Is Jeremy Swayman Deal FINALLY Close to Done? | Pucks with Haggs
Pucks with Haggs host Joe Haggerty had the New England Hockey Journal's Mark Divver and Mick Colageo as guests as they discussed the growing reports that the Swayman contract might be done, and what they Bruins are looking at during the start of training camp.
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SportsTranscript
00:00Pucks with Hags is brought to you by Price Picks and the Game Time app.
00:07Welcome to the Pucks with Hags podcast powered by Price Picks, the exclusive daily fantasy
00:11partner of the CLNS Media Network.
00:13I believe this is the 125th episode of the Pucks with Hags podcast.
00:17I have with me today a couple of longtime guests that have been with us, New England
00:21Hockey Journal's Mark Diver and longtime friend and colleague, Mick Colaggio.
00:25Mick, please tell everybody where they can see your work.
00:29It's on the Drinkwrap blog, I link to it on X, and you can see me in the hockey news
00:33from time to time with the big issues.
00:35Very nice, love it.
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01:11What time is it?
01:12Game time.
01:13It's a Game Time decision.
01:15That's it, Game Time, Mick.
01:17Let's get into it.
01:20We're recording this on Wednesday morning.
01:22This is the day that Bruins players report for NHL camp.
01:26Basically, they don't go on the ice.
01:28It's more physical testing, maybe medical testing, all that kind of stuff, sort of getting
01:33going.
01:34They'll be on the ice on Thursday.
01:36But the rosters were released on Tuesday night.
01:40Jeremy Swayman was not on the Bruins roster to start camp because he was not signed.
01:45There have been rumblings in a few places that Jeremy Swayman's deal is done and that
01:51he's signed.
01:52I've not seen it really confirmed anywhere.
01:55The usual sort of suspects that report these things saying it's done.
01:59Let's assume it's trending towards getting done but not done yet.
02:03Mark, I'm just curious, what do you think this deal might look like?
02:10If it's shorter term, I think the money is probably going to be in the 6.5 to 7.5 a year
02:17range.
02:18If it's longer term, like eight years, if they decide to lock them up for the max that
02:22they can do, it's probably going to be more because they're buying out free agent years
02:26and all that.
02:27Probably somewhere closer in the 7.5 to $8 million a year range.
02:32Just curious what you think or what you feel like might be the best deal to give Swayman
02:36at this point, given that there's a lot of complicated, this was not an easy deal, just
02:40given where both parties were coming from.
02:42I'm curious to see how it's going to turn out.
02:47I'm expecting, just based on the chatter in the media, I guess, or among the fan base,
02:54eight years, maybe $8 million a year, something like that.
03:01I don't know.
03:02I haven't drilled down on any of that stuff.
03:06I think eight years, ideally, if he continues to play well and progress in his career, eight
03:14years is good.
03:16If it was, say, four years or two years, I don't think that would be a positive development
03:25because then he'd be at free agency in very short order.
03:31If he turns out to be the stud that they hope he will be, then you want to lock him up and
03:35not have to worry in the short term that you're going to have a hole in that important position
03:41down the road.
03:43Yeah, most definitely.
03:45I think there's a danger there if the Bruins went the bridge route and went the prove it
03:53route with a two, three, four-year, even a four-year deal for lower money now in order
03:58to get the certainty of him going out and proving he could be the number one guy playing
04:0260-plus games, doing all the stuff he hasn't done to this point yet.
04:08Because if you did that and he performs exceedingly well, guess what?
04:12You're on the hook for 10, 11, whatever down the road where you're having to pay him top
04:17dollar with an elevated salary cap as one of the NHL's best goalie if not the best goalie.
04:24He's going to be setting the market at that point and you're going to be paying a lot
04:27more money if you're the Boston Bruins if you kick a can three or four years down the
04:32road.
04:33Whereas now, if you feel like if you're the Bruins and you feel like you know that he's
04:38the guy and frankly, I think there's going to be some speed bumps this year for Jeremy
04:43Swayman not having Allmark there, all the responsibility on his shoulders.
04:48If he goes into a little bit of a slump, you're not going to have a Vezina trophy winner next
04:53to him that's going to be able to come in and give him a blow.
04:55It's going to be a lot of pressure on him this year and I think it's going to be an
05:00adjustment period for him to get used to that.
05:04The Bruins I would think are sort of stealing themselves to that possibility and preparing
05:11for it, but if you believe he's the guy, Mick, and I know you've been adamant about this
05:17that you should pay him that kind of money.
05:19You feel like you're paying him for future performance.
05:22That's kind of the right way to go in some respects and certainly, I know you felt that
05:27the precedent is there where if you're going to pay McAvoy before he's truly proven he's
05:31the number one guy.
05:32You should probably do the same for Swayman and if it turns out to be eight years, eight
05:37million a year, something in that range, as some suspect, you are going to be paying him
05:41for quite a bit of future performance there.
05:45Your thoughts, Mick, on where you think this is going to land and what you think is going
05:51to happen from here going forward with Swayman?
05:55Swayman is obviously proving himself to be an astute businessman in this process with
05:59the comments that he's made to the media.
06:02He hasn't been adversarial, but at the same time, he's shown that he knows exactly what
06:08is going on, every angle from which to perceive it, has educated himself on the process in
06:14substantial ways, not just by listening to his agent and has been pretty impressive in
06:22his situation.
06:23He's almost like a Mike Greenwell.
06:24He doesn't need an agent to go get a contract.
06:27So I think he took off the red wristbands and he grabbed his briefcase and marched in
06:40and got his own deal done.
06:42So I think that a couple of thoughts real quick.
06:47One, I don't think it ends well if Swayman goes short term and he's going to probably
06:55say, yeah, sure.
06:56Pay me my current rate for two years, you know, and buy, you know, and the Bruins have
07:03set themselves up.
07:05They pretty much bought the house, the picket fence, the boat and everything.
