With some time to soak it all in, we are just beginning to have had enough context to begin to place the Boston Celtics' 2024 NBA Championship in its proper place in terms of history. What will we remember about it in five, 10, or twenty years? Which were flashbulb moments along the path to Banner 18? Which will quickly be forgotten?
And most importantly, just how special is this title in light of the 17 that came before it? To take a look at the winning of Banner 18 and its historical context, the hosts of the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast linked up with the Boston Globe's Chad Finn to talk all things Celtics history. Finn will soon have a new book out that details all of the best moments in the history of the storied franchise through the pens of Globe reporters, from its founding to the most recent title, making him the ideal interlocutor for this mission.
We also get caught up on the trickle of news still percolating up at this late hour in the 2024 NBA offseason, from the Lonnie Walker IV signing to Jayson Tatum's China trip with Jordan Brand and more.
****************************************************
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Take the guesswork out of buying MLB tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply.
And most importantly, just how special is this title in light of the 17 that came before it? To take a look at the winning of Banner 18 and its historical context, the hosts of the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast linked up with the Boston Globe's Chad Finn to talk all things Celtics history. Finn will soon have a new book out that details all of the best moments in the history of the storied franchise through the pens of Globe reporters, from its founding to the most recent title, making him the ideal interlocutor for this mission.
We also get caught up on the trickle of news still percolating up at this late hour in the 2024 NBA offseason, from the Lonnie Walker IV signing to Jayson Tatum's China trip with Jordan Brand and more.
****************************************************
CLNS Media is Powered by:
Prize Picks - https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/CLNS
Download the app today and use Code CLNS at PrizePicks.com/CLNS & Get $50 instantly when you play $5!
Gametime - https://gametime.co
Take the guesswork out of buying MLB tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply.
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SportsTranscript
00:00Alrighty, welcome to the podcast brought to you by price picks the exclusive fantasy basketball
00:13partner of the CNS media network. And by game time tickets, less than tickets, lowest price
00:18guaranteed. I'm Cameron Tubbs by I'm joined by Dr. Justin Quinn. We're gonna do a little
00:22bit of the news. But really what today is about is talking to our friend Chad Finn of
00:26the Boston Globe about his new book just coming out October 8. The Boston Globe's the story of
00:31the Celtics 1946 to the present the inside stories and acclaimed reporting on the NBA's
00:35banner franchise. So welcome back to the podcast, Chad. Chad, what's up? Hey, thanks for having me
00:40on. Nice to talk to you guys. Yeah, happy summer. Any highlights? Um, there was a parade in Boston
00:48that was pretty fun. If you're talking sports wise, but no, just you know, my kids are my son's
00:54going into his senior year and my daughter's in college. So it's just nice to have them home for
01:00a few months. Nice to have her home for a few months before we get ready to send him off next
01:05year. Yeah, no, I think you know, I'm a high school teacher during the day. So we're I was
01:11less than planning right before we hopped on. So we're back. multitasking. Where'd you Where'd you
01:17watch the parade? Did you get on a boat? No, Gary Washburn did for us. So I let's see I was I got
01:28there super early and was one of the first people in the garden which was so cool. Yeah, I don't
01:35know if you've seen the the end of the all access series where Joe's in there by himself after the
01:42with his wife and talking about looking up at the banners. I was in there. There were a couple of
01:48camera people and one other media person that were there when I got there. So I kind of had that same
01:52feeling that they just kind of looking around enjoying the quiet of the place and anticipating
01:59you know, the period ahead. So I was there and then when the parade actually happened, I watched
02:04from the deck at TD garden and just kind of wrote a column about what it was like, you know, the the
02:10pre event stuff that they did.
02:13That's just a snapshot of experience. Because I spent the moments before that preview event. So for
02:22anyone who doesn't know before the parade, to like a collection of VIP guests, and then I don't know,
02:28just like people work for the team. There was kind of a celebration moment. Yes, gal did a q&a, the
02:33players in the court and I spent the whole beforehand wringing my hands about like, could you
02:37get on a duck boat? Like, what if we don't catch the train? What do we do? So I did not have like a
02:42nice stoic reflective moment. I was kind of panicked that morning. But it was watching it.
02:48They carved out that little section for us. That was really special. I've lived in Boston my whole
02:53life. I've actually never done a championship parade. No, I never skipped school for them.
03:00My I think I care about sports a little more than my parents do. So I was shocked at how affecting it
03:06was, if we're being perfectly honest, I was a real highlight. But we're gonna talk about a lot of
03:10affecting memory. So let's we'll show that for a sec. Because Chad, there's actual news we didn't
03:16plan this, obviously, but the Celtics signed Lonnie Walker, it's an exhibit 10 day, as Sean's
03:23reported. And what that means is, it is not a ticket to the roster guaranteed for Mr. Walker the
03:30fourth, but it has a chance he has a chance to make the big boy roster. And there's some actually,
03:36Justin, can I lean on you to explain why he gets a little bonus for if he ends up in Maine?
03:43The basic idea of that is just to incentivize players to not go to other clubs, usually in
03:48Europe, but overseas, generally speaking, this particular situation is gonna be a little bit
03:53different, because the idea is normally to shuttle them to the main Celtics in the G League. But I
03:59don't think that Walker is going to be having any could conceivably, if there's just nowhere for him
04:04to go. But I don't think that's the plan.
04:07Alright, so Chad, I'll swing to you. Do you think Lonnie Walker makes the big boy team?
