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00:00Joining us right now, three-time NBA champion, he's the EVP and Managing Executive at Wasserman,
00:05he co-hosts the Pushin' Through pod, he was a former warrior, he worked in a front office
00:10with the Bulls, he was an agent, what's up BJ, how you doing man?
00:14Oh man, it's always great to hear you, happy new year, happy everything, I'm doing well,
00:22I'm doing as I say, only terrific, only terrific.
00:24Good, good to hear BJ, BJ and I go way back to 1995 I believe, but let me ask you this,
00:32and I'm going to start with the Warriors BJ, because during the off-season there was a
00:36lot of talk about getting Steph Curry some help, they went after Paul George, they went
00:40after Mark Innan, and in the course of the last week, we've heard Draymond and Steph
00:45Curry and Steve Kerr talking about how they can't mortgage the future, it would be irresponsible,
00:51and it sounds to me like they don't feel like a move for a veteran that would involve
00:56maybe future first-round picks is something they want to do, where do you think the Golden
01:02State Warriors are right now?
01:04Well, you know, there's always a price to be paid when you have a level of success that
01:11the Warriors and the franchise have had, you know, when you look at teams that have a sustained
01:17level of success, which they have, right?
01:21They've had, what, four championships in a 10-year period, they were playing at an elite
01:26level for so many years, and now they've moved into the phase that every championship-level
01:33organization, regardless of sport, has this challenge, okay?
01:37And we all know this, who've had an opportunity to win and win at a high level, when it ends,
01:42guys, it never ends well.
01:44And now they've moved into that phase of this process.
01:49These guys, they really pulled off something that was almost impossible.
01:55They drafted all of the players that were key components, right?
01:59They drafted Draymond Green, they drafted Klay Thompson, they drafted Steph Curry.
02:03They were able to retain those players.
02:06They were able to succeed and have success.
02:09They were able to build role players, and they acquired players through free agency
02:14a la Kevin Durant.
02:16They were able to get Andre Iguodala, and then you had Sean Livingston, and you had
02:21all of these things that came together in basically the perfect storm.
02:25And here we are now at the phase where, you know, guys are at the, they're not at the
02:31tail end of their career, but let's say they've passed another version of where they were
02:38just three or four years ago.
02:40So right now, they have to realize, or they have to come to the conclusion is, what's
02:49best for us to compete at whatever level they think they have the level to do?
02:54If you're saying, if you want to do it at a championship level, they have to look at
02:57it from that lens.
02:58Do they want to be a team that's competitive?
03:00Look at it from that lens.
03:02However, what we do know, and we've seen this now for many, many years, Matt, you've been
03:06around, it never ends well.
03:10It never ends well.
03:12That's the price that has to be paid.
03:14That's the reality.
03:16We have to enjoy where Steph is at in his career, where Draymond is at in his career.
03:21Steve Kerr went through this as a player.
03:23He was there with the Bulls.
03:25How did that end?
03:26How do they all end?
03:28It always ends this way.
03:29So here it is, we're witnessing it in real time now.
03:34And then you have to come to the reality, what's best for everyone moving forward, because
03:38those guys have achieved a level that, you know, many of us never get an opportunity.
03:44It's been a story.
03:47It's a phenomenal story.
03:49However, right now it's tough.
03:52Winning is very hard in this league as it should be.
03:55And right now, you know, as we say in any successful franchise, winning covers a multitude
04:01of sins.
04:02All the problems they had during the championship, they have them now, except one thing, they're
04:06not winning.
04:09That's how this works.
04:10So it's unfortunate, but you ask anyone in any sport, you ask any coach, you ask anyone
04:18who's had a level of sustained success, this is part of the process, okay?
04:24So when you want to be successful and you want to be a champion, here's the key, choose
04:30hard.
04:31Right now, they have to choose the hard decision.
04:33And that hard decision is hard for anyone to make because you have experienced so many
04:39positives with those people in the locker room.
04:41But the hard decision is, what are we going to do next?
04:45And everyone knows what that decision is.
04:47You're going to have to do something to infuse, to get you back on the winning track.
