Who do the Celtics have the fear in the East? | Celtics Lab
While there has been plenty of excitement over the moves that other ball clubs in the NBA's Eastern Conference arms race, by and large the Boston Celtics are seen as a cut above the rest of their peers in the league's weaker conference. But those moves could make for a tougher regular season path to the 2025 NBA Playoffs, especially among teams like the New York Knicks, the Philadelphia 76ers, and maybe even the once mighty Milwaukee Bucks.
So who IS the second-best team in the East? The hosts of the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast linked up with Sports Illustrated's Bobby Krivitsky to break down the likely candidates on a recent episode of their show. They also get you up to speed on Celtics in Paris for the Olympics and plenty more.
Check out this week's latest pod and scratch your Boston basketball itch while we wait for preseason to get here in the fall.
The Celtics Lab is brought to you by Gametime.
If you enjoy this pod, check out the "How Bout Them Celtics," "First to the Floor," "Celtics Lab," and the many other New England sports podcasts available on the CLNS Media network.
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So who IS the second-best team in the East? The hosts of the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast linked up with Sports Illustrated's Bobby Krivitsky to break down the likely candidates on a recent episode of their show. They also get you up to speed on Celtics in Paris for the Olympics and plenty more.
Check out this week's latest pod and scratch your Boston basketball itch while we wait for preseason to get here in the fall.
The Celtics Lab is brought to you by Gametime.
If you enjoy this pod, check out the "How Bout Them Celtics," "First to the Floor," "Celtics Lab," and the many other New England sports podcasts available on the CLNS Media network.
*******************************************************
CLNS Media is Powered by:
Gametime - https://gametime.co
Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply.
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SportsTranscript
00:00Alrighty, welcome to the Celtics Lab podcast brought to you by PrizePix, the exclusive
00:09fantasy basketball partner of the CLNS Media Network, and by Game Time Tickets.
00:12Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed.
00:14If you like this podcast, check out the How About Them Celtics podcast, First to the Floor,
00:18and the many other New England sports podcasts available on the CLNS Media Network.
00:22I actually used Game Time Tickets last night to go watch the Red Sox kick the living hell
00:28out of the Mariners.
00:29They needed it.
00:30Yeah.
00:31And Bobby Kravitzky, our guest today from SI, knows how much I love hanging out in the
00:36bleachers at Fenway, so I'm not even moving the product.
00:40That's a true story.
00:42It's become a time-honored tradition, and this has definitely helped with purchasing
00:46tickets.
00:47Yeah.
00:48I mean, again, they are a sponsor, but it was actually super easy.
00:52I do recommend that product, which you'll hear my ad read later, and you can see how
00:58much I like it.
00:59Anyways, Bobby, you are here to help me with something.
01:02I actually only told you half of the frame for this episode, so you know that we're trying
01:07to figure out the second best team in the Eastern Conference.
01:10But what actually is happening is, so on Celtics Wire, I have been ranking the teams in the
01:16East from least worrisome for the Celtics, and I picked the Nets, up to the biggest threats
01:22to the Celtics in the East next season.
01:25I'm team number four in the ranking, so it's the Orlando Magic, and I have three teams
01:28left, and I sincerely don't know what I'm going to do if I didn't last three, and so
01:32I thought I'd just ask on the podcast.
01:35So you only knew half of that, so now you know the full story.
01:38So Bobby, in the lab portion of the programming, we'll put on our safety goggles and we'll
01:42do that.
01:43We'll do the news, but also, I haven't seen you in a while, so our listeners are just
01:48going to hear us catch up as friends.
01:50How was Vegas?
01:51Love that.
01:52Vegas was incredible.
01:53You've been before, so you know the deal, but for everyone watching and listening, it's
01:59a unique experience where most of the NBA world is in this concentrated area where you're
02:05constantly, wherever you are, running into people and getting to introduce yourself and
02:10have a level of access that, even as reporters, you might not typically have, where you're
02:16talking to people who work in front offices, you're getting to connect with different media
02:21people, whether you already knew them on social media and were friends online, or you
02:26just didn't know them at all until Summer League.
02:28You go through different resorts and casinos.
02:31Everywhere you turn, there are not just NBA players, not just Summer League guys, but
02:36recognizable household names, especially to real fans compared to the casuals.
02:41But even the casuals will know Derek Lively, for example, after the finals, or Jalen Williams
02:46on the Thunder, is someone who's playing his way onto more people's radar.
02:51So a really fun, unique experience where you get to build a relationship or even just have
02:57this brief interaction quickly with people you never would have known.
03:01Cam, I have one for you that I didn't become aware of until literally on Sunday after the
03:08Olympics.
03:09And that was, there was someone during a game who ended up standing next to where me and
03:14shout out Jack Simone were sitting.
03:16And he had a very quick interaction with us about the game that we were watching.
03:20It involved the Charlotte Hornets.
03:23And then I'm watching NBA TV, and they're doing a documentary about someone.
03:28And I'm like, oh, this is interesting.
03:31It was already on when I saw it.
03:33So I was like, I want to see who this guy is.
03:35And all of a sudden, they bring in the person who I had the interaction with.
03:39And he and the guy they were profiling are the co-founders of Summer League.
03:44Oh, that's funny.
03:45I watched that documentary.
03:47It was fantastic.
03:48And I had no idea at the time of talking to him that that's who he was.
03:52Do you remember the guy's name or no?
03:55I want to say Alan, maybe Ben.
03:57I could point him out easily.
03:58Yeah, yeah.
03:59Wow.
04:00That's so funny.
04:01Yeah, no, you've heard me say, I think Summer League is like, it's like NBA Mad Libs.
04:04Like my favorite interaction was Alonzo Mourning helped me get on the Wi-Fi.
04:09Did you did you meet anyone else of interest or talk to anyone else of interest?
04:15Yeah, I met some people in different front offices around the league, got to meet some
04:20pretty cool people in media, including had dinner with this guy, Andrew Claudio, shout
04:26out to him.