04:12I think so. I mean, he's so overqualified for that spot, right? We've seen guys have have kind of a
04:20tough time finding deals this offseason if they're not even end of the bench guys, but serviceable
04:26players. Look at O'Shea Brissett right now, he doesn't have anything lined up. He may need to go to
04:31Europe to make a little bit of money after opting out of what, I think he had some like 2.8 million
04:37with the Celtics that he opted out of somewhere, somewhere on that range. I love the Walker move. I
04:42love it for a lot of reasons. He's tight with Derek White, they played together with the Spurs, he
04:46was in Derek's wedding. So he's got somebody very trustworthy vouching for him with the Celtics. I
04:53think pot probably is vouched for him too with Brad. We know they're close. This is guys produced in the
05:00playoffs, which usually isn't an exhibit 10 guy. You saw what he did for the Lakers. Two years ago, he
05:06averaged 10, almost 10 points a game for a bad Nets team last year, but shot 38% from three. You watch a
05:12little bit of his highlights, you know, he cooked drew a couple of times when they when they played
05:16them. So and nobody cooks drew. So I love it. I think it's a great move. I think Walker's betting on
05:23himself. The Celtics get a established NBA player basically for nothing. Brad had said that he was
05:30going to keep that 15 spot open and bring a couple exhibit eyes into camp. But I don't think he
05:39anticipated getting having the chance to get a player of this quality on that deal. I have to
05:45believe he's pretty close to a lock to make the team.
05:49Yeah, I, I find myself surprised that they didn't bring in a bigger guy just between Orford and Chris
05:55steps using that spot for someone who just like soak up minutes down low. I mean, maybe they really
06:01liked this out of Tatum playing big, maybe they have real ambition for Cornett. The Walker thing. This is
06:10this probably is unlikely, but if you can sign them for half of what you have Peyton Pritchard on right
06:16now, Peyton Pritchard like probably does have a first round pick value out there. And for saving
06:23four x and tax. I don't think this is the beginning of the end for the Peyton Pritchard experience in
06:27Boston, but it's curious that they didn't, you know, go find injury insurance for their older players.
06:32They went and found a redundant piece for probably their most sturdy spot in the court. Seems like
06:39Lonnie walks good guy at times been like an absolute flamethrower from three. He's also been decidedly
06:45average from three. If he can defend. Yeah, I think he is super overqualified if he can't defend. I'm
06:52not really sure what happens next. It's such an interesting dilemma for middle class and lower
06:59middle class players. There's not money right now for them. Yeah. Which stinks because I feel like
07:05even a few years ago, we felt like this was a really great system for players like Lonnie Walker to get
07:11paid and stay in the league. And now it's like O'Shea presets, another good example, or even Evan
07:16Fournier. I'm a little, I don't know what he's going to get paid in Greece, but I'm kind of shocked.
07:22Not a ton. Yeah. Because like 4 million.
07:25Yeah. And there's so much money right now in the league, you would think guy like Evan Fournier wasn't
07:30great in the Olympics, but he, you know, he's still a qualified player. I don't know. So that was also
07:37our agenda to mention that former Celtic. I saw Evan in, when I was in Paris, just on the street and I
07:43said, Hey, I cover the Celtics. I don't know if you remember me. And I think once I said, I cover the
07:47Celtics, he was like, hi. But good for Evan. I mean, we like guys getting paid. Happy Labor Day,
07:55everyone. All right. What else is on our news agenda? So Chad, you're a Rhode Island guy. So
08:01actually, you can add a little texture here. Joe Mazula is going to be honored at the Rhode Island
08:05Statehouse. Yeah, I know you're up in Maine, but it's all this Maine. Who do you think is the proudest
08:10state in New England? Proudest state? Not Connecticut. Well, that's a good question. Yeah. First
08:18elimination. If you talk to us about pizza being in Connecticut, we'll get up in arms about that, but
08:25we're not too proud about anything else. Probably it's I mean, it's got to be Massachusetts, right? Don't
08:31think. You know, New Hampshire does its own thing. I lived there for nine years, and that's a different
08:38kind of place. The license plate says it all. But I guess everybody's got it in their own way. But you
08:46know, Boston's got the arrogance of its sports teams, at least for 20 years of the Patriots and Celtics
08:53history and all that. And I think that big part of part of the fabric of the confidence of
08:59Massachusetts, I think you'd call it. Yeah, and they have the like the big bad brother. I don't know. I
09:06think people from Vermont are very proud, but they're, they're happy for you to be proud to I think people
09:11from Maine are super proud, but they're more relaxed. Like you said, New Hampshire is New Hampshire. The
09:15reason I bring it up is I think people from Rhode Island are super proud to be from Rhode Island. And
09:21they're honoring Joe Mazula at the Statehouse tomorrow, tomorrow, big Tuesday. Pags will be there,
09:27Hilary O'Brien will be there. So yeah, just as three people who represent New England, that feels like a
09:33special little moment. I think we covered in good balance. Hey, a reasonable hometown kid just won the
09:42Celtics banner 18. But I'm glad that party is still still going.
09:47Can you believe how close the season is? I mean, what are we 50 days away? Something like that, right?
09:54I mean, media day is three weeks from Tuesday.
09:59Is that when it is?
10:02The Nuggets and the Celtics have it early because then they're going to Abu Dhabi. So they're two days before
10:06everyone else. Oh, yeah, right. All right.
10:10Did not align with the Jewish holiday this year, so I will not be attending.
10:14No media day.
10:15My regards. No, no. Not worth cutting class. All right, a couple other bits of news and then we'll get into
10:21the book. Jason Tatum is on tour with Jordan Brand in China. He was in Shanghai. He was on the Great Wall.
10:27He's in Beijing. Luka Doncic, Zion Williamson and Paolo Bancara are also out there. The news there is really
10:36that he's previewing the Jason Tatum threes as new shoes, which Jordan Brand has confirmed will be out
10:42globally in October. But they're soft launching in China. I'm going to tease that I'm working on a story
10:48about this, but I will say that Jordan Brand was really proud that they could soft launch in China. They said
10:53that really says something about where basketball is globally and where Jordan Brand is globally. So good for
11:01them for now. The photos have been great. Jason seems like he's having fun. And I like the shoes. I don't know,
11:07Chad, if you're a sneaker head, if you have an opinion on the shoes, but they look great. I think if you were
11:14comparing the Jason Tatum ones, the twos and the threes, they're my favorite. And I'm not blowing smoke. Are you a
11:20sneaker head of any description, Chad?
