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00:00This is a new preview of this so-called Pandora's box from the audio case.
00:05And please look at this headline because it's going to catch your attention.
00:08It has to do with an encounter in prison, with Captain Jabber.
00:12Welcome to Jabber, Mr. Satan.
00:16Rodrigo Topperberg remembers his encounter in prison with Luis Hermosín.
00:20This is a media interview where Rodrigo Topperberg,
00:23so that it is understood well, who is Rodrigo Topperberg?
00:26This is the person to whom the famous audio came.
00:30And he leaked, going to buy a cell phone, anonymous,
00:35he leaked this audio that has generated so much controversy.
00:39And this that we describe here is the meeting when Luis Hermosilla,
00:44Luis Hermosilla arrives at Captain Jabber.
00:47Of course he meets with Rodrigo Topperberg,
00:49because he had been in preventive prison for a long time.
00:52Now he is under house arrest. Two days or a day later he left.
00:56But they met.
00:57But Francesco, we all imagined that moment.
01:00Remember that before the possibility, that is, there was a certain possibility
01:04that he would be in preventive prison
01:06and we analyzed who was in Captain Jabber's cells.
01:09If we already knew that the meetings were going to be complicated.
01:12And when they meet, Rodrigo comments,
01:15who is a businessman who feels betrayed.
01:20And so he says the following.
01:22Imagine something like this. He meets with Luis Hermosilla
01:25and he explains that he has to prepare,
01:28that his attitude has to reflect that they are not going to dominate him.
01:31I'm paraphrasing.
01:33Because he understands that Hermosilla is a great conversant, manipulator,
01:37he has a capacity that he does not know.
01:40Of course.
01:41So it's like he has to be firm, because he says,
01:43I put him in jail.
01:45He understands that because he filters the audio, he puts him in jail.
01:50That's how he reflects.
01:52He goes to jail with the audio.
01:54In fact, recognizing that he obtained the audio,
01:58is when he manages to get out of jail.
02:01As a collaboration.
02:02Exactly, boss.
02:03So he meets with Luis Hermosilla and says,
02:07Welcome, Mr. Satan.
02:10To which Luis Hermosilla does not react too shocked or much less.
02:17How is it going? And he tries to maintain a completely normal discussion.
02:21At that point he got nervous.
02:23He must have done a mental job.
02:25But it must be said that yesterday the appeal did not work.
02:29It did not work.
02:31He is still in preventive detention.
02:33The court said, no sir, despite all the allegations presented by Juan Pablo Hermosilla,
02:36also by the lawyer of Leonardo Villalobos,
02:39Puerto Corto is still in preventive detention.
02:41Just to be clear.
02:43But yesterday we were all expecting because,
02:45well, actually all this week.
02:47Because on Wednesday it was delivered by the prosecution
02:51of all the audios that Juan Pablo Hermosilla formally requested.
02:57In the WhatsApp transcript.
03:00Because it came out again, because it turns out that every day someone appears,
03:03even the minister.
03:04And it comes out, the dance came out.
03:05Let's talk about the minister.
03:07Not talking to Luis Hermosilla,
03:09but in a conversation of Luis Hermosilla with one of the Halaf brothers.
03:13Exactly.
03:14Well, the sport now is to say, I never talked to him.
03:17They are talking about another conversation, but I never talked to him.
03:20Well, that said, there is an interesting conversation that continues to expand
03:23throughout the days with respect to Luis Hermosilla,
03:27one of the questioned businessmen.
03:29Talking about who?
03:31The former Minister of the Interior, Andres Chadwick,
03:33personal friend of Luis Hermosilla.
03:35With whom he maintained this famous office.
03:37We have part of that detail.
03:39So that we can analyze it.
03:42Álvaro Halaf is this businessman.
03:45Luis Hermosilla, we know, the lawyer in question.
03:48And they talk.
03:49The following.
03:50Let's talk tomorrow.
03:51I have two important issues to tell you, says Luis Hermosilla.
03:54Good? Yes.
03:55Very good.
03:56I'm going to have ...
03:57Watch out for the irony.
03:58You have to try to interpret it.
04:00I'm going to have a card for the currency.
