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00:00F.A.C.T.S.! F.A.C.T.S.! F.A.C.T.S.!
00:03Paul, knock loose, White dive on it!
00:05This is twice now the Celtics have been first to the floor.
00:07They try to save it, and Harvard, unbelievable!
00:10Boston, first to the floor, so good.
00:13Brown face fires up the three.
00:15Bang!
00:16Tatum dives on the floor, everybody dives.
00:18Jaylen Brown with the flush!
00:21Blocked by Porzingis! He's doing it all!
00:24Tatum, spinning, driving, left!
00:25Got him!
00:26Washington drives, blocked by White!
00:28Oh, what a block from Derek White!
00:40Welcome in to another episode of First to the Floor.
00:42Ben Vallis here, thank you for joining us.
00:44Hope you're doing well.
00:45We've got 12 days until Celtics Media Day.
00:4812 days until the off-season is basically over.
00:50Alongside me, Wayne Spooney and Jake Eisenberg.
00:53Guys, how we doing?
00:54We're here.
00:55I'm excited to see some of Spooney's divorce-level research here tonight.
00:59Talk some Tatum.
01:01Screw the football.
01:03Screw Dolphins' bills.
01:04It's first to the floor time.
01:05I don't know about you guys, but after watching Tatum on Fallon,
01:11I just really have a strong urge to read the Communist Manifesto.
01:16I welcome overlord comrade Jason Tatum to take over the country
01:21and seize the means of production.
01:23Looking forward to it, boys.
01:25Yes, everyone working together as one for the glory of the Celtics.
01:29We've got a fun show for you tonight.
01:31We'll be reacting to, as we just mentioned, Tatum's appearance
01:34on Jimmy Fallon last night before getting to some news around the team.
01:38We'll top it off with a quick Nemeus Cater deep dive.
01:41I know there's varying levels of effort and research going into this one.
01:45Shout out to RJ as well in the Discord,
01:47who I know is personally very excited about this deep dive.
01:51I've got to give a shout out as well to our guy Jack Simone
01:53from the How About Them Celtics podcast.
01:56Arrived via the mail yesterday.
01:58A huge pouch of confetti from the Championship Game 5 celebrations
02:04scooped up off the floor, I like to imagine, from TD Gardens.
02:07So shout out to Jack and go check out the How About Them Celtics podcast
02:10and the Celtics Lab podcast.
02:11Both great pods under the CLNS media umbrella.
02:15Guys, let's just get to it.
02:17Jason Tatum has been on an insane run of media appearances.
02:20This past week, as if his off-season hasn't been busy enough.
02:24But last night, it sort of culminated, I guess,
02:26in an appearance on The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon.
02:30I do have a picture here somewhere, which we can share
02:32without breaching copyright.
02:34Here we go.
02:35Alpha mentioned Castrofit.
02:37I think it's maybe the jumping off point here.
02:39Jake Spoonie, thoughts?
02:41Loved it.
02:42Who's the stylist?
02:43Absolutely loved it.
02:44I don't know.
02:45Maybe Ella Mai is just one for all, all for one.
02:52How many communist quips are we going to throw in on this show?
02:55Probably a lot.
02:57A lot in the pocket here.
02:59Look, the original big three was Lenin, Stalin, and Trotsky.
03:04So it makes sense, in a basketball standpoint,
03:08that you dress like a communist.
03:10It just makes a lot of sense.
03:12Understated, perfect olive green, lots of pockets
03:16so you can stuff various papers.
03:19Cigars.
03:20Yeah, propaganda to hand out to folks.
03:23Cigars.
03:24Leaflets.
03:25Yeah, exactly.
03:28He's going to go leafing with the boys after this
03:32and let folks know.
03:34I love the fit.
03:35It was amazing.
03:38Jake, thoughts?
03:39Yeah, the fit's good.
03:41He's...
03:43So, obviously, probably the main thing that made the round
03:47probably is the rap battle.
03:50It's either the rap battle or the MVP comments.
03:54And so the word cringe slash corny is thrown around a fair bit
03:59when talking about Jason Tatum, obviously.
04:01And this actually, in my opinion, doesn't fall into cringe slash corny
04:07because you can only be cringe
04:10if you're doing something for the approval of other people
04:13where you think you're cool or you're trying to be cool.
04:16I refuse to believe that Jason Tatum thought that this was cool.
04:20And so I feel like he lent into this being a kid's book
04:23that he was promoting and he knew this was not cool.
04:28And he's gotten so much shit by the Twitter trolls, etc.
04:33And I tweeted out, I was like,
04:35this is pretty much confirmation that Jason Tatum
04:37doesn't give a fuck about Twitter.
04:39And it was very funny because I got someone named Clore World
04:42who is a Kawhi Leonard stan with 9,000 followers
04:45being like, yes, he does.
04:47You could just see how he's acting at the Olympics.
04:49And it just makes me so happy that there's people like us
04:52in their basement that actually think that their tweets
04:56are having an impact on the psyche of someone like Jason Tatum.
04:59And so to see him come out and just be clearly not caring,
05:04that's a good sign for me.
05:07Yeah, Spoonie, is this a clear sign
05:09that JT just doesn't give a shit?
05:12I mean, yeah.
05:14You don't do that if you give a shit.
05:17When I saw it, I was like,
05:19oh no, he's going to get absolutely roasted for this.
05:22And he doesn't give a shit.
05:24I'm like, fuck, man.
05:26You're making it tough to defend you sometimes.
05:29But no, that's a great take, Jake.
05:31You've actually made me feel a lot better about it.
05:34If you were just presented that video without context,
05:39he's got no flow, man.
05:42I was hoping for it sounding better than Jimmy Fallon,
05:46at least, and he kind of did.
05:48But it was like an elementary school nursery rhyme style
05:51rhyme.
05:52So it was fine.
05:53It was something.
05:54It's something to talk about in September
05:56before a training session comes out.
05:58Ben, where were you?
06:00I need to know your thoughts on this, Ben.
06:02So when he asked Questlove to drop the beat,
06:04that was a smooth introduction.
06:06It seemed like a guy who knew what he was doing.
06:08He called on, we'll call him the selector in Questlove there,
06:11like the sort of emcee of the band,
06:13the leader of the band, dropped the beat.
06:15But from then on, it was completely downhill.
06:17Just down to like the mic holding technique
06:19looked awkward.
06:20It looked like me figuring out how to use
06:22my wife's KitchenAid.
06:23Just no idea, no dexterity, no experience.
06:26I know, I'm going to blend my hand off of this thing.
06:29So yeah, all downhill from there.
06:32And then clearly reading off a teleprompter,
06:34which I think gave him some slack back
06:36because it's like, okay, there's a writer's room
06:38and he's just such a good guy.
06:40Has so much natural aura as like a person
06:42and a leader and a role model.
06:44He's like, yeah, okay, whatever.
06:46Like I'm here to promote a kid's book.
