For such a popular league, the NBA's origins are among the most mist-shrouded among North America's major pro sports, with the flash, cash, and reach of the sport of obscuring its humble -- and sometimes problematic -- early history. And at the core of the institutionalized racism that was ubiquitous in the Basketball Association of America (BAA) era was the so-called 'gentleman's agreement' that kept players of color off the floor.
But a trio of black players broke that color line at about the time the BAA became the NBA in the 1949-50 season. In April 1950, the Boston Celtics drafted Chuck Cooper, the first Black man to be so honored. A month later, Nat "Sweetwater" Clifton would be the first Black man to sign an NBA contract. And six months after that, Earl Lloyd would be the first Black man to play in an NBA game. These three pioneers were recently portrayed in the film "Sweetwater," who, with Clifton as the story's protagonist, shed light on this key moment in the Association's history.
Currently being screened in the Boston Film Festival, CLNS Media's "Celtics Lab" podcast linked up with the star of the film, Everett Osborne, and the son of Chuck Cooper, Chuck Cooper III, to talk about the film, how far the league has to go, and what yet still needs doing.
Join us for this important episode -- and if you're in the area, consider seeing the film in its screening at the festival this weekend.
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Visit the Official Home of CLNS Sports Coverage - https://clnsmedia.com
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But a trio of black players broke that color line at about the time the BAA became the NBA in the 1949-50 season. In April 1950, the Boston Celtics drafted Chuck Cooper, the first Black man to be so honored. A month later, Nat "Sweetwater" Clifton would be the first Black man to sign an NBA contract. And six months after that, Earl Lloyd would be the first Black man to play in an NBA game. These three pioneers were recently portrayed in the film "Sweetwater," who, with Clifton as the story's protagonist, shed light on this key moment in the Association's history.
Currently being screened in the Boston Film Festival, CLNS Media's "Celtics Lab" podcast linked up with the star of the film, Everett Osborne, and the son of Chuck Cooper, Chuck Cooper III, to talk about the film, how far the league has to go, and what yet still needs doing.
Join us for this important episode -- and if you're in the area, consider seeing the film in its screening at the festival this weekend.
CLNS Media is Powered by:
Prize Picks - https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/CLNS
Download the app today and use Code CLNS when you sign up & Get $50 instantly when you play $5!
Gametime - https://gametime.co
Take the guesswork out of buying MLB tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply.
Elevate your style game on and off the course with the PXG Spring Summer 2024 collection. Head over to https://PXG.com/GARDENREPORT and save 10% on all apparel.
Nutrafol Men! Take the first step to visibly thicker, healthier hair. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners ten dollars off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you go to https://Nutrafol.com/MEN and enter the promo code GARDEN!
#celtics #NBA #BostonCeltics
The CLNS Media Network is the leading provider for video/audio content. CLNS is a fully credentialed member of the media with access to all NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB teams & venues.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CLNS' rebuilt their YouTube community in less than 12 months, during a pandemic that attacked sports. Wondering how? Find out here (and support our channel) - https://www.tubebuddy.com/clnsmedia
Visit the Official Home of CLNS Sports Coverage - https://clnsmedia.com
Twitter - https://twitter.com/CLNSMedia
Celtics - https://twitter.com/celticsclns
Patriots - https://twitter.com/patriotsclns
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SportsTranscript
00:00Celtics lab is brought to you by price picks and the game time app
00:06Already welcome to a very special edition of the Celtics lab podcast brought to you by price picks the exclusive fantasy basketball partner of the
00:13CLS media network and by game time tickets last-minute tickets lowest price guaranteed
00:19I'm your host camera tips by I'm joined by dr. Justin Quinn
00:22but we're gonna do a couple jumps here because we're gonna be talking about the film Sweetwater which
00:29Covers Nat Sweetwater Clifton. He's the first black man to sign an NBA contract and
00:34the film starring Everett Osborne and
00:38Jeremy Piven and others is premiering. It's a worldwide premiere at the Boston Film Festival this weekend and
00:45To mark that we have a couple things going on here the podcast first and just a moment
00:49I'm gonna talk to and Justin's gonna talk to
00:52Everett Osborne the star of the film who plays
00:55Sweetwater Clifton about his experience with the film what he learned about the film and a few other things
00:59You may recognize his work from the 2023 NBA all-star
01:04celebrity game
01:05after that through more editing magic Justin is gonna talk to Chuck Cooper the third the son of
01:12Chuck Cooper who like Sweetwater Clifton broke the color barrier and the NBA. He was the first black man drafted by
01:19An NBA team specifically the Boston Celtics along with Earl Lloyd those three
01:27Integrated basketball, I guess maybe not integrated but brought in the process of integrating the process brought black athletes to the NBA. So
01:35the film Sweetwater
01:37Looks at Nat Clifton its role in that and his experience going from the Globe Charters to the NBA
01:44But Chuck Cooper the third not only is this dad part of that story and in the
01:50Dramatized in the film briefly, but he is also being presented an award at the Boston Film Festival on Sunday
01:57So in a moment, please enjoy our conversation with Everett Osborne the star of the film
02:04Sweetwater and after that same episode enjoy Justin's conversation with Chuck Cooper
02:09The third was coming back to the Celtics lap podcast shout out to Pittsburgh and Duquesne. I actually have
02:17One class worth of college credit from Duquesne so I can claim that one, too. So
02:22Like and subscribe. Thanks to price picks. Thanks to game time and thanks to everyone who made this special episode happen
02:28Enjoy the rest of the show. All right, as promised we're talking to the star of the film Sweetwater Everett Osborne
02:35We already did the introduction. So Everett, how are you? What's up fellas? I'm doing great. How you doing?
