On breaking basketball barriers and Boston w/ Chuck Cooper III and Everett Osborne | Celtics Lab - video Dailymotion

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For such a popular league, the NBA's origins are among the most mist-shrouded among North America's major pro sports, with the flash, cash, and reach of the sport of obscuring its humble -- and sometimes problematic -- early history. And at the core of the institutionalized racism that was ubiquitous in the Basketball Association of America (BAA) era was the so-called 'gentleman's agreement' that kept players of color off the floor.  But a trio of black players broke that color line at about the time the BAA became the NBA in the 1949-50 season. In April 1950, the Boston Celtics drafted Chuck Cooper, the first Black man to be so honored. A month later, Nat "Sweetwater" Clifton would be the first Black man to sign an NBA contract. And six months after that, Earl Lloyd would be the first Black man to play in an NBA game. These three pioneers were recently portrayed in the film "Sweetwater," who, with Clifton as the story's protagonist, shed light on this key moment in the Association's history.  Currently being screened in the Boston Film Festival, CLNS Media's "Celtics Lab" podcast linked up with the star of the film, Everett Osborne, and the son of Chuck Cooper, Chuck Cooper III, to talk about the film, how far the league has to go, and what yet still needs doing.  Join us for this important episode -- and if you're in the area, consider seeing the film in its screening at the festival this weekend.   CLNS Media is Powered by:   Prize Picks - https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/CLNS Download the app today and use Code CLNS when you sign up & Get $50 instantly when you play $5!   Gametime - https://gametime.co Take the guesswork out of buying MLB tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply.  Elevate your style game on and off the course with the PXG Spring Summer 2024 collection. Head over to https://PXG.com/GARDENREPORT and save 10% on all apparel.  Nutrafol Men! Take the first step to visibly thicker, healthier hair. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners ten dollars off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you go to https://Nutrafol.com/MEN and enter the promo code GARDEN!   #celtics #NBA #BostonCeltics The CLNS Media Network is the leading provider for video/audio content. CLNS is a fully credentialed member of the media with access to all NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB teams & venues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------  CLNS' rebuilt their YouTube community in less than 12 months, during a pandemic that attacked sports. Wondering how? Find out here (and support our channel) - https://www.tubebuddy.com/clnsmedia  Visit the Official Home of CLNS Sports Coverage -  https://clnsmedia.com  Twitter - https://twitter.com/CLNSMedia Celtics - https://twitter.com/celticsclns Patriots - https://twitter.com/patriotsclns

Transcript

00:00Celtics lab is brought to you by price picks and the game time app

00:06Already welcome to a very special edition of the Celtics lab podcast brought to you by price picks the exclusive fantasy basketball partner of the

00:13CLS media network and by game time tickets last-minute tickets lowest price guaranteed

00:19I'm your host camera tips by I'm joined by dr. Justin Quinn

00:22but we're gonna do a couple jumps here because we're gonna be talking about the film Sweetwater which

00:29Covers Nat Sweetwater Clifton. He's the first black man to sign an NBA contract and

00:34the film starring Everett Osborne and

00:38Jeremy Piven and others is premiering. It's a worldwide premiere at the Boston Film Festival this weekend and

00:45To mark that we have a couple things going on here the podcast first and just a moment

00:49I'm gonna talk to and Justin's gonna talk to

00:52Everett Osborne the star of the film who plays

00:55Sweetwater Clifton about his experience with the film what he learned about the film and a few other things

00:59You may recognize his work from the 2023 NBA all-star

01:04celebrity game

01:05after that through more editing magic Justin is gonna talk to Chuck Cooper the third the son of

01:12Chuck Cooper who like Sweetwater Clifton broke the color barrier and the NBA. He was the first black man drafted by

01:19An NBA team specifically the Boston Celtics along with Earl Lloyd those three

01:27Integrated basketball, I guess maybe not integrated but brought in the process of integrating the process brought black athletes to the NBA. So

01:35the film Sweetwater

01:37Looks at Nat Clifton its role in that and his experience going from the Globe Charters to the NBA

01:44But Chuck Cooper the third not only is this dad part of that story and in the

01:50Dramatized in the film briefly, but he is also being presented an award at the Boston Film Festival on Sunday

01:57So in a moment, please enjoy our conversation with Everett Osborne the star of the film

02:04Sweetwater and after that same episode enjoy Justin's conversation with Chuck Cooper

02:09The third was coming back to the Celtics lap podcast shout out to Pittsburgh and Duquesne. I actually have

02:17One class worth of college credit from Duquesne so I can claim that one, too. So

02:22Like and subscribe. Thanks to price picks. Thanks to game time and thanks to everyone who made this special episode happen

02:28Enjoy the rest of the show. All right, as promised we're talking to the star of the film Sweetwater Everett Osborne

02:35We already did the introduction. So Everett, how are you? What's up fellas? I'm doing great. How you doing?

02:39Good, I'm get really excited. So it's Friday afternoon when we're talking and

02:43On Sunday is the Angel Studios worldwide premiere at the Boston Film Festival

02:49over at the MIT Media Lab

02:51You just said it's your first time in Boston just because we're a Celtics podcast. What are your impressions?