06:48I'll do whatever you ask of me,
06:50including reading your like bullshit words
06:52off of this teleprompter for the entertainment
06:54of your audience.
06:55I did think that Jimmy Fallon needed to do
06:57a better job of elevating the presence of JT.
06:59Like he has to understand this is basically
07:01his first like solo mainstream television
07:03appearance in that capacity.
07:05And we said, or I said in our Discord
07:07before the show, the link to the Discord
07:09by the way is in the description below,
07:11that Jimmy Fallon had his work cut out for him
07:13to try and elevate Jason Tatum.
07:15And essentially, you know, credit to JT,
07:17but I'll just say it, like make him not boring.
07:19And I don't think he did a good enough job at that.
07:21And I've seen him really go above and beyond
07:23to elevate other way more boring guests
07:25on his show before.
07:27And he just didn't put in the same effort.
07:29Did he get the Joe Mazzola stamp of approval?
07:31He did not embody the whatever it takes,
07:33however long it takes mentality
07:35going into this interview with Jason Tatum.
07:37So Jimmy Fallon has a lot to answer for.
07:39So JT, I guess the summary, right?
07:41Doesn't give a fuck.
07:43And we still love him very much.
07:45But Spooty, you mentioned if this is presented
07:47without context, and I think for a lot of people
07:49it was and it has been, and therefore
07:51he's probably copying a little bit of shit rightfully.
07:53Yeah, I think that's fair.
07:56But so the other part of this
07:58that like made the round was like
08:00I saw Kendrick Perkins is back
08:02in our life, which is just
08:04on one hand it's maybe good
08:06because Boss Ball's getting closer to being back.
08:08But the fact that Kendrick Perkins
08:10is back on my timeline
08:12is a terrible thing. I didn't watch
08:14the thing, but he's like,
08:16it was like selfishness was like
08:18his word of the day when it came to Jason Tatum
08:20talking about the MVP. And it's just funny
08:22because Tatum was also on a morning show
08:25Nate Burleson is on a morning show
08:27now, which he was
08:29like a fringe wide receiver for the Detroit Lions
08:31and then was on NFL Network and now he's
08:33he was awesome. And he's made
08:35the smart decision to go do morning TV
08:37which is very cool. But he was on that
08:39Tatum was on that show as well. And he did
08:41I thought a really good job interviewing
08:43for that one because Nate was like
08:45people are thinking, you know, revenge season
08:47stuff like that. And Tatum goes
08:49I'd love to win MVP
08:51but team success
08:54takes precedent over everything else and the
08:56plenty of guys have won MVP and
08:58on the title as well. And
09:00shockingly of
09:02the two clips that get picked up for
09:04Kendrick Perkins, it's the
09:06second one where it's like who's going to win MVP?
09:08It's like he's literally that
09:10that's laying Tatum up to say himself
09:12obviously for that specific question.
09:14So just more nonsense
09:16but I actually really liked Tatum's
09:18appearance on the morning show with
09:20Burleson. I thought he sounded like a politician
09:22he was like really smooth and really crisp
09:24was like one of his better performances
09:26in an interview
09:28and I thought that he answered that question
09:30in particular and that seems to be the actual
09:32drumbeat as far as comments
09:34coming out. It's like not skipping
09:36steps. He said that in the same interview
09:38we're not skipping steps. We got to go back. And that's
09:40why we were successful last year. He's
09:42talked about how the year when
09:44they lost to the Heat in the conference finals
09:46after the year they made the finals. They just
09:48like I just want to get back. I want to get back. Let
09:50me get me to the playoffs and
09:52he has now learned that that's not how it works
09:54and so just positive reinforcement
09:56keep parodying our boy
09:58Joe Mazzuola. He's like the most coachable guy
10:00in the world. He's just full of Brad Stephens
10:02isms and Joe Mazzuola isms. He's
10:04freaking perfect basketball player.
10:06Isn't the media training like low
10:08key impressive when you know he's just like
10:10dodging like people are throwing punches
10:12at him essentially like trying to get him
10:14oftentimes to say something even on
10:16Fallon where he was like who's going to win MVP
10:18who's going to be the matchup in the finals
10:20and he says himself MVP
10:22which is like great just don't implicate anyone else
10:24don't bring any other names into the news cycle
10:26and then just go we're just going to run it back with the
10:28same matchup finals wise
10:30as last year, which is like the least controversial thing
10:32you can say and he's doing this all on the fly
10:34is 26 years old. Probably
10:36some parallels to his decision-making on the court
10:38as well. And this is obviously a very biased
10:40Jayson Tatum fan talking but
10:42very impressive. I'm trying
10:44speaking of thinking on the fly to
10:46think of a way to segue to the next part of our
10:48Jayson Tatum segment here, which is basically to
10:50talk about how he could be
10:52the second best player in the league if you want
10:54to factor in some of the more
10:56I guess like media favored
10:58stats or like ball Noah
11:00favorite stats like Darko
11:02daily plus minus which we'll get into in a second
11:04but I want to ask you guys we talked about on our
11:06live stream yesterday where we live stream
11:08game one a rewatch party game
11:10one of the NBA finals. Are you guys both
11:12writing about Jayson Tatum for Celtics blog
11:14at the moment because Spoonie I know you're like specifically
11:16covering like the aura
11:18like public opinion aspect of
11:20Tatum at the moment. What are you guys both working on in that sense?
