Why the Celtics sale might be more fraught than we thought w_ Josh Kosman _ Celtics Lab
When news initially broke about the potential sale of the Boston Celtics, fans were still elated over their favorite ball club finally winning Banner 18. We collectively scratched our heads, and then moved on with our celebratory mood still in full effect, not quite digging into the story behind the story when it came to the Grousbeck family electing to sell their crown jewel for estate planning purposes. The mission was accomplished, and it made sense.
But this week, more news came to light that there may be a financial aspect to Wyc Grousbeck and family choosing to sell their ownership share in the team -- and that there may have been internal dissent over that spending in the family based on reporting from the New York Post's Josh Kosman and Brian Lewis.
Intrigued by these details, the hosts of the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast linked up with Kosman to talk about what he's heard and what he thinks about it to get to the bottom of what we actually know about the sale -- and more importantly, how it could impact the Celtics and the NBA in the future. What we found was some potential for positive outcomes in the short-term, but also for a future at the Boston and league-wide level that is far less certain.
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But this week, more news came to light that there may be a financial aspect to Wyc Grousbeck and family choosing to sell their ownership share in the team -- and that there may have been internal dissent over that spending in the family based on reporting from the New York Post's Josh Kosman and Brian Lewis.
Intrigued by these details, the hosts of the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast linked up with Kosman to talk about what he's heard and what he thinks about it to get to the bottom of what we actually know about the sale -- and more importantly, how it could impact the Celtics and the NBA in the future. What we found was some potential for positive outcomes in the short-term, but also for a future at the Boston and league-wide level that is far less certain.
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SportsTranscript
00:00All righty, welcome to the Celtics Live podcast brought to you by Pricepix, the exclusive
00:13fantasy basketball partner of the CLNS Media Network, and by Game Time Tickets.
00:16Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed.
00:18I'm Cameron Tepitz-Bey, I am your host.
00:20I'm joined by Dr. Justin Quinn and Alex Goldberg, whose band, Divine Sweater, plays our intro
00:25music.
00:26They are on tour.
00:27If you liked those funky tunes, look up Divine Sweater, but respectfully, Alex, we're not
00:32here to talk about your band.
00:33We're here to talk about the sale of the Boston Celtics because a specific report from the
00:40New York Post, a really well-considered report from Josh Kossman and Brian Lewis, made waves
00:46over the weekend.
00:47They talked about what is going on with the Grousbeck family, what is going on with the
00:51sale of the Celtics, or so far, lack thereof, and we are lucky enough to go straight to
00:56the source, so we're going to welcome in from the New York Post, Josh Kossman.
00:59Josh, how are you?
01:00Welcome to the podcast.
01:01Thanks for having me, and glad to be here.
01:05So let me tell you the perspective from the Celtics' side of the street.
01:09I don't know how the national world is taking this, but I think everyone who roots for the
01:14Celtics heard the news, was very surprised in June that estate planning suddenly became
01:20so important to the Grousbeck family.
01:21But between reports from yours truly about the Fenway Group, from Jeff Bezos, it seemed
01:29like we were moving towards some angel investor is going to come in and save the day.
01:34And so this was the first time that we kind of got a look at the maybe drama is the right
01:39word, under the hood.
01:40I don't know if you would use that word.
01:42And so what I'd like to do is kind of walk everyone through your report if they haven't
01:47read it.
01:49But then see kind of what we can deduce.
01:52So the story goes that it's not Wick Grousbeck who is the principal owner here.
01:58It's his dad, Irving Grousbeck, who owns 20% of the team.
02:02Wick himself owns 3%.
02:04That means that the Grousbecks have a principal owner, or that that's how they get their governorship.
02:10And because owning the Boston Celtics is not a profitable enterprise, even when they win
02:15the title or nearly anyways, the Grousbecks are saying, look, we're going to have to pour
02:19$80 million into this next year.
02:22We're going to have to we're going to be on the hook for that money to say nothing of
02:25the bill that comes later.
02:26And Irving Grousbeck, the 90 year old father, is saying we're out of the game.
02:31Josh, anything I missed out of that summary?
02:34No, I think that's pretty much it.
02:36And I'm not sure the families in unison, but Irving controls the purse strings.
02:41So Irving owns about 20% of the team, Wick owns about three, the family together about
02:4630.
02:47But they control the team.
02:50And Irving didn't like Wick's free spending ways.
02:52Of course, it's great for fans.
02:54If I was a Celtics fan, I'd like it too.
02:58But from a dollar and cents perspective, it's not it's not great.
03:05Irving is rich by most people's standards, but he's not worth 20 billion and $80 million
03:11a year, which will only go up after next season, no matter how the Celtics do on the hardwood.
03:18He does not want to keep funding losses.
03:21That money hurts him.
03:23And he's putting an end to it.
03:25So it seems as though he and his son have hit a compromise.
03:30They're going to sell 51% of the team now, the remaining 49% at the end of 28, as long
03:36as the NBA commissioner agrees to that two tiered structure, which is likely but not
03:40a given yet.
03:43And what we wrote about, which hadn't been out there yet, is that there was a disagreement
03:48between Irving and his son, Wick.
03:51Wick wanted to keep running the team.
03:53That's consistent when you've seen the Grusbecks at conferences, you've probably seen them
03:57more than I have being in Boston.
04:00For years, they've been saying this team, including recently, that this team will be
04:04in the family forever.
04:05Clearly, Wick loves owning the Celtics.
04:12The explanation that they had given, and the story is well sourced about estate issues.
04:16Look, estate planning may be part of the equation.
04:19I'm not saying it's none of the equation, but it's not most of the reason they're for
04:23sale.
04:24That was one of my questions, because obviously, people are living a lot longer than they used
04:28to.
04:29But once you hit 90, you've got to start planning for that kind of stuff.
04:33You probably should have earlier than that, if we're being honest.
04:36So I'm wondering if there might actually be like what we're hearing being the story, but
04:42also because of the potential financial impact of both the estate tax hitting, I think it's
04:49like 16% once you get to their level.
04:53It could create kind of a financial nightmare for the Celtics if they don't do something.
04:57So I'm wondering if you know anything else about maybe that at all.
05:02Um, what I'm hearing from multiple sources, sources who know Wick, it's also because I
05:10heard it from enough places, including this will be vague enough, another NBA owner.
05:15I definitely believe that's not the driving force here.
05:18Now, I do not know estate planning.
05:20I'm not, you know, I don't report on estate planning, but I don't see why Irving couldn't
05:25just give at least their percentage of the team to Wick.
05:29Wick clearly loves running the team.
05:33But again, estate planning could be part of it, that's possible, but I don't think it's
05:38the main driver.