04:53If they're looking at it and saying, we're going to do something that's different than
04:57the previous people because everyone kind of goes through this process and we go through
05:02this and what do we need?
05:04We're going to get a veteran player.
05:05Oh, we got to get through the regular season before we get to the playoffs so we can do
05:09all those things.
05:10Right.
05:11Choose hard is the hardest thing to do.
05:13So as it was explained to me in my playing days, the hardest thing to do is the right
05:17thing.
05:18Everyone knows what the right thing to do.
05:20You got to put the best players on the floor.
05:22And right now, they're struggling.
05:26The team is struggling right now.
05:28You're right around 500 or somewhere around there.
05:29I haven't looked recently at the standings, but it's tough.
05:37It's tough to see it because we all remember the great days.
05:40We all remember the glory years.
05:42But this is tough to watch right now.
05:44Wow, BJ, I agree with you.
05:46And I was excited to talk to you because you have the player, the front office, the agent
05:51perspective.
05:52And my question, BJ, is do organizations owe the top players anything in regard to the
05:57moves they make?
05:59And the reason I ask you that is the Bulls didn't do that with Michael.
06:02They said no.
06:03But I want your thoughts on that question.
06:07Well, when you're when you are an executive, right, and you you take you sit in that chair,
06:15you have to do with the best thing and the best for the organization.
06:20When you are a player, you take on the responsibility, especially when you're the best player.
06:25You have to do what's best for the organization.
06:28Right.
06:29And you have to do what's in your best interest because you have an impact on the bottom line
06:33and the bottom line is sports is winning.
06:36Performance is the X factor here.
06:37OK, now, when you have that responsibility and you take on that responsibility as the
06:42best player, that means there's an accountability that comes with being the best player.
06:47That's what makes you great.
06:48When you take on the responsibility, is there any doubt who's going to get the last shot
06:52for the Warriors in a close game on an incredible job?
06:57The one thing that makes great teams great is this one word professionalism.
07:02Steph Curry is the ultimate professional, the ultimate professional.
07:07And I think this organization is at a place like we all get there where you have to have
07:14a different conversation.
07:15And a different conversation is, what is it that we're ultimately trying to achieve here?
07:20That's it.
07:21It's just, it's just as simple as that.
07:25Now, what do they owe you?
07:27They owe you the conversation to have and figure out what is best for all parties involved.
07:34Steph Curry is a professional, he's a pro's pro.
07:38That young man walked into the NBA a professional at the highest level.
07:42And when you see him, and he provides the level of leadership that you guys have been,
07:49it's been a joy to watch because you don't see this often.
07:52He's not just the best player, he's an incredible leader.
07:57So what is owed here is the conversation that the organization and the best player, and
08:04the player, people need to sit in the room, you know, Coach Kerr and Mike Dungleavy and
08:09all of those guys that are there, they have to sit there and have an honest conversation
08:14to say what we need to do next.
08:17That's just, everyone reaches that.
08:19So the conversation, the tough conversation has to be had.
08:23This is nothing new in sports.
08:25And then what's those people who all, who have all earned the right to have a voice
08:32in that conversation.
08:33And then they move forward.
08:35That's one thing I can say, they have excellent leadership there.
08:39Steve Kerr knows this, Coach Kerr knows this, Steph Curry knows this, they know it.
08:45Now you gotta do it.
08:46I mean, it's one thing to say it, and then it's one thing to do it.
08:50These are hard conversations because you love the person that has been with you for the
08:56last, what, how long have these guys been together now, 10 plus years or something?
08:59Yeah, 12, 13.
09:00So this is a hard conversation because you don't want that to end.
09:04You know how hard it is to win.
09:07You don't ascend to that level without choosing hard.
09:11They chose hard and they did it.
09:14Now they're getting older and now they gotta figure out how to do it in a different way.
09:20That is their choice.
09:21Right.
09:22B.J. Armstrong, join us on 95.7 The Game, three-time NBA champion, he was a player agent,
09:28worked in the front office of the Chicago Bulls.