07:09Take the knee, marry the girl, you know, I mean, let's go.
07:13This is what's happening all around the league.
07:16And if you're going to quote me, I feel the same way about Pasternak.
07:18I feel like he got over $11 million a year before he was an $11 million player.
07:26So that's my thoughts on that.
07:28Eight times eight, like Mark said, I've thought all along that this is where this should go.
07:33I'm not saying what's right in my opinion.
07:35I'm not being like the great Harry Sinden when it came time to talk about players that
07:40actually stopped banging his fist on a table like a fan in a bar room, you know, he's not
07:45a this million dollar player, you know, it's like it's not that it's the business of hockey.
07:49It's what it is.
07:50It's the way it's been going.
07:52How do you not go forward this way with Swayman?
07:54I know you've said all along, not goalies.
07:56Yeah, well, everybody was the first one, whether it was the first right wing, the first
08:00defenseman, whatever, there was a first one Swayman, Swayman saying that, you know, that
08:06that's that's a that's a plastic, you know, expendable demarcation.
08:13Yeah, it is.
08:14And we'll see, though, Mick, right?
08:15Like if they sign him to this contract and then he can't really maintain his effectiveness
08:22and his consistency playing more than 45 games a year and you need somebody else that
08:27can play 30 to 40 games a year, it's going to turn out to not be a great deal.
08:32And it's going to turn out to be problematic in some ways because you're sinking too much
08:35money into goaltending if he can't do it.
08:38And you're doing it sight unseen, which is not usually good business in the NHL.
08:41So there's a lot of risk here for the Boston Bruins in that attitude of like, hey, we just
08:47got to pay everybody before they've actually shown they can do it because that's just the
08:51way the NHL is going.
08:52Like you can't do that and effectively ice an NHL team, because sometimes you're going
08:56to be wrong on these guys if you're projecting instead of actually seeing them go out and
09:00perform that way.
09:01And especially with goaltenders, that's such a crapshoot position, much more than forward
09:05and defenseman.
09:06It's similar to relief pitchers in baseball, where they can be really good one year and
09:10then not so good the next.
09:12And there's a lot of inconsistency and volatility in that position.
09:15And that's why it's viewed in a different way.
09:17And that's why GMs and talent evaluators, the trade values aren't as high.
09:22That's why they don't typically get paid as much.
09:24Now, on the flip side of that, if he turns into Andre Wazilewski, if he turns into a
09:30guy that can play 60 plus games, can maintain performance, can be a number one guy, will
09:34be an all-star net minor, will continue to play the way that he does in the playoffs
09:38and did in the playoffs last year.
09:40And frankly, I'm willing to give him that one as a given.
09:43And that's, I think, a big part of the value here is that he did what he did for a month
09:47last year and he was their best player in the playoffs.
09:49And I think the Bruins saw that and said, you know what, we're going to pay for that
09:53kind of performance with our playoff team and have a goalie in there that's nails in
09:56the postseason.
09:57And that's a big part of it.
09:58Like, all that stuff goes into the stew when you decide how much you're going to pay and
10:02what you're going to pay.
10:04But I think at the end of the day, like I've agreed and I've said all along, while I did
10:10have a problem with them going even this high with a guy that's never played more than 44
10:15games in a season, the guy that's basically played three years, a guy that's always had
10:18a Vezina Trophy winner as a partner that he could rely on next to him.
10:22Even though all these things are true, I believe in Jeremy Swayman.
10:25And I've believed in him since the first day I saw him in training camp.
10:29I've believed in him since the first year he was pro.
10:31I was absolutely all season long last year calling for him to be the guy starting out
10:36of the playoff gate and starting game one.
10:38And he should have been given the ball during the postseason last year instead of Omar.
10:42So like, I firmly believe he's going to live up to the contract and he's going to be able
10:46to do it.
10:47And he's a special goaltender.
10:48So at the end of the day, I think the Bruins made a call and a bet here that they're going
10:52to be able, he's going to be able to live up to and that they're going to feel good
10:55about.
10:56But I just feel like there's more risk here than there would have been otherwise.
11:01And maybe there was no other way to go just because of the circumstances.
11:05But there's also a part of me that, you know, and some people have mentioned this, they're
11:10going to put Don Sweeney under the microscope a little bit for one thing that they could
11:16have done differently is they could have asked for two years in arbitration last year.
11:21And that maybe would have like avoided this whole situation and put it off for a year.
11:28And then they would have had surety at this point going into, you know, after one season,
11:32this next season to know if he was the number one guy or not.
11:35Now, the other side was he was he going to be RFA again?
11:40To me, that's the whole question there.
11:41Yeah.
11:42I don't think he would have been RFA again after that.
11:44No, he would have been.
11:45And that's part of it.
11:46And I would I would not want to have gone.
11:48I think that was a canceler of that option, I guess, Mick.
11:51But like, look, let's be let's be honest here.
11:53And Mark, you can chime in on this if you want to.
11:56Let's be honest here.
11:57Jeremy Swain wasn't going anywhere.
11:59He didn't his agent didn't even put out the like the phantom threat of a mystery team
12:04like like he wants to get traded.
12:06He wants to go.
12:07So Jeremy Swain loves Boston, loves the Boston Bruins.
12:10Always want to sign here.
12:11It was never a risk that he was going anywhere.
12:12I think they probably knew this last year that he loves being here and he loves being
12:16a part of this team.
12:17So there really wasn't a flight risk with this player.
12:21I think the bigger thing was you piss him off even more than he already was bitter about
12:25the arbitration process if you lock him into two years instead of one, Mark.
12:29But like there is a little bit of a second guess here to when the Bruins had the leverage
12:34using it, if it was going to be a bitter process, an acrimonious process and arbitration anyway,
12:38you might as well have gone for the two years.
