• 2 months ago
Evan Marinofsky and Joe Haggerty discuss a variety of Bruins preseason topics, including Jonathan Marchessault's comments on Bruce Cassidy. Could the Bruins have won more with Cassidy? Their conversation then turns to rookies to watch in training camp and when the Jeremy Swayman contract could get done.


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00:00Bruins beat is brought to you by price picks and the game time app and welcome into the
00:06Bruins beat presented by prize picks. Go use that promo code at C L N S uh, to get $50
00:13back when you play just $5 and represented by game time. Go use that promo code CLNS
00:19to get $20 off that first purchase terms apply. I am Evan Marinovsky. That is Joe Haggerty
00:24hags. What is that? How you doing Evan? I am great. I am great. We're recording this
00:30Friday afternoon, which means you and I are going to spend the next two days probably
00:35in a hockey rink. Uh, I'll be the next couple of hours. I'll be at a McVann, whatever the
00:42hell it's called in puberty. The, the rank of David. That's great. I will be at a, I'll
00:47be at level all day Saturday. Oh, beautiful. She's a good rank. I mean, people who don't
00:52know they have great food. They got a bowling alley. They have a bowling alley. They have
00:57a golf simulator. Yes. They got two golf simulators. Oh, I didn't know they had two. They've got
01:03two. I got two. That's all that matters. That's a tremendous facility. Tremendous facility.
01:09Um, obviously a lot we can discuss with the Bruins training camp is next week. We'll get
01:14into some of the rookies in a bit. Um, but I found this comment interesting and you're
01:18kind of the perfect person to talk to on this. Uh, cause you covered Bruce Cassidy
01:22extensively for all of his years here. Um, Jonathan Marsha. So it was on the cam and
01:27strict podcast a couple of days ago. Uh, and he was asked about casting. Obviously Marsha.
01:32So want a cup with Cassidy now just signed with the Nashville Predators. So they figured,
01:36all right, this is the best time to ask him about the lightning rod that can be Bruce
01:40Cassidy. Uh, and Jonathan Marsha. So I said, quote, there are guys that didn't like him
01:45too. He says it openly. I couldn't care less if you like me or not. At first, me and him
01:50would motherfuck a couple of times in a year yelling like, fuck you. And you're not right.
01:56He would tell me, uh, that I can endure it. And that's why we would go at it. He would
02:00use it to fuel the team. The team said that when he did stuff like that, we always responded.
02:05Well, he will always have my respect because I won with the guy. So I believe the way he
02:09runs things, he ran it the right way because we won. What do you say after, what do you
02:13want to say after a season? We had our meetings with our GM after the season we won. And what
02:18do you want to say? We want, you can't say anything. Right. So interesting comments from
02:23him on Cassidy. And I, I think we'll, I didn't realize Marcia. So it was like, have the attitude
02:30that he does. He's got a little, uh, he's got a little a-hole for sure, which is great.
02:35I love it. It must've been great for the other guys on the team. When Marsha sewn Cassidy
02:39would start screaming at each other, like a couple of times a year. It's like that couple
02:43that you know, that they they've been together forever, but every now and again, they get
02:46in like an explosive toxic fight and you're like, how do they stay together? But they
02:50make it work. I'm not my, it's not my cup of tea, but some can do it. Uh, with this
02:56though, I think this sparks a lot of questions. You know, obviously Bruce Cassidy did five
03:00years here, uh, won a lot and the regular season got within a game of winning the Stanley
03:05cup. Obviously when he got fired, everybody kind of went, you know, what's the deal here
03:09as the months went on, we sort of learned more and more that guys were sick of them.
03:13And the question to you is like, do you think the Bruins had more to win with Bruce Cassidy
03:18than you know, than they did in those five years? No, because the time to win was 2019
03:25and they couldn't do it. Like, you know, that was that if they were going to win, that was
03:29when they were going to win, uh, is, you know, take care of business in that game. Um, and
03:35secure the legacies of Bergeron char, like all those guys with the second cup, um, Marshawn,
03:42that was, you know, if it was going to happen for Bruce Cassidy and the Bruins, that would
03:46have been the time. And, uh, they came up short and, you know, but it's like equal parts,
03:52you know what I mean? Like it's certainly not all on Bruce Cassidy. Um, and I don't
03:57think anybody's ever said that. Certainly. I don't think the Bruins feel that way. Um,
04:02but it's, you know, it wasn't all on the players either. Like Bruce Cassidy went with, uh, what's
04:07his name instead of David Bacchus in game seven. I can't remember the kid's name anymore.