09:31You know, when we're looking at Steph Curry, we all have a tendency to compare him to other
09:36great players who got older.
09:39We think about guys like Magic, LeBron, Duncan, Dirk, even Kareem.
09:44But is there a unique challenge for a guard who's getting older?
09:49Like I'm thinking of Stockton and Nash.
09:52They played long, but they were more passers at the end.
09:57But does Steph have a unique challenge as somebody who's 6'3", versus a bigger guy?
10:02Yeah, man, that's a great question.
10:05Yes, there are challenges as you mature.
10:08I'm sensitive to saying getting old, because we all get old as we play.
10:13But as you mature, and there's a different challenge, for instance, that one of the greatest
10:20as you evolve, as you mature as a player, Tim Duncan, to me, probably did it as gracefully
10:28as I've seen, because he came in as the number one option.
10:31By the end, when they won a championship, that last one, he was probably the fourth option.
10:37Big guys have an advantage over the little guys, because no matter what, Tim Duncan,
10:40when he was later in his career, he was still 7'0".
10:45The little guys, Steph Curry and all of us, okay, we lose our speed and quickness.
10:51Your size and your strength stays the same.
10:53You're probably stronger as you get older, but he didn't have to rely on speed and quickness
10:59as he matured in this league, where Steph Curry and others, once you lose a step, and
11:07Java Rant keeps coming, those guys seem like they're getting faster and faster.
11:12I can remember my moment, I was backpedaling, and Alan Iverson was dribbling right at me.
11:18And for some reason, he was moving way faster than I was backpedaling.
11:24And those guys keep coming, they keep getting faster, and they keep moving.
11:29Yes, there are challenges.
11:31Steph has matured.
11:35He's done it with grace in how he's done it.
11:38However, those guys seem, every year, to keep getting faster and faster as they come into
11:42the league.
11:43And there is a different challenge, and that's the challenge that we all face as guards.
11:48BJ, I don't want to put you on the hot seat, but if you were Joe Lakeup, or you were Mike
11:53Dunleavy, and you were in this Warrior front office, and you got the question about Kaminga,
11:58who is the most athletic player on your team, and it feels like it's his time, what would
12:04you do, looking at where the Warriors are at right now, at 19 and 20, and questions
12:10to have answers?
12:10Because a lot of fans want change.
12:14Well, yeah, it is.
12:15And today's NBA, we have a problem that we just didn't have, let's say, in that era when
12:25I played, which is, you know, 25, 30 years ago now.
12:30We make a commitment to these young people to develop them.
12:33That's just, that's a fact, okay?
12:35We make this commitment.
12:37So my advice to anyone in this league, every owner, to the NBA, would be, we must provide
12:45a system for these young people to grow.
12:48That's just what it is now.
12:50Because they're not going to school for four years like the previous generation did.
12:55They're not coming into this league experienced.
12:58They're not coming in here with the fundamentals that the previous generation did.
13:04Are they phenomenal athletes?
13:06Yes.
13:06Are they incredibly with speed, equipment, agility?
13:10Yes, we see all those things.
13:11However, we must have a system in place to get them to be professionals.
13:17And the professional means they are who they are, whether the lights are on or the lights
13:22are off.
13:23And right now, when that young man was drafted, I believe out of the G League, me, and I'm
13:30saying the entire NBA community, we made a commitment to have a system in place for that
13:34young man to grow, not only on the court, but off the court as well.
13:37And now we're going through it because when you see him and some of the things he's able
13:41to do on the court, he gives you those wild moments.
13:45And that's why we're having this discussion.
13:47This is not a talent issue here.
13:49We have to go through this process called development.
13:52Every team in the league is facing this.
13:54But I can assure you this, that young man, Kaminga, is a very talented player.
13:59And I don't know how long it will be before he becomes a professional, meaning he will
14:04be a 20 point score night in and night out.
14:06And he has an excellent example in Steph Curry.
14:09He doesn't have to look far to see what a professional looks like.
14:11He doesn't have to look far to see how that looks on the defensive end with a Draymond
14:15Green.
14:16He doesn't have far to listen to someone like a Steve Kerr.