05:39OK, yeah, I mean, they bought the team for 360 or something like that in the early 2000s
05:45and they're in line, we'll get into this, to sell it for perhaps six billion dollars.
05:50So if you're Irving Grousbeck, you're cutting out your own payday.
05:55And if he, you know, wants to make good on that billion dollar, several billion dollar
06:00transaction, to Justin's point, with great respect, he has maybe limited time to reap
06:05the benefits of that sale.
06:09Uh oh.
06:11Yeah, no, but I do agree with Kim's point there.
06:15So I think, you know, one of the things that I've kind of always believed with regard to
06:20sports ownership, and I'm sure you can shed light on this, is that as as big a fan as
06:26you might be as of the team you're owning, and Wick Grousbeck is a huge fan of the
06:31Boston Celtics, I think that's very clear.
06:34But this is almost always going to be a value proposition.
06:38That's the main purpose.
06:40That's that's why these guys get into this.
06:42Billionaires don't spend huge sums of money on sports teams if they don't plan on
06:49recouping the investment on some level that you just it's too much money to spend.
06:56So that being said, you know, I think that that kind of aligns with what you're saying.
07:01But I guess it makes me wonder about kind of the future of the Celtics ownership going
07:07forward. You know, it seems like Irving and Wick are going to be kind of cashing out and
07:13selling to a potentially massive figure, as Cam alluded to, probably the biggest in NBA
07:19history. What I mean, just in your opinion, like who do you think is out there that has the
07:26kind of money to even make a purchase like that?
07:29And, you know, kind of thinking about what we were also just talking about, who is because
07:35if you're if you're buying a sports team, you want that to grow.
07:38You're not buying a sports team with the intent of scrapping all of the parts and like,
07:43you know, sending it into the basement.
07:44People don't do that for the most part.
07:47True. No, they don't.
07:48So given that the Celtics just won the title in dominant fashion and are already, I would
07:54say, the heavy favorite to at least go back to the finals in the Eastern Conference, what
07:59kind of person?
07:59People in New York who wouldn't necessarily agree with that.
08:02But as someone who is a Brooklyn resident, I spend plenty of time with those folks.
08:11But no, like who's who is out here trying to buy the Boston Celtics or might be trying to
08:15buy the Boston Celtics?
08:17And how can you how can you buy this team and improve on a dominant title winning 64
08:24win team if you're the new owner coming in, you know, trying to make big flashy moves
08:29like it feels like there's a very small list of people that can actually fit that criteria.
08:35Well, there is.
08:36And the Celtics certainly were dominant last season.
08:39The if you're a new owner, a few things monetarily you've got to take into account.
08:45The Celtics don't own TD Garden.
08:47The Celtics only make money off Celtics games.
08:50They also don't own their own network.
08:52You know, it's Comcast.
08:54So there's a real limited upside to how much money you can make from the Celtics.
08:59So a possibility for a new owner that they have to think about is building a new arena
09:05within Boston, not moving the team out of Boston.
09:08That won't happen.
09:09But could you see a team on the waterfront?
09:12Could you see an arena in Everett near the casino?
09:15Definitely.
09:16But that's another two billion dollars, assuming there's no appetite for public funding for
09:21a Celtics arena.
09:23So you're talking about spending, I think it's gonna be more like five billion.
09:26But who's to argue about billions, say five billion on the Celtics, two billion on the
09:32arena.
09:33That's a lot of money.
09:35So you need to be speaking about somebody who is not just a billionaire, but a mega
09:39billionaire.
09:41I also you just brought up something that I think is really important that hasn't really
09:45been mentioned as much as that.
09:47The NBA wants to expand and they want about a six billion dollar entry fee into the league,
09:53which if your marquee or one of the marquee, depending on your fandom, I suppose, franchises
10:00in the league cannot get the amount that a completely threadbare team that has literally
10:05no players and just a logo at the start, they can't get that for that.
10:10They're gonna have a really hard time getting what they want for these new teams.
10:13So I don't know if there's any connection.
10:16There hasn't been any reporting that I've seen on the league kind of pushing back expansion
10:20just a little bit further.
10:21We all kind of thought now the meteorite steel, like all that stuff being settled,
10:26like the next thing for the league to be to be dealing with would be expansion.
10:32And it's currently not per silver in a recent conversation in the offseason a couple weeks
10:38ago, I think.
10:39So I'm wondering, what are your thoughts on how all of this, like the valuation of a team
10:46at the height of its, shall we say, contention arc combined with the new CBA making it so
10:54expensive that we're not even sure how long that arc is going to last?
10:58How are these things all working together in your mind related to what we're seeing
11:03from the Grouse Becks and Celtics?
11:05Well, I think it's all connected.
11:06So if Fenway Sports were to buy the Celtics, now that's an if.
11:10Sailboats aren't even out yet.
11:12But of course, Fenway has Nessen.
11:14There are reasons to combine the Red Sox and the Celtics.
11:20You know, I'm not in Boston.
11:23I, you know, besides being a sports business reporter as a fan, I know the Red Sox fans
11:28don't seem thrilled with John Henry.
11:30But, you know, he has won you guys some titles.
11:34So, you know, would John, I've heard that John Henry is interested, but we're early.
11:40But if John Henry were to be a part, either a full, you know, he's the lead bidder or
11:48he's part of a consortium, well, that probably means LeBron, because LeBron is very connected
11:53to Cardinal and Fenway.
11:55Well, that means LeBron, who is the favorite to bring a franchise to Las Vegas with Live
12:01Nation in building a new arena, won't be doing it in Vegas.
12:04He'll be doing it in Boston.
12:06That's going to impact things.
12:08Certainly, and it's early.
12:11If what I'm hearing is the what people think will happen, but it is too early to know if
12:17a Bezos doesn't jump in and the Celtics sell for four to five billion, still a giant profit
12:23for the prospects.
12:24But that'll make it hard.
12:26You know, that would mean to me less for an expansion team.
12:31Because the Celtics lose so much money or will be losing so much money and you have
12:35a new arena and they're going to hit that second apron in a year or two.
12:42I, I find it difficult to believe they'll get six billion.
12:46But you know what?
12:47If Prince Alouide or somebody, I'm not hearing he's entered the auction.
12:51I'm just using him as an example.
12:53Someone like that wants to get a premier sports, American sports franchise.
12:58Maybe they pay six billion.
13:00I have asked sources who were close to the NBA office to silver.
13:04If a Middle East person comes up, show six billion.
13:08What do you think they do?
13:10And the answer I got back was, I think they'd be fine with it.
13:13Not a fund, but a person.
13:16So this will be a really interesting auction.
13:19I mean, there's, you know, how many top five NBA teams come up for sale?
13:23You know, not men, not often.
13:25You mentioned the, the, the wealth fund.
