In this conversation, Mason Duchatschek speaks with Christian Espinosa, author of the book The In-Between: Life in the Micro. Christian is a veteran, CEO and cybersecurity expert. And, they talk about his transformative journey following a near-death experience.
They discuss the importance of awareness, presence, and the small moments that shape leadership. Christian shares insights on shifting identity, actionable awareness, and the significance of informed intentions in both personal and professional contexts. The conversation emphasizes the value of connecting with others and being present in the moment, ultimately leading to a more fulfilling life.
Takeaways
-Christian's near-death experience reshaped his perspective on life and leadership.
-The importance of being present in the moment and valuing small gestures.
-Awareness is crucial, but it must lead to actionable change.
-Shifting from a 'me against the world' mentality to 'me with the world' fosters better relationships.
-Identity can either serve or hinder personal growth and leadership effectiveness.
-Condor vision helps gain perspective on life and decisions.
-Actionable awareness translates insights into meaningful actions.
-Informed intentions guide interactions and experiences positively.
-Flexibility in approach can lead to better outcomes in various situations.
- Health, wealth, and relationships are interconnected and impact overall well-being.
Chapters
00:00 The Journey of Transformation
04:52 Moments of Presence and Awareness
09:53 Shifting Identity and Leadership
15:14 The Power of Intentions
20:00 Actionable Awareness in Leadership
25:10 Finding Connection in Everyday Life
Learn More with Workforce Alchemy
If you're looking for proven strategies, tools, and secrets to improve leadership, branding, and resilience in business, take the Workforce Alchemy Challenge for free.
👉 Apply here: https://www.WorkforceAlchemy.com
About Our Company
Alchemy was the medieval forerunner of chemistry, based on the supposed transformation of matter. It was concerned with attempts to convert base metals (like lead) into gold. WORKFORCE ALCHEMY is kind of like that, except with people and businesses.
We provide various skill, attitude, and personality-based psychometric assessment tools and training to help employers with employee selection, engagement & retention.
Follow Us:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/Workforce-Alchemy/100089012713935/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/workforcealchemy/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WorkforceAlchemist
Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/WorkforceAlchemy
#Leadership #BusinessTips #LeadershipDevelopment #LeadershipTips #LeadershipSkills #Leaders #BusinessLeaders #CEOmindset #CEO #BusinessOwnership #Entrepreneurship
They discuss the importance of awareness, presence, and the small moments that shape leadership. Christian shares insights on shifting identity, actionable awareness, and the significance of informed intentions in both personal and professional contexts. The conversation emphasizes the value of connecting with others and being present in the moment, ultimately leading to a more fulfilling life.
Takeaways
-Christian's near-death experience reshaped his perspective on life and leadership.
-The importance of being present in the moment and valuing small gestures.
-Awareness is crucial, but it must lead to actionable change.
-Shifting from a 'me against the world' mentality to 'me with the world' fosters better relationships.
-Identity can either serve or hinder personal growth and leadership effectiveness.
-Condor vision helps gain perspective on life and decisions.
-Actionable awareness translates insights into meaningful actions.
-Informed intentions guide interactions and experiences positively.
-Flexibility in approach can lead to better outcomes in various situations.
- Health, wealth, and relationships are interconnected and impact overall well-being.
Chapters
00:00 The Journey of Transformation
04:52 Moments of Presence and Awareness
09:53 Shifting Identity and Leadership
15:14 The Power of Intentions
20:00 Actionable Awareness in Leadership
25:10 Finding Connection in Everyday Life
Learn More with Workforce Alchemy
If you're looking for proven strategies, tools, and secrets to improve leadership, branding, and resilience in business, take the Workforce Alchemy Challenge for free.
👉 Apply here: https://www.WorkforceAlchemy.com
About Our Company
Alchemy was the medieval forerunner of chemistry, based on the supposed transformation of matter. It was concerned with attempts to convert base metals (like lead) into gold. WORKFORCE ALCHEMY is kind of like that, except with people and businesses.
