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(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Muhammad Malick
Guests:
- Salman Akram Raja PTI
- Mazhar Abbas (Senior Analyst)
- Afzal Butt (President PFUJ)
Is the black law against media a need of the government or others? Muhammad Malick Bold Analysis
Barrister Gohar Khan's meeting with an important figure in Islamabad? Inside News
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Muhammad Malick
Guests:
- Salman Akram Raja PTI
- Mazhar Abbas (Senior Analyst)
- Afzal Butt (President PFUJ)
Is the black law against media a need of the government or others? Muhammad Malick Bold Analysis
Barrister Gohar Khan's meeting with an important figure in Islamabad? Inside News
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, you are watching Khabar Lahariya, I am Muhammad Malik.
00:17First of all, we can say that today the democracy in Pakistan has become naked.
00:22Within 15 minutes, the Pekah Amendment Bill was passed in the Senate.
00:26After that, it will be difficult to breathe in this country, there will be no freedom to think, talk or do anything.
00:36Anyway, let's talk for a long time, today there was agitation in the whole country.
00:40Today, the journalistic community held a demonstration in the whole country, outside the press clubs, everywhere.
00:45In Islamabad, the police tried to show their typical role, tried to catch the observer and there was a little rough handling at one place.
00:55But thank God, there was no unfortunate incident.
00:57But a very big movement is now starting, and whoever does not like it will make a big mistake.
01:02We will talk about this in detail, and we will also talk about the fact that the government is running the first fake news.
01:08Which is saying that we have brought this bill so that we can control social media.
01:13This itself is a fake news.
01:15Why? How is this fake news? We will talk about this in the program.
01:19But first, let's talk about the political situation.
01:22Officially, the dialogue between the PTI and the government has ended today.
01:27The PTI did not go to that meeting and made a lot of noise.
01:31The people of the PMLM government, the people of the allies, said that we had come, they would have talked.
01:37They had no intention, they are not used to talking.
01:40Earlier too, they had made excuses.
01:42In fact, Mr. Saghda said that if we had come, we would have brought something.
01:47As if there is something, should the PTI have boycotted this?
01:54Did they play into the hands of the government?
01:56Again, we will talk about this.
01:58The first part of the program is with us, Mr. Salman Akram Raja, Secretary General of the PTI.
02:02Assalamu Alaikum, Salman.
02:05Salman, let's start from here.
02:07If you had gone today, you would have called their bluff, which also gave the impression that we would have brought something.
02:15And these people said that today we will talk, and they themselves ended it unilaterally and left.
02:21Wasn't it better that you had called their bluff?
02:26No, see what they did.
02:27In our last session, the third session, we gave them our Charter of Demands written in great detail.
02:35And we have only two demands, that a commission be formed on 9th and 26th November,
02:40so that a non-partisan commission brings forward those incidents.
02:44So that the people know what is the truth, what is the lie, who is to blame and who is not to blame.
02:49Similarly, we said that people like Yasmeen Rashid Sahiba, Shah Mehmood Qureshi and hundreds of others,
02:55who have been in jail for 500 days, 600 days, who are not being bailed out, who are not being bailed out,
02:59which is the right of everyone, whose trial is not ending, let them be bailed out,
03:04including Imran Khan, where they are bound according to the law.
03:07As soon as they came out, they attacked us after the last third session.
03:11At the same time, within 20 minutes, they held a press conference and said that their demands are absurd.
03:16Then the Law Minister came, other ministers came one after the other, and they made fun of it,
03:21that this cannot happen, this is a matter in the courts, it is clear on 9th, why should we form a commission?
03:26Not at all, we reject it.
03:28The Minister of Information came and said that we reject their demands.
03:32Was there a need to say all this?
03:33You would have remained silent and waited for the fourth session.
03:37Not only this, they then attacked Hamid Reza Sahib's house.
03:40The day before yesterday, about 40 police wagons and buses went there,
03:46there were about 100 police officers, 4 DSPs, they were surrounded, they were attacked.
03:52Why? When you are willing to sit with us for two days,
03:55then what was the point of attacking our main spokesperson of the Discussion Team's house and Madrasa?
04:02The purpose was that we would be victimised in a way,
04:06that we would be shown that we are beating them, making fun of them,
04:10we are slapping them, and they are again coming to us to eat biscuits and tea.
04:14They are completely helpless.
04:16This is not the case.
04:17You have seen for yourself that this nation is awakening.
04:20What we have been saying for two years is that this attack is not on the PTI,
04:24this attack is on the fundamental character of Pakistan,
04:27that there should be freedom of expression, that there should be the right to stand,
04:30that there should be the right to walk, Article 17, Article 15, Constitution, everything was in vain.
04:35And people used to say that this is the PTI's problem, what will the PTI do now?
