Is the In-Season Tournament Bad for the Game? | Big 3 Podcast - video Dailymotion

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The Celtics made a late push to further a blowout win over the Chicago Bulls for the sake of advancing in the In-Season Tournament. Does this new addition to the NBA season jeopardize some integrity of the game? The Big 3 give their thoughts on some issues the IST presents.  This episode of the Big 3 NBA Podcast is brought to you by:  FanDuel Sportsbook, the exclusive wagering partner of the CLNS Media Network. Right now, NEW customers get ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS in BONUS BETS with any winning FIVE DOLLAR MONEYLINE BET! So, visit https://FanDuel.com/BOSTON and kick off the NFL season. FanDuel, Official Partner of the NFL. 21+ and present in MA. Hope is here. First online real money wager only. $5 pregame moneyline wager required. First online real money wager only. $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire 7 days after receipt. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. GamblingHelpLineMa.org or call (800)-327-5050 for 24/7 support. Play it smart from the start! GameSenseMA.com or call 1-800-GAM-1234.  Indeed! Visit https://Indeed.com/ALIST to start hiring now! Indeed understands the importance of making every dollar count when growing your business. That's why you only pay for quality applications that match your must-have job requirements with Indeed. If you need to hire, you need Indeed.  SeatGeek! Use code DREAMERSPRO for $20 off your first SeatGeek order! Visit https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/DREAMERSPRO !  #celtics #NBA #BostonCeltics

Transcript

00:00 All right, we'll get into the Celtics.

00:01 I guess that's why people are tuned in.

00:03 Let's talk about their most recent win,

00:05 which was a blowout against the Bulls.

00:07 They advanced to the end season tournament,

00:09 knockout round, which people, I didn't realize,

00:12 some people hate this end season tournament

00:14 more than I thought they would, but what did,

00:18 okay, first of all, let's address the comments

00:20 about the fact that Drew Holiday and Jaylen Brown

00:23 did not seem happy about the fact that they had to

00:26 literally blow out this team to win.

00:28 Obviously, they had to get the 23 points

00:30 to make sure that they secured that next round,

00:33 but what did you, do you guys think it's that big

00:34 of a deal that, yes, they had to embarrass the Bulls,

00:38 but I mean, the game is the game.

00:41 The Bulls could have showed up too.

00:43 I didn't think it was that deep.

00:44 - Well, I think it is that deep,

00:46 and to me, it's deep because this is one of the few issues

00:50 where you will find players and coaches arming up

00:55 on this issue, because no one really likes to be

00:58 the Goliath when you don't have to be.

01:02 The Celtics could have easily beaten the Bulls

01:06 at like 70, 65% full strength,

01:09 but in order to beat them by 23 points or more,

01:12 they had to give a little bit more,

01:14 and it feels weird for an NBA player to go out there

01:18 trying to blow a team out, and again,

01:21 this is not a hot take, but I'm like 99.9% sure

01:25 that when the offseason comes around again,

01:30 players' association, coaches' association

01:33 are going to go at Adam Silver and be like,

01:35 "Look, you need to get rid of this point differential

01:39 "as one of the tiebreakers,"

01:40 or certainly not one of the primary tiebreakers.

01:42 To me, the logical thing for them to have done

01:45 was to go through, whoever has the best record,

01:48 that's the team that goes on,

01:49 and whoever has the next best record

01:52 in the Eastern Conference or the Western Conference,

01:55 they also get the wildcard spot.

01:57 - I like that.

01:58 - That, to me, makes a lot of sense,

01:59 and I would not be surprised if the league comes up

02:02 with that type of tweak for this in-season tournament

02:07 going forward, but other than that,

02:09 I mean, I think it's going better

02:10 than I think a lot of people thought it would.

02:12 I'm curious what Gary's thoughts are.

02:14 - Well, I agree.

02:17 I think they'll probably adjust

02:19 the point differential thing.

02:21 I do think it was a big deal,

02:24 but I also think it was a situation for the Celtics

02:28 where they were kind of running into a situation in Chicago

02:32 where the Bulls are just a total mess,

02:34 and you combine the Bulls with being 5-14,

02:39 with all that talent they have,

02:41 and I'm not saying,

02:42 and I was talking with some other writers last night

02:45 about this, like, I'm not saying the Bulls

02:47 should be the top of the Eastern Conference at all,

02:49 but they are a 500 team.