04:10Carson Kuhlman. Thank you. Carson Kuhlman, like scrappy, uh, scrappy do Carson Kuhlman,
04:16um, went with him in game seven of the Stanley cup finals, instead of a guy that was like an
04:21all-star player, like a veteran guy that never won a cup. And you were probably going to get
04:26every last bit of everything you had in that game, uh, in a one game situation. And he hadn't
04:32played for a couple of games too. So his tank was probably full against his former team at that
04:37point. Yes. And like that, that's one of those ones where it's like, all right, dude, that's
04:42not that you, I don't think you made the right decision there. Um, so like, I think there's a
04:48little bit of, of both things, um, going on, but like, you can't, I just don't think the Bruins
04:55were built necessarily to, you know, be Stanley cup winners under Bruce Cassidy with the teams
05:01that they had, like, they were good, regular season teams and they had a chance to win when
05:05like the red sea parted and like everybody all the time, one seeds went out in the first round
05:12and like, they were able to march through everybody and get to a St. Louis team.
05:15They were favored over that. Nobody really thought they were going to win.
05:19And they had, you know, the course reversed where St. Louis played like Vancouver, um,
05:25St. Louis played like the Bruins did in 2011 and the Bruins played like Vancouver did in 2011. In
05:30that series, it was like the roles were reversed and they lost. And, you know, I, I think it was
05:37about the personnel much more than it was about Bruce Cassidy during his stint there. But I also
05:42think, you know, just from what March or so is saying and what, from other people that I've
05:46talked to have said, and what you heard as things were going down. And I even heard rumblings. I
05:50had people asking me that last year under Bruce Cassidy, if I thought, and I didn't see it every
05:57day, but I had people asking me, don't you think the players are getting tired of it? Don't you
06:01feel like there's like a mutiny coming or something? Like I literally had people asking me
06:04that, not people around Boston, but people in other spots around the NHL who were tapped in
06:11and where people were talking from within the Bruins room, talking to them, um, that there was
06:16a lot of, when Cassidy was here still, there was a lot of unrest and unhappiness. And I had people
06:22like sort of presenting that to me. And I was like, I've definitely heard some people aren't
06:26happy here. And obviously, you know, Jake DeBrusque had voiced publicly that he wasn't
06:30happy and wanted to get traded. Um, but I didn't realize until after he wasn't brought back how
06:36deep seated it was. Um, and that I think they really had had enough at that point. And I just
06:42think his style and him being that way that he is, it's a, there's an expiration date on that as a
06:48coach. Like you can only do that for so long before it wears thin and the players are like, F you,
06:53I'm not playing for you anymore. And you know, they've had enough and they kind of check out,
06:57especially if you're like tweaking guys to motivate the rest of the team. Like if you've
07:02got whipping boys that you're like going after to get everybody else fired up, like there's only so
07:06many times you can do that before everybody's just like, you know, what's, what's this guy's
07:10deal. You know, like I can, I completely agree. And I think the only times that a coach like that
07:14can last a long time, I think those days might be over. I mean, you think about like Scotty Bowman
07:20with the Canadians when they're winning all the time, it's like, well, the guy keeps winning
07:24Stanley cups. Like we can't let him go. I mean, even if you guys still play for him,
07:29if which wins another cup with Vegas, like he might start entering that territory where it'd
07:34be hard to get rid of him. But even yes, even then in this day and age to your point, I think
07:39that still is your, your, you know, your risking danger. If you like continually coach that way.
07:45Yeah. And I think, you know, you see it less and less. I mean, you see a lot of the new school
07:49coaches coming up, have a completely different mindset in, you know, I mean, you know, you see
07:53what the Patriots right now, I know it's football, but you're on Mayo, you know, being friendly with
07:56the players and motivating them through, you know, encouragement. And I think it's an interesting
08:02thing. And that's a big reason. I think why they brought Montgomery in was sort of to be that,
08:06you know, players coach, friendly guy, um, demeanor. And I think a lot of, you know,
08:11you see a lot of fans say, Oh, if they just kept Bruce Cassidy, if they just listened to Bruce
08:15Cassidy and let Jake DeBrusco or so-and-so go, and there might be some truth to it for sure.