04:39We used to say that this is not our problem, this is your problem, this is the problem of the ruler,
04:43this is the problem of every person who has a mind, who has a tongue.
04:46Today you are standing with us, we can see it.
04:49Today we have started a conversation with every political force of Pakistan,
04:53which really wants to stand with these figures.
04:56We met Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman today, we will meet again in the future.
05:00We met Khakhan Abbasi, we are with Mahmood Khan Achakzai,
05:05Maulana Khan said to go and meet Arang Baloch, we will meet all the forces of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa,
05:10we will go to Sindh, we will meet the GDA communities, we will meet other communities.
05:14We want to stand on one point for the whole of Pakistan,
05:17that our fundamental character, as a human being, should be passed.
05:22Leave politics, this is everyone's matter, this is the matter of the people.
05:26Are we now seeing that you are once again going towards a full protest,
05:31because Junaid Akbar Sahib, who has become the Provincial President of KP,
05:37has always been seen as a hardliner, he is strict.
05:40Today he was saying on a television program, that the hardliners of the party,
05:45I will bring them to the front.
05:47So in KP, the hardline work is already going on.
05:51Now if those hardliners are saying with their mouths,
05:53and when they were there, everyone said that Khan Sahib has brought a very hardliner to the front.
05:59So are we now again going towards a full protest on the streets of your party?
06:07Look, this is absolutely possible.
06:09No one should think that the matter is over, now we will sit in committees.
06:14We have tried with absolute sincerity to engage the government,
06:19talk to them, tell them that there is nothing on your side,
06:22you also do not have any space, and try to take them along.
06:27But if they are happy with the government of Bisakhi, then they should be happy.
06:31We think that we have given them as much opportunity as we had to give them.
06:34No one can say that we did not talk with sincerity.
06:37We did not want to sit there and make a big deal out of it,
06:42and say that we attack you and you again come here to drink tea.
06:45We made the right decision.
06:47Now we will take all of you with us.
06:49The people of Pakistan will now make a decision.
06:51This is not a political decision, this is a fundamental decision that nations make.
06:56And I am sure that the people of Pakistan will make this decision
06:59in line with their rights, in line with their constitution.
07:02We hope that this decision will be made successfully.
07:06I totally agree with you.
07:08When I am talking about hardliners, it is not just about KP.
07:12I was seeing that another notification has come out today,
07:15in which your Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Relations,
07:19Zulfi Bukhari, Sajjad Barki, Shahbaz Gill,
07:23Atif Khan, who is also the head of your chapter,
07:26Zulfi Bukhari, Shahbaz Gill, Barki, all of them are very strong hawks.
07:32It seems that there are hawks everywhere.
07:36You are not considered a hawk, you are considered a very principled person.
07:40You are a man who works within the framework of the law.
07:43Will leaders like you, the Secretary General,
07:47be able to work with so many hawks?
07:52Time will tell whether it is a matter of hawks or not.
07:55You see what situation we are facing right now.
07:59After the 26th amendment, the courts are practically closed.
08:02No one now hopes that the laws that have been amended in the PQA
08:07will be rejected by the court.
08:08After the 26th amendment, it is said that in the Supreme Court,
08:12we will appoint 8 new judges, then 9 new judges,
08:15that is, the Supreme Court will consist of 34 judges.
08:18I think there has never been a bigger court packing than this in history.
08:23Right now, there is a complete attack on all of our legal and constitutional rights.
08:27In this situation, it is important for me and for everyone
08:30that we talk about constitutional law, but also talk about politics.
08:34We say that we do not accept this.
08:36You call them hawks or hardliners.
08:38I think they are the people who should inform the people within and outside of Pakistan
08:45that there is a very dangerous attack on fundamental rights in Pakistan.
08:50And a country with a population of 25 crores cannot be the subject of such an attack.
08:54It is a dangerous situation for the entire region.
08:56But there are some ground realities.
08:58You can alienate people in Punjab.
09:00Salman, there are some ground realities.
09:01There are no ground realities that cannot be changed.
09:04No.
09:04See, these ground realities are being thrown into the air.
09:07The PQA law has come, right?
09:08I see the PQA law in a different context.
09:11If the government or the establishment had to show any hesitation,
09:16then they would not have had to bring such black laws.
09:19Bringing such black laws means that in the coming days,
09:22there will be more strictness and more coercion.
09:25So, prepare in advance that neither the media nor anyone else can speak.
09:28So, this is a pre-emptive strike.
09:31If there was hesitation, then there was no need for these laws.
09:34This means that there will be more strictness.
09:36Now, there is a belief in the government, in the establishment.
09:39The belief is that after 25 November,
09:42they have broken the back of the PTI with force to protest.
09:47And then there are these things, when we are sitting in meetings,
09:51that see, Imran Khan was punished for 14 years.
