Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Oliver Leader de Saxe, joined by Cllr Michael Pearce, Deputy Leader of Medway Independent Group, and Cllr Mark Joy, Shadow Member for Education and Children's Services (Conservative)
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hello and welcome to the Kent Politics Show live on KMTV, the show on your TV that gets
00:27Kent's politicians talking. I'm Oliver Leader-the-Sax and I'm not sure about you, but I'm getting
00:33a sense of deja vu. Labour is back in power after a landslide election, Oasis are getting
00:38ready to get back on tour and things can only get worse? Well that was the message from
00:44Sir Keir Starmer earlier this week in his first landmark speech as Prime Minister, where
00:50he laid out expectations of difficult short-term decisions for long-term prosperity.
00:55They saw the cracks in our society after 14 years of failure and they exploited them.
01:04That's what we've inherited, not just an economic black hole, a societal black hole and that's
01:13why we have to take action and do things differently. And part of that is being honest with people
01:22about the choices that we face, how tough this will be. And frankly, things will get
01:31worse before they get better. While he may have been quick to cut the Cool Britannia
01:37comparisons to Labour's Blairite past, all eyes are now on the October budget, as well
01:43as the Gallagher's pre-sale links for tomorrow. So can Kent expect tax rises in the next few
01:49months? It's definitely a maybe, and it's not the only Labour talking point with the
01:54government looking to shake up our relationship with cigarettes and alcohol with further restrictions.
02:00While some might say talk of a four-day working week is leaving people here in the county
02:05divided. And of course, half the world away from Westminster here in Medway, hundreds
02:11of new homes were approved for rural farmland, with concerns about what this might mean for
02:17the future. To make sense of it all, I'm joined by the Deputy Leader of the Medway
02:21Independent Group, Councillor Michael Pearce, and Conservative Shadow Member for Children's
02:25Services Education, Mark Joy. Thank you both for coming on to the programme. Always great
02:31to have you here. So I want to start with a nice simple one. Let's go to you first,
02:35Mark, on this one. Does Zakir's speech give you much hope for the future? There's lots
02:41of doom and gloom in that one earlier this week. Well, starting with having to make hard
02:48decisions and make the people have to realise that there's going to be some hard times ahead.
02:55Targeting people like pensioners with the fuel allowance. Yes, I agree that it needs
03:02to be looked at, because some people definitely don't need that. But there's a heck of a lot
03:08of people that are just above pension credits, that this is going to hit hard, who are going
03:15to have to make tough decisions, which is not going to help anybody. And potentially
03:22going to have people that are going to be switching off the heating, and with an older
03:26person, keeping warm could be the difference between life and death. Because Michael used
03:31to be nodding along there. I was wondering what your constituents are saying about this,
03:36because I heard this for the programme, that you're getting a few emails, calls in from
03:40residents in your ward. Definitely. Keir Starmer, the Prime Minister, said in his speech that
03:45those with the broader shoulders will take the most pain. But I would say the majority
03:50of my residents don't have broad shoulders, and they're going to take a lot of pain, especially
03:54from, as Mark said, the winter fuel payment being cut. But also tax increases. I was speaking
04:01to a business yesterday, actually, and they said to me they were concerned with potential
04:06increases in VAT, and also people's income taxes, because that will have a knock-on effect
04:11to these businesses. These small businesses will be indirectly impacted, or even directly
04:17impacted. We don't know yet what the plans are for corporation tax, or employers tax,
04:22etc. So I'm very concerned, and I'm very concerned for my residents, how this will impact them.
04:29Talking of winter fuel allowance again, not only has the winter fuel allowance been removed from
04:33a lot of my residents, but they're also going to be hit with increases in gas and electricity.
04:38So they're going to get a double whammy. You're talking around £500. That's £50 a month.
04:47Some people haven't got that, especially those in more senior age. So it's very concerning.
04:52Obviously, the Prime Minister did say that they did discover there's a £22 billion black hole
04:57that's part of why they're making these decisions, from their perspective, at least. I'm wondering,
05:04do you think that this reflects, rather than the struggles of the Labour government, perhaps
05:07the failures of the previous administration, or do you think that Labour are slightly fudging
05:13the numbers here? I think the Labour government are going to use this as an excuse, I think,
05:19for a lot of the term that they all have. I remember Keir Starmer saying that he needs
05:2510 years, I think he said, to fix the economy. I don't see how long he can go on for using that
05:30excuse, because he's going to have to start making decisions about where money is spent.
05:35Things like the winter fuel allowance, that's a decision which he's making.
