The Bill S26E02 Held Responsible
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00:00Morning. I'm here for the SOEC tenant. How many have we got today?
00:23Just one. Okay, thanks very much.
00:28Morning. Come and have a chat. Have a seat.
00:40My name is Terry. They said I didn't have to give my name.
00:45How can I help you? The tenant gave me this.
00:52Okay. Doesn't make any difference if you know them.
00:57No. If you didn't want to do anything and you didn't give your consent, then it's sexual assault.
01:06What if there was more than one of them? How many are we talking about?
01:12My boyfriend and his mates. He said no one would believe me.
01:18How many? Four.
01:25Well, you tell me the truth and I'll believe you. Okay?
01:55They're Cooper. Yeah, what?
02:10You're under arrest for raping Janine Swire.
02:13We've got to pull Hayes now.
02:20Right, okay. Yep. This one's going to Barton Street, Nick as well.
02:37Are you Greg Holbrook's mother? Yes.
02:41What's happened to him? Nothing. We just need to speak to him in connection with a serious incident.
02:48Okay. He's at the pool. He's he's training. I can call him.
02:52Please don't do that, Mrs. Holbrook. He's dead. We'll find him.
02:57And what? We'll arrest him and take him down the station.
03:17Mark Watts, you're under arrest for raping Janine Swire.
03:22You do not have to say anything. It may harm your defence.
03:24If you do not mention when questioned, it's something you later rely on in court.
03:27Anything you do say, I'm not giving it. Do you understand me?
03:35Okay, good. Thanks. Four boys are in custody, two are here, two at Barton Street.
03:40Right. You wanted to see me, Garth?
03:42Yeah, we've got a group rape allegation. The girl, Janine Clark, reported to the Haven.
03:47Terry picked up it at the SOAT clinic. Do you want it?
03:49Sure. Okay, find Banksy and I'll brief you.
03:53So how old are the principals? 16, 17 and 18.
03:57And who else is free? Joe and Terry, but Terry's the SOAT.
04:02Use Joe and Banksy. Grace is the better interviewer.
04:05I want you to use Joe. Why? Why not?
04:11He's on his way up. Change of plan, sorry. Superintendent wants to use Joe on this.
04:17Okay.
04:22Joe? Yeah? We're in Banksy arrest.
04:27We've got a couple of cameras in the room. There's one there and there's one there.
04:32You okay with that?
04:35The reason we have them is, see, it's just that we like to use the videos in court so you don't have to appear.
04:44It's just Mark videoed some of it on his phone.
04:49I see. Well, if you'd like someone to come in, be with you, maybe your mum?
04:56I haven't told my mum.
04:58Okay. Well, look, we've got a technique here.
05:02If you look at me when I'm speaking, you'll soon forget they're there, alright?
05:09Right, now, where were we? Oh, yeah.
05:13This happened two nights ago. She disclosed to a friend, the friend told the teacher, the teacher took her to the haven.
05:19Have they got all the forensics? Yeah. And we're inside the three-day window for the boys as well.
05:24Has Terry interviewed the girl? He's just about to.
05:27Right, shall we watch this video feed?
05:30Go on.
05:32Is she a grown-up 16 or a young 16?
05:35Dunno.
05:38My boyfriend said it was a party so we got dressed up.
05:42Where was the party? Greg says.
05:45When I got there, it was just Greg, Mark, Paul and Leo.
05:49I asked where everyone else was and Mark said they'd come later.
05:53Is this Greg's family home? Yeah. He lives with his mum, not his dad.
05:57Right. She was out.
06:00Mark and Greg were playing Xbox and Leo and Paul were on the net.
06:05Was anyone drinking or anything like that?
06:07Boys had beer, they gave me a breezer.
06:10Leo was smoking but I don't like weed.
06:13Were the others smoking? I think so.
06:16Leo and Paul got mad.
06:19They were laughing. I went to look but it was porn so I walked away.
06:24When they got loud, what were they saying?
06:27Look at that, in front of everybody, that sort of thing.
06:31It was like sex in public, on the bus or something.
06:37Leo tried to get me to have another breezer but I hadn't finished the first one.
06:43That's when it didn't feel right.
06:48I asked Mark, can we go? What was his response to that?