02:39Good, I'm get really excited. So it's Friday afternoon when we're talking and
02:43On Sunday is the Angel Studios worldwide premiere at the Boston Film Festival
02:49over at the MIT Media Lab
02:51You just said it's your first time in Boston just because we're a Celtics podcast. What are your impressions?
02:56Impressions are beautiful. There's like a high sense of like excellence and education history here
03:02You know, I can't even explain it
03:03But I feel it in the air and being from LA born and raised Laker fan. No disrespect to Boston
03:08You know, we did the three Pete. I'm outside running around my grandparents house going nuts. I've always respected Boston
03:14I've always respected the Celtics. I mean you guys are the reigning champions now, so it feels good to be here
03:18It's like perfect action
03:20Damn, I love that. Okay. Well, we have a lot to talk about
03:22Let's um, let's talk about the film first and then I've got some basketball questions. Yeah, I believe it's current. You were also the reigning
03:30Scoring champion for the NBA Celebrity All-Star Game. So I was
03:3623 this last one. I didn't participate. So I think someone else is broke. I don't play. Yeah
03:41I mean he played they let him play at like 30 minutes
03:43I think I played 15 minutes and got 22 points or something like that. There's a coaching decision
03:48Yeah, coach. You said fat Joe Lisa Leslie. I love you still but come on now
03:53Okay, let's talk about the film and then I have a thousand more questions than I realized
03:57So the film like we said in our intro that maybe is going to be recorded in the future
04:03Sweetwater Chronicles Nat Sweetwater Clifton. He's the first black man to sign an NBA contract
04:09Celtics fans will know Chuck Cooper was the first black man to be drafted in the NBA and Earl Lloyd was part of that class
04:15as well regardless
04:17Sweetwater really has you know, he's a big part of that story. I'm curious ever prior to the film how
04:23Familiar with his story were you I was not familiar at all actually
04:27Yeah, I was a film
04:28I think I think as far as I would go back just from my basketball knowledge is like Bill Russell
04:32You know guys Jerry was Pete Maravich, but I didn't I didn't really know where started and who you know was inspiration
04:41Yeah, I think films like this are important for that reason. I mean
04:45It's dramatized to a sense Justin and I have like a few nitpicky NBA history things. They could have changed but
04:51it's gonna introduce people to the story that
04:54Certainly from a like basketball perspective is really exciting. So
04:58not only hopefully, you know will
05:01Illuminate people to history and
05:03To an important barrier being broken. I have questions now that you you know the story you inhabited the story you were the story
05:09What is something about it that has just like stuck with you, you know
05:13Like you see a movie and there's just like a hanging, you know
05:16There's sometimes you can't get something out of your head. Is there anything from this film that like was really hung around? I
05:21Think the values of like
05:24Helping each other as human beings, you know
05:26Just to see when Sweetwater was pursuing greatness on his journey of loving the game and all the obstacles he hid
05:32Just to see like how that but away
05:34He was either fighting for people on his team or there was someone that was fighting for him or coaches to break down doors
05:41You know for him to create that change
05:43So I think that's something that just stuck with me is just like the power community helping people
05:47Leaning in on your own personal journey where you could feel lonely
05:50You know of like having this goal or not knowing what your goal is or having this purpose and then just randomly people start
05:58Aligning with you and then you look back and realize you just broke and made history, you know, you just did something magical
06:04So I think that's something that stuck with me
06:06Wow, well, my next question was what do you think you've learned about advocacy, but maybe you just answered that
06:12Advocacy is everything
06:14Advocacy advocacy for self first is
06:18important
06:19Understanding your values are important first and foremost and if you don't know your values is about understanding
06:24What do you not want? I think that can help you just what do you say? No, too
06:28I think it's very important to lead you to advocacy
06:30For example Sweetwater knew that no matter how hard he played he knew the value of the Harlem Globes
06:36The only black team they ended up beating the Los Angeles Lakers, right?
06:41the world champions
06:43You're not gonna accept less than you're not gonna not accept equal pay
06:47You know from other people once you realize how great you actually are and then once you realize how great you are
06:53There's no negotiating. It's like consistently leaning into that
06:56So I think advocacy is very important to know who you are first and how you can show up in the world
07:00And then of course obstacles in life
07:02We're gonna try to like make you think you're not who you are
07:05Or not really desire what you really think you can do, but you got to keep pushing towards that and have faith
07:09So I think advocacy for yourself and people showing up for you is important
07:13so Boston's Jalen Brown is
07:17Advocating like in five different directions at once. He's doing practical things
07:22I don't know if you read about this. He wants to bring back or bring rather black Wall Street to Boston
07:28He's looking at ways to specifically impact
07:32Business owners local communities things like that. What do you think of either Jalen Brown's brand of advocacy or just like this era of NBA?
