clerk
  • last year
Transcript
00:00:00Good evening everyone and welcome to Caton City Council. This is our 13th regular session. We will begin this evening with a roll call.
00:00:12Roll call.
00:00:40I ask now all who are able to please stand for another prayer.
00:00:50Dear Lord, we ask your blessings on those who have been called to lead the community in which we live and work and play.
00:00:58Help us to not begin with how do we fix this, but instead to start with what do we need to learn, how might we need to change, and to whom do we need to listen.
00:01:12Remind us, because we all forget from time to time, that we are first and foremost servants and that it is our responsibility to serve the common good of all.
00:01:27Grant us the wisdom and courage to know and do what is right and good and true. May we speak out when it is time to speak out and listen with patience and respect when it is time to listen.
00:01:42May we always be guided by the spirit of our community and by the wisdom of your words. In this we pray. Amen.
00:01:52I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
00:02:05Okay, well, welcome again everyone. This time I'd ask for any additions or corrections to the minutes as they were provided to you, those minutes from June 24th.
00:02:28Anyone have any additions or corrections? Okay, if not, I'll stand and approve the minutes.
00:02:36As far as citizens requesting time to speak, we do have a few folks here tonight, no one on the agenda, but we still have plenty of opportunity to address the administration and council, and that will be toward the end of the evening, and I'll ask for comments from the public.
00:02:59So moving forward, communications, we do have the Hardin County Chamber of Business Alliance, I think we have a report from them, don't we?
00:03:12We'll get through all the minutes because some of us were very talkative for two weeks.
00:03:19But yes, we have their July report. I don't have any other communications, does anyone else?
00:03:28Petitions, we have nothing in front of us right now. I would just remind all council members, though, of the public hearing that we will have four weeks from tonight regarding the land the commissioners are asking for a zoning change out on Jones Road.
00:03:50So just be aware of that, study up on that, don't be afraid to ask questions.
00:03:56I actually did talk to a few of the folks involved the next day after our council meeting and learned some things.
00:04:04I would ask you all to do the same.
00:04:10Administrative report, administration reports, Chief Mosser.
00:04:15I just wanted to put it out there. I feel like I do this every year, several times a year, but we've had more vehicle thefts in the last year, year and a half than we've ever had.
00:04:33So if Mr. Thomas can put it out there as well, we'll put it out there on Facebook again.
00:04:42Please don't leave your keys in your car. Please don't leave your car unlocked.
00:04:46If you're driving a Hyundai or a Kia, it doesn't really matter if you leave the keys in them.
00:04:55Hyundai and Kia are working on that, and they fixed some of that problem there.
00:04:59But honestly, lately, the residents aren't helping us out.
00:05:05No matter what the car is, they leave the keys in the car that they would unlock.
00:05:08They'll steal the car here, they'll drive it to Ada.
00:05:10They'll steal the car in Ada, drive it to Wyoming, steal the car there, drive it back here.
00:05:13It's like a contest.
00:05:14And then they'll Snapchat it and upload it to Facebook, like some sort of competition with kids in different area codes.
00:05:21So I'm telling you, I'm telling everybody, if you're going to leave your vehicle unsecured, you're going to ask them for it.
00:05:31And we have to spend a tremendous amount of time in processing that car, impounding that car, pulling it out of a pond.
00:05:42It's very, very time-consuming and frustrating.
00:05:45So we're going to put that out there again.
00:05:50So that's all I've really got, I believe.
00:05:53Thank you.
00:05:54Thank you, Chief.
00:05:58Let's see if we have anyone here from the fire.
00:06:01So we'll go on to Mr. Castle.
00:06:03Tim, anything?
00:06:04Nothing new.
00:06:08Lynn, anything with economic development you'd like to touch on?
00:06:11Nope.
00:06:12I think you have the chamber report, economic development report in your packet also.
00:06:18We're continuing.
00:06:22Heritage Ohio Main Street is working.
00:06:24The new officers were put in two weeks ago or a week ago.
00:06:30Stephanie Kempen will be the president of that.
00:06:32And the next meeting we'll be working on budgeting and all that stuff.
00:06:40So again, if anyone wants to be a part of it, let me know.
00:06:47And I failed to mention, Chief Muster does have his May report in our packet.
00:06:51So please review that.
00:06:54All right, thanks, Matt.
00:06:58Daryl, anything on behalf of the auditor?
00:07:02We're aware that Dan is probably going to be retiring at the end of next year.
00:07:09The end of 25.
00:07:1125.
00:07:12So we're going to start working to know how soon we can get a replacement in here.
00:07:18So they can run it consistently, not have to struggle.
00:07:22Right.
00:07:23Get everybody hired.
00:07:25Right.
00:07:28That's it.
00:07:31Okay.
00:07:37Cindy.
00:07:38Just an update on the project.
00:07:40They started milling the road down today.
00:07:43They got certain areas you can walk out and you can see the bricks.
00:07:46That's kind of exciting.
00:07:48They got a few more water taps.
00:07:50They ran into some issues with the coal chutes with nothing supporting the front side of buildings along the block.
00:08:00So they're coming up with a plan on how they fill that area in and allow the business owners to shore up the fronts of their buildings.
00:08:13That's it.
00:08:14Any questions for Cindy?
00:08:16Lynn, anything more?
00:08:17I just want to touch base with our citywide cleanup and taking your brush out to the dump station.
00:08:29We got our second month bill and it's still actively, everybody's using it well.
00:08:36So let's keep it up and keep cleaning it up.
00:08:39And if you didn't get your vouchers, come up to the city building and get them.
00:08:45But so far, so good.
00:08:46It's working very nice out there.
00:08:52Okay, we'll move on to committee reports.
00:08:54Finance, there's a report in your packet.
00:08:56Finance also has a meeting scheduled for July 22nd at 6 o'clock before our council meeting.
00:09:05Is there anything Finance committee members want to add to that report?
00:09:10Nothing.
00:09:12Okay, then we'll move on.
00:09:14I don't think MOP has met.
00:09:17MOP has nothing.
00:09:18Public Utilities, you got a meeting coming up the day after tomorrow.
00:09:22Yes, we have a guest speaker coming in to review the water tower with us and what needs to be done.
00:09:33Streets and Alleys has a meeting in a couple weeks.
00:09:36Anything to report?
00:09:38Nothing so far.
00:09:40And Legislation, Codes and Regulations, a meeting on that same day on the 24th.
00:09:45Is there anything to report?
00:09:47No, nothing to do.
00:09:49Okay.
00:09:50Council Members, I'm going to just throw that out.
00:09:53Well, Steve, you usually have something.
00:09:56Actually, our meeting got moved to tomorrow, so.
00:09:59Okay.
00:10:00And BKP doesn't meet until next week.
00:10:03Sue, anything from the Trees Commission?
00:10:05They meet Thursday, the 11th.
00:10:07And they put out a list of the stumps that are going to be removed.
00:10:13Okay, I'll try to get those.
00:10:15Robin, Perks and Rec?
00:10:17No, I was out at a party that somebody rented.
00:10:22It was really pretty that night.
00:10:24And then Lynn and I went back out to get their glasses.
00:10:26They forgot after the pool was locked.
00:10:28But if you haven't been out to the pool, it's really pretty.
00:10:30It's clean.
00:10:31It's nice.
00:10:32And I think everything's well received this year, so.
00:10:36Okay.
00:10:38Whole business, nothing on the agenda.
00:10:40I guess I just wanted to, well, anything that we should be covering.
00:10:45New business.
00:10:47You all received an email today, I believe, from Cindy, regarding the Dominion.
00:10:56Oh, yes.
00:10:57The potential for a price increase from Dominion of 30%.
00:11:04Now, I was not aware of that.
00:11:08The only reason, I believe, and I think it was a good reason, Cindy said it on, was you actually met.
00:11:15You ran into someone from, do you want to talk about that at all?
00:11:20Well, I was at a meeting, Children and Family First meeting, and there was a representative from public utilities maybe she's from.
00:11:28Like for, it's on behalf of citizens.
00:11:33So she had a lot of information, but she did send me on where there are communities just passing resolutions or ordinances that state that they are not in favor of the rate increase.
00:11:47Just kind of trying to show, voice your, yeah, voice your opinions that we're not happy with.
00:11:56So that's why I sent it on.
00:11:58I don't know if we want to do that or not.
00:12:00That's why I sent it on.
00:12:02And there was even a sample resolution from St. Mary's that they passed.
00:12:08Now, the reality is, other than it would be something that you would pass if you so desired, and we would obviously want to share that with the Utilities Commission.
00:12:24Beyond that, it doesn't carry a whole lot of weight other than voiced.
00:12:28So I would encourage you to look at that.
00:12:31I don't know what our, what the comment period is.
00:12:36I would think that would be something you might want to think about at the next meeting.
00:12:42So please look at that email if you would.
00:12:44And maybe email, reply to, do a reply all, and if you think that's something you'd like to consider.
00:12:53By no means do you have to.
00:12:56Thank you.
00:13:01You sort of said halfway that there was a reason.
00:13:05Did they state why they were raising the prices in that email?
00:13:08That didn't come from the meeting.
00:13:11No.
00:13:12I mean, they were going through the proper channels of getting ahold of the Public Utilities Commission of Ohio.
00:13:21I mean, we can infer why they're raising them.
00:13:25Yeah.
00:13:26You just sort of half said, I didn't know.
00:13:28No.
00:13:29I don't know that other than by saying, I have not seen it.
00:13:34And I actually thought normally we received those.
00:13:38But I don't recall.
00:13:41I don't know.
00:13:42I can.
00:13:43I'll look and.
00:13:44I can bring it to the next meeting.
00:13:46There was other attachments on there.
00:13:47I don't know what the other.
00:13:48It was just a poster of.
00:13:53So this comes from.
00:13:58Dominion wants PUCO to allow a 30% rate increase for your natural gas service.
00:14:04This comes from the office.
00:14:07Probably at the Ohio Consumer Council.
00:14:10Just like we're doing here in town.
00:14:12Yep.
00:14:14But there we are in a comment period.
00:14:16But I do not know how long that is.
00:14:26So.
00:14:27It's pretty steep.
00:14:29Again.
00:14:32Don't need to do it at all.
00:14:33Just want to make sure.
00:14:39OK.
00:14:40Ordinances and resolutions.
00:14:41You can see we have a couple items for first reading.
00:14:44And then one for second.
00:14:47And you might notice the second item does have an asterisk.
00:14:50We'll get into that later.
00:14:51But.
00:14:52Start number one.
00:14:54Ordinance number 24-014.
00:14:58An ordinance changing the name of a portion of Silver Street to Wildcat Way in the city of Kenton, Ohio.