06:54If I wanted to be on our own, we could go upstairs.
06:57That wasn't what I meant.
07:00Why didn't you go upstairs?
07:03Greg's phone.
07:06And then?
07:09We had sex.
07:12Were you OK with that?
07:15I thought so.
07:19I was getting dressed and Mark said, what are you doing?
07:23I thought we were going but he said no.
07:27If I did it for him, I could do it for the others.
07:32I tried to walk past him and he grabbed my wrist and said, don't show me up.
07:37He just changed. I could see it in his eyes like he was someone else.
07:44Then he slapped me.
07:48I must have sat down or maybe he pushed me, I don't remember.
07:54I do remember what he said.
07:56What was it?
07:59You were nice to me, don't go until you're nice to the others.
08:13Then they all came in.
08:17Name? Leo Cooper.
08:19Full name?
08:21You got anything to say?
08:23I'm authorising your detention at Sunhill Police Station.
08:27You have the right to speak to an independent solicitor free of charge.
08:32I'm told that you've been arrested.
08:35You're at Sunhill Police Station. I'm authorising your detention.
08:39Take yourself.
08:42Have you anything to say?
08:44I ain't done nothing.
08:50Can you remember anything specific that they might have said to each other?
09:00Leo said, look, she's into it. But I wasn't. I wanted it over.
09:08What about Greg?
09:10He didn't say nothing.
09:12He was in the room. What was he doing?
09:14He didn't have sex with me.
09:16Well, what did he do?
09:20He held me.
09:23When Leo and Paul were finished, Mark said there was one more thing.
09:28He said that Greg had learned to hold my wrist, son.
09:34He said he could do what he liked.
09:45Was it just Mark?
09:50He made Paul video it on his phone.
09:52On Paul's phone?
09:54Mark's.
09:58When he was finished, that was it.
10:01They kept saying things like, that was incredible, you were amazing.
10:05Like suddenly I was there again and they could talk to me.
10:09Like it was all normal.
10:13You said that when he was finished, that was it.
10:19I asked if I could use the bathroom.
10:22Greg went with me.
10:25He got me a drink of juice.
10:29I want you to consider something that could be very difficult for you.
10:34Do you think that this was planned?
10:39Yeah, I do.
10:41They all knew it was a party.
10:45It was me.
11:03Anything useful?
11:04Nothing unexpected.
11:06What about that laptop?
11:07In the front room.
11:18How will there be a policeman outside my son's bedroom?
11:20This is ridiculous.
11:21Crime scene, Mrs. Holbrook, so he's there until we're finished.
11:24Is this the only computer in the house or are there others?
11:26There's only one and that's fine.
11:27Well, we're going to have to take it.
11:28I need that for work.
11:29Well, we need it for evidence.
11:30Oh, this is so totally over the top.
11:31Anyone would think there'd been a murder in here.
11:33Rape is a serious offence.
11:34Yes.
11:35But what about innocent until proved guilty?
11:40Jo?
11:41Yeah?
11:42What is it?
11:43Seriously, look, I found these condoms in the bin.
11:46How many other?
11:47Three.
11:50What?
11:51What, so some teenagers had sex, that's all that says?
11:54Mrs. Holbrook, your son will need an appropriate adult for interview.
11:58You'll be more used to him down at the station.
12:12I don't know what this is for.
12:13I told you, I didn't have sex with her.
12:16Get dressed.
12:18She's saying I did.
12:20How about you give us your account in interview?
12:22Then we'll discuss what she said.
12:28I don't understand why she came to you and not to me.
12:33Truth is that Janine didn't tell anyone about this incident.
12:37A good friend of hers noticed that she was distressed.
12:40I noticed she was distant.
12:48Right, Janine, all of the boys have been arrested now.
12:53They'll either be bailed or charged, depending on what the CPS want to do.
12:58You mean that could bump into the ministry?
13:00Yeah.
13:02Or they could come looking for you, or phoning you, or anything.
13:05No, they won't be allowed to do any of that.
13:10And if you come under pressure, then you tell me, and then we'll decide what to do about it.
13:15Then is too late.
13:18All of this is too late.
13:28I'll talk to her.
13:32Mrs Clark, I won't presume to tell you that I know what you're going through, because I don't.