We provide various skill, attitude, and personality-based psychometric assessment tools and training to help employers with employee selection, engagement & retention.
Follow Us:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/Workforce-Alchemy/100089012713935/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/workforcealchemy/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WorkforceAlchemist
Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/WorkforceAlchemy
#Leadership #BusinessTips #LeadershipDevelopment #LeadershipTips #LeadershipSkills #Leaders #BusinessLeaders #CEOmindset #CEO #BusinessOwnership #Entrepreneurship
Category
🛠️
LifestyleTranscript
00:00Today's conversation goes deep with someone who's lived the climb, the crash, and the
00:04comeback.
00:05Christian Espinosa is a veteran entrepreneur, cybersecurity expert, and the author of the
00:10book, The In-Between, Life in the Micro.
00:12But this isn't your typical leadership book.
00:16It's a raw, honest reflection born out of a near-death moment that forced Christian to
00:21reevaluate everything, his identity, his values, and the way he was moving through life.
00:27In this episode, we explore how hitting rock bottom became the turning point for Christian's
00:32most important transformation, personally and professionally.
00:35He shares some powerful insights on actionable awareness, resetting identity, leading with
00:40informed intention, and aligning leadership with authenticity and presence.
00:45Most importantly, he shows us how to value the moments in between, the ones we usually
00:49overlook, and how those moments are where real leadership is forged.
00:53If you've ever felt stuck, misaligned, or like you're chasing the next big thing without
00:58appreciating the now, this episode's a must-listen.
01:01So Christian, I'm so happy that you're here.
01:04Thanks for taking the time.
01:05Yeah, thank you so much, Mason.
01:06I appreciate you having me on.
01:07I actually have read your book.
01:09I finished it about six or seven hours ago, so all of this stuff is fresh in my mind.
01:14I was able to relate to a lot of it, and I can't wait to get the scoop from the source.
01:20So I think the people listening and watching are really going to enjoy this.
01:23So in your book, you talk about a pivotal moment, a car crash that basically cracked
01:29your perspective wide open.
01:31Can you tell us about that experience and what it taught you about leadership and presence?
01:35I had just flown back from, I think, Houston to St. Louis with my girlfriend at the time,
01:42and she's now my wife.
01:42And we were going to a restaurant in Fairview Heights, Illinois, and we were at an intersection,
01:49and there was a blue car and a black truck, and the blue car ran the intersection, ran
01:57the light, and the black truck ran into it.
01:59So it was a pretty severe high-speed accident in the middle of the intersection, and we were
02:02right behind the black truck.
02:04So I was able to, like, back up my vehicle a little bit, because the black truck got bounced
02:08backwards towards my car and hit my car a little bit.
02:12After things calmed down, Melissa, my wife, now she's a nurse, I'm kind of calm in these
02:17scenarios.
02:18We got out to immediately help, and the woman got out of the car.
02:22She had, like, glass, like, falling off of her, and it looked like she had a broken arm,
02:26and she was limping, and she didn't look in very good shape, and Melissa caught her before
02:30she, like, collapsed to the ground, and I checked on the guy in the car, or in the truck, and
02:35it was interesting because other than one other person, we were the only two people, and
02:40this is a very busy intersection, that got out of our car to help.
02:43Everyone else just sat in their car, like, filming with their cell phone, frustrated.
02:48Nobody else got to help.
02:49One woman came up behind me and asked her to call 911.
02:53But what was interesting is I was thinking about all these ideas from my book, and I
02:59had a lot of things kind of, like, written out, but this accident kind of solidified it
03:04for me because the woman that was badly injured in the car that Melissa helped to the ground,
03:10she lost her cell phone, and all she cared about was talking to her husband.
03:13Like, nothing else mattered in the world besides telling her husband she was okay.
03:16So I got her number and called her number from my phone and relayed to her husband that
03:22she was okay, and then let her talk to her husband.