02:56Impressions are beautiful. There's like a high sense of like excellence and education history here

03:02You know, I can't even explain it

03:03But I feel it in the air and being from LA born and raised Laker fan. No disrespect to Boston

03:08You know, we did the three Pete. I'm outside running around my grandparents house going nuts. I've always respected Boston

03:14I've always respected the Celtics. I mean you guys are the reigning champions now, so it feels good to be here

03:18It's like perfect action

03:20Damn, I love that. Okay. Well, we have a lot to talk about

03:22Let's um, let's talk about the film first and then I've got some basketball questions. Yeah, I believe it's current. You were also the reigning

03:30Scoring champion for the NBA Celebrity All-Star Game. So I was

03:3623 this last one. I didn't participate. So I think someone else is broke. I don't play. Yeah

03:41I mean he played they let him play at like 30 minutes

03:43I think I played 15 minutes and got 22 points or something like that. There's a coaching decision

03:48Yeah, coach. You said fat Joe Lisa Leslie. I love you still but come on now

03:53Okay, let's talk about the film and then I have a thousand more questions than I realized

03:57So the film like we said in our intro that maybe is going to be recorded in the future

04:03Sweetwater Chronicles Nat Sweetwater Clifton. He's the first black man to sign an NBA contract

04:09Celtics fans will know Chuck Cooper was the first black man to be drafted in the NBA and Earl Lloyd was part of that class

04:15as well regardless

04:17Sweetwater really has you know, he's a big part of that story. I'm curious ever prior to the film how

04:23Familiar with his story were you I was not familiar at all actually

04:27Yeah, I was a film

04:28I think I think as far as I would go back just from my basketball knowledge is like Bill Russell

04:32You know guys Jerry was Pete Maravich, but I didn't I didn't really know where started and who you know was inspiration

04:41Yeah, I think films like this are important for that reason. I mean

04:45It's dramatized to a sense Justin and I have like a few nitpicky NBA history things. They could have changed but

04:51it's gonna introduce people to the story that

04:54Certainly from a like basketball perspective is really exciting. So

04:58not only hopefully, you know will

05:01Illuminate people to history and

05:03To an important barrier being broken. I have questions now that you you know the story you inhabited the story you were the story

05:09What is something about it that has just like stuck with you, you know

05:13Like you see a movie and there's just like a hanging, you know

05:16There's sometimes you can't get something out of your head. Is there anything from this film that like was really hung around? I

05:21Think the values of like

05:24Helping each other as human beings, you know

05:26Just to see when Sweetwater was pursuing greatness on his journey of loving the game and all the obstacles he hid

05:32Just to see like how that but away

05:34He was either fighting for people on his team or there was someone that was fighting for him or coaches to break down doors

05:41You know for him to create that change

05:43So I think that's something that just stuck with me is just like the power community helping people

05:47Leaning in on your own personal journey where you could feel lonely

05:50You know of like having this goal or not knowing what your goal is or having this purpose and then just randomly people start

05:58Aligning with you and then you look back and realize you just broke and made history, you know, you just did something magical

06:04So I think that's something that stuck with me

06:06Wow, well, my next question was what do you think you've learned about advocacy, but maybe you just answered that

06:12Advocacy is everything

06:14Advocacy advocacy for self first is

06:18important

06:19Understanding your values are important first and foremost and if you don't know your values is about understanding

06:24What do you not want? I think that can help you just what do you say? No, too

06:28I think it's very important to lead you to advocacy

06:30For example Sweetwater knew that no matter how hard he played he knew the value of the Harlem Globes

06:36The only black team they ended up beating the Los Angeles Lakers, right?

06:41the world champions

06:43You're not gonna accept less than you're not gonna not accept equal pay

06:47You know from other people once you realize how great you actually are and then once you realize how great you are

06:53There's no negotiating. It's like consistently leaning into that

06:56So I think advocacy is very important to know who you are first and how you can show up in the world

07:00And then of course obstacles in life

07:02We're gonna try to like make you think you're not who you are

07:05Or not really desire what you really think you can do, but you got to keep pushing towards that and have faith

07:09So I think advocacy for yourself and people showing up for you is important

07:13so Boston's Jalen Brown is

07:17Advocating like in five different directions at once. He's doing practical things

07:22I don't know if you read about this. He wants to bring back or bring rather black Wall Street to Boston

07:28He's looking at ways to specifically impact

07:32Business owners local communities things like that. What do you think of either Jalen Brown's brand of advocacy or just like this era of NBA?

07:39advocacy writ large

07:41Big shout-outs Jalen Brown. I

07:44Think I mean what's a cow right? I mean, I think yeah, you know, I'm a Cali native

07:48So I love what he's doing and I think that I don't think this is a new thing. I

07:54Think he's connected to his roots. We look at Bill Russell

07:57Right Bill Russell advocated for humanity very heavily in social activism

08:03To whatever degree I think now as these generation we take it further. That's responsibility

08:07I think Jalen Brown is a part of that tree. So salute to him

08:10I think when you're part of sports, which is so beautiful, right? It brings everybody together people are involved

08:16There's a responsibility to influence people whether you want to or not

08:20So, you know leaning into that power though the most positive way is always important and I salute it. I

08:26Love that. So

08:28If you're watching on YouTube, you can tell I'm I'm a high school history teacher by day. This isn't just my role in the classroom

08:36And ever I have sometimes experience, you know when you have tough conversations in the classroom

08:42But they're like important conversations to have I'm really proud that I get to you know

08:46Be that person for my students, but it can be really heavy. It can be exhausting

08:52like sometimes it's just like puts you in a mood and

08:55Parts of this film or you know, it's about triumph but parts of the film are really heavy

08:59Some of the language is really heavy. I'm curious just like as an actor. What was it like to?