02:51 They got DeMar DeRozan, Nikola Vucevic,

02:55 Zach Levine, Alex Caruso, Kobe White, Patrick Williams.

03:00 Like, they have talent.

03:02 Like, they got a bunch of lottery,

03:04 but like, they have talent.

03:05 There is something wrong there.

03:07 They are literally checking out.

03:09 Like, Zach Levine had an injured foot.

03:12 He was one for nine.

03:14 Vucevic, who usually kills the Celtics, had eight points.

03:17 Like, DeRozan kind of showed up,

03:19 and then he kind of was like, "All right, I'm good.

03:21 I've done enough. I scored my 19."

03:23 Like, they just were, they laid down,

03:28 and then the Celtics were like,

03:29 "Well, if we're up 30, we might as well finish this off,"

03:34 and that's where it became kind of interesting

03:36 because it was one of those games where, let's say,

03:39 it was a normal NBA game.

03:41 The Celts are up 28 in the third quarter.

03:44 They put in all their guys at the end of the bench,

03:48 and then the Bulls, let's say, outscored them by 12.

03:51 The Celtics went by 16.

03:53 You know, it's a normal NBA win.

03:55 No one's feeling bad, you know, whatever.

03:58 The Bulls bench guys are better or scoring more

04:02 than the Celtics bench guys

04:04 because they're taking advantage of their playing time,

04:06 but in this situation,

04:07 the Celtics had to, like, not lose the quarter,

04:10 fourth quarter by, what was it, seven points,

04:13 so they had something to play for,

04:15 so there's Jason in the game,

04:16 so it just got really awkward,

04:18 and it was uncomfortable to watch,

04:19 and I just don't think the NBA wants uncomfortable situations

04:24 when you're talking about any game

04:26 where you're visibly running up the score,

04:30 or you're, you know, and I know people are like,

04:32 "Well, you know, the whole Andre Drummond situation,

04:35 fouling him up 30, you know, a bad free throw shooter."

04:39 So I'm like, "Hey, you know, get better at free throw shooting.

04:41 They won't do that to you."

04:43 Like, I get it.

04:43 It's pretty simple, and it's a hard court,

04:46 and Andre has been in the league now, when?

04:50 12 years, 13 years now?

04:53 So he's not improved at his free throw shooting,

04:55 so he's got, he did for a minute,

04:58 then he's not good now,

05:00 so unfortunately, for me,

05:03 I don't think it was,

05:06 I think it was just uncomfortable,

05:07 and I think the Celtics also ran in a situation

05:09 where they were playing a team that's a complete mess.

05:12 Like, they're gonna make Chicago look,

05:15 they were embarrassing last night.

05:17 Like, they were half going through,

05:19 they were half speed.

05:21 Levine was hurt, okay?

05:23 He was trying to play hurt.

05:24 He didn't look right.

05:26 You know, they just looked like,

05:28 "Man, we're not together."

05:30 And I looked at Billy Donovan.

05:31 Billy Donovan looks like he's about 73 years old now.

05:34 I mean, he looked, oh, I just looked at him close up,

05:36 and he was like, you know, you remember him

05:39 before your time, Quanie,

05:40 when he played at Providence or whatever in the mid '80s,

05:44 and he was Billy the Kid,

05:45 and he ain't Billy the Kid no more.

05:46 He's Billy the AARP recipient.

05:50 - I'm not the AARP Billy the Kid.

05:52 - I mean, he is, the Bulls have turned him old.

05:56 - Aged him, yeah.

05:57 - Yeah, it's just, he looked so,

05:59 he looked weathered last night,

06:01 and I feel bad for him,

06:04 but it's also just,

06:06 sometimes you put together teams,

06:08 and it don't work.

06:10 And they traded for Levine,

06:13 they got the Jimmy Butler deal,

06:15 Vucevic, they got him for Wendell Carter,

06:17 they signed DeRozan,

06:19 or got DeRozan from San Antonio,

06:21 oh, we got our big three,

06:23 it sounded good, and it has not worked.