03:25And I think what mattered, like, in that moment for me is just that when all these things
03:35happen in life, like, all that woman cared about was talking to her husband and saying
03:38she was okay.
03:39It's like her plans for the day, plans for the future, whatever happened in the past,
03:44none of it mattered.
03:44And it just made me realize, like, I've been missing a lot of these moments in my life,
03:49and this is what I should write the book about.
03:50Because I tend to get hyper-focused on big things and, like, overlook these things, like
03:55that accident or, like, it seems like a small moment, but it's a big moment, actually.
04:01And, yeah, that just, like, made the universe feel like, I felt like the universe is telling
04:04me this is what I need to write the book about.
04:06And it was also a little eye-opening that and disheartening that nobody else got out of
04:11their car to help in a major intersection.
04:13You know, and you wrote about this in the book, how people get so caught up in their own
04:17little world and what they think is important, whether it's a business meeting or whether
04:22it's a dance recital or a dinner with their spouse.
04:25And they're thinking about all of these things, and they're missing everything that's going
04:29on around them.
04:30You talked about the awareness of being attentive to what's going on and noticing these little
04:34things that oftentimes people think of as distractions or delays or denials.
04:39And one of the things that I took away from your book was that there's presence.
04:44It's not, like, it's a presence, like, being somewhere, but, well, I guess it kind of is,
04:47but presence, like, is a gift.
04:49That a lot of those moments are a gift.
04:50Like, I remember you were talking about, could you tell them a little bit about your visit
04:55to Schnucks?
04:56Yeah.
04:57I had just gotten divorced just, like, in the early 90s.
05:00And I was going through a rough time.
05:03I was really struggling with the divorce.
05:05And I went to the grocery store.
05:08It's called Schnucks in the St. Louis area.
05:11It's a grocery store.
05:13And it was, like, my local grocery store in Fairview Heights, Illinois, which is a suburb
05:16of St. Louis, basically.
05:18And I was checking out as normal.
05:21And I guess the woman that was checking me out realized that I was in a bad state, just
05:27the way I looked and the way I was carrying myself and my demeanor.
05:29And she actually stopped scanning the groceries and took a second, looked me directly in the
05:33eye, and asked me if I was okay.
05:35And that simple, like, I guess, question with sincerity, like, changed my life because I
05:42really wasn't okay.
05:43But the fact that she asked and noticed and cared enough to even, like, make that small
05:47gesture meant a lot to me.
05:49And it made me feel a lot better.
05:51Like, you know, I'm not alone in the world.
05:53Even this person I see, like, you know, once every two weeks at scanning groceries actually
05:58cares enough to stop what she's doing and ask me.
06:00So, yeah, it really made me realize that the people you think might be a stranger may actually
06:05care about you.
06:06And, yeah, that shifted my perspective a lot.
06:08I still think about that.
06:09That was, you know, 30-plus years ago, I think, at this point.
06:12You know what?
06:13The thing that I find fascinating about that, the reason it stuck out to me when I read
06:17your book was that you learned a lesson from that.
06:19I learned a lesson from it, and I didn't have to experience it.
06:22But you know how someone taking the time to pay attention to a little thing, and they
06:27noticed, and they reached out to you, and they interacted with you, and how that made
06:31you feel.
06:32And I can't help but to think that that isn't a lesson that can't be helpful to anybody
06:36that interacts with other people, whether it's at work or whether it's, because you
06:39know what it felt like.
06:41And because that person was able to make you feel better, I'm sure it makes it, you walk
06:45around in a constant state of awareness of opportunities that you see in other people
06:49when something doesn't seem right, where you can be the answer to their prayers and give
06:54them the encouragement or the support that they need, because you're actually paying
06:57attention to something other than the macro world of all of these goals and things that
07:02you otherwise would be paying attention to.
07:04I really found that story relevant to anybody.
07:11And you think about how many people go to work every day, and, oh, we've got to hit these
07:15goals.
07:15What are our numbers?
07:16Did you make the calls?