13:40However, I do have a daughter, and I think that if this had happened to her, then my biggest problem would be anger.
13:49I told her that boy thinks too much of himself.
13:51He's arrogant.
13:53The more she sees in him, I'll never know.
13:55My aim is to get justice for Janine.
13:58And we need to support her.
14:00And part of that process is not making her believe that she brought this on herself.
14:06You think I blame her?
14:08I blame me.
14:12I don't want her making the same mistakes I did.
14:16I should have said no more often, OK? A long leash is what's caused this.
14:21A short leash doesn't work.
14:24She needs to grow up.
14:25This is not growing up.
14:33Carol.
14:35The boys did this.
14:38To Janine and to you, OK?
14:40The boys, they're responsible.
14:42Is that supposed to make me feel better?
14:45You can't promise her justice.
14:49Justice would mean this never happened.
15:03Greg, you've got a riot.
15:05Shut up.
15:06My dad says get one.
15:07We didn't do anything.
15:09This way, Mr. Watts.
15:11So I've got Greg Holbrook's mobile, but I can't find his listed.
15:16There was one.
15:27Where's your phone, Mark?
15:29Lost it.
15:30When?
15:31Wednesday.
15:32It's after this happened.
15:33That's convenient.
15:34No, it's not.
15:35It's annoying.
15:36You know why you're here, Mark.
15:38We want your account of what happened.
15:41Two nights ago at Greg's house.
15:43We all got a bit drunk and had sex with my girlfriend.
15:46All of you?
15:47No.
15:48Greg was too shy.
15:49Start at the beginning.
15:51Greg, Leo and Paul, yeah?
15:52We trained together.
15:53We know each other from diving.
15:55We're all friends.
15:56They know Janine too.
15:57Tuesday night.
15:59Greg and me were at his house.
16:01Leo and Paul came over.
16:03We were playing Xbox and stuff, having a few drinks, waiting for Janine.
16:07Waiting?
16:08Yeah.
16:09Waiting.
16:11That's the point.
16:12It was the night.
16:13The night for what?
16:14Janine wanting to know what it would be like.
16:17More than one guy.
16:19Wait a minute.
16:20Are you saying that this was Janine's idea?
16:22Uh-huh.
16:23She was a bit nervous, OK?
16:25So me and her went upstairs to get in the mood.
16:28What did that involve?
16:30We had sex.
16:31Just the two of you?
16:32Just us.
16:34Then the others came up like we agreed.
16:37Like who agreed?
16:38Janine, me, everyone.
16:43He says you reckon she couldn't consent because she couldn't leave.
16:46That's rubbish.
16:47This was her idea.
16:49You'd think I'd suggest it again if it wasn't.
16:51What do you mean again?
16:53Again.
16:54This isn't the first time.
16:57Ask Greg.
16:58He started it.
17:02Interview time.
17:11It's embarrassing.
17:13If you're not happy discussing sex in front of everyone...
17:15Whatever she did, OK?
17:17Whatever you did.
17:19Just tell the truth.
17:25Two weeks back after training, we were at Mark's house playing Call of Duty.
17:30Janine was with us, like, kissing Mark on the neck and stuff.
17:33But he was ignoring her.
17:35What?
17:37So, like, out of the blue, she just sits on my lap.
17:41Why did she do that?
17:43To get his attention, I reckon.
17:46But he kept blanking her, so she kissed me.
17:50And what did you do?
17:51Nothing. I was too surprised.
17:54What did Mark do?
17:56He could see what she was doing, but it was like...
17:59I don't know. It was like he didn't want her to win.
18:03And she kept kissing me really slowly to, like, see how far she could go.
18:08And how far was that?
18:10Mark said, if it's a threesome you want, you can have it.
18:13But after he finished his level.
18:15And how did Janine take that?
18:17She said by that time, me and her would be finished, like, joking.
18:22And she got up like I was supposed to go with her.
18:26Did you go with her?
18:29It didn't get that far.
18:31Why not?
18:32Mark's dad came home, and so everyone acted like it never happened.
18:35So, if Mark's dad hadn't come back and you played,
18:38do you think she would have had sex with you?
18:40I don't know.
18:42The way that she looked at me, it was like anything could have happened.
18:45Yeah, you hear that? It was the girl. She started it.