11:22My sister, my sister, my daughter is. So she's always showing me whenever the new ones came out. Although the first
11:28one she really fell in love with were one of the Kyrie's when he was here, which were on sale not that long after. But
11:36seems like Tatum's have really progressed. Like the first ones weren't very attractive, that Tatum twos were really
11:43cool. And it sounds like these are even better.
11:46Yeah, the first ones were very angular, like a lot of triangles and stuff. And the second and the third iteration are
11:52much rounder. A lot of people are saying they look like the old Reebok shoes in the 90s, which I take as a
11:58compliment. Like, um, Shaq's trademark
12:01Shaq Gnosis. Yeah, yeah, I saw that as well. That actually does vibe with me for that particular
12:06comparison. I had some of those. Yeah.
12:08Which incidentally, way before Jason Tatum's time, but hey, it lands.
12:14Everything cycles back, right?
12:16Yeah. So be on the lookout for those shoes in October, but also maybe stick with Celtics Wire for some more
12:22reporting on that. Speaking of which, Justin, you went on a business trip that had some hiccups. I'm glad you went.
12:29Do you want to tell us?
12:30Boy, were there some hiccups. They were handled very, very well by the hotel. I got there and there was some issues
12:37with my reservation, which, you know, flying in from Mexico City to Boston and getting there at midnight with an
12:428am interview scheduled. I was a little freaked out, but everything went very well. It was really nice to see the
12:51Boston Press Corps from, you know, below the neck. Usually that's all I see. And it was a pretty cool event. It's
12:58covered pretty heavily, so I won't go into it too deep here. But it was the first all gold restaurant I've ever seen.
13:05And I got a chance to talk a little bit with David Ortiz and drew a holiday, which was also fun.
13:11Yeah. Now, Chad, I think you have outgrown the promotional beat reporting events. Correct me if I'm wrong. Do you
13:19have any from back in the day that struck a chord?
13:23No, I don't really do those because they tend to fall either to our beat writer or like Nicole Yang used to do them a lot
13:30when she was covering the Celtics and it really helped her build great relationships with the people of the Celtics
13:36where, you know, she would end up getting stories first because she showed up for everything. You know, Marcus is
13:41bowling and, you know, this sort of thing with Drew and, you know, that Ortiz did have done and like the one Al did.
13:49But yeah, I haven't done a whole lot. Heather Walker used to pitch a lot to me because, you know, my angle is a little
13:58bit more from the media side if I'm not writing straight basketball columns. So if there was something, you know, a
14:07partnership or things like that that they had, I would hear from the late great Heather on those quite a bit. And
14:13sometimes, you know, I'd write about them. But usually somebody else falls into their domain of what they do.
14:21Yeah, I happen to live in that domain right now. But it's it's really fun. Justin, I'm glad you went because usually you
14:30get the email and I'm the boots on the ground. So this was a good role reversal because yeah, it's not we're not breaking
14:38news or changing anyone's worldview with day drew holiday partner with Cain's chicken by Cain's. But they're really fun
14:46for someone who gets to, you know, meet David Ortiz, for example, even if it's in the purview of, hey, isn't the sauce
14:53delicious? I mean, it's still David Ortiz, right?
14:56It's good way to get to know people. I mean, yeah, it definitely how to build those connections. You know, when you're
15:01covering a team is to go to these things where, you know, maybe, you know, maybe some other people don't go to them. And I
15:09think a lot of cases, you'll find the players of their, their agents or reps or family members will be appreciative of that.
15:17Oh, yeah. It's funny to say that the family members, the Hauser family and the Cornette family are some of the most
15:24talkative people I've ever met. And I've only met them because of events like this. And now when you see them at the
15:29garden, it's like running into an old friend. Yeah, that the self express core is bloated, and the young people are hungry. So
15:39it's hard to get to be the only person at one of these events, but it certainly helps. All right, a little bit more news. And
15:46then we'll really hop into the things this Netflix series with Jason Tatum, Jimmy Butler, and Edwards, Ron James and
15:53DeMonte Sabonis finally set to premiere also in October. I think we knew that was happening. cameras, all sorts of different
16:01cameras were around the season. So we knew that a bunch of different programs are coming out. Chad, have you sat for a documentary
16:08series?
16:10To be interviewed for it? Yeah. Yeah, a couple along the way. I did one for tease, actually. I don't think I've done one for Celtics. I
16:19wasn't interviewed for this. HBO Max one that's coming up that Bill Simmons is part of. I know they've talked to like Bob Ryan
16:28and a lot of people like that. But I'm fascinated to see what that one is. Because I've heard mixed things about whether how
16:35much of it's a look back at this past season and how much of it's a look at Celtics history. I've been told it's more Celtics
16:41history, but I'm curious if they lean more into last season because of how it played out. And because of the access they had. I
16:49mean, you mentioned those cameras, a lot of those were for for that program. And I think it's going to be exceptional. I think it's
16:56nine parts. The one with the Netflix one with the five players is a five. Yeah. You know, when they've done things like that
17:09before, like they do the quarterback series with the NFL, the receivers now, but they did the quarterbacks one last year. And some
17:19end up getting more attention than others. Like I remember the quarterbacks one, like Mahomes was in it, obviously gets a lot of
17:26attention. Kirk Cousins was all over it. And then, you know, Marcus Mariota kind of fell to the background when he stopped playing. I'm
17:34curious how this takes shape because obviously they're going to give a ton of attention to LeBron. I think they have to give a ton of
17:40attention to Tatum because of the way the season went and just the incredible arc of his story, not over his career, finally winning a
17:48championship and him and Jalen getting that one together, but just the way the season played out that to me, obviously we're biased
17:57here in Boston about what's interesting, but to me, that's the most interesting possible angle information footage that they could have for
18:04this thing is how the Celtics season evolved and became a championship team.