09:54Where did the processions take place?
09:56And now, the power show that the PTI is doing on 8th February,
10:00they are doing it inside the KP.
10:01If they do such a big show on 8th February in Islamabad,
10:04or in Punjab, then we will believe them.
10:07So, the belief there is that the party is not capable at the moment
10:11that it can warm up the streets.
10:13And you can also see,
10:15See, this is their childishness,
10:17they don't even say it,
10:19they think that this is the case.
10:21See, nations make their decisions suddenly.
10:23We don't want this.
10:24They showed shamelessness on 26th November,
10:27they shot people, people's children were martyred.
10:29We are aware of this.
10:31Hundreds of people are injured and people are lost.
10:34We understand and know exactly these circumstances,
10:37but despite this, you will see that this nation will rise.
10:40It is not so easy that a nation is formed
10:43It is not so easy that you shot a nation,
10:46killed people and then everything was fine.
10:48The narrator said that now there is peace here.
10:50This will not happen.
10:51This is a very foolish and stupid kind of thinking.
10:55But unfortunately, this is the kind of thinking.
10:58This is also being said, Mr. Salman.
10:59We will continue our talk.
11:01Sorry, you complete it.
11:03Sorry.
11:05See, we will continue our talk.
11:07People say that there is no one there,
11:10you make a way from this lane,
11:12go and pray to him, sit with him,
11:14have a good chat with him,
11:16make him believe that you are very good for him
11:19and he will give you a chance.
11:21We don't want this politics.
11:23This politics has been going on for the past 70-77 years.
11:26As a result, it is in the hands of the country.
11:29You make an agreement and when you come back through an NRO,
11:33then you will take the country back.
11:34If you are so clear,
11:36then when Mr. Gauhar, your party chairman,
11:39met the army chief in Peshawar for a few minutes,
11:43why was he so excited?
11:45Now see, they are talking,
11:47Mr. Imran Khan from Pani Chairman himself said that he is happy.
11:51Now today, another news is going on,
11:53there was news on Jio that they have met again.
11:56High powered.
11:57Have they met somewhere else?
11:59First tell me this about Mr. Gauhar.
12:01See, two things.
12:02One, he did not express his happiness,
12:04he had refused,
12:06but we believe that if there is a way out without any conflict,
12:11then we take a leap of faith.
12:13On the other hand, we also understand that
12:15you cannot control the country's largest political force
12:19by shooting bullets,
12:20you cannot make the economy better,
12:22there cannot be stability in the country.
12:24Due to the IMF program,
12:25you say that we have gained control temporarily.
12:28This is completely temporary control.
12:29You see the last 14 IMF programs,
12:32when this agreement was signed.
12:33Let me ask you a point blank question.
12:36I will ask you a very direct question that you are talking about.
12:39If today you are offered direct or indirect talks by the military leadership,
12:45will you engage yourself in such talks?
12:49Or will you clearly refuse?
12:53Look, we will engage on the level of principle.
12:55We will definitely say that move out of the way,
12:57follow the rules and regulations.
12:59We will definitely do it to this extent.
13:00This has always been our position
13:03that in the path of this country,
13:05in the path of the constitution,
13:06the power that is present,
13:07until that power is removed from the path of the constitution,
13:11this country cannot develop.
13:13We, the political parties, will try to do this.
13:16It will be right for us to make the standing force
13:21that has defeated this system,
13:23understand that it is not right to do this.
13:25So, if I say that your policy,
13:28now I will say that the policy of the PTI is this,
13:31that if the army talks to us,
13:33we will talk, we will not talk to the government.
13:38I will not say such a final thing,
13:40but we have never said that we will not talk to the army.
13:43We have never said that we will not talk to the political forces.
13:47We are ready to talk to everyone for the success of the country,
13:50for the constitution and for the fundamental rights.
13:52Whoever is in the way of these rights,
13:55is in the way of the success of the country,
13:58we will talk to him.
13:59Then why did you prejudge?
14:01You should have gone if you said that we will talk to everyone.
14:04I should not have gone,
14:06because we were seeing this completely useless.
14:08There were three sessions,
14:11after the third session, they attacked us.
14:15I am telling you again and again,
14:17they tried their best to humiliate us,
14:20to present us as a subordinate party.
14:23Why did they attack Hamid Reza's house?
14:25Can someone tell me the answer to this?
14:27If you can see that there is no other way than trade,
14:32then are we considering this a matter of days,
14:36weeks or months?
14:39No, I will not say anything like that.
14:40Look, I did not say that there is no other way than trade.
14:44What I have said is that all the political forces of this country,
14:47and all the conscious people of the society,
14:52should come together and demand that
14:54the democracy and fundamental rights of this country should be abolished.
14:57If this happens, then there will be no need for any conflict.
