Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Oliver Leader de Saxe, joined by Victoria Akintomide-Akinwamide, the Labour ward councillor for Ebbsfleet at Dartford Borough Council and Andy Richards channel director of KMTV.
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00:00Welcome to the Kent Politics Show live here on KMTV, the show that gets Kent
00:29politicians talking. I'm Oliver, Leader of the Saks, and while the county is being battered
00:35by wind and rain of late, the weather won't stop us from discussing the big issues of
00:39the week. From new housing developments threatening the price out local, to the inauguration of
00:45an increasingly radical 47th President, we have a lot to talk about. And to make sense
00:51of it all, I'm joined by Tony Hall, the Conservative Deputy Cabinet Member for Environment at Kent
00:56County Council, and Victoria Akinwemedi, the Labour War Councillor for Ebbsfleet at
01:03Dartford Borough Council. But first, tonight. Sorry, the ultra-scroller getting a bit lost
01:12there. As Storm Eowyn hit the UK with yellow and red weather warnings up and down the coast,
01:17MPs from across the county and political spectrum were in Westminster debating a landmark climate
01:23bill. The bill, brought forward by a Liberal Democrat, will set the UK new legally binding
01:28targets on environmental issues, and there were many similar private members' bills presented
01:34over the years. But negotiations with the government may mean the bill won't go ahead
01:38as planned, as Tunbridge Wells MP Mike Martin told me earlier today.
01:43What's happened over the last few weeks is that the government and Ros have been negotiating
01:48and it was agreed, in return for a number of concessions from the government, that the
01:55bill would be adjourned to a later date. And so that's what happened today. We had the
02:01debate last night. Ros secured these concessions from the government and the bill was adjourned
02:08rather than talked out. And I think it's great. It represents grown-up politics. And what
02:15you do in Parliament is you cut deals and you achieve concessions and that's how you
02:21move things forward.
02:24Obviously lots of detail there that might be slightly confusing for viewers at home.
02:30So just in simple terms, what does the next steps actually look like? Now the bill has
02:34been adjourned, now the government's made several concessions, what does this mean going
02:39forward for climate and nature, which is such a big issue for us here in the county?
02:45Well, going forward it means looking at those concessions. So the government is going to
02:50accelerate a number of its manifesto commitments around achieving particular targets and it's
02:57going to publish a letter later today setting those out. It's also going to establish a
03:02joint forum between the Department for Environment, the Department for Energy and Security and
03:09Net Zero and climate campaigners and NGOs to assess how well the government is doing in
03:14meeting those climate targets. And the government is also annually going to publish a
03:18statement about how well it is doing against those targets that have been set out in all
03:24the international agreements and that will be debated in Parliament.
03:28And so those in summary were the three concessions and that's what it looks like going
03:32forward. The climate and nature bill as was is now, that will not go any further and it is
03:39those concessions that Ros won today from the government that will stand the test of
03:45time.
03:46So a political success for the Liberal Democrats and obviously you're in quite a rural
03:51constituency on the forefront of the climate crisis. What's at stake for your constituents
03:58and for Thornbridge Wells in the middle of the climate crisis? Obviously, we've seen Kent
04:02battered by gale winds today with a yellow weather warning. Are you worried that these sorts of
04:07weather events can be more common if we don't address the climate crisis that's
04:10threatening our country?
04:14I mean, Oliver, I think demonstrably, the weather is becoming more unpredictable and
04:21extreme as a result of the climate crisis. I mean, you speak to the storm today. I've been
04:27an ocean sailor for 20 or so years. And over that time, the weather storms and the oceans
04:34and the patterns of weather have become much more unpredictable. Of particular note in
04:39Thornbridge Wells is that some of the villages and towns have problems with flooding. And
04:46those problems are coming more often and at greater height, the floodwaters reach greater
04:53height. And that is not unconnected with climate change. And when I when I go and speak to the
04:57Environment Agency, they now have to adjust all of their modelling to take account of the
05:03fact that flood risk has grown massively because of the climate crisis.