04:02They are talking about the campaign of the second government, Sebastián Piñera.
04:05How is my relationship with SP, Sebastián Piñera?
04:08Exactly, I tell him.
04:10He is telling a businessman that he is going to have a card for the currency.
04:13Watch out.
04:14Ha ha ha ha.
04:15I read you.
04:16You see, I learn from you.
04:17The best, says Halaf.
04:20In the background, here is what one can assume.
04:24What Luis Hermosilla is saying is,
04:27You're going to have to get the currency because I'm doing the deal with SP.
04:30Things are going as planned.
04:32I interpret something like this.
04:33Something like this.
04:34Claudio?
04:36Let's see.
04:37Are you digesting all the information?
04:39First observation.
04:40I don't have any chat with Luis Hermosilla.
04:42Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
04:43Of course.
04:44I don't either.
04:45Of course.
04:46Of course.
04:47I don't have any chat.
04:48What you see there is a familiarity in a conversation.
04:51And a conversation that comes from before and that will follow, most likely, after that.
04:55The question is that today the prosecution is opening several edges of this same investigation.
05:01And it has to start citing former State Ministers.
05:04The question I start asking is, in what quality are you going to cite them?
05:09In the quality of witnesses?
05:12Or in the quality of impeached?
05:14Because there have already been two impeached, two ministers.
05:18Chadwick and Ward.
05:20Of course.
05:21Of course.
05:22These two former ministers.
05:24Of course.
05:25Speaking of the management that Luis Hermosilla was doing.
05:28And former minister, Felipe Ward, former Minister of Housing, who at some point was, it is said,
05:33and Francesco knows it well, he was going to be Minister of the Interior, and at the last minute,
05:37there was an uproar for Rodrigo Delgado, I understand, at some point.
05:41Plummel, first.
05:43Was it Plummel?
05:44But it was Felipe, well, but Felipe Ward was going to be named Minister of the Interior.
05:48Exactly.
05:49But Minister of Housing, finally.
05:50And here basically all the conversations, Rebe, have to do, if they are always,
05:54between Hermosilla and this businessman or another, when they talk about politicians,
05:58they don't talk about how good this person is getting this position,
06:01but how good for us that this person is getting this position.
06:05It gives me the impression that all the conversations,
06:07I'm not saying that's why they are committing some crime,
06:10but it's in the tone, more or less, of the conversations.
06:12And the point here is that many former ministers are coming out to the dance,
06:17not only from the government of Sebastian Piñera, but also from the former president,
06:22Michelle Bachelet.
06:23Sure.
06:24And the question here is, all the conversations that are being recorded,
06:28these chats, were they recorded in the lobby law?
06:32That's the problem that today is opening up for the government.
06:35But notice that here the conversation, Claudio,
06:37look, if the conversation that we are seeing here,
06:42the conversation that we are having here,
06:43that also motivated a headline that you showed us, Francesco,
06:47is a conversation of a rooster that is telling you,
06:49calm down, I'm calling you the way, I'm going to open the door for you,
06:54I have the contacts, you know?
06:56It's like, it's not a formality, what you're saying,
07:00it's a conversation…
07:01Very familiar.
07:02Very familiar.
07:03Yes.
07:04They were both brothers.
07:05Hey, how do I go with the currency?
07:08I'm going to have a card?
07:09When I say I'm going to have a card,
07:11deep down I'm going to have access.
07:13It's like when you have the card here on the channel,
07:16you open the door and you can go to different places.
07:19I'm going to have a card?
07:20Yes.
07:21You calm down.
07:22I already have the path filled there with SP,
07:26that is, Esteban Piñera.
07:27They also use, at some point, the ACH,
07:31between Chadwick.
07:32That is, here there is a person who is doing,
07:37beyond being a lawyer, he's a lobbyist.
07:39Absolutely.
07:40He's a lobbyist.
07:41Yes, he's a lobbyist.
07:42He's a lobbyist.
07:43And he's with a businessman, telling him,
07:46you calm down, I'm going to give you access.
07:50That's what I understand here,
07:51there's a conversation between a lobbyist and…
07:53It's as it is.
07:54It's a bridge.