11:22That's where
11:24I'm right now. Yeah, well I basically
11:26the
11:28goofy ass stupid
11:30subjective or a discussion
11:32has now started bleeding into the
11:34objective evaluation of his game
11:36as a player and that's
11:38really really really dumb
11:40and that also happened to Tim Duncan
11:42so I just kind of discuss
11:44that and like at the end of Duncan's career
11:46I found articles
11:48from this year saying Duncan was
11:50the most underrated player of all time
11:52like that's how much it impacted
11:54Duncan's career because he was fucking boring
11:56that he was underrated despite winning
11:58five titles and multiple MVPs so
12:00I think
12:02the same thing is happening to Tatum
12:04so yeah it's definitely it's going to be
12:06different for a few reasons but
12:08like you know you got Duncan and
12:10Kobe was the was the
12:12aunt of that generation if
12:14you're going to like I guess compared
12:16Kobe being the cool one and
12:18Duncan being the less cool one
12:20I don't think aunt ever reaches anywhere close to
12:22Kobe levels either
12:24but yeah like aunt is to Tatum's
12:26Duncan
12:28Aunt Iverson. Aunt Iverson okay
12:30got it got it got it got it that's a great
12:32comparison yeah cool as
12:34hell everyone thinks he's better
12:36than he is because he's cool as hell
12:38stolen MVP which will probably
12:40happen with aunt at some point
12:42yep that's about right
12:44and then yeah I actually
12:46I'm just writing about it's simple
12:48just to quill everyone's
12:50lizard brain
12:52that can Jason Tatum shoot and does it
12:54actually matter if you can shoot anyway
12:56so I don't know
12:58how long it takes from
13:00submitting to publishing SpooniePale has
13:02a better idea from that but I'm sure they'll be coming
13:04out over the next few days and
13:06yeah so that's
13:08what
13:10I had a throwaway line about
13:12Tim Duncan and Jason Tatum without
13:14us talking to each other either so
13:16great minds baby almost like we've spent
13:18countless hours talking about
13:20Jason Tatum
13:22and bonding in Vegas during
13:24summer week yeah well look we've got
13:26a link to like Spoonie's Celtics blog
13:28profile in the description below this applies to
13:30the audio podcast and the YouTube show
13:32we'll have to throw Jake's in there as well now that he's a
13:34full time Celtics blog writer but he talked about
13:36the Tim Duncan side of things and shout out to our guy
13:38Tyce in the discord
13:40he threw this up here which I've just realized is
13:42too small for me to now read but essentially
13:44Tim Duncan this graph
13:46I think is from or this chart rather is from
13:48statmuse Tim Duncan had the highest plus
13:50minus by a player in his first
13:52seven seasons at plus
13:543630 if I can read that
13:56tiny writing Jason Tatum
13:58is in there at number five
14:00ranked as far as plus minus
14:02rankings in the first seven
14:04seasons of their career some have called him
14:06wing Duncan as I unblock
14:08Spoonie's face from the stream here welcome back Spoonie
14:10yeah so interesting
14:12correlation there particularly
14:14when you talk about like from the culture perspective
14:16I guess the boring aspects of
14:18Tatum's play and how
14:20he's kind of underrated
14:22I think this is what we were discussing in our stream
14:24yesterday because of how
14:26infrequently he jumps off the page from a
14:28culture standpoint he totally flies
14:30the radar from an on the court production
14:32standpoint and this is a guy who like just led his
14:34team to a championship obviously didn't win
14:36the conference finals or finals MVP
14:38rightfully deserved to Jalen
14:40Brown and that's an argument for a different day if you want
14:42to you know speak contrary to that
14:44but suffice to say Jason Tatum
14:46is incredibly good but he's sort of you know
14:48it's seven years now going into I believe he's
14:50eighth year in the league and he's consistently
14:52flied below the sort of
14:54fanscape attention radar
14:56if you will so in this sort of second
14:58half moving on from the media circus
15:00that he's just you know very successfully completed
15:02I guess we wanted to talk about
15:04some of those underrated aspects so we just
15:06talked about the plus minus aspect
15:08if you scroll through Spoonie's Twitter
15:10right now it's just like some of the best
15:12modern day pro Jason
15:14Tatum propaganda you will ever
15:16see I don't know if either of you guys want to speak
15:18to this one but again it's from StatMuse
15:20and it's just the fact that on aggregate
15:22Jason Tatum has a plus minus of plus
15:243,111
15:26in his career like it seems
15:28like no matter how you slice it you can easily make
15:30a case for him being like kind of
15:32one of the easily top five best players in the league
15:34right now yeah
15:36the Celtics just really good with him on
15:38the court and like in the regular season this was like
15:40the first time in his career where it wasn't as
15:42pronounced as normal and
15:44then what happened when we got to the playoffs
15:46as soon as Jason Tatum went off the court
15:48the Celtics were not nearly
15:50as good as when he was on the court
15:52and that is just true no matter who
15:54is on this team whether it's Tristan Thompson
15:56and Daniel Tice at the starting front
15:58court or it's Derek White, Drew Holliday,
16:00Chris Asplazinga, Al Horford, Jalen Brown
16:02like Jason Tatum
16:04is the straw that stirs
16:06the drink it's not a freaking
16:08accident that he leads the
16:10team in points, rebounds, assists
16:12minutes, usage, plus minus
16:14like
16:16it's not an accident it's not a surprise
16:18and when we were watching the game
16:20one yesterday like
16:22it just jumped off the page and
16:24always when you're able to when you're
16:26watching a game a second time things are going to jump off
16:28in a different way and it's
16:30just like so many possessions
16:32happen because of
16:34Jason Tatum like Jalen Brown is kind of
16:36remembered for that in that third
16:38quarter when the Mavs cut it to eight
16:40and Jalen Brown gets himself to the line a couple
16:42of times but the reason
16:44like Jalen Brown got to the line
16:46and was able to like get the defense out of position
16:48where he was able to draw those fouls
16:50were right off Jason Tatum initiating
16:52and collapsing the defense and getting the ball moving
16:54it's like over
16:56and over and over again, you know, there was a
16:58he collapses the defense finds Chris
17:00that's posing us for a wide open three who
17:02misses the three Jason Tatum gets the offensive
17:04rebound quick post up Chris taps cuts
17:06Tatum finds him it's just
17:08like the little things that he does
17:10that aren't gonna you know
17:12end up on NBA Twitter's
17:14you know viral tweets
17:16because it's like who cares about
17:18that play but he just
17:20creates swings
17:22within these games over and over again on both
17:24ends that add up
17:26in the plus minus and add up in the freaking win column
17:28yeah like
17:30him coming off the center
17:32to cut off a driver and then getting back
17:34to the center there's no stat
17:36that tells you that right it's like
17:38but he probably just saved two points
17:40forced a kick out and then
17:42you know we're not going into deep
17:44rotation because Tatum's able to
17:46help and recover quick
17:48because he's a super athletic
17:50power forward guarding the center right
17:52and yeah on the offensive end
17:54like that entire playoff run I think
17:56was like a tribute to
17:58how
18:00good he's become as like
18:02a floor general and manipulating
18:04defenses and like
18:06all so many I bet
18:0870% of our possessions
18:10where Tatum was on the floor started with
18:12him initiating the offense
18:14he essentially played point guard and guarded
18:16centers for an entire playoff run so
18:18I just brought this up
18:20or rather I just looked this up
18:22for Tatum's entire career
18:24in the playoffs the Celtics are plus
18:261.5 with him off the floor
18:28they are plus 8.3
18:30with him on the court
18:32which is bananas man
18:34entire career
18:36they are that's like a 60
18:38win pace almost in the
18:40playoffs including
18:42his rookie year his second
18:44year before he was even