12:41Had the certainty, had it been able to look at him this one year where you knew you were
12:44probably going to trade all mark and then give him this kind of money following this
12:48year if he performed like the way you thought he was going.
12:52Well I think Harry Sinden would have used that leverage.
12:56You would have told him to go yodeling in Sweden if he wanted an arbitration.
13:00But you know, a lot of those arbitrations end up pissing off the player and creating
13:09hard feelings and hopefully that was avoided this time and he can get his money and settle
13:18in for what hopefully is a long run in the Boston net.
13:23If that happens, then I think it's a win for both sides.
13:27Yeah, I think so too.
13:31At the end of the day, Mick, I think the way Jeremy Swayman played last year and the way
13:36I think he's going to perform, yes, this is the richest deal that they've ever given a goalie,
13:40the Bruins, richer even than Tuca got when he got his contract.
13:44But I do think he's going to be able, if it is indeed $8 million a year, I do believe he's
13:52going to be able to live up to it in the long term.
13:56If it's an eight year deal, three years into this, this may look like a sweet bargain for a
14:02guy that's a Vesna Trophy-like finalist candidate pretty much every year.
14:07Yep, I think the decision to trade Allmark proves that they view it the way you do, Joe,
14:13that they've seen him the way you see him, but due diligence and building up incrementally
14:18to the decision to trade Allmark, it's really, you know, it's funny because camp opens
14:26today and he's not signed.
14:30It really casts such a pale on what has been such a positive process.
14:38What team has had the embarrassment of riches that the Boston Bruins have, including the
14:44great Russian goaltenders in this league and four different cities I can think of off the
14:48top of my head, to have been really foundational to their success?
14:54The Bruins have been a goaltending team more than anything these past few years.
14:59So now that we're here, the precipice of the season, this is a team that's coming of age.
15:06It's a team that's coming through the succession of the O-Guard has completely dropped off
15:12except for Marchant.
15:13And we are now in the fruition and the maturation of the Pasta, McAvoy era and the group
15:20that's come with them and the acquisitions.
15:22And now what they did this summer, it's all adding up that this is where the Bruins are
15:27supposed to make their big push.
15:28And this is supposed to be really the referendum for this management group.
15:34So I think that on one hand, it's crucial that this gets done.
15:40And like Chris Hurley reminded me of the Pat Burns comment that he had never seen a camp
15:48holdout ever go well for the team or the player.
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17:28I mean, it's not.
17:29This is true.
17:30And like we've had a few, we haven't had many camp holdouts because usually they take
17:35care of things. But you're right.
17:36It does not end well when it does happen.
17:39If you want to pull back even further than the last few years, Mick, frankly, the Bruins
17:47have had like a tradition now and it's become a tradition of dominant goaltending for a
17:53long, long time.
17:54Like we go, you can go back 17 years and it's 17, 18 years and it's a continuous run of
18:01Tim Thomas to Tuca Rask to Linus Allmark to Jeremy Swayman continuously all the way
18:06through. They've had goaltending excellence this whole time.
18:10They've had guys that have won Vezina trophies every single one of them.
18:14You know, you're you're talking about like one of those things.
18:17It's kind of like the, you know, the Red Sox for left left fielder for a longest time.
18:23They had like, what was it, 30 years, 40 years of like Hall of Fame left fielders playing
18:28there every day at Fenway Park from, you know, Ted Williams to Kari Stremski to Jim Rice
18:33and even to your boy, Mike Greenwell.
18:35When he came in after Jim, he wasn't.
18:37I can't believe I'm in this.
18:38I'm juxtaposed with that comment.
18:41But then I was never I was never a Greenwell fan.
18:44I just popped into my head because because he was famous for walking in offices with
18:49his briefcase when his contract time.
18:51But but bottom line, the Bruins and one of their hallmarks now, and it's been this way
18:56for almost 20 years, is that they have like a Vezina trophy level dominant goaltender
19:01in net. They've been blessed to have extremely good goaltending for almost two decades.
19:06Yeah, and I think it's not coincidental that that this really began with Claude Julian
19:10and his own defense.
19:12And I think that enabling his goaltenders to more patiently replays by having the
19:18defenseman stay inside the dots and having I don't know if anybody saw that touchdown
19:23pass where the Bruins rookies get scored on in the in the in the was it the Jersey game?
19:29Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was like the two to one goal.
19:31Yeah. Yeah.
19:32Yeah. And that one there, they had a defenseman out there, a right side defenseman.
19:38And his name is escaping me right now.
19:40But he was so far outside the dots on his pitch that he just opened up the middle of
19:45the ice for that play.
19:46He just stepped out like a matador.
19:48And and and that's just so antithetical to how the Bruins play.
19:52And that really shows you about these rookie games.
19:54You just want to see energy.
19:55You want to see people impact the game.
19:58And that's what you're looking for.
20:00It's like a camp game.
20:01It's the systems.
20:02It's just not really there.
20:04Everybody's playing whatever they learn coming to it, even though they're told what
20:08it is, what we do, nobody's going to do it well unless they've been in the system for
20:11a year or more.
20:12So it's but that's how the Bruins play.
20:15And I think that that's really helped stabilize their goaltending.
20:19And I don't think that I'm not saying that manufactured good goaltending and that these
20:23guys wouldn't be good.
20:24I mean, God knows the great stats that they've put up these last two seasons have really
20:29been the product of their goaltending.
20:31And not so much the system or the players around them.
20:37That said, I do think that what Bruce Cassidy kept and tweaked and what Jim Montgomery
20:43has kept and tweaked has been still that same system.
20:49And I talked to Razor down in Plymouth on the Fan Fest and asked him this question.
20:53And he said, no doubt that the zone absolutely helps the goalie.
20:57It helps him know where the puck is.
21:00He knows things are under control.
21:01He doesn't have to guess in his wider range of where it's going to wind up and where the
21:05shots come from.
21:06Yeah, that's a great segue to Mick, because what something else we want to talk about
21:11is the prospect showdown there in Buffalo.