18:53None of this was in her statement.
18:55She kissed another boy, if that's as far as it went.
18:57It complicates things. It changes the context.
18:59Kissing someone else on another occasion.
19:01It was more than kissing.
19:02Consent for occasion one does not bestow consent on occasion two, Your Honour.
19:05OK, look, this was offered in support of the boy's story,
19:08so does it support her story, or does it support the boy's?
19:11She didn't tell a story. She made an allegation.
19:14You two are the investigating officers.
19:17You focus on the perpetrators, not the victims.
19:20You focus on the perpetrators, not the victim.
19:22Terry is the so-it. You leave the empathy to him.
19:28Do you want to go and talk to the girl about it?
19:30Yeah.
19:32When we hear what she's got to say, we confront the boys with it.
19:34We already did, Gov.
19:39He's talking about the evidence, Jo.
19:41So she has to be a total innocent before we can believe her?
19:44You can say yes right up to the line, and a no even then makes it pay.
19:48I know, but no-one here is saying otherwise.
19:50That is how the wind is blowing.
19:52You know the conviction rate. We have to look at all the angles.
19:55And what about Urangela? She was held in a room and raped.
19:58I believe the victim.
20:11Mark gave you an explanation, according to our solicitor.
20:14And we're investigating it.
20:16So when will you release him?
20:18When we've completed our inquiries, or after 24 hours, whichever comes first.
20:22Do you know where Mark's mobile is, Mr. Watts?
20:26No.
20:28If you find it, will you let us know?
20:30If I find it.
20:42OK, Janine.
20:46The boys say it was planned, but they say that you planned it.
20:50They say you wanted to experiment.
20:52You spoke to Mark and he organised it.
20:54That's a lie.
20:55Look, even if you did speak to Mark, and then you changed your mind, it's still rape.
21:00But I didn't.
21:01Greg and Mark said that this has happened before.
21:03What happened before?
21:04Nothing.
21:05There was some fooling around, according to them, at Mark's house.
21:08Janine?
21:10It's got nothing to do with the other night.
21:12The boys say it has.
21:14They say that you got interrupted and you wanted to try again.
21:17No.
21:18Do you admit to the first incident?
21:19I didn't do anything wrong.
21:21Just answer him.
21:23Yes.
21:25It happened.
21:26OK?
21:27Janine, what have you done?
21:29That was different.
21:30It was completely different.
21:32I kissed Mark, I kissed Greg, that's all.
21:34Did you say you wanted to try again?
21:36No.
21:37Mark went on about it, yeah?
21:39Did I want a threesome? Is that what I wanted?
21:41I said no, and you dropped it, all right?
21:44You said, if I told you the truth, you'd believe me.
21:48It's the truth.
21:51Greg says that he thought you were ready to have sex.
21:54Well, if you were, that changes everything.
21:56Not for real, no, I wasn't.
21:58Listen, they'll say that in court, won't they?
22:00About how this is what she's like.
22:02It's possible, yeah.
22:03That's not right.
22:04Janine, you put it on a plate for them.
22:07They grabbed me!
22:11I didn't mean that.
22:12You can't go until you're nice!
22:15That's what they said!
22:17They called it nice!
22:41My mum won't believe me.
22:43You know what I feel?
22:45Like they took something and I want it back.
22:48I keep playing it over my head.
22:59If you see pictures in your head,
23:02the best thing to do is imagine it's a car driving away from you.
23:07It gets smaller, doesn't it, in the distance?
23:09You mean push them away?
23:11No, don't push them away.
23:14Because you have to accept what happened to you.
23:17But you've got to make it small enough to deal with, you understand?
23:24How did you and Mark start going out together?
23:28He saw me at the pool and asked me.
23:32Did you know him?
23:34A bit from school.
23:36He was in the cool set.
23:39Why did you say yes?
23:41Because he asked.
23:44I felt safe with him.
23:47Now, if we go somewhere, he ignores me.
23:52Is that why you kissed Greg?
23:54Because Mark ignored you?
23:57We went to Waterloo one time to see DJ Mark Knows.
24:01He blanked me all night.
24:04Greg saw I was hungry and bought me chips.
24:07Greg noticed you?
24:10So you like Greg?
24:12No, he's no better than the others.
24:14They're all the same.
