and he takes like he's good with debating and stuff

01:30:10and

01:30:11Okay, so has your uh husband had any what what has your husband said about the only fan's fiance of bob and

01:30:19And has he sort of you know, whether she's present or not might be a little bit easier if she's not present

01:30:23But he sat down with the family and said, you know, here are my concerns

01:30:28Yes, so we were at a get-together for my

01:30:34We're at a family get-together a few weeks ago and

01:30:38we were

01:30:39Just my parents my youngest brother and his fiance and then the two of us

01:30:45And we had like a big conversation about it and he said like these are all the concerns like

01:30:50we need to work together as a group and cut her off or like

01:30:55Confront them and like these are the things and like if we can't do it as a collective

01:31:00Then we're just gonna do it ourselves and he's like and then he has said to me

01:31:05He's like, I don't want her holding our baby. I don't want our I don't want to hang out with her or any of this stuff

01:31:12And he's like and unfortunately your brother is by association

01:31:16Yeah. Yeah. No, I get it. I mean auntie only fans would not be much fun for your kids, right?

01:31:21Yeah, exactly

01:31:23And so what happened?

01:31:26Um

01:31:28So

01:31:30My parents

01:31:33Are kind of like what I had said before they're like well

01:31:38he's a

01:31:40He's a grown man, he needs to make his own decisions no matter what we tell him he's gonna make his own decisions

01:31:47and

01:31:49um

01:31:50Like with my mom like since he had stopped talking to her for

01:31:54Like three months. She's like that was really hard for me to go through

01:31:58like not being able to talk to my son like

01:32:01I'm, sorry

01:32:02Sorry, I forgot remind me why he stopped talking to her

01:32:06Um because she offended the girlfriend by

01:32:11Uh, like bringing up her work and that she doesn't be inappropriate to the other ones, okay

01:32:19Yeah

01:32:20and

01:32:22Yeah, so then he didn't talk to her for three months and she said that was really hard because she would try to reach out

01:32:27And have open dialogue and he would just reject all her calls and then she like drove

01:32:32And she like drove three hours to the city that he lives in to

01:32:37Try to talk to him and he wouldn't even answer the door

01:32:41gosh

01:32:43And is he living together with his fiancee?

01:32:46Yes, and how long have they been living together?

01:32:51Uh

01:32:56Would have been the summer of 2022

01:32:58They moved in together with only dating for yeah, they were dating for four months they moved in

01:33:04Okay, so they've been a couple for almost two and a half years, right?

01:33:08Yes, okay

01:33:11and

01:33:13So your

01:33:15Your husband said all of this stuff, right? And

01:33:19Were you like nodding along were you yes, i'm absolutely with him 100% or where were you in this?

01:33:25Yes, I I agree I like I

01:33:31Agree that I don't want our kids around her and I agree that

01:33:36Um

01:33:38Like we need to stand up to her

01:33:42100%

01:33:43Why now why not?

01:33:45When he met her why not?

01:33:48Before they moved in together. Why not like what I know the wedding's coming up, but

01:33:53I know the wedding's coming up, but it's a little light, isn't it?

01:33:59Yeah, I think because we

01:34:02we had kids and we just like we lived six hours away from them, so

01:34:07We haven't seen them and then they had like a vehicle issue

01:34:10So they didn't have a car for like half the year. So I haven't even we haven't even seen them since last easter

01:34:17And then we just started a relationship anyway

01:34:20Exactly

01:34:22So what's all the fuss sorry, but I thought that you were like handing love with this brother

01:34:28You don't talk. No

01:34:30I'm, sorry. I'm trying to understand what's going on here

01:34:33We don't see each other very often. We haven't seen each other very often this past year because of just

01:34:39circumstantial things

01:34:41But you had kids, right?

01:34:43Sure

01:34:45Yes, we had kids, okay

01:34:47so isn't he calling to find out how the kids are doing and maybe make goo goo noises and read stories like isn't he

01:34:56Uncle

01:34:59No, none of my siblings do that so none of your siblings

01:35:05Have relationships with your your kids

01:35:08Yeah

01:35:10Yeah, it's more of like if i'm going to like if they're

01:35:15Because we live so far away. It's like i'm always the one no, no the far. Oh my god

01:35:19I can't do this anymore. You you can't stop using this far away shit. Come on

01:35:24How close are you and I okay?

01:35:26Are we are we in the same room?