18:11Yeah. And I found that Jason is, he's much more interesting and charming and clever than I think sometimes he gets credit for. And then
18:19sometimes he's, he's very polished at giving answers. So sometimes when he doesn't want to flex his personality, he gives a perfect non
18:26answer. But when he does feel vulnerable or pissed off or whatever, I think he gives great soundbites. I'd like to see more of that side of
18:36him. I know the cameras were there deep, I think even shooting in the finals.
18:40So I think you put your finger on something. There's all this debate over like, does he have aura and all like this just general, like he's a
18:50boring star. And sometimes I wonder if he's just a little too buttoned up.
18:55Yeah. I have some takes maybe off camera about that or what other people's opinions might be about that. But I, again, Chad, I mean, I don't
19:06profess to know the guy, but just being in the room, sometimes the way he says stuff actually has more personality than it gets really clipped in a
19:13video or certainly ends up in print. I feel bad. I think Jimmy Butler was a good pick for whoever came up with the series. And then they, he was, you
19:22know, they don't have that much playoff footage of the Miami Heat this season.
19:25Yeah. He didn't play that much either. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tatum, I think he gets too much grief, whether it's the orist nonsense that he's had to
19:36deal with this offseason or the perception that he's boring, because he gives you a window into him, his thinking, his personality, what's on his
19:48mind often enough, I think. And I think we realized he's a really mature guy for his age. He's a good dad. He's talked about honestly, you know,
20:01when Deuce's mom became pregnant, how he felt at that time and how he kind of approached that. And it's incredibly thoughtful and kind of
20:14inspiring the way he talked about it. I mean, clearly he's a good man with a strong family base and is probably mature beyond his years, but because he
20:23doesn't give conventional media much of a peek into who he really is. I thought he did a little bit more of it this year, but over the course of his time
20:32here, he really hasn't done a lot. It it's given us perception that he's like, I don't know, dull, I guess, or not a not a thoughtful guy. And I think we've
20:46got enough evidence that he he actually really is. He's just selective about when he opens up.
20:52Yeah, he's he's on the record saying he's a shy guy. I mean, that doesn't play well if you're a celebrity. And if you're going up against Edwards and LeBron
20:59James, it might feel a little different. But yeah, I think I think everyone needs to just like take a beat on having opinions about people they've never met on the
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21:57prize picks. It's guaranteed bonus no strings attached. So run your game with prize picks. Okay, back to the program. I just have to say that was the cleanest ad read
22:05I've ever done. I that was my flu game. That was smooth, man. I was impressed. Yeah, it's I listened to podcasts at 1.5 speed so much I think at 1.5 speed. So I'm like getting bored
22:19hearing myself slowly read an ad. Like, there are times I'll meet someone who covers the NBA and I know them predominantly through their podcast. And you'll be talking to them in
22:30person. I'm like, why are you speaking so slow?
22:33Same thought, actually.
22:35So anyways, good job out of me. And how'd you like that? Drake may line? It's pretty good, right?
22:42Poor kid, he's gonna get clobbered. I'm not a huge football aficionado. So I don't really know. But it seems like he's in for a long season. Anyways, Chad, the book is called the
22:52Boston Globe story of the Celtics 1946 to present the inside stories and acclaimed reporting on the NBA's banner franchise. It's out online and in stores October 8. It's available now for pre order. What's your elevator pitch for the book?
23:08That was that was smooth to that was a smooth read elevator pitch for the book. I'll show you the book too. It's right here. Oh, I have four copies. They sent me five and give one to a family member. So I'm down to four. Hopefully
23:20they'll send me more. But yeah, it's the Boston Globes history of covering the Celtics. So every significant moment that's happened in Celtics history from the beginning in 1946 through the confetti that fell back in June is covered in there. And I think people know that the globe has had a collection of the best basketball writers there have ever been Bob Ryan, Jackie
23:50McMullan. So much of this book is Lee Montville's writing Dan Shaughnessy is a beat writer during the 80s, left during the 86 season, which he wrote a book about to go cover the the Red Sox and on and on even back into history. So you have Bill Russell coming to the Celtics, you have what the reception to that was you have
24:17the 70s Celtics teams that are kind of overlooked, even though they went to championships and just how great have a check in Cowans were and how Barbara Ryan wrote about them as a beat writer at the time. And then biggest chapter in the book is the 80s, not only because of the the Lakers rivalry and the big three and Larry Bird, but the quality of the writing was breathtaking with Bob and Montville, and Dan and Jackie, the hardest thing I had to do for this book
24:47was figure out which story to use when two or three of them wrote on the same subject, because they were exceptional. And you can really be redundant with it. It was awfully tempting to so like when Larry Bird retired, we had a special section on Larry Bird retiring. Everybody wrote about it. And I can't put 10 Larry Bird retiring stories into a book. It's it's finite, you know, but so that was the challenge and the joy all at the same time was
25:17figuring out which of the you know, we have, I think we have about 400 stories total 375 stories total, which ones to use when exceptional writers were writing on the same topic at the same time.
25:30Yeah, I'm not blowing smoke when I say this. I think I work alongside really talented people on the Southeast beat, but the globe is still the gold standard. Adam and Gary and then Chad, you and everyone else who has a hand in it. It just it's still a cut above I maybe I'm in this position because I really like newspaper writing and I like long form storytelling and careful storytelling, but
25:54it's not just that you guys have the best access. It's still kicked so much ass. And there's so many talented people. Again, I'm not flattering Chad and have my fingers crossed. I really mean that. So that must have been so rewarding. I mean, so Justin is a PhD of anthropology and
26:13I was just going to say the globe is so fascinating to me in their coverage because it's as close as we get to basketball ethnography.
26:22Yeah, we love a good archive and on this podcast. Oh, man. Yeah. Talk us through a little more like what's a what's a story you found that was surprising that you you can't believe isn't in the zeitgeist or common knowledge.
26:35Oh, wow. Common knowledge. I mean so much of this because they've won so many championships. A lot of the space was dedicated to those or to the build up through the playoffs.
26:47I think like for an example, you like go back to 1981 playoffs and they have this epic series against the Sixers. They come back from down 3-1 in the series. They're just brawls. The last three victories and I used all the stories from that series rather than like this.