07:17And they're really not listening to anything other than, what do we got to get done right
07:21now?
07:22What's next?
07:22What's next?
07:23What's next?
07:23What's next?
07:24Move on, move on, move on.
07:25We've got to keep rolling.
07:26We're talking about real human beings, people.
07:28And when you have experienced what you experienced, if you're managing a company or running a business
07:33and you walk in and you don't notice that something is wrong with somebody, that's a missed
07:38opportunity.
07:39And they know that you don't notice.
07:42And it's in the full disclosure for the people who are listening.
07:45I met Christian, and we met one time.
07:48And it was under interesting circumstances.
07:50We were just outside of Tulsa, Oklahoma, doing an Ironman triathlon, which, for those
07:55of you who don't know, is a 2.4-mile swim, 112-mile bike ride, and then a marathon.
08:00And it was raining, and we were probably, I don't know, probably around 80 miles into
08:04the bike course, I guess.
08:05And I'm rolling through, and I see this guy over on the side, basically on a gravel driveway,
08:12leaning up against the fence.
08:14And he didn't look too happy.
08:15And he wasn't pedaling.
08:17And I just hit my brakes.
08:20And I said, hey, man, are you all right?
08:21Is there anything you need?
08:23And Chris, what'd you tell me?
08:25I said, if you have a spare tube, I could use it.
08:27That's exactly right.
08:29Well, the thing is, like, and the thing was that I had a special, because both of us have
08:33race wheels, which require a special long stem, and not everyone has those.
08:37But I happen to have some of those.
08:38So he had been waiting a little while.
08:40Out of curiosity, how long had you been waiting before someone came by, before I came by?
08:43Probably 30.
08:44So how many people passed you in 30 minutes on the bike?
08:47Probably 200.
08:49200.
08:50So maybe that explained why you didn't look so happy.
08:55But you've trained for countless hours.
08:58You spent tons of money to get to others.
08:59And you were watching your race tank.
09:01And you're helpless.
09:03Well, I was able to relate to your book.
09:05And I'm better at it sometimes than others.
09:07This is why I thought your book was so valuable, because it forced me to really think about
09:13making conscientious choices to be much more attentive in the micro versus the macro.
09:19And when people are talking about the macro, it's the big goal.
09:26If I was worried about the macro, I would have been, oh, I'm going for a personal record.
09:30I've got to complete this race as fast as I can.
09:33But to me, I guess 30 minutes of other hundreds of people passing, that's the mindset that
09:39they had.
09:39Well, a lot of people made the gesture like, do you need anything?
09:43But they just kept going.
09:44Like by the time I answered, it's already like a couple hundred feet down the road.
09:48Yeah.
09:48So they could feel good like they asked, but they didn't actually, they had no intention
09:52of stopping.
09:53But to me, I know how much training and effort it takes to get to the starting line.
09:59And I know that there are time cutoffs.
10:01If you don't make the swim by a certain time, you don't get to finish the race.
10:04If you don't finish the bike by a certain time, you don't get to finish the race.
10:07If you don't finish the run by a certain time, you're not a finisher.
10:10So the clock's ticking.
10:11I knew this.
10:11But to me, I did notice you helping someone save a race was way more important to me,
10:19knowing what you and any other competitor put out to be there than saving a few minutes
10:25on my time that no one cares about anyway.
10:28And it's, it's, and I make a conscientious effort to look for the micro, not as much as
10:33I should, which is why your book was a great reminder to me.
10:36And it was meaningful.
10:37I loved your book.
10:38What people also don't know is you're super achievement oriented and you're way too humble
10:42to say this.
10:43So I will say this about it.
10:44Christian's done 24, 26 Ironman, something like that.
10:4824.
10:4924.
10:4924.
10:50Okay.
10:51That's a lot.
10:52And that's a, that is a lifestyle, not an activity.
10:54You don't do 24 Ironmans and say, oh, I'm going to get in shape and do an Ironman one
10:57year.
10:58You've been doing that consistency where that's, that's discipline.