01:35:31Come on like this is this is ridiculous. I love you like a sister, but you can't keep feeding me this nonsense

01:35:36You're right, you're right. Okay, so it's got nothing to do with distance look at all this technology

01:35:43You know people kept marriages alive through letters

01:35:47We've got instant video calls cropping out of everyone's ass 24 7. Okay, so it's not a distance thing

01:35:55Do you find that it's uh a guy thing though because like

01:36:01Just looking at like my dad and his sisters

01:36:06His sisters will always call him to stay into in touch. He's not always calling them and I just find that that's

01:36:13The relationship with my brothers too is like I have to be the one to reach out first

01:36:19No, it's not a guy thing guys are totally fine guys are totally fine at keeping relationships alive

01:36:24I'm in fact going for dinner this week with my college roommate from almost from 30 years ago

01:36:29Okay

01:36:31Okay, so it's a my family thing then well, I mean, I know it's it's not a guy thing that that guys don't keep in contact

01:36:38I mean half half, you know, 95 of the letters preserved through most thinkers are men writing to men

01:36:45Yeah

01:36:47Here. Yeah, I don't know

01:36:49That's just the men in my family, I guess or my siblings, I guess. I don't know

01:36:54I

01:36:56it's very rare other than like

01:36:58Sorry, but okay, so

01:37:01You uh, you have two kids. Is that right?

01:37:04Yes. Well, congratulations, of course, and how old are they?

01:37:08Two and six months. Oh beautiful. Okay, so you

01:37:14Care enormously and devotedly and madly about your children, right?

01:37:20Yes more than a your brothers don't

01:37:25Yeah

01:37:28And

01:37:30That's just a basic fact

01:37:33How much conversation?

01:37:35Or I don't know baby photos. I know it's like pretty tough to have a conversation with a six

01:37:41Month old but you know too you can start to have a couple of chats here and there right maybe even sooner than that. So

01:37:47What interest are they usually not showing any interest in your kids?

01:37:50Uh, well when they're around them, so like when my when we have

01:37:55Family get-togethers and stuff like that then they're like down on the floor and playing with them and stuff

01:38:01um

01:38:03but yeah other than

01:38:06That like I don't know my husband and I are very protective of them. So we're just we're always

01:38:12Either holding

01:38:14The one or we're sitting really close with the other one and there hasn't been a ton of

01:38:18Like i've i've gotten together with a few of my siblings here and there like we've gone over to my youngest sibling's house

01:38:25and she's played there, but

01:38:28I know we've stuck pretty close to home and just

01:38:32I don't know

01:38:35It's more of like a i'm just waiting for the word salad to end so you can

01:38:39It's more of like a i'm just waiting for the word salad to end so you can you can let me know

01:38:45Yeah when you're done

01:38:47I'm done. Okay, so your brothers don't take much interest in your kids when they're not directly in front of them. Yes, okay

01:38:54And you live a long way away

01:38:57Yes

01:38:58And do they check up on you and how you're doing and how you're doing postpartum and how you're doing with breastfeeding like any

01:39:03any sort of basic

01:39:05Caring stuff that people do

01:39:09Particularly no, okay, so there's no real relationship

01:39:15Okay, I don't know I don't i'm not trying to tell you that i'm i'm simply identifying that as far as I can see

01:39:22I mean people don't if I have to be right in front of people for them to notice I exist

01:39:27And I live a long way away. It's not a real relationship

01:39:31Is it?

01:39:36You're right

01:39:40You

01:39:42So i'm

01:39:43I'm, just trying to figure out this you care a lot more about people who don't seem to care that much about you

01:39:51Like this is with your brother moving in right like oh I gotta help my brother it's like

01:39:55Well, your brother should repay that with gratitude and help

01:39:59Making things really difficult for you

01:40:02When you're newly married, that's unbelievably selfish

01:40:04You got him a job you're putting him up and he's making life difficult for you and your new husband. That's abominably selfish

01:40:13So what's all this caring for people who don't seem to reciprocate much at all

01:40:21Help me follow that

01:40:32I don't know the best like

01:40:35I don't know. I don't know why I just

01:40:40I

01:40:41I know it's not my job because i'm not their mother but

01:40:45Just like being the oldest and the only girl

01:40:49I was kind of

01:40:50I kind of feel like a mother to them sometimes and I know I shouldn't know that I get I get that you have a mother

01:40:56They have a mother right? They have a mother. They don't know just their mother ever say to them

01:41:01Listen, you lazy

01:41:03fanhouse male bums get off the

01:41:06Get off playing video games and call your sister. She's had a baby. See how she's doing you bums

01:41:14Uh, no, I guess not

01:41:19I guess not. No

01:41:22Well, have you ever heard of such a thing?

01:41:26I haven't no. Okay, so

01:41:29Your mother

01:41:30Has not instilled in them

01:41:32Any basic social graces, maybe that's why one of them's a welder and I don't know what the other people do

01:41:36but but

01:41:38Your mother doesn't seem to have instilled in them, you know

01:41:40Here's some basics about how you know, you can tell other human beings that you care that they're alive

01:41:47right

01:41:49Okay

01:41:51And they don't seem to have figured that I mean this is not

01:41:56Newton like this is not einsteinian physics here, right if if

01:42:00If your sister's had a baby you you call and see how she's doing

01:42:06Yeah

01:42:07Yeah, like you don't that's not a male thing

01:42:10or female thing

01:42:11That's just a basic politeness thing that or any kind of relationship thing, right?