21:14The camp, rookie camp is now concluded.
21:17NHL camp is starting.
21:19The rookies were all in Buffalo for the weekend.
21:21We have a guest here, Mark Diver, who made the trek to Buffalo happily and maybe hit
21:26the Tim Hortons that connects to the rink over there a couple of times as the weekend
21:30was going on.
21:32Mark, your impressions from watching those games, from talking to people, from taking
21:36it all in.
21:37Anything that sort of changed your mind or crystallized things in your mind of what you
21:42think about some of these guys headed into main camp?
21:45I wouldn't say anything that happened there changed my mind, but it certainly was a pedestrian
21:52group that the Bruins brought.
21:54And people from other teams commented on that a lot that, hey, the Bruins didn't bring
22:02much.
22:06They didn't, but in their defense, if they need to be defended, they've traded a lot
22:13of draft picks in recent years.
22:15The guys they have drafted, many of their top guys are in college, so they weren't
22:19eligible to play in Buffalo.
22:21So the roster that they brought was kind of cobbled together with some Providence guys,
22:30and also they left off.
22:32They could have brought Lysell.
22:34They could have brought Merkel off.
22:36They could have brought even maybe Pocher, although I'm not sure.
22:42Do we know if he's been cleared for contact in games?
22:45I don't know.
22:46No, we don't know.
22:47We'll find that out today.
22:48We don't know that.
22:49So maybe you could have brought him, but he's coming off an injury.
22:56I'm sure they want to be cautious with him, so that makes sense.
23:00But the group that they did bring, they got a win, an overtime loss, and then a loss in
23:09regulation time.
23:10It wasn't—there were a lot of guys out there whose names you will never hear again in wearing
23:16Bruins uniforms.
23:17Yep.
23:18Free agent, undrafted guys from the junior ranks, just kind of filling the jersey for
23:27a few games.
23:28I felt like there were a lot of picks on other teams in the top three rounds, and the Bruins
23:33had a lot of guys who were in the bottom three rounds.
23:36Absolutely.
23:37The guys Buffalo brought, they got all these first-round picks, great young talents.
23:47Hasn't done them a whole lot of good so far, but one of these years it might.
23:54Yep.
23:55But Boston's guys, the kids that they brought, Farinacci, Harrison, Duran, Kuntar, Brunet,
24:07guys like that, played pretty well, all of them.
24:12Brunet's got skills, man.
24:14He's got some slick moves.
24:16He does.
24:17And you've got to keep in mind who he was playing against at that thing.
24:21But the thing that stood out to me, and I go to this thing pretty much every year, and
24:28it stands out to me the progress kids make from year to year.
24:34Last year, Brunet and Harrison looked like they were in over their heads.
24:39Yeah.
24:40They were headed—19, 20-year-olds headed into their first year pro.
24:45They kind of had a deer-in-the-headlights look.
24:47And this year, after a year in the American League, a year in which they weren't
24:55dependent on to be key guys in any way in Providence.
25:00They were end-of-the-roster type guys as rookies.
25:04But the improvement was noticeable.
25:08And confidence has a lot to do with it.
25:11I talked to Brunet on Friday about how his game now, compared to a year ago,
25:17and confidence is all he talked about.
25:19That he feels like, OK, I can do this.
25:23I know what to do.
25:25So he was good.
25:30Farinacci has taken a step from last year.
25:34Yep.
25:35Durant continues to—the arrow continues to point up on him.
25:44I think it'll be interesting to see how he fares in the NHL exhibition games,
25:49assuming he gets into a few of them.
25:53I was really impressed with Farinacci's hockey IQ throughout,
25:56because I hadn't watched him a ton in those games.
25:58You could tell he's an extremely smart player,
26:01making really good, clever plays with the puck,
26:03and smart decisions all the time, managing the puck well.
26:06And he's got the offensive skill to create a little bit of offense.
26:09So you could see all those things.
26:10But for me, and Durant, obviously, I'm sold on him.
26:13I really like him.
26:15But to me, the guy that stood out the most—and Mark, I mentioned this to you
26:18before we started recording—was Harrison.
26:20I thought that was by far the best I've ever seen him look,
26:24the most confident.
26:25Like, he's always had the shot.
26:27He was able to get it off more.
26:29He had some really nice passes and some nice setups for other players.
26:34You can tell he knows what to do with the puck.
26:36I'm not sure how much he's going to be impactful
26:40or become really enticing at the NHL level,
26:43because I'm not sure how much he does,
26:45aside from the shooting and the passing and some of the offensive skill stuff.
26:49But that's going to be his bread and butter.
26:50If he's going to make it to the NHL,
26:52it's because he can really shoot the puck and he can create some offense.
26:56And he's got pretty good size.
26:57But Mick, for me, Harrison was the guy that I saw a weekend and said,
27:01OK, I've been waiting for him to show me something,
27:03to say I belong here, I'm a prospect, I can be an impact guy.
27:07And you started to see it in that rookie camp.
27:10And maybe he builds on that going into regular camp.
27:12I don't know how much muscle he can put on that frame,
27:15but that's clearly going to be the measurable piece over the next few years.
27:22It's going to determine whether or not he's got a big league future.
27:25Because skills wise, there's a lot there to look at.
27:30You know, you talk about Farinacci, who obviously has got some polish,
27:35but I'm wondering if he's angling toward a letary kind of a career,
27:38being a guy who's already hitting his mid-20s and is really substantially older
27:43than the other players that he was on the ice with in this tournament.
27:47And those years are huge at that point.
27:50The other kid that really intrigued me was the one who kept going to Lynette.
27:54European player, Matura, I know I'm not saying it right,
27:57but I thought that he was really aggressive going to the net, Mark.
28:01And I don't know if you got a look at him and got a chance to really
28:06sort of size up what you think of his career.