08:21But I'm, I agree with you. I also think that it ran its course. And I think when you coach like
08:26that, you do only get a couple shots. They had their big one in 2019. They just missed. And I
08:33think that sort of plays into it where it's like, you know, was crazy coming back. If, if, uh, if
08:38Bruce Cassidy coached again in 22, 23, probably not, you know, like, so I think there's a lot
08:45of things and you can argue with me that, Hey, they didn't even want to cup anyway. So like,
08:49doesn't matter, but I still think, you know, I think as you said, um, it ran thin with,
08:55with Cassidy here. And I think he's a winner. He's a winning coach. He's proved that
08:59here. And in Vegas doesn't mean he's a bad coach. I just think he is one of those guys who,
09:04you know, comes in to shake things up, but I don't know if the shelf life is very long with that.
09:10Yeah. I mean, I think he's got a certain style, right? That that's the way he's going to coach.
09:14And in March or so sort of alluded to that and like, that's who he is. And he's like,
09:18I'm not going to be a friend. Like, I don't care if you like me, like, I'm just going to
09:21come in and do my thing. And I think he's got enough confidence that he's done that over the
09:26years and had success that like, he's firmly entrenched in that, you know, and, and that's
09:29just, and it works. Yeah. And that's just, that's just his style. Like he's not trying to be a hard
09:34ass. He's not trying to do anything. Like he's got his way of doing things in his style that
09:39he's brought in and they have to sort of get used to that. But I do think, um, there's a time where
09:46it just doesn't, uh, it doesn't ring as, as clearly as it does when, you know, especially
09:51if you are in need of that kind of voice, that kind of demeanor, that kind of coaching style,
09:56like there are some teams that need that kick in the ass and then, you know, maybe they have
10:01success, but then like, it runs a cycle where you need the kick in the ass, you have success,
10:06you get to a certain point, let's say you win a cup like that. Then a few years after you've won,
10:11you're like, all right, I'm tired of getting a kick in the ass. I don't need that anymore.
10:15Like, I'm good. Like kind of like Marcio was saying, like, what are they going to say to us
10:18in the meetings after we won? You can't say anything, you know, like you start to get to
10:22that attitude after you want a cup, like you don't need to hear it anymore. And you don't need to,
10:26you don't need that voice and that kick anymore. And like, why, why am I listening to you?
10:31And maybe that happened to a degree in Boston with some of those players too,
10:35where like they had won previously. So they didn't feel like they needed that anymore.
10:40When some of the players probably did need that. And, and, and that's, you know, part of the
10:46sort of back and forth with like the Cassidy style and the Jim Montgomery style. Like if the Bruins
10:52been benefited in the playoffs the last couple of years from having a players coach that, you know,
10:57never a disparaging word is really said about the players and, you know, everything's in house and
11:02he's not really as critical. And like he did challenge them more last year for sure. Once
11:07Bergeron and Cratey had retired and it was a little bit of a different tone from Jim Montgomery
11:10and a little bit more of a taskmaster. But like, he's not going to completely change his style.
11:17I think he's always going to be a players coach to a large degree and that's who he is. And to
11:21his credit, you know, I think he's just a guy that enjoys being a coach, enjoys being with the
11:26players, like wants to keep it sort of light and keep it, you know, fun and, and keep the guys
11:32engaged and like has a positive outlook and spin on everything. You know, he's just one of those
11:36guys that's very optimistic. But does that, you know, do players take advantage of that after a
11:41while? Does that also wear thin and is that something that at a certain point it's just
11:45not effective anymore and you need to go back to somebody that's a little bit more of a hard
11:50driving like coach? It's, I will say this, I think it's really hard for a coach to try to be
11:56something they're not. Like if you're a players coach and you feel like they need a hard ass,
12:00I think it's really difficult to just flip the dial 180 degrees and all of a sudden become that,
12:05try to become that guy. I think that can be really hard and vice versa too. It's probably
12:09really hard if you're Bruce Cassidy, if you tried to become a players coach that was all like
12:13up and lovey dovey, I don't think that would work either. But like, I, you know, I heard certain
12:19things like about Cassidy, great guy, great coach, very effective, extremely smart and cerebral,
12:25like super smart, like really understands hockey systems, like how to diagnose things,
12:32how to fix things, like all that stuff. His practices were excellent, but I did hear things
12:39about him and the way he treated veteran players that turned players off. You know, like he would
12:45do certain things and you're like, why did he do that to him? You know, and he felt like it really
12:50didn't ring true with a lot of those guys. He started losing them when he was taking like
12:54highly respected veterans and kind of dressing them down. So, you know, you kind of have to pick
13:00your spots with that stuff. And I think for Bruce, I would guess it was a learning experience
13:05for him where he used what he learned in Boston, that what worked, what didn't work. And he went
13:10to Vegas and he fine-tuned it even more and turned it into them becoming Stanley cup champs. Like,
13:15I think he's learned from every stop that he's had, good, bad, or indifferent. And he's learned
13:20from like the good, the positives and the negatives from those experiences. And he certainly did it
13:24when he was in Washington as one of the youngest coaches in the history of the NHL. And then,
13:28you know, went back to the HL for a long time and he used all that stuff when he went to Boston.