05:08And obviously, it is an interesting time for the UK government with discussions of airport
05:14expansion at Gatwick at Heathrow, the use of energy intensive AI. Obviously, they've made
05:20these concessions today. But are you confident in the way the government are currently
05:25tackling the climate crisis from your perspective as a Liberal Democrat MP here in Kent?
05:33Look, I think it's always a balance, of course, but I think there is one thing that perhaps I
05:39would change and that's around the framing. Also often with climate, it is, you know, measures
05:46to tackle the climate crisis are often put up as the opposite of economic growth. So you can have
05:51economic growth or you can have, you know, protection from the climate crisis. And what I would
05:57like to see in rhetoric and approach from the government is a recognition that actually these two
06:02things are synergistic. And it's about where you put your investments. So if you invest in the energy
06:07transition and try and grow some industries that we are, we are or could be world leaders in like
06:12wind power or hydrogen power, sorry, hydropower, then that, that not only helps us with the climate
06:19crisis, but also offers us opportunities for economic growth. I think that you can, you know, in the same
06:26way that the transition to oil 100 years ago or more was a chance for economic growth, the energy
06:33transition to renewables, which is as big as something like the Industrial Revolution, or the change from
06:38coal to oil offers us opportunities, new opportunities for economic growth. So for me, it's
06:44about the framing of the problem. And that should inform the way that the government approaches it.
06:53Well, thank you for joining me in the studio, Victoria. I think Tony's having a few connection
06:57issues. Hopefully he'll join us a bit later in the programme. But obviously, it is a big issue for the
07:04county climate change. And obviously, Labour, your government, chose to negotiate with the Liberal
07:08Democrats and has made concessions to the party on this bill. Where do you kind of stand on that? Do you
07:15think your government made the right choice to not let this bill go ahead as intended? It was going to
07:19create those legal requirements to meet those targets they've been making promises about at these
07:25global conferences?
07:26Oliver, what is clear is that the government has a very ambitious environmental and climate plans. We want to
07:34make Britain one of the fastest growing green economy by 2030. And we have stretching zero plans as well to
07:41ensure that we achieve that. This bill could have been a step towards that. But what we need to realise
07:46that, as per any bill, it needs to go through the proper process in Parliament. And that this, the end
07:54of this bill specifically, is not an end of the government's green ambition and green plans for the
08:03country and importantly, for our economy.
08:05I was speaking to Roger Gale earlier today, Sir Roger Gale, the Herne Bay and Sandwich MP. He says it's
08:10all about the next generation thinking about what they may not have. But he is concerned, perhaps, about
08:15planning in particular, and how that's going to impact rural communities, of which there are numerous
08:21around Kent, obviously, housing a big issue here. We'll talk about that more after the break. But the
08:26disruption to rural habitats, and this kind of approach by the Labour government to kind of change
08:32planning processes, are you worried it kind of indicates a government that doesn't really necessarily care
08:37about rural communities in the way that Kent...
08:38Not at all. Not at all. Not at all. We are very, very, we care a lot about Kent, like, especially Labour
08:44politicians in Kent. We know that, we know, we love the fact that we're often referred to as England's
08:51garden. That is a positive thing. But at the same time, we need to balance that with the need for more
08:56housing and the need to ensure that we house new people moving to Kent and ensure that people lived
09:02already.
09:06There's not, we don't, we care about this area. And we want to ensure that the green belt in Kent is
09:14protected as it should be.
09:17But is that going to be possible under the government's new plans? Because like the new plans around housing
09:22and zoning in the green belt, that's an unavoidable truth of their new housing policies. How can you argue
09:29they can protect the green belt when the government's own policies will likely mean houses being built on
09:35parts of Kent's green belt?