00:15:05Of course, that's the ordinance that was discussed.
00:15:09Fairly good length.
00:15:11Two weeks ago.
00:15:13Just up for a first reading.
00:15:14Any comments on that or any questions?
00:15:18Any opposition to reading that again in two weeks?
00:15:25Seeing no dissent.
00:15:26We'll do that.
00:15:27We'll read that again in two weeks.
00:15:30For the second read.
00:15:33All right.
00:15:35Ordinance number 24-015.
00:15:39An ordinance providing for additional appropriation for the year 2024 for the city of Kenton, Ohio.
00:15:46And declaring an emergency.
00:15:48And this we do want to get moving on.
00:15:51If we can tonight.
00:15:52We do have the numbers.
00:15:53We do have the numbers to do that.
00:15:55I believe the major issue here.
00:15:58Well, both.
00:16:01We got run short of chemicals.
00:16:04And I don't know what we do with those.
00:16:10Oh, it's the appropriation.
00:16:13It's a gift.
00:16:14It was a gift.
00:16:16For the disc golf.
00:16:18They got benches.
00:16:20All this money.
00:16:21We just need to appropriate it.
00:16:22So that is a gift.
00:16:24We got to appropriate it.
00:16:26A little controversy there.
00:16:27Swimming pool chemicals.
00:16:29We need to clean it.
00:16:32We kind of.
00:16:33We went off last year.
00:16:34We had extra last year.
00:16:37This year.
00:16:39The pool guy.
00:16:40We deal with opiate aquatics.
00:16:41His name is Matt.
00:16:43And he's done this very well.
00:16:45But in this year's climate with the super hot temperatures.
00:16:49And then the heavy rains.
00:16:50And this messes with the water.
00:16:52Also, it's something that I need.
00:16:54Council to kind of.
00:16:56Keep in the middle of your brain.
00:16:58Not in the back.
00:16:59And not in the forefront.
00:17:00But.
00:17:01The filtration system.
00:17:03Is sand.
00:17:04Based.
00:17:05On big kettles.
00:17:06And.
00:17:08They're original.
00:17:09And that's original sand.
00:17:11So.
00:17:12We probably need to really start looking at.
00:17:15A new.
00:17:16Filtration system.
00:17:17And the consensus is kind of.
00:17:19We'll go through more chlorine.
00:17:20Because it's probably just needs.
00:17:22And.
00:17:23They're not at the point where you can.
00:17:25Put new sand in.
00:17:27So.
00:17:29That's kind of reason that we've used more.
00:17:31It's basically liquid chlorine.
00:17:33That we're going through.
00:17:34But.
00:17:35That's the reason why.
00:17:36We went through more chlorine.
00:17:38Than we did.
00:17:39Last year at this time.
00:17:40So.
00:17:42Just to give you an explanation on the why.
00:17:45And if you recall.
00:17:46We talked about the sand.
00:17:49In the winter.
00:17:50Maybe.
00:17:51There was.
00:17:52At one point.
00:17:53We thought.
00:17:54We were even going to be told then.
00:17:55You're going to have to do something now.
00:17:56And then.
00:17:57I think they.
00:17:58Looked at it a little further.
00:17:59And decided you can wait a year or two.
00:18:01Okay.
00:18:02That's something we need to keep.
00:18:04Thinking about.
00:18:06Okay.
00:18:07So.
00:18:08With that.
00:18:09I would ask.
00:18:10Council.
00:18:11Consider.
00:18:12Suspending the rules.
00:18:14Go ahead.
00:18:15I'll.
00:18:16I move.
00:18:17To suspend.
00:18:18The three-week rule.
00:18:19For ordinance.
00:18:20Number two.
00:18:21Four.
00:18:22Zero.
00:18:23One.
00:18:24Five.
00:18:25Thanks.
00:18:26Sue.
00:18:27I will.
00:18:28Seconded by.
00:18:29Peg.
00:18:30No discussion.
00:18:31So.
00:18:32We'll go ahead and vote.
00:18:33Yes.
00:18:34Yes.
00:18:35Yes.
00:18:36That.
00:18:37Passes.
00:18:38Six.
00:18:39Zero.
00:18:40That's enough.
00:18:41To.
00:18:42Suspend rules.
00:18:43I can entertain a motion.
00:18:44I still move.
00:18:45I'll second.
00:18:46Thanks Robin.
00:18:47Thanks Steve.
00:18:48Is there any discussion.
00:18:49Okay.
00:18:50Let's go ahead and vote on that.
00:18:51Steve Walter.
00:18:52Yes.
00:18:53Chad Miller.
00:18:54Yes.
00:18:55Hey.
00:18:56Yes.
00:18:57Yes.
00:18:58Yes.
00:18:59Yes.
00:19:00Yes.
00:19:01Yes.
00:19:02Yes.
00:19:03That.
00:19:04Passes.
00:19:05Six.
00:19:06Zero.
00:19:07Five.
00:19:08Seven.
00:19:09One.
00:19:10If I can ask.
00:19:11Those.
00:19:12Kettles.
00:19:13How much do they usually run.
00:19:14I think.
00:19:15That.
00:19:16Whole.
00:19:17System.
00:19:18Is obsolete.
00:19:19I realize.
00:19:20So.
00:19:21Now.
00:19:22They're.
00:19:23Smaller.
00:19:24Kettles.
00:19:25So.
00:19:26To speak.
00:19:27So.
00:19:28Then.
00:19:29You.
00:19:30Do.
00:19:31You.
00:19:32Show.
00:19:33Yes.
00:19:34I.
00:19:35We.
00:19:36Do.
00:19:37Have.
00:19:38No.
00:19:39Idea.
00:19:40We.
00:19:41Do.
00:19:42Have.
00:19:43No.
00:19:44Idea.
00:19:45We.
00:19:46Do.
00:19:47A.
00:19:48Idea.
00:19:49We.
00:19:50Do.
00:19:51We.
00:19:52Do.
00:19:53We.
00:19:54I.
00:19:55Do.
00:19:56I.
00:19:57Do.
00:19:58We.
00:19:59Do.
00:20:00that's regarding the roundabout.
00:20:03We're not, we're not in public comment yet.
00:20:05We're not in public comment yet.
00:20:09I mean, this is a point of order, Mr. President.
00:20:13This is a 75-year-old project on a 180-year-old nuisance.
00:20:20It's supposed to be 94 seconds.
00:20:21We're not even talking about the roundabout yet.
00:20:23We're talking about the school, the legislation.
00:20:27Oh, I'm sorry.
00:20:28I'll hop in after that.
00:20:29Yes, yes.
00:20:30I'm not trying to stop you.
00:20:31I'm going to keep things.
00:20:32OK.
00:20:33Thank you.
00:20:33So the second reading is regarding, well,
00:20:41she hasn't even read it yet.
00:20:42That's my point.
00:20:43Oh, I wanted to say something before she read it.
00:20:46Well, we're going to read it to put it in front of everyone.
00:20:51And then we'll ask any questions.
00:20:55All she's doing is reading the title of the ordinance.
00:21:00So it hasn't even been introduced in the second reading yet.
00:21:04It's what we're going to do right now.
00:21:06So what should I jump in to it?
00:21:08Well, let's let her read it.
00:21:10I mean, typically, we would not take comment.
00:21:14We'd have you make your comment when it's
00:21:16time for comments from the public.
00:21:19Which one should I have them do, sir?
00:21:22You can do it.
00:21:23You can do it when you get them.
00:21:24So let's let her read it.
00:21:25Let's get it out there in front of everybody.
00:21:27Thank you, sir.
00:21:28Go ahead.
00:21:29Ordinance number 24-013, an ordinance authorizing
00:21:34the city of Canton, Ohio to enter into a highway improvement
00:21:38project with the Ohio Department of Transportation
00:21:41and declaring an emergency.
00:21:43So this is basically the first time two weeks ago.
00:21:46Council, do I have any questions or any new developments
00:21:49from the administration?
00:21:51OK.
00:21:52And then, sir, you have a point you'd
00:21:54like to make about this legislation.
00:21:56Do I?
00:21:57Yes.
00:21:58Do I go up there and introduce myself?
00:22:00Yes.
00:22:01OK.
00:22:02That would be best.
00:22:03All right.
00:22:16Hello, everybody.
00:22:17Can you hear me OK?
00:22:20My name is Thad Gardner.
00:22:21I'm a lifetime resident of Canton, Ohio.
00:22:24I think we all know each other.
00:22:27And we're all here because we love our hometown.
00:22:31And there's a problem here with your legislation.
00:22:42We have new public information that
00:22:47says this is involved with the railroad tracks.
00:22:52The RFQ said no railroad tracks.
00:22:57The difference between the railroad tracks
00:22:59and no railroad tracks, you can do whatever you
00:23:01want when there's no railroad tracks.
00:23:03But since there's railroad tracks,
00:23:04you have to go to this first.
00:23:06You're using federal money on a federal railroad crossing
00:23:09on a federal highway.
00:23:14I haven't rehearsed this, so please bear with me.
00:23:18This changes everything.
00:23:22This is the first public acknowledgment from ODOT
00:23:24that the railroad tracks exist.
00:23:29And the RFQ, I think it came from ODOT.
00:23:36It wasn't from anybody here.
00:23:40They indicated that there's no railroad crossing involvement.
00:23:43That is false and misleading.
00:23:45There is a railroad crossing down there.
00:23:47There is two railroad crossings down there.
00:23:54Quick question.
00:23:56Is anybody intimately acquainted with this document?
00:24:00Sir, we can't see what's wrong with that.
00:24:02It's a city of Canton safety study dated February 23rd,
00:24:062023.
00:24:07It's the first safety study, yeah.
00:24:10What happened to this?
00:24:13What happened to it?
00:24:14Yeah, what happened to it?
00:24:15We use that on a regular, well, I'm
00:24:18not going to say a regular basis.
00:24:23Well, it doesn't say anything about the railroad tracks
00:24:27in here or any railroad crossings.
00:24:29How can you have a safety study that ignores
00:24:32the railroad crossings?
00:24:34It's the most dangerous thing in town.
00:24:36You've got Durreds and the railroad tracks.
00:24:39Anybody ever heard of East Palestine, Ohio?
00:24:42You could blow the whole town off the map
00:24:44if you screw this up.
00:24:46We need to have the finest of engineering on this situation.
00:24:49We can't have false and misleading statements
00:24:51that this is based on.
00:24:53There are railroad tracks down there.
00:24:55Does anybody disagree?
00:24:59Well, to say there's no railroad tracks in there
00:25:01is false and misleading.