05:39I would like the government to go after and put energy into trying to retrieve tax avoidance money
05:46from these big corporations, and to help small businesses so the economy can grow. I think that's
05:51where he needs to focus his efforts. I think going after pensioners and going after what I call the
05:57little people is not a good move. It's an easy option, but long term it will affect the economy,
06:03it will cause more harm to the economy, and he will be in a worse position with the finances.
06:07I also think Keir Starmer's speech, which happened, is basically just putting the ducks in a row,
06:13ready for the Chancellor when her speech comes in October, to try and soften the blow. But I am
06:19concerned about what's coming forward with taxes and people's finances and well-being.
06:25Mark, just before we move on to the next topic, obviously income tax, VAT, National Insurance,
06:31Rachel Reeves has said that these won't be increased. Are these tax rises then going to
06:38impact more people that can handle them, or do you think that these tax rises that could be on
06:45the horizon might actually have wider impacts? Well, most of the taxes in this country are
06:52impacted. The people that used to be the working class, the mid to higher levels of working class
06:59and the lower levels of middle class, they're the ones that are going to be hit the most.
07:04As Mark was saying, small businesses pay more corporation tax than the likes of Amazon.
07:10If you think the recent numbers we have is 2022 for Amazon, £221 million profit for the UK,
07:18for one of their divisions, and they were given £7.7 million back in tax that they didn't pay.
07:23So, if you look at that, and you've got Google, Facebook, you could plug most of that £22 billion
07:31shortage by making all companies pay a fair share, and not just small companies. I work
07:37for a small company, and we pay our corporation tax, but we also try and invest to increase the
07:43business, which includes taking on more people. If that's going up, there's going to be less money
07:48to be able to invest into the business to move that forward and take on more people. It's just
07:54going to make it a lot harder, and it's going to make a lot of small business owners decide,
07:58is it really worth it? And that's going to hit the government's coffers, because small
08:04business start closing, there's going to be a lot less money coming in. I wanted to ask then,
08:08because obviously the Conservative government have been accused of perhaps not taxing those bigger
08:14corporations as highly as they should. Do you think that was perhaps a failure, a misstep from
08:20the Conservative Party that potentially cost them during the election? Do you think that
08:25this, from Labour's perspective, is righting a wrong from the previous administration?
08:30Well, a lot of the time it is that they said before Brexit that we couldn't, if these companies
08:36set up anywhere in the EU, they pay taxes to whatever that EU country was. The idea of Brexit
08:42would give that control. Politicians across the board didn't want Brexit, did everything they could
08:49to stifle Brexit, and are surrendering as much as possible back to the EU, which has stopped them
08:56getting on to setting our tax laws to benefit the UK and not benefit these multinational companies
09:05from around the world. Well, we'll move on to a different set of regulations, because of course
09:11the government is considering plans to ban smoking in pub gardens, leaving Kent's
09:19landlords and locals divided under smoking proposals. Pub gardens as well as nightclub smoking,
09:27as well as smoking on places like roof terraces, could be banned, with some thinking it could
09:33hurt hospitality. But obviously there is a lot of division here. Some people are concerned that it
09:42could improve hospitality going forward and make it more attractive.
09:48What do you both think of this? Obviously it's caused a tiny bit of controversy amongst the
09:54hospitality industry, but it has left people divided. Do you think it's a good idea?
09:59To be honest, I was quite surprised by this policy announcement. We're only two
10:05months into this shiny new government and prime minister, and it feels to me as if they've already
10:11reached the fag end of policies, quite frankly. I don't think this is a priority for people,
10:19for the country. In terms of bans, what I'd like to see is bans for those that can buy knives
10:26under the age of 25. I want to see bans of knives which you can buy over the internet. I think it
10:32should be done in person so people can age verify those that are buying these products. That's where
10:37I think the public and local people want to see any kind of bans which are coming forward.
10:43So I was quite surprised by this. I do think it will harm pubs and venues and restaurants etc.
10:49They're already struggling, small businesses are already struggling, and this will, I think,
10:54just make it harder for them to survive. We will see more closures as a result of this policy.
11:00We'll apologise for some of the language used there. I'm going to go to you, Mark, because
11:05obviously the government say that 80,000 people a year die of smoking and there are
11:12billions of pounds of costs to taxpayers because of smoking. Do you think that this is part of a
11:17wider strategy to deter people from smoking entirely, that this has ulterior benefits,
11:22ulterior reasons to do it? With the smoking, the previous government had brought in a policy
11:29where a person born today or even a person at school today will not be able to smoke as the
11:39smoking ban rises up. Stopping people smoking in pub gardens is not going to stop them smoking.
11:45These people have been smoking for a huge part of their life. They will just smoke at home.