13:29I know right now there's a limit on how much NBA teams can be owned by a sovereign wealth fund.
13:35Could you just give the audience a little bit of an explanation beyond that?
13:39Sure.
13:39So the NBA does not want a private equity firm and private equity firms take minority
13:44stakes in teams or a wealth fund owning a team because then they'd have to answer
13:49to their own limited partners.
13:50So I think the cap for both is in the 10 to 15 percent range.
13:55I think for private equity, it's in the 15 percent range.
13:58But if it was an individual, you know, Mikhail Prokhorov, a Russian off the nets,
14:03you can argue that Joe Tsai is Chinese, though he would say he's Taiwanese and
14:08raised in San Diego, but he's clearly close to the Chinese government.
14:12He owns the nets.
14:14So we've had the precedent has already been set and the NBA is very global.
14:21So could a bazillionaire pop up from overseas that we're not thinking about?
14:26I think that's certainly a possibility.
14:28It's happened with Premier Soccer.
14:30Why couldn't it happen here?
14:32So I think that's a possibility amongst American buyers.
14:37I think I don't know.
14:38I want to be careful on what I'm pretty sure I know, like the grouse back,
14:43you know, inter-family conflict and what I'm just thinking.
14:47I'm thinking that Bezos is more interested in the Seattle basketball team
14:53or maybe the Blazers and not the Celtics.
14:55But I don't know.
14:56His name's been rumored.
14:57Obviously, he could pay six billion dollars.
15:00But of the crowd that typically looks to buy NBA teams, there will be interest,
15:07but not at six billion.
15:10It's super high to begin with.
15:12As we talked about, the Celtics have a very much of a ceiling on how much they can make at this point.
15:19And it's almost like the CBA's newest unintended effect might be related to
15:26this clouding the value of expansion teams unexpectedly.
15:31Yeah.
15:32And, you know, what Wick has done, which again, if you're a Celtics fan, great.
15:36You know, the NBA has set up a system really for the first time
15:40where it's meant for there not to be dynasties.
15:44So the only way you're supposed to have a dynasty, which likely is not going to happen,
15:48if you can just pick really well in the draft and like the Thunder sort of have done,
15:54if the Thunder won a title next season and then won another one or two,
15:57they could do it and make money.
15:59But it's meant to penalize teams who sign Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum,
16:05you know, Drew Holiday, Christoph Porzingis,
16:08and we'll just throw in Hauser and Derek White to boot and form a super team.
16:12Again, props to them for doing it.
16:14Wick has formed an amazing team and they may very well win another title or two.
16:20But that's the NBA doesn't really, the NBA wants parity.
16:24They don't want super teams.
16:26And right now, Wick is based to action and said, I don't care.
16:31You know, we'll incur all these penalties.
16:34That's nice to say when you own 3% of the team.
16:36Yeah.
16:38Yeah, we're not counting billionaires pinching their pennies here.
16:41And it seems like Wick isn't either.
16:44Josh, a couple of other things.
16:45I guess I would just add to that, that the report that the Celtics barely broke even
16:51is, I think, surprised a lot of people,
16:53but I would hazard most NBA teams in a given year are barely breaking even.
16:58That's correct.
17:00Right.
17:00So to Alex's point, really, you get in the game to sell the team down the line.
17:06I think, well, I think it matters the owner.
17:09Sure.
17:10You know, we just talked, or I think we talked,
17:12we mentioned Steve Ballmer and the Clippers, who is a bazillionaire, unlike Irvin.
17:17Ballmer just let Paul George go.
17:20Now he let him go because he didn't want to hit that second apron.
17:23He thought it would, now the Clippers didn't win the title last season either,
17:27but he didn't want to pay up for Paul George because he knew of how much it would cost him
17:32personally, financially, and arguably what it might cost the Clippers in the next few seasons
17:37and hitting that second apron.
17:39So not every owner, in fact, I would argue most owners do have an eye on the bottom line.
17:47And, you know, they've got to balance it.
17:49Also owners have egos.
17:51I mean, how many times have we seen in the last three months, the three months?
17:54Yeah, I guess it is.
17:55Wick holding the trophy, going to the Hamptons with it, going to this house with it.
17:59He probably goes to sleep with it.
18:01So, you know, Wick loves holding that trophy.
18:04Clearly he loves owning the Celtics.
18:06Clearly he's getting whatever, maybe his self-esteem or ego trip.
18:10I don't know him well enough from, you know, carrying that around everywhere.
18:14He's a fan.
18:15He's a real fan.
18:16Okay.
18:17Most NBA owners have an ego, are fans, and would love to hold that trophy.
18:22Um, but at the same time, most are aware of their finances.
18:28Most do not want to be funding losses.
18:30And when they are, when that starts to happen, they start to either trade players
18:36or do something to try to fix the situation.
18:39In this case, Irving did.
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19:34Yeah, I mean, we see teams.
19:36I think the New Orleans Pelicans, for example, have never paid the luxury tax.
19:41And Boston is set up to, oh, $80 million roughly next year
19:45and $200 million the following year.
19:47So if you are a buyer and come in, it's not like you can borrow from some bank
19:52or some international financer and kind of punt on your financial obligations.
19:56You have to pony up the money right away.
19:59I think that that coupled with the fact that you can't recuperate with gate necessarily
20:05because you don't own the building and this, that, and the other.
20:09Again, we're not crying crocodile tears for these owners.
20:12But I do have a question.
20:13So I talked to people related to the team, not the ownership, but other parts of the team.
20:19And they said the sale news, that breaking, they had no idea that that was coming.
20:25Do you get a sense that Wick knew that that was coming?
20:29Well, he'd been fighting with his dad.
20:31So he knows stuff none of us knew.
20:35But yes, I think, look, it's not the sourcing in the story.
20:39But I think the fact that people close to the Celtics were surprised,
20:44the fact that publicly they have been saying, including in recent years,
20:48this is staying in the family.
20:50And then this announcement tells me this is a lot more than a state planning.
20:55Yeah.
20:56I just wonder if Wick knew it was a one-year project and then something was going to change.
21:02Or if he...
21:03I'm not sure.
21:04Maybe he, this is me guessing, maybe he made a deal with his dad.
21:07It was after they announced the team was for sale
21:09that they re-signed Tatum for a giant amount of money, and Hauser, and Holiday.
21:15So maybe they reached some deal after the season, or at some point, like,
21:18OK, we're going to put up the team for sale, dad, all right.
21:21But of course, you'll let me keep the team intact, right?
21:24So we can win a couple more titles.
21:26So I assume it's been something that's been in the works for six months, nine months.
21:32Beyond that, I don't know.
21:33Maybe not.
21:34Sure.