04:27So he came with me and Sam LaFrance.
04:30And so yeah, it was cool.
04:32And there's even someone who, as you know, I used to co-host a radio show.
04:39And one of my regulars is a sports handicapper.
04:41He lives in Vegas.
04:42So I got to meet him at Summer League.
04:45That's hilarious.
04:46Yeah, there's.
04:47Well, it's so funny, like being a beat reporter, you're so dialed into the Celtics that you
04:53like you are aware that there are other beats, but like tangentially, you see these people
04:59on Twitter.
05:00And yeah, I felt like Summer League or All-Star Game is kind of like that, where you're like,
05:03oh, I've seen you.
05:04I've seen a little picture of you before.
05:07And they're people like us.
05:08They're in their 20s, early 30s, maybe a little older, maybe a little younger, working hard
05:13and they like hoops and yeah, that's cool.
05:16Yeah, no, I have a bunch of now Twitter mutuals from like NBA events that I just like made
05:22small talk with.
05:23Yeah, it's people that oftentimes you're well aware of who they are thanks to social, but
05:30you've never actually interacted with them.
05:32And then all of a sudden you end up sitting next to them at a game or multiple games because
05:36you can just be there all day.
05:38And all of a sudden you're spending a couple hours with them getting to know each other.
05:42It's pretty cool.
05:43Same, same, but different.
05:44I have a story in a second that is going to sound braggadocious.
05:49But then off, I have some news I can't tell you, can't tell other people yet that I can't
05:53wait to brag to you about.
05:55But um, how was the heat?
05:57It was like the hottest Vegas.
05:58Oh, and it rained.
05:59Were you guys there when it rained?
06:02Um, yeah, but it was like, like flooded, right?
06:05It was inconsequential.
06:06Put it that way.
06:07It was at night.
06:09There is a funny story involving other people where basically someone wanted to walk in
06:13the middle of the thunder and the lightning.
06:16I wonder if you can figure out who, I'll obviously tell you off air, but try to come up with
06:19a guess and then we'll see if you get it right.
06:22Someone wanted to walk through the thunder and the lightning.
06:25One person lugging equipment around had no interest in that, wisely.
06:30And so, uh, ended up in an Uber and to dinner we went.
06:34Yeah, half this podcast is going to be off air.
06:37Um, so for people who are still listening, like we'll do our usual stuff, but, uh, Justin
06:43is traveling and Alex had, uh, car problems and then they were worse than he thought.
06:49So Bobby was nice enough to come on as a guest and now he's coming on as like doing a heavy
06:54lift and we're selfishly just like not even doing our jobs because I haven't seen Bobby
07:00in a while.
07:01I miss the homies so much.
07:02I've been texting Turpin so much.
07:05We're trying to arrange a pilgrimage to, uh, his local watering hole.
07:10Oh, you know, I'm all over that.
07:13We're trying to make it happen for, he's got a vacation lined up soon.
07:18Okay.
07:19Um, Volo, the basketball league that I do, they offer court rentals for pickleball and
07:26maybe it's volleyball.
07:27I bet we could, they could help us rent a court for the media game that we all want.
07:35I told you, I've spoken to people from the Celtic side who want to bring it back.
07:40I wonder though, if it's like too much of a legal liability, like even that up and one
07:46of them who in particular loves to hoop.
07:49He didn't seem concerned with that, quite a large hand in this.
07:54Yeah.
07:55I'd be so embarrassed for him to see how bad I am at basketball.
07:58I'll tell one story and then we'll start, like, we'll start the podcast proper.
08:02So remember, uh, after the Celtics won, I was playing hoops with some big Jesus, but
08:07this guy's sales team, Rob.
08:09Yes.
08:10I hit the game winning shot.
08:11Yeah.
08:12First of all, um, head of sales for the Celtics.
08:15So not sales team, Rob, like, um, I went to the event at the garden when they unveiled
08:21that Amika is the Jersey sponsor.
08:25It wasn't super well attended, but they told us, don't worry about it.
08:28But I figured I'd go cause I'm off.
08:29Right.
08:30And I saw him and I was like, oh, sales team, Rob, how are you?
08:33And I was, I had such a great interaction with him.
08:36He was like, that was the best night of my life.
08:39That was so cool.
08:40I was like, thank God you said that because I also thought that was pretty cool.
08:43Like I was trying to play it cool.
08:45So, um, and now he's been texting me, uh, ideas for Portland, uh, for next summer.
08:52Um, but also, you know how, I don't know if you've heard this.
08:56I asked, uh, PR, Hey, who came up with hashtag different here?
09:00And when is the next, yeah, yeah, yeah.
09:03Sales team, Rob was like, oh, by the way, this is the head of marketing for the Celtics.
09:07So I met that person, um, just by way of like shaking hands.
09:11Well, I talked to the, actually I talked to like everyone on the PR team.
09:17Um, but I talked to the person that you're talking about.
09:20Um, I wonder if they listen to this podcast, like that part of their job is spot listening
09:26to these podcasts.
09:27Yeah.
09:28They've definitely listened.
09:29But do you think, I don't know.
09:31Okay.
09:32Well, if they're listening, I had a great conversation with all of you, but this one
09:34person in particular, I think it was like our, our relationship grew a little bit more
09:39because you don't get that much face time with these people.
09:41I mean, we're doing our jobs, right?
09:43Anyways, let's do our job.
09:44There's plenty of people.
09:45I mean, it's a huge organization.
09:47There's plenty of people.
09:48You can go a whole season without seeing or being aware of who they are and what their
09:53role is, let alone interacting.
09:56Or like, uh, when the cards are down, like we work in the same building, but PR and media
10:04are work together and a little are supposed to butt heads.
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11:10Speaking of butting heads, how's that for a segue?
11:14I actually don't want to do the Tatum Kerr.
11:18I don't want to relitigate that unless you have a burning hot take.
11:22I want to look ahead.
11:24It's Tuesday afternoon, Wednesday afternoon this week is when the men's team plays again.
11:28They play South Sudan.