18:46a superstar so
18:48that's how dominant he is and I think
18:50what people undervalue
18:52is like I don't know
18:54if I could say he's a playoff riser
18:56but he absolutely
18:58maintains his level of
19:00excellence in the playoffs and there are not
19:02that many guys who do that like
19:04basically everybody drops at least
19:06a little bit other than
19:08Jimmy Butler is the only guy I can truly
19:10think of that's absolutely better
19:12in the playoffs than he is in the regular season
19:14like Tatum's ability to just like be
19:16the same guy in the playoffs as he is
19:18in the regular season is super underrated
19:20and he's never fucking hurt
19:22so like not only are you getting his
19:24massive impact you're always getting
19:26it because he's always playing which is
19:28another underrated aspect of his game
19:30so like the dude is a fucking
19:32winner period that's
19:34it and that's what should matter to people
19:36but oh Lucas scored 3 more points
19:38and have 4 more assists like yeah he
19:40got beat up in 5 games
19:42and we attacked him every possession on
19:44defense like who's the better player
19:46people are obsessed with
19:48the 3 point percentage
19:50obsessed and it's ironic
19:522k stats
19:54it's ironic because Lucas shot worse
19:56from 3 in the finals Jalen also
19:58shot worse from 3 in the finals
20:00people are hyper fixated
20:02on Tatum's ability to shoot
20:043's in a way they just aren't for other
20:06players and like
20:08yeah it's really hard
20:10to it's just so frustrating
20:12when he's doing so many more things but
20:14it's like if he was to
20:16have made one more 3 pointer per
20:18game
20:20he would have shot 42% from 3
20:22and people would be like oh my
20:24god but it's like
20:263 extra points per game changing literally
20:28anything about what happened to the Celtics in the playoffs
20:30no they're going to go 16-3 still
20:32because the 3 games they lost they got smoked
20:34there's literally going to be no change
20:36in the outcome
20:38which is why his impact
20:40is not defined by
20:42his 3 point shot and even his fuel goal percentage
20:44to some extent as well
20:46I want to serve up the main course here but I want to be careful
20:48not to my own
20:50personal usage rate to be too high as the one person
20:52on the stream who's not currently writing about
20:54or hasn't just written about Jason Tatum
20:56but I mentioned advanced
20:58stats that are favored by the more
21:00ball-knowing corners of
21:02the media sphere and that is Darko
21:04DPM which is daily plus
21:06minus and it's essentially how much
21:08the Darko model thinks a given
21:10player has impacted the score
21:12of a given game and we've got a couple
21:14of ways of slicing it here the DPM
21:16rankings suggest that
21:18Jason Tatum behind Nikola Jokic
21:20might very well be the second best
21:22player in the NBA which
21:24given a lot of the negative attention
21:26he's getting at the moment even today
21:28Zach Lowe 30 minutes before
21:30this show went live dropped a pod
21:32it's like is Jason Tatum ever going to win MVP
21:34and I caught 10 minutes of it before we went live here
21:36and they're basically like no he won't
21:38well Darko DPM
21:40says otherwise folks and then another way of slicing
21:42the Darko DPM side of
21:44things and Spoonie again this is from your Twitter
21:46it just compares him to some of
21:48his peers or like some people
21:50who fans
21:52might think are equal to or better
21:54than Jason Tatum such as Anthony Edwards
21:56Devin Booker, Jalen Brunson
21:58and you can look at like the career trajectory
22:00based on this
22:02Darko DPM stat just has
22:04Jason Tatum like well and truly a
22:06cut above what many would consider his
22:08equals or his peers in the league
22:10so I said I wasn't going to talk too much and then I
22:12went ahead and did just that so Spoonie Jake
22:14I'll throw to you guys
22:16I do think it's unlikely that he does win
22:18MVP at some point like I don't
22:20it's especially today
22:22like think about the last
22:24few MVPs I mean it's basically just
22:26been Embiid and Jokic for the last
22:28four MVPs right?
22:30Shea got kind of close you're just going
22:32to need to be
22:34there's a chance obviously but it's
22:36not going to happen over the
22:38definitely not next season I'd be stunned
22:40and then the year after
22:42maybe but then like once this team has to
22:44retool in theory
22:46given the CBA stuff like
22:48when there maybe there isn't
22:50an Owl or a KP or a Derek
22:52or a Drew whatever it may be or even saying that
22:54makes my sphincter
22:56unhappy but like until
22:58he has to go back to like
23:00a version of what he did in the 20
23:0221 season where he was
23:04putting up 50 bombs on the
23:06regular he had his career high 60
23:08point game against the Spurs like he
23:10hasn't had to do stuff like that where
23:12he has 50 points in the play-in game
23:14against the Wizards and then 50 points again
23:16in the first round he hasn't had to be
23:18that guy last season in
23:20the year before because that's not going to be
23:22conducive to team success. That's
23:24just not going to be how they
23:26win more games. So maybe
23:28in a year or two when he has
23:30no choice but to raise his usage up another
23:32level and it's more like role players
23:34that can't do as much as the Derek
23:36Whites and Drew holidays. That's when an MVP
23:38becomes because he's always going to kind of have a chance
23:40because of his durability
23:42and like I think there's going to
23:44be a fatigue factor when it comes to Jokic
23:46Luka will eventually win one
23:48just because like he's counting stats which is so insane
23:50everybody loves Shay
23:52because the scoring efficiency
23:54consistency people are
23:56obsessed with it and
23:58and Tatum kind of saves his highest
24:00impact stuff for the playoffs, which I'm totally fine
24:02with like I don't need him going balls
24:04to the walls defensively in the regular
24:06season if he played his playoff level defense
24:08in the regular season that
24:10Mikey that would definitely give him a better chance, but
24:12he's not going to do that and I don't think you should
24:14so it's just hard for a wing like when's
24:16the last time a wing one MVP
24:18like do we have to go back to
24:20LeBron for him to actually
24:22have done it
24:24Steph did it
24:26Durant
24:28Durant didn't do it since like
24:302014
24:32exactly so like
24:34it's been a while since
24:36a wing
24:38MVP has actually
24:40popped up so they're kind of hard
24:42to just straight up because
24:44Luka is a point guard like he has the ball
24:46in his hands all the time. She's a point guard. You're going to
24:48have the ball in your hands so
24:50much so it's kind of like the
24:52archetype isn't really there
24:54Yeah, no, I'm
24:56with you dude. I don't think he's
24:58ever going to win an MVP and that's just fine
25:00you know, like I was saying
25:02compared him to Duncan. We both compared it to
25:04Duncan Jake. He's he's not going to be as good as
25:06Tim Duncan. No, no, no. Yeah, that's like
25:08one of the six best players of all time
25:10right correct and I'm not really saying he's
25:12going to be as good as Duncan
25:14but yeah, I agree with all that Jake
25:16I think going back to the
25:18Darko DPM thing really quick like
25:20could you bring that chart up again quickly
25:22Ben? Sorry. So Darko
25:24DPM is predictive. It's trying
25:26to take previous
25:28information and predict how
25:30this guy's going to play in the future
25:32so that's why you see that big dip in
25:3421-22. That's because
25:36that's just after he got
25:38COVID so it's taking all his
25:40COVID stats and projecting it out
25:42and it thinks he's getting worse obviously
25:44then he gets healthy in 2021
25:46and he fucking skyrockets again
25:48and he's like twice as good as some
25:50of these guys per this stat which
25:52you know isn't an apples to apples
25:54comparison but yeah he's way above
25:56Edwards Booker and Brunson
25:58through Darko so I
26:00don't see him at least in the
26:02current I think the Celtics are too good at
26:04building teams for Tatum to ever win MVP
26:06yeah that's
26:08so that's I was just going to say that
26:10so looking at the MVPs