09:36We need to reform the planning rules in Kent. That's fundamental. A lot of the planning rules are okay, and
09:44it doesn't work for 2025 and doesn't work for the demands that housing needs require right now. The
09:52government's move towards zoning does make sense. It means that some parts of the greenery in Kent that
10:01aren't actually needed or might need some reform, some rectification would might need to go. And that
10:08would need to happen. But fundamentally, what we do also need to do is make sure that there's a balance
10:12between the requirements for housing. So we have an ambition to build 13,000 new homes in Kent every year so
10:19that everyone can have a place to call their home and so that young people can get on the property ladder. We
10:24need to balance that out with, you know, protecting our natural habitat as well, which is a balance that I think
10:30we can struck.
10:31I want to ask, we're in the midst of major local government reorganisation and devolution. But one of the
10:38issues that isn't being devolved necessarily is planning around the climate crisis. And obviously, communities
10:44understand best how to deal with these issues themselves. Sometimes the issues of flooding in somewhere like
10:51Tunbridge and Moorling, the issues of coastal surges in places like Margate and Thanet. I was wondering, would
10:57you see perhaps climate policy come to a more devolved level in the coming years? Would you see communities have
11:05more control over this as part of the government's plans?
11:07I think that's the way that it's moving forward, isn't it? Because, I mean, at the end of the day, in Kent, let's say
11:13that we have a major mayor of Kent in the future, the mayor would have jurisdiction regarding housing, regarding
11:22planning, depending on what the white paper, what the planning structure looks like. And I feel like people living
11:28locally have a better idea of what the local needs are, which is the plan for devolution. So I think there's a scope
11:36for that. But the extent of what that would look like, we don't have any idea what that looks like at the moment. But
11:41it's a conversation that we should be having.
11:42Well, we'll be playing more conversations after the break, Victoria. But coming up, housing prices, our new
11:48developments, pricing out locals, and of course, Trump. What do you mean for Kent?
15:06Welcome back to the Kent Politics Show live here on KMTV, the show that gets Kent's politicians talking. It's a bit of a
15:16chaotic one tonight. Tony Hill, unfortunately, doesn't seem to be able to connect to us. We'll hopefully have him in the
15:22coming months. We are joined still by Victoria Akatemidi, the Labour Ward Councillor for Ebbsfleet at Dartford Borough
15:30Council. Hopefully joining us during this chat will be the Channel Director for KMTV as well, giving a bit of insight into the
15:37issues of housing in the county, which are massive. And I'm sure you know, Dartford is prime commuter belt, and it has lots of
15:46housing developments. Are you worried that in your ward and your area, that locals are going to be priced out by the influx of
15:52people moving out from London to Kent and other parts of North Kent?
15:57I think it's ensuring that we tackle the problem before people move in, by giving approval to the right housing plans. So
16:05ensuring that the houses that are being built in Kent are affordable housing, are social housing, and they have the right
16:11infrastructure around them. So we have enough schools, we have enough hospitals, we have enough GP services, enough daycare.
16:19So things like that would need to be in place to ensure that before people move into North West Kent, we're ready to accommodate
16:27them.
16:29Brilliant. Well, hi, Andy. Shuffling a little bit closer towards us.
16:35Live telly.
16:37You didn't see on screen there because you lay over the screen. Our Channel Director has joined us on the sofa to fill in for
16:44Tony. And actually, I think what's quite interesting was that those pictures were about Folkestone, which recently had a
16:50planning decision to scrap around 410 homes that will be built on the seafront. They were going to be huge homes, but only
16:57about 8% of them were going to be affordable. And I'm wondering, Andy, is this a trend that you've seen? Being a journalist in
17:03Kent for many years now, kind of like seeing like how our towns have developed, particularly after Covid, we have a flooding
17:09out from the cities. Is this something that you've kind of seen these housing prices on the coast rising?