07:55And for them, I'm sorry,
07:56and for them, I just want to add something
07:58so that I can mention something else later.
08:00For them, it's very important,
08:01in this conversation at least,
08:02the figure of Andrés Chadwick permanently.
08:03But I want to tell you something,
08:04because we're going to keep talking about this,
08:06but simply so that we are clear
08:07about what may come with respect to these conversations.
08:09That Juan Pablo Hermosilla,
08:11brother of Luis Hermosilla and his lawyer,
08:13told us, even in an interview yesterday,
08:16that he has three levels to go
08:19giving account to the press and to Chile.
08:21This type of meeting is very important,
08:25because the government has already taken it
08:26as a warning or threat.
08:28We are talking about, he said,
08:32that there are prosecutors,
08:37prosecutors,
08:38who are the ones who investigate.
08:40Let's not get lost in that.
08:41Who investigate,
08:42just now, Luis Hermosilla and others.
08:44Prosecutors.
08:45Who make the decision of justice, right?
08:48Judges of the Republic.
08:50That is, the prosecutor investigates,
08:51the judge decides.
08:52Well, there are also prosecutors on the list.
08:54And to top it off,
08:56he says the word ministers.
08:59But deep down he is saying authorities,
09:02and that can be from any of the governments I mentioned.
09:04He corrected it a few times when I said ministers,
09:07that he refers to the Minister of the Supreme Court.
09:08Here there is also a Minister of the Supreme Court
09:10who is also super complicated with all this that has been leaked.
09:13It's super complicated.
09:15But there are evidently three levels.
09:20Justice,
09:22Public Ministry,
09:24Authorities.
09:25Those are the three, let's say, big groups
09:28that Juan Pablo Hermosilla says,
09:30we are going to look at them carefully.
09:31What Juan Pablo Hermosilla is saying is,
09:33there is public interest there,
09:35committed,
09:36and therefore,
09:37I can reveal those chats,
09:39because eventually
09:40there could be a crime commission,
09:42eventually there could be an infraction of the lobby law, etc.
09:45The question here is,
09:47that, for example,
09:48let's go by level.
09:49The prosecution.
09:51Who had all the information from the chats?
09:53Until today.
09:54In addition to the lawyer,
09:55who I think did have it and always had it.
09:57Who had it?
09:58The prosecution.
09:59Who started to leak?
10:00Who do you believe?
10:01The prosecution.
10:02The prosecution.
10:04The question is,
10:05the prosecution
10:06of the interior is,
10:08and what Juan Pablo Hermosilla has claimed,
10:10they are doing it with a certain criterion,
10:12with a certain selectivity.
10:14Juan Pablo Hermosilla himself defended Lorena Parra.
10:17He said,
10:18because they are harming the investigation of the prosecutor.
10:23What internal noise does the prosecution have today
10:26so that they themselves are harming their investigation?
10:29Yes, but I have another question
10:31that you have asked me at this time.
10:33Because Juan Pablo Hermosilla also said,
10:36here they are leaking
10:38what they want to leak.
10:39Of course.
10:40It is a leaked leak.
10:41It is a selective leak.
10:44That is to say,
10:45because here we agree
10:47that Luis Hermosilla has said,
10:49it is super transversal
10:51from the point of view of his service as a lawyer.
10:55Without going any further,
10:57there is a video where Miguel Crispi comes out
10:59saying that indeed he,
11:02his lawyer,
11:03in the commission,
11:04in the camera,
11:05his lawyer is Luis Hermosilla
11:07because it is not arriving
11:08and accusing the chief advisor of La Moneda,
11:10as saying,
11:11be careful with whom I am defending.
11:13Or not?
11:14Yes.
11:15That is a record that is public and is known.
11:17Yes.
11:18Then I also wonder
11:19what is behind all this?
11:22Because Juan Pablo Hermosilla says,
11:24here he has been very selective.
11:26He is pointing to Chadwick,
11:28pointing to Piñera,
11:29pointing to here.
11:31Why is he being so selective?
11:33What about the other side?
11:34So who is Juan Pablo Hermosilla defending?
11:36His brother?
11:38I have the right to ask
11:39if he is also defending his brother.
11:41The suspicion.
