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PTI And Govt Negotiation End...! | Off The Record | Kashif Abbasi | ARY News | 23rd January 2025


Host:
- Kashif Abbasi

Guests:
- Sahibzada Hamid Raza PTI
- Talal Chaudhry
Transcript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, dear viewers, the negotiations between the government and the opposition
00:24in Islamabad have almost failed.
00:27We already knew that nothing would come out of it.
00:29The good news is that the politicians have finally sat down and negotiated.
00:34The problem is that everyone knew that these negotiations would fail and the solution to the problem would not come out.
00:41Politicians cannot solve the problem.
00:44There is no solution to the problem in our democratic system.
00:47In our country, if the negotiations are on some principle, then perhaps a solution will come out.
00:52If these two parties of government and justice sit together,
00:56see how to run this country, what will be the role of the establishment,
01:00who will be ready to go to what extent, or what not to do in this country, then perhaps the problem would be solved.
01:06In our country, more talks are on who has profit and loss.
01:11You will remember the Charter of Democracy.
01:13Everyone agreed on the principle.
01:16How to run the system, who will run it, everyone talked about it and the solution came out.
01:21The reason was that at that time, two big political parties of the country were in line.
01:25Both the leaders were Jalawatan.
01:27There was one opponent, Parvez Musharraf.
01:29There was Amriyat.
01:30In the system, both Mr. Mian and Ms. Benazir Bhutto were not in place.
01:34He openly said that he would not let them return to Pakistan.
01:37These circumstances brought them together and forced them to sit in London.
01:41But as soon as the circumstances changed, what happened?
01:44The first opportunity was to meet Ms. Benazir Bhutto in Abu Dhabi with Mr. Parvez Musharraf.
01:52Even his own party did not know that she had gone to meet someone in Abu Dhabi.
01:57The CEC was going on in London.
01:59One day, she was released, but no one knew why those meetings were not held that day.
02:04When Pakistan came back, you will remember which COD, COD, what kind of system, those old ways.
02:11Even now, the chances of failure of negotiations were high because the principle is fixed.
02:16One's political gain, the other's political loss.
02:19And in our political system, our people want win-win.
02:23In any case, victory and the standard of victory is power.
02:27What kind of democracy, what kind of human rights?
02:29We shoot people for political needs.
02:32We put the poor in jail.
02:33We celebrate it.
02:35We distribute sweets.
02:36In our country, politics is a game to advance interests, not to follow the principles.
02:41That's why negotiations were going to fail in our country.
02:45Last night, I was listening to Mr. Rana.
02:47I was surprised to hear a statement.
02:48First listen to what Mr. Rana was saying.
03:00I was surprised to hear Mr. Rana.
03:03I was surprised, worried.
03:05There were a lot of mixed emotions.
03:08Mr. Rana, I think he is one of the most intelligent, intelligent and intelligent politicians in this country.
03:13He understands the situation.
03:15He knows history.
03:16He is experienced.
03:18I did not expect such a statement from him.
03:20Because his arguments are very weak.
03:23History proves his statement wrong.
03:25There is a culture of deal in this country.
03:29And the deal is always with the establishment of a single political party or alliance.
03:33In the 90s, the musical chairs of the fall of the government were the result of all the deals.
03:38If you look at the politics of the present century, there have been only deals.
03:42Whether it was wearing a black coat on the memo gate and going to the Supreme Court.
03:45The 2014 protest came to Islamabad.
03:48Mr. Nawaz Sharif's 50 rupee stamp paper was sent abroad.
03:52Or the success of the way of non-confidence was the result of all the deals.
03:56Whenever non-confidence was asked, our politicians said the same thing.
04:00If you want to be established, you cannot be successful.
04:03But then what did this politics give us?
04:06If there is confusion, there will be confusion.
04:08Power talks to power.
04:10We have got all this in the past 3-4 years.
04:13Mr. Rana, when the deal was made, you will not know for sure.
04:18There will be negotiations.
04:20You will not know about that either.
04:22This country will have to get out of this deal mentality and deal making.
04:27Tariq-e-Insaaf is very happy after a meeting in Peshawar.
04:30It is jumping.
04:31They always talk about negotiations with the establishment.
04:34Because maybe they will be more comfortable on that side.
04:37But they also know that it is the power center of this country.
04:40And the way to change the situation will come from the one who has more power.