06:26 So I can't blame the Celtics entirely,

06:28 but it was awkward and uncomfortable,

06:29 and I think the NBA needs to avoid that.

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06:48 - Like, I understand the sentiment

06:51 of Dylan Brown and Drew Holliday,

06:54 but then when you look at the opposite end of the spectrum,

06:56 it's like the onus, I think, kind of is on the Bulls.

07:00 Yes, they suck, but like, y'all can't just lay,

07:02 like, even though that's obviously what they did,

07:04 you can't just lay down and embarrass yourself.

07:06 You're still a professional basketball team.

07:09 I get it, you shots weren't going in,

07:10 whatever the case may be, but I don't know.

07:13 It's a trick, I think it's still tricky,

07:15 'cause I'm like, as a competitor, what are you gonna do?

07:18 Like, you, as a Celtics, you should keep playing.

07:20 What are you gonna do, just stop?

07:22 There's no mercy rule, like, you gotta keep going.

07:24 - The only thing, you would've put the guys,

07:28 Banton and those guys, Marsh Stevens,

07:32 and then it would've been the Bulls bench guys

07:35 against the Celtics bench guys,

07:37 but usually in that situation, as we all know,

07:41 the team with the losing team usually makes a run,

07:43 and the Celtics bench guys have gotten--

07:45 - The homie guys come up.

07:47 - Yeah, and then suddenly you've lost

07:49 that 23-point lead you need to have,

07:51 and Joe could've done that,

07:53 and they could've been eliminated,

07:55 but I just think they saw the light

07:57 at the end of the tunnel, was like,

07:58 well, we're here now, so we might as well get this done.

08:02 - Yeah.

08:03 - And the thing that jumped out to me

08:06 as I was watching the last minutes of that game,

08:08 and that exchange between Joe and Billy Donovan,

08:12 I personally, from a petty standpoint,

08:15 I really enjoyed that,

08:16 because I understood where Billy Donovan was coming from,

08:19 'cause he's just like,

08:20 why you run up and score more points?

08:21 And Joe was just like, 'cause we trying to get the Vegas.

08:25 I mean, what?

08:26 What are you?

08:27 Exactly, I enjoyed that.

08:29 But the thing that it reminded me of

08:31 is something that Joe said,

08:33 or he talked to me about after they beat Toronto,

08:36 and Toronto coaches got all the huff and puff

08:38 because Joe called, did a challenge late in the game.

08:41 Joe did that challenge

08:42 because he was sticking up for his player

08:44 who said that was a BS call made against me.

08:46 Joe, I think, is slowly but surely

08:49 throwing out these little breadcrumbs

08:51 that show that there's a different kind of trust

08:54 that he has with his team,

08:56 and a different kind of trust they have with him.

08:58 He could have, Joe could have easily said,

09:00 you know what, we don't really need the Vegas team,

09:02 we're trying to win a championship

09:03 at the end of the season.

09:04 Let's just make sure I keep Tatum and these guys healthy,

09:07 or win the stand by 17, and we won't go to Vegas.

09:09 But there was something said in that locker room

09:12 by the players, which was like,

09:13 yo, let's go get this trip to Vegas, y'all.

09:16 I know it might get a little uncomfortable,

09:18 and we might have to crack that head

09:19 maybe one time too many,

09:21 'cause clearly they were the better team.

09:24 But we need to play like we wanna win this thing big.

09:27 And Joe's like, you know what, okay,

09:30 that's what I'm gonna do.

09:31 I'm gonna make sure we're in position to win this thing

09:33 by enough points so we can get to Vegas.

09:35 And again, I see the Toronto situation,

09:39 I see this situation as more ammo

09:42 for Joe building up this stockpile of trust

09:46 that these guys have in him and vice versa.

09:48 And when we start talking about winning a championship

09:50 and getting into those games

09:52 where your coach is telling you something

09:53 that really don't make a whole lot of sense

09:55 that you should do, but damn it, he believes in it,

09:57 you are gonna try and do it.

09:58 You're gonna try and execute it

09:59 because you have built a different kind of trust

10:02 with this guy than what you had a year ago.

10:04 And I just think that's so important

10:06 to acknowledge and understand

10:08 that's part of what Joe's doing.