09:03Inhabit that time and that space and that vocabulary

09:09Not easy

09:12Part of it is you reach the emotions. I think I went through every emotion frustration and anger

09:20You know love hey

09:23Questioning your worthiness. Am I good enough?

09:26You know, I'm just speaking from that space of like receiving and going through these

09:30Emotions and these dialogues of what was going on during that time in 1950s being a black man or being someone that

09:38You know was underprivileged of trying to reach to some type of degree. It was tough for me

09:44It was tough to endure that and to go through it

09:46But I had to do it because Sweetwater went through it and you don't know what's on the other side

09:50He didn't know he was gonna be this great, you know, trail blazing heroic figure

09:55You never know who you're gonna be. You're just taking life on

09:58Not knowing what's gonna be on the other side, but you just have a resolve to fight

10:02So that's what I felt and I went through it and I'm so grateful

10:07For that journey and it's a truly a gift that I still cherish to this day

10:11That scene from the movie where you guys break down at the gas station and you run into that guy

10:19I won't I won't spoil it people who haven't seen it yet

10:23But I don't think people realize one that you know tour buses run out of gas sometime back in that era

10:30And it wasn't that crazy of a thing to happen given the budget they were working with

10:34But also the reception that your character received and how tense that moment was

10:39I think it was really it was really honest of the movie to include that and

10:45you know, it's

10:47It's not the

10:49Ideal kind of a situation quite obviously, but to gloss over that element of

10:57NBA history, I think would have been a mistake and I'm actually really glad they engaged with it. I

11:02Am too and just to lean in a little bit more with that. You see the basketball player you see these Supreme athletes

11:08But they're human beings first

11:10Doesn't matter the color. We're all human beings first

11:12There's a man under there with a heart has emotions and enduring some of those things are traumatic quite literally

11:18It gives you trauma. It gives you anxiety

11:21It makes you instills you with fear

11:24So to understand that to experience that and to create space for that

11:30And just see people as human beings and not just these superhuman athletes

11:33That's gonna giddy up and do whatever you tell them to do is very important and pivotal and the NBA

11:38Experienced that right the players experienced that but we've been evolving and but there's things that are still you know

11:44Still happen to this day that are important to just see me in this for us to understand history

11:47So I'm happy they put in the film shout out to martini shout out to the NBA and all the producers attached

11:54I'm gonna change gears because I have things I won't ask you on but that's so beautifully put

11:59I it occurs to me a big thing

12:01I tell my students is history is not inevitable. And so for you as the actor to inhabit Sweetwater as a character who

12:08as an actor who knows what happens next, but the character doesn't it's such an interesting challenge like

12:13I

12:15That tension with my students is real

12:16They kind of just like know when there's a happy ending or a sad ending but to kind of get in the space of like

12:21You're just in the moment

12:23This is so different. I'm on a much less

12:28Consequential scale so you played college basketball. I think you're six four. Is that correct? I am with shoes without him

12:35I guess I'm six thirty who knows

12:37I'm a few inches shorter than that with even with shoes as a

12:42so the film

12:44Is believable in part because it's star yours

12:48Here's truly can hoop. What is it like to be an actor?

12:53Who's also an athlete playing with actors who are maybe not athletes. Although

12:58You didn't play with some athletes, right? I did, you know, I mean as all actors in the community

13:04I think we will all say we are artistic athletes

13:07I think there's a physicality to acting that you may miss or you may not think about but it is definitely a physical space

13:14Like there's a physical medium truthfully

13:16So the fact that I've had that experience

13:18It just allows me to transfer those skills into the space of acting and it all it all goes together

13:24But the tricky part though was man. Listen, I didn't play ball in

13:281950 so

13:30To not take my skills up to this new age and not have them

13:35You know bleed over into the truth of this story was the challenge and that's why I had to just you know

13:41Really go to a space of not knowing and really learn the game from the beginning in a new way

13:46And I had a great people a great cast around me

13:49We had actual Harlem Globe charters that were part of the organization on the I was gonna ask us some of those tricks, man

13:57I mean, I was amazed. So so when you asked me camera, how did you you know as the actor stay present?

14:02Not knowing what's gonna happen. I think that's the beautiful thing about casting, right?

14:06Legitimate people where things are popping up that I don't expect legitimate

14:11Actors and athletes we had, you know, Bobby Portis, you know, he's out there, too

14:16So, I mean we had real actors and athletes so it was a live

14:20Experience of this fun. You didn't know what's gonna happen next and I think the film represents that too when you watch it

14:26So it's funny you mentioned playing like you were playing in the 50s

14:30I hadn't occurred to me how different would be but it did occur to me that you put you played in Converse

14:36What what's your preferred basketball shoe now in 2024 and was it different to play in

14:42What can only be described as not as supportive sneakers?