07:39advocacy writ large
07:41Big shout-outs Jalen Brown. I
07:44Think I mean what's a cow right? I mean, I think yeah, you know, I'm a Cali native
07:48So I love what he's doing and I think that I don't think this is a new thing. I
07:54Think he's connected to his roots. We look at Bill Russell
07:57Right Bill Russell advocated for humanity very heavily in social activism
08:03To whatever degree I think now as these generation we take it further. That's responsibility
08:07I think Jalen Brown is a part of that tree. So salute to him
08:10I think when you're part of sports, which is so beautiful, right? It brings everybody together people are involved
08:16There's a responsibility to influence people whether you want to or not
08:20So, you know leaning into that power though the most positive way is always important and I salute it. I
08:26Love that. So
08:28If you're watching on YouTube, you can tell I'm I'm a high school history teacher by day. This isn't just my role in the classroom
08:36And ever I have sometimes experience, you know when you have tough conversations in the classroom
08:42But they're like important conversations to have I'm really proud that I get to you know
08:46Be that person for my students, but it can be really heavy. It can be exhausting
08:52like sometimes it's just like puts you in a mood and
08:55Parts of this film or you know, it's about triumph but parts of the film are really heavy
08:59Some of the language is really heavy. I'm curious just like as an actor. What was it like to?
09:03Inhabit that time and that space and that vocabulary
09:09Not easy
09:12Part of it is you reach the emotions. I think I went through every emotion frustration and anger
09:20You know love hey
09:23Questioning your worthiness. Am I good enough?
09:26You know, I'm just speaking from that space of like receiving and going through these
09:30Emotions and these dialogues of what was going on during that time in 1950s being a black man or being someone that
09:38You know was underprivileged of trying to reach to some type of degree. It was tough for me
09:44It was tough to endure that and to go through it
09:46But I had to do it because Sweetwater went through it and you don't know what's on the other side
09:50He didn't know he was gonna be this great, you know, trail blazing heroic figure
09:55You never know who you're gonna be. You're just taking life on
09:58Not knowing what's gonna be on the other side, but you just have a resolve to fight
10:02So that's what I felt and I went through it and I'm so grateful
10:07For that journey and it's a truly a gift that I still cherish to this day
10:11That scene from the movie where you guys break down at the gas station and you run into that guy
10:19I won't I won't spoil it people who haven't seen it yet
10:23But I don't think people realize one that you know tour buses run out of gas sometime back in that era
10:30And it wasn't that crazy of a thing to happen given the budget they were working with
10:34But also the reception that your character received and how tense that moment was
10:39I think it was really it was really honest of the movie to include that and
10:45you know, it's
10:47It's not the
10:49Ideal kind of a situation quite obviously, but to gloss over that element of
10:57NBA history, I think would have been a mistake and I'm actually really glad they engaged with it. I
11:02Am too and just to lean in a little bit more with that. You see the basketball player you see these Supreme athletes
11:08But they're human beings first
11:10Doesn't matter the color. We're all human beings first
11:12There's a man under there with a heart has emotions and enduring some of those things are traumatic quite literally
11:18It gives you trauma. It gives you anxiety
11:21It makes you instills you with fear
11:24So to understand that to experience that and to create space for that
11:30And just see people as human beings and not just these superhuman athletes
11:33That's gonna giddy up and do whatever you tell them to do is very important and pivotal and the NBA
11:38Experienced that right the players experienced that but we've been evolving and but there's things that are still you know
11:44Still happen to this day that are important to just see me in this for us to understand history
11:47So I'm happy they put in the film shout out to martini shout out to the NBA and all the producers attached
11:54I'm gonna change gears because I have things I won't ask you on but that's so beautifully put
11:59I it occurs to me a big thing
12:01I tell my students is history is not inevitable. And so for you as the actor to inhabit Sweetwater as a character who
12:08as an actor who knows what happens next, but the character doesn't it's such an interesting challenge like
12:13I
12:15That tension with my students is real
12:16They kind of just like know when there's a happy ending or a sad ending but to kind of get in the space of like
12:21You're just in the moment
12:23This is so different. I'm on a much less
12:28Consequential scale so you played college basketball. I think you're six four. Is that correct? I am with shoes without him
12:35I guess I'm six thirty who knows
12:37I'm a few inches shorter than that with even with shoes as a
12:42so the film
12:44Is believable in part because it's star yours
12:48Here's truly can hoop. What is it like to be an actor?
12:53Who's also an athlete playing with actors who are maybe not athletes. Although
12:58You didn't play with some athletes, right? I did, you know, I mean as all actors in the community
13:04I think we will all say we are artistic athletes
13:07I think there's a physicality to acting that you may miss or you may not think about but it is definitely a physical space
13:14Like there's a physical medium truthfully
13:16So the fact that I've had that experience
13:18It just allows me to transfer those skills into the space of acting and it all it all goes together
13:24But the tricky part though was man. Listen, I didn't play ball in
13:281950 so
13:30To not take my skills up to this new age and not have them
13:35You know bleed over into the truth of this story was the challenge and that's why I had to just you know
13:41Really go to a space of not knowing and really learn the game from the beginning in a new way
13:46And I had a great people a great cast around me
13:49We had actual Harlem Globe charters that were part of the organization on the I was gonna ask us some of those tricks, man
13:57I mean, I was amazed. So so when you asked me camera, how did you you know as the actor stay present?
14:02Not knowing what's gonna happen. I think that's the beautiful thing about casting, right?
14:06Legitimate people where things are popping up that I don't expect legitimate
14:11Actors and athletes we had, you know, Bobby Portis, you know, he's out there, too
14:16So, I mean we had real actors and athletes so it was a live
14:20Experience of this fun. You didn't know what's gonna happen next and I think the film represents that too when you watch it
14:26So it's funny you mentioned playing like you were playing in the 50s
14:30I hadn't occurred to me how different would be but it did occur to me that you put you played in Converse
14:36What what's your preferred basketball shoe now in 2024 and was it different to play in
14:42What can only be described as not as supportive sneakers?