24:16If Mark says jump, they do it.
24:20Easy food.
24:21Fudge.
24:22What?
24:23Macaroni cheese.
24:24I can't eat that.
24:25What then?
24:26Dairy intolerant.
24:28Dairy intolerant, eh?
24:29I'm in training. I get guitar.
24:31The rest of the time I put out of it, but not before a competition.
24:33What's your sport?
24:34Diving. High board.
24:36Synchronised swimming in the air, innit?
24:38Don't knock it till you try it.
24:39You really good?
24:42Less than the club.
24:44It's a club and you're good?
24:45Yeah.
24:47Come and watch if you don't believe me.
24:49What's not to believe?
24:53Got anything else?
24:56Fish and chips?
24:57Fish and chips are too nice.
25:00Coming right up.
25:05Forensics from the Haven showed no sign of violence other than normal abrasions from normal sex.
25:09Lack of bruising is common, Gov. The victim cooperates out of fear.
25:12Jo, I'm not arguing. The forensics can't help us.
25:15What about the scene?
25:16Same there, Gov.
25:17Right. I spoke to the teacher. She disclosed to.
25:20And?
25:21Janine seemed more concerned with the video on the mobile than the event itself.
25:25As a further violation.
25:27What if she consented to sex but not the video?
25:30Do you really buy that?
25:32Well, I spoke to the CPS.
25:33We haven't finished interviewing yet.
25:35I spoke to the CPS. In their opinion, we need hard evidence or this won't run.
25:39Unbelievable.
25:41I'm telling you, Jo. No hard evidence. No charges.
25:47Banksy, do you really believe that this girl's distress is about some video images?
25:54We have to consider it.
25:56He's not saying consider it. He's saying throw in the towel.
25:59It's the CPS, Jo.
26:00Right. Well, if they want hard evidence, we have to find it.
26:04Sarge, when Mark Watts spoke to his father, did you hear their conversation?
26:09Only when he asked what nucleus was.
26:11So he didn't mention his mobile then?
26:13Sorry.
26:17Getting nowhere fast.
26:18Yeah, it's getting tricky around consent.
26:21Well, that must come as a shock.
26:24What's your impression?
26:26Of Watts?
26:27Yeah.
26:29Well, he's a top dog in his own little world, isn't he?
26:31You go head to head with him, it feeds his ego.
26:34He's pretty cocky about diving.
26:44Carry on. I'm here with our friend as the police.
26:54That takes dedication and discipline.
26:57Your club, is it?
26:59Has been for 15 years.
27:06It's not in Mark's make-up to do what he's accused of.
27:10No, I'm not saying what happened is pretty,
27:12but girls who get involved with athletes, sometimes they try and compete.
27:17Compete how?
27:19With the sport, attention seeking.
27:21Well, I heard her story. I think you're wrong.
27:24Am I? I saw what she was like with him.
27:26If he moved his gaze one millimetre, she was right there.
27:3017 years old.
27:32What boy says no to a girl who says yes?
27:35There's no phone. I found this.
27:37What's on that?
27:39No idea.
27:40OK, let's take that out of the bag.
27:42Now, maybe the girl doesn't regret it.
27:44Maybe she had too much to drink, but she did say yes.
27:48You can't know what she said.
27:50Yes, I can, because I know my son.
27:52Can we look in your office, please?
28:01Yeah, he's coming up nicely.
28:03Is he as good as Mark?
28:05He's got the raw talent. If he directs it right, he'll be even better.
28:09But this rubbish can pay to that, for all of them.
28:12Which one's your office, Mr Watson?
28:14His phone's not there.
28:16Which one's your office?
28:36What's happened?
28:37I want to stop. I can't do this.
28:39Someone rang the house and called her a liar.
28:42Do you know who it was?
28:43No.
28:44I took the phone. There was a woman on the other end.
28:46She said it was a slut.
28:49I can't deal with this.
28:53OK, listen to me.
28:55What those boys did was wrong.
28:57The telephone call, it's wrong.
28:59These boys are running scared.
29:01They want you to drop the case. Don't do it.
29:03Don't do it, OK?
29:04Let us do this on your behalf. We can get these guys.
29:06I promise you.
29:16Seven.
29:17Are you blind?
29:18Approach and entry, both terrible.