04:45This is why democracy has been weak in our country.
04:48Because political parties are always ready to give their shoulder.
04:52Principles are only in the opposition and to the extent of speeches.
04:56Yesterday, a Baloch friend was sitting with me in the office.
04:59He said laughingly, why do the speeches on the rights and missing persons of the Baloch people
05:03only by the opposition parties in this country?
05:06Why do they become silent after coming to power?
05:09And then all of us laughed together.
05:12Everyone knew why this happens.
05:14In the opposition, politics only tries to open the doors that sit on the chair of power.
05:21This is why good principles and good statements are given.
05:24And what is strange about that chair, people find it difficult to recognize it as soon as they sit.
05:29And after 2018, there is a new hype in this country that there is an alliance between the government and the establishment.
05:34Due to which the pressure of institutions and political figures is increasing.
05:38Look at the PICA law.
05:39A law was passed today.
05:42It was approved by the government in the National Assembly.
05:46Parliamentarians were not even given a chance to argue on this bill to give freedom to the media.
05:51All journalistic organizations are openly protesting.
05:54I don't know why the sword of every government finds the neck of the media first.
05:59Now, what will happen?
06:02We will talk about this in today's program.
06:04The Safi community is also protesting on this.
06:07Mr. Hamid Raza is present with us.
06:09Thank you very much.
06:10Chairman of the Sunni Ta'at Council, Mr. Talal Chaudhry.
06:12Thank you very much for being the Secretary of the Muslim League.
06:14Mr. Hamid Raza, are the negotiations over?
06:19Almost over.
06:21Sir, how can it be almost over?
06:23We still have a few more hours.
06:25As of today, the directions that Mr. Khan has come to me from the jail,
06:30are that if by tonight, that is, in today's date,
06:34if it is not agreed principally by the request of the Judicial Commission,
06:39then the negotiations are over.
06:41So, I will consider it over.
06:43So, if one thing is not done by 8 or 8.15,
06:46do you think it will be done by 12 o'clock?
06:48No, no, it won't be done.
06:49I am clear on this.
06:50Mr. Talal, I will come to you later.
06:52What is your next move?
06:53Yesterday, you were also tried to be arrested.
06:56Today, Mr. Murad Khan tweeted for you.
06:58Yesterday, I was at a press conference.
07:00I had to make a decision on Al-Qaeda.
07:02I was there and then the turn of the police reached Nafri.
07:06And it was in such a large number.
07:10But because the place where I was, I could not be arrested there.
07:13Our own two and a half thousand people were present there.
07:15Okay, I didn't know.
07:16So, then the statement came later.
07:18There are some places here where the police can't do anything.
07:21That statement came later, that they had come to protect me.
07:23I said, I am so grateful.
07:25That I am already in the top 5 in the hate list of banned outlets and militant outlets.
07:30My security government had already withdrawn.
07:33So, yesterday, in such a large number,
07:36they wanted to take me away just to give me security.
07:42Or God knows what happened.
07:43It is possible that they wanted to give security.
07:45Mr. Chaudhary, jokes aside.
07:47Everyone knew that yesterday was a failure.
07:49No one had any doubt about it.
07:51But even you must not be surprised.
07:53In the name of Allah, the most Merciful.
07:55Look, first of all, I would like to request you that the administration is very sensible.
08:02A school which is famous in Faisalabad.
08:05Where their respected parents contributed a lot.
08:09So, they can't even think of going there and arresting them.
08:13So, I think that if the administration says something,
08:16they should accept that it is a fact.
08:20And it is a very big school in Faisalabad.
08:22Sir, just a second.
08:23Just a second.
08:24Just a second.
08:25I have something to say. Listen to me.
08:27When the administration used to say that Nawaz Sharif has committed a theft,
08:30you used to believe that he has been arrested.
08:32No, no. Nawaz Sharif.
08:33Sir, I just want to say one thing.
08:34Mr. Talal has said it.
08:35Till today, you have not believed the administration.
08:37Just two months ago, sir,
08:39our sitting MP, Mr. Hassan Niazi,
08:42from the same office where I was present yesterday,
08:44my younger brother and our 16 workers,
08:47were arrested by the administration from the same place.
08:50This is the administration.
08:51This is the administration and this is the place.
08:52Look, if they wanted to arrest them,
08:54they would have done it yesterday as well.
08:56As Mr. Zardar is saying, they would have done it earlier as well.