11:30We have been told that Jason Tatum is going to play.
11:34What, Bobby, are your expectations for Tatum in that game and for the rest of the Olympics?
11:38And if you have, you know, takes on him getting a DNP, I mean, let it rip.
11:44Well, so this is the start to me of what the bigger picture that I'm more interested in.
11:51It's kind of a useless exercise to put your energy towards what's behind the benching.
11:56Was this a conspiracy?
11:58Was it a Celtics Warriors thing?
12:00Was Nike involved?
12:02All these different lanes you can go down without proving that you are correct, unless
12:07you just take Steve Kerr's word for it and say, this is the smoking gun that I need,
12:12quote unquote.
12:13But to me, what I'm more interested in is what comes next for Tatum.
12:17So that starts on Wednesday, a rematch against South Sudan, who they're certainly going to
12:23take more seriously than they did the first go around, not to mention the stakes are heavier.
12:27So I kind of think that U.S. was figuring out roles and how to play alongside each other
12:34on this star studded roster that talent wise has a pretty strong case for the greatest
12:39one the U.S. men's basketball team has ever equipped.
12:42But at the same time, I do think that they were, to an extent, coasting before getting
12:47to Paris.
12:48And so now against South Sudan, you saw what they did to Serbia, who, with all due respect,
12:53has much more talent on paper than South Sudan.
12:57I wouldn't be surprised if it's another blowout for Tatum in particular, Cam.
13:02How do you respond?
13:03That's what everything is about.
13:05And I think this could be at least if he wants to apply it that way.
13:09And a lot of athletes in his shoes, I think certainly would when you're at that stature
13:14and you're looking for any more to be motivation, source of fuel possible.
13:18If he uses this to propel him throughout the rest of his training, where it's I have to
13:23be undeniable on a level that I'm clearly not at right now.
13:27And you convince yourself of whatever you need to, to be that jetpack.
13:31I think that could really help Tatum with an ascension.
13:35You know, I wrote the night that we played pickup with sales team Rob, shout out to him.
13:39I wrote about how Tatum is a superstar who's just entering the peak of his powers at 26.
13:46He turns 27 in March.
13:48And so if you combine the relief of the championship, where he's at physically and mentally and
13:56in terms of experience, plus the slight of being the guy who showed up in 2021 when most
14:03of the stars did not come, you helped lead the USA team to a gold medal.
14:08And then on national television, you're sitting there on the bench the whole time for everyone
14:13to talk about and focus in on.
14:16How do you apply that moving forward?
14:18And if used properly for Tatum, then I think it could really help with his ascent.
14:23Yeah, actually, that's a good point.
14:26I hadn't really contextualized because what I was going to say is, have you seen the movie
14:33The Social Network?
14:34Yeah, of course.
14:36I haven't seen it, but I know there's a line where Justin Timberlake says to Jesse Eisenberg,
14:42the Mark Zuckerberg character, you know, like a million dollars is a cool, you know, it's
14:46cool, a billion dollars.
14:48And Tatum, like, thank goodness he won a title.
14:51But you know what's cooler than winning a title?
14:53Winning lots of titles.
14:55And he is behind Kevin Durant and LeBron James on the depth chart.
15:00The point that you make about like, look, he showed up in 2021 and other stars didn't
15:03necessarily, although Durant did.
15:06Like that Curry and LeBron just kind of get to coast in and out of Team USA when it suits
15:10them is a little BS compared to guys like Mello.
15:13I'm sorry to cut you off, but it's the idea that you couldn't find any minutes for him
15:18on top of from a basketball in a coaching sense, that just being wrong in my estimation.
15:24It's that this is someone who has paid his dues and was there again when a lot of the
15:29stars weren't and helped you win gold.
15:33He deserves some minutes.
15:35The DNP was unwarranted, no matter what lens you look at it from.
15:39Halliburton got a DNP too.
15:41Yes.
15:42No, no one seems to worry about that one story.
15:45Yeah.
15:46No player.
15:47They all are still.
15:48It's a different story with Halliburton and he knew it was coming because he had been
15:53pretty quickly phased out of the rotation before they got to pool play.
15:59I guess I said I didn't really want to talk about it, but here we go.
16:02I didn't find it to be that I was watching on a plane, so I like missed stretches.
16:06I like cut in and out PA announcements, whatnot.
16:10But like Durant was playing out of his mind, LeBron was playing out of his mind.
16:13The game was kind of close until like the late third quarter.
16:18So I didn't find it that egregious, but like you're right, like the pedigree that Tatum
16:21has with the program, that he's a Nike guy, that he's a Duke guy, like that unfortunately
16:26should matter.
16:27Like there are some politics that matter and it didn't seem to.
16:31I suspect, I mean, I guess the only thing that like really rubs me the wrong way and
16:35I said as much on Twitter, Steve Kerr saying, I am an idiot, like shut up, like stand,
16:42stand your ground.
16:43Like you won the game by a lot.
16:46Do you agree with your coaching or not?
16:49I thought that was super patronizing and Steve Kerr is usually smarter on a mic than that.
16:55Anyways, quickly on the Olympics, Drew and Derek have been phenomenal.
17:02Anything you want to add to that?
17:06It's why they're there.
17:07They're a perfect fit.
17:08And it's why, again, you can go into the conspiratorial nature of why Jalen Brown is not on this team.
17:16And I think there's room for USA without anything required to get communicated to them that
17:24it's understood.
17:25Grant Hill is well aware that Nike and Jalen Brown have an issue.
17:29So that could have played a factor to some extent.
17:32It is also true that Derek White, it doesn't mean Jalen wouldn't, but Derek White is the
17:40safer bet.
17:41Let's say that if he doesn't play, it's going to be fine.
17:45And that look, Jalen Brown spent time during this regular season, locking up Steph Curry
17:50for a half in Boston.
17:51But Derek White was also an all defensive team selection as a guard in area where you
17:57look at the U S roster.
17:58They could stand to add another player of that caliber to defend in the back court.