29:20Five max. More like a 4.5.
29:23The victim wants to drop it.
29:26Terry's just told me.
29:28Terry, what's going on with Janine?
29:30Someone rang her up and called her a slut.
29:32I don't think that's the problem.
29:33What is?
29:34I think it's the mother.
29:36She's not giving her the support she needs.
29:37Now she either blames herself or blames the kid.
29:39I'm not sure which.
29:40Right.
29:41I take it you told the boss.
29:43Take that right.
29:45No new evidence, no charges.
29:47Especially given Terry's input.
29:49We haven't had the full 24 hours yet.
29:50To do what? You're at the end of the line.
29:52To get this to go to court, you need a flat-out confession.
29:54So we'll get one.
29:55How?
29:56There is nothing in here that suggests
29:57that Mark Watts was suddenly confessed.
29:59Nothing.
30:00Then we'll go after Holbrook.
30:02And why would Holbrook suddenly spill it?
30:04I can't say if we're not allowed to try.
30:06But until we do, we can't say hand on heart
30:08that we did our best.
30:10We need the full 24 hours, Gov.
30:12She deserves it.
30:15He's got eight hours rest time,
30:17so you get two hours in the morning.
30:18That's it.
30:19Thank you.
30:21You better deliver.
30:24So what the hell was that, Jo?
30:26You think we've got a choice?
30:28You said we'd get a confession.
30:30So what's the plan?
30:32I haven't got one.
30:34But I'm not going to let her down.
30:37When we were at the haven,
30:38you told me that someone said that you'd never be believed.
30:41Mark walked me to the bus.
30:43He said what we did was so wild,
30:45he couldn't believe it.
30:47So, he was glad he hadn't.
30:51You know what about Janine?
30:53She'll do anything with anyone.
30:54Janine wanted to know what it would be like,
30:56more than one guy.
30:57Mark said she'd do anything,
30:59said she never says no.
31:01And she didn't.
31:03This isn't the first.
31:04This was her idea.
31:05She kissed me.
31:06That's the point.
31:07It was the night.
31:08Janine was with us,
31:09like, kissing Mark on the neck and stuff.
31:11It was the night.
31:12I didn't say anything.
31:13Neither did he.
31:15For my sake.
31:16For my reputation.
31:18For my sake.
31:19For my reputation.
31:20This was her idea.
31:21She kept kissing me really slowly,
31:23to see how far she could go.
31:25Mark gives us a nod and then we go for it.
31:27It didn't feel right.
31:28Mark said, if it's a threesome you want, you can have it.
31:30This isn't the first time.
31:32The way that she looked at me,
31:33it was like anything could have happened.
31:34He said he could do what he liked.
31:36I don't remember what he said.
31:37You were nice to me.
31:39Don't go telling nice to the others.
31:41This was her idea.
31:44Morning.
31:45Morning.
31:46Early start?
31:47You could say that, yeah.
31:50So, do we have a strategy, then?
31:52I hope so, yeah.
31:54What is it?
31:55I'm still working on the finer details, to be honest.
32:02Have some caffeine.
32:04Looks like you need it.
32:14How did you know she was willing?
32:17Because of how she responded.
32:19How she was.
32:21Okay, so tell us, how was she?
32:24Responding.
32:25Active.
32:27But then, if that's true, why did you need to hold her wrist?
32:33You did hold her wrist.
32:35Is it true that for holding her wrist,
32:36he can be charged with rape?
32:38Mum.
32:39Is it true?
32:40Conspiracy as chargeable as the same thing.
32:42As chargeable as the same offence.
32:44Did you hold her wrist?
32:45Don't answer.
32:46Hey, I'm looking out for you.
32:47That is what I'm here for.
32:48You don't answer.
32:49Greg, did you hold her wrist?
32:52No, I didn't.
32:54I held her hand to make her feel okay.
32:57Okay.
32:58I'm Janine, you're you.
33:00You show me, yeah?
33:13But that's not holding hands, that's restraint.
33:15No.
33:16See, before you came back in the room,
33:17did you know that Mark told her that she couldn't leave?
33:19If I wasn't there, how could I?
33:21She wanted to leave, Greg.
33:22And he slapped her.
33:26If that's what someone else did, you don't answer.