26:12by the way it's like Jokic, Embiid, Jokic, Jonic,
26:14Jokic, Giannis, Giannis who we forgot
26:16and he's like
26:18almost a win but he's not really
26:20and then Harden,
26:22Westbrook, Curry, Curry and then it's
26:24Durant and that's 2014
26:26Durant, LeBron, LeBron back 2012
26:282013-14 so like
26:30that's not going to happen but yeah
26:32so the problem is as well
26:34Tatum and Jalen make it so
26:36easy to build around because
26:38they can play a variety of roles
26:40especially Tatum so you can fit all
26:42these good players around him so that
26:44he's not going to have to
26:46be a guy
26:48like this like the level of usage
26:50required to reach
26:52do you remember what James Harden was doing
26:54in that season like he was averaging
26:5640% usage one year
26:58and Westbrook won it because
27:00he was a triple double guy but again
27:02that was just but again he was the same
27:04with the usage he was in the high 30s
27:06Tatum's like I don't think he's even cracked
27:0830 maybe he's cracked 30 like once
27:10yeah I think he was 30 like
27:12almost dead nuts 30
27:14he was 28% in the past playoffs
27:16tied with Jalen Brown it's just like he's not
27:18the guy that's going to have the
27:20ball enough anytime
27:22soon and so he's just
27:24not going to have the counting stats to be an MVP
27:26guy and you might be
27:28listening to this show thinking oh great
27:30another segment where they just talk about how awesome
27:32Jason Tatum is again as we're
27:34welcome to the show folks
27:36absolutely but like he just continues
27:38to play the right way and like
27:40embody these like really these like red hourback
27:42approaches to the game
27:44and really just do everything
27:46that is asked of him both on and off
27:48the court and yet criminally underrated
27:50for just being this sounds corny
27:52but like being the best Jason Tatum
27:54that he can be that the team needs him
27:56to be and not like really going outside
27:58of those well defined lines and that's
28:00just such an underrated trait and underrated
28:02quality we're going to continue to celebrate
28:04that the incels on NBA Reddit
28:06are going to continue to do the opposite
28:08and forever the twain shall dance
28:10we're going to come back in a moment with some news
28:12but first here's a word from our friends over at
28:14GameTime. It's finally football season the West
28:16Virginia Mountaineers kick off the season against
28:18number eight Penn State and Morgantown
28:20I'll be using GameTime to easily find
28:22incredible deals on great tickets in Milan
28:24Pushkar Stadium to catch the Mounties
28:26hopefully upset the Nittany Lions
28:28when you jump on GameTime it's got
28:30the stadium right in front of you it's really easy
28:32to find awesome seats. You can get amazing
28:34deals like the aptly named Super
28:36Deal which can save money and get you
28:38a great spot in the stadium. It's also got concert
28:40tickets and tickets to a bunch of other shows
28:42so definitely check that out. Personally
28:44I love the all in pricing which you toggle
28:46on and GameTime shows you the full price
28:48up front, no surprise fees
28:50at checkout. So take the guesswork
28:52out of buying concert tickets or sports
28:54tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime
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29:10Shout out GameTime
29:12shout out the CLNS network for presenting
29:14the first to the floor YouTube show and podcast
29:16big game coming up this Sunday in the
29:18NFL, the Bengals versus the Chiefs
29:20I'm told
29:24I'm told very directly
29:26by our friends at
29:28CLNS and GameTime that this is a hugely
29:30important game. Jake,
29:32Spoonie, you guys probably have more to add
29:34there than I do.
29:36Big names, big names.
29:38Bengals are a
29:40shit show. I've already placed my Chiefs
29:42minus 5.5 bet so
29:44yeah, locked
29:46in. I'm legitimately excited
29:48for the Patriots this weekend. Like I have not been
29:50really excited for a Patriots game in a long
29:52time but I was inspired by
29:54by the win against the Bengals
29:56and the Patriots are actually underdogs
29:58by 3.5 points so I actually like
30:00taking the Pats plus 3.5
30:02as well there so
30:04yeah man, get me
30:06a little football first four
30:08weeks of the season. Let's go! Football!
30:10Hop on a plane.
30:12Raimondre needs like 40 carries
30:14I think. He's going to get them baby.
30:16If you want to see
30:18it in person, pull up the GameTime app, get yourself
30:20a good deal to get to that
30:22fixture or several
30:24others. We're going to be back in a
30:26moment, actually in a moment we're going to get to
30:28the Namiers-catered deep dive but first we've got
30:30some news.
30:38That's right, the Celtics have completed
30:40their 21-man training
30:42camp roster by assigning Jordan
30:44Shackel to an
30:46Exhibit 10 contract. Per
30:48Bobby Manning of Celtics blog
30:50this completes their
30:52like their
30:54geez I really stuffed that up, their training
30:56camp roster as far as Exhibit 10 deals
30:58are concerned so they're the ones going to Lonnie Walker
31:00the 4th, Ron Harper
31:02Jr. and Tristan Annaruna
31:04so I don't know guys
31:06thoughts, takes on
31:08Jordan Shackel. We'll run some
31:10film of him who he obviously played for the
31:12main Celtics last year
31:14and he's a bit of a shooter
31:16from what I can tell but
31:18do you expect to see much of him beyond
31:20training camp? I guess is a good
31:22jumping off point?
31:24No, I would be stunned
31:26if we ever see him touch
31:28an NBA court
31:30especially with the 2024
31:322025 Boston Celtics but
31:34he's tall
31:36ish and can shoot
31:38so that's the
31:40shooting with size
31:42prerequisite to join the Boston Celtics
31:44at the moment.
31:46He shot 39% in the G League
31:48the last two years, he only played 10
31:50games for Maine last year but
31:52shot 39%
31:54he's 6'6 wing
31:56who played with Malachi Flynn
31:58on some really good San Diego State
32:00teams so winner
32:02clearly, massive winner
32:04but I know
32:06nothing about this guy
32:08I feel like we're all in the top 1%
32:10of NBA fans
32:12we follow this stuff pretty closely
32:14never heard of the man in my life
32:16although I do recognize him from when I
32:18catch J.D. Davison highlights
32:20and I was like, oh, that's who
32:22that guy is
32:24I have some recollection
32:26I'm going to be honest
32:28to you guys, I know nothing about his game
32:30other than he shoots and his height
32:32Yeah, I think that's okay, he's just like
32:34contracted to come in and defend
32:36Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown and
32:38space the floor on the B team
32:40to force our guys to think
32:42at least a little bit defensively
32:44he's short term contract with the Celtics
32:46and it sounds like some of these other
32:48exhibit 10 contracts, he'll get an opportunity to
32:50play in Maine again, with that comes
32:52a cash bonus, undisclosed
32:54figure, but obviously there's a lot to
32:56be gained from Jordan
32:58Shackle's perspective to
33:00undertake this role with the Celtics and hopefully he can
33:02challenge our guys and
33:04whatever it takes, as long as it takes
33:06if he can force the Jays or Peyton Pritchard
33:08or whoever to think about their approach
33:10on either end of the court, even just for a moment
33:12that might lead to a ban on 19
33:14which is obviously
33:16a huge stretch
33:18Yes, exactly, thank you Jordan
33:20The Namias cater deep dive, getting on
33:22to some more important stuff
33:24but all credit to Jordan Shackle there
33:26The deep dive, this has been a pretty
33:28popular series so far this off season
33:30where we do deep dives on
33:32more particularly the deeper
33:34end of the bench guys whose impact
33:36on the team throughout the regular season
33:38their role, where they sit in the
33:40rotation, might be under
33:42some degree of questioning, so
33:44Namias Cater, I think it can be a little bit divisive
33:46there's a Luke Cornett cohort
33:48of fandom, there's a Namias Cater
33:50cohort, and they're at odds with each other
33:52so Spoonie, I'll throw it to you
33:54you've thrown some good stats in our run sheet here
33:56what's the skinny on Namias Cater this year?