14:45Yeah, you know actually I was wearing Converse big shout out to Converse because I mean it started with them
14:50Right, and you know, I was dunking shooting dribbling, you know, everything felt great to be honest
14:57I didn't really think about it
14:59Just kind of enjoyed the shoes of the time where we're at
15:03You know, I mean I did have my own personal insoles in there just for my feet
15:08But I mean the Converse felt good. I don't really haven't played ball in a while truthfully
15:14but
15:16You know, I love I love I
15:19Love bronze shoes. KD's Kyrie's, you know, I love them all man. I haven't really played ball in a while though
15:26You know Converse recently sent me something
15:28I tell myself if I go play I'll put them on to see the outfit with some new shoes. So we'll see
15:33Cool. I like that. Do you know what you're gonna wear on Sunday to the film festival? I
15:38Don't know man. I might I might wear some Chuck's or I might wear some classic shoes. I don't know
15:43We're gonna see I don't know
15:45Yeah
15:48Chucks I don't know his dress shoes and Chuck's one of them
15:50I mean the Chuck's are fitting more eyes are gonna be on you than me quite frankly, but I haven't decided either
15:56Man dress up. Hey show out. This is Boston. This is your city, right? Yeah
16:01They call it my city you got a dress like you've been you got a dress like it. All right, cool. Yeah
16:06No, I look good. You'll see me. Well, actually I have no idea what's gonna happen
16:09I don't know if you'll see me, but if you see a handsome gentleman from afar you saw it's me
16:13Oh, yeah, of course, of course, of course. Yeah
16:19Okay. Well, so we told you it would be a type 15 we're running out of time
16:22But I want to ask about this celebrity all-star game. So just give us the hits like what was that experience?
16:27All-star weekend is is nutty. There's a million people a thousand things going on. Were you ever starstruck? I mean
16:36I'm just a kid from LA. My people are from Alabama and Detroit man. I just grew up loving the game
16:41I didn't think I was gonna end up on the world's greatest stage. I got Shaq watching me dunk
16:44I'm doing a diesel muscle in front of them
16:48I mean, I got you know, Lisa Leslie coaching me Dwayne Wade trying to stop me from scoring
16:54I mean, it was beautiful to see the NBA players show me respect
16:57I guess Adam Silver said that the all-star game I played in was the most competitive
17:01Game or event that whole weekend during that time. I'm picking up full court
17:05Yeah, I'm saying so I took a serious we elevated the game
17:09The beautiful part was we played in Utah, which is where I played my first college basketball game
17:14I only played four minutes because my coach didn't put me in a game and I was so sad
17:18I couldn't play but five six years later. That's where I end up breaking the scoring record for the all-star game
17:22So, you know, you never know what can happen when you keep faith
17:26Yeah, I'm I bet that kid who played the first game in Utah did not expect what was coming next
17:30Not at all not dream come true
17:33So, uh, let's I got two questions for you. First. Let's make the bosses happy
17:38Sweetwater Angel Studios worldwide premiere as a Sunday. What's your elevator pitch for the movie if you're if someone's like, hey
17:45Should I watch it? What do you think I
17:48Technically don't have an elevator pitch
17:51It's a it's a great movie it's a great movie about
17:55You know one of the greatest trailblazers in history
17:59involved in one of the most influential sports in history and
18:03When it comes to Boston since we are gonna be in Boston and Angel Studios is doing the worldwide premiere here
18:08I think Boston actually represents
18:11Basketball in the world stage at this point being the reigning champions being the history that's been here
18:16So if you love the game if you love Boston
18:18It's a culmination that it's a unique opportunity to just be in the room, you know
18:23I don't think this happens all the time. And I think it's a it's beautiful if you love the game
18:28You love family and you want to learn and be you know, have fun. You can bring whoever to this event
18:34This is definitely a communal experience that I think you leave a better person
18:39All right, fantastic. That's beautiful. And um, so ever Osborne your final question on the Celtics lab podcast
18:44You do not need to butter our buns here. Who do you have winning the NBA title next season?
18:54Just speak your truth you
18:56Don't worry about the banner. That's you know on the page here, you know
19:01This is this is off left, but I grew up with my boy Spencer
19:04Then with Ian I saw him not too long ago, and he just went to Dallas. So he's an LA native
19:09So I'm gonna go I'm gonna go close to one of my homies that I grew up with and just say Dallas
19:13My race will win it
19:14Wow, all right. Well, how's this if it's math Celtics in the finals again?
19:19I'm gonna reach out to your agent. You got to come back on. Hey, I'm back on if Madison sells this man. I'm there
19:24All right deal
19:26Alright, well ever Osborne
19:28Hopefully I see you this Sunday at the Boston Film Festival for the worldwide premiere of Angel Studios film Sweetwater
19:36Starring Everett Osborne up next on our podcast
19:41Justin is going to talk to Chuck Cooper the third and who is going to receive the humanitarian of impact change award at this film
19:48Festival, so we're gonna welcome back onto the podcast Chuck Cooper
19:51But until then Everett if I don't see on Sunday have fun and congrats big event
19:57Fellas, thank you so much. It's been an honor
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20:53Okay, I am here with a very special guest. Thank you cam for setting this up
20:59I'm here with Chuck Cooper the third and if that name sounds familiar
21:03he's been on this podcast before and
21:06Probably more importantly because he has the same name as his dad who's pretty famous
21:11We are going to talk to him about his dad
21:13But we are also going to talk to him about the context of an award that Chuck
21:19His son is getting at the Boston Film Festival
21:23at the screening of a movie called Sweetwater
21:27Which is about the first black players who played in the what became the NBA but started as the basketball Association of America
21:35So first of all, um, I check how you doing?