11:42And let's clarify something that you say well, Repe.
11:45Luis Hermosilla is not finally
11:47a person who provides services
11:49to a sector of Chilean politics
11:51or a type of power,
11:53or judges,
11:54or prosecutors,
11:55or businessmen.
11:56He works with power.
11:57Complete.
11:58Complete.
11:59Wherever the power is,
12:00apparently it was Luis Hermosilla.
12:02If in a minute it was with President Piñera,
12:04if in a minute it was with Bachelet,
12:06with whoever.
12:07And that's why now, last,
12:09what I'm saying is like this,
12:11that the dance came out,
12:12what you said before,
12:13Minister Álvaro Elizalde.
12:16It already came out before Annali Uriarte.
12:18It is also true.
12:19It is also true.
12:20That it was, in fact,
12:21Elizalde's predecessor in the position she has now,
12:23who is the Secretary General of the Presidency.
12:25But what is the point here?
12:26Minister Elizalde had to make a press statement.
12:28Why is the currency so complicated?
12:30Because Minister Elizalde had to go out
12:32to tell us all over Chile
12:34that he never spoke for Luis Hermosilla.
12:37That he appeared in the conversation of others.
12:40But to go out and explain it,
12:42Repe Bri,
12:43is super complicated.
12:44It is that it is the port.
12:45There is always a cloak of doubt.
12:47It is that the problem, at the end of the day,
12:49is that everyone knows each other.
12:51Everyone is a friend of everyone.
12:53Everyone is a friend of everyone.
12:55The criminal process reform starts at the beginning of the 2000s.
12:58And therefore,
12:59everyone who started working at that time,
13:01I also worked at that time,
13:03we all know each other.
13:04From the beginning.
13:05Yes.
13:06And yes, there are many ...
13:07That has nothing wrong.
13:08It has nothing wrong.
13:09The point is that there are many accounts to be paid.
13:12There are many accounts to be paid on that path.
13:15So much so, Claudio,
13:16that the conversation for which Minister Elizalde appears
13:19has to do with the election of the national prosecutor
13:22three years ago, right?
13:23Ángel Valencia.
13:24Two and a half years ago.
13:25Ángel Valencia.
13:26And the minister who was a senator at that time
13:31was just deciding with his parents
13:34who was going to be this new national prosecutor.
13:36Sure.
13:37And then he has to explain to us that he,
13:40being a friend of Ángel Valencia,
13:42a law partner at the time,
13:44had to abstain and did not participate in that decision.
13:47As if to say, I have nothing to do with it.
13:48But he has to explain it again.
13:50Do you understand?
13:51Yes.
13:52You know that, look,
13:53seeing all this from the outside,
13:54because it is a real TV series,
13:58it surprises me,
13:59because many times we have said,
14:01look at the power that these people have.
14:03And the power that people have in general
14:06is based on the information they handle.
14:09And the information is power.
14:11It is power.
14:12And he has given samples,
14:13not only Luis Armosilla,
14:15also in this case Juan Pablo Armosilla, his lawyer.
14:18The information that Juan Pablo Armosilla handles is power.
14:22Because he also says,
14:23I'm going to classify,
14:25surely this I had before,
14:26but I had to make the official delivery
14:28of the public ministry with the transcription of the audios, right?
14:32I'm going to classify this information
14:35in judicial power, public ministry and authorities.
14:38But not only that.
14:40Yesterday, in this program,
14:43when we interviewed him there,
14:44way in the past,
14:45with the success of Gabriel Alegría,
14:47he said,
14:48I'm going to meet with media publishers.
14:52And you know what?
14:53I turned him around,
14:54I turned him around,
14:55because that's another thing.
14:56It's another thing.
14:57Because one thing is to have the information
14:59and another is the way of delivering the information.
15:01Of course, Pris.
15:02But let me finish.
15:03Sorry.
15:04Look what I have.
15:05I turned him around.
15:06I saw him in the morning and I came here.
15:07I said,
15:08He...
15:09I'm saying it from the outside,
15:11as I read it from the outside.
15:13He is giving the reason to Minister Luis Cordero.
15:17Because he said,
15:18what he didn't get in court,
15:20he wants to get it in the media.