14:45Yeah, you know actually I was wearing Converse big shout out to Converse because I mean it started with them

14:50Right, and you know, I was dunking shooting dribbling, you know, everything felt great to be honest

14:57I didn't really think about it

14:59Just kind of enjoyed the shoes of the time where we're at

15:03You know, I mean I did have my own personal insoles in there just for my feet

15:08But I mean the Converse felt good. I don't really haven't played ball in a while truthfully

15:14but

15:16You know, I love I love I

15:19Love bronze shoes. KD's Kyrie's, you know, I love them all man. I haven't really played ball in a while though

15:26You know Converse recently sent me something

15:28I tell myself if I go play I'll put them on to see the outfit with some new shoes. So we'll see

15:33Cool. I like that. Do you know what you're gonna wear on Sunday to the film festival? I

15:38Don't know man. I might I might wear some Chuck's or I might wear some classic shoes. I don't know

15:43We're gonna see I don't know

15:45Yeah

15:48Chucks I don't know his dress shoes and Chuck's one of them

15:50I mean the Chuck's are fitting more eyes are gonna be on you than me quite frankly, but I haven't decided either

15:56Man dress up. Hey show out. This is Boston. This is your city, right? Yeah

16:01They call it my city you got a dress like you've been you got a dress like it. All right, cool. Yeah

16:06No, I look good. You'll see me. Well, actually I have no idea what's gonna happen

16:09I don't know if you'll see me, but if you see a handsome gentleman from afar you saw it's me

16:13Oh, yeah, of course, of course, of course. Yeah

16:19Okay. Well, so we told you it would be a type 15 we're running out of time

16:22But I want to ask about this celebrity all-star game. So just give us the hits like what was that experience?

16:27All-star weekend is is nutty. There's a million people a thousand things going on. Were you ever starstruck? I mean

16:36I'm just a kid from LA. My people are from Alabama and Detroit man. I just grew up loving the game

16:41I didn't think I was gonna end up on the world's greatest stage. I got Shaq watching me dunk

16:44I'm doing a diesel muscle in front of them

16:48I mean, I got you know, Lisa Leslie coaching me Dwayne Wade trying to stop me from scoring

16:54I mean, it was beautiful to see the NBA players show me respect

16:57I guess Adam Silver said that the all-star game I played in was the most competitive

17:01Game or event that whole weekend during that time. I'm picking up full court

17:05Yeah, I'm saying so I took a serious we elevated the game

17:09The beautiful part was we played in Utah, which is where I played my first college basketball game

17:14I only played four minutes because my coach didn't put me in a game and I was so sad

17:18I couldn't play but five six years later. That's where I end up breaking the scoring record for the all-star game

17:22So, you know, you never know what can happen when you keep faith

17:26Yeah, I'm I bet that kid who played the first game in Utah did not expect what was coming next

17:30Not at all not dream come true

17:33So, uh, let's I got two questions for you. First. Let's make the bosses happy

17:38Sweetwater Angel Studios worldwide premiere as a Sunday. What's your elevator pitch for the movie if you're if someone's like, hey

17:45Should I watch it? What do you think I

17:48Technically don't have an elevator pitch

17:51It's a it's a great movie it's a great movie about

17:55You know one of the greatest trailblazers in history

17:59involved in one of the most influential sports in history and

18:03When it comes to Boston since we are gonna be in Boston and Angel Studios is doing the worldwide premiere here

18:08I think Boston actually represents

18:11Basketball in the world stage at this point being the reigning champions being the history that's been here

18:16So if you love the game if you love Boston

18:18It's a culmination that it's a unique opportunity to just be in the room, you know

18:23I don't think this happens all the time. And I think it's a it's beautiful if you love the game

18:28You love family and you want to learn and be you know, have fun. You can bring whoever to this event

18:34This is definitely a communal experience that I think you leave a better person

18:39All right, fantastic. That's beautiful. And um, so ever Osborne your final question on the Celtics lab podcast

18:44You do not need to butter our buns here. Who do you have winning the NBA title next season?

18:54Just speak your truth you

18:56Don't worry about the banner. That's you know on the page here, you know

19:01This is this is off left, but I grew up with my boy Spencer

19:04Then with Ian I saw him not too long ago, and he just went to Dallas. So he's an LA native

19:09So I'm gonna go I'm gonna go close to one of my homies that I grew up with and just say Dallas

19:13My race will win it

19:14Wow, all right. Well, how's this if it's math Celtics in the finals again?

19:19I'm gonna reach out to your agent. You got to come back on. Hey, I'm back on if Madison sells this man. I'm there

19:24All right deal

19:26Alright, well ever Osborne

19:28Hopefully I see you this Sunday at the Boston Film Festival for the worldwide premiere of Angel Studios film Sweetwater

19:36Starring Everett Osborne up next on our podcast

19:41Justin is going to talk to Chuck Cooper the third and who is going to receive the humanitarian of impact change award at this film

19:48Festival, so we're gonna welcome back onto the podcast Chuck Cooper

19:51But until then Everett if I don't see on Sunday have fun and congrats big event

19:57Fellas, thank you so much. It's been an honor

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20:53Okay, I am here with a very special guest. Thank you cam for setting this up

20:59I'm here with Chuck Cooper the third and if that name sounds familiar

21:03he's been on this podcast before and

21:06Probably more importantly because he has the same name as his dad who's pretty famous

21:11We are going to talk to him about his dad

21:13But we are also going to talk to him about the context of an award that Chuck

21:19His son is getting at the Boston Film Festival

21:23at the screening of a movie called Sweetwater

21:27Which is about the first black players who played in the what became the NBA but started as the basketball Association of America

21:35So first of all, um, I check how you doing?

21:38Great, Justin. Thanks for having me on. Thanks cam

21:41Now Kim sends his regards. Uh, he said he ran into you in Dallas at the NBA Finals. What was that?