01:42:17right

01:42:21Yeah, the only yeah

01:42:24I don't really hear from the bunch unless I initiate the conversation. Okay, so they don't care particularly

01:42:35And I you know, I don't want to hear this platonic well, but deep down in some other dimensions like no, I mean I

01:42:40I judge actions. I can't judge intentions or hidden thoughts or secret chambers, right?

01:42:45Right. Yeah, I hear you so they don't care that much

01:42:50All right

01:42:52It's hard to hear but you're well, I'm not trying to tell you something but simply reflect back to you what you've told me

01:43:00yeah

01:43:01and what I've what I've

01:43:04Sorry

01:43:06what I already do but just

01:43:09Trying to suppress I guess. Okay. What about your parents?

01:43:15They all yeah there we talk like every week

01:43:19Oh

01:43:20So you and your parents you and your mom and dad talk every week, right?

01:43:23Yeah, and have you ever told them or do they know that your brothers don't contact you?

01:43:30Uh, I mean it's their job to know right their parents. Yeah. No, I

01:43:38I don't know like we'll check in but when I'll be like, oh I talked to

01:43:43whichever brother

01:43:45Recently and then i'll be like, oh and how's he doing kind of thing?

01:43:49I'd be doing wouldn't they know?

01:43:52well, well

01:43:53My mom tries to reach out sometimes and then my brothers just won't answer

01:43:58and then

01:44:00So

01:44:02Like the brother that's living closest to me that had moved in for a while

01:44:06He like only reaches out to my parents when he needs something and otherwise he just doesn't really so why why are the boys?

01:44:15This disconnected and selfish do you think?

01:44:22It's your dad connected and selfless

01:44:28Selfless, you know what? I mean? I don't mean this like no identity. I just mean like

01:44:33Not just contacting people when you want something yeah

01:44:38Yeah

01:44:40I

01:44:44Don't I don't know my dad

01:44:49Um, can you rephrase it I okay, um

01:44:53How emotionally available and close and connected is your father to his sons?

01:45:03Um

01:45:06I would say not

01:45:08Okay, and why do you think that is

01:45:12Because I mean sons need that from their fathers, right?

01:45:15They need they need the modeling of masculine passions masculine emotions masculine

01:45:20um attachments they're different from feminine right and and they're complementary and so on so

01:45:27How your father is not close to his sons?

01:45:32But

01:45:34I don't

01:45:36Not particularly like again, like he'll message us

01:45:41Well, he'll he'll message them

01:45:44I don't just like let them know

01:45:46if something's going on, but as far as I know, he doesn't like

01:45:51Uh

01:45:54Like just check up on them to say how you're doing and even with me like

01:45:59He doesn't really say how are you doing kind of thing? Like he'll like text me and be like

01:46:04I put this date in your calendar blah blah blah and then when I respond then he'll start a conversation about something or

01:46:12They're like, oh, how are things going with the girls or blah blah blah blah?

01:46:15Like he'll like and so maybe it's because my brothers just respond with okay

01:46:20Then he just leaves it at that and he doesn't go. Okay

01:46:24Sorry, when did you as the oldest you have a unique position to see this? When do you think?

01:46:29That this self-absorption or lack of connection began to emerge in your brothers

01:46:36Um

01:46:51I

01:46:53Honestly, I think when they graduated and then they were kind of on their own then they were like

01:47:08Or

01:47:09It could have been sooner but like I moved out

01:47:12And then we weren't okay. So let's let's go back. Let's go back

01:47:15So when when they were young

01:47:18They connected and affectionate

01:47:20Yes

01:47:21Okay

01:47:22When they were early teens

01:47:25connected and affectionate

01:47:30The younger two yes

01:47:32I'd say the oldest of the three was

01:47:36Not very

01:47:38Affectionate

01:47:39So that began to do this after I would say teens

01:47:42Probably the bullying like that. Well, I don't know. I'm not asking the cause just the time frame

01:47:48So was it the case that all three brothers got into their early to mid-teens and got kind of cold-hearted and distant

01:47:59Just the oldest I don't the other two I would say it was more so after high school

01:48:05Oh said they were connected and affectionate and then after high school

01:48:09Yeah, they got colder and more distant

01:48:12Yeah, okay

01:48:13And did your father notice this or did your mother notice this occurring in their children

01:48:22Or did they ever talk about it, you know, gee they used to be so nice and

01:48:26They used to be they used to chat. They used to give me hugs or like

01:48:29Did they notice this this lack of reciprocity this distance this kind of self-absorption this whatever right? There's this loss of connection

01:48:38They never said anything to me about that

01:48:41And did you ever bring it up saying i've kind of noticed there's this distance or anything like that

01:48:48Uh, I have said to my mom

01:48:51kind of the thing of like I only ever

01:48:55Hear from them if I reach out and it gets frustrating to be

01:48:59Having a one-way relationship and when did you do you remember roughly when you first said that to your mom?