15:01I think that if there is consensus in the society on this matter,
15:05if there is consensus,
15:06then no power can stand in our way.
15:08We do not need any conflict.
15:09Okay, tell me one thing,
15:10the problem is that if we have a problem,
15:13if there is a problem with the political party,
15:14everything goes to the courts.
15:17Our last recourse is with the courts.
15:19Now there is a strange drama going on there.
15:21Now it will not happen.
15:24No, I have a question.
15:25Now it will not happen.
15:26One bench has called the Chief Justice guilty of contempt of court.
15:30They have said that it is a guilty verdict.
15:32Now this one bench of the Supreme Court
15:34is calling the Chief Justice and another judge guilty of contempt.
15:38Okay, a court is formed here.
15:41So Justice Mehnaz Sahib,
15:42who has a brother who is also a lawyer against Imran Khan,
15:46the cases go to his court.
15:48That is why, Mr. Malik,
15:50that is why I am saying that we should not look at the courts.
15:55We should not expect anything from the courts.
15:58We should rely on ourselves.
16:00We should rely on our voice, on our resolve.
16:03This does not mean that street agitation is the only way.
16:06If the whole nation raises its voice with this resolve,
16:10and there are many ways to raise your voice,
16:12it is not necessary to break it.
16:14We do not have to break it at all.
16:16We have to convince our moral existence
16:19as a nation.
16:20If we can do this,
16:22then you will see that this country will change.
16:24But this does not happen because there are many people
16:27who want to sit on the lap,
16:28who need support,
16:29who want to get news from the big house.
16:33They are in every field,
16:35whether it is law, or journalism,
16:36there are people everywhere who want the support of the big house.
16:39If this happens, then you will see that the fate of this country will change.
16:43Okay, there was a negotiated settlement,
16:46but that has gone out.
16:47Now you are trying to bring Imran Khan and other leaders out.
16:51You can see that the Supreme Court is getting stacked.
16:54You yourself said that the new judges will come.
16:58There is already a bench inside, hand-picked and everything.
17:04It is so blatant in the High Court,
17:06that the judge whose brother is clearly a conflict of interest,
17:09that he has a case, he is listening to those things.
17:12So this is a very clear situation.
17:14So tell me, the leaders who say that Imran Khan will come out in March,
17:19will celebrate Eid at home,
17:21where is this optimism coming from?
17:24Is it the optimism of Trump's call?
17:26If that call does not come,
17:27then the way the court is set up,
17:29do you see Imran Khan coming out in the next six months?
17:34Like seriously speaking?
17:36Yes, of course, he comes.
17:37We think that the reality will come out.
17:43The rate at which our economy is destroyed,
17:46you are given these vague figures,
17:49inflation has decreased,
17:51there is a surplus in the current account.
17:52You have strangled the economy.
17:55When you deliberately take an economy towards depression,
17:59you stop it,
18:00then inflation also decreases.
18:02Why will the establishment be forced to talk to you?
18:05Tell me one thing,
18:06why will the establishment be forced to change its opinion?
18:09They will see that people like Malik are standing up against them.
18:15People like Malik are saying,
18:17who did not need to spend their lives in closed rooms in front of the camera,
18:21they are saying that now our life,
18:23our existence is dependent on raising our voices.
18:26When such people start raising their voices,
18:29then the society changes.
18:30The economy will not progress at all
18:32until the political reality of this country is acknowledged.
18:36Therefore, you will see that things are going in such a direction
18:40that either there will be total destruction or there will be prosperity.
18:43We think that we will move towards prosperity.
18:46The whole nation will decide that we will move towards prosperity
18:48and we will end the atmosphere of this graveyard.
18:52I really hope for this country to say that your optimism is not misplaced,
18:55otherwise the laws that are being made and the behavior of the courts...
18:58And I hope, Malik, that you will stand with us.
19:01Sir, we will all stand with you.
19:02What is the use of this?
19:03This is not about parties or personalities.
19:04Then you will see that the country will change.
19:06This is a matter of the country.
19:07What is happening right now is very alarming.
19:09When you will stand, everything will change.
19:12Look, don't worry about what their intentions are.
19:14This is the decision of a big family.
19:16There is a red line.
19:17There are other types of people who run their lives on such tricks.
19:21The decisions of fate, the decisions of history, they happen.
19:25You remain stable with the law, with the law, with the order, with decency,
19:30and you will see that this country will change.
19:32Salman Akim Raja, thank you very much.
19:34We will end your segment on this positive note.
19:35We will take a break.
19:36After the break, we will talk about these black laws.
19:40And the same thing, the silence of the graveyard.
19:42And an excuse is being made to stop the nonsense and nonsense that is going on on social media.
19:48There are ways to stop it.
19:50It should be stopped.
19:51But stopping lies does not mean that you do not even allow people to speak the truth.