33:29I don't know if he did or if he didn't.
33:31Well, Janine says that he did.
33:32That girl will say he'll do anything.
33:33Mrs Holbrook, please, you're obstructing the interview now.
33:35You're wrong.
33:36Believe me, I know that kind of girl.
33:38Mrs Holbrook.
33:39She's not a kind of girl.
33:40She's just normal.
33:41No, her lies are the reason you're in here.
33:43That's not normal, that's twisted.
33:45Say interview suspended at 0804.
33:48You are obstructing this interview,
33:50and I'm not doing it with you in here.
33:53Well, the mothers are coaching from somewhere
33:55because Ben heard her talking to the Watts family.
33:57We can't stop that.
33:58But she's not qualified to say don't answer.
33:59She's not a solicitor.
34:00Well, she's going to insist on one now, isn't she?
34:05Where is she?
34:06She's waiting in the front office.
34:12May I speak to DC Perkins, please?
34:15Your name is?
34:16Carol Clark.
34:19Hey, I've got Carol Clark in the front office for you.
34:21You carry on like this, and I want my son to have a lawyer.
34:24What are you staring at?
34:25You.
34:29You rang my house.
34:32You called my daughter a slut.
34:34Don't touch me.
34:35I'm Janine's mum.
34:36Who are you, anyway?
34:38Don't touch me.
34:39I'm Janine's mum.
34:40Who are you? Is Mark your son?
34:42No, my son didn't do a thing.
34:43All he's accused of is holding her wrist.
34:46Did you see that? She nearly hit me.
34:48Through there.
34:52Go in there.
34:54Her voice.
34:55I recognised her voice.
34:57You're sure about that?
34:58She said, you carry on like this.
34:59She said it the same.
35:01All right, well, I'll look into it.
35:02All he's accused of is holding her wrist.
35:05Did you hear that?
35:08Carol, why are you here?
35:11To tell you to stop pushing my daughter, OK?
35:14She can't cope.
35:15She can if you support her.
35:16I am trying to protect her.
35:19Carol, your daughter came to me asking me for my help.
35:23It's your help she needs the most.
35:30I can't talk to her about this again.
35:35I don't know how.
35:39Ask her and listen to what she has to say.
35:57If we continue without your mother, do you want a solicitor?
36:01That's like saying I've done something.
36:03Mark Watts has got one.
36:04I'm here on my account, not his.
36:08I don't want a solicitor.
36:09I didn't do anything.
36:14Jo.
36:16Leon says you found something during the search.
36:18Yeah, it was camcorder footage of diving.
36:21Any objections to me taking a look?
36:23Absolutely not.
36:38Not much to it, is there?
36:41No.
36:42We can see how much it matters to him that he's the boss.
36:45To Mark?
36:46Yeah.
36:47He belittles the rest of them.
36:49Rewind it.
36:52Yeah, there, there.
36:58Even when he wins, he's having a proper go.
37:01You can see it on his face.
37:08What's it like being Mark's friend, Greg?
37:12What?
37:13Well, you know, is he generous or is he funny?
37:16Is he a good listener?
37:17What about your diving? You're a good diver.
37:19You're very good.
37:20Does he listen to you there?
37:22No.
37:23He tells people what to do.
37:25He does what he wants.
37:27He lied to you, Greg.
37:28He lied to Leo and he lied to Paul so that you would do what he wanted.
37:32He controlled you and he controlled Janine.
37:34Janine?
37:40It happened like you said.
37:42He told us how it would be and it was.
37:44No, but I've heard his version.
37:45No, I want yours.
37:46What did you see?
37:48What did you feel?
37:50I'll give you three hints.
37:51You didn't join in, you held her hand and you looked after her when it was over.
37:59Who said that?
38:00Janine.
38:01Now, that tells me that you knew it was wrong
38:03and I think you knew it was wrong when you walked in that room.
38:07No.
38:08Yes, you did.
38:09Something that she said or something that you saw.
38:13What did you see?
38:16Don't look away.
38:17Look at me.
38:19And tell me what you saw.
38:21She looked at you, didn't she?
38:25Someone that you like who needed your help.
38:27What was in her eyes?
38:32She was afraid.
38:35Of what?
38:38All of us.
38:41She wanted to go.