21:35A few more things, then we'll get you out of here.
21:39We had Dan Primack from Axios on, and he's supposed...
21:43Maybe Pags, Pag Yuka, the other owner there,
21:48he'll be able to pony up the money and become the principal owner.
21:51But with respect to Pags' bank account, I don't know that he has that backing.
21:58What's the likelihood that this basically is just,
22:00they buy out the Groud Specs and it remains as the existing ownership group?
22:05I think it's possible, not likely.
22:08It's possible.
22:09Pags clearly wants to buy the team.
22:10Pags is not a bazillionaire either.
22:12He is a billionaire, but he's not worth $10 billion.
22:16He's worth less.
22:19So I think Pags would likely have to partner with someone.
22:23Also, Pags, and Pags clearly wants to own a team.
22:27He tried to buy the Nets four or five years ago while part of the Celtics ownership group.
22:32So Pags wants to own a team.
22:34So he's determined.
22:35He does no special relationship with Wick or Irving.
22:40If you've noticed in the pictures after the Celtics won the title,
22:43you don't see Pags and Wick holding the trophy.
22:47You see Wick holding the trophy every time.
22:50Pags owns about 22% of the team, much more than Wick,
22:54though he doesn't control the team like the Groud Specs do.
22:59So, I mean, I've talked to Pags directly about it.
23:03Pags says, I have a good relationship with Wick.
23:05So I should say that.
23:07I've heard differently.
23:08And I think there's a lot of evidence on the ground that it's a little different.
23:12So at the end, the Groud Specs will probably take the most money they can get.
23:17Also, Pags clearly would be a Celtics fan and would try to do the best for the team.
23:21I can buy that.
23:22But I think if they could choose someone else, that's a better option.
23:27It would go there.
23:28Also, if this was going to be kept in the family, they would have told Pags before.
23:32So we would have had time to line someone up
23:34and perhaps buy the team at market value.
23:37That didn't happen.
23:39And so just a quick follow to that.
23:41You know, it seems like the sale is at this point certainly going to go through.
23:46It's a matter of who and when, not if.
23:50Groud Specs have made that pretty clear.
23:52So the Celtics are kind of playing with this window where they've signed all of these guys
23:57to huge contracts, as you mentioned before.
24:00It's Jalen Brown.
24:01It's Jason Tatum.
24:02It's Drew Holliday.
24:03It's Derek White.
24:04To a lesser degree, Porzingis and Outlawford.
24:06I think those two might be a little bit more kind of fluid, so to speak.
24:10But it feels like at least those core four guys are in place, presumably for the next
24:16three to four years, kind of right as Tatum and Brown are hitting their primes and entering
24:21this period of their careers where they are going to be competing for championships
24:25pretty reliably, at least we think.
24:27What should Celtics fans expect as to how the sale will potentially impact the on-court
24:34product, if you had to guess?
24:37Well, for three or four years, maybe not much.
24:40I mean, for three or four seasons, you guys seem very locked in.
24:46And deep.
24:48What a great trade for Drew Holliday, looking at it a year in retrospect.
24:52Wow.
24:53So it would seem that the Celts are in pretty good shape.
24:57They've got everyone locked up, that's essential.
24:59So it would seem like the Celts are in really good shape.
25:03I think no matter the new owner, and that will matter in 10 years, the Celts will hit
25:09the second apron.
25:10So that'll mean few draft picks, very difficult to trade, to dump salary.
25:17So this is the team for the next four to five years.
25:20Certainly on the face of it, it seems like that's good news for Celtics fans.
25:23I mean, the team looks in very good shape.
25:27But if we're looking 10 years down the road, there's a reason the second apron's in
25:31place, as good as Brad Stevens is, and he is, and you guys also seem to have a very
25:37new head coach, or relatively new head coach.
25:40Still, when you don't have draft picks, and you can't dump salary, and players start
25:45to get older, you would think the Celts would go into a tough spot in five, six years down
25:51the road.
25:51But who knows?
25:53Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum are pretty special players.
25:55So maybe not.
25:58I love that.
25:59So Josh, I have two questions to get you out of here.
26:03The first, you said the books haven't really even been opened.
26:08What is your expected timeline for this?
26:12I would think they'd be distributed any day, literally.
26:15And by the way, here's the way it could impact Celtics fans.
26:18So right now, it's pretty expensive to go to a Celtics game anyway, even compared to
26:23the rest of the NBA.
26:25If a new stadium, if this becomes somebody's stadium, now, again, we're talking a few
26:32years down the road.
26:33But if you open a brand new spanking stadium in Everett next to the casino, expect those
26:38prices to go up.
26:39That's exactly what's happened in Golden State and would happen anywhere else.
26:42So that's how it might impact the fan.
26:45I think that at least for the next three or four years on the court, I don't see much
26:49difference, no matter who it is.
26:51But yeah, three or four years from now, would season tickets be more?
26:55You know, would regular game tickets be more?
26:58Yeah, I would think so if they build a new arena.
27:01And I think it's a little hard to see this happening without someone building a new arena.
27:05From what I've been told, Delaware North that owns the TD Garden has zero interest in selling.
27:10And to make money, you really need a new arena.
27:13And this is easy to say from a New Yorker.
27:17But being a little older than I think any of you guys look, I can remember when the
27:20Celtics never lost.
27:22Oh, I remember.
27:23I'm an old dude.
27:24I still look old.
27:24All right.
27:24All right.
27:25You know, when John Most would say, you know, man, Havlicek was hacked and he wasn't.
27:33And the Celts would win every game at the Garden in the playoffs.
27:36That's not true at TD Garden.
27:38They have the best team for sure.
27:40But it's not that kind of home advantage.
27:42It's not like moving the Sox from Fenway Park.
27:44You could move them from TD Garden, I think.
27:47You guys would know better than me.
27:47I think so too.
27:48Yeah, I will say I'm willing to go on record as I will pay $30 for a Miller Highlife at
27:55a Celtics game if it keeps this core together.
27:57That's fine.
28:00Yeah, we're all doing our part here.
28:02All right.
28:02Josh Kostman from the New York Post.
28:04I'll get you out of here with this last one.
28:06I take it you're a Knicks fan.
28:08What's your expectation for the Knicks?
28:12Don't assume, by the way.
28:13But yeah, what would be my expectation for the Knicks?
28:18Um, I think Bridges fits in really well.
28:21Um, you know, they all play together at Villanova, of course.
28:25Um, the question is, can Brunson stay healthy for the whole season?
28:30I mean, Brunson is so good.
28:32You know, he is really turned into a legit all-star who can lead that team.
28:37And they have size.
28:38I think Julius Randle is a really good player.
28:41They are a legit, really good team that is pretty deep.
28:44And I think can challenge the Celtics.