19:56Stop the freedom of thought.
19:58Let's talk about how all this is happening after the break.
20:00Welcome back to the show.
20:06We will talk about how these black laws have been passed.
20:08We do not have time to tell you the details of the bill.
20:12The nation is being told that there is a lot of nonsense, nonsense, lies,
20:15and it is necessary to put a stop to it on social media.
20:19All the things are absolutely right.
20:20But there are laws, there are ways.
20:23When these laws have been made as an excuse,
20:26Under these laws, there are so many broad definitions that you can criticize anyone you want.
20:32It has been criminalized.
20:33There are penalties in the world.
20:36If you do not pay the fine, then you are imprisoned for a day.
20:41And if people misuse their authority to criticize you,
20:45there are no consequences for them.
20:51There are no appeals.
20:52You can go straight to the Supreme Court.
20:56Where will you go in the Supreme Court?
20:57Where your hand-picked bench is sitting.
21:00It is not that you will go to a normal court.
21:02You will go to that bench.
21:04Obviously, freedom of speech will be a matter of law.
21:06I can tell you a lot of things in this regard.
21:09But this is for the silence of a completely silent graveyard.
21:13Today, in the whole country,
21:15there were visitors everywhere,
21:16in a very large number.
21:18And in Islamabad, such an environment had become that
21:20the banging was also starting,
21:22and the arrests were also going to start.
21:24Mr. Afzal Wajid is also the President of PFUJ.
21:29He was also saved from being arrested.
21:32He was running around Mazar-e-Abbas in Karachi.
21:35Now it will be the turn of both, God willing,
21:37what they have done today.
21:39But on a serious note,
21:41now the matter is that the bills that they have sent immediately,
21:45let alone the Digital Nation Bill,
21:47talk about it with the President.
21:50We can only hope that Mr. Zardari,
21:51if the People's Party is even a little bit honest in this statement,
21:56that no, no, no, we want to talk and make it happen,
21:59then the President should not sign it.
22:02They didn't even do it on the Madrasa Bill.
22:05But there is a problem.
22:07They were requested not to do it on the Madrasa Bill.
22:10Now this bill has come from the Interior.
22:13You know where the Interior Minister has come from.
22:16So will they be able to stop it on this bill?
22:19Sir, the statements that you have made are being made by the government.
22:24During this bill, we have told the government
22:29that neither are we against the rules and regulations,
22:32nor are we against the mother-father freedom.
22:35We are the biggest victims and biggest opponents of fake news.
22:40So we want to have a meaningful consultation.
22:43If your intention is right...
22:44We were also in the meetings.
22:45We had gone to these meetings together.
22:47Okay.
22:48But if the intention was right and there was no superstition,
22:53then people all over the world are looking for stakeholders
22:57that a person should come and we should talk to him.
22:59Here, the organization of five stakeholders was running after the government
23:04that we want that there should be rules and regulations in Pakistan.
23:09We are against mother-father freedom.
23:10They have lied everywhere.
23:12They said yes, we will talk, we are doing it now.
23:15How many times have we sent them the written statements?
23:19I would like to talk about what they are telling the public.
23:23Secondly, there is Abbal in Asif Ali Zardari's court.
23:28We request him to invite senior journalists including our Joint Action Committee.
23:36We will tell them about the doubts that are associated with the Pakistan law.
23:43We will tell them about the doubts that are associated with human rights and freedom of the press.
23:48How can you blame those people who are doing nonsense?
23:53Look, you want to blame them, I want to blame them,
23:56but there is no one among us who is their supporter.
23:58Okay.
23:59But if Mr. Zardari raises the same objections and sends this bill back to the parliament,
24:06Mr. Mian Nawazshi intervenes,
24:08he should explain to his party and his government that you are getting a second chance.
24:13You should review it and sit with senior journalists.
24:17Will you praise the fake news or will a sub-inspector do it?
24:22But tell me one thing, what they are saying,
24:26this would have happened if this bill was an initiative of the government.
24:30I don't think the government made it, I think the government just processed it.
24:35In the past, when such bills used to come, the Ministry of Information used to draft them.
24:42This time, it came from the interior.
24:44So, many things are not being adopted.
24:46So, Mr. Zardari, first tell me, you are sitting in Karachi,
24:50you have a lot of interest there.
24:52Will Mr. Zardari not do it?
24:55Will he send it back?
24:56Will there be a chance?
24:57After that, we will discuss the future strategy.
25:02Sir, just this evening, in a reception,
25:08I met a very important minister of the Sindh government.
25:11And we talked to him, as Mr. Bhatt was saying,
25:15that Mr. Zardari should meet the Joint Action Committee.
25:19No, call the Joint Action Committee, talk to them,
25:23listen to what they have to say and see how much weight they have in their words.