15:24Because they are a tool.
15:26All the audios were uncovered in a media.
15:29It's a power.
15:30It's a power.
15:31It's a power.
15:33So it's a very broad strategy.
15:35But yesterday Juan Pablo was talking to Elgao.
15:37It was very clear.
15:38We asked him here.
15:39Yes, because...
15:40We have the wedge.
15:41Yes.
15:42In fact, I ask him,
15:43was the preventive prison a taste of the judge
15:45or did it come from politics?
15:47And he says,
15:48that it comes from politics.
15:49Yes.
15:50That it didn't go directly to Captain Jagger,
15:51but that it went through Santiago Uno.
15:53So,
15:54he is convinced that that was a taste
15:56that was given to someone.
15:58From politics,
15:59not from justice.
16:01So here,
16:02when he says,
16:03later,
16:04that he is going to meet with editors.
16:06Yes.
16:07Because it's different,
16:08what you say,
16:09because it's different if the guy says,
16:10you know what?
16:11Give me all the pages
16:12because every accusation
16:13that they make to my brother,
16:14I, in court,
16:15I already have a way to defend
16:17and counter-argument this.
16:19But he's not talking about
16:20that he's going to do it in court.
16:21He's talking about
16:22that he's going to meet with editors.
16:24To...
16:26According to him,
16:27he's not going to do the cherry-picking
16:28of doing it selectively.
16:31But he's also going to do it.
16:32I mean, he should.
16:33Let's be naïve.
16:34But wait, wait, wait.
16:35But it's also a challenge
16:37for the media,
16:38because what he said
16:39is that he was going to give
16:41a name, context,
16:43and there you see,
16:45and go ask for explanations
16:46why this person is there.
16:47And not only that,
16:48he said he was going to give
16:49the opportunity to that person
16:51to clarify,
16:53rectify,
16:54confirm,
16:55explain.
16:56Look, he has so much information
16:58that he has a lot of power
17:00to influence everyone.
17:02In the judicial power
17:03of the Ministry of Public Authorities
17:04and also in what they publish
17:05in the media.
17:06He's not going to filter,
17:07it seems,
17:08conversations with journalists,
17:09with businessmen.
17:10Ah, of course.
17:11Not that part.
17:12But wait,
17:13but it depends.
17:15I wouldn't be so sure.
17:17Well.
17:18Because if it comes out,
17:19I don't know,
17:20let's put it here.
17:21If a communicator comes out
17:23to say I don't know what,
17:24I don't know what,
17:25I don't know what,
17:26I assure you he's going to say,
17:27let's see.
17:28Did you ask for a favor too?
17:30Of course.
17:31Did you ask for a favor?
17:32Yes.
17:33I assure you.
17:34So he's not.
17:35I think those are the three
17:36because they are the most powerful,
17:37right?
17:38Let's see.
17:39Public Ministry,
17:40justice system,
17:41authorities.
17:42But be careful with the others
17:43because here there has to be people
17:44that at this minute,
17:45when Juan Pablo Hermosilla says
17:46I'm going to talk to media editors,
17:47there has to be a lot
17:48that at this minute
17:49are,
17:50I don't know what,
17:51I don't know what.
17:52But,
17:53but let's talk.
17:54Checking the WhatsApp.
17:55Please,
17:56you sincerely believe
17:57that when he warned
17:58I'm going to talk to media editors,
17:59he's going to start talking?
18:00He's already talking
18:01to media editors.
18:02He already has journalists
18:03with whom he has worked
18:04all his life.
18:05We agree.
18:06We agree.
18:07Yes.
18:08And we are also
18:09writing to him
18:10a while ago.
18:11Yes.
18:12And he gave time.
18:13As a journalist
18:14who is talking to me,
18:15obviously.
18:16That's super important
18:17what Repe said.
18:18He gave time.
18:19This question is not
18:20that he received it
18:21one day,
18:22here they are,
18:23take it.
18:24No, no, no.
18:25No.
18:26He is gaining time
18:27and is giving time
18:28to the people
18:29who need it.
18:30And he has in his hands
18:31this power.
18:32It is not only a weapon,
18:33it is a shield.