11:00That's focus.
11:01That's goals.
11:02Determination over many years.
11:06You know, he's very achievement oriented guy, very successful in what he's done.
11:10But talk a little bit about how your me against the world mentality and I will do whatever
11:17it takes to get my goal served you and how it may have held you back in different contexts.
11:24Because that was a double-edged sword.
11:27Could you expound on that a little?
11:28Well, I grew up in a very chaotic environment, very poor with a drug, drug addicted mother
11:33in Arkansas.
11:34So I didn't have anybody I could depend on.
11:37So I developed early on this attitude that I'll show everybody that I'm better, smarter,
11:44stronger, and I don't need anybody's help.
11:46So that was where the me against the world attitude came from.
11:49There's a means of surviving my childhood and getting out of my environment.
11:53And I held onto that belief for a long time that I can do everything.
11:57I don't need anybody.
11:58And it got me pretty far, but I started realizing I was under a glass ceiling.
12:03They call it a glass ceiling because you can't see it, but I was sort of like hitting a wall
12:07in my life in leadership and feeling fulfilled, fulfilled, and relationships because I wasn't
12:13opening up and just in life in general.
12:16I had to shift that mindset and say, instead of it's me against the world, it's more me
12:22with the world.
12:22I'm part of the world.
12:24And it's okay if I don't have all the answers.
12:26It's okay if I'm not the smartest person.
12:28It's okay if I'm not the strongest.
12:30It's okay if I haven't done the most Ironmans or whatever, this thing I've made up that
12:35gives me significance.
12:37And once I've made that shift, it's really helped me become a better leader, spouse,
12:42a better friend, just better in life in general.
12:46And I think it was necessary for me to have the me against the world attitude to get where
12:51I am.
12:51Otherwise, I wouldn't have probably got out of my environment.
12:54But that shift was necessary to get to the next stage of my life as well.
12:57It was, I'm trying to reflect on, you talked a little bit about identity and the shift
13:02of your identity.
13:03Could you expound on that?
13:04Because I thought that was very, that was a big takeaway for me when I read your book
13:08about the importance of shifting that identity.
13:10I look back at, you and I both know we're both huge Tony Robbins fans.
13:15And I remember going to his Unleash the Power Within weekend years ago.
13:19And I came back, the mentality that I came back with was I can do anything.
13:23I didn't question whether I could do something or not.
13:26And I, along with like you, I have a list of things that were big challenges that I went
13:29after and got.
13:31But after coming back from that, I never questioned, can I do this?
13:35My question was different.
13:36It's, should I do this?
13:37Is the juice worth the squeeze?
13:39Is that the price I'm going to have to pay worth what's going to come from it?
13:42And that has really shifted my focus of what is important to me because it's, I don't
13:47feel like I have to prove anything ever.
13:49It's not like, oh, I have to do this because whatever.
13:51Right.
13:51Of course I can.
13:54If I'm willing to put in the time and energy and the effort for as long as it takes until
13:57it happens, then sure.
13:59But I really appreciate how you talked about the shift in identity and how that changes
14:03your lenses on life.
14:06Could you expound on that a little?
14:07Yeah, I think we, at least for me, we tend to get caught up in what we call our identity.
14:13And we, our ego protects this identity we've made out for ourselves.
14:17And one of the things I've had to realize, and I've had to do this over and over in my
14:23life, I've kind of just gone through this recalibration in the last two weeks to recalibrate
14:30my identity is your identity can serve you or it can hold you back.
14:35And the identity is something you've made up.
14:38It wasn't given to you.
14:39You've made it up.
14:40It may have been sort of like, I guess, given to you a little bit by your environment, but
14:46it's really up to you to change it.
14:47And so if you identify as someone that sees the world, like full of problems, you know,
14:56for instance, that's probably not a good going to serve you very much versus someone that
15:01identifies or sees the world full of opportunities.
15:04So it's a matter of finding out what works for you and shifting your identity to the serve
15:09that state.