18:03So Derek White made sense and was a clean fit without any guesswork involved.
18:08It doesn't mean Jalen couldn't have resoundingly checked these boxes, but you can understand
18:14the basketball argument for Derek White replacing Kawhi Leonard.
18:19And why doesn't Derek White get the nod to begin with over Kawhi?
18:22Because that's not the way this works.
18:23And Kawhi Leonard is an absolute superstar.
18:26The U S didn't even pick a bunch of this roster.
18:28LeBron recruited them.
18:29LeBron said, I'm in, and then recruited a number of the biggest names, including Tatum,
18:34by the way, who I'm sure was going to do it no matter what, considering he went to Tokyo
18:37in 2021.
18:39But so I look at the play of those two and it helps that they have the least adapting
18:45to do right.
18:46That they got to compliment stars like Tatum and Jalen Brown during the regular season.
18:51And then it's come do the same thing and be who you were just adjusting to mostly different
18:56personnel and Drew Holliday, third leading scorer on the team, phenomenal defense.
19:01He was Drew Holliday and Derek White, same thing applies where he came in in the first
19:06half and immediately the defense and the ball movement improved.
19:10And then they started to pull away from Serbia.
19:13Yeah.
19:14It makes sense why Kawhi was on the team, but like Tatum would definitely not be playing
19:19very much if Kawhi was also on the team.
19:22So Derek, as a rule of thumb, Team USA should just add as many former Spurs as they can
19:28because those guys know how to play team basketball.
19:31And I think like to your point, I think I said this on Twitter as well.
19:34I think that's why Embiid is struggling and he's never played with, he's never had to
19:37support stars become better.
19:41Like he's stood in the corner while James Harden does James Harden stuff, but that's
19:44about it.
19:45All of these other guys have either been on Team USA or played with super duper stars
19:49or come up alongside stars.
19:53So they know how to support one another.
19:56It's clear Embiid has no clue what to do and it looks pretty ugly, but I guess if he's
20:02never experienced it.
20:04I don't think that LeBron or Durant or Steph want to dump the ball into him at the nail.
20:11And I don't think Embiid is particularly great on the short roll, catching it and trying
20:16to pass it to the corner, for example, or make that read.
20:20And so he's not a great fit in a Steve Kerr offense to begin with.
20:24Yeah, no, I, I don't understand why he would, why he wouldn't have bowed out given how his
20:33spring went, but whatever.
20:36To that though, if you're him, it's this whole concept of iron sharpens iron, and this is
20:42very much a status and a clout thing.
20:44You're there with the best in the world.
20:47You're going to win a gold medal, presumably, it's a pretty safe bet.
20:50So this is a roster and an experience that you want to both have and attach your name
20:56to, especially if he can play well enough to keep himself in the starting five.
21:01So to me, I totally get why Embiid didn't bow out.
21:06I also look at it from a coaching lens and say, those are minutes that could go to Tatum
21:11where you play less of Embiid and you're in smaller lineups that include Tatum alongside
21:17Anthony Davis or Bam Adebayo.
21:19Yeah.
21:20And I also think Tatum is so good with guys like, like, not because they're teammates,
21:25but good.
21:26I mean, he, he averaged 6.3 assists in the playoffs.
21:29So he is a good playmaker anyways.
21:34Let's pause the Olympics talk so that next week we can talk about the Olympics more.
21:39I've not cannibalized that too much.
21:41Let's let's do what we talked about at the top of the show, which is get in the Celtics
21:44lab and help me solve this problem.
21:47So basically, I think I know roughly what the power ranking in the East is, save the
21:53very top of the ladder.
21:55It's not really, I guess like I'm circling the drain on who the second best team in the
22:03East is, and then the third and fourth.
22:05I have the magic as the fifth, just because I think they have more potential to get better.
22:11And I think we know what's it, what the Pacers, the Cavs and the Heat are.
22:18But before we get into the Knicks, the Bucks and the Sixers, is there any team in like
22:24the middle of the pack in the East that you think is way better than consensus?
22:30My pick would be the magic, but I think most people are high on the magic.
22:33Yeah, I don't know about way better than consensus.
22:36I'm curious to see what happens with the Pacers.
22:39I don't anticipate them returning to the Eastern Conference finals.
22:43But what exactly does regression look like and how much of a leap does Tyrese Halliburton
22:49make?
22:50The USA experience alone typically lends itself as a boost for the next season for those who
22:55go.
22:56So we'll see with him individually and then from a team standpoint.
23:00The magic, I love the KCP pickup, Kentavius Caldwell-Pope.
23:06I still have questions for them at the point guard spot, but I love Franz and Paulo, and
23:12that's a really good team that's young and added a key veteran piece with championship
23:16experience.
23:18So I think they're going to be really tough for anyone to go head to head with.
23:22Jamal Mosley has done a fantastic job there.
23:24So that's a really good team.
23:26But like you said, maybe we end up being wrong.
23:29I still view them as like a five seed, maybe a four potentially.
23:35So the position I've been taking for this like middle crop of teams is I don't think
23:40Miami, Cleveland, or Indiana could ever be a good defensive team.
23:45They just don't have the personnel and more accurately they have too many vulnerable positions
23:51like Tyler Hero is a huge liability.
23:54Donovan Mitchell is kind of a liability.
23:57So is Garland.
23:58Yes, so is Garland if he's still on the team.
24:01Correct.
24:02And what I like about the Magic is they're not very good in offense.
24:05They don't shoot their 29th and threes last season, 29th and assists, but they also that's
24:09some they can make a jump and if they're 20th, that's going to look like a big deal.
24:15They're just like long and lanky and strong.
24:20I think that they can like muck things up on defense in a way that the rest of the middle
24:24class at least can't.
24:25So I agree with you, they have a ceiling but compared to the rest of that ilk of teams
24:33that East I think they have their counter to really best equipped to give the Celtics
24:37trouble.
24:38Because the Celtics can outscore the Pacers they can outscore the Cavs save like one or
24:43two nights when they can't have threes.