25:27Now, this court and court rules, the minister said that
25:30yes, I will try to get this message,
25:33provided that they don't sign it tonight.
25:37So, now, the way it is, it seems that maybe they will sign it,
25:42but the protest that took place today,
25:45it is possible that the pressure of that protest has been felt somewhere.
25:50If these signatures had not been there,
25:52then I think that today's protest would have been a great success.
25:57And if these signatures are made,
25:59then we will continue to fight,
26:01we will continue to fight,
26:03but the people who come and stand with us tomorrow,
26:05they will be exposed.
26:07Because signing means that the party,
26:10because they are not only the president of the country,
26:14they are also the president of the Pakistan People's Party Parliamentarian.
26:18He is also the co-chairman of the Pakistan People's Party Parliamentary.
26:24So, if they sign,
26:26then it means that the concern of the people's party is involved in this.
26:30So, this will be their test today,
26:33whether they sign or not.
26:35Tell me one thing, I am looking at it from another angle.
26:38I feel that if something was going towards improvement
26:42between the establishment and the PTI,
26:45if there was a little possibility,
26:48then this law would not have passed at this time,
26:51within 15 minutes.
26:53They have pushed it through everywhere.
26:58This means that in the coming days,
27:00there will be more strictness,
27:02there will be more restrictions.
27:04This is why a pre-emptive environment has been created
27:06so that the media cannot talk.
27:08Sir, you will remember,
27:10and Mr. Bhatt will also remember.
27:12When Maryam Aurangzeb was the Information Minister,
27:15a bill was being prepared night and day.
27:18And they didn't even know about it.
27:21When they were informed
27:23that this bill is going to be presented the next day,
27:26then after that,
27:28they did the right thing
27:31that they also changed the Information Officer.
27:34Exactly the same kind of legalization was going to be done in Sindh.
27:38In which I called Nasir Shah at that time,
27:41I said, are you seeing what is coming?
27:45So, it was stopped.
27:47At least in Sindh it happened that it was stopped.
27:49And then a committee was formed,
27:51which is now focusing on it.
27:53So, somewhere a thought is being found,
27:55how to impose restrictions on thinking.
27:57Mr. Bhatt, tell me this.
27:59But you will remember,
28:01the previous government of the People's Party,
28:04at that time,
28:06Shiri Rehman had resigned from the ministry
28:08as the Information Minister.
28:10That a bill was being brought,
28:12on which I could not sign.
28:15So, today,
28:17we will also tell Mr. Shiri Rehman,
28:19that at that time we appreciated him a lot,
28:21and you had stood up.
28:23So, today in the party...
28:25Mr. Bhatt, you tell me.
28:27We have two options.
28:29One option is that we will obviously exercise it,
28:31that we will challenge it in the courts.
28:33Do you have any hope from the courts?
28:35The way the courts have now become a new model,
28:37the judges do not stand with each other,
28:39who will stand with us?
28:41So, I have no hope.
28:43I do not think that we will get any relief from the judiciary.
28:45The executive is under the establishment.
28:47So, we also know,
28:49in whose interest the bill is,
28:51and in whose interest it is not.
28:53So, as journalists,
28:55what option do we have?
28:57What will we do?
28:59Look, I think that in the courts,
29:01there is no such thing,
29:03that we do not have an argument.
29:05When the advisory team will stand there,
29:07five stakeholders will stand together,
29:09then...
29:11It depends on the judge.
29:13You can take the best case,
29:15or you can see the judges,
29:17and then you will know,
29:19where the decision of the case will be.
29:21Unfortunately, I am saying this on air,
29:23but this is the reality.
29:25Think about it,
29:27if the argument is good,
29:29and the judge is neutral.
29:31If we...
29:33Look,
29:35the first stage will be
29:37that we will challenge it in the High Court.
29:39Now, we have to see,
29:41in the Joint Action Committee,
29:43the discussion that will take place,
29:45whether we have to challenge it
29:47in five High Courts,
29:49or all five of us
29:51have to challenge it in one High Court.
29:53So, that's why,
29:55it's okay,
29:57there are difficulties here, but...
29:59So, if we do it in five,
30:01five judges can handle it,
30:03instead of one.
30:05So, these are the things.
30:07On footpath,
30:09we started the
30:11Press Freedom Movement.
30:13It was not a protest,
30:15it was the beginning of
30:17the Press Freedom Movement
30:19which started against General Zia-ul-Haq,
30:21which started against General Praveen Musharraf.
30:23Now, this is the third time
30:25that we are...
30:27Let's see it from here,
30:29the taste of pudding is in the food.
30:31There was such a big protest,
30:33in the whole country.
30:35Did the government contact you?
30:37Yes.
30:39What did they say?
30:41That we want to come to you.
30:43I said, if you have passed the bill...