00:25:02And to use false and misleading information
00:25:04to get federal money.
00:25:06Some people call it fraud.
00:25:08Some people call it theft.
00:25:10It's not up to me.
00:25:12I know nobody in here did anything wrong as far as that
00:25:15because it all comes from ODOT District 1.
00:25:18This is their scandal.
00:25:19Don't bring it here.
00:25:20They have to straighten this out.
00:25:25Pat, can I ask you a question?
00:25:27Anything, sir.
00:25:28So like in your research, as you kind of
00:25:32mentioned the railroad crossing, I
00:25:35don't see the railroad crossing as going
00:25:37through the roundabout.
00:25:39So what is the proximity you're kind of basing
00:25:42your involvement on it?
00:25:43How close does it need to be or not be?
00:25:46Do you have them numbers as far as 1,000 feet, 500 feet?
00:25:50What are you basing them on?
00:25:52ODOT has to go through this process if there's railroad.
00:25:55They're going to order those railroad crossings.
00:25:57They have to do this.
00:25:58But how are they ordering the railroad crossing?
00:26:01That's my question is.
00:26:03We're all aware the railroad.
00:26:04They're going to build a roundabout a couple hundred
00:26:06feet from two active railroad crossings.
00:26:08And it's going to be fed from the south
00:26:10by the Mount Victory railroad crossing.
00:26:12There are hundreds and hundreds of vehicles
00:26:14in those traffic queues from Mount Victory
00:26:15that come through Kenton.
00:26:16No one's looked at it.
00:26:18No one's looked at the southbound railroad crossing
00:26:20queues.
00:26:21No one.
00:26:22Well, they did look at the Espy Street intersection.
00:26:25I mean, this roundabout's being fed
00:26:27by three active railroad crossings
00:26:29and the worst intersection in the county.
00:26:32And I don't think anybody's done this on purpose
00:26:35in criminal activity.
00:26:36This is a mistake.
00:26:38People have done this engineering remotely.
00:26:42No one noticed the railroad tracks.
00:26:44TRC did not notice the railroad tracks
00:26:46until the day of the public meeting on November 16.
00:26:57Well, if you're going to vote on this legislation that's
00:27:00based on false and misleading information,
00:27:03there's nothing I can do about it.
00:27:05First of all, nothing in the legislation
00:27:07is false and misleading.
00:27:09The RFQ has false and misleading information.
00:27:12The RFQ is not a part of the legislation.
00:27:15The legislation is just to take the first step
00:27:18to come to an agreement.
00:27:20Well, what you're going to do is get tangled up in this mess
00:27:23and PUCO or the Highway Rail Commission
00:27:26or the Federal Highway Administration
00:27:28or the Federal Railroad Administration
00:27:29is going to shut it down because there's
00:27:31been no one.
00:27:38I'm totally disorganized.
00:27:40I've not talked like this in public for 19 years.
00:27:44Well, just take your time.
00:27:46But this is so important.
00:27:48This is so important.
00:27:49This is what kills kids, dangerous railroad crossing.
00:27:52People, I cannot believe that they
00:27:54ignored the railroad crossings.
00:27:55TRC ignored it.
00:27:56The feasibility study, they ignored the railroad crossings.
00:27:59It's not feasible to build it down there.
00:28:05If you don't believe me, bring the feds in and have them
00:28:08look at it.
00:28:09I'll tell you what, I've got a better solution.
00:28:16If I can find it here.
00:28:20I know it's in here.
00:28:23I know I brought it.
00:28:26Where is it?
00:28:28Right here.
00:28:29This is what a real traffic study looks like.
00:28:32This is for a town from Middlebury, Vermont.
00:28:34It's just like Kenton.
00:28:35It's beautiful.
00:28:36It's a beautiful, historic town.
00:28:38I don't know if anybody's ever heard of Middlebury, Vermont.
00:28:40But this is what a real traffic study looks like.
00:28:49My advice is to table this legislation right now
00:28:53and get answers from ODOT District 1.
00:28:57Bring their best in here to straighten me out.
00:29:02I'm more than willing to give my time freely
00:29:04to the city of Kenton to get to the bottom of this
00:29:06and do this as best as we can.
00:29:10And I'm available by email or telephone or right now
00:29:13if any questions anybody has.
00:29:15You've reached out to ODOT yourself, I believe.
00:29:18Oh yeah.
00:29:21Okay, but they're aware of your concerns, right?
00:29:25Yeah, they brushed everybody off.
00:29:27Anybody ask about the railroad crossing?
00:29:29Got brushed off.
00:29:30I've made six inquiries with them.
00:29:32Got brushed off on all of them.
00:29:34Except for this.
00:29:38There was a gentleman there that sent me this.
00:29:43And this is called
00:29:47the schematic plan of the railroad review
00:29:50dated June 6, 2024.
00:29:54Now that legislation that you're looking at
00:29:56was written before this was done,
00:29:58before they even knew the railroad tracks was there.
00:30:03The legislation doesn't go into the plans.
00:30:06The legislation's just to start
00:30:09whether we even want to go into a potential...
00:30:12Well, you don't want to get mixed up in this
00:30:13because you'll have to give the money back.
00:30:15You'll have to give the money back.
00:30:17Right now they're trying to make it so stick,
00:30:19they're trying to stick Cindy and Lynn with this thing.
00:30:21And they didn't do anything wrong
00:30:22and they're not going to get in any trouble
00:30:23as long as I'm alive.
00:30:24They won't be sticking Cindy and Lynn with anything.
00:30:27Well...
00:30:30Promise?
00:30:31Yeah.
00:30:37So, what more activity would you take
00:30:40with false and misleading information
00:30:42about the roundabout at ODOT District 1?
00:30:47What's the next step?
00:30:48Just ignore me and hope I go away?
00:30:51No one's ignoring you.
00:30:52You presented information.
00:30:54Do you want to add a couple questions?
00:30:56Yeah, I have a question about...
00:30:59No, I mean, you received...
00:31:00If you have a council member,
00:31:01you're going to ask a question.
00:31:03I want to know what happened to this.
00:31:05There's an alternative number five
00:31:07that's actually an elegant and an inspired solution
00:31:11that's been totally tossed in the trash.
00:31:13And it was the first step before the roundabout.
00:31:16The roundabout was a dream thing
00:31:19for 2035 traffic levels.
00:31:22The alternative number five was elegant
00:31:25and inspired a solution that I never even thought of.
00:31:31One-way couplets is the nickname.
00:31:33The rest of this is basically worthless.
00:31:36But that solution in there...
00:31:41That needs to be pursued.
00:31:42And besides, it was the first step before the roundabout.
00:31:45I think I read this report.
00:31:47That alternative number five was the first step.
00:31:51Then the roundabout had to be studied.
00:31:54The roundabout's never been studied.
00:31:58I believe it's actually in that report, but it's not.
00:32:00It is, but it's not been studied.
00:32:03There's no railroad crossing even mentioned in there.
00:32:07Fad, what is your...
00:32:08Let me ask you, what's your concern with...
00:32:10Are you more concerned with the vehicle-train interaction?
00:32:14Like what happened at Mt. Victory here,
00:32:16or the traffic backing up in the roundabout?
00:32:19I just want to understand what you're...
00:32:21I want to be fully aware of what...
00:32:23I'm concerned about dead kids in school buses, sir.
00:32:25Okay, no, I'm asking. I'm asking.
00:32:27Have you ever smelled a burned-out school bus?
00:32:30Have you ever been in an autopsy of a school kid?
00:32:33Have you ever talked to grieving parents?
00:32:35Let me ask you, what are you...
00:32:37Are you afraid the train's going to come while...
00:32:39I'm not afraid of anything, sir.
00:32:40No, I'm asking what your concern is.
00:32:43You guys are going to go ahead and vote for this
00:32:46knowing that it's false and incorrect
00:32:48and misleading information.
00:32:51They've already said they got you $7 million
00:32:53on that information.
00:32:55It's false and misleading.
00:32:56That could be a crime, it could be a mistake.
00:32:58We need to get to the bottom of it.
00:33:00I appreciate your passion on it.
00:33:02I just want to fully understand what you're
00:33:04trying to present, and I have a full understanding
00:33:07so I can make an informed decision for you
00:33:11Thanks for having patience with me, everybody.
00:33:13Because I've...
00:33:16Lynn and Cindy, we've known each other since childhood.
00:33:18They know my background.
00:33:20They know they have my credentials.
00:33:22Do you want to share your credentials with us here?
00:33:25They're in the building.
00:33:27They're in the building?
00:33:28Yeah, they're in the building.
00:33:30All my credentials, all my letters of recommendations,
00:33:33all my...
00:33:35Everything about my professional experience
00:33:37with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
00:33:40is in this building.
00:33:42That's what I was just thinking.
00:33:44Maybe you could give a real quick 30-second overview
00:33:46of who you work for and what your credentials are.
00:33:49Well, for four decades of highway safety,
00:33:53for the federal government,
00:33:55for General Motors,
00:33:58for all the car dealerships that vaporize here in town
00:34:02and in the county,
00:34:03whatever happened to them anyway?
00:34:05You can't buy a new car in Hardin County
00:34:07or a new refrigerator or a washer and dryer.
00:34:10You can buy them at Roots.
00:34:12Lumber.
00:34:13They sell refrigerators.
00:34:15Wow, I tried to buy a piece of wood there years ago
00:34:18and I never went back.
00:34:19They do.
00:34:20They sell them down there.
00:34:22And I don't know if they sell them at Uptown Furniture
00:34:25or not at Plants'
00:34:26but I know they do at Roots.
00:34:27I bought the last refrigerator in the county from him.
00:34:29He's a pretty good dude out there at Uptown.
00:34:31Yeah.
00:34:32But you can't buy...
00:34:34You can't buy new...
00:34:36There's two counties you can't buy a new car in.
00:34:38In Ohio.
00:34:40Finn County and Hardin County.
00:34:41Mr. Gardner, you've done a very good job
00:34:45of explaining your concerns.
00:34:48Well, do you have anything else beyond...
00:34:51Yeah, this roundabout's not ready for prime time.
00:34:55Not even close.
00:34:56They purposely...
00:34:58Either they accidentally ignored the river crossing
00:35:00or purposely did it.
00:35:01We have to get to the bottom of it.
00:35:03I think they did it by mistake.
00:35:05But others, they get wind of this.
00:35:07I mean, this is visible from outer space
00:35:08that the railroad tracks are there.
00:35:10And the RFQ, everybody can look at it and say
00:35:13they said no railroad tracks.
00:35:15But there are railroad tracks.
00:35:16That is a problem.
00:35:18They need...