11:50Cut you off there because we're going to be back after the break
11:53with more Kent Politics news from across the county.
14:49Welcome back to the Kent Politics show live on KMTV. Still with me is Councillor Michael
15:14Pearce, Deputy Leader of the Medway Independent Group, and Councillor Mark Joy, Conservative
15:19Member for Children's Services and Education. In more local news, despite significant opposition,
15:27controversial plans to build hundreds of homes on Medway farmland have been approved. On Wednesday,
15:34councillors granted planning permission for the Gibraltar farm development following nearly 800
15:40objections from neighbours. What could this mean for future development in the five towns?
15:45Is it cause for concern in rural areas of Medway, such as Raynham and the Hoo Peninsula?
15:51The Local Democracy Reporting Service has spoken to some of those politicians, divided by the
15:57decision. I'm really disappointed. As has been said, over 700 people wrote to object. MPs locally
16:04objected and the community itself, I think, is very concerned about this. However, my colleagues
16:09were left in a very, very difficult situation. Twice, this council has rejected local plans
16:16under the Conservatives, and I'm afraid this is now the outcome of a council that doesn't have
16:21an upstate local plan. It's a difficult one. I'm not here to criticise the previous administration.
16:27I think there were some strategic errors made on the local plan. I think the previous administration
16:31should have forced the local plan for a vote and taken the, you know, just taken it. Yet we have
16:37suffered from a lack of a local plan. I can't deny it. Well, Councillor Mark Joy and Councillor
16:43Michael Pearce are still with me. And Mark, I wanted to go to you first on this one, because
16:47we heard there that a local plan is being kind of touted as the reason this development went ahead.
16:54And what do you make of that? Do you think that Medway Council, both administrations, kind of bear
16:59some responsibility for not getting a local plan off the ground to deal with developments like this
17:04one? Getting a local plan off the ground is not the administration's responsibility, either this
17:11one or the last one. It's the responsibility of every member of the council. Under the last
17:17administration, Labour councillors voted against the local plan just for the sake of voting against
17:24it. Everybody needs to get together, needs to find some compromise and move this forward for
17:31the benefit of the residents. Or we're going to end up losing other areas that sit close to areas
17:37of outstanding natural beauty across Medway. And until all political parties in Medway Council
17:45get down and work together, the local plan is not going to get through. And it needs to be a priority
17:50for all of our parties. And obviously, Michael, you were actually at the planning meeting. You
17:55voted, I think, in favour of the development. Can you explain your decision for this? Because it was
18:01quite controversial. There were hundreds of objections. Why did you vote this through?
18:06The situation with this application is a difficult one because there is history with this site.
18:14There were previous applications, one of them approved on appeal. So the principle of development
18:19has already been established. And planning is, in short, a legal process with either side putting
18:25across their case and a judge, inspector in the middle, coming to a decision. So this application
18:32from a planner's perspective had to be approved at the last meeting. It couldn't be objected to.
18:37It couldn't be refused because if it was refused, it would probably be taken to appeal. And there's
18:42a 99% chance it would be won on appeal. So it would be futile to object to the application
18:49because of the precedent that's already been set on that site. But absolutely, planning is a very
18:54controversial issue. And lots of people are upset with applications, including in my own ward.
19:01But you have to have planning reasons to refuse applications. And it has happened. The council
19:08has, to be fair to them, they have gone to appeal with applications and won. There was an application
19:13in my ward for 500 homes between Chatterdon and Hoo. That was won by the community because
19:19there were proper grounds to refuse it. That included things like sustainability in terms of
19:24its access to the existing village and things like that. So we can't blanket refuse every
19:30application. I think the elephant in the room with planning in the Medway Towns and the Peninsula
19:34is the fact that we've got a 30,000 home housing target set by the Labour administration.
19:40That means that nowhere is safe, pretty much, in the Medway Towns and the Hoo Peninsula for housing
19:46development. That is a big problem and that needs to be tackled. So Medway is in the top 40%
19:53most densely populated local authority areas and half of Medway's landmass is rural. Do you think
20:00that rural building is therefore inevitable to make sure that we're meeting those housing
20:06targets? Obviously, there's so many concerns about affordable housing in Medway and obviously
20:12Raynham and the Hoo Peninsula, where you're both councillors, have lots of rural land. Isn't it
20:17inevitable that that land could see housing development going forward? At the moment, as I
20:22mentioned, developers, if you're a private developer in the Medway Towns or on the Peninsula,
20:28you will say to the planning department and you will say to any potential inspector,
20:32Medway Council's got a 30,000 home target that they have to meet and they will use that in their
20:37legal argument, planning argument, in favour of the application. Because of that target,
20:45although there is impact from development, such as roads, such as schools, such as doctors,
20:49hospitals, all those things which are really important, because of the planning system we've
20:54got in this country, which I think is not fit for purpose, those applications still get
20:59weighted to the developer. It's not fair. Hoo, for example, in my ward, has increased by 50%
21:06in the last 10 years and that's from the census data. The reason why those applications were
21:12approved was because basically the developers had more weight in their argument with the policies
21:19that exist nationally and locally. That's why the inspectors at those appeals and that's why
21:23the planners at those application stages approved them. Mark, I wanted to bring you in here because
21:31obviously the Conservative group is the largest opposition group within Medway Council and we
21:37haven't necessarily heard where the group stands that much on the local plan consultation currently
21:44underway from the Labour administration. What is your stance on the local plan? What needs to be
21:50included in it? Where should housing be developed? There's like three options, I'm sure you're aware.