18:34That's what he's doing.
18:35And he warned,
18:36he warned
18:37just as he was
18:38talking to Gabo.
18:39He said,
18:40we're going to take
18:41two or three weeks
18:42to study
18:43the whole thing.
18:44That means
18:45he's giving time
18:46to those who need
18:47time to calm down
18:48or to do
18:49the actions
18:50they have to do.
18:51I don't know,
18:52I'm speculating here.
18:53No,
18:54I find you
18:55quite right.
18:56In fact,
18:57in practical terms,
18:58what could happen,
18:59Claudio,
19:00is that maybe
19:01we'll have prosecutors
19:02who will have to say
19:03they won't be able
19:04to investigate.
19:05That's right.
19:06Judges
19:07who will have to abstain
19:08from participating
19:09in some room
19:10if this case
19:11comes through
19:12some edge.
19:13That could happen,
19:14which is not
19:15a crime in itself,
19:16but it can be
19:17a disgrace.
19:18Because if your judge,
19:19for example,
19:20says,
19:21you know I can't
19:22participate in this
19:23because I had
19:24such a conversation,
19:25because Luis Almocilla
19:26had such a conversation
19:27with me.
19:28Then,
19:29a person comes out
19:30and says,
19:31no,
19:32I can't participate
19:33in this
19:34because the truth is
19:35that I...
19:36Inhabited.
19:37How are we going
19:38to read this?
19:39I insist,
19:40I haven't done
19:41anything bad,
19:42nothing criminal.
19:43But,
19:44Pacheco,
19:45what we're seeing
19:46every day
19:47is a coin wedge
19:48talking about this
19:49topic.
19:50From the first day.
19:51Either to say,
19:52there's nothing
19:53to be afraid of here,
19:54nothing to hide,
19:55it's fine,
19:56but it still forces you
19:57to come out
19:58and give explanations.
19:59Exactly.
20:00To talk about the topic
20:01since the president...
20:02Look,
20:03the important thing is...
20:04I think it's unanimous
20:05in all public opinions
20:06that the president
20:07was reckless.
20:08I'm going to use
20:09the word reckless,
20:10Juan Pablo Almocilla
20:11used other
20:12terms to say it.
20:13The recklessness
20:14of the president,
20:15look at what it has
20:16generated.
20:17Twice.
20:18The recklessness
20:19of the president...
20:20Because he emphasized it.
20:21Yesterday he repeated it again.
20:22Yes.
20:23Let's see,
20:24Juan Pablo Almocilla
20:25said the same thing.
20:26He said the same thing.
20:27Yes,
20:28it wasn't exactly
20:29who's right.
20:30No, no, no.
20:31It was much more measured.
20:32There were three.
20:33There were three.
20:34What did the president say?
20:35Let's see,
20:36what did the president say?
20:37The president,
20:38a few minutes later,
20:39you're going to read it,
20:40but for you to understand.
20:41The president,
20:42a few minutes after
20:43we found out
20:44that he was going
20:45to preventive prison
20:46Luis Hermosilla
20:47and at that minute
20:48to Santiago 1,
20:49he...
20:50For some,
20:51it's the right word.
20:52He celebrates,
20:53or at least he says it
20:54with a lot of enthusiasm,
20:55that a powerful man
20:57goes to jail.
20:59Of course, he says.
21:00Exactly.
21:01They sent a preventive prison
21:03to a man
21:04who thought he was all-powerful.
21:06But Repe is right,
21:07because when...
21:08He goes back to the point.
21:11They ask him again.
21:13This week
21:14he doesn't say
21:15exactly the same thing.
21:16But wait,
21:17I think it's important
21:18because he repeats later
21:19on another agenda.
21:21He says,
21:22Indeed, I said
21:23that a powerful man
21:24went to preventive prison
21:25and that he was fine
21:26because it was a sign
21:27that the institutions
21:28are the same,
21:29blah, blah, blah.
21:30But he says
21:31and clarifies
21:32that he
21:33is not going to follow
21:34the lead,
21:35quote,
21:36of the elite.
21:37The critics of the elite
21:38are not going
21:39to generate
21:40that I, president,
21:41say what I think.