00:35:19I'll tell you what.
00:35:20Bring Chris Hughes in here
00:35:21and him and I can sit here
00:35:22and we can hash it out
00:35:23whether the railroad tracks are there or not.
00:35:30Any other questions?
00:35:33Thanks.
00:35:35All right.
00:35:38I care about this town.
00:35:40I love everybody here.
00:35:42I know you all love this town.
00:35:43And thank you for having patience with me.
00:35:45Thank you.
00:35:46Thank you, Thad.
00:35:47Thank you, thank you.
00:35:48Well, I...
00:35:51I took 19 years off.
00:35:54And that's another story.
00:35:59He didn't say.
00:36:00That's what I was trying to hear.
00:36:01What he based it off of.
00:36:03No, about this.
00:36:04About this topic.
00:36:06I opened the door, so...
00:36:08I would have asked if you...
00:36:10You know.
00:36:11Treat me.
00:36:12I'll go ahead.
00:36:13Hang on just a second.
00:36:14Have you...
00:36:16We have not had a lot of discussion
00:36:18in several years on this topic.
00:36:20So I'd ask everyone to...
00:36:24As you've noticed, I...
00:36:26We try to give everyone a chance to speak.
00:36:29I mean...
00:36:32Not to pick on them,
00:36:33but to compare, like, to the school board.
00:36:35I don't say you've got to sign in
00:36:39and state your reason,
00:36:40and there's no interaction.
00:36:41I want Chad to ask...
00:36:43Mr. Thad.
00:36:44No.
00:36:45Chad.
00:36:46Chad.
00:36:47Mr. Thad.
00:36:48Chad's there.
00:36:51You can call me anything you want, sir.
00:36:53I can return a favor.
00:36:54I want Chad to be able to ask you a question
00:36:57and you'd better respond to a point.
00:37:00And there reaches a point where
00:37:02we can't go for a half hour for one person.
00:37:05So try to keep your presentation five minutes or under,
00:37:09and we may get a little interaction afterwards.
00:37:12Let's all try to let everybody say their piece.
00:37:16No, you're fine.
00:37:17So with that, Betty, if you want to come forward.
00:37:20Again, state your name.
00:37:23If you're a resident or not,
00:37:24then we'll go from there.
00:37:25Okay, my name is Betty.
00:37:26My name is Betty Augsburger,
00:37:27and I live at 660 North Gilmore Street,
00:37:30here in Kenton,
00:37:31and I know all of you as well.
00:37:33We all love the city,
00:37:35and this is very intimidating.
00:37:38I'd rather have questions, you know,
00:37:40us one-on-one.
00:37:41But anyway, I have talked to David Beasley,
00:37:43and I talked to Joel
00:37:45to get some of my questions answered.
00:37:47And so just on some of the public,
00:37:49I did see some questions about that.
00:37:51Does the public have an interest?
00:37:53And yeah, they do,
00:37:55but they're not really coming here as well.
00:37:58But I'll just bring some of what I have heard
00:38:01and some that you have already addressed.
00:38:03And yes, there is a concern about the railroad tracks.
00:38:06So thank you very much for bringing that.
00:38:08And maybe at the next one, possibly,
00:38:11if we could have that map of the roundabout,
00:38:15and somebody could walk us through
00:38:17of the traffic that's coming into Kenton,
00:38:20the traffic that's going south, you know,
00:38:24that are heading to that,
00:38:26and then we'll put that train on the track.
00:38:29That's where I'm hearing most of the concerns about.
00:38:32Not so much that it's a roundabout.
00:38:34A few of us are getting used to it
00:38:36now that they're on 309.
00:38:38But that's mostly what I hear people can't get,
00:38:41including myself, get an idea of that,
00:38:44because there are trains on that track.
00:38:46It's not like it's only every happenstance.
00:38:49There are trains on the track.
00:38:51I'm not looking.
00:38:52The accident is just that you get two or three semis
00:38:56on that roundabout.
00:38:58You have a couple of cars.
00:38:59You get a box truck.
00:39:01How is that when they enter into that roundabout
00:39:04and all the traffic is stopped,
00:39:06everyone's yielding,
00:39:08and how that's working with Main Street?
00:39:10It's just to get a visual of that, I think,
00:39:13is a hiccup.
00:39:15There again, people coming, going south,
00:39:18people trying to go north,
00:39:19just how all of that looks,
00:39:21what that looks like.
00:39:23Other people that I've talked about,
00:39:25they're really not taking this seriously.
00:39:27Most what I hear, the city will never go for that.
00:39:31That's the dumbest thing we've ever heard of,
00:39:33with all due respect.
00:39:35They're really not taking this seriously.
00:39:37And so my question from listening here,
00:39:40we just were talking there,
00:39:42if you guys pass this the next time,
00:39:46the next time it's red,
00:39:48then we're in, correct?
00:39:50Or you can still refuse to do it?
00:39:52I just want that clarification
00:39:54from what I was hearing.
00:39:56If you vote to go forward,
00:39:59then we're in this.
00:40:00Yes?
00:40:01That is incorrect.
00:40:02That is incorrect?
00:40:03That is incorrect.
00:40:07So why are we having three readings?
00:40:09I'm not being smart.
00:40:11I'm just, it's informational.
00:40:12There's multiple steps to getting in line for a project.
00:40:14And one of the first is to simply,
00:40:17and if we'd like to, I can get it out here.
00:40:31It's an ordinance authorizing the city of Kent, Ohio,
00:40:33to enter into an Ohio Improvement Project
00:40:36with the Ohio Department of Transportation
00:40:38to create an emergency.
00:40:41We would not have passed any fiscal legislation.
00:40:46There's no fiscal legislation.
00:40:50Okay, so this...
00:40:52So that would still have to come forward.
00:40:54That would still have to...
00:40:55Am I saying that it would be comfortable
00:40:57to look at ODOT a month or two down the road
00:41:00and say, when we get to that point,
00:41:03and say, hey, guess what?
00:41:05We decided no.
00:41:07No, it wouldn't be comfortable.
00:41:09But the point would be this.
00:41:11We have not passed the money yet.
00:41:14Okay, so that's...
00:41:15Now, I'm not the end-all, be-all here.
00:41:17Does anyone else have any thoughts on that statement?
00:41:22So then possibly they could do a study of the roundabout
00:41:26or those concerns of that with the traffic,
00:41:28with the railroad track,
00:41:31just to have that looked at again.
00:41:34I'm just throwing that out.
00:41:37Betty, do you think that...
00:41:39Is the thought pattern
00:41:42that the gates are going to go down
00:41:44and there's going to be cars stuck on the track?
00:41:46Not on the track.
00:41:48In the roundabout.
00:41:49You've already committed yourself
00:41:50to go in the roundabout.
00:41:54Let's just say...
00:41:56I can't see the roundabout locked up,
00:41:59but let's say the roundabout gets locked up.
00:42:03But it's not the concern
00:42:05that there's a car because of some backup
00:42:08is going to be stuck on the track.
00:42:10No, no, no.
00:42:12It's mostly that they're just thinking
00:42:14how you're all going up there
00:42:17and you've got yourself, like I said,
00:42:19a couple semis, box truck,
00:42:21you know, all that.
00:42:22You know what all goes through there.
00:42:24And I've worked downtown many years,
00:42:26so I know what all that traffic is.
00:42:28And that's not going to eliminate all that.
00:42:31I got that clarification, too.
00:42:33It will streamline things better,
00:42:35the new traffic lights.
00:42:36I'm getting that understanding,
00:42:38but it's to let the public know
00:42:41this is not going to change that downtown.
00:42:44Maybe it'll get traffic through better.
00:42:46I don't know.
00:42:47There again, it all goes with
00:42:49what's going to be looked at
00:42:51and what all can happen with that.
00:42:53But that's the main thing.
00:42:55Most, including myself,
00:42:56we're looking for something to help relieve that.
00:42:59There again, Joel and I have talked about that.
00:43:01That's not.
00:43:02But hopefully that will, you know,
00:43:05eliminate some of that
00:43:06or make better traffic flow
00:43:08with the new lights and all of that.
00:43:10So I hear all of that.
00:43:12It's just that if we could get an idea of,
00:43:15like I said, and I've seen it downtown
00:43:17with the traffic waiting to the south,
00:43:20traffic going to the, you know, south,
00:43:23all of that.
00:43:24We have that now, though.
00:43:26Right, we have that now.
00:43:27But I'm just saying with the roundabout, though,
00:43:31I mean, just to visualize that with yourself,
00:43:33it's one thing to be just in a lane of traffic.
00:43:36It's another, if you've committed yourself in there,
00:43:39those gates come down
00:43:41and then there you are between two semis
00:43:44or whatever, and you wait your turn
00:43:46and the traffic will go
00:43:47or whatever people yielding and whatever.
00:43:50I'm just saying that's more the concern
00:43:52I see people looking at
00:43:54and being that close to the tracks
00:43:56and waiting for that amount of time.
00:44:00Or I'm missing, so that's the other thing.
00:44:02I've had other people say,
00:44:03we must be missing something.
00:44:05That's the craziest thing
00:44:06to think of being on a roundabout
00:44:08and a train come on the track.
00:44:10I'm just putting that out there
00:44:11that the citizens of Canton do have their concerns.
00:44:14They honestly do.
00:44:16And if you want to look on Facebook,
00:44:19that's where I get most of my,
00:44:20but the comments when it was first introduced,
00:44:23we were told to wait till it first comes before council
00:44:27and then approach council with your questions.
00:44:30So that's, I appreciate having three readings,
00:44:33really do, so that the public can start talking about it
00:44:36because some aren't taking it really seriously
00:44:38because they don't see this really happening
00:44:41or maybe it will.
00:44:42It's educating, getting that,
00:44:44most of that information out there
00:44:46and possibly having an outside meeting
00:44:50besides here before the formality
00:44:53and taking up your time
00:44:56just to answer some of these questions
00:44:58that people are inquiring.
00:45:01So.
00:45:02I do just want to say, Betty,
00:45:04nowhere was anyone encouraged to wait
00:45:07until it was presented to council the first time.
00:45:10All right.
00:45:11Nowhere.
00:45:13I'll look back.
00:45:14I'll show it.
00:45:16I know exactly what I said.
00:45:18I know.
00:45:19And what I said was,
00:45:20it hasn't even been before council yet.
00:45:22Yes.
00:45:23There's a very big difference in the two.
00:45:25That statement raises.
00:45:27And I'm sorry if I'm misrepresenting there,
00:45:29but I wasn't the only one who perceived it that way.
00:45:32There was a public meeting
00:45:34that everyone was encouraged
00:45:37in any way we could think of to go to.