08:58If they didn't want to do it, they didn't do it.
09:00Now, let's move forward.
09:01Let's move forward to the discussion.
09:03Look, the purpose of this discussion is that…
09:05I won't say anything.
09:07You should listen to what the administration has to say.
09:09I really like your statement.
09:10No, my…
09:11You don't listen anyway.
09:12But you have to listen to what others have to say.
09:14The discussion,
09:16what is my narrative on this,
09:18or what I used to think, I will talk about that later.
09:20Look, this discussion started.
09:22There were three phases to it.
09:24There were two phases to it,
09:26or there were two meetings.
09:28In those, PTI could not give its demands in written form.
09:32They gave it for the third time.
09:34It took seven days.
09:36The seven working days,
09:38the working days,
09:39were completed on the 28th.
09:41There are seven jamaats that are separate.
09:44Seven jamaats…
09:45What is your jamaat, sir?
09:46Your jamaat…
09:47One second.
09:48I will listen to you.
09:49Sir, I will talk about the whole thing first.
09:50No, I will start talking about you.
09:51Sir, I will…
09:52The issue is that your party's important people have said that
09:55we will not make a judicial commission.
09:57Sir, it is possible that I will say the same.
09:59I have said that I will talk about myself.
10:02You are talking about Khawaja Asif.
10:04Yes, yes, of course.
10:05Of course, I am standing in line with him in this narrative.
10:08Then what is the point of waiting till the 28th?
10:11Listen to me now.
10:12Look, we can have our own point of view in the jamaat.
10:16Listen to me now.
10:17In Mazaak Raat, to seriously consider the non-serious demands,
10:23the Prime Minister made a committee.
10:25In that, the Deputy Prime Minister,
10:27the seven jamaats that are separate from us,
10:29there were representatives from all the seven jamaats.
10:31All the seven jamaats took time to discuss with their jamaats for 2-3 days.
10:35There were legal experts in that as well
10:37because they had demanded a commission in that.
10:39We had to give them an answer by the 28th.
10:44So, you are saying that you will wait till the 28th.
10:47No, no, listen to me.
10:49Did you take time to discuss your point of view in three meetings?
10:55That you will not give it today, tomorrow, the day after tomorrow,
10:58you will not give a written answer, you will not do this and that.
11:00Did you take time?
11:01Our committee…
11:04No, no, listen to us.
11:05No, no, listen to me.
11:06Look, what did their committee decide?
11:08Are they included in that?
11:09What did they decide?
11:10That they will not be affected by the statements from outside.
11:14Now, the thing is that they should have waited for our answer.
11:18What is the problem?
11:19The problem is that they want to remove NRO from Mazaak Raat.
11:24Bani PTI is not able to do that.
11:28Look, the problem is that they did not say that they will reduce the price of electricity.
11:32They did not say that they will reduce the price of gas.
11:35They did not say that they will fight terrorism.
11:37There are two things in this.
11:40I, I, I, I apologize.
11:43Okay, I, I, I, I apologize.
11:45On 26th November and 9th May, how?
11:49You have so many evidences.
11:51We make videos on 9th May.
11:55I don't know where they come from.
11:58You have so much evidence.
12:01How do they escape from this?
12:02Listen to me.
12:03This is why they are asking.
12:05If there are no open and shut cases, if there are no two-in-two cases,
12:10if they feel that the penalty of 190 million rupees is not open and shut,
12:15there are no two-in-two cases,
12:16they will go to the higher courts and be struck down.
12:19Or they will be saved from 9th May.
12:21Or we do not have the evidences of 26th May.
12:24When they know that there are evidences,
12:26then there is only one of them,
12:28that somehow they will be forgiven from this.
12:30But if you have evidences, they will ask for one thing.
12:33They are not asking you to look into their case and release them.
12:36There is no question of release in the written evidence.
12:39One minute.
12:40They are asking you to decide on 9th May.
12:43One minute.
12:44We have decided.
12:45Let's talk about you.
12:46On 26th November, whether you will shoot or not.
12:48Sir, I am saying.
12:50I am saying, listen to me.
12:51We have decided.
12:53Let's wait for two days.
12:54We have waited for their three meetings.
12:57You give us the written evidence.
12:59Okay?
13:00Show some seriousness.
13:03Kashif sir, first of all,
13:05the first and second round of negotiations,
13:08the meeting that we had with Imran Khan,
13:12that was the main thing.