38:43But Mark said no.
38:45She couldn't until she'd been nice to everyone.
38:48All of you heard that?
38:50Yes.
38:51Why didn't you stop it, Greg?
38:56I should have.
38:59I should have.
39:02I know I should have.
39:04But he kept looking at me.
39:07And she was crying and he was doing his thing.
39:11And he kept looking at me.
39:13Why do you think it was so important to him that you watched?
39:16I don't know.
39:20Can I tell you what I think?
39:22I think he made you do something that you didn't want to do.
39:25You and Janine.
39:27And I think he was punishing you for what happened at his house two weeks ago.
39:34Mark got all of you to hold her down for him, didn't he?
39:37Yes.
39:38And Paul to video it.
39:40Yes.
39:41And he would have shown people.
39:43What do you mean, would have?
39:45Letting people see that.
39:46It's not right.
39:48None of it's right.
39:52Where's the phone, Greg? What did you do with it?
39:58I hid it.
40:09But he didn't know what he was saying. He's legally a minor, OK?
40:14You denied me proper access and you denied him a solicitor.
40:18He refused a solicitor.
40:22Aha.
40:23What's that?
40:28The phone they videoed it on.
40:34Look at these boxes.
40:36Yeah, you would say that.
40:41Get a face, get a picture of her face.
40:43Talk about it like she's not even there.
40:45All because she had the nerve to kiss someone else.
40:50Uh, so...
40:53Based on Holbrook's interview and the phone images, the CPS will charge.
40:57Yes!
40:59Good work, Jo.
41:01Thanks.
41:09Now it's...
41:12You're letting me go?
41:14You're being charged.
41:16What? Are you kidding?
41:18You're kidding? He didn't do nothing?
41:20I've seen what you call nothing. Greg had your mobile.
41:27Listen to him. He's jealous. Don't go by what he says.
41:31Jealous?
41:35Now why would he be jealous of you?
41:39Get her out of my face before I forget myself.
41:42Mate, you go for it. I'm not stopping you.
41:49No. Don't look.
41:54We're charging them now.
41:56All of them?
41:58Yeah. Greg backed up your version of events.
42:01Go on, I'll give you a lift home.
42:03I'll give you a lift home.
42:17Multiple charges of rape, false imprisonment, creating indecent images of a minor.
42:22Do you think the boy who flipped will stick to his story?
42:25Maybe. Maybe not, but he said it all on tape.
42:28Well, Joan Baxter did well. Especially Jo.
42:31And now she's passed the sergeant's exams.
42:33There's even less reason why we shouldn't stretch her.
42:37Look, Neil, if I was to nominate one officer over another, say Grace, for all the plum jobs,
42:44what would people say about me?
42:46You're the boss.
42:49They'd either say I was on autopilots or I had an unprofessional interest.
42:54Now, if you're on autopilot, you want to snap out of it.
42:57And if it's the other, don't do it at work.
43:17You OK?
43:23No.
43:24No.
43:26This stuff will mess with your head, it really will.
43:30You should speak to the people at The Haven, the counsellors.
43:34They're really good at what they do.
43:37Thank you for believing me.
43:43And remember, whatever's said in court, we know it was rape.
43:49All right?
43:52Can you say that to my mum? I can't talk to her.
43:55Yes, you can.
43:56She won't listen.
43:58Why don't you give it a try?
44:01Good if you were there.
44:03You don't need me there.
44:04Please.
44:09OK. I can do that for you.
44:13Come on, then.
44:21Come on.
44:33Amy! Amy!
44:34Oh, it's about time. I've wanted this man here for ages.
44:36Don't you see? He's stalking me.
44:39He was in her bedroom, using a toilet, toying with kitchen knives.
44:42What were you doing in her bedroom?
44:43We made love.
44:45I've never seen this man in my life.
44:48But a lot of the things that he told us about you are true.
44:50It does sound sinister.
44:51What's the crime?
44:52This isn't the Dark Ages.
44:53This isn't the Dark Ages, Sarge.
44:59Well, after the news, we attempt to get inside the mind of a man
45:02who's been described as Britain's worst serial killer, Peter Tobin.
45:06Real Crime with Mark Austin is at 10.35.
45:20Real Crime with Mark Austin is at 10.35.