00:45:40And I'm sorry, I missed that.
00:45:41There was a public comment period.
00:45:43Sure.
00:45:44With ODOT.
00:45:45Now, to Mr. Gardner's point,
00:45:47I do not know exactly how ODOT went through
00:45:52any comments that were presented to them.
00:45:54Honest truth.
00:45:56I don't.
00:45:57That was ODOT.
00:45:59The public comment was to be made to them.
00:46:02So maybe to answer or bring up an answer to both of you,
00:46:07we are not traffic engineers either.
00:46:12So there does become a point
00:46:18where we have to rely on those individuals,
00:46:24groups, organizations through which we work with.
00:46:29And that's where we are.
00:46:32So again, I would say that the three reeds
00:46:37are required by the high-rise kids.
00:46:39That's nothing special we're doing.
00:46:41And we would do that anyway.
00:46:45But no, there was a public meeting.
00:46:48I'm not so certain what having
00:46:50another full-blown public meeting would do
00:46:54when we had a public meeting.
00:46:57I volunteered to talk with people one-on-one
00:47:00or one-on a group of people.
00:47:02And I think several other council members
00:47:04would be more than open to do that too.
00:47:06I have no problem doing that.
00:47:08And I'm not going to try to change people's minds.
00:47:10I'm simply going to go through the facts
00:47:13that we have been presented.
00:47:16Thank you for your time.
00:47:18If I may, I have a question.
00:47:22You can talk to her afterwards.
00:47:24I want to get through everybody that's here.
00:47:26And then I'll come back.
00:47:28He did make another public comment.
00:47:30Go ahead, Mr. Gardner.
00:47:31And I do need you to come forward.
00:47:33Please keep it brief.
00:47:35I will.
00:47:36I try to keep everything under three minutes.
00:47:39Anyway, what you're asking about, ma'am,
00:47:45is a computer simulation.
00:47:48Now, they do do traffic simulations
00:47:50of these roundabouts.
00:47:51I've seen them.
00:47:52I've seen a simulation of a roundabout
00:47:54with a single railroad crossing.
00:47:57Now, this proposed roundabout for Kenton,
00:48:01well, let me go back a second.
00:48:03This will be real quick.
00:48:04I'll be done.
00:48:05There are estimated 400 roundabouts
00:48:07in the state of Ohio, 20,000 roundabouts
00:48:10in the United States.
00:48:11None of them share this configuration.
00:48:14And it is too complex for ODOT's computerized
00:48:17modeling capabilities.
00:48:21Can we clarify one thing?
00:48:23Anything you want, sir.
00:48:25It's not two railroad crossings.
00:48:29It's two tracks, one crossing.
00:48:32No, there's two railroad crossings.
00:48:34There's a railroad crossing on Main Street.
00:48:36There's a railroad crossing on Detroit Street.
00:48:38And then there's the Mount Victory railroad crossing
00:48:40that's world famous, that feeds from the South.
00:48:42The Mount Victory railroad crossing is not,
00:48:45it may be material as far as train traffic and cars.
00:48:49It's not material.
00:48:50Car count.
00:48:51Car count, it's in there.
00:48:52But there's one crossing for this roundabout.
00:48:57And there's two.
00:48:58There's Main Street, and there's Detroit Street.
00:49:01This roundabout won't be on Main.
00:49:04Main will come into it.
00:49:06One of the approaches is on Main Street.
00:49:08No, it's offset.
00:49:09It's offset.
00:49:10It's three, not four.
00:49:12Oh, it's a loophole.
00:49:14OK, I got it.
00:49:15OK.
00:49:16It's not that big, but I want to make certain
00:49:18that there's not two railroad crossings.
00:49:20No, there's two railroad crossings down there, sir.
00:49:23For the last time, Mr. Gardner, there's
00:49:26one railroad crossing going through
00:49:29this roundabout.
00:49:30One.
00:49:31One, two.
00:49:32The other one will remain pretty much the way it is right now.
00:49:37Well, you're going to have to do the railroad crossing study.
00:49:43OK, I'm not disputing that.
00:49:46And that has to be part of the feasibility study.
00:49:49But let's be clear, the roundabout will deal with one.
00:49:53That's not true.
00:49:54That's not true.
00:49:55That railroad crossing cue from Main Street
00:49:57will go forth through this roundabout.
00:49:59That's my neck of the woods.
00:50:01Joe, you already said you weren't grabbing experts.
00:50:03I mean, it's a moot point as far as I know.
00:50:06It's a moot point?
00:50:07Yes.
00:50:08It should be used by study.
00:50:10I mean, there's still going to be a feasibility study after you
00:50:15guys go forward.
00:50:16There's still going to be a study.
00:50:18Not necessarily.
00:50:19No, I did not say that.
00:50:20I did not say that.
00:50:21I did not say that.
00:50:23I simply said voting this in is not the end all.
00:50:28We have not said we're doing it.
00:50:31It's not the end all.
00:50:32No.
00:50:33So there is going to be another?
00:50:35Well, there's multiple.
00:50:36There's legislation to commit funds.
00:50:40There's legislation to, oh my gosh,
00:50:43I've got to think of all this.
00:50:44There will be at least three more pieces of legislation,
00:50:47I believe.
00:50:48There will be legislation for construction contract.
00:50:52There will be legislation for each of those.
00:50:57Probably some more legislation on each of those two
00:50:59different funds.
00:51:02There will be multiple.
00:51:05I'm not saying there would or would not be further study.
00:51:08And I did not say that.
00:51:11I just simply said if council goes through in two weeks,
00:51:16reads it a third time, and votes on it, and passes it,
00:51:20it doesn't mean, oh, it's done.
00:51:22I'm going to start building them up.
00:51:23That does not mean that at all.
00:51:26Absolutely does not.
00:51:28Just the first part of, I can't,
00:51:31I would guess for phase two that we're working on now,
00:51:35I bet we had 12 pieces of legislation
00:51:38over a three-year period.
00:51:41Easy.
00:51:42Easy.
00:51:51Michelle Lovis.
00:51:53I'm a Kenton resident.
00:51:56So I don't know if, because I know you guys have said
00:51:59it's been in front of you for six months,
00:52:01the roundabout option, right?
00:52:05Well, not so much in front of us, but in the public
00:52:07for six months.
00:52:08The meeting was in November.
00:52:09The first meeting was in November.
00:52:11At a courthouse.
00:52:12Oh, okay.
00:52:13The public hearing was in November.
00:52:14Yes.
00:52:15Yeah.
00:52:16And then you had one public hearing for it?
00:52:19We had a public meeting in November.
00:52:21A public meeting.
00:52:22There has not been a public hearing.
00:52:25They didn't know about the retracted.
00:52:27Right.
00:52:28But you had the one public meeting in November.
00:52:31Correct.
00:52:32And then what was next on the timeline for official action?
00:52:38Are you asking about our presentation
00:52:42the administration gave us?
00:52:43Is that what you're asking?
00:52:44Yeah.
00:52:45You guys had a presentation?
00:52:46There were a couple different presentations.
00:52:49Presentations?
00:52:51Where it was presented to council?
00:52:53Yes.
00:52:55And then we're here to the legislation point.
00:52:58There had been multiple updates when we updated council
00:53:01that said we got funding for this, we got funding for that.
00:53:06I think we updated.
00:53:09Right.
00:53:11Status updates of where discussions were,
00:53:14what would be proposed.
00:53:16Yeah.
00:53:17You can go through all the meeting notes.
00:53:20I mean, they're in the minutes.
00:53:25But now we're at the first legislation piece, right?
00:53:29Yes.
00:53:30And so what you're saying is that
00:53:34this legislation piece gives you the ability to sign into
00:53:41a project with them.
00:53:43But what you're saying is that that project is not set in stone,
00:53:46although you said it's hard to change that.
00:53:50Because the further you go in, the harder it is to change.
00:53:53And if there's a missing piece,
00:53:57at what point do you go back and double-check that?
00:54:00What is the process to check a situation like that?
00:54:04Well, to give a small example,
00:54:07the coal chutes that they're dealing with right now.
00:54:10Nowhere were the coal chutes being a problem on the front of
00:54:13these buildings in the plans.
00:54:16I have to deal with that as they go.
00:54:18So the contractor on the job is trying to figure out a way to
00:54:20deal with that.
00:54:23But are you signing it for the...
00:54:25So the one thing, if you had the other option
00:54:29for the couplet things,
00:54:32that if you just...
00:54:36What's after this legislation piece?
00:54:38What's the next thing that's going to come to the table?
00:54:41I cannot tell you specifically.
00:54:43More than likely, it would be a contract for design.
00:54:47Okay.
00:54:50More than likely, it would be a design contract.
00:54:52And so that design would come in.
00:54:55You would have to approve the design?
00:54:59Or there's no approval of design?
00:55:01We actually approve...
00:55:03It's part of the contract when we go out to bid.
00:55:09And we would approve that.
00:55:14Right.
00:55:16And then we would approve the contract, the awarding of it.
00:55:21As far as approving the design, it's not...
00:55:25They sit at home and design this whole thing up
00:55:28and bring it in and say, here you go.
00:55:30It's an ongoing process where there's meetings
00:55:34and here's an issue and go back and change this
00:55:38and go back and change that.
00:55:40But it would be approved by not only ODOT,
00:55:44but the city of Kenton, too.
00:55:49Not to interrupt, but stuff like this,
00:55:53people take safety very seriously.
00:55:56So they will take their time on this.
00:56:00I can guarantee you that.
00:56:03So it's going to go at a snail pace.
00:56:05It's not going to be we approve this tonight
00:56:08or next time we meet.
00:56:10It's going to be way down the road
00:56:12before any of this even gets started.
00:56:18Fairly quickly.
00:56:20I guess I see this as an administrative issue for ODOT.
00:56:26So it's like if they're saying, oh, there's a railroad track there
00:56:30and they go back and they say, you know,
00:56:33they've checked with whatever that manual is and they've done,
00:56:35they go, oh, this is in compliance with railroad whatever, whatever,
00:56:40then have at it, right?
00:56:43I'm just saying, you know, it's not the round.
00:56:49Are all the ducks in a row?
00:56:51Like how are you going to know if all their ducks in a row
00:56:53and they've done their due diligence with the railroad?
00:56:55When does that happen?
00:56:58Not the design, you know, not going to the next design.
00:57:03You know, because it's like once you get into that circle,
00:57:06like you're going to go to all the next things.
00:57:09But, you know, it's a point.
00:57:12It seems like a simple, did you know the railroad tracks were there?
00:57:16Is it okay?
00:57:18Get clear enough first.