13:32And I think he used certain things with the Bruins when he got to Vegas to really, you know,
13:36help fine-tune what he was doing there and realize he's got to pick his spots and pick who he's doing
13:41it with too. Like certain players, I think you can, like Marchessault said, I can take it. You
13:45know, certain players can take that treatment and that sort of abuse to a degree and other players,
13:51you can't and you shouldn't go there at all. And as a coach, definitely part of your job to know
13:56which guys you can do that with and which guys you can't. Well, I found it interesting reading
14:01about when he first took that Vegas job meeting with Jack Eichel in the Cape and working with
14:07him. And I found that interesting. And I think, you know, the thing with Cassidy was always,
14:11you know, he presents himself as a really friendly guy to the media, to fans. He's very good on
14:17camera. We've talked about this before at length. Like, and I think it kind of takes people by
14:23surprise when it's like, oh, he's like a hard ass. Like you almost, they don't usually with
14:28the hard asses or the hard asses with the media too. It just runs, runs between, but he's very
14:33good at flipping it on and off. So. I remember doing a podcast, Evan. This is back when I was
14:41NBC Sports Boston and I was doing a podcast. That's where I was born. Pretty much. Like you
14:46were in diapers at this point. It's back when I was NBC Sports Boston. I believe this was a great
14:51American hockey show podcast that I did for a while. I'm sure there was no evidence of it in
14:55the web, on the web, anywhere anymore. Like when we changed platforms, pretty much everything I
14:59did for NBC Sports Boston frigging disappeared. Oh, it's crazy. No, it's just, it's the online
15:07phenomenon. When you write for an online entity, if they like change platforms and don't archive,
15:11it's frigging gone. Like you'll never see it. Oh yeah. That's right. Yeah. It happens everywhere.
15:17Um, cause they don't care, right? Like when they're changing platforms, they just want all
15:22the bells and whistles. They don't care about actually saving stuff that was on their site,
15:25like five or six years ago that everybody like that was a great story. Um, but anyway,
15:30so it was a great American hockey show podcast. And I remember, I'll never forget. I had Colby
15:34Cohen on, uh, you know, him played at BU. Now he does a college hockey, uh, color commentary
15:40does like the frozen four. It does a ton of stuff like that. Uh, great guy, great media guy. I like
15:45him a lot. And he played in the Bruins system. So he played in Providence for Bruce Cassidy. And
15:49this was back when Claude was still the coach. And I remembered asking him if he thought Bruce
15:55Cassidy was ever going to be an NHL coach. I asked him the question and you could tell Colby Cohen
16:01and Bruce Cassidy did not like by his answer when he was like, yeah, no, he'll never coach in the NHL.
16:07Like Colby Cohen just like trashed him, like hammered him. And it was clear that he, he had
16:12some, he had some axes to grind and he had some, like, you know, he had, there was something
16:17personal there. I felt like, um, where he probably, you know, chose him as one of the guys that he went
16:22after when, uh, when he was playing for him. Um, but, but like you, you, you get a sodium
16:28pentothal and some of the players that have played for Bruce Cassidy and all of a sudden
16:32stuff will start coming out of them where you're like, okay, he, he must say some stuff when like
16:37during practicing in the room that they just do not like, he's not afraid to go there.
16:42Well, I remember during that 2019 playoff run, I think it was Bates,
16:45Pataglia went on spit and chicklets and like ripped Cassidy, Washington people around here
16:51were like, what, what? And it was like, no, like it, there, there was that history. So
16:56that's interesting. I can imagine Cole. I can't imagine Colby and Butch would get along great
17:00just in terms they're both Colby's very, you know, speaks his mind outspoken guy.