21:38Great, Justin. Thanks for having me on. Thanks cam
21:41Now Kim sends his regards. Uh, he said he ran into you in Dallas at the NBA Finals. What was that?
21:48like
21:49Well, I'll tell you what actually was in Boston. Okay, and it was game five. So I think that
21:57It was fantastic. I I tell you what when that confetti went off
22:01I mean, I think just just I think first of course I've thought about my dad, you know my dad
22:08Bob Cousy it was it was a rookie with my father and it was read our backs first year with the Celtics and that was
22:15The Celtics first winning season and I think that felt that you know, knowing that my father, you know helped build a foundation
22:24But when that confetti fail, I tell you what there was I've never felt anything like that. It's just a noise
22:30I just took a minute just to just stop and just look in and really take it in and it's just so proud
22:35We and I tell people all the time Justin, you know, we could not have picked a better organization to be historically
22:43Forever historically connected to the Celtics are just an incredible organization. And I mean this in their DNA
22:49They drafted my father and officially broke the color barrier in
22:531950 they put the first back starting five on the court of the great Bill Russell the first the first black coach and
23:01Today they have Boston Celtics United which does great work in the community
23:06So just blessed and honored to be a part not only a part of but a partner with the Boston Celtics
23:11Very cool. So those are a lot of things that I wanted to talk to you about so
23:16Being the son of the first black man to be drafted in the NBA the film Sweetwater
23:22Deals with a lot of what was going on in that era
23:26There was some expectations that
23:31Chuck Cooper's Sweetwater Nat Clifton
23:35They play with a tension between who was going to be first to actually play in a game and then when we saw they were
23:40Treated when they were actually in a game
23:43Wasn't the best as many things were in that era for people of color
23:48Russell later refused his Hall of Fame ring before your father was inducted
23:52Could you tell us a little bit about how that all went?
23:55So Bill Russell would have been the first African American to be inducted into the Naismith Hall of Fame and
24:02Being a great person and their civil rights pioneer that he is
24:05He said there's no way I'm gonna be the first when I stood on the shoulders of guys like Chuck Cooper
24:11So he refused to accept his ring and it just so happened that you know
24:16he was one of my father's a Hall of Fame presenters and
24:20They end up getting the same
24:232019
24:25Edition of the of the ring so I just can't thank Bill Russell enough
24:31You know between that and in the push that we had to make, you know, it was interesting that you know
24:36Pittsburgh doesn't have a professional team and my father died relatively young. So there was really no one
24:42Advocating and pushing for him until until I came along. So
24:47We're thankful or blessed that he finally got in and was recognized by a tremendous group of Hall of Famers
24:53So can't think Bill Russell just what what a great man
24:56What a tremendous loss not just to the Boston Southeast family to NBA but to the world
25:00But here Bill will always be be in our hearts
25:03And you know Bill is my favorite player of all time
25:06That's because he was the most winning player of all time
25:09But really more so because of what he did off of the court now
25:13Your father may have been the first black player to play on a basketball court for the NBA who was drafted
25:20But he was also a pretty active person on the court
25:25He was a very active person on the court. He was a very active person
25:29But he was also a pretty active person off the court and similar things. Could you tell me a little bit about that?
25:36So yeah, so, you know not only breaking the color barrier in the NBA
25:41The first thing he did that was rare back in
25:441960 after he retired from the NBA
25:46She went to the University of Massachusetts and got his master's degree
25:49Right, and then he came back to Pittsburgh
25:52The reason why he did that I think is kind of kind of appropriate to share
25:55With the audience the reason why he got his master's degree because he wanted to come back to Pittsburgh and
26:00built a community and leave and
26:03The positions that that would afforded him the opportunity to do that. They were like, oh, well you you know
26:08You got that you have to have a master's degree
26:11To be
26:12In order to get this job, so he went and got his master's degree and came back
26:16Now once he got his degree he he leveraged that and became
26:21Pittsburgh National Bank, which is now PNC their first black executive and also the first black city department head and
26:30Pittsburgh's
26:31History when he was appointed Parks and Recreation by then mayor Pete Flaherty
26:35So he continued to break barriers. The only downside of that Justin is you know, whenever you're the first doing anything
26:44It causes wounds and leaves scars, you know
26:48It's just so stressful and many of his friends and even my mom said they think that someone that stress
26:54Of always doing things for others and breaking those barriers and taking you know, everything that he had to take to open those doors
27:01You know it took a toll on him, but I but knowing him I don't think he would have did anything differently
27:07You know, he was just that type of person that believed in you know, helping others and and leading by example
27:13so
27:15You kind of alluded to this earlier, but you have also taken up the mantle of his work in the Chuck Cooper foundation
27:23Give us an idea of what that organization is about what it does and what it's doing
27:28So I started a foundation. I'm giving back to the community pretty much most of my adult life
27:33I started after-school program
27:34Back when I was a young man and was going there pretty much every day after work when I was young enough to be doing
27:39a lot of other different things
27:41but back in
27:432009 Duquesne University where my dad's alma mater
27:47Approached me and they wanted to do a basketball game and I said, you know what?