24:45Okay, so let's focus in on the Knicks, the Sixers and the Bucs.
24:52I originally Alex was going to be on and we were each going to take a team and make a
24:55case.
24:56Let's go through each one of them and think through it out loud and then we can decide
25:00what we learned.
25:01I'm going to start with the Bucs because I spent the first part of the summer saying
25:08I don't understand why they had such a lazy offseason.
25:12I don't really know what happens next.
25:14And I have a very low opinion of Damian Lillard's defense.
25:18So it seemed to me like the Bucs were the team that time forgot but Giannis is so good.
25:25Like he wasn't right last season something was off emotionally physically both like we
25:30didn't get Giannis down the stretch at the beginning of the season he was right there
25:34in the MVP race.
25:35I mean, he was arguably the MVP at times, at least like if you went under the hood with
25:40the advanced analytics.
25:42So I'm talking myself into the Bucs because Giannis is dramatically the best player in
25:47a series against the Celtics and there's no disrespect to Tatum or Brown but what Giannis
25:52can do just because of his like physical gifts is unmatched.
25:58I think the obvious reasons to not think of the Bucs as the biggest foe for the Celtics
26:05is again Damian Lillard is baby food on defense and you don't know what happens with Brook
26:09Lopez you don't know what happens with Middleton but it wasn't that long ago that Middleton
26:13was like a bonafide all-star and that Lopez was one of the best three-point shooters in
26:17the league.
26:18So it feels a little galaxy brain to pick the Bucs as the second best team in the East
26:25but and there's like almost no depth to speak of on that team at least not right now.
26:31But I don't know I think so highly of Giannis that I am starting to do a 180 and wonder
26:38if they're going to be quite good and I want to hear obviously what you have to say I will
26:44say next season a ton of teams are going to win 50-something games because there are going
26:48to be some teams that are tanking so hard so even if the standings are a little out
26:53of whack at the end of the season I don't think I don't think that's going to be where
26:57we solve this problem is in the standings because teams are going to rack up wins like
27:01crazy.
27:02Yeah I know there's more than Cooper Flagg in this upcoming draft class but with him
27:06in mind there are going to be some front offices that aren't thrilled about wins on
27:10certain nights during the regular season.
27:12So there's definitely going to be a chance to rack up victories against that portion
27:17of the league and when it comes to the Bucs I mean you hit the nail on the head there
27:23that there's a respect factor that they deserve especially Giannis and so it's hey this team
27:30is good enough with their core four that their ceiling is a championship that they could
27:35get there again and win it but at the same time they're older they don't have much roster
27:42flexibility I mean Chris Middleton did have a very good series against Indiana especially
27:48to extend it you know without Giannis there was really impressive and Damian Lillard gets
27:53hurt Middleton picks up his play so he's still a really good three and D wing who brings
27:59more to the table than that label but you're right that Damian Lillard is lunch meat on
28:05defense and him and Giannis it probably gets better but he's an undersized guard who's
28:10going to be a year older now and Brooke Lopez a year older now and Chris Middleton is getting
28:16around 33 so just massive concerns not much of a supporting cast I think they have no
28:23centers on them yeah Lopez and Fortis and so I think what they're going to do is really
28:32lean into hey the regular season matters but this is an experienced group with you
28:39know most of the core has won championships and Dame is not someone we worry about being
28:44afraid of the moment or not showing up so let's really make sure that regardless of
28:50seating that we are healthy and we feel as ready as possible for the workload the playoffs
28:58entail now that doesn't mean rest you have to be properly geared up to play heavy minutes
29:03and handle that workload and intensity but it does mean that they might treat the regular
29:08season different than a team like the magic for example right so with Milwaukee not much
29:15room to pivot I don't love the roster as a whole I don't love them on defense because
29:23there's some clear targets there but you do have to respect how much talent they have
29:30at the top of that roster so to me you know I kind of I still think that they're better
29:37than the Knicks but I I see the case for number two and maybe it's just the the reconfiguration
29:47of the Sixers being more closer to the new shiny toy but I like that construction and
29:54I think there's something to both the I think there's a little bit of a reinvigoration going
30:00on in Philadelphia with that team plus Tyrese Maxey's ascent that I like their roster composition
30:10more than I like what Milwaukee has all right so um let me close the books on the books
30:16and then we'll come back to it it sounds like I'll be the bad cop or the good cop on the Knicks
30:21and then I can be bad cop for the Sixers yeah just looking at the box depth chart just like
30:28reacting to it real time Torian Prince's they're starting small forward is a tough look maybe they
30:37start Giannis at center I don't know like they had such a weird coaching situation last year
30:42and basically like an internal mutiny that last season I don't know we know anything about like
30:48it doesn't seem like Lillard was very happy if you believe reporting I mean Giannis was like
30:52starting fights to get basketballs like it just like the funk every season there's just like a
30:57team where there's a funk and it seems like it lingers and when it lingers it seems like it's
31:03real so I mean who are they built to run up and down the floor with like Indiana was a terrible
31:09matchup for them even with a healthy Giannis and that doesn't mean the Pacers would have won the
31:13series but you get the point and the Celtics have two athletic wings and love to push the tempo and
31:19you can look at the Knicks and make that case and you know it's probably as good of a top team in
31:26the east that Milwaukee matches up with yeah that's true I mean I will so the whole exercises
31:35we're not being homers here like are definitely the best team in the east like don't get it
31:40twisted yeah Giannis I don't really know who guards the honest on the Knicks or the Sixers
31:49so that's I don't know yeah the Chris Middleton double ankle injuries also feels noteworthy all
31:57right um we'll go back to the Bucs it seems like we both wish we could pick the Bucs but it would
32:04be intellectually dishonest so sound like a good summary yeah I can get down with that so I think
32:11you're down on the Knicks and I'm a little up on the Knicks so tell us why the Knicks are not the
32:15number two seats another number two team and the east so this is less about the Knicks and more
32:22about the Sixers and we'll just keep it to New York right now and then we'll get to Philly next