21:42And there is a third statement,
21:44or another moment,
21:45in the background,
21:46in which it changes a little.
21:47Right, Repe?
21:48Here it is.
21:50I'm glad
21:51that a person
21:52who thought
21:53he was powerful
21:54faces justice
21:55like anyone else.
21:57He doesn't say
21:58a powerful man
21:59goes to preventive prison.
22:00He doesn't say
22:01that he thought he was.
22:02Yes.
22:03That's the difference.
22:04Yes, he softens it.
22:05Of course,
22:06he changes the tone
22:07because
22:08what is
22:09what he boasts
22:10and also,
22:11well,
22:12Juan Pablo Hermosilla
22:13went out to harshly
22:14criticize the president.
22:15He went out to harshly
22:16criticize
22:17Minister Toá.
22:18The justice minister.
22:19And the justice minister,
22:20no, the justice minister,
22:21sorry,
22:22the justice minister
22:23in that improvised conference
22:24that he does,
22:25that he calls the media
22:26Juan Pablo Hermosilla
22:27after the declaration
22:28of the authority,
22:29he leaves it as a vest.
22:30And even,
22:31and here in Juan Pablo Hermosilla,
22:32if you want,
22:33check,
22:34so you don't think
22:35I'm exaggerating,
22:36he makes a
22:37veiled threat
22:38to Luis Cordero.
22:39Veiled?
22:40Please.
22:41I mean,
22:42very clear.
22:43He takes out
22:44all the,
22:45he starts taking out
22:46all the clients
22:47that the minister had.
22:48Ask the minister
22:49who worked
22:50before being a minister,
22:51who did,
22:52who defended.
22:53Who were his clients.
22:54Who were his clients
22:55and all the story.
22:56And,
22:57and sorry,
22:58Luis Cordero
22:59lowered the tone
23:00also after that.
23:01At least my impression.
23:02But here
23:03he left it
23:04as a vest
23:05to the minister.
23:06He even said
23:07a sentence,
23:08notice that the sentence
23:09that Juan Pablo Hermosilla says
23:10for,
23:11I imagine that the line
23:12he had
23:13against Minister Cordero.
23:14Yes.
23:15I don't know
23:16which university he studied.
23:17I mean,
23:18it's a very clear
23:19line.
23:20Yes.
23:21I mean,
23:22neither of them
23:23saw it.
23:24And,
23:25and,
23:26and,
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28:08And what he says in this interview is that deep down, at some point, when he starts to realize that it is part of a scheme of fake invoices, he claims that he never knew, that the Sauer brothers never told him about this.
28:29He was swindled.
28:30He was swindled. He knew it.
28:33But how does he find out?
28:34Because one day, to make it short, one day Leonardo Villalobos, lawyer of the scheme, of the company, etc., or who did services, tells him,
28:43Rodrigo, we are in a tremendous problem.
28:48And he doesn't believe him, says Rodrigo Tócalo.
28:50I don't believe you, give me proof.
28:51That it is a fake invoice, he didn't even know what the issue was about.
28:55And there comes the motivation to have those proofs.
28:59And what was happening?
29:00Of the audio.
29:02She records the audio.
29:04She gives it to her wife, who is a lawyer.
29:07And he explains that it was so hard for him to believe this issue that he was not even able to listen to the audio at first.
29:12And he had it in his power for a while without listening to it.
29:15Until he finally listens to it and filters it.
29:18As I tell you, out of anger, in my opinion, because it is what reflects my attitude.
29:23Did he know that in the end, filtering the audio, he was also going to fall?
29:27It's a good question, and I don't know.
29:30I think he clearly doesn't know.
29:31I think so, but he never valued my perception, and I think the lawyers never valued the scope that the criminal prosecution could have against him.
29:40Because if he thought, and he always thought, and that was the 7-hour statement he had in court, he always thought that.
29:46That's what it says, that he was swindled.
29:48Of course, deep down, he was naive, that he was deceived.
29:52That he never knew.
29:53That he had no idea.
29:54He knew there were liquidity problems.
29:56Of course, there were liquidity problems, cash problems, thousands of problems, but no.