17:04And I can imagine those two probably clashed quite a bit. Um,
17:08he was definitely mind about Cassidy that day. That's for damn sure.
17:11I would love to hear the audio of that. Honestly, I would, I think it'd be hilarious.
17:15Um, anyways, I want to get into some more brewing stuff, like current day brewing stuff.
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19:13run your game. Now back to the show. So rookie camp was this past week. Uh,
19:19the Bruins are obviously up in Buffalo now for the prospects challenge train camp
19:23begins this coming week. Um, in terms of rookies, we've talked a lot about guys like Fabian Lysel
19:29and Georgie Murkuloff. And we'll talk a lot more about them in coming days. Were there any rookie
19:34camp guys, guys on that roster, um, that you think that you're kind of watching this year?
19:40A little bit of intrigue. I have the roster right in front of me right here. I love it. There we go.
19:47Anybody who I think is going to play this year, like if there's,
19:51you're intrigued by, you're curious to watch their development throughout the,
19:54I mean, and I watched the game. I watched the Friday game at noon against the penguins. Um,
20:01I think, uh, Farinacci, um, Riley Duran definitely. Um,
20:09Brett Harrison, I thought played really well, uh, in this game. Um, so maybe potentially him to,
20:16uh, I don't, I was not impressed with the defense, but I have not been impressed with
20:22the defenseman. I do not like Frederick Brunet really that much. I don't think he, I just, I've
20:30like when I've watched him at development camp, I I've seen him make a lot of mistakes and I haven't
20:34seen like the offensive defenseman skill level that everybody sort of talks about him having.
20:39I just haven't seen enough of it. And he makes a lot of defensive mistakes and a lot of mistakes
20:44with the puck. Um, Ryan mass, I've, I've really have never seen it with him either. He's a big
20:49body, but I have not seen him really, you know, in that game today, they, it felt like Brunet and
20:55mass were about pairing. And it felt like they were in their zone, like 70% of the game time
21:01when they were out there. And they're, and this is against like, you know, these are guys that
21:05have logged AHL time. Now they should be like dominant players. Like, like Farinacci was
21:10dominant player today. Riley Duran was dominant player today. I thought Brett Harrison was
21:14extremely good too. Like those guys should flash and should shine in this kind of a setting,
21:19um, against their peers and against younger players. And they did. I don't feel like you
21:24saw that from any of the defensemen and like, that's fine because the Bruins are stacked at
21:28defense at the NHL level anyway. So I don't know that they're necessarily going to need a ton of
21:33reinforcements, uh, from the AHL, but, but as far as the rookie camp guys go, I think Farinacci,
21:38uh, and Duran and, and Harrison probably stood out the most for me. And we'll probably be guys,
21:44especially Duran and Farinacci that I feel like if there's injuries up front,
21:48we'll see some of those guys. Uh, now all this should also include the fact that, um, Fabian
21:54Lysel and, and, um, Georgie Markolov were not at the rookie camp. They're not in the prospect
22:01showcase and they will start in regular NHL camp like everybody else. Uh, so they weren't there to
22:07kind of dominate this weekend and get a jumpstart on, uh, on competing for jobs when real training
22:13camp starts in the middle of next week. And you can, you know, you can go either way with the
22:17Bruins on that one. You can be critical of them, not letting, or not having Lysel and Markolov play.
22:23Maybe that would have been best for them. I mean, after all, I think Patra, Lowry, and Beecher all
22:28played in the rookie camp in the prospect showcase last year, and they were able to springboard that
22:33into great camps and then winning NHL jobs. Um, so that's one way to do it, but you know, for
22:39whatever reason, they didn't want them to get dinged up. They didn't want, they wanted them at,
22:42you know, full tank of gas to start camp next week, like whatever. Uh, they're not going to
22:47show up until, you know, Wednesday, Thursday next week. Um, but I still think Lysel, I think the
22:54Bruins want him to win that second line right wing spot with Charlie Coyle and Brad Marchand. I think
22:59they're trying to put him in the best position to succeed that they think they can do it.