28:08I think he played ECHL last year.
28:10Who was that, Nick?
28:11Matura.
28:12Matura.
28:13Matura, yeah.
28:14Yeah, he went to the net real hard and scored a couple goals from in the blue.
28:20And I just liked the way he played.
28:22And I don't know if there's, you know, for a kid, I think, playing the E last year,
28:30what his career tracking might look like.
28:33Well, he came to the camp last year as an invite,
28:38like some of these guys that I mentioned that
28:42didn't have draft picks, don't have contracts.
28:45But he came last year.
28:47He was eligible to play in the Western League again last year.
28:50And he ended up being invited to Providence training camp,
28:54and they signed him out of there to a two-year deal.
28:58He ended up playing most of the year in Maine.
29:02Did pretty well.
29:03Was in Providence some of the time, but didn't play a lot.
29:06Didn't play a lot.
29:07But he's big.
29:08He's 6'4", you know, doesn't get around the ice that great, but he gets there.
29:14But I would agree that this year he had some real good shifts
29:20in Buffalo.
29:22I think he'll be in for a fight to grab a spot in Providence.
29:29But he might be able to do it.
29:32You know, they like his size.
29:33They wouldn't have signed him last year if they didn't think there was something there.
29:37So, yeah, he was a lot better, and he's still young.
29:40I think he might still be just 20 years old.
29:44Yeah.
29:45Yeah, you're saying he might need years the way Brazzo needed years
29:49to become whatever he's going to be.
29:50But there's clearly something there.
29:52And I think as long as a guy really wants to pedal to the metal like he is,
29:56then they're going to give him longer looks.
29:59Well, and like Brazzo, you can't teach size, you know?
30:02Like he's 6'4", 6'5".
30:06You're dealing with a piece of clay there that's got some talent.
30:09You're going to be patient with him because he could turn into something
30:12that could help you down the road, as Brazzo is doing at this point.
30:17Yeah.
30:18From what I saw, and to your point, Mark, they didn't bring some of their A guys that
30:24they could have and that some, frankly, they don't have because they weren't able to draft
30:29those guys or they're in college.
30:30So it was kind of a ragtag group that they brought to Buffalo, but I thought they still
30:36competed pretty well.
30:36I thought some of the guys that you thought should be the best players and should stand
30:40out did.
30:41You know, the Providence Bruins regulars that were on that team, I thought,
30:44really acquitted themselves well.
30:47Obviously, a good weekend as far as performance for Riley Duran in the first couple of games.
30:51A little bit of a tough ending, though, Mark, you said, right?
30:53He had something happen where he had to have some dental work done.
30:57Yeah.
30:58I'm not sure if he got a stick or a puck, but yeah, apparently he needed a couple of,
31:03I was told he needed a couple of root canals before he-
31:07That's a tough way to start NHL camp, a couple of root canals.
31:10But hey, he's a hockey player, you know?
31:11Yeah, yeah.
31:12So-
31:13Look like Bobby Clark for the team picture.
31:16Will he be on the ice for the first day tomorrow?
31:19Hey, I have no idea.
31:20He might be wearing a bubble if he is.
31:22Yeah.
31:24If I were-
31:26If Jimmy Duran is listening and if Riley's mom is listening,
31:31suggest the bubble to Riley.
31:32Get him to wear it for the first few days.
31:33Protect those chicklets.
31:35Well, good hockey parents.
31:37Jim and his wife were both in Buffalo, so-
31:39That's right.
31:39Of course they were.
31:40Real quick, just want to stick in, too.
31:42The second game was the one I saw the most, and I thought the kid,
31:45Annette Oak, I thought he gave a really good account of himself.
31:49I thought he really played well.
31:51He did. He did.
31:52He's a free agent.
31:54He backstopped Saginaw to the Memorial Cup win last season.
31:59So undrafted, but he's got some pedigree.
32:02He's a winner.
32:04And the way he jumped in there on short notice because another guy
32:07didn't pass his physical.
32:10So Oak rushed in from Michigan to jump in there.
32:17Yeah, that was a good performance by him.
32:20Who knows?
32:21So I'm going to keep an eye on down the road.
32:24Hey, Bussey, look at where Brandon Bussey is right now, right?
32:28Yeah.
32:29That's right.
32:29Yeah, well, goalies-
32:32Brandon was, what, 23, 24 when Boston signed him.
32:35It takes time for some of these guys.
32:39It's very rare.
32:41You can afford to be patient with goalies.
32:45Very rare that you see, like, a 20-year-old goalie out of juniors
32:49really doing exceptionally well in the minors or certainly not the NHL.
32:54But yeah, experience is everything.
32:57Ken Dryden needed time.
33:00You could see it with Devin Levi last year, right?
33:03Like, he goes from being lights out Northeastern, like,
33:06everybody thinks he's going to come in and be an impact guy in the NHL.
33:09I know.
33:10The re-entry into the NHL and being on that Buffalo team was challenging for him.
33:16And now he's in a dogfight with Ukko Pekka-Lukkanen to see who's going to be the guy
33:22that's going to get a lot of playing time there.
33:25That's good, though.
33:26He's developing, and it's going to be kind of a slow marinade for him
33:29instead of him getting thrown right into the fire.
33:31Yeah, the Montreal goalie plays for BC.
33:34I thought he was amazing last year.
33:36I mean, so I'm looking forward to that moment going forward here where I'm going to say,
33:41OK, I can see now it's a new level.
33:43It's this, it's that.
33:44But yeah, some guys, they really kind of make you feel like, wow, he's going to be great.
33:52All right.
33:54Regular camp is going to start this week.
33:56We're on the precipice of it right now.
33:59Mark, any things that you're looking at in particular that you're curious about
34:03going into main camp that you want to take a look at or you're keying on?
34:06Well, the usual stuff that's pretty much been talked about for a lot of the summer, Lysel.
34:12How does Lysel do?