01:49:05uh

01:49:07Probably after I had my my first child. Oh, so pretty recently, right?

01:49:11yeah, because my husband's sister and mom and

01:49:15Everyone was like texting me all the time asking

01:49:18and like making a point to come see her

01:49:23and

01:49:24Like my brothers like didn't even message me or call me or anything. I'm so sorry. That's

01:49:29You know and just for for people listening to this and I don't want to speak for you

01:49:33Of course my friend but for people listening to this

01:49:36If you don't stay in close contact with people who are new parents, they will never forgive you

01:49:42It's it's it's it's a hole

01:49:45That can never be sewn back up

01:49:49No, and and I mean i've been in this situation and again

01:49:52I don't want to speak for you

01:49:52And if i'm not speaking for you, you can tell me but I think I am but i'm not going to say that for sure

01:49:58Because when like having a child there's such a wondrous experience. It's so incredible. It's so deep. It's so powerful. It's so magical

01:50:06That if you don't share with new parents in that experience to whatever degree you can

01:50:11And there's no amount of fascination and and and fear and and love and interest that the parents don't get tired of expressing that, right?

01:50:19Yeah

01:50:22I could tell my birth story a hundred times. Right, right. So

01:50:27The wonder of having a new life in your house is so

01:50:31Unbelievably incredible that if you miss that window of connecting with new parents

01:50:37Nothing that you say later means much at all

01:50:40And and please please i'm begging anyone who listens to this if there are new parents in your life share their obsession

01:50:50Because it's so profoundly and fundamentally life-changing that if you don't participate in that journey you end up with nothing in common

01:50:57Or

01:51:00Almost nothing in common other than some shared history or whatever

01:51:03So I just you know, I I I found it kind of heartbreaking when I had friends of like 20 or 30 years

01:51:08you know, I I had my wife and I have Izzy

01:51:12and

01:51:14You know that we we didn't get any messages for weeks really

01:51:20And i'm just like like i'm sorry like I I I don't have anything in common with you anymore

01:51:28You

01:51:30And I I was never able like now we're generally friends with parents because I don't know

01:51:34I don't know if non-parents don't get it

01:51:35But I guess I mean there are certainly non-parents who get it in in your life

01:51:39but yeah, if if people like first of all go over and help them as much as possible and

01:51:44And and support them as much as possible and and share their love and their fascination and their curiosity get to know their kids play

01:51:51With their kids and if you're long distance at least be on the phone

01:51:54You can make funny faces to a two-year-old on the phone or even a six-month-old or whatever right and and you can

01:52:00Read them stories and like you can you can do cool stuff

01:52:04With them even from a great distance and like just absolutely do it absolutely do it because if you miss that window it never reopens

01:52:14Like now, okay, you got a kid who's two what if they're like, hey, I want to get to know your kids

01:52:18It's like well, why now? What do you want now? Like you want you must want something

01:52:22Yeah, exactly are you dying do you need a place to live that's something right

01:52:30So, yeah, I just wanted to sort of make that little speech like don't don't let that window pass by or you're gonna end up

01:52:35With almost nothing in common, okay

01:52:38um

01:52:40So your parents haven't noticed the distance and what does your mom say when you say my brothers don't contact me

01:52:48Uh

01:52:51You

01:52:56Well, that's where she had said like

01:52:59Um

01:53:01well

01:53:02it's kind of similar with your dad like it's always his sisters that are contacting him or

01:53:08The sisters and I will stay in contact

01:53:12and your dad

01:53:13Is never the one to make the first phone call with it. Okay, so your your your brothers are just doing what your dad did, right?

01:53:20Yes, okay, so

01:53:24The women in your family have allowed the men to get lazy and disconnected

01:53:36That sounds right

01:53:38And they do that because the women are anxious about relationships and keep them going

01:53:46Because they feel bad. Otherwise not for the value of the people involved

01:53:50Right, like why did you want your brother to come and live with you? Because he's such a great guy. No for guilt

01:53:55Yeah

01:53:56So you're you're and why did you get him a job because he's such a great employee? No for guilt

01:54:02And obligation it's not about your brother. It's about you

01:54:07That's true

01:54:08And then everyone says well, you know, the brothers are kind of selfish it's like but if the women as a whole

01:54:13Are running everything based on guilt and shame and obligation and appearance and whatever right? That's not about the people themselves

01:54:20right

01:54:27And if you can't find direct connection and value in the people themselves, what's the point

01:54:36Oh, it's been so long since i've called this person I better call them out of guilt and obligation

01:54:42Gosh can you imagine can you imagine if somebody called me out of guilt and obligation and shame and sad i'd be like, ew

01:54:50Go to a therapist. Don't pretend that it's about me

01:54:56Hi, baby, i'm on the phone

01:55:01Look at that I just heard more of your kids than your brother have

01:55:06Your brothers have so okay, so

01:55:10The women are running things

01:55:14For guilt and shame rather than for the people themselves

01:55:17Which is alienating to the men because the men don't feel accepted and loved for who they are