23:03And it'll be interesting to watch him because I think that's the guy more than anybody else that
23:07I want to watch and see what he's got. Given a great situation and given a great opportunity,
23:12is he going to be able to seize it? Uh, show the explosive speed, show the skill level,
23:17show an ability to play a little bit more of a two-way game, you know, which he's going to have
23:20to play if he's playing in a top six role with Marchand and Coyle and going against other teams,
23:25really good players. Like he's going to have to be good all around, not just good offensively,
23:29but I'd like to at least start with seeing him showing some explosive dynamic,
23:34offensive stuff, um, to sort of sort of announce his presence with authority,
23:39Cartman style, you know, Evan, I'd like, I'd really like to see that from Fabian Lysel.
23:42That would be good. That would be, you're talking to Eric Cartman, right?
23:46That's right. I wanted to make sure I caught that correctly. Yes. Um,
23:49what are you talking about, Evan? Well, that's the thing I was like, is there,
23:53is an older reference? Cause I don't know if you ever saw, but there was a,
23:56an episode that a Diver made a Godfather reference. I kind of just laughed at it.
24:00And then people called me out in the comments being like, there's no way he got that reference
24:05and they're right. I've never, I've actually never seen the Godfathers, but now I've never
24:10seen the Godfather. So it's funny because my dad loves it and he would always watch it growing up,
24:16but I would always walk in the room like halfway through. And I'd be like, I can't,
24:20it's a movie I want to see from the start to finish. I don't want to see parts of,
24:23I want to see the whole thing. That is, but that is part of the reason you haven't watched it.
24:27Cause you feel like you've watched it, even though you haven't, cause your dad loved it.
24:30You feel like, you know, things about it. Right. Cause your dad loved the movies or whatever has
24:34talked about them before. Finn is like that with Star Wars. Like he like has no desire to see Star
24:39Wars. Like probably feels like he's seen it a zillion times already. Cause I've like watched
24:44it and you know, he's, he's seen it, uh, me watching bits and pieces of it and stuff like
24:48that. Of course, of course. Um, in terms of rookies though, I mean, I agree with you on Lysel
24:53and, and you know, I think he's the guy that seems like the road is open for him to take that second
24:59line right wing spot. Um, this is sort of his time to grab it. I think Patra should be at
25:05prospects challenge given the injury he had last year. I'd like to see him get some game action
25:10before preseason starts. I get why they're holding him out just in terms. He did have a lot of NHL
25:15time last year. And I, and I also understand he's coming off of, uh, you know, his injuries
25:20and his surgeries, but I would have liked to have seen him at the prospect challenge.
25:24I think that would have done him well. Um, and in terms of Riley Duran,
25:28Woburn guy, Lawrence Academy guy. Um, I also, I think he's a guy that I don't think he makes the
25:33team out of camp. Um, I just think that they're kind of set in the bottom six, but I do think
25:39that when injuries hit throughout the year, I think he's going to be a guy that you see
25:42yeah, definitely up in Boston. Um, I think Farinacci looks very good. Like I thought he
25:49looked great today. Like he really stood out to me along with Duran. I didn't get a chance to
25:53watch today's game. So, but, and I, and I think they also sort of explained that like Farinacci
26:00was great. The first half of last year was like the leading scorer on the team. And then he kind
26:03of fell off the table in the second half. And, uh, Ryan Muginell was kind of explaining that
26:07like that is very common for guys coming from the NCAA, whether you play like 30 games and
26:12only play on the weekends and all of a sudden to go to the HL grind where you're playing like,
26:16you know, 70 plus games, it becomes a much different animal. And you tend to like wear
26:21out in the second half of the year if you're coming from college. So I think we're going to
26:27see a lot even more from Farinacci than we did last year. And just judging by the way he played
26:31today, like he stood out to me, some of the plays he made highly, highly skilled, very smart plays,
26:37like he looks in to some degree, like an NHL play. He scored a goal today too. Um, yeah,
26:43but he's, uh, he's, I think he's a guy that we're going to see at some points this year for sure.