32:27I really like this Knicks team I love Knicks fans and you know they can win a game to be fourth
32:35in the east in the regular season and out there outside the building they're going crazy so shout
32:40to side talk and all of that but when it comes to this team chemistry and camaraderie matter
32:49especially on the court and that can definitely benefit from relationships off it so it's fun
32:54that they have this Villanova squad together there's also the reality that they paid a superstar
33:00price for a zero-time all-star who's 28 years old in McHale bridges and so to me I look at the team
33:07and I say really good and to deal with OG and bridges defensively especially if you're the
33:15Celtics like that was very much a move made with the top dog in mind it's a smart trade from the
33:21matchup standpoint for getting price for just a second so I like the construction the vibes are
33:28off the charts there and they're gonna be a good team which just makes it more fun and that helps
33:33and I think you can kind of feed off that momentum and ride it if you're the Knicks at the same time
33:38they've got multiple targets defensively they've got to figure out the center position which is a
33:44bit of a mess and it sounded like if you believe Isaiah Harden Stein and I do that he was prepared
33:50to come back and then the Thunder made kind of a godfather offer to him and he had to take it and
33:55so they've got to figure out what to do with the five they're presumably I would think going to
34:01trade Julius Randle and that'll allow them to depending on retired be more athletic and run
34:08and gun a little bit more but the depth is suspect and I don't know I like this team I don't love
34:17them bridges should take a leap because of the role he was in in Brooklyn compared to now getting
34:22to play off Jalen Brunson but I still look at this team and I say not enough firepower offensively
34:30they could use you know the six or eight spots some upgrades I mentioned Center and defensively
34:38multiple targets so I really like the Knicks I think they're gonna be a lot of fun to watch but
34:44I have them in third and if the Bucks are better it wouldn't surprise me at all yeah I mean I'm not
34:52just putting on so that we have a premise for a podcast like I sincerely like I've talked myself
34:56in circles all summer long but like I'm inclined to say Jalen Brunson is first of all taking a pay
35:02cut that is preposterous I do not condone that don't leave hundreds of millions of dollars they
35:08will he if Damon Lillard is a defensive liability so is Brunson maybe Brunson's a little stronger but
35:15he's he's a little guy that's I mean we're something we cover the Celtics we know what
35:20it's like to have an undersized point guard it's a disaster in the playoffs I think I guess I
35:26thought I disagreed with you on the depth miles McBride even Chenzo Jericho Sims like they have
35:33guys with panache coming off the bench but I guess not necessarily proven it occurs to me though that
35:40if you put bridges heart and an OB in like the center of a 1 3 1 zone or something like a 1 3 1
35:48zone that's really good against a team like the Celtics I mean that is that's those are strong
35:53switchy guys who are really smart who have a lot of length like bridges only accolade is making
36:00all defensive team that's a good accolade right part is a utility guy of great consequence and
36:07an OB is criminally underrated and he's like a pretty established forcibly the Randall piece
36:14is so fascinating they got a trade him and trade him yesterday that he doesn't fit in at all unless
36:21he is gonna play like Boris D out six man there's just no way and he's he's not Boris D out doors
36:29better player so I that gives me reason to think they have a chip that even if they get a one for
36:37one like they just get a good player back that's gonna help them massively they could get another
36:42big they could get a power forward something like that I don't have any names on the top of my head
36:47they're definitely one or two entries away from their goose being cooked but that was the case
36:53that we saw that in the playoffs and I don't think it's wrong to say Tibbs went down swinging
37:00and didn't make adjustments the way he needed to certainly you know when it comes to like player
37:04arrest so I'm in 100% agreement it's great when the Knicks are good it's me so fun I really like
37:13the Nova Knicks and you you know I both lead Big East and I think we're still rooting for the Nova
37:18Knicks love Mitchell Robinson seems like a high character person even before I learned about his
37:25relationship with his old coach such a good player to root for so the reason I would put them second
37:33is they have chemistry that no team can touch maybe the Celtics they have that trio of heart
37:41bridges and in Anobi that should be like prime to stop a team like the Celtics specifically Jalen
37:48Jason and they've continuity more or less they know each other they can ride off the momentum
37:54of last season but I suspect I was I still like want to make the case for the Sixers and again
38:07not for the premise of the podcast but like I don't know so let's put a pin in that I think
38:13so let me summarize again I think we're putting the Knicks we're both putting the Knicks past the
38:17Bucks the Bucks are out of contention here okay all right so let's do the Sixers you're high on
38:22the Sixers I'm I think intellectually less high on the Sixers but you're the guest you go first
38:27well I'm prepared to be Charlie Brown who thinks he's about to kick the football through the
38:33uprights only I have it pulled out and I'm on my back looking up at the clouds but I understand
38:38the history individually of Joel Embiid and Paul George and the stink on the Sixers franchise but
38:46it's a really clean fit to have point guard wing center and two of those three are running out of
38:54time and chances and another one is on the rise and so what that looks like combined with keeping
39:03players like Kelly Oubre Kyle Lowry you know you could snivel at it he probably fits into your Bush
39:09administration joke but nonetheless is the Bush administration joke he's playing for his hometown
39:16team with a chance to win a championship and vying for another contract you can't ask for any more
39:21motivation than that so I think he is going to contribute off the bench and probably be better
39:28than he was for them upon signing during the season and I look at that team and for so many
39:35years Tobias Harris held them back to a dramatic extent and if you're a Celtics fan you can sit
39:42here and say we own them we always beat them and the scoreboard doesn't lie on that front but at
39:48the same time even game seven against them a couple years ago was a competitive first half
39:54and then Tatum erupted for a record-setting 51 points it might look different if Paul George is
40:03in that game at least from a you know first half maybe it goes Philly's way maybe it's a little
40:08harder I'm not even saying the Sixers win that game or totally slow down Tatum you know at that