01:55:23So because the men don't feel accepted and loved for who they are

01:55:25They don't have to be better or do better

01:55:27And they actually feel some resentment for contacting the women because the women only contact them out of guilt and obligation rather than out of genuine

01:55:34Love and curiosity

01:55:35So they're mirroring the distance that the women have because the women are running off obligation rather than love

01:55:40And they're actually accurately mirroring the lack of emotional content in the relationships

01:55:45Because the women aren't loving the men for who they are but simply contacting them out of obligation

01:55:52Sorry, that was highly compressed, but I hope that makes some kind of sense that made sense a lot of sense

01:55:59So

01:56:01The relationships are not personal but transactional transactional relationships are fine

01:56:06It's just that they tend to be economic based right like I go to get a coffee from a coffee shop

01:56:11I get a coffee from a coffee shop. They want my three bucks more than they want my three bucks

01:56:16And I want the coffee more than they want the coffee. So we trade that's a transactional relationship, right?

01:56:21Yeah

01:56:22and

01:56:24You know my friends my wife and my daughter like that's not transactional relationship, right? I don't have to spend money. It's not like

01:56:31so there's

01:56:33a

01:56:35Transactional set of relationships at the core of the family

01:56:39Which is about self-management through guilt and obligation or shame or history or whatever it is

01:56:45Yeah, and so

01:56:47This is probably why

01:56:51This is probably why

01:56:54Everybody's having a tough time

01:56:56Condemning the only fans girl because at least she's honest about the transactional nature of her relationship with her audience

01:57:05Yeah

01:57:07If your brothers weren't your brothers

01:57:09Would you be in touch with them?

01:57:11In other words if you just met people who happened to be just like your brothers or whatever

01:57:16At some social event or social gathering. Would you want to stay in touch?

01:57:21With my youngest brother, yes, okay the other two really we don't really have anything in common or

01:57:30Well, they don't sound like particularly nice people or helpful people or thoughtful people or whatever

01:57:34Right, not particularly virtuous or noble or whatever, right?

01:57:38Right. Okay

01:57:40So then you have a problem, which is you don't really like them

01:57:44But you feel guilty if you don't contact them

01:57:50Yeah

01:57:51now

01:57:52You don't solve the problem of not liking them with guilt, right? That's just two wrongs trying to make a right

01:57:58Right. I don't like them

01:57:59But i'm gonna punish myself with guilt if I don't contact them like you don't think that men understand that deep down

01:58:10I never really thought about it. But yeah

01:58:14They they understand that

01:58:16And they also get the unearned which is that they don't have to earn contact from you by being nice thoughtful or helpful

01:58:22You'll just contact them. They just know right? So it's like well why the women are all running around

01:58:27contacting people out of guilt and obligation

01:58:29And appearance

01:58:31So the men don't have to improve. This is like the welfare state or something, right?

01:58:35Yeah, it's all subsidized

01:58:39Yeah, and I think definitely like

01:58:45I like it it won't be

01:58:49An issue for me to just like cut contact and not like and not text or answer calls or whatever

01:58:57Because we're not really talking anyways

01:59:02But I like the one I was just

01:59:07I don't know because I your concern is the splash damage, right?

01:59:11It's the complications with family gatherings. And also yeah, if you cut your brother

01:59:15Then what is your relationship with the people who don't right?

01:59:18Yes, because that and then that the dysfunction still flows and affects you, right?

01:59:23So let's say I mean things are going to go horribly with this fiance, right?

01:59:28and so then you're just going to get the splash damage as

01:59:32let's say your brother complains to some other family member and then you hear about it through that family member and it's like

01:59:39That really hasn't helped you much at all, right?

01:59:41Exactly

01:59:44Right

01:59:48So, I mean

01:59:50Oh, yeah, I mean the problem is the marriage is when

01:59:54In april

01:59:56Okay, so you've got you got some time you got eight months nine months, right?

02:00:00Yeah, okay

02:00:03And has your brother expressed any doubt or concern about marrying this woman

02:00:09Not too far I had my first like alone conversation with him for 20 minutes

02:00:15a few weeks ago

02:00:17and just kind of was asking him like about his life and what she's doing and i'm like and then when he's

02:00:23Brought that up and I was like, how are you? Okay with that? Like

02:00:27um

02:00:28It's so it's kind of

02:00:31How are you okay with that?

02:00:33I mean, yeah, don't you have some genuine curiosity like okay

02:00:36How are you squaring this or how do you think this is going to affect your kids?

02:00:39You know, your kids are going to go to school. Someone's going to find this, you know

02:00:42I mean with ai and reverse imaging

02:00:44It's pretty tough to hide things and once on the internet forever on the internet and son of stuff, right?

02:00:48So how are your kids going to handle this or like, you know?

02:00:52Yeah, I didn't uh

02:00:54Articulate that very well. I mean and what if what if he ever wants, you know a life post welding or something?