30:00And when filtering the audio, perhaps, or collaborating in the investigation, well, he is no longer Captain Key.
30:06So he also has benefits for collaborating.
30:09Indeed, he has benefits for collaborating.
30:11What Topperberg's defense did was quite intelligent.
30:14Because deep down, he anticipated his interview, his quote, his judicial statement.
30:20It is different for me to declare in the Public Prosecutor's Office than to declare in a court.
30:24Because deep down, the collaboration that I am doing with the investigation is such that I am being transparent, in quotes,
30:31regarding all the information that I have, and everyone has the right to ask me.
30:35That's why his statement lasted 7 hours in a court, not in the prosecutor's office.
30:39Look, how interesting.
30:40Hey, a question, Claudio, regarding Luis Hermosilla.
30:43Is there a way to continue appealing to the criminal prosecution?
30:47Is there a preventive prison, or is this gentleman going to spend, so to speak, the party parties?
30:51But he must have little desire to celebrate.
30:53More than the party parties, until Christmas, of course.
30:55There is an express rule established in the Criminal Prosecutor's Code that the preventive prison can always be reviewed.
31:00Always.
31:01Always, an accused or detainee can request the review of his preventive prison.
31:05But every week?
31:07Always, every week, whenever he wants.
31:09The point is that this is always done when there are new antecedents,
31:12when there is something new in the investigation, I am collaborating.
31:15Something arises that allows me to say, the circumstances have changed.
31:19That is the key word.
31:21The circumstances have changed, that he does not believe,
31:23and that the precautionary measure is not necessary to obtain the preventive prison.
31:26That's it.
31:28But it seems difficult to those of the antecedents.
31:30Because it was very forceful in August.
31:32In the short term, it seems to me that it is very difficult,
31:34what Daniel Martorell from the Federal Council of the State said yesterday,
31:36is that there is already the pronouncement of a court and a court,
31:39and that no argument of defense took place.
31:42And it seems to me that they have to spend a couple of months
31:45to be able to review that preventive prison again.
31:47At least.
31:48At least.
31:49Yes, but at least as information we handle that he is not going to appeal immediately,
31:53he is going to wait two weeks.
31:55Will it have to do with some strategy?
31:57But today there is no antecedent.
32:01I believe that here the message, in my opinion, more than the political world,
32:05I believe that the messages that Juan Pablo Hermosilla is sending are not to the political world.
32:09No.
32:10The messages that he is sending today are to the prosecution and the court.
32:13I believe that to all.
32:14To all.
32:15To all, because in the end, apart from the allegation that he made yesterday,
32:18it had to do with the fact that the entire state had fallen on top of Luis Hermosilla.
32:23Well, not only, let's say, the public ministry,
32:26but also the Council of Defense of the State and also parliamentary affiliates.
32:31But at the end of today...
32:33But at the end of today, he is defending his brother and he wants his brother to come out.
32:38To achieve that, he has to attack the investigation,
32:41he has to attack the prosecution and he has to attack, in legal terms,
32:44the judicial power to be able to achieve that goal.
32:47The others are context.
32:50Clearly, if you keep bothering me, I'm not going to stay calm.
32:54What is clear, it is true, is that the shelf of institutionality is trembling.
32:59Absolutely.
33:00Absolutely.
33:01What a great phrase.
33:03Yes, well, they were going to be two weeks and three weeks until...
33:06Let's see what happens with this series. It's very entertaining.
33:09There are many who have a chat that have not yet said that they have a chat.
33:12That's the subject.
33:13The question of the moment.
33:14I heard on the radio this journalist who says that...
33:17No, I contacted him once, but he was an archivist.
33:20And he didn't answer me. And he didn't answer me.
33:22They're all like that.
33:25We don't know where it's going to go.
33:27I sold him a kilo of cheese.
33:30A lawyer even came to the court months ago,
33:33who did not appear in the chats that he had for privacy reasons,
33:37because between men and trust, there were some chats that could affect his honor.
33:43Mario Vargas.
33:45There are several like that, because there is a lot of personal life of these people.
33:50Claudio, a million thanks as always.
33:52To you.
33:53It has been a pleasure.
33:54Yes, very cool.