40:13point it doesn't matter who's defending him I'm just saying you'd rather have Paul George out
40:18there instead of Tobias Harris and now they do so this guy who they needed meaningful production
40:24from and was a bagel becomes a much better player someone who maybe it changes this season but has
40:33even last year been better than McHale bridges and so to me I wouldn't underestimate how
40:40competitive a lot of these games and series have been with Philadelphia in the past and the impact
40:46of swapping Tobias Harris for Paul George while again keeping the likes of Kelly Oubre and they've
40:53got some pretty good players there I love the pick of Jared McCain and he's gonna be a fun player to
40:59watch who makes a difference at both ends of the floor so to me I really like the construct of this
41:06Sixers team while understanding the health and playoff reputation concerns and questions
41:13surrounding two of their three best players with Embiid and Paul George all right let me try the
41:21opposite tack for the sake of argument but also to round things out I you're not wrong it's me
41:28really fun team I think McCain is cute kid he and Maxie both seem like they're just a joy and
41:34beats fun I mean like I know he foul baits and whatnot but like he's a fun guy and people love
41:42Paul George's podcast like like there's just gonna be a lot of content like it's gonna be a fun
41:45Nick Nurse's a walking meme he's a weirdo so that'll be good I guess let me start at the bottom
41:53of the five spot it all hinges on Embiid being healthy right and often we're told you know what
42:03such-and-such a player ran out of gas they had a big summer they played in the Olympics they you
42:08know they played the international games like whatever it is they just they couldn't go 12
42:12months of competitive basketball so if I'm the Sixers I'm furious that Embiid is playing in the
42:18Olympics right now because his professional reputation as an NBA player hinges on being
42:23healthy and in shape one time in the postseason and it hasn't yet happened through bad luck or
42:29bad planning so that feels like a huge gamble for a man who's about to be 30 who is that multiple
42:38leg injuries and even when healthy the Celtics seem to get the better of them so he was a deserving
42:45MVP he could be in the MVP conversation again he's one of the best basketball players in the
42:49world like no doubt but I don't know that he can be the focal point of a team that is better than
42:56the Celtics or really even challenges the Celtics we didn't talk about Caleb Martin but after
43:03watching Jason Tatum just like dismantle Caleb Martin in the first round of the playoffs this
43:10past year the magic wear off especially leaving Miami yeah and so you're replacing Paul George I
43:19mean Tobias Harris Paul George but like you you also have Caleb Martin and Kelly Oubre out there
43:26supposed to be like defensive stopgaps and no one like tsunami poppy I mean he's first team all
43:32handsome in my book you literally know that they just feel like offensive live liabilities of a
43:39sort but like certainly defensive liabilities I Caleb Martin maybe can you know get some hustle
43:45plays on defense but we saw he can't guard the Celtics best players and then I don't know Paul
43:53George hasn't won anything interesting in the past 10 years he's been you know skating on his
44:02reputation from like a magical season in Oklahoma like he's been good but he's not been great if he
44:08didn't play for a glamour market I don't know that we would still consider him a bonafide star
44:12I think he had an all-star worthy season last year yeah but so did like Paolo Bancaro I don't know
44:19like I don't think he is a difference maker of the highest order anymore 34 he's got a metal
44:26rod on his leg he's increasingly playing fewer and fewer games so I don't know it feels like
44:33the Damon Lillard thing like maybe they get a season or two out of it but quickly what happens
44:37out of after that and I think that that impending pressure is there like they all know it like the
44:43Celtics everyone knows that the Celtics are rocking a two-year timeline and maybe they'll continue to
44:48pay for it but if after two years they blow it up it's not because guys are too old it's because
44:55they can't afford it anymore and everyone goes their separate ways but the Sixers can't get it
44:59done and in two years they blow it up what happens to a bead what happens to George I mean like their
45:04careers fundamentally look different so I think that there's looming pressure there and then that
45:08the linchpin for me is Max it's the fastest dude in the league I wouldn't be surprised to learn he's
45:14like literally top five fastest dude in the league and so many times he's like up the court and then
45:21turns around and all the Sixers are still behind him and they're not getting the best out of Maxi
45:26that they could and Paul George is not a particularly quick guy and beat is not a quick
45:31guy so I agree the 2008 Celtics burned into my brain like positional purity that like a pure
45:40point guard a pure wing a pure center is what you want and so I really like the fit the Sixers team
45:45but I just think in the playoffs it feels more like a team you've made on 2k and less a team
45:54built around like true fit if that makes sense so I don't see them being like a juggernaut on
46:02offense and I also don't see them being without serious flaws on defense does that make sense
46:08yeah I don't know if I agree with the defensive part of that assessment and offensively I think
46:17a pick and roll for example to keep it elementary with Maxi and Paul George is cleaner than Kawhi
46:25and Paul George running that regardless of whether you invert it or not and so to me I like what the
46:31Sixers can do offensively and I think there is a natural cohesion that helps especially as they
46:39feel each other out and how they want to play you have a defensive mastermind as a coach in Nick
46:44nurse and so I like this group and being number two in aggregate is different than are even saying
46:55are they the best equipped to beat the Celtics right those are different conversations for example
46:59the Pacers got all the way to Eastern Conference finals I didn't look at them as the second best
47:04team in the East last year I looked at a whole host of factors including injuries and with Philadelphia
47:11they're certainly they run the risk and you know next year is as good as it gets for them even if
47:16everyone stays healthy then two years from now you got Joel Embiid in his 30s with a host of injuries
47:24and Paul George same deal applies but he's even older so to me what the pivot is right where they
47:34go from here but as far as the here and now it's a clean fit with a coach who can prop them up on
47:42their weaker side of the floor and whereas the Knicks it's more can we bring you into the mud
47:47and then do we now have enough offensive firepower thanks to the addition of bridges in particular and
47:55the Sixers I think that it's a little more balanced overall and I think that that trio
48:02if that can work as well as its potential which is the huge question here then I think if they