21:48like

21:49Well, I'll tell you what actually was in Boston. Okay, and it was game five. So I think that

21:57It was fantastic. I I tell you what when that confetti went off

22:01I mean, I think just just I think first of course I've thought about my dad, you know my dad

22:08Bob Cousy it was it was a rookie with my father and it was read our backs first year with the Celtics and that was

22:15The Celtics first winning season and I think that felt that you know, knowing that my father, you know helped build a foundation

22:24But when that confetti fail, I tell you what there was I've never felt anything like that. It's just a noise

22:30I just took a minute just to just stop and just look in and really take it in and it's just so proud

22:35We and I tell people all the time Justin, you know, we could not have picked a better organization to be historically

22:43Forever historically connected to the Celtics are just an incredible organization. And I mean this in their DNA

22:49They drafted my father and officially broke the color barrier in

22:531950 they put the first back starting five on the court of the great Bill Russell the first the first black coach and

23:01Today they have Boston Celtics United which does great work in the community

23:06So just blessed and honored to be a part not only a part of but a partner with the Boston Celtics

23:11Very cool. So those are a lot of things that I wanted to talk to you about so

23:16Being the son of the first black man to be drafted in the NBA the film Sweetwater

23:22Deals with a lot of what was going on in that era

23:26There was some expectations that

23:31Chuck Cooper's Sweetwater Nat Clifton

23:35They play with a tension between who was going to be first to actually play in a game and then when we saw they were

23:40Treated when they were actually in a game

23:43Wasn't the best as many things were in that era for people of color

23:48Russell later refused his Hall of Fame ring before your father was inducted

23:52Could you tell us a little bit about how that all went?

23:55So Bill Russell would have been the first African American to be inducted into the Naismith Hall of Fame and

24:02Being a great person and their civil rights pioneer that he is

24:05He said there's no way I'm gonna be the first when I stood on the shoulders of guys like Chuck Cooper

24:11So he refused to accept his ring and it just so happened that you know

24:16he was one of my father's a Hall of Fame presenters and

24:20They end up getting the same

24:232019

24:25Edition of the of the ring so I just can't thank Bill Russell enough

24:31You know between that and in the push that we had to make, you know, it was interesting that you know

24:36Pittsburgh doesn't have a professional team and my father died relatively young. So there was really no one

24:42Advocating and pushing for him until until I came along. So

24:47We're thankful or blessed that he finally got in and was recognized by a tremendous group of Hall of Famers

24:53So can't think Bill Russell just what what a great man

24:56What a tremendous loss not just to the Boston Southeast family to NBA but to the world

25:00But here Bill will always be be in our hearts

25:03And you know Bill is my favorite player of all time

25:06That's because he was the most winning player of all time

25:09But really more so because of what he did off of the court now

25:13Your father may have been the first black player to play on a basketball court for the NBA who was drafted

25:20But he was also a pretty active person on the court

25:25He was a very active person on the court. He was a very active person

25:29But he was also a pretty active person off the court and similar things. Could you tell me a little bit about that?

25:36So yeah, so, you know not only breaking the color barrier in the NBA

25:41The first thing he did that was rare back in

25:441960 after he retired from the NBA

25:46She went to the University of Massachusetts and got his master's degree

25:49Right, and then he came back to Pittsburgh

25:52The reason why he did that I think is kind of kind of appropriate to share

25:55With the audience the reason why he got his master's degree because he wanted to come back to Pittsburgh and

26:00built a community and leave and

26:03The positions that that would afforded him the opportunity to do that. They were like, oh, well you you know

26:08You got that you have to have a master's degree

26:11To be

26:12In order to get this job, so he went and got his master's degree and came back

26:16Now once he got his degree he he leveraged that and became

26:21Pittsburgh National Bank, which is now PNC their first black executive and also the first black city department head and

26:30Pittsburgh's

26:31History when he was appointed Parks and Recreation by then mayor Pete Flaherty

26:35So he continued to break barriers. The only downside of that Justin is you know, whenever you're the first doing anything

26:44It causes wounds and leaves scars, you know

26:48It's just so stressful and many of his friends and even my mom said they think that someone that stress

26:54Of always doing things for others and breaking those barriers and taking you know, everything that he had to take to open those doors

27:01You know it took a toll on him, but I but knowing him I don't think he would have did anything differently

27:07You know, he was just that type of person that believed in you know, helping others and and leading by example

27:13so

27:15You kind of alluded to this earlier, but you have also taken up the mantle of his work in the Chuck Cooper foundation

27:23Give us an idea of what that organization is about what it does and what it's doing

27:28So I started a foundation. I'm giving back to the community pretty much most of my adult life

27:33I started after-school program

27:34Back when I was a young man and was going there pretty much every day after work when I was young enough to be doing

27:39a lot of other different things

27:41but back in

27:432009 Duquesne University where my dad's alma mater

27:47Approached me and they wanted to do a basketball game and I said, you know what?