15:10So for me, part of that identity shift, we talked a little bit about it was the me against
15:14the world attitude.
15:14That was my identity for a long time, and I did everything to prove that, like, I'll
15:19show them, I'll prove them wrong.
15:21That was like my lens, my filter, I saw the world through.
15:24Well, they think they can do that.
15:25I'll show them I can do it better.
15:26That was like the narrative, the lens, like how I saw the world.
15:29But when I shifted to me with the world, I became a better leader because now my lens
15:34and my perspective is like, how can I empower my teammate to get better at their job so we can
15:39all get better together?
15:41You know, it really shifted the mindset.
15:43And I think that's important that if you're not getting the results you want, you have
15:47to ask yourself, is this identity I've created for myself helping me get those results?
15:52If it's not, it's important to step back and shift that identity and realize it's going
15:58to be a little bit of a fight because your ego wants to protect your identity.
16:01Can you talk about that reflection?
16:03I think you mentioned in your book, was it the condor view?
16:05Is that what you called it?
16:06Yeah, condor vision.
16:07Yeah.
16:07Could you expound on that as a way of looking at yourself during that evaluation process?
16:13Yeah.
16:13I just, like I said, did that a couple weeks ago.
16:17The condor vision, as I call it, is in our day-to-day life, it's easy to kind of get these
16:22blinders on and go through the motion and not really see the big picture.
16:25So there's this thing in shamanism called the condor vision where you look at your life
16:32from the perspective of a condor, which is a bird.
16:35So you look at like where you are, you know, zoom out quite a bit.
16:38You zoom way out and then you can get some perspective on your life and like where you're
16:42headed, where the obstacles are, maybe where you don't want to go.
16:45But it gives you a different point of view than the world you're typically in, which is
16:50surrounded by all the things that you have difficulty stepping away from sometimes.
16:54So for me, I look at that condor vision.
16:57And then what I also do is try to get out of my environment.
17:00Like even if it's going for a walk, just do something different where it's out of the
17:04environment or traveling somewhere to give you a different, fresh perspective.
17:07Because if you're in the same routine every single day, it's hard to see those patterns.
17:11But when you zoom out or do something different and reflect on it, you can see those patterns
17:15that you're exuding that may or may not be helping you.
17:19You wrote about actionable awareness.
17:20What does that mean?
17:22Why is it important?
17:22And how can leaders begin to put that to good use?
17:27Well, everybody talks about awareness.
17:29Awareness is great, but if you can't do anything with it, like who cares, right?
17:35So this is a challenge for me.
17:37And the book is really kind of a focused memoir.
17:40It's from my perspective.
17:41And I hope other people can relate and take something from it, as you said.
17:44But for me, I can have awareness all day.
17:46Like I shouldn't eat, you know, this food or drink this drink or do this if I want to lose
17:53weight.
17:54I have the awareness of it.
17:55But if I can't translate that into not eating that food or not drinking that drink or not
18:00doing this or getting to sleep, whatever, then it doesn't matter.
18:03So when I'm talking about actionable awareness, I'm talking about being able to take that awareness
18:06and actually translate it into action so you don't repeat the same things.
18:10This could even be in a relationship.
18:12If you're in a...
18:13Because I think in my book, I talk about health, wealth, and relationships.
18:16I try to get to the big three in my life.
18:18In a relationship, if you know that you have a tendency from an awareness perspective to
18:23get defensive when your partner asks you something specific, but you don't translate that into
18:28changing your behavior, then awareness serves no point.
18:32So you have to take the next step and say, okay, this is my pattern.
18:35They asked me this question.
18:36I get upset.
18:37We get in a fight.
18:38So maybe if they ask me this question, instead of getting upset, maybe I should get curious
18:43and ask a follow-up question about, you know, how come they're thinking this or whatever.
18:47That's taking that awareness and making it actionable because it's resulting in a different
18:51behavior versus just having the awareness of what's going on.
18:54Gotcha.