33:58Okay, so I think broadly
34:00I'm not going to say anything people
34:02don't already know about Namias Cater
34:04he is kind of what you see is what you get with this
34:06dude, but super
34:08limited offensive player, right?
34:10He shot 74%
34:12in the restricted area
34:1436%
34:16in the paint outside the restricted area
34:18which is not good
34:20especially for a 7 footer
34:22he took 2 shots outside of the paint
34:24in the entire season, which
34:26almost seems impossible considering how much
34:28garbage time he played, but
34:30I just think generally
34:32Cater has a
34:34clearly defined offensive role
34:36he's a good screensetter
34:38and he's an elite role man
34:40by sort of the play type
34:42synergy numbers, 95th percentile
34:46which is, you know
34:48it's kind of difficult to parse
34:50anything out of that because
34:52a lot of those are probably
34:54in garbage time when teams
34:56aren't playing defense at 100%
34:58but screening well
35:00is a translatable skill
35:02and he's athletic, like he has
35:04some vertical athleticism, so
35:06you can keep it really
35:08simple with him, and he can be pretty
35:10effective, at least when it comes to scoring
35:12the ball, despite him being
35:14extraordinarily limited
35:16Yeah, look
35:18I think I'm the resident
35:20Cater hater on the podcast here
35:22just because of how much I
35:24actually like Luke Cornett, and this is
35:26like a classic dimensions
35:28conversation, like Luke
35:30Cornett, he's not popping off the
35:32screen, you know, like
35:34he's not getting his head above the rim
35:36in a way that Neemias Cater can
35:38do, and that's exciting, so
35:40there's definitely a tantalizing
35:42potential element to
35:44someone like Cater, it's like, oh my god
35:46he hasn't really played that much basketball
35:48maybe he figures it out, he's got a little bit
35:50of passing chops, but
35:52the reality is when I watch him play
35:54it's like, that's
35:56kind of all he is, he's a raw
35:58theoretically
36:00guy with potential, and outside
36:02of that, I'm not really a big fan
36:04the decision making is kind of slow
36:06but again, this is contextual to
36:08him being a minimum
36:10he's not, he's like our third big
36:12or fourth big
36:14or fifth big, yeah
36:16he's like our fifth big, once you
36:18include Kristaps Porzingis
36:20and if we're talking
36:22about it in that context, I like him
36:24you know, little bit of potential, little
36:26bit of a project, proven he can do
36:28two things, which is sit to those
36:30screens, Spoonie, and yeah
36:32just like, when you're on the court, set a
36:34screen, roll to the rim
36:36and hustle, like
36:38he's got a good motor, and if you're gonna be that
36:40big and strong, and that
36:42able to jump that high
36:44you're gonna be able to at least be fine
36:46it's where I have a problem
36:48is when people cite
36:50he's like, off on off
36:52stuff, he played 333
36:54minutes this season, which
36:56is fuck all, and
36:58he was
37:00had a net rating of 19.71
37:02when he was on the court, which is
37:04like, would be twice
37:06the net rating of the
37:0864 win historically dominant boss
37:10at Celtics, so obviously there's
37:12some noise on that, and it's like the defense
37:14was the same on and off, he just happened
37:16to be on the court when the Celtics hit a ton of threes
37:18that's all that happened really
37:20in those, in like a bunch of those minutes
37:22but again
37:24333 minutes of him not being
37:26a disaster with that little bit of potential
37:28I'm here for
37:30now we've got the chip
37:32I'm like, yeah, give him some reps
37:34let's see if he can develop a little bit, can he
37:36like, he's got a little bit of that young Rob
37:38Itis in that it's like, he doesn't know
37:40exactly where to be in the drop
37:42he's got at least a little jump happy
37:44on pump fakes, because
37:46like, playing drop coverage is
37:48is not, you know, created equal
37:50among all players, Chris Asplazingas is an
37:52elite drop defender, not
37:54just because he's incredibly tall
37:56and long, it's because he's got a high basketball
37:58IQ, he knows when he should and should
38:00not be jumping, where to contest
38:02how to impact shots, Luke Cornette's
38:04like, a level down in
38:06that level of, you know, dimensions
38:08and IQ, and Cade is kind of like
38:10a bit more dimensions than Luke
38:12but struggles with the IQ side of like
38:14how far up should I be on the level, should I
38:16be jumping on a lob or a pump fake
38:18like, that's the part of the
38:20drop coverage that he's not great at
38:22yet, but he also hasn't played a lot, so
38:24I'm intrigued to see, because if
38:26he can figure that out, I do
38:28think he has some tools to be
38:30a positive defender
38:32Yeah, it's interesting with the net rating
38:34because it's like, who is he typically playing
38:36against, is it just a case that our
38:38really deep bench is better than most
38:40opposition's really deep bench, because
38:42the other stat is, well that too
38:44obviously, but 17.1
38:46offensive rebounding percentage
38:48which is good for 99th percentile
38:50per clean in the glass, and small
38:52sample size, but again, it's like
38:54who's boxing him out at that point, like
38:56who is he really fighting for to get
38:58those boards at such a high clip, but
39:00yeah, similar to Luke Cornette. How many of those are his own misses too?
39:02Yeah, that's a really good point
39:04He's doing a little Angel Reese action
39:06in there. Similar to Luke
39:08Cornette, he's efficient in that he
39:10just like, sticks to what he's good at, he stays
39:12in his lane, the problem is like, his scope is
39:14even narrower than Cornette's
39:16but this tracks, and it's fine
39:18for who is essentially a fourth
39:20string big. If Luke Cornette is a
39:22perfect third string big
39:24then the Mia Skater is essentially a perfect
39:26fourth string big, I think.