00:57:21It's like that with every project.
00:57:23We will go over that diligently with those railroad tracks.
00:57:26I can guarantee you that.
00:57:27We have gone over that.
00:57:29We have talked about it.
00:57:31Okay, Mr. Berger, you are not at the podium right now.
00:57:35I'm sorry.
00:57:37But you're obviously.
00:57:39I can guarantee you that ODOT is acutely aware of the city of Kenton's
00:57:44concerns with the railroad tracks.
00:57:47I can guarantee that.
00:57:48100%.
00:57:55I sailed roundabout through the middle of a railroad track.
00:58:00So to kind of touch on what Betty was asking about,
00:58:03kind of how the traffic would be on the roundabout,
00:58:05in my mind's eye, it's a three in and three out.
00:58:08In essence, like if you look at it in the perspective of where it's at now,
00:58:12Waterworks would be like the third in and out.
00:58:15Detroit coming down, like Detroit going up would be two entries, so to speak.
00:58:20Waterworks would be the third entry.
00:58:22If there was a train on the tracks,
00:58:24the traffic is going to stop on the north side of the tracks, obviously,
00:58:28so they won't be coming into the roundabout.
00:58:30Right.
00:58:31And the ones going north may get stopped in the roundabout,
00:58:34but the third leg of it,
00:58:36you just wouldn't be able to turn.
00:58:38You'd have to wait your turn for the traffic to go north.
00:58:41You would be able to go south.
00:58:42Yes.
00:58:43You wouldn't go into the roundabout.
00:58:45Right.
00:58:46I mean, so it's kind of the same traffic flow.
00:58:48I'm not even sure Waterworks goes into the roundabout.
00:58:52No, I'm just saying in a mind's eye.
00:58:53You said Waterworks.
00:58:54I think you mean Maine.
00:58:55No, no, like the Waterworks,
00:58:57like if it was the third leg of it,
00:59:00if you look how it is.
00:59:01North, Detroit, south.
00:59:03And then?
00:59:04And Maine coming across.
00:59:05The three legs.
00:59:06Right, right.
00:59:07The three legs are Maine, Detroit, Detroit.
00:59:09I'm just saying the way it kind of is now without the roundabout.
00:59:12If you wanted to go north and Waterworks.
00:59:15Oh, if someone was sitting there and a train came on the tracks.
00:59:17Right.
00:59:18You would sit on Waterworks and turn the train.
00:59:20Right, right.
00:59:21And it would be the same for the third leg of the roundabout.
00:59:23I mean.
00:59:24Oracles can, because we know our way around.
00:59:27Right, but there wouldn't be a semi coming from that direction.
00:59:30Semis are going to be north and south.
00:59:32They're not going to come from that third leg.
00:59:35But if you've got a semi going south, 68 coming in,
00:59:38you know, wanting to catch 31,
00:59:40they're going to end up at the roundabout for,
00:59:43is to go in there to catch 31.
00:59:45Yeah, 68, 31.
00:59:46Okay, 68.
00:59:47I'm sorry, I'm just asking.
00:59:48Okay, I know, but 68, I'm going north on 68 and I want to.
00:59:51South.
00:59:52South.
00:59:53Well, they're stopped by the railroad tracks.
00:59:54Yeah.
00:59:55They're stopped by the train.
00:59:56They're stopped.
00:59:57Traffic begins again.
00:59:58All right.
00:59:59You're waiting to catch 30, get on the roundabout.
01:00:02To go 31.
01:00:03To catch 31, but you've got, you know, 35 other semis coming down.
01:00:10But you're waiting to get on the roundabout.
01:00:13But they have to yield to that one that's coming south.
01:00:15Because we still yield the same way.
01:00:17I know we still yield the same way.
01:00:19That's why I'm saying if we could just have a look to walk people.
01:00:23Like I said, I know I'm missing something.
01:00:25That's why I'm here.
01:00:27That's fine.
01:00:28We're saying the same thing.
01:00:29And no one's saying not to put one.
01:00:31The location is the thing that's drawing red flags.
01:00:35When you have that kind of traffic, when it starts all up again.
01:00:38Like I said, you see it downtown.
01:00:40And I get that's why you want to do something.
01:00:42I totally understand that.
01:00:44But that's why we're trying.
01:00:46We're not seeing how that's going to remedy anything down there.
01:00:50When you've got all of that heavy traffic trying to go through this little circle.
01:00:56We're talking two semis.
01:00:58Maybe three carbs could.
01:00:59But maybe some of those guys.
01:01:01And I'm just throwing that out there.
01:01:03I'm not any.
01:01:04Like you guys.
01:01:05We're not.
01:01:06We don't know.
01:01:08So if we could just get a visual of that.
01:01:11And then all that begins again.
01:01:13Of them coming through and you yielding through to get through.
01:01:17I know how patient some of those trucks are going through town now.
01:01:21Let alone something like that.
01:01:24I'm just talking to you.
01:01:26And I know this is more of a formal thing.
01:01:28That's why I'd rather one-on-one with people.
01:01:31I don't have a clear understanding.
01:01:33And there's others who don't.
01:01:35And others have asked if there's a chance, a live presentation.
01:01:39We do a live stuff downtown.
01:01:41So maybe there could be a live presentation of the map.
01:01:45Like you said, it could be a computer generated thing or whatever.
01:01:49And how that could flow.
01:01:52Help answer me.
01:01:53We are visual people.
01:01:55I'm sorry for that.
01:01:56But sometimes you just kind of need to see it.
01:01:59I don't know.
01:02:00And it probably is going to work out all just fine.
01:02:04I would say go down to that one on 161 on Post Road.
01:02:09And see how that roundabout works with the traffic lights right in there.
01:02:13And once the traffic lights change, it's mass convergence on that thing.
01:02:19But, you know, the main thing we have to understand on the roundabout,
01:02:23the feasibility and the safety study,
01:02:25was our ask to get the turning trucks off of the square.
01:02:31And the best way and the most quickest.
01:02:33There's no reason to build something that they won't use.
01:02:37So this becomes the quickest route.
01:02:39So that's why they would go through it down south of here.
01:02:44We know we'll have east and west trucks still through.
01:02:46And we know we have some.
01:02:48And on the traffic study, it will show you the traffic counts
01:02:51on how many come south and turn east or west.
01:02:55We'll always have that.
01:02:57But the most dangerous spot is here and here.
01:03:02And that was what we were eliminating for the safety study.
01:03:07That's why I'm not a fan of the one-way.
01:03:10Because, again, if we're doing one-ways,
01:03:13you still have the same amount of truck traffic in the middle of town.
01:03:18And people are trying to cross roads with that same amount of truck traffic.
01:03:22If we move it to one side, this gets them through quicker.
01:03:27We hope to.
01:03:29You know, I mean, the whole thing would –
01:03:32Why would it not?
01:03:34I don't know. That's why I'm saying.
01:03:36There's something that I'm missing.
01:03:38We're replacing every line on Detroit.
01:03:45And for locals, like I say to people, then don't go through it.
01:03:49Oh, yeah, and I've had people tell me that.
01:03:52And we have to think this is – what we're looking at, too, this is –
01:03:57yes, it helps now, but we have to look future.
01:04:01And what is uncomfortable now,
01:04:03we have to see what could be very commonplace in the future.
01:04:08And I think the study went into 2040, 2045 on what they predict.
01:04:22You, Joe.
01:04:24I'm just –
01:04:26Folks out in the hall, do you want to join us, or are you guys –
01:04:30Are you guys good?
01:04:32They're good.
01:04:34Okay.
01:04:36Well, I do appreciate – I think we all do appreciate everyone's comments.
01:04:41I think with the railroad proximity, there's a couple things going on here.
01:04:48And I think what Mr. Gardner is getting into is more an aspect,
01:04:53and is there – has there been enough attention paid to distances
01:04:59from the roundabout to the railroad?
01:05:03I think, Betty, what you're getting into is how does roundabout work
01:05:07and does a railroad, regardless of distance, impact its ability to work?
01:05:14I mean, right now, when there's a train on the track, both of those roads stop.
01:05:19Right now, today.
01:05:21Train on the tracks, everything's done.
01:05:25From that respect, I don't see a roundabout working any different.
01:05:31I think where we're getting confused is you're saying,
01:05:34okay, this northbounder has stopped at the railroad.
01:05:38Railroad gates go up, the train's done.
01:05:41They start to come in, but we've got all these people coming –
01:05:44or the southbounder stopped at the railroad.
01:05:46We've got all these northbounders coming up,
01:05:49and they're going to clog the roundabout.
01:05:51You didn't say that. That's my word.
01:05:53You still have to wait.
01:05:56You still have to yield to whomever is next.
01:06:02The way I view a roundabout is it's four-way stop.
01:06:05You don't have to stop.
01:06:08Are we still in public comment?
01:06:10We haven't got public comment.
01:06:12No, we're still on our legislation.
01:06:15I think we're about done with it.
01:06:18I think everybody's got –
01:06:20everything you put in front of me is very valid.
01:06:25My only response, and I ask you to think about this,
01:06:29and I think you answered your own question several times tonight.
01:06:32How is, simply from the standpoint of traffic moving,
01:06:37how is a roundabout any different than what we have now?
01:06:43Train comes.
01:06:45Train comes.
01:06:47Gates go down. Traffic stops.
01:06:51Train comes. Gates go down. Traffic stops.
01:06:56Train leaves. Gates go up. Traffic stops.
01:07:02Anybody else on this topic?
01:07:08All right. Is there any objection to reading that again in two weeks?
01:07:13No, sir.
01:07:15Not whatsoever.
01:07:20We have nothing up for third reading.
01:07:22Any other matters to be presented at this time?
01:07:26Comments from the public?
01:07:32You had just asked if there were still any comments from the public.
01:07:35We're now in comments from the public.
01:07:38If you wish me to speak, I surely can.
01:07:43Michelle Wobbus, Ken resident.
01:07:47One of my concerns with this situation
01:07:50is I know that public are welcome to come,
01:07:54and we're welcome to speak,
01:07:56and we certainly want more of it to have the public involved.
01:08:01What I feel that I witness
01:08:04is a badgering of public comment,
01:08:10and it gets a little frustrating
01:08:12that we can come and speak,
01:08:17but then we have an editorialized version given back to us,
01:08:22which I think is a little unfair.
01:08:23I don't think that we should be trying to come to see it to your opinion.
01:08:33I'm speaking with Joel, for the record.
01:08:37When it's our public comment,
01:08:39we're allowed to say it's been heard, it's been addressed.
01:08:44We can all go home with our own feelings and ideas intact.