17:14Yeah, it's always been a huge issue over the last 10 years since I've been here in Kent. Housing in general has always been an
17:23issue. The targets that the various councils have got, well, it depends which government's in power, have always been
17:32something that's controversial. What's also very interesting around housing and how we keep people in Kent, one of the big
17:42issues that we've covered over the years with housing developments is people from Visit Kent and councils wanting to keep
17:50people spending money within Kent rather than what's called this horrible term, dormitory residents, where they come and buy
17:59homes and they sleep there, but then they commute back to London and don't stay and spend money within the community. That's
18:08been a big issue. But in terms of, it's quite interesting with the seaside towns is that, you know, there's a lot of
18:14deprivation in these various different places. So yes, house prices might be rising in some of these areas, but in other
18:21areas, it's pretty challenging still in these areas. But why the house prices keep going up? I'm not sure really. It's a huge
18:29issue. Housing has always been massive in Kent.
18:32Well, in some places, obviously, we have seen a few declines on the coast, places like Broadstairs recently, though we don't
18:37necessarily know the reasons, probably because buying power isn't as high as it was in the past. But there is one
18:43interesting statistic that's come out from KCC recently, that 25% of homes in Kent account for the dwellings being
18:49completed that are affordable. That's below the average for the entire country of 28%. And I'm wondering, why do you think
18:57Kent is below the average Victoria?
18:59Well, we should ask the councils, why are you giving approval to planning permissions that don't meet the social
19:06affordable housing mark? That has to be the standard, because then we need to ensure that that stays the standard
19:12throughout Kent, not just in some, but in some councils in Kent, and so that young people especially are able to get on the
19:20property ladder and are not priced out of Kent. And in addition to that, once the houses are finally built, we need to ensure
19:27that we have robust plans in place that management companies are not increasing their prices incredibly year on year, which
19:35then means that people have to sell their house and move further afield. So there's so many factors that we need to ensure are
19:41in place and are working well for the people in Kent.
19:45And Ollie, there are schemes, there are schemes that have been in place, like Help to Buy and things like that. But what
19:51everyone's missing is now with the issues with mortgages, these schemes are still in place, management fees are still in place,
19:59people can't afford the Help to Buy scheme anymore, all of those loans are coming into force as well. I know people who have that
20:06problem. And also the disparity between how much money is being spent in different places with management charges and things
20:14like that. It's a lot.
20:16It's disgusting.
20:17It's a lot.
20:19But I'm kind of curious, because is it to do with affordability of housing? Or is it to do with infrastructure? Because
20:25obviously, you can build all the affordable housing in Kent in the world, you're building 50% affordable housing, would it
20:30really matter if there was the infrastructure to go with it? Do you think there needs to be kind of more incentives to be
20:34going around the affordable houses being built? Is it about making them accessible, making them well connected, providing
20:43essential services?
20:44It's ensuring that we do both at the same time. For example, in my ward, Eppsfleet, we are one of the fastest growing
20:51communities in North West Kent. But one thing that we lack, so evidently, is that infrastructure aspect, Ollie. A solution to
21:01that going forward is ensuring that once houses are being built, developers also have to ensure that infrastructure is also
21:08built at the same time, that the schools are built at the same time, not that we're having schools being built two years
21:14afterwards, after the residents move in. We need to ensure councils need to ensure that old developers are accountable to
21:22building the infrastructure. So that's what I've experienced, my residents have experienced in Eppsfleet, where the schools
21:28that were promised years ago, they were just about to start in 2025. Those two things don't match up, and they need to be
21:37matching up a lot quicker.
21:38And we've done stories before, there was one in West Morling, actually, where a housing developer needed to build a doctor's
21:48surgery as part of its requirements, but it set the rent higher than the NHS surgeries are allowed to pay for the for the
21:56rental. So what happened? It stayed empty. So the planning permission was changed, and it was turned into more flats. And of
22:03course, they were sold. So I think it's not just about, you know, it's business. If there are loopholes, you will use the
22:11loopholes. It's also about making sure that the developers are held to account for what they're supposed to do as well. And
22:18certainly when it comes to infrastructure, we've heard stories about selling off land to make different sizes of
22:26development. So then infrastructure doesn't need to be built. So it doesn't meet thresholds and things like that. So it's not just
22:32about, though, it's not just about the developers, because, you know, if they're allowed to do it, that's fair game. It's about
22:38making sure the legislation and the laws are the correct ones.