27:50I would love to do it
27:51But I'll never do anything in my father's name that doesn't have an educational
27:54Component as he believed so much in the importance of education matter of fact his both his parents were college-educated
28:01Which was rare. They had teaching certificates
28:04so I
28:05formed a form to Chuck Cooper foundation with some very talented of
28:10People here in Pittsburgh and we decided to give graduate-level scholarships, you know tied in with his legacy
28:16And we started giving scholarships back in 2011 and to date we've awarded over
28:22$400,000 in graduate scholarship support
28:26to probably about a hundred students now
28:29And we also do outreach to high school middle school age students
28:33You know, I teach them about my father's legacy and importance of education and being good citizens
28:38And then we've been able to partner with the boss of Celtics and we have the Chuck Cooper fellow
28:43We're working on a third Chuck Cooper fellow now who helps the Celtics through their
28:47Social justice initiatives that they have so, you know, I just always wanted to make sure I wanted to do two things Justin
28:54I want to make sure that my father wasn't forgot about and then I want to carry his legacy of giving back and
29:00helping people
29:02and and we've been successful in doing that and you know the
29:06Have an opportunity to come to Boston this weekend and and receive the the Boston Films Festival
29:13humanitarian impact a change award, you know just speaks volumes to the
29:18Commitment and impact that we've had as a foundation. So I I can't thank them enough and I can't think I got a shout-out
29:24my man
29:26Martine GG
29:28I'm sorry, Martine Gigi the the writer and director of the film. Everybody screws his name up. I'm sorry mark
29:35but uh Martine, but uh, but uh, you know, I can't thank him enough for for
29:40For allowing me to come up for a premiere and a film festival for for recognizing the work of the Chuck Cooper Foundation
29:46It's shedding light on our work in our organization
29:49Very cool. I got a chance to see the film very recently
29:53Recommended it's a window into an era if you think that the they might be portraying the
30:01Racism that they experienced at the time
30:02Let me be very frank and say from everything that I read that was a much lighter
30:07Version of some of the things that they have done. Yeah. Yeah
30:12So tell us a little bit about the film since we since we're on the topic
30:16I got some other stuff related to the foundation and such that you mentioned, but let's let's talk about the phone
30:21What are your thoughts about it?
30:23So I really gotta take my hat off to Martine Gigi for doing it
30:28I know he he initially tells a story that he went to the Hall of Fame back in the mid 90s
30:32And he learned about Earl Lloyd Chuck Cooper and that Sweetwater Clifton. He's from New York
30:36So, you know, he kind of had an affinity to the Sweetwater, but Sweetwater's a tremendous player
30:41But you know for him to get this done and sheer light light on the pioneers, you know
30:46We're going to the 75th year anniversary of that barrier being broken and I have to really take my hat off to the NBA
30:53They're gonna do some phenomenal things to recognize the pioneers and I can't wait to see the laundry list that they have in mind
30:59Starting April 25th of next year, which is the anniversary of the Celtics drafted my father
31:05But you know to see the pioneers on a big screen and he wanted to make the the movie for all the right reasons
31:11He got a great lead and Everett Osborne who is not only passionate about basketball, but he's a tremendous actor
31:19So, yeah, I just you know what it I actually got to tell you a story
31:24So there's a scene in there with Walter Brown and red art back
31:27you know when Walter Brown's at the table and they draft my father and
31:31It's the first time I see any actor playing my father on the big screen and I and I got emotional
31:38So I you know, I I know that you know the limitations of Hollywood
31:42They probably didn't dig it deep into you know, kind of the experiences of what the pioneers went through
31:47You know, a lot of people don't know that the early african-american pioneers the black the first black players. They weren't brought in there to
31:55Put up shots. They were brought in to rebound and to be shut down defenders
32:00Which my father they sailed out Sweetwater sailed out
32:02my father actually was named to the all-rookie team and
32:06And you know just to give you a little bit of something to think about my father was in contention
32:11For rookie of the year and eventually Bob Cousy got it, but he's he's in contention and he's primarily a rebounder
32:19a
32:20Shutdown defender in a shot blocker
32:21He wasn't he didn't have the opportunity to put up a lot a lot of points if you go back and look at look at
32:26The stats he didn't have a whole lot of field goal attempts
32:29And he was a driver and a slasher and the thing about my dad and Sweetwater
32:34You know, he both were teammates with the Harlem Globetrotters
32:37Prior to playing in the NBA a lot of people don't know that my father's first professional contract was with the Harlem Globetrotters
32:44But he didn't sign it. He had heard about how a treated some of the players and he wouldn't sign
32:49So when when when when the Celtics drafted him, he was in the clear because he had a handshake agreement, but a Sweetwater's case
32:56You know, he was signed and the Knicks had to purchase his contract
33:00So he became the first to own a contract
33:02But I think the story with I think what the story does do well
33:05What the movie does do well is to is to let you know that these guys were great players
33:09Sweetwater was a tremendous basketball player
33:12And if they if those pioneers would have been when afforded the opportunity really played our games
33:16They would be in the history books
33:18for the numbers that they put up not just for being the pioneers and
33:23Carrying the league on their back as breaking that barrier as they did, you know back in 1950
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34:43Yeah, it was really interesting to see the nuance he put into trying to reflect the actual culture that people were living in at
34:50That time and like how issues of style of play
34:54Were actually a barrier to white people at the time who thought that they their audience didn't want that despite the very clear evidence
35:02to the contrary until the ticket sales
35:04right, just
35:05Sometimes I think there's myopia that is cultural as well as situational
35:11Which the glow charters by the way, Justin
35:14really
35:15You know a lot of people don't know is that the heart and glow charters defeated the Minneapolis Lakers back in
35:221947 and again in 1948 and and that was big George Micah who was the dominant player?