01:08:52Part of the frustration is,
01:08:54and I've seen it done to council,
01:08:56which I think is very unfair,
01:08:58that you are using a position of president of council
01:09:06to use it as a platform to speak to the council
01:09:11when I would like to hear more from them.
01:09:13I would like to hear their opinions,
01:09:15and yet we kind of have a drawn-out thing of your comments.
01:09:23It was a little much tonight because we're loud.
01:09:29We come up, and yes, you're very open.
01:09:31You let people speak for longer.
01:09:33I like that.
01:09:34I like that.
01:09:35It's a very relaxed environment,
01:09:38but I feel like it goes the same way,
01:09:41that it's like being president of council is to run a good meeting,
01:09:47not to use it as a platform for your opinions.
01:09:49So that's my public comment.
01:09:51Can I ask you a question?
01:09:56What part did I question?
01:10:00We can talk about it later,
01:10:01but really, this is my public comment,
01:10:05and it needs no retort, I feel, from the president of council.
01:10:10It's been heard.
01:10:11It's on record, and it's good.
01:10:15All right. Thank you.
01:10:22We'll just work on refraining from me responding anymore publicly
01:10:29because I don't have a vote,
01:10:31and that would be a smarter thing to do,
01:10:34and we'll go from there.
01:10:40At the same time, I do think,
01:10:43whether it's me or any council member or anyone up here,
01:10:45if we're not understanding what's said,
01:10:47we need to ask questions.
01:10:49That's what was done.
01:10:52That's what was done.
01:10:55Other comments from the public?
01:11:04Comments from the media?
01:11:14Comments from administration and other members,
01:11:18council members, we'll start with Tim.
01:11:22Tessa.
01:11:23She's missing.
01:11:27Sarah.
01:11:30Susan.
01:11:31I'd just like to thank everybody for their concern
01:11:33in coming up and speaking tonight.
01:11:37I agree with what Susan said, yes.
01:11:40As well.
01:11:41I appreciate the participation from the public
01:11:43and the voice in their opinions
01:11:44and questioning the validity of their concerns or whatever.
01:11:49I just echo that.
01:11:51Absolutely.
01:11:52I agree.
01:11:53I've probably been the longest person on the council,
01:11:56and we have brought this up year after year
01:11:59after year about tarp traffic.
01:12:02It's been a can that has been kicked down the road
01:12:04way too long.
01:12:07I agree with you, Betty.
01:12:09I was not a fan of roundabouts,
01:12:11but I know that roundabouts have saved people's lives
01:12:15and they've moved traffic a lot faster
01:12:17than what it moved before.
01:12:19We have to get the trucks off of turning on our streets
01:12:23or what we're doing now and everything
01:12:26is going to be destroyed again.
01:12:31There's hiccups in everything that is done,
01:12:34and hopefully we can iron out or come to see
01:12:38if the railroad has been addressed or it is a problem.
01:12:43But I appreciate everybody's comments.
01:12:46I really do.
01:12:47So thank you.
01:12:51Yes, I appreciate all the comments.
01:12:53Also, I'm one of the newest members,
01:12:55so I'm really willing and able to learn from you.
01:12:58And Joel, you've been here for a long time,
01:13:01and I think he does have some good ideas
01:13:04and he can direct us in the right direction,
01:13:06as can the rest of the administration.
01:13:11I appreciate everybody coming with their concerns
01:13:13because that's the only way that we can learn and grow
01:13:16as a community, and that's why we're all here,
01:13:19to make it the safest, workable, bring things to our city
01:13:25because we're behind the eight ball on a lot of things.
01:13:29But like Peg said,
01:13:31we're going to put all this money into our infrastructure,
01:13:34and the main thing is to have a safer downtown
01:13:37that's working, that people walk,
01:13:39feel safe walking and crosswalk.
01:13:41I help water flowers at night sometimes, take turns,
01:13:46and the amount of truck traffic is crazy.
01:13:50And it's like, I don't care if Chief Musser was sitting there
01:13:54and lined up with 10 cruisers,
01:13:56if they're going to hit that traffic light
01:13:58to try to get past Wendy's to go keep moving,
01:14:01they do.
01:14:02They don't slow down.
01:14:03So that's not safe either.
01:14:05So like these ladies said,
01:14:08we went to them and said,
01:14:09what do we do with our truck traffic?
01:14:11And that's how this all started.
01:14:13So this is where we're at now,
01:14:15and we all will have to adapt and change and learn,
01:14:18but everybody's concerns are things
01:14:20that we need to take into consideration,
01:14:23and I appreciate all your concerns.
01:14:24Thank you very much.
01:14:29Lynn?
01:14:30Nope.
01:14:31Okay.
01:14:33We do need to excuse Councilman Beasley.
01:14:38He needed to schedule time away tonight,
01:14:43so I'd ask for a motion to do so.
01:14:45Motion.
01:14:46Go ahead.
01:14:47That was Chad, seconded by Sue.
01:14:49Any discussion?
01:14:52Robin Jones?
01:14:53Yes.
01:14:54Sue Fox-Croker?
01:14:55Yes.
01:14:56Steve Walter?
01:14:57Yes.
01:14:58Kal Walker?
01:14:59Yes.
01:15:00Katie Wren?
01:15:01Yes.
01:15:02Tom McNeil?
01:15:03Yes.
01:15:04Next meeting, July 22nd, right here, 7 p.m.
01:15:13We do have a finance meeting before that at 6,
01:15:17and also the day after tomorrow, utilities meet here
01:15:23in chambers at 3.30.
01:15:25Beyond that, everything else that's scheduled
01:15:27is after our next meeting.
01:15:31With that, I also appreciate the public comment.
01:15:38Like it or not, I'm going to ask questions.
01:15:41And if I don't understand what you said, I'm going to ask.
01:15:44And if you don't like that, vote me out.
01:15:47Very simple.
01:15:49We need more people to run.
01:15:51We need more people to get involved.
01:15:54But I do take what you said to heart,
01:16:01and probably not comment very much in the future.
01:16:07Let council do the comments.
01:16:09Let council come up with questions.
01:16:13We are not engineers.
01:16:15So if you have questions that our engineers will hold us,
01:16:19that they have not had concerns with,
01:16:24then I'm going to ask about them to make sure we understand
01:16:30what your concerns are.
01:16:34If it reaches a point in time where I don't trust your
01:16:39numbers, you can get somebody else to do it.
01:16:43I don't know.
01:16:46I don't know how to do that.
01:16:49I suppose we could.
01:16:52I suppose we could.
01:16:58And I will say this.
01:17:02I think there's a lot of thought out there that there was no
01:17:08pushback locally, no questioning of ODOT locally.
01:17:12And I can assure you there were questions.
01:17:18Mr. Gardner mentioned, I believe I'm doing this
01:17:21from memory correctly, item number five,
01:17:24which were the one-way singlets.
01:17:26That wasn't even one of ODOT's original.
01:17:28We asked them to add it.
01:17:30It wasn't even in there.
01:17:32We said, here's one you need to add.
01:17:35And they added it.
01:17:37As far as their exact methodology of how they picked
01:17:41between the five or six different plans,
01:17:44I don't know that we have the specific line-by-line
01:17:48methodology that they used.
01:17:51But we can show you the grid, the analysis grids of how they
01:17:56arrived at which ones.
01:17:58In fact, I believe it's in that study.
01:18:00It is.
01:18:01It's right in that study of how they arrived at the decision
01:18:04they arrived at.
01:18:06The specific step-by-step methodology of the
01:18:09methodology.
01:18:11But what contributed from, you know,
01:18:15I remember there was cost, there was impact to local property,
01:18:20there was truck, feasibility of truck traffic.
01:18:24All those items were in there.
01:18:27And that's how they did that.
01:18:30So if someone wants a copy of that study that Mr. Gardner had,
01:18:35we can get that for you.
01:18:37I don't know if we have it on the webpage or not.
01:18:46With that, if there are no questions.
01:18:48Just for clarity real quick, I'm sorry.
01:18:50On Betty's topic, are we going to try and have some kind of
01:18:54illustration for the third reading on how the roundabout works?
01:18:58Can the public anticipate that not to, I mean,
01:19:01before we close up, just so there's clarity on what the public
01:19:06will be able to see at the third reading, I guess, is there?
01:19:09I mean, I don't know how to put up, I mean,
01:19:12we can put the map up, but we're going to have the same
01:19:14discussion, aren't we?
01:19:16As far as having a visual computerized thing,
01:19:21that will cost money.
01:19:23Yeah, we can't.
01:19:24Okay.
01:19:25We would not have that.
01:19:26I mean, we just didn't really answer that question.
01:19:28Yeah.
01:19:29I mean, I can.
01:19:30Talking about this.
01:19:31A computerized simulation.
01:19:33I know a retired IT guy.
01:19:35I could put him on the third father.
01:19:40I mean, I can ask ODOT if they have anything like that
01:19:43that's available for us in two weeks.
01:19:46I was just, I just wanted to kind of clear it up before we.
01:19:49I mean, I heard about it.
01:19:50Are you interested in that?
01:19:52I mean, maybe it's just public me out,
01:19:54and I'm not just a voice in the wilderness here.
01:19:57I mean, if you guys, are you interested in something like that?
01:20:00I mean, if you guys would have an interest in it,
01:20:03then I can make that happen.
01:20:05We can make that happen, no cost to the city.
01:20:08You can make what happen?
01:20:09Have a, I don't know the language.
01:20:13It uses the data that ODOT and the methodology that ODOT has
01:20:18to plan a roundabout?
01:20:20Not to plan the roundabout, to just show,
01:20:22like we have the map, but then you put some.
01:20:24Fake traffic going around.
01:20:26Yeah, but you would have to know the diameter of the roundabout.
01:20:29You'd have to know distances.
01:20:32I'm not looking at, if I'm looking at.
01:20:35I think some of the question is, I mean,
01:20:37you're into the third reading.
01:20:39I mean, it's not really the time and place to bring another public
01:20:43hearing or meeting about the roundabout.
01:20:46I mean, that's kind of a past day, right?
01:20:49I mean, you're kind of, you've already done that portion of it.
01:20:52Now you're too passing an ordinance and going into all the things
01:20:56that are going to build the thing.
01:20:58I mean, am I wrong in that thinking?
01:21:00That's what we've been saying.
01:21:02We have one more reading.
01:21:04Well, I know you have one more reading,
01:21:06but you're talking about having comments at another reading,
01:21:11not a constructive, let's rehash a roundabout.
01:21:16You know what I'm saying?
01:21:17It's not a big, you know, I can come up here and say,
01:21:21oh, I don't like it, and then you guys are going to vote one way
01:21:25or another, and it's going to be done.