18:55Can you share your perspective on informed intentions and why they matter?
18:59Yeah, I think intentions are important.
19:02So an example of the book, I believe I used a scenario where I was going out to dinner
19:06with my girlfriend, now wife, in Idaho, and I like to be intentional with the evening.
19:13So if we're going to go out to dinner and the intention for me would be, okay, the reason
19:19we're going out to dinner is to connect, have a good time, and, you know, talk about our
19:23day, maybe our future, whatever that intention is.
19:26So the idea is when we go to dinner, I want to hold on to that intention, which is sort of
19:32like a vision.
19:32And if the waiter spills something or they mess up our order, I don't let it derail the
19:39intention I'm showing up to dinner with because the intention is that, like I said, to have
19:43a good time, to reconnect.
19:45And what we often do, and I'm guilty of this in the past, is the waiter spills something
19:49and I kind of like let it mess up my mindset and think, man, this is like, why did I come
19:53here?
19:54This is a crappy thing.
19:55And now I've got, you know, tea all over my pants or whatever.
19:58And then pretty soon that feeds into the whole dinner and it's like the whole reasoning with
20:03the dinner was negated because now you're having a negative experience.
20:06So it's showing up with the intention.
20:09It's like holding that intention and not letting the circumstances override it.
20:13And I think a lot of us just show up in life.
20:16You show up for whatever and you get what you get.
20:18So it's important to show up with some intention and get what you are aiming for.
20:22It may not always work out, but it will more likely work out if you show up with intention
20:26versus just show up.
20:28And the informed portion of the intentions is sometimes you may have the best intention.
20:33And if you're paying attention or reflecting, then there should be some feedback.
20:39And that's informing the intention for the next time.
20:42I mean, this is kind of a weird example, but at that restaurant, if every single time I've
20:47been there, the waiter spilled something on me, maybe I should go to a different restaurant.
20:51So my intention should be, hey, if we want to have a good time and not get something spilled
20:55on me, I should probably use that feedback and go to a different place or something.
21:00You know, it's funny you say that because I think back to the stuff that I've read from
21:04Tony Robbins, how he talks about be committed to your outcome, but flexible in your approach.
21:08Yeah.
21:08And he talks about, what does he say?
21:11Decide what you want, take massive action, notice what's working, what isn't an adjuster
21:15approach.
21:15You know, that's a lot of what you're talking about.
21:17Your feedback and very much in alignment with your lived experience, being very much in
21:21alignment with some of the stuff he teaches.
21:23And it's just awesome to see this stuff happening in the real world.
21:27I got a kick out of your story about how you, because you were very open and honest, I felt
21:32with how you felt about what was going on.
21:34I loved your story about trying to get to the front of a front row of a rock concert.
21:40And I have been there and I have done that.
21:42And I'll let you tell that story.
21:44Go ahead and tell that story.
21:45And then I've, then I've got a tip for you on how you can, how you do it.
21:48So this was at a Nightwish concert.
21:50They're my favorite band.
21:51And then after COVID, I had tried to go to them for like four or five times during COVID
21:56and the shows kept getting canceled and rescheduled and canceled and rescheduled.
22:00And finally I got to see them in the United States where they're not very popular.
22:03So I think this was at the Wiltern in LA, this particular concert.
22:08So we were on the floor, my girlfriend, now wife and I, Melissa, and my approach,
22:13there's, there's, everyone's like at the barricade.
22:16And my approach was to stick my arm through two people and kind of use as a lever to push
22:19people to the side and then squeeze in.
22:22And I was telling, you knew what your outcome was and you were committed to getting it.
22:25You weren't as much for your approach, but go ahead.
22:28Yeah, I knew what my outcome was.
22:30But my approach, you know, may not have been the best approach, but it had worked in the
22:33past.
22:34So I was telling, I was telling Melissa what I was doing, because this is between the bands.
22:38Uh, they hadn't quite started, but they're getting ready to start.