30:45No, you can bring an amendment,
30:47if you sit with us,
30:49you can bring an amendment.
30:51They are talking about the amendment,
30:53Shirdi Rehman is also doing it,
30:55the government is also doing it,
30:57that you have brought an amendment,
30:59we will amend it.
31:01But right now,
31:03if the President
31:05wisely plays his role in this,
31:07as he always does during the crisis,
31:11because there is no better manager
31:13than him,
31:15if he wants to manage
31:17this whole matter,
31:19then he has the best opportunity
31:21to call us,
31:23we will tell him that
31:25these are genuine objections,
31:27send them.
31:29Mian Nawaz Sharif will tell his Prime Minister
31:31that the things that you are
31:33telling the public,
31:35that we want to stop fake news,
31:37we will stop it.
31:39This is a very good thing,
31:41a positive development,
31:43if the government has contacted.
31:45But these government people
31:47have been sitting with us
31:49in many meetings,
31:51they have been taking
31:53suggestions from us.
31:55Yesterday also,
31:57they had a delegation,
31:59they had also given
32:01some suggestions,
32:03but then this bill came.
32:05No, I will tell you,
32:07the government contacted us
32:09on two issues.
32:11The day they had to pass
32:13the National Assembly,
32:15at 11 or 12,
32:17they told us to come
32:19for the meeting at 2.
32:21We discussed in the Joint Action
32:23Committee,
32:25everyone was connected,
32:27they will put our thumbprint
32:29and say that we have
32:31done the consultation.
32:33So you refuse them.
32:35I said why should I refuse,
32:37I will go and tell them that
32:39we do not want to sit,
32:41if you take this process
32:43of today's National Assembly
32:45one week ahead,
32:47then we will pass it.
32:49I am coming, I am coming.
32:51The one who had the Senate
32:53meeting,
32:55we agreed to present it,
32:57but we were told at 11 or 12
32:59that today we will not pass it,
33:01today we will hand it over
33:03to the Standing Committee.
33:05Fake news, they gave you fake news,
33:07for which this bill came.
33:09No, no, they handed it over
33:11to the Standing Committee,
33:13but we told the Joint Action
33:15Committee that there are
33:1758 clauses in this which you
33:19have touched.
33:21We will consult with our
33:23colleagues and we will come
33:25to you in a week's time.
33:27Then there will be a meaningful
33:29consultation, but they did not do it.
33:31Yes, Mr. Mazhar.
33:33Look, the PFUJ, Joint Action
33:35Committee, Zahir,
33:37the policy making body,
33:39whatever they do,
33:41in my personal opinion,
33:43this law is not
33:45taken back.
33:47Look, if we come
33:49in the trap of this amendment,
33:51then remember that you
33:53will be a loser.
33:55Because when the Press and Publication
33:57Ordinance was implemented,
33:59we consistently demanded for 23 years
34:01that the Press and Publication
34:03Ordinance be abolished.
34:05Because we could see
34:07why that Press and Publication
34:09Ordinance was implemented.
34:11This PECA,
34:13this is not an amendment,
34:15if you want to improve anything,
34:17withdraw this law, sit down
34:19and discuss a draft
34:21for proper legislation.
34:23They will take out 4 things
34:25and do 1-2-3 small things
34:27in such a way
34:29that after that
34:31they will keep you on board.
34:33Mazhar, when that time comes,
34:35we will discuss it.
34:37We don't increase it.
34:39We have fought the whole fight on the streets.
34:41So I don't think we should go into those things.
34:43Look, this is the problem.
34:45Look, you do it.
34:47PFUJ is ready.
34:49Joint Action Committee is ready.
34:51Remember the past.
34:53Amendments didn't work in the past.
34:55In 1986,
34:57you had to abolish
34:59the Press and Publication Ordinance.
35:01I am telling you again
35:03to withdraw PECA 2016.
35:05This is what we did.
35:07But the problem is that
35:09everyone has contributed.
35:11PECA, PMLN,
35:13then Khan's government,
35:15they tried to do a lot of things.
35:17The authority was becoming very scary.
35:19Then Presidential Accordinance came
35:21in 2022.
35:23They found things in that too.
35:25Then the Nawaz Sharif government
35:27came and did all the work.
35:29Interestingly,
35:31the interior minister,
35:33the chairman of the Standing Committee
35:35was from PTA.
35:37Now the issue is
35:39that I want to ask you
35:41that in such a hurry,
35:43if the way this law has been passed
35:45and the way it has been done
35:47in a hurry,
35:49despite everyone's objections,
35:51there must be a reason for it.
35:53The reason is not so small
35:55that we will say
35:57and they will back off
35:59and we will repeal it.
36:01Are we going towards
36:03a standoff
36:05where the entire media
36:07will be on one side
36:09and the government on the other?
36:11Is there a reason?