28:45In my view, for whatever matters, I'm sports business, not a prognosticator.
28:49But I think the Knicks are a better team than Philly, better team than Milwaukee.
28:52They are Boston's biggest challenge.
28:54But the question is, can Tibbs not burn everybody out in the season like he always did with the
29:00Bulls, like he has done a bit with the Knicks?
29:02Can he pace himself with this kind of team?
29:06And I think that picking up Bridges, long run, it might hurt the Knicks.
29:09It's a lot of packed picks they gave up.
29:11But short term, boy, I think he's much better than he was last season.
29:15He played in the Olympics.
29:17That burned him out.
29:18He played in the World Games.
29:19That burned him out.
29:21The Nets asked him to do things that he doesn't do.
29:24They asked him to play on ball, not off ball.
29:27He was their chief scorer and their chief defender.
29:30If he's your second or third option, he's a really good player.
29:35He's a really good complement to Brunson.
29:37So I think the Knicks are really strong.
29:39I think whenever they play in their first game, the 16th game of the season,
29:44I think the Knicks themselves are about even.
29:47The question is, when it comes to the second or round of the playoffs or the Eastern Finals,
29:53will the Knicks have enough in the tank?
29:55And I don't know.
29:56Tibbs' history would tell us no, but they're a deep team,
30:00and we'll see if he's learned from his experience.
30:02Maybe if they can get another big man at the deadline so that way he hasn't had a chance
30:06to run his legs into the ground, that could also help.
30:08Maybe, maybe.
30:12The Knicks fans, they're very excited.
30:15The Celtics are really, really strong.
30:19And it'll be interesting.
30:20Tatum was at the Olympics, Jalen Brown.
30:22So are the Celts going to be a little tired?
30:25Will they have the same kind of energy that they definitely did show last season?
30:30Derek White was an Olympian.
30:31So it'll be interesting to see.
30:35To me, the Knicks are their biggest challenge in the East.
30:40I'll believe Embiid can go full season when it happens.
30:43It hasn't happened.
30:46I think history is on your side on that one.
30:48All right, well, Josh Gossman, you wrote this piece that kind of blew a hole in
30:52a peaceful offseason for the Celtics.
30:54It's over on the New York Post.
30:56You wrote it with Brian Lewis.
30:58Thanks.
30:58This has been really, really insightful.
31:00I think this pieced together a lot of things that I either didn't know or think I thought I knew,
31:04and now I feel better about.
31:06So we thank you mightily for coming by.
31:09This was great.
31:09And hey, if news breaks, we'll bring you back on.
31:13All right, sounds good.
31:14Until then, good luck in the playoffs for those Knicks.
31:17Thanks very much.
31:19Thanks, Josh.
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32:33All right.
32:33Thanks again, Josh Kostman of the New York Post for,
32:37I think, a conversation where we just learned a lot.
32:41He made it clear that that was his reporting and his perspective,
32:44so let's use his caveat as we proceed.
32:49But it sounds like he expects it to be a $4 or $5 billion price tag,
32:54not a $6 billion price tag.
32:56And it doesn't seem like it's going to be PAGS hobbles it together.
33:00It seems like someone with pretty deep pockets is going to come in.
33:03His insistence that whoever comes in is going to want to build a stadium,
33:06pretty fascinating.
33:07I think that was the most resolute I've ever heard anyone suggest that.
33:13Yeah.
33:13Other things that you were like, whoa, I didn't know that from that.
33:16I just, it's like doing the mental math in my head of,
33:20all right, how the hell are they going to build a new stadium in Boston?
33:24Seems dreadful.
33:27Whoever the next mayor is,
33:29because I'm assuming it probably won't be mayor by the time this happens,
33:33but whoever the next mayor is,
33:34is going to have a bloodbath on their hands
33:38as far as making that happen or not making that happen.
33:42Zoning, location, the traffic is so bad as it is.
33:49That's going to get ugly.
33:51Yeah.
33:51Justin has several times said,
33:53hey, why don't you write a piece on where to put the stadium?
33:56Justin, the reason I haven't is I've always thought like,
33:58eh, it'll never happen.
33:58So I'm not going to waste my time.
34:00But now I need to start thinking about where train lines run
34:04in Eastern Massachusetts because, look again,
34:07Josh, I think would be the first to say that's his perspective
34:10based on what he has learned.
34:12That doesn't mean it's definitely going to happen,
34:14but there's an immediacy there.
34:16That's very interesting.
34:17Least of which that that means,
34:18even if the team sells for four or five billion,
34:21the owner needs to be really great access to cash.
34:26The suggestion that an international billionaire
34:28might come in is a fascinating one.
34:31This is pure conjecture.
34:33This is not reporting,
34:34but Jalen Brown has twice spent a summer with people in Bahrain.
34:38Specifically, I don't know the man's name,
34:40but the guy who runs sports in Bahrain
34:42and the Celtics have two preseason games in Abu Dhabi.
34:46There's a lot of money in that part of the world
34:48and people with funny money who could...
34:52The thing about Steve Ballmer is
34:53even though he didn't want to pay for Paul George,
34:55it's not like he was running out of money, right?
34:57No, it's just not throwing good money after bad, really.
35:00Right. The problem with the Celtics
35:02is they literally don't have the money to keep this together.
35:05Steve Ballmer just didn't want to pay for it.
35:07But there are...
35:08This is a crazy thing to say as a public school teacher.
35:10There's a difference between...
35:12Our friend Gary Goldman used to have that bit
35:14about how Donald Trump is barely a billionaire.
35:17And there are people who...
35:20Bill Gates is the world,
35:21the Bezos is of the world,
35:22the miscellaneous...
35:24Delaware North.
35:26They don't make enough money.
35:27They're primarily a hospitality company,
35:29not a sports company.
35:31And they literally don't have enough revenue to buy a team.
35:35Yeah, I think for more reasons than I realized,
35:38we're not rooting for local owners
35:40because local owners don't have the money to do...
35:44I don't know.
35:44Josh's suggestion that the Celtics
35:46don't have to worry about this for four or five years.
35:48I actually...
35:50It seems impossible that an owner comes in,
35:52buys the team,
35:53and then immediately tears down its championship core.
35:55Yeah.
35:56But they will be on the hook for $200 million cash.
35:59They'll use whatever excuse they can.
36:01But until that happens,
36:02which has to a point,
36:03it might become Jesus.
36:05Whoever owns the Celtics has to write...
36:07Again, you can't ask the bank to do it.
36:09You can't punt.
36:10You can't do it on credit.
36:11You have to write a check to the NBA.
36:13I don't know, the New York office, the caucus.
36:15I don't know.
36:16You have to write a check for your salary tax,
36:18and that's going to be hundreds of millions of dollars.