27:50I would love to do it

27:51But I'll never do anything in my father's name that doesn't have an educational

27:54Component as he believed so much in the importance of education matter of fact his both his parents were college-educated

28:01Which was rare. They had teaching certificates

28:04so I

28:05formed a form to Chuck Cooper foundation with some very talented of

28:10People here in Pittsburgh and we decided to give graduate-level scholarships, you know tied in with his legacy

28:16And we started giving scholarships back in 2011 and to date we've awarded over

28:22$400,000 in graduate scholarship support

28:26to probably about a hundred students now

28:29And we also do outreach to high school middle school age students

28:33You know, I teach them about my father's legacy and importance of education and being good citizens

28:38And then we've been able to partner with the boss of Celtics and we have the Chuck Cooper fellow

28:43We're working on a third Chuck Cooper fellow now who helps the Celtics through their

28:47Social justice initiatives that they have so, you know, I just always wanted to make sure I wanted to do two things Justin

28:54I want to make sure that my father wasn't forgot about and then I want to carry his legacy of giving back and

29:00helping people

29:02and and we've been successful in doing that and you know the

29:06Have an opportunity to come to Boston this weekend and and receive the the Boston Films Festival

29:13humanitarian impact a change award, you know just speaks volumes to the

29:18Commitment and impact that we've had as a foundation. So I I can't thank them enough and I can't think I got a shout-out

29:24my man

29:26Martine GG

29:28I'm sorry, Martine Gigi the the writer and director of the film. Everybody screws his name up. I'm sorry mark

29:35but uh Martine, but uh, but uh, you know, I can't thank him enough for for

29:40For allowing me to come up for a premiere and a film festival for for recognizing the work of the Chuck Cooper Foundation

29:46It's shedding light on our work in our organization

29:49Very cool. I got a chance to see the film very recently

29:53Recommended it's a window into an era if you think that the they might be portraying the

30:01Racism that they experienced at the time

30:02Let me be very frank and say from everything that I read that was a much lighter

30:07Version of some of the things that they have done. Yeah. Yeah

30:12So tell us a little bit about the film since we since we're on the topic

30:16I got some other stuff related to the foundation and such that you mentioned, but let's let's talk about the phone

30:21What are your thoughts about it?

30:23So I really gotta take my hat off to Martine Gigi for doing it

30:28I know he he initially tells a story that he went to the Hall of Fame back in the mid 90s

30:32And he learned about Earl Lloyd Chuck Cooper and that Sweetwater Clifton. He's from New York

30:36So, you know, he kind of had an affinity to the Sweetwater, but Sweetwater's a tremendous player

30:41But you know for him to get this done and sheer light light on the pioneers, you know

30:46We're going to the 75th year anniversary of that barrier being broken and I have to really take my hat off to the NBA

30:53They're gonna do some phenomenal things to recognize the pioneers and I can't wait to see the laundry list that they have in mind

30:59Starting April 25th of next year, which is the anniversary of the Celtics drafted my father

31:05But you know to see the pioneers on a big screen and he wanted to make the the movie for all the right reasons

31:11He got a great lead and Everett Osborne who is not only passionate about basketball, but he's a tremendous actor

31:19So, yeah, I just you know what it I actually got to tell you a story

31:24So there's a scene in there with Walter Brown and red art back

31:27you know when Walter Brown's at the table and they draft my father and

31:31It's the first time I see any actor playing my father on the big screen and I and I got emotional

31:38So I you know, I I know that you know the limitations of Hollywood

31:42They probably didn't dig it deep into you know, kind of the experiences of what the pioneers went through

31:47You know, a lot of people don't know that the early african-american pioneers the black the first black players. They weren't brought in there to

31:55Put up shots. They were brought in to rebound and to be shut down defenders

32:00Which my father they sailed out Sweetwater sailed out

32:02my father actually was named to the all-rookie team and

32:06And you know just to give you a little bit of something to think about my father was in contention

32:11For rookie of the year and eventually Bob Cousy got it, but he's he's in contention and he's primarily a rebounder

32:19a

32:20Shutdown defender in a shot blocker

32:21He wasn't he didn't have the opportunity to put up a lot a lot of points if you go back and look at look at

32:26The stats he didn't have a whole lot of field goal attempts

32:29And he was a driver and a slasher and the thing about my dad and Sweetwater

32:34You know, he both were teammates with the Harlem Globetrotters

32:37Prior to playing in the NBA a lot of people don't know that my father's first professional contract was with the Harlem Globetrotters

32:44But he didn't sign it. He had heard about how a treated some of the players and he wouldn't sign

32:49So when when when when the Celtics drafted him, he was in the clear because he had a handshake agreement, but a Sweetwater's case

32:56You know, he was signed and the Knicks had to purchase his contract

33:00So he became the first to own a contract

33:02But I think the story with I think what the story does do well

33:05What the movie does do well is to is to let you know that these guys were great players

33:09Sweetwater was a tremendous basketball player

33:12And if they if those pioneers would have been when afforded the opportunity really played our games

33:16They would be in the history books

33:18for the numbers that they put up not just for being the pioneers and

33:23Carrying the league on their back as breaking that barrier as they did, you know back in 1950

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34:43Yeah, it was really interesting to see the nuance he put into trying to reflect the actual culture that people were living in at

34:50That time and like how issues of style of play

34:54Were actually a barrier to white people at the time who thought that they their audience didn't want that despite the very clear evidence

35:02to the contrary until the ticket sales

35:04right, just

35:05Sometimes I think there's myopia that is cultural as well as situational

35:11Which the glow charters by the way, Justin

35:14really

35:15You know a lot of people don't know is that the heart and glow charters defeated the Minneapolis Lakers back in

35:221947 and again in 1948 and and that was big George Micah who was the dominant player?

35:27That was the shack of the era and with my dad wasn't on that team

35:30by the way

35:31But Sweetwater was and when they beat the globe charters that let him know that the the African American players could play

35:37To the NBA standard, right?