36:13Look sir,
36:15I don't know
36:17what the government
36:19has on the government.
36:21Because the way the law was brought
36:23and brought through the interior ministry,
36:25tell me what is the position
36:27of the Ministry of Information
36:29that it has been brought through
36:31the Ministry of Interior.
36:33All these things,
36:35remember this law
36:37has been brought to spread fake news.
36:39And this is why
36:41the dissenting voice is being killed.
36:43The dissenting voice is being
36:45destroyed.
36:47Because the fake news
36:49that the government will spread
36:51will be all fake news.
36:53Remember this
36:55that fake news
36:57spreads when
36:59the real news is banned.
37:01The news on which
37:03the news is banned,
37:05is the real news.
37:07Because the news
37:09makes people worried.
37:11That's why the laws
37:13are made.
37:15When the laws are banned,
37:17when you can't speak,
37:19when the boss can't speak,
37:21what will spread after that?
37:23Only what the government
37:25will spread.
37:27Let's take a break here.
37:29After the break,
37:31let's talk about
37:33whether I agree with the law.
37:35Let's talk about
37:37how to spread fake news.
37:39Let's talk about this after the break.
37:47Welcome back.
37:49Sir, I have seen that you
37:51are always optimistic.
37:53The government is
37:55being killed.
37:57On 25th November,
37:59the government said
38:01that they have broken their back.
38:03On 26th November,
38:05the lawyers threatened
38:07that they will do this and that.
38:09But they didn't do anything.
38:11I am afraid that
38:13even the journalists
38:15are talking a lot.
38:17Will they come one day
38:19and remove the black belt?
38:21I am saying this
38:23because the government
38:25which has the habit
38:27of using force
38:29and can destroy a political party,
38:31we are in many groups
38:33in different cities.
38:35We are a trade body.
38:37We are not an activist.
38:39Sir, it is easy to destroy
38:41a political party.
38:43Zia-ul-Haq also thought
38:45that he had destroyed it.
38:47But you were a part
38:49of the struggle
38:51run by the PFJ.
38:53We were together
38:55in the movement
38:57against Parvez Mishra.
38:59Both the mainstream political parties
39:01were outside the country.
39:03We ran the movement.
39:05The government doesn't know
39:07that you can't fight
39:09against a civil society.
39:11It is easy to fight
39:13against a political party.
39:15We ran the movement
39:17and now we have
39:19named it
39:21the Press Freedom Movement.
39:23Within this week,
39:25Vukla,
39:27Human Rights Activists,
39:29Civil Society,
39:31and the Trade Union
39:33will meet and
39:35we will on-board them.
39:37We have been protesting
39:39on a daily basis.
39:41We are planning
39:43for the next program.
39:45If the government still doesn't
39:47change, then we will call
39:49all the political parties
39:51and put our flag in front of them.
39:53The PFJ Press Freedom Movement
39:55is a movement
39:57that will
39:59change the world.
40:01It is a movement
40:03that will
40:05change the world.
40:07It is a movement
40:09that will
40:11change the world.
40:13It is a movement
40:15that will
40:17change the world.
40:19It is a movement
40:21that will
40:23change the world.
40:47Your closing comment?
40:53We were not allowed to celebrate Eid
40:55Yes, we celebrated Eid on our own
40:57We celebrated Eid on our own
40:59And the three days of Eid
41:01Ahmed Faraz came
41:03Minhaj Barna came
41:05Many other people came
41:07So basically
41:09The government needs to understand
41:11Nawaz Sharif knows
41:13What kind of movement we had against Musharraf
41:15People's Party knows
41:17And People's Party was a part of it
41:19When we had a movement against Zia-ul-Haq
41:21The people of Ayub Khan
41:23The old people will remember
41:25That we had a movement against Ayub Khan
41:27You are a civilian
41:29If we can have a movement against a martial law
41:31Then why can't we have a movement against a civilian martial law?
41:33You have to save this law
41:35Thank you very much
41:37Let me finish
41:39If we can have a movement against a martial law
41:41And successfully
41:43You tell us
41:45We are all
41:47If we are against a civilian martial law
41:49We are telling the government
41:51You are in the government today
41:53Tomorrow you will be in the opposition
41:55The laws that you are making
41:57We are suffering today
41:59If they are safe
42:01You will not be safe
42:03As far as the journalist community is concerned
42:05We will not back down
42:07We will not be deaf
42:09We will not hand over this country to the deaf
42:11Nor will we let the graveyard be silent
42:13They can arrest us
42:15They can punish us
42:17We are ready
42:19Nusrat Javed told me
42:21If they arrest us
42:23We will not apply for bail
42:25We are also telling you
42:27We will not apply for bail
42:29Let's see
42:31You can say this about yourself
42:33It is a business
42:35But we are very sincere about our business
42:37Goodbye