36:20So the existing ownership group
36:23or the future ownership group
36:24is on the hook for immediate payments,
36:27not just like, in theory,
36:29Grouse Specs, I owe you $5 million,
36:31but really Bank of America is going to pay it to you.
36:33You actually have to pony up that money.
36:35I do buy that, but it's just...
36:38Again, I know I made this point earlier,
36:40but people who buy sports teams
36:43do not buy sports teams
36:44with the intent of tearing them down.
36:46That's just never a thing that happens.
36:49Like, if you look at all of these guys,
36:51Ishbia, Steve Ballmers,
36:53like all of these guys getting it
36:55with the intent of inflating the value of the franchise
36:58and winning and proving how good they are at this.
37:00But isn't Ishbia a perfect counterfactual
37:02that he got in, got over his skis,
37:05and they're going to have to tear that down
37:06in the next 36 months?
37:08For sure, definitely.
37:09But he didn't intend to do that.
37:10That's just how it went down.
37:11Exactly.
37:12Wick did the meddling for him.
37:14Yeah.
37:14Yeah. No, I still don't buy it.
37:17Like, it might be the case
37:18that the new owner comes in
37:20and makes a big splashy move
37:22that blows up in their face.
37:23That would not be surprising to me.
37:26But what would be surprising to me
37:27is like salary dumping Jalen Brown.
37:30Particularly if they're going to build a new arena.
37:32I think if they're going to build a new arena...
37:34Like, why don't we just talk about the potential outcomes?
37:37Because if they're going to build a new arena,
37:39then they're going to want to keep that roster together
37:41for at least a season to get some butts in seats
37:43and to, you know, make it worth building an arena.
37:47Justin, you and I were talking about this last night.
37:49So let's do the doomsday scenario first.
37:52Okay.
37:52I personally don't think that this group
37:56is at risk of being broken up next season.
37:59But Justin, I get the sense that you think
38:01within the next 12 months,
38:03maybe major change is coming.
38:05Do you still feel that way?
38:06I wouldn't say the next 12 months,
38:08but like the next 24 months.
38:10I think that no matter what happens this current season
38:13and most likely, though potentially not,
38:15next season are probably safe, right?
38:19This upcoming season, the full calendar year,
38:21I think they're going to be fine.
38:23But after that, like going back
38:26to what we were talking about,
38:27like this made me super popular
38:29when I brought it up earlier this year
38:30in the chat with you guys,
38:32that like there is a potential doomsday scenario
38:35where...
38:36And I didn't even know all the details at that point
38:37that I know now.
38:38Now I think it's even more likely.
38:40I didn't think it was very likely then.
38:42But there's a scenario where
38:44they try to sell the team.
38:46PAGS can't come up with a partner
38:48that will pay what they want them to...
38:50The NBA is going to be pressuring
38:51the Celtics ownership group to pay.
38:52They're going to take whatever the best money
38:54they can get most likely, I would think,
38:56that the league will approve,
38:57which is an important caveat
38:59because they may not approve a sale
39:01to someone they think will not be a good steward.
39:03They have done that in the past.
39:04They will probably do it again in the future,
39:06whether it's with Boston or not.
39:08Yeah.
39:08That means that there could be a situation
39:12with the valuation of teams being depressed
39:15by a team at the top of its contention
39:18are trying to sell
39:19where it is really the least pot,
39:20potentially profitable version of the team could be.
39:24So we might end up into a situation
39:26where the sale drags on for longer than a few months,
39:29maybe even a full year, right?
39:31Before they find other people.
39:32What we're seeing with Minnesota and, you know,
39:34Portland is theoretically for sale,
39:36but no one has bought that team.
39:38Whole different story,
39:39but these things can go on for a long time.
39:41They don't always go super quick, right?
39:43And this is a very complicated situation.
39:46So in that particular situation,
39:48maybe the new owner buys the team at that point.
39:50They've had to let some people go
39:52because there literally is no money
39:53to pay these players, right?
39:55So they have to start making some of these trades,
39:57trimming where they can.
39:58Like we're looking now in our conversation
40:02that we haven't really spoken about here
40:05about the Lonnie Walker situation,
40:07maybe being a Jayden Springer replacement
40:10because 8 million bucks right there,
40:11that's 10% of what they're making this year.
40:14Go ahead.
40:15Let's put, hold on.
40:15I want to go back to that one
40:17because it's a specific dollar amount.
40:19I would just add to what you're identifying,
40:21say, you know, it's September of next year
40:24and the Celtics have absolutely no buyers.
40:27I could see a world where they proactively
40:29shed major salary to say,
40:31look, you're not on the hook
40:32for $200 million in salary cap.
40:33You're actually on the hook for 80 million.
40:36So as part of our doomsday scenario,
40:39either there just aren't interested parties
40:42and a cheaper buyer comes in
40:44and starts tearing it down
40:45by sheer financial practicality,
40:47or there's no buyers
40:49and this current ownership group
40:50starts to tear it down to make it a less,
40:53like almost underwater asset.
40:55I mean, it functionally is an underwater asset
40:56right now, I guess.
40:59More practically though,
41:01we seem to be in a situation
41:04where the Grousebacks aren't so flush with cash,
41:06but they might meaningfully
41:08try to trim that salary cap
41:11or in that tax bill.
41:13Alex, you uncovered the Lonnie Walker,
41:16Jaden Springer, $7 million loophole.
41:19Can you explain that?
41:20Yeah, so basically there is a world
41:24in which if the Boston Celtics
41:26trade Jaden Springer
41:27into a team's salary cap space
41:29and take nothing back.
41:30Hello, San Antonio Spurs.
41:32Spurs, Thunder, you know,
41:34any of these teams
41:35that are operating with cap space, basically.
41:37And do business with the Celtics.
41:38And do business with the Celtics, exactly.
41:41But they could effectively sign Lonnie Walker
41:43for a vet minimum
41:44and that would knock them further
41:47under the second apron,
41:49which would, it wouldn't get them
41:51exactly under the second apron,
41:53but it would severely help
41:56or severely, wrong word.
41:58Significantly.
41:59It would significantly help
42:00with their luxury tax payments
42:03going forward.
42:04And I think it's one of those things
42:06where, you know,
42:07you kind of see that move
42:09and I think you're probably going
42:11to start seeing more moves like that
42:13in the future,
42:14wherein the Celtics
42:17are going to be using
42:18the end of their roster spots.
42:20I think with those 14th, 15th, 13th guys,
42:23that almost everything
42:25that happens in those spots
42:26is going to be dictated
42:27by how can we save money at the margins?
42:30I would expect that
42:31you are going to start seeing
42:33second round picks
42:34are going to be occupying those spots.