34:13How does he look?
34:14Is he ready?
34:16Is he ready to grab this bull by the horns here?
34:24He can't kind of sit back and let it come to him.
34:27He's got to grab it.
34:30So I'm curious to see what he looks like.
34:34The same with Merkuloff.
34:38I think Lysel, because he plays right wing, is in a better position than maybe than anyone else.
34:43Let's face it.
34:46Merk is a center, but traditionally, how does he fit?
34:51Where does he fit?
34:53Is his competition Matt Potra at this point?
34:57No.
35:02It wouldn't hurt Potra one bit to spend some time in Providence.
35:06No.
35:07And I'm sure Tyler Johnson is going to factor into that equation.
35:10Yeah.
35:10But Merkuloff's another one.
35:15And then the new guys, the guys they signed, Kostelik and Tufte and some of those guys.
35:24How do they look?
35:25How do they fit into the lineup?
35:29Yeah, Jones.
35:30He's another one who has the profile of a big physical guy, doesn't score.
35:39I don't think he fights a lot.
35:41So what niche does he grab there?
35:46So guys like that.
35:48And then assuming, maybe I shouldn't assume, that Swayman is in there in short order,
35:55what's he look like?
35:57Especially when the games start.
36:02It would behoove him to get off to a strong start and not give any of the naysayers out there who
36:09say, he's not worth the money, don't pay him.
36:15Don't give them anything to work with there.
36:17Come out strong and play well right from the start.
36:22That would help him as well as the team as a whole.
36:25We'll be back to show in a minute, but let's thank our sponsors right here.
36:29And then right now we've got game time.
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36:45And the Patriots had to win to clinch a wildcard spot in the playoffs.
36:50And what did they do?
36:51They went out and beat the Bengals.
36:53They won the game.
36:54And I honestly remember this game very vividly because I was 11 years old at the time.
37:00And after the game was over, all the fans stormed the field,
37:04ran down, ripped off the goalposts, and carried it right out of the stadium.
37:08I wanted to go down and do it and join the crowd.
37:10My dad said, absolutely not.
37:12There is no frigging way you're going down there.
37:14And that was my first memory of seeing an NFL football game live.
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38:41What time is it?
38:42Game time.
38:44Yeah, and it would ease the pressure on him too.
38:47There's going to be elevated pressure on him to start this year,
38:51just based on the contract, based on that he's the guy now.
38:55There's a lot of eyes are going to be on him.
38:57And the best way to alleviate that pressure,
38:59and there will at least kick it down the road a little bit
39:02to maybe where he can deal with it a little better during the middle of the year,
39:05whenever like a struggle does happen,
39:07because I'm sure he's going to go through a stretch
39:08where he's going to scuffle a little bit,
39:10and the defense will too, is get off to a great start
39:12and sort of, you know, quiet those conversations for as long as you can
39:16before you sort of have to deal with them,
39:18which I'm sure you will at some point.
39:21The Lysel thing is well put and well taken.
39:24And I agree, the right wing part of it
39:27gives him sort of a leg up on maybe winning a job.
39:30And I think frankly, he fits the profile of a guy
39:33to replace Jake DeBrusque too, based on the way he plays,
39:37with the, you know, the speed and the offensive impact ability
39:40and some of the things that he does.
39:42You know, there aren't that many people
39:43that the Bruins have young player wise in their system,
39:45I think that could, you know,
39:47potentially or theoretically step in for a DeBrusque.
39:50And I think Lysel is one of the guys that at least has the tools
39:53to begin to be able to do that.
39:55So I think they're going to put him in a lot of positions to succeed,
40:00and they're going to hope he does
40:01and hope he takes the ball and runs with it, like you said.
40:03And he seizes that opportunity.
40:06Mick, what are you looking at most curiously
40:09here in training camp as it gets going?
40:12Everybody's going to have their eyes on the carousel at right wing.
40:16I'm also not making assumptions about Pavel Zaka.
40:21I think that it's natural to say, okay, that's a line.
40:25And so Zaka is no longer going to,
40:27they're no longer going to consider Pavel Zaka a center
40:30after for two years.
40:32The whole premise of acquiring him in the trade with New Jersey
40:37was to mature him under Bergeron and Crecce's eye
40:40and watch and learn and then get your experience.
40:45And last year, it all was unfolding as it should
40:49until we got to the hardest hockey of the year,
40:52at which point Monty had to make different options
40:55because the only question is, is winning.
40:57And, but that in no way made me think that
41:02this has got to be an experiment that's scrapped
41:04just because they got Elias Lindholm.
41:07So I'm not completely, I'm just feeling like
41:11it would be premature of myself to write off the possibility
41:15that Zaka would be down the middle in some scenario here
41:20that might not have necessitated an injury
41:24where he has to fill a gap for a while
41:26and then they get to figure out another winger
41:28to go with Lindholm and Pasta.
41:30Yeah, is it an ideal combination
41:32to take a good long look at?
41:33It is, but it's one of those things I'm just thinking
41:36Zaka's career track here had been angling toward
41:39becoming a center of one of the top two lines on this team.
41:42And now suddenly, beginning last year at the end
41:46when he was put back, he's on third line,
41:49then he was on left wing on the top line.
41:53You know, so he started getting moved around
41:56and now where are we at with him?
41:58I just think right now the investment in that guy
42:00has been pretty big.
42:01He's not making a ton of money, you know,
42:03but he's been an important player for them
42:06these last couple of years.
42:07One that they've really been grooming for a purpose
42:10and now redefining that purpose
42:13or is it just gonna be he's one of our hybrid guys
42:16where he's a left shot
42:17where most of the hybrid guys have been right shots.
42:20And so maybe that's just the way
42:22they're gonna keep looking at him
42:23as being a guy that they can do different things with.
42:26And so I'm curious about that.
42:28I also wanna see if Zdorov saw that in a bag of chips.