22:42Absolutely. And I'm sure we'll be keeping an eye on that. But we have to move on to one story that's always common here in Kent. So
22:48perhaps the biggest story of the week, Trump's inauguration. It's been the talk of the town. Everyone knows that he's been
22:56moving fast on things like executive orders, more than 60 within his first 24 hours, including tariffs of 25% on close
23:04allies like Canada. And I'm wondering, are you worried what this could mean for Kent? Because obviously, we have factory here,
23:11we have industry here, we export goods and services, as is the rest of the rest of the UK. Are you worried what Trump could
23:17potentially do to the UK economy, given these quite sweeping executive changes?
23:24I think as an economy, we need to ensure that we just don't rely on trade from the, rely on trading with just America, that we
23:32need to expand our European relationships a lot more, our African relationship, a lot more, our Asian relationships a lot
23:39more. Because America, although a fantastic, a great state, does not, is not the be-all and end-all of the global economy.
23:46There are emerging markets which have now emerged, like your India, South Africa, a lot of the countries, a lot of the
23:52countries on the North African continent, that we need to increase our ties to so that we don't suffer in Kent, so that we
24:00continue to grow year on year.
24:03I'll talk about the politics a bit. It was great telly. It was great telly. The inauguration was fantastic telly.
24:09I think we were sat there and usually watching it together, Andy.
24:11One of the best moments was when Hillary Clinton burst out laughing when he said about changing the Gulf of Mexico to Gulf of
24:18America. It was bizarre. It was like reality TV playing out.
24:23But dangerous.
24:25Dangerous.
24:25Very dangerous.
24:26But what's, I think, really interesting with the UK, and he hasn't said too much, Keir Starmer is in an interesting position on how to
24:35approach relations with America and Trump. But Donald Trump has an awful lot of money tied up in the UK, awful lot of money in
24:43Scotland. He's got his golf courses. He's got a close affection with the UK. Let's not hope that he considers the UK the 52nd state
24:53after saying that Canada was going to be the 51st. But he's got, I don't think he wants to upset too many people in the UK. And I think
25:00because he spends so much time here, and there's a lot of money tied up here. So I think he needs the UK just as much as the UK needs
25:07him. So I think relations could be interesting with Trump over the next four years.
25:11But it's not just about Trump. It's also about his new right-hand man, Elon Musk, the billionaire owner of X, Tesla and SpaceX. And
25:20what's quite interesting is that he's obviously found quite a following in the far right sphere at the moment. He's been making a lot of
25:27interferences, comments about UK politics of late, particularly on quite controversial issues. And do you think this kind of speaks to
25:36the attitude of this kind of new Trump and Republican Party we're seeing being forged by Trump? Are we going to expect more
25:43interference, obviously the threat of more money being given to reform, for example, which would massively shake up how campaigning
25:49works here in the UK?
25:50Yeah, I think so. Well, what was interesting was all the tech bros also lined up in that front row. So he's clearly marking what he
26:01wants to do in terms of that area over the next four years. In terms of Elon Musk, as a channel, I can talk like that in terms of news and
26:09current affairs. We're considering how we approach X from now on in terms of the way that it's very much not being an all sides platform to
26:21be able to broadcast on. Not balanced. Absolutely not. Let's just be frank. Let's be frank. Not balanced at all. And, you know, when he's
26:30thinking that Nigel Farage is too far on the left foot for him, that kind of also is an interesting thing to read into. So Elon Musk, who knows
26:41what he wants to do?
26:41Well, I think we'll have to end it on that note. No, not enough time. Can't pause the show. Too much talking, not enough time. See you next
26:50week. Thank you so much.
26:51Transcribed by https://otter.ai