42:37Guys who are on rookie salaries
42:38are going to be occupying those spots.
42:40Guys who have been out of the league
42:41and are coming back in on vet minimums
42:43are going to be occupying those spots.
42:46If you are looking at the end of the bench
42:48for the Celtics for the next
42:50two, three, four years,
42:52that's almost entirely going to be
42:53roster churn guys trying to save money.
42:56The challenging part is
42:59you can only do that for so long
43:01before those penalties
43:03really start to hurt.
43:04And then you have to start
43:05cutting into actual rotation guys
43:07who are going to be,
43:09you know, like Luke Cornett, Xavier Tillman,
43:13the kind of backups
43:14who are on one year deals right now.
43:17Let's say the Celtics go back to back
43:18and Luke Cornett and Xavier Tillman
43:20both play well in the absence
43:23of Christophe Zingas
43:24during the regular season
43:25and are meaningful parts
43:26of the championship run.
43:28Those guys are not going to be coming back.
43:31And then you're going to start
43:32eating into that rotation
43:33just a little bit more year after year.
43:35So here's the thing.
43:36So Cornett only makes two million dollars.
43:39Tillman makes 2.5.
43:41Once you're over the salary cap
43:43or whatever penalty range
43:45the Celtics are in,
43:47what is it, Justin?
43:484x for salary for tax?
43:50Don't quote me on the top of it,
43:51but yeah, I think it's something
43:53egregious like that.
43:54Whatever the old luxury tax was,
43:57it's considerably more.
43:59So let's use the number 4x
44:00just because it's easy.
44:02It might be higher.
44:03Alex, to your point,
44:03if they could get Lonnie Walker
44:05on that minimum,
44:06Springer makes 4 million.
44:07So say 16 million dollars
44:10worth of penalty versus 4 million.
44:12Whatever the math is,
44:13we think it's 7 or 8 million.
44:15I said this before.
44:16I'm increasingly thinking this.
44:17I think Pritchard is the casualty.
44:19He's slated to make 7 million next year,
44:217.7 the year after that,
44:22and 8 the year after that.
44:24And if you compound his salary
44:26into the tax,
44:28even cutting that saves
44:30tens of millions of dollars.
44:31And to your point,
44:32it's not the core,
44:34but it is quite a serious rotation.
44:37It's not a minor loss.
44:40And I think that's going to be
44:41the reality for championship contenders
44:43as it exists in the new CBA.
44:45It's very explicitly designed
44:47to make it so that
44:48if you try and keep
44:50super high salary players together
44:52for multiple years
44:54in the championship run,
44:55you are going to do so
44:56at the expense of your bench.
44:57You are going to have teams
44:59winding up like a Phoenix Suns
45:02or like a Denver Nuggets
45:04where these teams are just
45:06increasingly bleeding talent
45:08off of the bench
45:10to try and avoid those
45:11serious luxury tax penalties.
45:13And, you know,
45:14I think that's kind of been the case
45:16in a lot of scenarios prior.
45:18Like, it's not like this
45:19is a necessarily new thing
45:21in NBA history,
45:22particularly for bench guys.
45:24I imagine Peyton Pritchard
45:25probably wants to be a starter
45:26on a team someday.
45:27He is not going to get a chance
45:28to do that in all likelihood.
45:30So this is to some degree
45:32kind of the way
45:33that this has always worked.
45:35But it just goes to show
45:36that, like, as far as the core
45:38of the Celtics going forward
45:40is concerned for this title run
45:43and whatever comes beyond that,
45:45that core is going to be
45:46a smaller group of players
45:48than you think it is.
45:49Yeah, and to your point,
45:50the Phoenix Suns,
45:51the Milwaukee Bucks,
45:52they're already painted in a corner
45:55in a worse way than the Celtics.
45:56I mean, look at who's on their bench.
45:58Well, I was going to say
45:59the Nuggets and the Clippers
46:00already took the plunge
46:01and started shedding salary.
46:03So the Celtics are
46:03in this middle ground of
46:06the new CBA is coming for everyone.
46:08They're one of 10 teams
46:09that have financially overspent.
46:12Boston happened to be
46:12the team that won.
46:14You can imagine how upset
46:16we would be if the Celtics
46:18did not win the title this year.
46:19And then we're looking
46:20at this financial crunch.
46:22I want to get I get out of here
46:24in the next six or seven minutes.
46:25So let's in rapid succession,
46:27Justin says in the chat, he's sad.
46:28So let's do the best case scenario
46:31and then we'll we'll close
46:32with our what we expect to happen.
46:35I'll do my best case scenario.
46:37A super wealthy person
46:39comes in and balls out and says,
46:41I'm going to foot a $200 million bill
46:43for the Celtics.
46:44Look, the Graspix bought
46:45this thing for 360.
46:46They're going to sell for five billion.
46:48Dan Primack kind of slowed my roll
46:51when he was on a few weeks ago
46:53when I said, look,
46:54they'll sell this for 10 billion
46:56in 10 years, 15 years.
46:58And I know you have to be
47:00outrageously wealthy to do that math.
47:02But there are people out there
47:03that will say, hey,
47:05if we kind of tread water here,
47:07we're still going to cash out.
47:08The NBA is going to be hyper
47:10international in however
47:12many years time, like the money
47:13is still going to the moon.
47:14So, Justin, my best case scenario is
47:17maybe it's an owner
47:18with a complicated past
47:19and disagreeable politics,
47:21but guess what?
47:21That's every most billionaires,
47:24most of the people who are in line
47:25to buy a sports team.
47:27Someone could come in
47:28and they could have the money
47:30to keep this party going
47:32pretty considerably.
47:33If you'll recall,
47:34most of our time
47:36covering the Celtics,
47:36Justin and Alex, for that matter,
47:38the team has been cheap
47:40as shed talent to get
47:42under the luxury tax.
47:43Remember Ray Allen?
47:44So actually, we've never really
47:47operated as a team that spends money.
47:48And so a best case scenario
47:50is they become a team
47:51that operates as a money spending team.
47:53Justin, what's your best case scenario?
47:56My best case scenario
47:58is that the Celtics
47:59continue to have
48:00the operational advantage
48:01of a competent ownership group,
48:03which they've had through most,
48:04though not all,
48:06of their ownership history,
48:07as we were kind of hinting
48:08at with our guest today.
48:11It's been such, such a boon
48:14to Celtics fandom
48:15when the Celtics
48:15have had a good owner.
48:17I think it's possible again.
48:18I hope that PAGS at least
48:19remains involved
48:20because it's also clear
48:21that he is a Celtics fan.
48:24Whoever buys the team,
48:25I hope they are a Celtics fan.
48:26I hope they have deep pockets.
48:27I don't care where they come from.