26:49Yeah. I think they, they do have those guys, uh, Duran Farinacci who can kind of fit in that
26:54bottom six. Then you hope baby and myself can sort of fit into that top six. Um, I want to
26:59get Jeremy Swayman. Cause that seems like that's the topic that everybody's wondering about talking
27:03about. Uh, but first quick word from our friends over at game time, fall is beginning, which means
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28:39What time is it? It's game time. Now back to the show. So Jeremy Swayman hags we've been talking
28:47about him and his contract situation since feels like forever. Yeah. Feels like we have been
28:53discussing this forever. Uh, it rolls on camp is, uh, you know, they get on the ice Thursday,
28:59it starts Wednesday. Um, there is time for it to still happen before camp technically. Um,
29:06where are you at with this stuff? The latest reports? What are you, what's your opinion
29:10on all of this? Uh, my opinion is he's probably going to miss some time. Uh, he's not going to
29:16be signed to the start of camp. It's probably going to go in a couple of days. Um, I continue
29:22to think he's not going to get eight years. He's not going to get like a maximum money deal. Like
29:27he's not going to get what he's looking for. Like I I've said this, uh, numerous times on
29:32the pucks with hags podcast. And I will now say it on the Bruins beat podcast that, um,
29:38Jeremy Swayman and the talk you hear is that he's looking for Charlie McAvoy money that he wants
29:44nine and a half million. Um, it is nonsensical to me that a goalie is saying, I want the number
29:49one defenseman money. I want defenseman money on any level. Uh, they're not comparables.
29:55Comparing one position to the other is not the way contract negotiations and contract
30:00discussions go. Um, but the reason he's saying I want the McAvoy deal is because there is no goalie
30:07where he can say it's a comparable to him and not sound outlandish. Like if he says,
30:11I want the Vasilevsky deal, people will laugh at him because like he is on no footing whatsoever
30:17to get paid like Andre Vasilevsky. Like there's, he's nowhere close to getting that kind of a
30:22contract. All the guys that are making the huge money deals, goalies, they already been number
30:28ones for like some time. And they'd already won Vesna trophies too. Like they'd already been a
30:33number one goalie and they'd already proven that they were the best goalie in the league, at least
30:36in a single season. Uh, before they got paid like that, Jeremy Swayman has never played more than
30:4044 games in a year. He had a very good month in the playoffs. He, uh, was an all-star and he got
30:45named to the all-star game last year. Like last year was a bit of a breakout year for him. He's
30:50never done it without Linus Elmark, a Vesna trophy winner, basically by his side. He has never been
30:56a number one guy where it's all on his shoulders. He has never had to deal with that kind of physical
31:00and mental grind. He has never proven that he can do it and maintain consistency. Like I believe in
31:05Jeremy Swayman. I think he's a number one guy. I think he's going to be the man in the, uh, in
31:10Boston between the pipes for the next 10 plus years. I think he's special. I I've been, I've
31:16thought that since the first time I saw him in, in NHL training camp with the Bruins. The first time
31:20I saw him in development camp for that matter, like he just stood out. And for me to notice a
31:25goalie like that during those kinds of camps, that says something because usually you really don't
31:30notice those guys that much. They all sort of blur together. Uh, but you notice his technique is
31:34athleticism, just the way he did things. So I believe in him and I think he's going to be a
31:39tremendous goalie for a long time and he will get that money at some point in the future, but I feel
31:44like it's going to go on for a little bit. I feel like there's going to be a bit of a holdout or
31:48he's not signed. And then I, I think they're going to end up doing some kind of a bridge contract
31:53because that's what they're going to have to do. And it's probably going to be, it's probably gonna
31:57be the most that anybody's ever gotten in his position. Like, uh, Soros was in his spot a few
32:02years back, not when he signed his recent deal where he's seven point whatever million on a huge
32:06money contract. But the contract he signed before that, he was pretty much in the same exact spot
32:11that's women's in now. And he got three years and 15 million. Maybe that becomes three years and 21
32:17million or something like that, or four years and 28 million. But I think it's going to be a,
32:22a bridge contract where he gets really good money. Um, more than the, what the spit and
32:27chicklets we're talking about with the four years, 6.2 or whatever. But I understand what the Bruins
32:31are thinking there. And I think the eventually Swayman's camp is going to have to come to that
32:36thinking too, where they're probably going to have to have some kind of a shorter term contract
32:40where he's still getting paid good money. And then he can really hit it. Um, you know, when he's 28,
32:4429 years old, after he's like done really well and proven that he's number one guy over the next
32:50three, four years, whatever the signs his contract for, but it's just unfortunate timing. Like he's
32:55not ready to be signed to that eight year deal. He hasn't proven it enough. And the Bruins would
32:59be foolish to give that to him. And I don't think they will because it would try to the
33:03half million per year too. That's the other part. Like it's, but again, yeah, Evan, you hear them
33:09saying he wants the McAvoy deal because if he, there is no comparable goalie, he could compare
33:14himself to, to say, I want that deal without seeming outlandish, without seeming crazy,
33:19without seeming like he's asking for way more than he's earned to this point. And I say that as a guy
33:25to a guy that's been really good and has done everything the Bruins have asked and deserves
33:29like good money, but like whatever he's asking for, if it's the McAvoy deal, like stop asking
33:36for defenseman money. Like you sound, it sounds like to people that know hockey and know negotiations,
33:43it sounds ridiculous. If you're a goalie and you say, I want the McAvoy contract, like you don't
33:47play defense. Like you're not a comparable to a defenseman. Like, tell me what goalie you want
33:51to get paid. Like, and then you can actually start a real like conversation. If you're saying
33:55that, it just sounds like fantasy land. Maybe he's talking about the McAvoy deal. He signed
33:59a couple of years back, the three year deal. Remember that as like three years, like 14
34:03million, I think maybe, maybe that's what he's talking about. I agree. So this is the thing,
34:10right? And this is why I think I've come off eight year deal too, because the more you hear,
34:15the more I think it is a three or four year deal because he has top five potential. Like no doubt.