22:41And she's like, why don't we just like talk to the people up front and, and make friends
22:44with them and see if they let us in.
22:46I'm like, all right.
22:48So that, that, that's what we did.
22:49So she, she talked to him and we got to know the people and we talked to him for a few minutes
22:53before Nightwish came on and they just eventually just said, Hey, you want to stand next to us?
22:57And then we got to know these people.
22:59And like, instead of like them being enemies the whole night, because I pushed them to the side
23:02of my arm, they're like best friends.
23:04And it made the whole experience much better.
23:06So her approach was a much better approach to my, you know, brute force approach for sure.
23:11There's a, there are multiple interesting perspectives on that.
23:15And this is why I asked you to tell that story because I don't care whether in business or life,
23:19a lot of times there's more than one right answer.
23:22If you're a right answer being defined as this will help me accomplish my goal.
23:26I can do a, I can do B, I can do C.
23:28Fortunately for me, I don't get too hung up.
23:30It doesn't always have to be my way.
23:31And I'm better at that now than I used to be.
23:33You had a plan and outcome.
23:35And could you have done it?
23:37Sure.
23:37She had a better answer.
23:39You were smart enough to listen.
23:40Good move.
23:41So, and the nice thing about it was because you weren't so focused on your, your goal,
23:46which is, I want to get to the front row through this crowd of rock fans.
23:50And you made friends along the way.
23:52Those were some of those micro moments because you would have robbed yourself of that might
23:57have been almost as enjoyable as, well, maybe not almost enjoyable because Nightwish is
24:01awesome, but pretty cool.
24:02But future reference, I'll return the favor here.
24:05I've been to numerous music festivals and I absolutely liked hard rock.
24:09So as you know, some of them get rowdy.
24:12Well, the secret is go far, go all the way to the left side of the stage, farthest as you
24:17can get because everyone's looking at the stage.
24:19And then I go up and then I go over and in.
24:22Then I'm not buttoned in front of anybody.
24:24That's a lateral move.
24:25And I make friends along the way from the back to the front.
24:28You go to the side.
24:29So you just go laterally and then go in.
24:31That's exactly right.
24:32And if you, and if you're just off to the cinema stage, you're out of the way of all
24:36the mosh pits and the people crowd surfing, you're not going to get kicked in the heads.
24:41I speak from experience here.
24:43You're better off staying a little closer to the left, but that, that I just want to return
24:47the favor since I've lived this experience.
24:49So that would be another right answer.
24:51You had one answer.
24:52Your wife had another answer.
24:53I just gave you another option.
24:55So anyhow, well, Hey, I really appreciate your time.
24:58Like I would encourage everyone to read your book.
25:00I thought it was relevant, not only for business.
25:02What would you say for your, for your relationships, for your business?
25:05And what was the third thing you said it was good for?
25:08You said it better than me.
25:09Well, the relationships.
25:11Yes.
25:11I thought it was relevant in all of those areas.
25:14Otherwise we wouldn't be talking.
25:15I thought it was fantastic.
25:16I loved it.
25:16It was very relevant.
25:18And I am a better person because I read it and I will make choices and better choices in
25:23those areas because I did.
25:24So I would encourage other people to check it out.
25:26How can they find out more about you and your book?
25:28Yeah.
25:28My book is available on Amazon.
25:31It's also available on audible.
25:33I had Kaleo Griffith narrate it.
25:34He did a couple of Tim Ferriss's book.
25:36I think he did Trump's, the art of the deal as well.
25:39And then they can find me on LinkedIn on ChristianEspinoza.com or my company website,
25:45bluegoatcyber.com.
25:46It's been a pleasure visiting with you and, and thank you for bringing some of the stories
25:51to life, not only in the written word, but face to face.
25:54And I hope the people watching and listening and get as much enjoyment and pleasure and benefit
25:58out of it as I did.
25:59Thanks so much, Christian.
26:01Yeah.
26:01Awesome.
26:01Thanks for reading my book, Mason.
26:02I appreciate it.