27:06Usually I'd use the story that wrapped up the series and but that that was just such an epic and the writing was so good that I felt like that whole story of that Sixers series needed to be told in full and that's obviously they go on to win the title beat Houston for the title and that's, you know, Larry's coming out party is an NBA champion.
27:30To me that was that was a special occasion. One of the things that really I don't know just it was cool to see. I don't know how to put it but how Russell was covered when he signed with Celtics from from going through the Olympics, you know, winning being just dominant player winning championships all that at San Francisco going to Olympics winning the gold medal, which delayed his start with the Celtics.
27:56And then he gets here and I use three or four stories from the first couple of days when he was with the Celtics because it kind of went from this Bill Russell signing with the Celtics to how good will Russell actually be to holy crap Russell's unbelievable, you know, like in a span of a couple of days to is Russell changing the game already and it was just even to take that little time machine back into I was kind of concerned about.
28:26How the Celtics and Bill Russell might have been written about in Boston at that time and instead it it was it went from knowing how great he was but being a little skeptical that he was going to translate to the NBA right away to being totally blown away about how awesome this guy is and he's changing the game on the defensive end and you know, this is this was in a matter of a week of coverage.
28:50So it was really cool to see that and but to me to me still that the 80s were the are probably the heart of the book just because like I said before, I think that's probably the prime area for a lot of people who buy the book who are really just love Larry Bird love that era grew up in it.
29:13They're in their 50s like I am and it was a special time for them, but also just because you read some of the stories in there when the most maybe the most heartbreaking story in the book also might be the best and it's Jackie McMullin's remembrance of covering Reggie Lewis at Northeastern.
29:31Yeah, the day after he died because she had you talk earlier about building relationships.
29:36She covered him in college.
29:37She got to know him and his family.
29:39And so when he tragically passed away in summer in 1993, she knew his story.
29:47She knew him.
29:48She knew who he was.
29:49And she wrote an absolutely beautiful heartbreaking column that, you know, was right on right up there with the best things in the book.
29:58That column is hard to read.
29:59Even now.
30:00Yeah.
30:01You remember it.
30:02Have you seen it recently?
30:03Yeah.
30:04Yeah.
30:05Yeah.
30:06The you know, you asked me to like what one of the things that jumped out is kind of a quirky story was when Dave Cowens retired during the 78 season, he was driving a cab in Boston for a little while.
30:17And so one of our reporters, Alton Richmond, went out and found him and got his cab that night and wrote a column about riding in the cab with Dave Cowens, which is a fantastic story.
30:32And then maybe my favorite Montville story in the whole book is he writes this really kind of ethereal column on Larry Bird's statue.
30:43The wood statue was 92, 93, somewhere on there, and writes it about how, you know, that statue never cracks, never shows any signs of aging.
30:56And, you know, if only it could have been the same for Larry, though.
30:59Basically, it was a point.
31:00But just incredible.
31:01I don't know even how he thought of that, let alone wrote it.
31:06Yeah.
31:07Good writing turns the world.
31:08I mean, sports are silly, but it's still like whether it's Reggie Lewis or even just Larry Bird meant so much to so many people, getting it right is the best.
31:19I want to ask a little bit more about the 90s and 2000s.
31:23What did you think about the coverage of the team, however many years removed, were a little more gentle with how we cover sports?
31:31Like, were we forgiving?
31:32Was the globe forgiving of Patino, of a young Paul Pierce?
31:36What was that coverage like?
31:38Yeah, that's interesting.
31:39I mean, the beat writers at that time for us were Shira Springer quite a bit.
31:43Michael Hawley was a Celtics beat writer for a while.
31:46I remember, the story's not in the book, but Michael had a big scoop about, I think it was the 97 season where there was a big brawl in the locker room after, at the end of the season.
31:57It might have been, no, not 97.
32:00It was earlier than that.
32:01But it was like 93, 94, somewhere around there when Todd Day and just these, you know, the dismal transition after McHale and Bird got old and Parrish moved on.
32:13And, you know, they weren't equipped to compete again for a while.
32:18And Michael did a really nice job in that era.
32:20And Shira was a relentless reporter herself.
32:25In terms of how they were covered and whether there was any, you know, pullback on covering them and, you know, being aggressive or whatever.
32:38I think Patino got, Rick Patino got what he deserved from the media.
32:44People were very skeptical of him after being very positive when he got here.
32:49Bob Ryan, and this is in the book, Bob Ryan wrote a very positive column about Patino being hired because he had had success in New York relatively.
33:01You know, he played his fast-paced, fast-breaking style and had Ewing in the back end.
33:06And it kind of worked a little bit.
33:08And he comes here and turns out the high point is his first game when they beat the Champion Bulls.
33:16And it seemed like it's going to work.
33:18And basically, it was all downhill.
33:20He just didn't have the patience to build a team and had the ego to, you know, take away Red's president title and things like that.
33:27But people figured Rick Patino out pretty quickly, even though he had built up a lot of goodwill here from his time at Providence, his time at BU, and his immense success in college.
33:39I think he got a lot of rope and used it up really quickly.
33:43And then into the 2000s, I mean, they were just kind of an overachiever at the beginning.
33:53You know, getting to the East Finals with the Pierce-Twan team and then a step shorter the next year, getting wiped out by New Jersey.
34:03But those teams were treated like overachievers.
34:06And then 2006, they were brutal and had, what, a 19-game losing streak.
34:13And there was all the talk about Paul Pierce maybe getting traded.
34:16I know there were people, Jackie McMullen, one of them, who thought they should have traded him and wrote that.
34:22And it's so funny.
34:24I didn't include this story in the book either.
34:28But, you know, Bob Ryan was very skeptical of the Garnett and Ray Allen acquisitions because he loved them as players, obviously.
34:37But he didn't think they had enough.
34:38Rondo was unproven.
34:40Perk was unproven.
34:42And it didn't seem like they had a bench because they didn't sign James Posey yet.
34:45And Eddie House had bounced around the league.