35:40But more importantly one of the reasons why the league was slow to integrate Abe Saperstein had an unwritten rule

35:46With the owners of the league

35:48The glow charters would come in and play double hitters

35:51With the NBA because they would draw more fans because they they could play serious ball

35:56Like I said, they beat the Lakers

35:57But they also did their tricks and had their flair and that attracted a lot of fans

36:01so and particularly in Walter Brown's case Walter Brown had just mortgaged his house and

36:07Abe Saperstein made it clear that if you draft a black player

36:10I'm not gonna play that game and that game would sell out and then let the most arenas

36:16The garden was one of them and

36:18Without that game. It was difficult to meet without those games with the globe. It was difficult to meet your payroll

36:24So I know that's one thing my father. I heard him say how much respect he had for Walter Brown

36:28For selecting him knowing that he you know

36:31Had some financial difficulties and the Abe was gonna take that game away from him and he did it anyway

36:37And when he stood up at the end, it's a it's a it's depicted in the in a movie when he stood up

36:42At the draft he said listen Boston takes Chuck Cooper to all-american out of Duquesne University

36:48Another owner said you can't take him. He's colored

36:50I'm sure it was a different word, but you know, who knows and Walter Brown said I'm Boston tastes Chuck Cooper

36:56I don't give a damn if he's striped pulled out a plan and that just reflects the Celtics organization even today

37:03Like how you point out to the financial realities that the league was dealing with men because people think NBA they think millions of dollars

37:10Large amounts of money huge amounts of interest and in that era, it was barely more organized in like some pickleball weeks today

37:17You know, it's just like by a shoestring

37:20Yeah, it was not a minor risk on his part at all. Right, right

37:24So another thing that I wanted to touch on

37:28and is this foundation the Chuck Cooper Foundation and the what it has in common with the NBA in terms of

37:35How it chooses to operate in people's lives to help them which is not a

37:40Traditional charity approach where you just give them something and that's the end of the relationship

37:45There is a conscious effort to grow community to emphasize things like education

37:51and things to create

37:54equity in the community where

37:57People can then continue to grow on their own

38:01Not in this endless cycle of just needing more charity from someone at some point in the future

38:05Which is something we are also starting to see some players

38:09Like Jalen Brown the Drew and Lauren holiday foundation

38:12They are also using similar approaches with things like the exchange slash black Wall Street

38:18I was wondering if you had any thoughts on those organizations and what they are doing

38:23I know you guys are working together with the Celtics. Just curious like your take on

38:29This general approach in

38:31more of a broad sense

38:33Well, first of all, my hat goes off to Drew and Jalen and I'm a little more familiar with with Jalen Brown's

38:40Foundation I've got a chance to have several conversations with Jalen not long ones

38:44But I've met him on a few occasions and I know where his heart is and he's just a phenomenal

38:49person and you know, not only do the black Wall Street, but you know, he invests so much in young people and

38:55You know, that's the passion of the Chuck Cooper Foundation and with with us, you know, even though we give the scholarships

39:02You know, we have a program all of our scholarship recipients are truly beacons of light

39:07There's some phenomenal young people but with that scholarship is a give-back component, you know

39:12They have to go out with me to give in front of young people

39:14We call it some people call it giving back we call it playing it forward and and and they're just phenomenal

39:20Examples of people and they share their stories of success. They share their trails and tribulations

39:25They share best practices to help people get

39:30Out of high school and in the college or in the career. So it's just so important to pay it forward

39:36You know, we live in a world that you know, we live in one of the greatest countries in the world

39:41but then we have elements that that are

39:45Divisive now they wanted to divide us so I think now more than ever, you know

39:51We need you know, I always say this

39:53you know now I

39:55really think that life is about it's not a white or black thing or

40:01Shouldn't be if we can get to the point where it's good versus evil

40:06We're when regardless of your color your creed your religion

40:10If you're good if you're a good person if the good people of the world could come together

40:14We can win and we will continue to have the greatest country in the world

40:18If we could just get good people to line up like Jalen Brown like Drew Holland like the holidays

40:25To do great things in the world and make a difference

40:28I think I such huge platforms

40:29Right, and they're doing all the doing all the right things and just great examples to our young they inspire me

40:36They inspire me, you know, cuz I did it as a young man

40:39They inspire me to keep it going and not to give up

40:41So I might my hat really goes out to not only them but again to the Boston Celtics organization who you know

40:48It was really a star amongst a great league

40:50That's something there's some teams doing some great things

40:53But the Celtics organization remain not just because of their championships, but what they do in the communities and off the court as well

41:01So I don't want to take up too much of your time

41:03You've been very generous with me so far, but I do have a pressing question

41:08That cam may or may not have put me up to

41:11In terms of how he framed it. Oh, no, you've heard a lot about expansion

41:17I imagine as the rest of us have and the NBA kind of putting it off for a little bit

41:21But it seems like it's going to happen at some point

41:23the

41:25primary places where it's been discussed have been

41:28Seattle as it should be with the historic nature of that that particular situation and then also maybe Las Vegas now

41:36Let's assume that either

41:37It's not Las Vegas for some reason because there has been some pushback from the league that it's definitely going to be those two locations

41:43Mexico City where I live is another popular one. We don't need to expound that anymore. I've done that so much

41:49I'm sure my guests do not want to hear it anymore, but

41:53Can bring up the opportunity of a particular city that might make Midwest

41:59Road trips go a little bit less chaotic by having something, you know in between

42:04Indianapolis and say I don't know the the Mid-Atlantic region. I think you know where I'm going with this

42:11NBA team in Pittsburgh. Do you think would be viable like what's your pitch if you were to try to convince the NBA why?