42:31Yeah, I think so.
42:33Yeah, that one's gonna be interesting
42:34and I do think the Bruins fans are gonna love him
42:36just based on the way he plays.
42:38It'll be interesting to see how he slots in.
42:40Is he ready to be a guy that could play with McAvoy
42:43and play those kinds of minutes
42:45and that kind of responsibility
42:46against the other team's best players
42:47if that's indeed a pairing that they're looking at.
42:49So he's gonna be a key figure, I think,
42:52to take a look at in camp, during the regular season,
42:55certainly during the playoffs
42:56when they expect him to make a big impact.
42:59But I think in general, just the physical way he plays,
43:01the massive size,
43:02like the ruthlessness in the D zone around the net,
43:06like Bruins fans are gonna absolutely eat that up.
43:08One thing to circle back on,
43:10Riley Duran's mom's name is Lori.
43:13I don't wanna call her Riley's mom.
43:15She's a great hockey mom.
43:16I've known her for a long time.
43:18So I just wanted to make sure that that was out there.
43:20Lori and Jim, Riley's parents,
43:22I've known them for a long time.
43:23Great Woburn people.
43:26Of course, Jimmy's been the Woburn high hockey coach
43:28for a long, long time.
43:29So one thing we're gonna get to,
43:32either one of you guys wanna grab this one question
43:34or tweet of the week, question of the week
43:36from one of our followers here,
43:39atthemcringle on Twitter says,
43:41this should put the GM on the hot seat.
43:43He completely gambles one of the best goalie duos
43:45and does it before locking up Swayman.
43:47I get he is probably in love with the next Taige Thompson.
43:51And of course, I think they're talking about Dean Letourneau,
43:53the first round pick that they took there
43:55that's going to BC,
43:57that they got in the Allmark trade,
43:58but the risk reward alone is crazy,
44:00let alone trading Allmark within the division.
44:04Either of you have any thoughts on that?
44:06I would just say that being around in Buffalo,
44:13the rink is full of NHL people,
44:15scouts, assistant GMs, GMs.
44:20More than once up there,
44:23people said to me,
44:24geez, how do the Bruins do it year after year?
44:27Donnie does a good job.
44:29He does a good job.
44:31You look at their roster,
44:32you look at their prospects or success,
44:35or suspects that they brought to Buffalo.
44:40Year after year,
44:42yeah, there's pressure on him for sure.
44:44You can second guess.
44:46Obviously, that's the job.
44:47You can second guess what he does.
44:49But overall, it's a pretty strong body of work,
44:54I would say, for him in the last few years.
44:58How many teams do you average 50 wins a year?
45:01Yeah, yeah.
45:03Since he replaced Julian with Cassidy,
45:06they have averaged 50 wins a year.
45:09That's unbelievable.
45:10Who does that?
45:11Scotty Bowman Canadians?
45:13They lose two Bruins Hall of Fame centers in the same year.
45:20They don't skip a beat.
45:23Second guess Donnie if you want,
45:24but I don't know.
45:26I think the record speaks for itself.
45:29You can say, well, they should have won a cup or two.
45:31Yeah, that's fair.
45:33Besides that, the record's pretty good.
45:36I think they got screwed by COVID.
45:41I don't think that team was ready.
45:43McEvoy was awfully young.
45:44Char was awfully old.
45:48They had a golden opportunity in 19.
45:49They were ready.
45:50They just couldn't get the deal done.
45:53I'm not going to give them a mulligan on 2019
45:55when all the number one seeds were out in the first round
45:58and the frigging Red Sea Party for them to win.
46:00They just couldn't win the cup as young as McEvoy in that position
46:06or as old as Char in that position.
46:09Hold on.
46:11They could have won in 2019.
46:14They should have won anyway,
46:16but they probably would have won and could have won in 2019
46:19if they hadn't completely butchered the 2015 first round
46:23and they'd had another useful player,
46:25any of those useful players in the first round
46:27that they punted away and drafted Zach's initial.
46:31So it's on them for not winning the 2019.
46:34It's on the players.
46:35It's on the front office.
46:36That 2015 draft killed them when they had to start,
46:40what's his name, at wing and wouldn't play David Bacchus, Carson Coleman.
46:45They had to play frigging Carson Coleman in game seven of a Stanley Cup final game
46:49and they didn't even want to play.
46:51Cassidy wouldn't even play David Bacchus in that game
46:54against St. Louis, for God's sake, his old team.
46:57Like they had to do all that
46:58because they hadn't drafted a winger that was good enough to play
47:02when they had a ton of them that they could have in 2015.
47:05These are all fan pain reasons.
47:07No, to me, that's facts.
47:08They weren't mature enough as a hockey team
47:11and they got beat by a more physical club.
47:13No, that's...
47:14And the fight goes seven games, the more physical team wins.
47:17How many Hall of Fame players did they have on that team, Mick?
47:21That is bull crap.
47:22I'm sorry, but that is not...
47:232011.
47:25What did Pasternak do at the end of the first period of game seven?
47:29They probably had four...
47:30They had at least four Hall of Famers on that 2019 team.
47:34Bull crap.
47:34I don't buy that at all.
47:36They should have won that game.
47:37Is Pasternak one of them?
47:38Yes.
47:39Pasternak, Marcian, Bergeron, all Hall of Famers.
47:42Well, OK.
47:43So the goal that broke their back in game seven,
47:46Pasternak had the puck below the St. Louis goal line
47:50with 18 seconds left in the period.
47:52Bergeron was covered in the high slot.
47:54Marcian was gassed and going for a change.
47:56Pasternak throws a Hail Mary to the high slot.
48:00That broke the game.
48:02That's a rookie mistake by a guy who'd been in the league a few years.
48:05Yeah, but people make mistakes all the time, Mick.
48:07He's going to become a Hall of Famer.
48:09It's not about one play.
48:11He's going to become a Hall of Famer.