14:20But in the end, we have to have a system in place where the young person says, I can take
14:26the easy path or I can choose the hard path.
14:29Because the three people I just named, they all chose hard.
14:31And we see the results.
14:33And you guys, as fans up there in the Bay Area, you've seen that.
14:38You've seen what that does.
14:40If Kaminga chooses hard, if he just makes that one choice in life, he'll be the next
14:46great go to state warrior to come through there in a line of great players and great
14:50talents to Chris Mullins, to Tim Hardaways and all.
14:53He will join those guys if he chooses hard.
14:56And right now, he's a young player and he's at a, he can go right or he can go left.
15:02But this isn't a talent issue from what I can see from afar.
15:05Yeah, no, certainly not.
15:06B.J. Armstrong joining us on 95.7 The Game, three-time NBA champion, worked in the front
15:11office of the Bulls, player-agent.
15:13This is one thing I've always been interested in, B.J., as it relates to Michael Jordan.
15:18So when Jordan left the Bulls, you know, the Bulls have, I guess, never really signed a
15:25star free agent since Michael Jordan, you know, retired.
15:29And I think there's a sentiment out there that the idea of following Michael Jordan
15:35as a free agent is, you know, it's a lot to ask.
15:39After Steph's gone and the four titles are put to bed, do you think the Warriors may
15:45have an issue signing if they want to go the route of signing a big boy free agent?
15:52Would you be reluctant to come here as a big boy and have to follow in the footsteps of
15:57a Steph Curry, or is that a non-issue?
15:59Well, Matt, you know, when we say a free agent, clearly, that's the easiest way to get to
16:06success, right?
16:07Because you're taking an experienced player from someone else who's gone through the
16:11growing pains, and then you're coming there and reaping all the benefits.
16:14Okay, is that the quickest way?
16:17If that player, if that player wants to accept that responsibility.
16:21However, if you're going to build a team, roster construction is a real, a real thing.
16:27A real thing.
16:28And I can assure you that Joe Lacob and Dunleavy and Steve Kerr and all of these guys, they've
16:35had these discussions, okay?
16:37If you're going to build a team in today, you have to do it through the draft, because
16:42the draft rewards you in being able to retain those players.
16:47Because remember, we're talking about taking a player from another team.
16:52I don't want to be the guy where I develop the player and then he suddenly leaves because
16:56he becomes disgruntled for something I'm not doing.
16:59So in the end, they're going to have to make the decision of, I don't know where that next
17:06great player is going to come from.
17:08He may contain the draft.
17:09He may come from free agency.
17:11He may come in a train.
17:13But we have to have a system where we can do, we can also exercise the fourth option.
17:18He may develop from within.
17:20Right.
17:20He may already be in your building right now.
17:23It could be Jonathan Kaminka.
17:24So we have to be prepared for wherever that player comes from, because now the system
17:32that we've relied upon for the last, let's say, 50 years or more has been the college
17:39curriculum or the college basketball system.
17:42It's no longer available to us.
17:44The best players in the NBA right now, the best young players are all from abroad.
17:48Jokic, Giannis, Wim Biyama is going to be probably the next young player for the next
17:5310, 15 years.
17:55Joel Embiid, Shea Alexander.
17:59We understand that this is a global game.
18:02Now, guys, I don't know where that next great player is going to come from.
18:05But the Warriors, like every other organization, they have to be prepared and identify that
18:10player.
18:11The key is don't miss that great player when he becomes available.
18:15Vijay, I want to ask you about Draymond Green because he's a great warrior and he's been
18:20one, but I don't always agree with his antics.
18:23But with that said, he's made it clear that he's part of the decision making with the
18:27Golden State Warriors.
18:29And I just wanted to run by you.
18:30Do you think that's a good or a bad thing?
18:34Well, you know, I think it's a great thing because it's required to be successful in
18:45professional sports, right?
18:47You know, it's one thing.
18:49I'm the coach.
18:49He's the GM.
18:51OK, here are the four people.
18:52You have the owner, you have the executive, you have the coach and you have the player.