35:27That was the shack of the era and with my dad wasn't on that team
35:30by the way
35:31But Sweetwater was and when they beat the globe charters that let him know that the the African American players could play
35:37To the NBA standard, right?
35:40But more importantly one of the reasons why the league was slow to integrate Abe Saperstein had an unwritten rule
35:46With the owners of the league
35:48The glow charters would come in and play double hitters
35:51With the NBA because they would draw more fans because they they could play serious ball
35:56Like I said, they beat the Lakers
35:57But they also did their tricks and had their flair and that attracted a lot of fans
36:01so and particularly in Walter Brown's case Walter Brown had just mortgaged his house and
36:07Abe Saperstein made it clear that if you draft a black player
36:10I'm not gonna play that game and that game would sell out and then let the most arenas
36:16The garden was one of them and
36:18Without that game. It was difficult to meet without those games with the globe. It was difficult to meet your payroll
36:24So I know that's one thing my father. I heard him say how much respect he had for Walter Brown
36:28For selecting him knowing that he you know
36:31Had some financial difficulties and the Abe was gonna take that game away from him and he did it anyway
36:37And when he stood up at the end, it's a it's a it's depicted in the in a movie when he stood up
36:42At the draft he said listen Boston takes Chuck Cooper to all-american out of Duquesne University
36:48Another owner said you can't take him. He's colored
36:50I'm sure it was a different word, but you know, who knows and Walter Brown said I'm Boston tastes Chuck Cooper
36:56I don't give a damn if he's striped pulled out a plan and that just reflects the Celtics organization even today
37:03Like how you point out to the financial realities that the league was dealing with men because people think NBA they think millions of dollars
37:10Large amounts of money huge amounts of interest and in that era, it was barely more organized in like some pickleball weeks today
37:17You know, it's just like by a shoestring
37:20Yeah, it was not a minor risk on his part at all. Right, right
37:24So another thing that I wanted to touch on
37:28and is this foundation the Chuck Cooper Foundation and the what it has in common with the NBA in terms of
37:35How it chooses to operate in people's lives to help them which is not a
37:40Traditional charity approach where you just give them something and that's the end of the relationship
37:45There is a conscious effort to grow community to emphasize things like education
37:51and things to create
37:54equity in the community where
37:57People can then continue to grow on their own
38:01Not in this endless cycle of just needing more charity from someone at some point in the future
38:05Which is something we are also starting to see some players
38:09Like Jalen Brown the Drew and Lauren holiday foundation
38:12They are also using similar approaches with things like the exchange slash black Wall Street
38:18I was wondering if you had any thoughts on those organizations and what they are doing
38:23I know you guys are working together with the Celtics. Just curious like your take on
38:29This general approach in
38:31more of a broad sense
38:33Well, first of all, my hat goes off to Drew and Jalen and I'm a little more familiar with with Jalen Brown's
38:40Foundation I've got a chance to have several conversations with Jalen not long ones
38:44But I've met him on a few occasions and I know where his heart is and he's just a phenomenal
38:49person and you know, not only do the black Wall Street, but you know, he invests so much in young people and
38:55You know, that's the passion of the Chuck Cooper Foundation and with with us, you know, even though we give the scholarships
39:02You know, we have a program all of our scholarship recipients are truly beacons of light
39:07There's some phenomenal young people but with that scholarship is a give-back component, you know
39:12They have to go out with me to give in front of young people
39:14We call it some people call it giving back we call it playing it forward and and and they're just phenomenal
39:20Examples of people and they share their stories of success. They share their trails and tribulations
39:25They share best practices to help people get
39:30Out of high school and in the college or in the career. So it's just so important to pay it forward
39:36You know, we live in a world that you know, we live in one of the greatest countries in the world
39:41but then we have elements that that are
39:45Divisive now they wanted to divide us so I think now more than ever, you know
39:51We need you know, I always say this
39:53you know now I
39:55really think that life is about it's not a white or black thing or
40:01Shouldn't be if we can get to the point where it's good versus evil
40:06We're when regardless of your color your creed your religion
40:10If you're good if you're a good person if the good people of the world could come together
40:14We can win and we will continue to have the greatest country in the world
40:18If we could just get good people to line up like Jalen Brown like Drew Holland like the holidays
40:25To do great things in the world and make a difference
40:28I think I such huge platforms
40:29Right, and they're doing all the doing all the right things and just great examples to our young they inspire me
40:36They inspire me, you know, cuz I did it as a young man
40:39They inspire me to keep it going and not to give up
40:41So I might my hat really goes out to not only them but again to the Boston Celtics organization who you know
40:48It was really a star amongst a great league
40:50That's something there's some teams doing some great things
40:53But the Celtics organization remain not just because of their championships, but what they do in the communities and off the court as well
41:01So I don't want to take up too much of your time
41:03You've been very generous with me so far, but I do have a pressing question
41:08That cam may or may not have put me up to
41:11In terms of how he framed it. Oh, no, you've heard a lot about expansion
41:17I imagine as the rest of us have and the NBA kind of putting it off for a little bit
41:21But it seems like it's going to happen at some point
41:23the
41:25primary places where it's been discussed have been
41:28Seattle as it should be with the historic nature of that that particular situation and then also maybe Las Vegas now
41:36Let's assume that either
41:37It's not Las Vegas for some reason because there has been some pushback from the league that it's definitely going to be those two locations
41:43Mexico City where I live is another popular one. We don't need to expound that anymore. I've done that so much
41:49I'm sure my guests do not want to hear it anymore, but
41:53Can bring up the opportunity of a particular city that might make Midwest
41:59Road trips go a little bit less chaotic by having something, you know in between
42:04Indianapolis and say I don't know the the Mid-Atlantic region. I think you know where I'm going with this
42:11NBA team in Pittsburgh. Do you think would be viable like what's your pitch if you were to try to convince the NBA why?