34:49But, you know, that team did not take long for people to realize what a juggernaut they were.
34:54And I think that shows up in the writing pretty early in that season too.
34:59I remember being upset about trade-away Al Jefferson for a few months.
35:06Well, Shearer reported that Jefferson wasn't part of the trade, which just, you know, Shearer did a great job on the beat.
35:13But that made no sense.
35:14You weren't going to make a trade with McHale in Minnesota and get Kevin Garnett without giving up Al Jefferson.
35:21He was, I mean, we all know it.
35:23He was the appealing piece just as the Lakers wanted KG.
35:27And Andrew Bynum was the appealing piece.
35:29And McHale liked Jefferson better.
35:32You know, and probably Danny Ainge helped.
35:35You know, the friendship with Danny Ainge probably helped a little bit there too.
35:38But, yeah, you weren't getting KG without Al Jefferson.
35:42I think we all liked the potential that he had.
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36:59Al had a great career, but I'm pretty happy that trade went through, if we're being honest.
37:04Worked out okay.
37:05I think so.
37:06I think so.
37:07Speaking of which, I'll go on the record.
37:09Around this time last year, I wrote—I don't really write quote-unquote columns.
37:14It's not really in my purview.
37:16But I wrote what could only be described as a column saying,
37:19The Celtics should not trade Drew Holiday.
37:21And I think the title was, No, the Celtics shouldn't trade for Drew Holiday.
37:25And I got that one pretty loud wrong.
37:27So, while we're on the subject of historical records—
37:30It happens.
37:31But, Chad, we're wondering—
37:33What was your reasoning?
37:34You didn't want to move Rob?
37:36I didn't want to move—
37:37I thought the two-for-one of Rob and Brogdon didn't allow for enough depth.
37:42I was pretty low on Richard and the rest of the bench.
37:45And the financial corner they would paint themselves in,
37:49I didn't realize 10 other teams were going to do that.
37:51So, I also underestimated, I guess, the ownership's capacity to pay into the tax.
37:57But also, Drew Holiday was better than I think I could have possibly imagined.
38:02I mean, I knew he played with some serious stones.
38:06But, whoa, was this a successful first season in Boston.
38:09You've got to watch him every game.
38:11He's one of those guys.
38:13You know he's good.
38:14You know he's a good player.
38:15But you watch him every game, and you're like,
38:17I don't want this guy ever to leave my team.
38:19Yep.
38:21We'll see.
38:23The back end of that contract, he will be older, and it will be expensive.
38:26But winning means you never have to say you're sorry.
38:29Speaking of looking at the present with rose-colored glasses,
38:33Chad, you're with two historians of some description.
38:36Let's think through what from 2004 is going to be everlasting,
38:41that in 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, someone writes a similar book.
38:46What are the stories that you get pulled from the 2014?
38:50So, first and foremost, I guess I'm curious,
38:53when do you hit send to your editor,
38:55and how much of the 2024 season makes it into the book?
38:59We set aside a couple of pages for in case they won.
39:05So, it's the epilogue, but it was sitting there blank.
39:09It's a hell of an epilogue.
39:10It is, yeah.
39:11It's just one story and a little write-up that I did kind of talking about how it went.
39:15But that fits the structure of the book,
39:18where we're not spending, you know, 20 pages on a single season.
39:22It's the best stories from that season telling the narrative Celtics history.
39:27So, you go back to 86, you know, it's 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 stories from that season,
39:33and then the big championship stories.
39:35So, this kind of, you know, I would have liked to have had more, you know,
39:43being able to maybe do a separate story on the Indiana series and Drew Steele
39:47and some of the highlight plays that came along the way,
39:50or maybe, you know, a couple more feature stories plugged in there.
39:54But it covers, it's Adam's game story from them winning.
39:59And, you know, you mentioned the Globe writers.
40:02I don't think there's anybody better than Adam that's covering an NBA beat right now,
40:07is a, you know, fundamental NBA beat writer for a print newspaper and website.
40:13And his story was fantastic.
40:15So, that's what we used.
40:17And then, like, a celebration photo.
40:19And it perfectly fits the structure of the book where you're just going through this timeline
40:26with the best Globe stories about every single important thing that's happened in Celtics history.
40:31But to actually answer your question, what are the takeaways?
40:34That's, in some sense, you kind of have to see how the next couple of years go.
40:42But as, you know, as I'm always telling my daughter,
40:46who just, you know, she loves this team more than anybody I know.
40:51We just dropped her back off at college yesterday,
40:54and my IG DMs are full of Derek White and Drew holiday content from her.
41:00No matter what happens, you always have this.
41:04You go back to 2008, and everybody remembers that team so well as they should and loves KG.
41:12And his number's not even retired in Minnesota, right?
41:14But it is here.
41:16And, you know, you see Paul Pierce, and you're happy to see him every time.
41:20And, you know, they had some really big disappointments after that.
41:24They probably win in 2009 if KG stays healthy.
41:282010, they should have won.
41:30They blew a lead late in Game 7 against the Lakers with Kobe having a terrible game.
41:37So even if there are a few frustrations ahead, and I'm not sure there will be the next couple of years,
41:44but even if they are, you're going to remember everything that happened this year fondly.
41:50It's the same with 86, or the 81 Celtics, or, you know, if the 76 team was your favorite.
41:58You can always go back to that, and it's always going to be special.
42:01And nobody's ever going to be able to take that away from you as a fan.
42:05Yeah, I mean, there's a whole generation, I guess, people your daughter's age, my student's age,
42:09or people who, you know, got to the basketball party late who hadn't seen the Celtics win a title their entire life.
42:16So all the history, all the banners, you know, when you go to see Fly Jet Blue,
42:19and you see all of the banners lined up at the security at the airport, it's not as real as actually seeing your team win.
42:26So to have that for my students, for people like your daughter, was really special.
42:29I mean, I found it to be really special. I've never covered a championship, but it's still not quite the same, like, touchstone.