48:13No, I'm telling...
48:13Well, that's been my argument.
48:14You're making mine.
48:15Yeah.
48:16It's not about one play.
48:16I realize this thing will go five more hours if we keep going here.
48:19But...
48:20It isn't.
48:21The Bruins were the Canucks and the Blues were the Bruins.
48:24That part I agree with.
48:25But they could have won.
48:27They were this close to winning.
48:29And the margin in my eyes, and I think in a lot of people's eyes,
48:33and I think you can't debate this.
48:35The margin was having another...
48:37The margin was you had to play somebody like Carson Coleman in a top nine situation
48:41in game seven of the Stanley Cup Finals.
48:43A guy that shouldn't have even been in the lineup
48:45because your free agent guy that you signed was mostly a bust in David Backus.
48:50And because you whiffed completely on Zach Sinichan
48:54on a first round pick that you reached for.
48:56When you had all of these first round picks,
48:58you could have taken all of his talent in that draft that you missed on
49:02to take that guy instead.
49:03They screwed up.
49:04And that cost them at a big moment in 2019 getting their second Stanley Cup.
49:09It's really hard to argue against that.
49:11Like it's...
49:11It's not a Stanley Cup team.
49:13They were big overachievers.
49:14Yeah.
49:15No, it opened up for them.
49:16And they couldn't take over.
49:18Yeah. Was it an opportunity missed?
49:20Absolutely.
49:21Huge.
49:21I understand that.
49:22And I get the aftermath of that.
49:24That that's lingering in this generation.
49:27That was a missed opportunity.
49:29But to me, the reason I brought it up to begin with was
49:32I felt like the 19-20 team was on track.
49:34I felt like that team coming back with 10 games left and a President's Trophy in their pocket
49:40and being told, okay, you can't play.
49:43And then being told three months later, a full offseason later,
49:48probably two weeks more than a full offseason later.
49:50Oh, come back here.
49:51We're going to decide the Stanley Cup.
49:53Had nothing to do with that.
49:55That tournament was a joke.
49:56It was a travesty.
49:58The Stanley Cup should never have been awarded for a bubble hockey tournament.
50:01Yeah.
50:01You know, Trey played at the end of the summer.
50:04Yeah.
50:05So that was stupidity.
50:07Some people want to put asterisks next to the Tampa Bay Lightning Stanley Cup wins
50:11because of all that stuff.
50:12Well, I'm only 21 is different.
50:14And I don't begrudge the Kucharoff, the LTIR.
50:16Everybody's got the same roles.
50:18Yeah.
50:18And I think they would have won anyway.
50:20They were clearly the best team.
50:21I agree.
50:22And but in 20, Hedman was hurt.
50:28Yep.
50:29They should not have been allowed to play him when the bubble was over.
50:33Yeah, I mean, that's a good point.
50:35But like, bottom line is circling back to what Mark was saying,
50:38like, even though I squarely blame them, the front office and the 2015 draft
50:45for not being able to get over the finish line in 2019 when that opportunity presented.
50:49Even with a few years to mitigate it.
50:52What's that?
50:54That's the point, Mick, is they signed back as they brought in guys like Carson Coleman.
50:58That clearly did not mitigate like what they did.
51:01But that's like that was the very beginning of this front office's
51:05sort of like time running the team.
51:06And they were growing pains.
51:07There were learning moments like all that stuff.
51:09I think they've grown tremendously.
51:11I know it's been it's been it's been a dog's teeth on their ankle.
51:13I know that.
51:14Let me finish my thought, please.
51:17They've grown tremendously since that point.
51:20Like and to Mark's point, they've become perennial contenders.
51:24They haven't been able to really advance like they want to in the playoffs.
51:27And that's the trick now and the challenge now for them.
51:30And part of the reason I think they're getting bigger and more physical,
51:32which is the right way to go.
51:33But like, they've made a lot of great decisions.
51:35They've like made use of the players that they've had.
51:38They've done without first round picks on in a lot of instances.
51:42They've made great decisions within free agency.
51:44They've made outstanding trades at the deadline.
51:46Like they are in a great place management wise.
51:49I don't think Don Sweeney should be on the hot seat in any way, shape or form at this point,
51:53because I think they've matured into one of the best management groups in the NHL.
51:56And everybody around the league knows that.
51:58And like as much as fans want to like put people in the hot seat and fire everybody from their jobs,
52:03they don't know what they're talking about in this instance,
52:06because the Bruins have a very good group that's running them.
52:09Now, Mick, what were you going to say?
52:12You've kind of changed my mind on what I'd like to say at this point,
52:14because I agree with everything you just said.
52:18I've been saying the same thing.
52:20I think that I've written several columns in the last year saying that,
52:24there's so much, everybody's looking for a black cloud inside the silver lining.
52:28And this is a great time to be a Bruins fan.
52:34And it's even better now that you bring in a big defenseman and a linchpin center
52:40to restore your strength down the middle.
52:43So help me, Harry Sinden.
52:45And this team is ready to make the big push.
52:51So the Swainman asterisk notwithstanding, this team's a contender now.
52:56I think the ceiling's off.
52:58Yeah, I agree.
52:59And it's going to be a fantastic and interesting training camp to watch,
53:03because I think the potential is very high.
53:05The ceiling is very high for this team.
53:07And even in the playoffs, given the pieces that they've brought in,
53:09they're starting to build more for the playoffs than the regular season,
53:12which I think is going to help them as well.
53:14And going to be really fascinating to watch.
53:16All right, Mick and Mark, thank you very much for joining us.
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53:51What time is it?
53:52GameTime.
53:53Mark, Mick, thank you very much for joining us today.
53:56Pleasure.
53:57Appreciate you, Mark.
53:58Anytime, Joe.
53:59Take it easy, guys.
54:00Anybody else out there?
54:01Thanks for listening.
54:02We'll see you at the ring.