02:01:00I don't know. He wants to do something else with his life that might be slightly more refined

02:01:04Uh, that's going to be a real liability, right? I mean he could get blackmailed

02:01:07I mean there could be any number of negative things and this isn't like how dare you like this is great

02:01:11How can you be okay with this like accusatory? It's like, you know, how how do you think this is going to play?

02:01:16Like how do you how's this going to work for you?

02:01:18I mean because you're making decisions for your kids fundamentally not for you, right?

02:01:22Yeah

02:01:23now it sounds like she could you know has the torpedoes to breastfeed at most of west africa, but

02:01:28How how are the kids going to deal with an only fans mom, right?

02:01:32and and you know

02:01:32there's lots of articles out there of like kids who are

02:01:35Relentlessly bullied and shamed because of only fans moms and all that kind of stuff, right?

02:01:40And and it's always going to be in the back of his mind that even if she shuts her account down tomorrow

02:01:44there's still lots of people out there with the

02:01:46Video and footage and could upload it anywhere and again reverse image searching and all of that kind of stuff. It's you know

02:01:52It's dead simple to find this kind of stuff, right?

02:01:55So there is that this is is going to be a vulnerability

02:01:58And you really you're not choosing

02:02:01a wife as much as you're choosing

02:02:04a mother for your children, right?

02:02:06And so so you have to you know

02:02:08My suggestion would be something like you know in general I think as a whole you kind of have to choose your wife

02:02:15Like your kids get the deciding vote

02:02:18Right not not your last, you know

02:02:20Which I understand there's nothing wrong with lust like not just your lust or or whatever it is, right?

02:02:24or or how cute she is or how funny she is, but

02:02:28your children

02:02:29Are the product of the marriage and your children don't have a voice

02:02:32So in choosing who to marry you kind of have to choose on the basis of what your children would choose

02:02:36Because you're you're advocating on their behalf, right?

02:02:39Now of all the women that you could date or or could get married to or could have children with

02:02:45Would your children choose?

02:02:48This lady or this woman as their mother

02:02:52And I can't answer that for you directly. That's just something to think about

02:02:55Because you're choosing on their behalf, right like if if I go out and and you say get me a meal

02:03:01I'm going to try and figure out what you want, right?

02:03:03I'm, not just going to bring some food food home that you hate, right? I'll be like, oh, yeah

02:03:07I remember you like philly cheesesteaks. I got you a philly cheesesteak, right?

02:03:10So if you ask me to choose on your behalf

02:03:14Then you want me to choose in accordance with

02:03:17Your preferences, right? I'm going to choose you to see if you hate butter chicken

02:03:21I'm not going to come home with butter chicken and say well like it or lump it, right?

02:03:24And you're choosing your children's mother on their behalf, right? And so

02:03:28What would they say? What would that's what that's the most important thing because that's really what they're going to have to live with it

02:03:33Right because because you get the choice they don't right?

02:03:36And so, uh, are they going to want a mother who is, you know

02:03:40She's quite overweight and I understand there's a certain kind of body type and I accept all of that, right?

02:03:44She's quite overweight

02:03:46So she's not really going to be able to play with them at the playground

02:03:48She's not going to be able to roll around on the floor with them

02:03:50She's not going to be able to, you know, just do this kind of stuff. That's, you know, pretty important

02:03:55You know, I hate to be this. Oh, I have young kids. And so I know but you know

02:03:59I do have a little bit of experience this way

02:04:01She's really not going to be able to roll around. The other thing too is that this is what she weighs

02:04:05Pre-babies and you know, i'm not saying she's gonna swallow the entire fat grenade

02:04:10But you know, sometimes women gain a lot of weight after babies. They gain a lot of weight after getting married and

02:04:16Babies they gain a lot of weight after getting married and

02:04:20You know what may be, you know, I guess pleasingly plump now might become dangerously obese

02:04:25Uh in the future and that that can be an issue as well

02:04:29And you know, I suppose one of the things that I have some concerns about and again

02:04:34I'm, i'm open to all the counter arguments. This is just my thoughts

02:04:38Is that I don't know that she's thought about

02:04:41The choices she's making and the effects on her kids

02:04:44down down the road down the line because I think that she wouldn't in general because

02:04:49Kids don't want only fans moms. I think we can especially boys but girls too, right?

02:04:52I mean you you don't want only fans moms and she's kind of made those

02:04:56Those choices the obesity has got health issues. You got knee issues back issues, especially with the breasts and all of that

02:05:03and um

02:05:05Fertility issues, right? I mean

02:05:08It can be tough if you're significantly overweight and I think she is right it can be tough to get get pregnant and all of that

02:05:14so

02:05:15And there's lots of health issues, you know

02:05:17She's cutting her lifespan short by quite quite a number of years if not decades

02:05:21So, you know, I don't want to be as simple as like well

02:05:24You can do better and all that because you know, she's funny. She's charming

02:05:27She's got some you know, real real qualities and and i'm not gonna you know, you're not an idiot, right?