39:28But a lot of similarities
39:30to Cornette, but where he really differs
39:32is just his overall awareness. You guys touched on
39:34this. In other words, like how often does he
39:36put himself or a teammate in a position
39:38to succeed, whether that's the quality
39:40or the timing of a screen, like
39:42a roll or where to position himself
39:44around the dunker spot.
39:46Cornette's hoops acumen
39:48is just way better in that regard than the Mia
39:50Skater. It's a tough one for the
39:52dimensions people of the world,
39:54myself included, because it's like, clearly
39:56that's not enough, like you actually have to have
39:58some sort of hoops acumen to complement
40:00that, and that's what we're sort of waiting for
40:02in the case of the Mia Skater, at least offensively.
40:04Yeah, he's
40:06okay, I think, at finding
40:08himself in the dunker spot, but that's
40:10also like the easiest thing
40:12to do. Stand
40:14there, and when they, you know, when the
40:16health defense comes, I'm going to drop it off
40:18to you, and you can dunk it.
40:20But yeah, it just goes back to like, he's
40:22very limited offensively, so those
40:24are the types of ways you're going to have
40:26to use him. Question for you guys,
40:28all right? There were a couple
40:30times where he made some like
40:32pretty high-level passes,
40:34dare I say, not Rob Williams-esque,
40:36who he's only a year younger
40:38than Rob Will, by the way,
40:40so it's like, I don't know how much untapped
40:42potential there truly is with him, but
40:44he made some really nice passes, I think
40:46he had one like sweet backdoor to Sam
40:48Hauser near the end of the season,
40:5020 assists to 13
40:52turnovers, which is like kind of an
40:54encouraging assist-to-turnover
40:56ratio for what is essentially
40:58like a stone-handed center. Is
41:00there any passing upside in the Mia Skater
41:02fellas? I think there's a tiny
41:04bit, there's a tiny bit, but again,
41:06he's a really good passer
41:08for his position. Like, big men that
41:10can pass are quite valuable, because
41:12they're going to find themselves in
41:14advantageous spots around the dunker
41:16spot, defenses will collapse, can you
41:18make quick decisions on the short roll, stuff like
41:20that. I saw little signs,
41:22but again,
41:24it's a lot of
41:26wish-casting, it feels like, and that's
41:28okay. So, Kato,
41:30you know, if you play the game,
41:32how tall do you have to be before
41:34you personally, myself personally,
41:36before I am ready to make the NBA,
41:38Kato checks that box for me.
41:40Like, he's 7
41:42foot and super
41:44springy and strong.
41:46And the skill set that
41:48he's got, like, how many
41:50division 2
41:525 foot 9 guards
41:54would instantly be better than him.
41:56That's kind of like where I'm at on Kato, but lucky for
41:58Kato, he's 7 foot tall,
42:00so I'm very jealous.
42:02Yeah, with the passing,
42:04I don't know, it's like, do we really ask that
42:06of you? If you host a party and someone
42:08rocks up with a bunch of cheese, you're like,
42:10didn't really ask you to bring that, now I've got to
42:12find a cheese board, I've got to
42:14present it, I've got to serve it.
42:16This is now extra work for me, like, are we really
42:18going to be able to factor Kato's
42:20maybe passing ability
42:22into our overall team
42:24game and approach? Probably not, so I
42:26would rather him focus on bettering
42:28the skills that are asked of him.
42:30That said, you know, it was a lot of fun
42:32watching the Time Lord throw dimes,
42:34so if we can get something similar out of
42:36Namir's Kato, like, I'm a fan of the game,
42:38I'm a fan of the flourishes of
42:40aesthetic beauty, so yeah, I'm all
42:42for it, but I don't think it necessarily
42:44has much of an impact on the team long-term.
42:46Yeah, and like, he doesn't
42:48need to become, like, a Rob-level
42:50passer, but if he could make a
42:52decision on the short roll that's not
42:54the wrong one, like, that's
42:56what Luke's so good at, is like,
42:58it's not like he's passing dudes open on
43:00backdoor cuts, but he makes the right
43:02decision just about every time, and that
43:04is the next step for Kato.
43:06He might get there,
43:08I don't know, that's
43:10a pretty hard jump to make, I think,
43:12when you're, you know, a fairly
43:14unskilled, no offense Neimis,
43:16big man, so we'll see.
43:18Defense,
43:20you guys want to talk defense now?
43:22Yeah, let's do it. Okay, alright,
43:24Jake, you said it, he's slow-footed,
43:26drop center, you absolutely cannot
43:28switch with him, but I think the big thing about
43:30if you are a slow-footed drop center,
43:32you have to protect the rim. Kato
43:34actually had the second-best defensive field
43:36goal percentage, less than 10 feet
43:38on the team, way behind KP,
43:40but better than Luke
43:42Cornett, again, I think part of that is
43:44probably who he's playing against,
43:46and, you know,
43:48a lot of that's altered by
43:50garbage time, but still, like,
43:52he was a plus-
43:54ish rim protector
43:56in the minutes he played, which is all
43:58you can really ask of him.
44:00You know, he can only perform when he's
44:02playing, right?
44:04I am interested
44:06by what the Celtics coaching staff can do with
44:08Kato, because I do think
44:10if they can get him to play
44:12solid positionally, like,
44:14if you were able to transport
44:16Kelly Olenek's brain, defensive
44:18brain, into Neimis Kato's body,
44:20that would be a really good defender.
44:22Like, all Kato has to do is be
44:24sound positionally, not
44:26bite on pump fakes, and he'll be
44:28a completely competent
44:30rotation big man
44:32in the NBA. That's how big
44:34and athletic he is, because defensive
44:36rebounding-wise, as long as he's, like, not biting on
44:38pump fakes, and, like, going over late
44:40for blocks that he can't get, and putting himself
44:42out of defensive rebounding position,
44:44then I think he can be
44:46totally fine. So I am interested to see,
44:48like, as they did with Rob,
44:50and, again, that could be a reps thing.
44:52I kind of
44:54called him out for not playing a lot of minutes,
44:56and there being a lot of noise in his net rating, but part of it
44:58as well, he doesn't have a lot of reps in the
45:00NBA either. So, like,
45:02does he get a little more comfortable if he gets
45:04more reps? Then, yeah.
45:06I'm definitely, again, similar to
45:08Xavier Tillman shooting threes. No one would be
45:10happier to be proven
45:12wrong than me,
45:14if Kato comes out and turns into,
45:16you know, Clint Capella on defense.
45:18That'd be nice. Yeah.
45:20Yeah, it's the little things,
45:22and, like, can more playing time and the experience
45:24that comes from that, and with those little things,
45:26like you said, like, not biting on pump fakes, and just
45:28understanding, like, where to position yourself relative
45:30to the level of the screen. Can he be coached
45:32out of those little things to really improve?
45:34Synergy rates Nemi,
45:36like, really highly as a pick-and-roll man
45:38offensively. Defensively,
45:40he's just kind of average, 68th
45:42percentile on points-per-possession ranking,
45:44defending the big, and then that drops
45:46significantly, 39th percentile when he's
45:48forced to switch onto the ball-handle, which is, like, crazy
45:50low sample size, so whatever.