42:19Well Pittsburgh would be a great location because it's a great city, it's a growing city
42:24You get great universities like like Duquesne the University of Pittsburgh CMU
42:28You get great hospital systems something that we have in common with the Boston community, but it's just it's a growing community
42:37And you know we have the so when when when when the ABA came into existence
42:43Pittsburgh had a team and we won the first ABA championship
42:48It was the it was the the Pittsburgh Pipers, okay
42:52Pittsburgh hybrid the Ironman played in the you're correct. The Ironman did play in the in the in the pre-nba league
42:58NBL. Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah, that's right. Matter of fact. It's the Ironman my dad scrimmaged against the Ironman
43:04That's the first time he realized that he actually had NBA talent
43:08But Pittsburgh would be a great location, but I tell you what, I'm close enough to the NBA
43:12I know they got much smarter minds than me. They're
43:16They're figuring it out, but I would love to get a team of Pittsburgh
43:18And I'll tell you what if we can't get an NBA team of Pittsburgh, I would love to have a WNBA team
43:23Oh, yes. I mean that league is growing and going I think I think
43:28You know with Kaitlyn Cart
43:30I mean, you know, I mean, you know, I mean, you know, I mean, you know, I mean, you know
43:34I think um, uh, you know with Kaitlyn Clark Clark and Angel Reese and what um, and what uh, I'm blanking on her name
43:42Um that just broke the scoring record. Uh
43:46Aja Wilson
43:48Aja Wilson. Oh my good. Sorry Aja if you see that
43:51But I mean, she's just she she's a goat
43:53I I get a saying because I don't believe there's such thing as the greatest of all time
43:57There's greatest of all times. It's the greatest of a time of a time. There you go. Yep
44:02Yep, she she and I but I will say certain people run with the herd. She runs with the goats
44:07I mean, she's just a phenomenal player. So
44:10Hey, Justin, if we can't get an NBA team, i'll be honest as a native pittsburgher
44:15You know, I can always come to boston and watch my celtics and and stay home with pittsburgh and watch our WNBA team
44:21But I I hope we certainly get one or the other that's for sure and I appreciate you asking me that question
44:26Of course
44:27Uh anything you want to plug for the foundation or anything else that's coming up?
44:32Well again, you know what the uh foundation, uh, you know, we got some great projects working on
44:37We're looking at doing some things in pittsburgh that we haven't really talked about publicly yet, but it arounds a major
44:43it's it it it um
44:45It encompasses doing a major building in pittsburgh. Um,
44:49Chuck cooper museum type of a building. Uh, we've got uh, uh, uh, uh,
44:54We got a grant from a great organization the r.k. Mellon foundation to to begin to look at that
45:00So and then we also have the chuck cooper house that we want to redo as well so that that's on our horizons. Um,
45:08At the nba level again, we have the 75th, um year anniversary coming up
45:12I'm looking forward to put my heads together with the with the celtics to see how we can celebrate. Um,
45:18You know the the the moment when the celtics changed the face of the nba
45:22Uh, it's just a good time. There's so many exciting things going on and I appreciate the opportunity
45:27Not only to come on here and talk about the boston film festival
45:30So i'm looking forward to being in boston, uh in the next day or two, but also the great celtics organization
45:37um the movie sweetwater
45:40And uh, and you know all the great things that are going on right now
45:43It's just a phenomenal time to to to be chuck cooper the third with all the great support
45:48Uh that we get from all those organizations that I got a chance to meet and the people
45:53That I talked about earlier in the broadcast
45:56Very cool. Hopefully with sports documentaries seem to be all the rage recently. We got a chuck cooper
46:02Sports documentary or movie feature film like sweetwater. I would love it. I would love to tell the story
46:08I will say, you know, i'm lucky that I have actually
46:11uh developed a relationship back in
46:142012 I believe the cavaliers
46:17I think it was 16 the cavaliers honored all three families with the on court celebration
46:22So I got a chance to meet kevin lloyd and uh nat sweetwater clifton's daughter jatom robinson
46:28And we've been together ever since so we now have a collaborative
46:31Where we're, you know working together and we got these mitchell nests has been going around sat here over here mitchell nests
46:38We have the pioneers edition of the church now that are available
46:41mitchellnest.com
46:44uh, so there's just some great things happening with the legacies and just looking forward to continue to
46:49To to grow them and celebrate them and and work with the nba and the celtics to do just that
46:54very cool
46:56well
46:57This episode of the celtics lab podcast is brought to you by pies prize picks the exclusive fantasy basketball partner of the cls
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47:14And be sure to check out all the other celtics and other new england sports oriented pods on the cls media network
47:20Thanks again for joining us chuck
47:22Glad to have you here. Uh next time something comes up. I hope you'll come back talk to us about it
47:28And uh, that's all I have for today
47:30Absolutely. Thank you. Justin. Appreciate you. You take great care anytime. All right. Take care
47:43Good
47:51Like you told me I should