42:38So with that said, I actually, the history teacher in me absolutely adores the answer of,
42:45it's actually the future that will tell us more about the past than what we can decide right now.
42:51That's probably the most intellectually honest answer, but shelving all of that.
42:56Dr. Justin cooked up a bunch of moments, but I'm curious, like, what's a moment for you that just, like,
43:03really lives in your head as it, like, encapsulates the thrill of the season or the trials and tribulations?
43:10Like, what are just some of the moments that jump off the page for you?
43:13And hopefully, presumably, the globe writing matches in kind.
43:18Well, there's a bunch, because we've gone back and re-watched the end of pretty much every playoff game.
43:24The end of the last, you know, like, seven minutes of some of those Indiana games where they were down,
43:30and all of a sudden they flip the switch and pull it out.
43:35I think from the Celtics' big picture standpoint, it's horror for getting a title,
43:42because I've always said Al is the kind of player who would have fit in on any great team in Celtics' history
43:48in any era that he was allowed to play in.
43:52Just a total team guy, selfless.
43:54We saw at the start of the year when they had their meeting, and he said,
43:58I'll come off the bench when they really, you know, they had six starters, more or less,
44:01and somebody was going to have to make that sacrifice.
44:03And Al took that problem and just erased it.
44:07And I had that assignment on the night they clinched game five to write about Horford if they won,
44:12so that was really cool to be able to do that.
44:16In specific plays, the one that I've watched more than anything,
44:20and the moment I've watched more than anything, is a holiday steal against Indiana when he picks Nembhardt,
44:26just poking it away with his left hand.
44:29Nembhardt's going full steam. He's having a really good series.
44:33He's playing with a ton of confidence, and Drew stumbles a little bit,
44:36and then just pops that ball away left-handed.
44:40I had written earlier in the season, I'm wrong about a lot of things,
44:44but I'd written earlier in the season about holiday just a throwaway line.
44:47Don't you feel like he's going to steal a playoff game for them at some point?
44:51And that's exactly what happened.
44:53So that's the little moment.
44:56In our household, Derek White's the most popular player.
44:59Yeah, I think a lot of houses are like that.
45:01Yeah, the billion things Derek did along the way,
45:04from knocking down the three to finish off Indiana,
45:08to losing his tooth against Dallas,
45:11and diving on the court and having Lively land on him.
45:15There'll be a lot of little memories from Derek White.
45:18Everybody around the NBA recognizes he's more than a role player.
45:22Dr. Quinn, do you have a few that, either in your heart of hearts, you're overemphasizing,
45:29or you just think, for the historical record, are going to be more important?
45:34For the historical record, I think, honestly, this is kind of the opposite.
45:39I think it's something we need to try to remember,
45:42is the role of Kristaps Porzingis in the postseason,
45:50how he somehow missed the bulk, really, of the postseason.
45:55But when he showed up on the court in the finals, ready to play,
46:01and people knew he was going into the game,
46:04for me, that was the moment where any lingering hopes that Dallas had—
46:08and I know the whole series was ahead of us, and we didn't know what was going to happen at that point.
46:11But for me, that was the moment they realized,
46:13we are overmatched, and this is not going to go the way we thought it might go.
46:17Yeah, that first quarter was—
46:20the highlight package of that really is a special—
46:23that's one of those things where if you're someone who has kids or chooses to have kids,
46:26like, hey, just watch this distilled moment.
46:29It's going to really set the stage for what we experience.
46:32Yeah, there were times like the equivalent of that for me, Justin,
46:35is the games they won by 50-something in the regular season.
46:38And we had some naysayers.
46:41The Pritchard three in game five.
46:44Oh, well, I was going to come around to that.
46:46That's the cherry on the top there.
46:49You know what I mean?
46:51I'm not some sort of basketball bully pulpit,
46:55but there were people who were saying,
46:57I don't know if this is going to coalesce, I don't know if it's going to fit,
47:00I don't know if they can stay healthy.
47:02And when they started beating teams by 50-55 in the regular season,
47:05when I found myself clicking,
47:08what's the biggest lead the Celtics have ever won by,
47:11and the links are purple because I've already had to look that up that season.
47:14That was when I was like, yeah, this is—
47:16Similar to 2008, where you're like, damn, this is real,
47:18like something real is happening.
47:21I was sitting with Bobby Kravitzky from SI when Pritchard hit that three-pointer
47:27in game five, and they went on whatever it was,
47:29like a 12-3 run to recapture the lead and some,
47:32and it felt like, yeah, okay, they're really in control here.
47:35And that was just—
47:38sports aren't special and there's no divine will or anything,
47:42but it felt like one of those, oh, yep, it's going to happen.
47:45And for the second half of the game, I don't think I wrote anything smart.
47:50I think I just kept writing and deleting things.
47:53The energy in the building, I can cover the team without bias,
47:58but I was quite excited for what was about to happen.
48:02Chad, one or two more, and then we'll call it quits.
48:04Any other moments from the regular season or the playoffs?
48:07One thing I'll add just for texture.
48:09After they lost in Dallas by what was a historical margin,
48:13when they were just like, yeah, we lost, it's all right,
48:16that felt symbolic of, yep, they're older than they were last year.
48:22They're not phased. They've got it.
48:24I felt really—I asked some good questions that didn't get really any answers
48:29because they weren't really giving answers at that point anymore,
48:31but it was reassuring that they're cool and calm in the pocket.
48:36But, yeah, Chad, any other moments on or off the court, regular season,
48:39preseason, postseason that you think—
48:42either are non sequiturs and worth mentioning
48:45or part of the story when someone really tells the story?
48:49Yeah, I mean, you mentioned Porzingis, and Game 1 was electrifying,
48:53and coming back and playing in Game 5 with a really serious injury,
48:57he wasn't effective.
48:59I mean, they were cooking him defensively, but in terms of inspiration,
49:02that was real.
49:04You mentioned the Pritchard shot.
49:07That's the loudest I've ever heard the building.
49:09I don't know about you, but I was up on the ninth floor,
49:12and the sound was incredible, just the response to that.