34:21I think he is a phenomenal goaltender and I think he's going to be phenomenal.
34:25Yep. But the track record is not there yet. It just isn't to hand him nine and a half million
34:31or to hand him 10. I was fine with eight by eight throughout the off season. And I know you disagree
34:38with me on this. The biggest reason is that was like the max of I'll take the bet on this for
34:43eight years. Now I look at this and you know, given what reportedly his camp is looking for,
34:50you go above eight, that's when it starts to be like, all right, like even eight is a gamble,
34:55but more than that is crazy. And that's the problem. And I think that's why, as you said,
34:59it will be a three or four year deal where he gets, you know, 7 million, 7.25 million, because
35:06then that it, by the way, by the way, like I, you know, if we were to do like what he's worth,
35:10just based off what he's given seven range, like that's what he is worth.
35:16Yes. And you give them a little bit more
35:19to satisfy that and to try to ease things over. So when you go back to the negotiating table
35:23in three years that, you know, both sides are good. You're not going to lose him.
35:28No. And he'll get, he'll get his money the next time around. Like if he truly is as good as he
35:34thinks he is. And we all think he is that he's going to get even more money, like three, four
35:38years down the road when the cap goes up, as it continues to go up. And, you know, maybe at that
35:43point he gets to set the standard for like goalies and how much they get paid. If he like gets a
35:48trophy over the next few years, wins the Stanley cup, like does all the things he wants to do and
35:52believes he's capable of doing, then do it bet on yourself with this contract, do it. And then
35:57you'll get that huge deal when you're like, you know, 25, 28, 29, 30 years old and goalies can
36:04play a long time. So you could sign a seven or eight year deal at that age and be perfectly
36:08fine. And I'm sure the Bruins would show him that kind of money. If he was that kind of goalie,
36:12you know, three or four years from now. Yeah. I I'm in agreement with you. I think
36:15that's where they end up. I think they end up in that three to four year range. First way I'm in
36:19contract, but we'll see what happens. Anytime I'm away from my phone for more than like 20 minutes,
36:24I'm like, I'm going to pull my phone out and it will have broken 20 minutes ago.
36:28And I'll be behind, you know, whatever, what everyone else is saying. But Hags,
36:32what can the people look forward to from you? Lots of hockey reporting and good hockey talk
36:38over the next foreseeable future. Evan, I will be at ranks from here to Timbuktu over the next like
36:45five, six, seven months. And I will be writing at Boston Sports Journal three times a week. I will
36:51be on my sub stack, JoeHaggerty.substack.com and Pucks with Hags podcast, all of the above. You can
37:00hear, see, and read all of the good hockey stuff for the foreseeable future. So it's fun. We're
37:06right on the like sort of edge of the cliff and going over it right now with the hockey.
37:10You fall right off.
37:13My loved ones and not see them for a while.
37:15Yeah, exactly. You're a hundred percent right. Well, Hags, appreciate it as always. We will go
37:21enjoy our fun weekends in the ranks. That is Joe Haggerty. I'm Evan Maranovsky,
37:25listeners. Have a great rest of your week.

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