48:11can maximize those three on the floor together then they can create problems at both ends of
48:17the floor and I think that maxi could be come a better defender than he has been in the past and
48:23that doesn't mean great or Derek White level or anything of the sort but at times he has been a
48:29liability on that end of the floor and if he can at least hold his own you'd be a Steph Curry caliber
48:36defender or something along those lines that goes a long way especially if those three are clicking
48:42offensively I mean even the idea of Joel Embiid having Paul George on a slot cut right that 45
48:49degree angle to the basket you trust him to finish a lot more than I'll say his name again Tobias
48:54Harris and so to me I like the potential there of that big three while understanding the concerns
49:03and I'm looking at it less from who matches up with the Celtics the best and more stacking the
49:11teams up from a standings perspective yeah no I mean the frame is which is the biggest competitor
49:19for the Celtics or the biggest foe for the Celtics yeah we at in Team USA we haven't seen Embiid hit
49:27the cutter particularly well we haven't seen him look to pass to an equivalent level star so they'll
49:35have to use the regular season to figure that one out I guess the last of we can close with this I
49:40it occurs to me that Joe Missoula will target the hell out of Embiid or target the hell out of
49:45Brunson and I guess I think Embiid is more likely to succumb to seven games of that whereas even if
49:55Brunson takes a knee the supporting cast behind him defensively is there but yeah I don't know
50:01if the Knicks have the offensive firepower so I mean to your point even Paul George if the Celtics
50:06end up in a series with them that's a guy that you can go at you know for one you try to wear
50:11him down and secondly I don't think that they're gonna look at Paul George and say that's a
50:17lockdown guy so he might not be target number one but I also don't think that they're gonna treat
50:22him with the same respect defensively as bridges for example yeah all right so this sincerely was
50:32I write for USA Today's Celtics Wire on top of doing this podcast I wonder how many people like
50:38are you still doing talking Celtics with how about them Celtics we took a little offseason break and
50:44Sam is also in Greece but we will probably be firing it back up next week okay yeah I wonder
50:52how many people listen to this and then or listen to that and then read like what the overlap is
50:56between reading and writing so anyways I'm gonna write the last three pieces on my power rankings
51:04the series that I'm doing for Celtics Wire so I actually won't reveal what I think I think right
51:09now um Bobby's frozen oh you're frozen and you just look to sleep um I don't know look I was
51:16moving on my screen so waiting on me I'll make one more point so while I'm still frozen on your side
51:25so this is tough because I'm not frozen on my end you're moving you're neither one of us are frozen
51:31oh you just froze on my screen it's a little delay but this stuff has kicked in you're back
51:35now by the way the the last point that I'll make is that just so like
51:45I don't know if I'm frozen or not right now
51:50I'll take it that way wait wait wait wait wait I'm doing yeah assume you are
51:55uh what the hell is going on here this is insane if you can hear me I'll wait for you to cue me I
52:03don't know if Bobby's still I can't tell if you're live and you're back or
52:18are you back if you can't see my head moving I'm not back
52:22I see your head moving yeah you're moving your arms I'm on
52:32correct okay I'm gonna I can't tell
52:38this episode of the Celtics Lab podcast was brought to you by Price Picks the exclusive
52:41fantasy basketball partner of the CLNS Media Network Celtics Lab was also brought to you by
52:45game time tickets last minute tickets lowest price guaranteed we've been listening to Bobby
52:50Kravitzky from Sports Illustrated uh struggle through the wi-fi challenges that my house
52:56brings but I'm moving in two weeks so hopefully they have better wi-fi down the street where I'm
53:01moving um Bobby you back I don't know you tell I've never been frozen on my end you've been frozen
53:07for like half a second a couple times this is so funny okay tell us tell us the rank the teams in
53:15order and then we'll end the episode okay I think for a top five that I would go Celtics
53:27from a threats to the Celtics standpoint yeah then I think I'd go Knicks two and then Sixers
53:37no I think I'd go Knicks two Bucks three Sixers four but as far as the regular season goes it
53:44wouldn't surprise me if Philly's all the way up there at number two and then Orlando five
53:49Pacers six and I but again I know I'm kind of all over the road right now but
53:56the Sixers and the Knicks played last year in the playoffs and with a compromised Embiid and
54:05Tobias Harris in the role that Paul George will now fill and I think Max will be even better it
54:11came down to a game seven so to me I don't know is the difference between adding Mikhail Bridges
54:20to that Knicks team outweigh having Paul George and if both teams are at good health then I'm not
54:29sold on that right and so the Knicks I think when they match up with the Celtics you can outline it
54:36easier because they have such talented defensive wings but the Sixers to me though you go from last
54:46year's best of seven against New York into the changes in their roster and I can certainly
54:53outline for you why Philly would beat the Knicks this go-around if they match up in the playoffs
54:59again so you're taking the Knicks but you're not sure if they could beat the Sixers you'd say the
55:05Knicks are the biggest threat to the Celtics but counterintuitively they're a bad matchup with the
55:10Sixers yeah it's all about matchups and so to me I think if the Knicks and the Sixers play at full
55:17health next season in the playoffs that depending on what it looks like especially with Bridges
55:24then I you know and Maxi what kind of a leap is there I think that I would pick the Sixers but if
55:30either one of them played the Celtics I would pick the Knicks based on construct to give Boston
55:36a more difficult time all right well I guess what we've learned is that Bobby really does not like
55:42Tobias Harris and that the Bucs are the odd man out yeah all righty um also shout out to Tobias
55:49Harris first team all finesse for once again getting a massive head scratching con check
55:55yeah uh there are some dumb teams tanking really really hard and nakedly but Cooper Flagg seems
56:03like he's that guy so anyways uh Bobby thank you people who are listening thanks for fighting
56:09through the uh that little internet hiccup that maybe was just in my head I guess I don't know
56:14um all I know is it never froze on my end except for maybe half a second a couple times where you
56:22glitched out oh you were freezing left and right on my end uh all righty anyways um I think I'm not
56:30gonna be here next week but Alex and Justin will be but maybe I will be if I dial in from Paris but
56:36if not I'll be in Paris uh until then adios and we'll catch you soon