02:05:32I mean, she's she's got some real qualities

02:05:35But I suppose I guess my big question is

02:05:39You know, i'm gonna have to answer to your kids, right?

02:05:42Because if you have kids with this woman

02:05:45They're gonna have some significant issues with your choice

02:05:48They're just they just are just as you would I mean

02:05:50Imagine if mom was some own them a shutter to think of it mom with some only fans model

02:05:54Showing her butt to strangers on the internet. You'd have some problems with that, right?

02:05:59And so at some point your kids are going to come to me and say I got some issues with mom

02:06:03And i'll be like yes, I share those issues and it's like well

02:06:05did you support the marriage and it'd be like

02:06:07I you know, I want to have my conscience clear and say look I I did have some conversations with your dad

02:06:12I did sort of point out some of the challenges and I did it in a nice way and so on

02:06:16And he decided to to go ahead, but I did

02:06:20Really unpack my heart and share my thoughts with him because I really wanted what was best for you guys

02:06:26So again, i'm obviously just making that up off of the cuff, but it's something like that as a whole

02:06:32to to

02:06:34Share your concerns, but without the well, how are you gonna handle this and how you're gonna handle that?

02:06:38This is gonna make people defensive, right?

02:06:40And maybe he won't listen to any of that. Maybe I just get off and you know, you hate true love and storm out

02:06:44I don't know but but it's really it's your conscience

02:06:47It has to be clear like for me and again

02:06:50I'm, sorry to make this about me after you have these selfish brothers

02:06:52But for me if I make my case and someone goes ahead and does something stupid anyway, my conscience is clear

02:07:00And this is not to make it about me

02:07:02But fundamentally I have to please my own conscience or I can't be good for anyone, right?

02:07:07That's exactly what my husband said, too

02:07:10Yeah

02:07:10So yeah, I think if you make your case as as calmly and reasonably as possible

02:07:15And you know

02:07:16you may have to grit your teeth and see the only fans because only fans could be anything from bikini shots to

02:07:22I don't even I don't know where the bottom of only fans is

02:07:24I know I have an account there, but i've never looked at the site

02:07:27But I i'm pretty sure that there's not a bottom to only fans i'm pretty sure it just keeps going down to death

02:07:33so

02:07:35You may need to grit your teeth and see what what you're dealing with and if it's just I don't know some bikini shots

02:07:39Uh bikini photos or whatever. That's one thing and if it's like, I don't know some hardcore nonsense

02:07:44That's an entire that's a kind of different thing

02:07:46so

02:07:47That may be something you might need to grit your teeth and and do uh, just to see what you're dealing with but

02:07:53Yeah, I think if you if you make the case

02:07:56Then you know if he rejects your good counsel then he's rejecting you and he's choosing his path and

02:08:02If people reject my good counsel, they're obviously perfectly free to do that. They can do whatever they want

02:08:08but if they're going

02:08:10Down a dark path and I tell them don't go down this dark path and they're like screw you i'm going i'm like then you go

02:08:15alone

02:08:16Great, like I I have my kids to think of and you have your kids so you can't go down this path

02:08:21You can't go down this path. You've got kids

02:08:23Right because because that path is going to interfere with your parenting with your kids and as you know

02:08:28Nothing is more important than your kids like every decision you make is what's best for my kids

02:08:32and if my

02:08:33my brother gets married to a turbo skank

02:08:36then

02:08:37Dealing with that that chaos that drama those problems that mess that cheating that whatever whatever ugliness is going to happen

02:08:44It's going to interfere with your parenting

02:08:46You're going to be less emotionally available to your kids and it's like look if I warn you against this

02:08:51And then you go down this path and you're going down this path if I stick around that interferes with my relationship with my kids

02:08:56It's like you're so disposable. You're like 40-year-old kleenex

02:09:00Right

02:09:05Okay

02:09:09Would you recommend then with like things like christmas

02:09:13that I just make a plan with my own parents and just say

02:09:16my family will come down to visit you for christmas or you can come up here, but

02:09:21And just leave it at that and just try to make our own. So you're asking how you handle things not this christmas, but next christmas

02:09:29No like this christmas too because we're going to have this conversation that we're not going to their wedding in april

02:09:34Well, hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Oh, have you made the peaceful patient case?

02:09:41That I just made in obviously not in my words, but in your words

02:09:45You're right. No, I haven't yet. Okay, so you're asking on the other side of an intervention

02:09:5018 months from now. What should you do? It's like I don't know so many variables. You're right if

02:09:57I have to at least try first

02:10:00Yeah, and I mean

02:10:02I mean ideally it would be face to face

02:10:04I get that it's a long way to go and I personally wouldn't put a huge amount of effort into that

02:10:08But you know, I mean at least at least make sure that and you know

02:10:10If he keeps dodging your calls and won't have the conversation then it's like, okay

02:10:14Well, then then your conscience is still clear, right?