10:09 He didn't run up the score

10:10 because he wants to make the Bulls look bad.

10:13 He ran up the score

10:14 because he wanted to get his team to Vegas.

10:15 And his players wanted to go to Vegas.

10:17 And I know Tatum and Drew,

10:19 they got in their feelings after the game,

10:21 feeling bad for the Bulls

10:22 because they beat them down worse than they probably had to.

10:25 But they understand at the end of the day,

10:28 you're trying to put yourself in the best position

10:30 to be one of the best teams.

10:32 And this, you know, end season tournament, it's a big deal.

10:36 This is what we've all been talking about.

10:37 And they had a chance to put themselves

10:40 in a position to go there.

10:40 And you know, let's be real,

10:42 they're gonna go in as the favorites coming out of these,

10:44 if we're being honest and candid.

10:46 And they should feel that way.

10:48 They have the best record in the NBA.

10:49 You should win a tournament like this

10:51 if you got the best record in the NBA.

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11:21 - So to your point, I wanna bring up once again,

11:28 the comment that Jalen made,

11:30 because you mentioned that clearly there is a trust

11:33 that's building between the coach and his players,

11:35 but also, and I wonder if it has to do with the fact that,

11:38 like you mentioned,

11:39 that's like, is a member of the Players Association

11:45 and vice president,

11:46 and does have to advocate on behalf of the players.

11:48 So when he mentioned that the decision to keep playing

11:50 was a coaching decision,

11:52 and he basically sounded as though,

11:54 not necessarily that he was reluctant,

11:56 but it was more of like,

11:56 "Yeah, I gotta do what my coach tells me."

11:59 Is that an implication that, again,

12:01 he already mentioned that he doesn't agree with the methods,

12:04 but is that an implication that that trust is fully there,

12:08 as much as you're saying it is?

12:10 - I think that's part of it,

12:11 because Jalen, and we know Jalen well enough to know that

12:14 if he ain't rocking with you,

12:15 he's going to low-key let it be known.

12:18 I think back to the whole Kyrie Irving situation,

12:20 where the trust doesn't start at the bottom,

12:23 it starts at the top.

12:24 Translation, why are you coming at us?

12:26 You should be coming at yourself.

12:27 That wasn't the case here.

12:28 He's basically saying that Joe made a decision,

12:31 and we're going to rock with that decision.

12:33 That's part of the growth.

12:35 That has to be part of the growth.

12:36 But to me, in this particular instance,

12:39 I think it also speaks to the fact that this decision

12:43 to have all these specific rules

12:46 was not a unanimous decision among the players.

12:49 It's clear as hell that it was not a unanimous decision.

12:53 And I don't know if anyone really thought

12:55 the whole point differential thing

12:58 would be this big a deal,

12:59 but when you start thinking about it,

13:01 you basically have to blow out teams

13:04 to get to move on to the knockout run.

13:06 That's what they had to do.

13:07 And that's an uncomfortable thing to do,

13:09 because NBA players,

13:11 and we've seen this happen time and time again,

13:13 they think in both the short and long-term.

13:15 Short-term, we want to win these games now.

13:17 Long-term, we want to stay healthy enough

13:19 to win game later.

13:20 By having to blow this team out,

13:22 by having to play Tatum more minutes than you normally would

13:25 and Jalen more minutes than you normally would

13:27 in a blowout game,

13:28 you run the risk of your long-term health situation.

13:33 And this is a team that is already,

13:35 for Zane, it's missed games, it's still out.

13:37 Drew Holliday's missed game.

13:39 Derek White, Mr. Indestructible, he's missed games,

13:42 and he's been questionable with some illnesses.

13:45 You go down the line and you want to minimize

13:47 as much as you can any opportunity for guys

13:49 to have a physical setback.

13:51 And this scenario is completely counter to that.

13:55 You're going to have to play your main guys more minutes,

13:57 because as Gary pointed out,

13:59 that bench of Chicago,

14:00 I don't care how trash they've been all game long,

14:02 they were going to outscore the Celtics bench.

14:05 There's, I'm 100% that was going to happen.

14:09 And that could have potentially put them

14:12 in a position where they don't go on to Vegas,

14:15 or have a potential to go on to Vegas

14:16 and go to the knockout race.