48:28I don't care what their history is,
48:30as long as I don't have to root
48:32for anything owned by someone
48:34who is morally repugnant.
48:36That may be difficult to your point,
48:38but that's my best case scenario.
48:41Shout out to the Dallas Mavericks fans
48:43holding it down.
48:44Alex, what's your best case scenario?
48:46My best case scenario
48:47is that whoever comes in
48:49and there will be somebody
48:51and I don't know
48:52whether it's going to happen now
48:53or in the immediate future
48:55or in the long-term future,
48:56but whoever comes in
48:57is smart enough to know
49:00that they should let Brad Stevens
49:03run the team.
49:04That is the number one priority
49:06that I have for any new Celtics owner.
49:08They should keep Brad Stevens employed,
49:10give him a raise,
49:11let him do whatever he needs to do
49:14to run the team
49:15because as long as Brad Stevens
49:16is in charge
49:17and as long as Joe Mizzoula
49:19is the coach,
49:19the Celtics are going to be fine.
49:21As far as other stuff like that,
49:25I would really like it
49:26if this new owner,
49:27whoever they are,
49:28comes in knowing
49:30where their bread is buttered
49:31in that Jason Tatum
49:32and Jalen Brown are the core.
49:34No matter how many pieces
49:35you put around them,
49:37those guys should be in green
49:38for as long as you can
49:39possibly keep them in green.
49:42And so my most optimistic outcome
49:45is something along the lines
49:47of a Spurs-like,
49:49Golden State Warriors-like run
49:52where the team has an extended,
49:55I would say,
49:57five to eight year window
49:59in which they are in the mix
50:01and maybe that undergoes
50:03various permutations.
50:04Maybe they have a couple of down years
50:06thrown in there.
50:07Wouldn't be shocked if that happens.
50:10But with the kind of foundational pieces
50:12of Tatum and Brown
50:14remaining throughout
50:15that entire period.
50:16That is the ideal outcome.
50:18And then after Tatum and Brown
50:20are finished winning titles,
50:23we're going to be in
50:23for a world of hurt boys.
50:25But at that point,
50:26hopefully we'll have about
50:27I'll deal with it.
50:2822 banners to hang up and be fine.
50:31Yeah, I'm cool with that.
50:32All right.
50:33I'm just looking at billionaires
50:34to pick who I want to be the owner.
50:37Let's do this.
50:37I'm going to do post roll
50:38and then what we'll do
50:40as people who get to talk
50:42to smart people
50:42but do not have extra information,
50:45we're going to guess
50:46who's going to buy the team and when.
50:47So let me do my post roll first.
50:49Celtics.podcast brought to you
50:50by PrizePix,
50:51the exclusive fantasy basketball partner
50:52of the CLNS media network.
50:54And by game time tickets,
50:55last minute tickets,
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50:57If you use the CLNS promo code
50:59often enough, who knows?
51:00Maybe you can save up enough money
51:02to buy the Boston Celtics.
51:04Justin, when do you think
51:06this deal will go through?
51:08Just on feel.
51:10And do you have a name
51:12that you're thinking?
51:13I do.
51:13I think it's going to be close
51:16to the postseason
51:18at the end of this coming season,
51:19like sometime like March through June,
51:22somewhere in that general range.
51:23I don't think there's enough time
51:24to get it done before then.
51:26It might even be after that.
51:28And I think if I'm going to go with my gut,
51:31even though it's probably less probable
51:33than a lot of other suggestions
51:34that have been thrown around,
51:35there is this guy who tried to buy a team.
51:38It is currently being sold,
51:40though he's not a part of it.
51:42His name is Kevin Garnett
51:44and I think he would be a great person
51:46to link up with.
51:48That's not your best case scenario?
51:53He got a group together.
51:55He got a group together
51:55that got close to buying the Timberwolves
51:58and he got pushed out of the picture.
52:00So between the two of them,
52:03that is a group I think
52:04that the Celtics fans would be happy with.
52:06And I think that the NBA cognoscenti
52:10would be happy to see running the team as well.
52:13But I mean, we heard it too.
52:17Alex, when is the sale?
52:19And who's your buyer?
52:21I'm a little bit less optimistic
52:23that the buyer is going to be someone
52:25as cool as Kevin Garnett.
52:26That would be spectacular.
52:28I can dream this.
52:30I think the sale is going to be tough.
52:32I think it's going to take a long time.
52:34I think it could potentially
52:35take up to a year or two.
52:38And I think there's going to be
52:40a lot of buyers.
52:41But I think to Josh's point earlier,
52:44the price point is going to scare
52:45a lot of people off.
52:46There's a few people who could
52:48take that burden on.
52:50One of them does have some Boston connections
52:54and I think would potentially resonate
52:57a great deal with the current head coach
52:59of the Boston Celtics
53:01due to his shared love of martial arts.
53:04Give me Mark Zuckerberg,
53:05Boston Celtics owner in 2027 or 28 or so.
53:10I don't love it,
53:11but he's one of the only guys
53:12that has the pockets deep enough
53:13to actually do it.
53:15And he loves UFC stuff
53:17just like Joe Mizzoula.
53:19And I think the Cambridge connection
53:21will be enough to put Zuck over the top.
53:26Wow, those are emotionally
53:28two different answers.
53:31Yeah, I'm slightly more realistic.
53:34I think this soon happens sooner
53:36rather than later, just because
53:38the Dallas Mavericks sale happened really fast
53:40and you have a motivated buyer.
53:43I wanted to ask Josh this.
53:45I wonder if dropping interest rates
53:46makes it easier for billionaires
53:48to borrow money.
53:51I don't like this answer,
53:53but I think Wynn Resorts,
53:56the people who own the Encore Casino
53:58are going to buy the team
54:00and they're going to put the Celtics
54:01in a casino slash arena in Everett
54:05or East Boston by the 2020s.
54:07And I'm biting my tongue
54:09because thanks again for PrizePix
54:10for sponsoring this podcast.
54:13All right, Alex's band Divine Sweater,
54:15they're on tour, check them out.
54:16Apparently don't go to the website.
54:18That's sort of the bad information.
54:19No, the information is completely good
54:21outside of one show in New York.
54:24Okay, so if you're in New York,
54:27you already know where to go.
54:28Everyone else go to Divine Sweaters,
54:30many web pages and social media accounts.
54:33Otherwise, like and subscribe.
54:35Otherwise, like and subscribe
54:37to never miss an episode of this podcast.
54:39And next week,
54:41unless some crazy shit goes down,
54:43we're going to be talking about Media Day
54:44because Media Day is right around the corner
54:47and be on the lookout for some news from Cameron.
54:51Okay, I'll catch you later.
54:52Au revoir.
55:05Bye.