49:17It was like people anticipated him making it, too,
49:19because they've seen him make it so many times.
49:22The thing in the big picture thing with this team that—
49:27there are two of them that I think you take away.
49:30It's that Jalen and Jason recognized who they needed to be.
49:34When you mentioned the Dallas blowout,
49:38neither one of them said, all right, now I've got to take it over.
49:41They recognized that they could do their thing within the concept of team
49:47and still playing team basketball, and when they didn't get carried away there
49:53and fall into ISO mode too much—you know, they still did a little bit,
49:58but they recognized they broke a lot of bad habits
50:03or set aside a lot of bad habits this year.
50:06I happen to think that's the Drew Holliday-Derek White effect
50:09and that they trusted their teammates more than they have in the past.
50:12The other thing was that Porzingis and Jalen Brown played so well together
50:18because I wasn't sure how that was going to work.
50:20I had no idea Porzingis was this kind of personality
50:26where he would be so appreciative of playing in Boston
50:29because you knew how it went for him in Dallas with Luca.
50:32He was basically persona non grata in the NBA in Washington.
50:35Nobody pays attention to them.
50:37He's a phenom of the Knicks, but the injury derailed that,
50:42so I was anticipating a guy who came in here might be worried a little bit
50:45about how many shot attempts he got.
50:47Jalen was a guy who would go a little isolation a little too often
50:52and didn't have a great handle, and I wondered whether those two would mesh.
50:57Then, of course, they end up carpooling to the games together sometimes
51:00and end up being great friends and playing really well together on the court.
51:04I never saw this. Maybe it happened.
51:07I never saw a second of frustration out of Porzingis when Jalen or Jason
51:11would take a step back three or something like that when he felt like he was open.
51:15He was just 99.9% of the time he was just absolutely thrilled to be a part of this team.
51:23Yeah, I guess we'll wrap up.
51:25I think Joe Mazzola, it was so clear he understood how to talk to his team this year
51:32in a way that he just didn't have in the same capacity the year before
51:37for lots of different reasons, but he's an important part of the story too.
51:42I thought he—I'm chasing a story.
51:45The Celtics don't know this yet, but I'm chasing a story with Mazzola
51:48and his leadership because I talked to him about being a teacher after they won,
51:52and just his ability to communicate what they needed to know
51:58and also to give them the latitude to be themselves was really special, I think.
52:03Chad, I guess last question, what is the title of the 2024 section of the book?
52:08Or does it just say epilogue? They won.
52:10Epilogue.
52:12The stories in the book, they have the headlines from what ran in the newspaper that day.
52:21Way back here in the back, it's epilogue and then whatever the—Cigar Time, which was the—
52:30Oh, hell yeah.
52:31I'll hold it up here.
52:32But that's the headline on Adam's game story after they won,
52:38so it was the big splash headline on the front page of the sports section as well the next day.
52:45Yeah, it's kind of interesting.
52:47We weren't allowed to do a quick hit kind of book.
52:51A lot of people put out books after they won the championship.
52:54We've done them for everything, too, going back to the 0-1 Patriots,
52:57and we couldn't do it because the contract to do this book wouldn't allow us to.
53:04So we could have done one more focused on the season, but we didn't.
53:09Actually, Gary Washburn has a book out that may have more from this season.
53:15I haven't seen a copy yet, but this book is the history of the Celtics,
53:19as told through the Globe's writing at the time.
53:24Yeah, and I think I'm on the younger end of people who can actually appreciate that and feel that,
53:31but anyone who's a little bit younger, when people say the Boston Celtics—
53:35I mean, the Boston Globe sports section was the gold standard of sports reporting.
53:39Again, I'm not blowing smoke, and that's not an opinion.
53:41That's just a historical fact, it seems to be.
53:45If you're a fan of sports history, the Celtics' history, this is the book for you.
53:51There's no one who cataloged it better, and it seems like, Chad,
53:54you cataloged the catalog better than anyone else did, so congrats to you.
53:59I love archives, too, guys.
54:02Our researcher, Gerry Mannion, is exceptional.
54:06I mentioned the acknowledgments in the book, but I would go back to him constantly saying,
54:11just one more story. Can you see if we have when they got Danny Ainge from the Blue Jays?
54:17Inevitably, 10 minutes later, I'd have a great story.
54:20I have three options for a story on it.
54:24I knew what to find. He knew where to find it.
54:30It's a privilege to work with somebody who's so good at finding and researching like he is.
54:36Cool. I like that note. Let's end on that note.
54:40The book is out on October 8th.
54:43Yes, sir.
54:45The Boston Globe's story of the Celtics, 1946 to present,
54:47the inside stories and acclaimed reporting on the NBA's banner franchise
54:51by Chad Finn of the Boston Globe.
54:53The Celtics' podcast is brought to you by PrizePix,
54:55the exclusive fantasy basketball partner of the CMS Media Network,
54:57and by Game Time Tickets.
54:58Last-minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed.
55:01Chad, like I said, I won't be at Media Day, but I hope to see you soon.
55:04Are you going to Abu Dhabi, any chance?
55:06I am not going to Abu Dhabi.
55:08I've got a lot of Patriots responsibilities right now,
55:11but I'll be doing a lot of Celtics once the season begins.
55:15What's the most hopeful thing you can say about the Patriots?
55:18I think they got the quarterback.
55:22It may just look the part in preseason.
55:26They need to obviously get him some weapons
55:29and figure out how to protect him once he plays.
55:31But, you know, the hardest thing to find in football
55:34is the guy who can be your franchise quarterback,
55:36and I think he has a potential to be that.
55:39All right.
55:40Well, perfect place to end the Celtics Lab podcast.
55:42Good luck to you, Drake May.
55:44Chad, I hope to see you soon, but if not, thanks for coming by.
55:47Thanks, everyone, for listening.
55:48And, again, the book is out October 8th.
55:50Be sure to check it out.
55:52Dr. Quinn, I'll see you and everyone else next week.
55:54So, adios.