42:19Well Pittsburgh would be a great location because it's a great city, it's a growing city

42:24You get great universities like like Duquesne the University of Pittsburgh CMU

42:28You get great hospital systems something that we have in common with the Boston community, but it's just it's a growing community

42:37And you know we have the so when when when when the ABA came into existence

42:43Pittsburgh had a team and we won the first ABA championship

42:48It was the it was the the Pittsburgh Pipers, okay

42:52Pittsburgh hybrid the Ironman played in the you're correct. The Ironman did play in the in the in the pre-nba league

42:58NBL. Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah, that's right. Matter of fact. It's the Ironman my dad scrimmaged against the Ironman

43:04That's the first time he realized that he actually had NBA talent

43:08But Pittsburgh would be a great location, but I tell you what, I'm close enough to the NBA

43:12I know they got much smarter minds than me. They're

43:16They're figuring it out, but I would love to get a team of Pittsburgh

43:18And I'll tell you what if we can't get an NBA team of Pittsburgh, I would love to have a WNBA team

43:23Oh, yes. I mean that league is growing and going I think I think

43:28You know with Kaitlyn Cart

43:30I mean, you know, I mean, you know, I mean, you know, I mean, you know, I mean, you know

43:34I think um, uh, you know with Kaitlyn Clark Clark and Angel Reese and what um, and what uh, I'm blanking on her name

43:42Um that just broke the scoring record. Uh

43:46Aja Wilson

43:48Aja Wilson. Oh my good. Sorry Aja if you see that

43:51But I mean, she's just she she's a goat

43:53I I get a saying because I don't believe there's such thing as the greatest of all time

43:57There's greatest of all times. It's the greatest of a time of a time. There you go. Yep

44:02Yep, she she and I but I will say certain people run with the herd. She runs with the goats

44:07I mean, she's just a phenomenal player. So

44:10Hey, Justin, if we can't get an NBA team, i'll be honest as a native pittsburgher

44:15You know, I can always come to boston and watch my celtics and and stay home with pittsburgh and watch our WNBA team

44:21But I I hope we certainly get one or the other that's for sure and I appreciate you asking me that question

44:26Of course

44:27Uh anything you want to plug for the foundation or anything else that's coming up?

44:32Well again, you know what the uh foundation, uh, you know, we got some great projects working on

44:37We're looking at doing some things in pittsburgh that we haven't really talked about publicly yet, but it arounds a major

44:43it's it it it um

44:45It encompasses doing a major building in pittsburgh. Um,

44:49Chuck cooper museum type of a building. Uh, we've got uh, uh, uh, uh,

44:54We got a grant from a great organization the r.k. Mellon foundation to to begin to look at that

45:00So and then we also have the chuck cooper house that we want to redo as well so that that's on our horizons. Um,

45:08At the nba level again, we have the 75th, um year anniversary coming up

45:12I'm looking forward to put my heads together with the with the celtics to see how we can celebrate. Um,

45:18You know the the the moment when the celtics changed the face of the nba

45:22Uh, it's just a good time. There's so many exciting things going on and I appreciate the opportunity

45:27Not only to come on here and talk about the boston film festival

45:30So i'm looking forward to being in boston, uh in the next day or two, but also the great celtics organization

45:37um the movie sweetwater

45:40And uh, and you know all the great things that are going on right now

45:43It's just a phenomenal time to to to be chuck cooper the third with all the great support

45:48Uh that we get from all those organizations that I got a chance to meet and the people

45:53That I talked about earlier in the broadcast

45:56Very cool. Hopefully with sports documentaries seem to be all the rage recently. We got a chuck cooper

46:02Sports documentary or movie feature film like sweetwater. I would love it. I would love to tell the story

46:08I will say, you know, i'm lucky that I have actually

46:11uh developed a relationship back in

46:142012 I believe the cavaliers

46:17I think it was 16 the cavaliers honored all three families with the on court celebration

46:22So I got a chance to meet kevin lloyd and uh nat sweetwater clifton's daughter jatom robinson

46:28And we've been together ever since so we now have a collaborative

46:31Where we're, you know working together and we got these mitchell nests has been going around sat here over here mitchell nests

46:38We have the pioneers edition of the church now that are available

46:41mitchellnest.com

46:44uh, so there's just some great things happening with the legacies and just looking forward to continue to

46:49To to grow them and celebrate them and and work with the nba and the celtics to do just that

46:54very cool

46:56well

46:57This episode of the celtics lab podcast is brought to you by pies prize picks the exclusive fantasy basketball partner of the cls

47:03Media network gotta pay the bills celtics lab is also brought to you by game time tickets last minute tickets lowest price

47:09Guaranteed if you're still listening and so please like and subscribe to help support the pod

47:14And be sure to check out all the other celtics and other new england sports oriented pods on the cls media network

47:20Thanks again for joining us chuck

47:22Glad to have you here. Uh next time something comes up. I hope you'll come back talk to us about it

47:28And uh, that's all I have for today

47:30Absolutely. Thank you. Justin. Appreciate you. You take great care anytime. All right. Take care

47:43Good

47:51Like you told me I should

On breaking basketball barriers and Boston w/ Chuck Cooper III and Everett Osborne | Celtics Lab

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