18:58If the players do not have the ability to communicate and have a voice at that table,
19:03you have no chance.
19:06OK, now, here's the thing that makes this interesting that all the great organizations
19:12understand.
19:13You must come to that table and sit at that table with respect for everyone else's job.
19:18I don't have to agree with the decisions, but you better come to the table.
19:22With the respect to say the owner has got to do what the owner has to do.
19:26That president, GM has to do what they have to do.
19:29The coach has to coach.
19:31And guess what that player has to do?
19:32That player has to play.
19:33It's great to have a voice, but everybody's got to perform and hold each other accountable.
19:37So as long as you're communicating, you have a chance to work in a collaborative spirit.
19:44And if you get everybody on the same page under one thought, you have a chance to win
19:48in this league.
19:49It doesn't guarantee it.
19:50So I think it's great that they have a culture in which everyone has a voice, because if
19:56you give the players responsibility.
19:59And the players accept that responsibility, nine times out of 10, you're going to have
20:03a winning team.
20:04It's when the players say, hey, you're the coach and I'm the player when I get concerned.
20:10So I love the fact that Coach Kerr may go to Draymond and say how you want to defend
20:15screen role.
20:16So that puts the pressure on the player who's playing.
20:19So they've exhibited excellence for so long now that we just take it for granted.
20:25That's not a normal thing when they allow the players to have a voice.
20:30You don't have to agree with the voice, but your voice should be heard and we can respect
20:35one another.
20:36So that is the lesson learned.
20:38And the Warriors have done that at an elite level.
20:40And that comes from the top.
20:42So Joe Lacob and company, they deserve credit for that.
20:45But those players went out there and they executed that as well.
20:49So it's a win-win for any organization that wants to be at the top.
20:54So BJ, your message to Warrior fans would be, look, this franchise is in the natural
21:00position that any franchise coming off four rings would be in.
21:05Yeah, hey, it happens to all of us.
21:09The Warrior fans should go contact the Bulls fans and they can have a conversation.
21:14How did it end for you?
21:16And then they should contact the San Antonio fans.
21:19Hey, you guys won five.
21:20How did it end for you?
21:21Everyone should contact each other.
21:22And then, hey, Boston fans, how did it end for you guys when you're winning all the championships
21:27and the Laker fans?
21:28And then they'll say, hmm, I'm not alone here.
21:31However, it's one of the greatest problems to have because it's going to happen to you.
21:36It is what it is.
21:38But the challenge is you only lose a fight when you stay down on the mat.
21:45There's another game tomorrow.
21:47They got to get back up and they got to stay in the fight.
21:49So the Warrior fans, let's stay in the fight because the last championship you won, that's
21:54what you did.
21:55I don't know who believed that you were going to win that last championship other than the
21:58Warriors fans, but you won it because you stayed in the fight.
22:02So my advice, it may not look good today, but I can assure you this.
22:08Steve Kerr, who I know very well, he's got to stay in the fight.
22:12Steph Curry, I've been knowing him since he was a little kid.
22:15He's going to stay in the fight.
22:16Drayvon is going to.
22:17He may start the fight.
22:18Drayvon.
22:19Okay.
22:20And all of those other players will follow.
22:23So they have excellent leadership.
22:26And then let's see how it plays out.
22:27And that's all you really can ask.
22:29And we'll see.
22:31But I love the spirit of this team, but it happens to all of us.
22:35And I just wish we could all get the magic potions where we could stay young.
22:40And then we could just keep this going forever.
22:42Exactly.
22:43Exactly.
22:44Hey, man, thank you so much for joining us.
22:46Really generous with your time.
22:48Hope you're doing well.
22:50Following you from out here in the Bay.
22:51And I love you, buddy.
22:53Hey, love you, too.
22:54Love you guys.
22:55Thanks again.
22:55And I enjoyed it.
22:57All right, man.
22:58B.J. Armstrong, ladies and gentlemen, three-time NBA champion, player, agent,
23:03front office with the Chicago Bulls.
23:05Sounds happy.
23:06All around.
23:06Living his best life, man.