45:52But there are, like, small, fundamental
45:54aspects of the game that you would
45:56like to think almost anyone could be coached
45:58out of, and you add the extra
46:00playing time that he's going to get, and this, like, kind of leads to the
46:02next question. You add that extra playing time,
46:04and then, like, hopefully he can sort of
46:06lift himself, elevate himself
46:08out of that rut defensively.
46:10So it begs the question, like, where is he
46:12going to sit as far as the rotation is concerned
46:14going into this year, particularly
46:16in the pre-KP
46:18chunk of the calendar?
46:20I think he will
46:22play. He might play those 300
46:24minutes or more
46:26in this first stretch of the season when
46:28KP is out. I mean, he is, like,
46:30a legitimately good rebounder.
46:32Like, he led the team in offensive
46:34and defensive rebound percentage last
46:36year. So, like,
46:38I think that's important. Like, a backup
46:40big who can, like, kind of roll to the
46:42rim and clean up the glass
46:44and protect the rim a little bit
46:46is, like, a playable
46:48rotation, you know, like a low-end
46:50rotation big man.
46:52And, like, Horford's going to rest, whether KP
46:54is playing or not.
46:56Horford's going to rest, and then, you know,
46:58there's not... there's some
47:00matchups where I don't love Xavier
47:02Tillman. I think
47:04there's less of them than me
47:06not loving Nemus Keita.
47:08But there still are some matchups where
47:10I think it makes sense to just have...
47:12stay big with Cornette and
47:14Keita. So he's going to get some minutes, but
47:16he, I think, is clearly,
47:18clearly the fifth guy on the depth chart at
47:20center. Yeah. And I
47:22have said it before. I don't love loading
47:24Tillman up with minutes either. He's got his own
47:26injury history as well. Like,
47:28you know, when Horford's out,
47:30there's 48, you know,
47:32big man minutes. Do you just split 24
47:34for Tillman, 24 for Cornette?
47:36That's kind of a lot for
47:38a big man. Like, you know, so
47:40it would not surprise me if
47:42he's still playing six to
47:44eight minutes in those
47:46games as well. It's going to be really interesting
47:48to see. We know how much
47:50Joe loves Cornette. I think you
47:52can, like, bank Luke Cornette
47:54playing probably 20 minutes a
47:56night, I would say,
47:58for the first six months of the season. That's going to, you know,
48:00take into account Horford playing
48:02and him being out. And
48:04then, after that, we'll see. Because
48:06we were calling for Tillman a lot,
48:08and he obviously got his time to shine in the playoffs,
48:10but he didn't get a ton of minutes
48:12regular season or playoffs. So we'll see
48:14what happens with Katie here. But yeah, he's going
48:16to get a chance. He's going to get a chance.
48:18Is there any situation
48:20where you prefer Cater
48:22for a stretch of a game over Cornette?
48:24Is there any specific
48:26set of circumstances you can conjure in your mind?
48:28I can't. I was
48:30thinking Philly. The backup
48:32big man is Drummond, and he's
48:34such a good rebounder that, like, you know,
48:36you talk about the rebounding numbers. Maybe
48:38when he's getting killed on the boards,
48:40you chuck out, yeah, or the Knicks.
48:42Yeah, I'm less worried
48:44about them now without Hartenstein. But yeah, it's a great...
48:46You know that the
48:48strategy of the opposing team in the Knicks
48:50is going to be tilted towards offensive rebounds.
48:52So, like, if you're getting killed, yeah, great call.
48:54Maybe that... Maybe those are the
48:56spots. Like, the Houston Rockets were big
48:58offensive rebounders. Like, maybe that's
49:00a Cater spot. Maybe those sorts
49:02of teams, you get them in there.
49:04Yeah, I mean, Cornette, I feel
49:06like his rebounding improved
49:08after Jake called him out.
49:10That's right.
49:12Clearly, these guys read our tweets.
49:14But I still
49:16think rebounding is probably a
49:18weakness of Cornette's game,
49:20at least compared to some of his larger
49:22positives. And, you know,
49:24Cade is a different player. He's
49:26a more dangerous
49:28lob threat. So, I
49:30guess if teams are just
49:32kind of conceding that,
49:34you know, they're not sending that backside
49:36help, maybe you think, well, we'll
49:38get Nemi in there to
49:40just, like, catch lobs over the defense.
49:42Cornette can kind of do that, too.
49:44But I still think Cade gives you
49:46a little more dynamicism,
49:48if that's a word, on that pick and
49:50roll with his vertical spacing.
49:52So, I guess
49:54I say that to say
49:56there are very, very, very few
49:58circumstances where I'd prefer Cade to
50:00Cornette, but I suppose
50:02they exist somewhere.
50:04There is going to be a game out there
50:06where he will play better than Luke Cornette.
50:08Hey, man, Luke was almost
50:10out of the league. People were low on him,
50:12and he really found his way.
50:14There's a reality that exists,
50:16I think, where Cade
50:18really comes into his own and harnesses
50:20the tools at his disposal.
50:22But I'm not someone
50:24who thinks that's the reality we're going to be
50:26living in.
50:28Next week, the Sam Hauser
50:30deep dive episode. We talked about this yesterday
50:32during the Game 1 rewatch
50:34party, and Jake Eisenberg, definitely the catalyst
50:36for this. He is leading the charge, but
50:38we are all in on the Sam Hauser
50:40propaganda machine this year. We will
50:42be driving the Sam Hauser as one of the
50:44best backup wings in the league narrative
50:46all year. And that begins early next
50:48week on the Sam Hauser deep dive
50:50episode. So make sure you subscribe, preferably
50:52both on YouTube and your preferred
50:54podcast app. Spoonie, Jake, any
50:56final thoughts on anything we've discussed today
50:58before we wrap this one up? I'm very
51:00excited for the Sam Hauser deep dive.
51:02I mean, you can't give me all the
51:04credit. I mean, it starts with Ben calling
51:06Sam Hauser mellow, which only
51:08became more and more true.
51:10Yeah, I'm really excited
51:12and I'm very high on
51:14Hauser, especially now that he's
51:16locked up long term.
51:18I think we'll get into it, but
51:20his development is quite important for the
51:22future of this team. I'm going
51:24to come with a list of role players
51:26and I want you guys to tell me if
51:28Sam Hauser is better or worse
51:30than that specific role
51:32player that I present. I already know
51:34the answer to all of those.
51:36Absolutely.
51:38It's going to be a lot of fun. All right, folks, thank you so
51:40much for joining us. We really appreciate our audience.
51:42We love interacting with you, so please
51:44leave a comment, join the Discord, hit us up.
51:46Let's talk some Celts. Spoonie, Jake,
51:48love your work, guys. Until next time, go
51:50Celtics.