21:56What should the local plan look like in your view? Well, this is probably more of my view
22:04than totally across the group. In Medway, we need the infrastructure to go with it.
22:11We need the health services to go with it. Medway Maritime Hospital wasn't built for half
22:20the people it accommodates now and there's been opportunities in an area prime for commuting
22:29where that hospital sits. Why haven't we looked at moving the hospital to the edges of Medway,
22:38near to the motorway links, so you've got the infrastructure there to get there and build a
22:43hospital that's fit for the 21st century for Medway and Swell. You've also got to look at
22:50why do people want to keep living in the South East? The idea was that levelling up was to
22:58try and make other areas of the UK attractive. Why do we have to tarmac over what was called
23:05the Garden of England? Because at the moment, certain areas of Medway do not look like a garden.
23:12Yes, Raynham's got some areas, but you're then building on the marshland, which is areas that
23:17take excess water when water levels are high, when rain levels are high. You start building
23:23on marshland, we're going to be getting the same issues that places like Boscastle and Limmoth had,
23:31because when that water comes down, if they've not got the floodplains, which are the marshlands,
23:36they're going to go into housing areas. We're quite lucky in Medway, we've not had that yet,
23:41but the more you build on that marshland, the area that soaks away all this excess water,
23:46the more likely that's going to be. Well, I think we could talk about housing and development
23:51in Medway for hours. We have to move on to our last segment of the programme. And finally,
23:58tonight, workers in the UK and Kent could get the right to request a four day week.
24:03On the new government plans, workers were still to clock in their usual contracted hours,
24:08because squeeze that into fewer days, as long as it's feasible for what they're doing.
24:13Currently, employers can request flexible hours as soon as they start the company,
24:18but employers are not legally obliged to agree. But is Kent ready for a four day working week?
24:26I think it's a very good idea. Yes, because I think it would be easier on people who don't
24:31want to do five days. I think if you work for a very big business, then they can afford to do it.
24:35I think if you work for a very small business, it might drive that business to the wall.
24:39So on a personal level, fabulous. On a business level, not so much.
24:45I think it's ideal. I mean, I do four days sometimes, three days sometimes, six days.
24:52Yeah, I think it's beneficial.
24:54I think it's a good idea, but the hours are going to be too long. People don't want to spend
25:00seven to whenever in work when they've got kids. They want to go home and see the kids.
25:06I think we ought to go to as many days a week as we manage to serve the economy,
25:13manage to actually serve the country in the best way. And I don't think a three day,
25:19four day working from home all the time is the best way for us to go.
25:25So, people who are midway divided today, obviously some in favour of a four day working week.
25:30What are your positions on it? Do you think it's a good idea for people in the five towns?
25:36Again, I don't see why this is a priority for this new government. There's so many issues in
25:42the country at the moment, more pressing issues to be put in. Because all of these policies,
25:48all of these ideas, they take up time, civil service time, administration time, they cost money
25:54to develop. I can't see how it's a priority. There's much more bigger issues to deal with.
25:59Four day working week, it will benefit some workers, but it will then disadvantage other
26:03workers. Like, for example, in the public sector, those that are involved in refuse,
26:08they can't do a four day week. And Mark, what do you make of it as someone
26:11who is involved in a small business himself? The legislation's already there for flexible
26:18working, where it suits both the employee and the employer. Giving 100% carte blanche to the
26:26employee is going to, again, with everything else that Keir Starmer seeming to do to small
26:33businesses at the moment, it's just going to keep putting nails in that coffin. Ideally,
26:39I'd love all of our people in our company to work four days. And sometimes we can do that,
26:44but at the moment we can't. I think we'll have to leave it there.
26:47Thank you so much for coming on to the programme.
26:48We'll have another episode of Kerwin Politics Show next week. Good night.
27:17you