14:18 I think Jalen gets it, but he doesn't,

14:20 I don't think he liked the idea

14:22 that they had to blow him out to do it.

14:24 - I could be overthinking it,

14:25 but the differential aspect as well,

14:29 is there not a level of like an ethics concern?

14:32 Because the first thing I thought about

14:33 was just betting in general.

14:35 And we already know how messy it's gotten

14:38 when it comes to sports betting in general.

14:40 So if I'm a player or a coach,

14:43 or someone on the staff,

14:45 what could they, how could they not possibly,

14:48 again, I haven't really fully fleshed this out,

14:51 but think about the betting aspect of like,

14:53 all right, well, we know we have to win by 23.

14:56 And then the point saving scandal,

14:58 that's a possibility,

14:59 unless I'm misconstruing it.

15:01 But I feel like that should be something

15:03 that's in play as well.

15:04 'Cause that's something you can actually control,

15:06 for the most part, as a player sometimes.

15:09 - Yeah, we should take the negative.

15:10 I've got some thoughts on it.

15:11 We should take it though.

15:13 - Well, I think an easy bet,

15:14 when you get these games,

15:15 it'll probably be the over,

15:17 where you know that teams are trying to pile up points.

15:21 If you look at the Milwaukee, sorry,

15:24 the Toronto Brooklyn game last night,

15:28 I think the nets are up like 108, 100

15:33 with like a minute left.

15:36 And then literally won 115, 103.

15:39 Like they scored seven points in the last,

15:42 they were trying to catch the Celtics

15:44 in terms of point differential.

15:45 And they scored seven points in the last minute.

15:48 And won 115, 103.

15:50 So again, that was really,

15:51 I think it was like 97, 96 with three minutes left,

15:56 ended up being a 12 point nets win,

15:59 because the nets are like,

16:00 we have to pile up the points.

16:02 The same last week in Orlando,

16:05 where the Magic had the Celtics beat

16:08 and scored seven points in the last 62 seconds,

16:11 including a basket with nine seconds left.

16:14 And I kind of wondered watching,

16:16 I kind of forgot.

16:17 I was like, why are they,

16:18 why is like Wagner still in the game?

16:20 Franz Wagner,

16:21 and he's shooting a jumper with like nine seconds left.

16:24 Like what's up with that?

16:26 But it ended up being a margin thing.

16:28 So I do think that ethics comes into it.

16:32 And these players, as I wrote today,

16:35 when it go up like,

16:37 we as basketball fans,

16:38 former basketball players,

16:40 or whenever you played ball competitively.

16:43 - I'm a former basketball player.

16:44 - Okay, yeah.

16:45 People like you, Kwame,

16:48 are taught to play a certain way.

16:53 You're taught not to run up the score.

16:56 You're taught not to,

17:02 embarrass your opponent.

17:03 And in this situation,

17:06 you sort of have to.

17:07 You know, you're taught,

17:09 that's the thing about what I think

17:12 is going away from the thinking

17:13 of this in-season tournament.

17:17 A, you know, win.

17:19 B, win, you know,

17:23 win by a lot of points.

17:25 You know, it's like college football.

17:27 Oregon is trying to get to the playoff,

17:30 so they're gonna run up the score.

17:32 You know, they beat my Cal Bears 63 to 19.

17:36 Did they need to really score?

17:38 Did they really need to score?

17:38 - Did you try that, Kareem?

17:39 63 to 19?

17:41 - 63 to 19.

17:41 Did they really need to score 63 points in that game?

17:43 No.

17:44 But they're trying to make people,

17:46 they're trying to make the voters look good

17:48 for the college football playoff.

17:50 So we're turning this into college football,

17:53 in a sense, this in-season tournament,

17:55 where you're, you know,

17:57 if you win by only a touchdown,

17:59 well, that's not very impressive.

18:02 And so you gotta win by seven touchdowns.

18:05 You gotta run up the score.

18:06 You gotta keep throwing the ball the last few minutes.

18:09 Like, in basketball, it's never been like that.

18:12 You win, you win.

18:14 (upbeat music)

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18:19 (upbeat music)

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Is the In-Season Tournament Bad for the Game? | Big 3 Podcast

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