13:13That we will meet in an uncontrolled atmosphere.
13:16Sir, you can't do that.
13:18No, sir.
13:19Let's do it in a controlled way.
13:20After the second round, we will do it in a controlled way.
13:21You can't do that.
13:22Sir, listen.
13:23Why is this phase happening today?
13:26When the third meeting took place,
13:28you can take out the announcement of the third meeting.
13:31In that, it was said that
13:33you will meet Imran Khan in two to three days.
13:37The seven working days are completed on the 26th.
13:40His meeting was scheduled on the 27th.
13:42But the government said that
13:43we will do it one more day.
13:44We will do it on the 28th or 27th.
13:46Whatever we do.
13:47Sir, even after a week,
13:49what was said that we will meet by Monday,
13:52we could not meet till today.
13:55Number one.
13:56Number two.
13:57Number two.
13:59You are putting me aside.
14:01Irfan Siddiqui had said that
14:03the Ministry of Internal Affairs…
14:05You understood, right?
14:06You were saying that
14:07we are not capable.
14:08We are not capable.
14:09They don't want the meetings to be held.
14:11You were saying this earlier.
14:12The second thing.
14:13The NRO's promise that
14:15we wanted to remove NRO from the negotiations.
14:17Basically, the government
14:19wanted to develop a perception of NRO.
14:23They were assuming that
14:25when Imran Khan's release was written
14:27in the draft that we will give there,
14:29then that paper will be said
14:31that Imran Khan has been released.
14:34Immediately after that paper,
14:36the press conference that
14:37Irfan Siddiqui and Rana Sanaullah did,
14:40was it a press conference
14:41that took place after the first two rounds?
14:43Why did it happen?
14:44It happened because
14:45the draft itself was so irritating.
14:48The draft itself was so punchy.
14:50I thought that
14:51there was tension because of the Peshawar meeting.
14:53That was one factor.
14:55Let me be very honest.
14:56Basically, there were two factors.
14:58In that draft,
14:59in the third committee meeting,
15:01it was said that
15:02you have done a charge sheet.
15:04It was said in the meeting?
15:05It was said, sir.
15:06That you have done a charge sheet to the government.
15:09It was said from that side.
15:10That his tongue could have been soft.
15:12We said that it could have been soft.
15:14We were telling you twice
15:15that in the minutes of the meeting,
15:17two demands have been included verbally.
15:19Accept both.
15:20You asked for a written statement,
15:21I asked for a written statement.
15:22Give me the draft.
15:23This is all.
15:24On the 9th of May,
15:25let me explain one thing.
15:26On the 9th of May,
15:27if there were six open and shut cases,
15:30or whatever the cases were,
15:31one person at a time,
15:34with one date,
15:35how can he be present in 40 places?
15:37Who is that?
15:38There is no one person.
15:39All the cases that I have…
15:41How many places are you at at one place?
15:42I have 9 cases on the 9th of May.
15:45That I was at 9 places on the 9th of May,
15:48at a time at one place.
15:50I was in Faisalabad, I was in Lahore, I was in Sargodha, I was in Faisalabad, I was in
16:00Samanabad, I was at the office of ISI, I was in Lahore, I was in Mianwali, I was in Jadamala,
16:10I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in
16:20Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala,
16:30I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in
16:40Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
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26:10in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
26:20in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
26:30in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
26:40in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
26:50in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
27:00in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
27:10in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
27:20in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
27:30in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
27:40in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
27:50in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
28:00in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
28:10in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
28:20in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
28:30in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
28:40in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
28:50in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
29:00in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
29:10in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
29:20in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
29:30in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
29:40in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
29:50in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
30:00in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
30:10in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
30:20in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
30:30in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
30:40in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
30:50in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
31:00in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
31:10in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
31:20in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
31:30in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
31:40in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
31:50in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
32:00in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
32:10in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
32:20in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
32:30in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
32:40in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
32:50in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
33:00in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
33:10in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
33:20in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
33:30in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
33:40in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
33:50in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
34:00in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
34:10in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
34:20in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
34:30in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
34:40in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
34:50in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
35:00in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
35:10in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
35:20in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
35:30in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
35:40in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
35:50in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
36:00in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
36:10in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
36:20in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
36:30in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
36:38in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
36:48in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was
36:58in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was in Jadamala, I was

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