02:10:16Yeah, you're right because you wanted to have the conversation you can't force him to have the conversation and if you won't have the

02:10:21Conf at least your conscience is clear at that point, right?

02:10:25Because that that's you got to have a clear conscience

02:10:27And you know because your kids are going to ask they're going to find out about all of this

02:10:31Well, they get older and they're going to ask you questions, right?

02:10:35Why why are we not in touch with so-and-so?

02:10:37Why I mean it's like, you know, well obviously here kids i'm not going to show you the only fans

02:10:42But here's here's all the arguments that I have

02:10:44Uh, here's all the I did my best I tried the conversation a couple of times and you know

02:10:49My my your your dad was with me and you know, we really did try and make the best case but

02:10:53You know, you you can't control people and and sometimes they're just going to make

02:10:57Bad decisions and the people who're going to have to pick up the pieces are the people most responsible for the issue

02:11:02Which is your parents?

02:11:03Right the distance of your father

02:11:05And the fact that your mother

02:11:07Right. Why did your mother get back in touch?

02:11:11With your brother who cut her off for having some issues with his only fans fiance

02:11:16Why did you you already told me two or three times? Why did your mother get back in touch?

02:11:21Uh

02:11:23Because of me because I was able to tell him don't you think?

02:11:28that

02:11:29No, that's not what you told me what you told me was and i'm not

02:11:33Saying you're wrong. I'm just telling you what you what you told me what you told me a couple of times was your mother said

02:11:38I felt really bad

02:11:42Right, so your mother didn't get back in touch with your brother because he'd reformed or become better

02:11:46She got back in touch with your brother. Why to manage her own bad feelings?

02:11:50Right because she felt really bad

02:11:53And therefore she completely abandoned her morals and her standards, right? Which meant that she was not

02:11:58Wanting to be in contact with him or it was just to manage your own negative feelings

02:12:03That's what I mean by the transactional relationships

02:12:05You can't be in relationships with people because you feel bad when you don't contact them guilt or obligate. I mean, that's not a relationship

02:12:11That's just self-management pretending to be a contact point

02:12:15Okay

02:12:17so your mother's modeled all of this and

02:12:19because

02:12:20because the men in your family know that they can be, you know kind of jerks and the women are going to get guilty and

02:12:26Wave away all standards and contact them and give them resources. Anyway, you're not helping them

02:12:31Your mom's not helping her sons by throwing away all standards and then

02:12:35Just contact them because she feels guilty or bad or whatever

02:12:38That's not and your father should talk to her about that and say no

02:12:42He's he's he's doing something that's bad for the family. It's not just bad for him

02:12:47because he's part of a whole family structure it's causing a lot of chaos and he you know, like

02:12:52And then he he cut you off

02:12:54So the way that he he solves that is he calls you up and he says i'm really sorry

02:12:58And he has a genuine apology

02:13:01But you don't just contact someone who cut you off for a criticism

02:13:05You don't just contact them because you feel bad

02:13:08How about they feel bad and and they actually make some apologies, right? Did your brother ever apologize for being a

02:13:14uber slob in your

02:13:16And you're in your husband's house

02:13:18oh, okay, so

02:13:20did he ever apologize for

02:13:23Getting fired when you got him a job that like

02:13:26Why is anyone

02:13:27Permitting the like encouraging and subsidizing this behavior. They gotta learn some politeness. They gotta learn some decency, don't they?

02:13:35You're yeah, you're 100 right

02:13:37So, yeah, that's my sort of general thoughts about it. And and I really do sympathize

02:13:42but

02:13:43Yeah, this sort of consequence free

02:13:46And women do this a lot right and men do this sometimes too, but women do it a little bit more which is

02:13:51Well, I feel bad so i'm gonna throw all of my standards aside, right

02:13:55Welcome to immigrants in in in various western countries. I feel bad. I see a

02:14:01An unhappy person and so, you know, we can't have any borders, right? So this I I feel bad

02:14:06And therefore we can't have any standards. Uh, there are no rules. They're like, okay

02:14:10Well, that's just that's just a bad habit, right? And and that's that's got to change

02:14:14It was very helpful

02:14:16I hope so. I know it's a long chat and I know it sounded like we would go and sound some fairly

02:14:21inconsequential rabbit holes, but

02:14:23There's a method to the madness

02:14:25Oh, it's good. You opened my eyes to a lot of things. I didn't think about so

02:14:30I appreciate that you're very welcome

02:14:32And i'm sorry to leave you in a sad spot

02:14:33But I know you've got a husband and kids there to chat with and will you keep me posted?

02:14:37Let me know how it goes

02:14:39I will for sure. All right. Thanks sister. I'll see you soon

02:14:41I will for sure. All right. Thanks sister. Take care all the best. All right. Thanks you as well. Bye

My Brother is Marrying an OF Model! Freedomain Call In

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