01:21:27It's not a, it's not.
01:21:29It's kind of how the discussion phase with the public is,
01:21:34what my understanding is.
01:21:37So Chad was just asking what can we do to satisfy Betty's concern.
01:21:41Would that be helpful or not?
01:21:42I know.
01:21:43I mean, decide as a council whether it would be helpful or not.
01:21:46If you guys are all good,
01:21:50I'm just saying there's some of us in your wanting citizens' opinion.
01:21:56I'm one.
01:21:57I expected a few others tonight.
01:21:59It didn't happen, but that's okay.
01:22:01And just saying if you're not seeing that would help anything,
01:22:05whatever, then, yeah, we can let that go.
01:22:07But if you think it would be helpful, we can make that happen.
01:22:11I mean, talk to your precincts or your, you know,
01:22:15people are just, you know.
01:22:17Yeah, help me, Betty, what are you going to make happen?
01:22:20A public meeting happen?
01:22:21No, no, just a video.
01:22:26I think a simple model using our own data would be extremely dangerous.
01:22:32So then, Michelle, help me.
01:22:38You're shaking your head like I'm an idiot.
01:22:40What is it that I'm not getting?
01:22:42You don't have the real data, right?
01:22:46But to put together a generic simulation of a roundabout that's similar,
01:22:54you could do it, but you couldn't do it.
01:22:56You couldn't do a full-blown one.
01:22:58I understand that.
01:22:59So it's not a that piece is not going to work.
01:23:05And maybe it's not feasible.
01:23:10To Joel's point, if you just do a generic roundabout,
01:23:14it may show you things that aren't really going to happen in the real world
01:23:19without our true data.
01:23:21The end result will be misleading.
01:23:22Yes.
01:23:23I get that.
01:23:24I understand that.
01:23:26Have you gone through that roundabout at Mill Valley in Marysville on 31 South?
01:23:32I haven't had the pleasure yet.
01:23:34Okay, so you have traffic coming from the new Amerenway housing development.
01:23:40You have traffic coming on this side, which would be the west side from Mill Valley.
01:23:46Mill Valley.
01:23:47But it works like clockwork.
01:23:49It does.
01:23:50It does.
01:23:51It really does.
01:23:52The first time I went through there, I kind of hesitated, but not hesitated,
01:23:55but now they even have a Marysville sign in the middle of it.
01:23:59But if these people stop here and you're yielding and you keep yielding,
01:24:06and they can go, it just is a continual situation that everybody just gets out of.
01:24:13And once you do it, I think your mind just says,
01:24:17finally, I got through this.
01:24:19It's good.
01:24:21Betty, I'm not sure.
01:24:23With the flow of the traffic, we'll be fine.
01:24:25When it goes and it's every day, all that's going to be fine.
01:24:29Where all the concern tonight has been.
01:24:32Chad went to North Baltimore, and they have a roundabout.
01:24:37It's 3 in, 3 out.
01:24:393 in, 3 out.
01:24:40And it's close to a railroad crossing, correct?
01:24:42No.
01:24:43No, not that one?
01:24:44No.
01:24:45Okay, sorry.
01:24:46It's just heavy traffic.
01:24:47Heavy traffic.
01:24:48Drug traffic.
01:24:50Right.
01:24:51So, I mean.
01:24:53Mostly it's the location is what I'm getting.
01:24:55It's not people are arguing the roundabout, not hearing that so much.
01:25:00You know, they'll work with that, whatever.
01:25:02It's just where the location is at.
01:25:04It's to take another look, second, third, fifth time.
01:25:06Look again on that kind of money that we're spending.
01:25:10And what you're going to be doing is at really the best location.
01:25:16And everybody gets why it has to be done.
01:25:19But the feasibility, if all that's yet to come, then I'm sorry if I jump too soon.
01:25:25But what I have been reading or understanding, that you want a public opinion now at these readings.
01:25:34So, I'm just putting that out there.
01:25:37That's where I'm coming from.
01:25:39Thank you.
01:25:40But maybe the idea would be, you know, you've had a process that's come along.
01:25:47And it's a very unknown process of what's to come.
01:25:52Right?
01:25:53Because you made it sound like earlier that, you know, oh, we're going to pass this legislation.
01:25:57But, you know, nothing's really set in stone.
01:25:59Nothing's really, you know, we can make changes.
01:26:01And it's like I don't hear that that's the way that it goes.
01:26:07You're in the pipeline and you're going to hit legislation in that pipeline through construction and finances.
01:26:16Right?
01:26:17But to say that you're, you know, so it's like what's that look like?
01:26:21And maybe that's a piece where you say once you get to design, now this is when they're going to finalize.
01:26:28You're paying the money to do the feasibility, you know, and there's still changes to be done to it.
01:26:35And maybe it's an unknown of what the future is going to look like that's more causing the anxiety rather than, you know.
01:26:44Because from an outsider it looks like you're going to pass this legislation and it's a done.
01:26:51You know, it's a done.
01:26:52It's going to be, it's fast and it's going to go and it's going to be done.
01:26:55And so you're, you've got one more reading before, you know, the next person who comes in and complains that it's like it's already done.
01:27:11So it's a process.
01:27:12It's maybe a process issue rather than.
01:27:15One of the things that I can look, but what I said was we had not passed any money yet.
01:27:21So in that sense it's not done.
01:27:24Right.
01:27:25They didn't say we'd make changes to it.
01:27:27And we did hear that part.
01:27:29I mean we did hear that.
01:27:30I didn't, that wasn't.
01:27:31I said we had not passed.
01:27:33And Cindy also said there would be meetings all of the time and they would be constantly trying to figure out what's the best way to do whatever.
01:27:46Right.
01:27:48We don't, the legislation we get doesn't get down to the nitty gritty of exactly how they build it.
01:27:57Well I know.
01:27:58I think that's one of the things that.
01:28:00So.
01:28:01At least for tonight.
01:28:02I mean I didn't know any of this was happening.
01:28:04Any of what was happening?
01:28:06Well that the concern with the railroad and all that was coming.
01:28:10It's a, is there any assurance, like what assurance can the concerned people walk away?
01:28:18One hundred percent ODOT is completely aware of the railroad from day one.
01:28:24Absolutely.
01:28:25One hundred percent.
01:28:27I mean we, in that one meeting we sat there and talked about tunneling under the river, over the river, big ramps, everything in that area.
01:28:36It is, has, it's not something that has been missed.
01:28:39It's not something, we have been in this for four years.
01:28:44And I think sometimes what, because we're in it all the time and we hear about it and we are talking about it daily.
01:28:58That it's, it's so far gone as far as because it's a project.
01:29:03Because like we said before when you're doing projects and you're chasing money you're doing it three years out.
01:29:10So you know if we ever want to have a really, do you want to stop a project it needs to be back here where we don't chase the money.
01:29:18I mean in my opinion.
01:29:21And that's, that's those things.
01:29:23Now how do we, how do we get that information out is, I don't know where that information.
01:29:32I mean I know we've put it on Facebook.
01:29:35Tim has reported it in the paper.
01:29:37I don't know how to get that out there in a more timely fashion.
01:29:42So for example, we are getting ready to apply for, to finish our North Detroit Street project.
01:29:50So basically from Eliza to Carol.
01:29:55It won't even be constructed until 2028.
01:29:58But we are going after funding.
01:30:00We have to go to present in Columbus.
01:30:02So now's the time for people to say no we don't want you to go for that funding.
01:30:06Because you're not going, who in their right mind is going to turn back for this grant money that we've never seen before.
01:30:13We keep chasing it and we're in a good line.
01:30:16But we have to know, do we go or do we not go?
01:30:23What project do you want?
01:30:25That's what happens because you've got to think clear out here.
01:30:29We're in 28, 29, and 30 right now.
01:30:32What's happening in 26?
01:30:34We're just answering questions about, you know, tying up some loose ends and getting things in an order right now for that.
01:30:44Do we keep going?
01:30:46Yes, can they sit here and at some point go, we're done, we're stopping it.
01:30:50Absolutely.
01:30:52Especially when it comes to those two funding sources.
01:30:55I don't want to give anyone the impression.
01:31:00Do you want me to talk about the funding sources or not?
01:31:03Well, I didn't know if Lynn was done.
01:31:06I was.
01:31:08Because Lynn and Cindy have been working hard on it and so I was enjoying hearing from them.
01:31:12And I want to make sure that they're finished.
01:31:17So, I mean, your assurance that this has been worked on for four years, being chased for a long time, the railroad tracks were forefront in the thought.
01:31:27And they've been addressed and they have answered his questions multiple times, over and over and over and over again.
01:31:35And I feel, but that's just my opinion, that they've been answered.
01:31:40And I think he did a good job in asking him and they gave great response.
01:31:46They responded back to him.
01:31:48They handled all that.
01:31:50And what about, I mean, as far as concerned citizens still coming, like what assurance can be given that it's like any issues that come in this year, you know, the period of time that it's going to be constructed,
01:32:07it will be addressed like the buildings out front here.
01:32:12Little things will happen.
01:32:13It'll be done.
01:32:14Right.
01:32:15I mean, that's your assurance.
01:32:16I mean, it's all.
01:32:17Yes.
01:32:18And I think it's what we have found out since we've been here.
01:32:21Any project we've done is not you're going to run into something.
01:32:26You know, we may not reported that we are in a big quagmire down here in front of the firehouse on phase one because of the quicksand.
01:32:34But that was a legit issue.
01:32:37I mean, a lot of people thought we were going to run into all kinds of stuff.
01:32:40It wasn't stuff other than quicksand, you know, stuff like that or what what we're running into on this side.
01:32:47We are doing pretty good until we ran into that.
01:32:51It's those things that all the unseen you don't see until you're in it.
01:32:56And we're trying to be very proactive on the projects.
01:33:00It's like when we do any big project.
01:33:03You know, we are.
01:33:04Our first question is, we could go pave every street in this town.
01:33:08It would cost us a lot of money because you don't have the funding.
01:33:11But do we want to pave streets and not take care of the infrastructure underneath it?
01:33:16You know, this project here, the small mouth is up top.
01:33:22The big cost was and is underneath.
01:33:24And, you know, if you tear out your house and remodel your kitchen and you need to put new wiring in and new plumbing in and new everything,
01:33:35do you put your kitchen back just how you found it?
01:33:38Well, we were able to get some grant money and we're still chasing more.
01:33:42You're always chasing the money.
01:33:44All the time.
01:33:45So every time we chase the money, then we bring it, have to bring it to these guys.
01:33:50If we get it, you know, to say, hey, we're appropriating this much and this is where it's going to.
01:33:57It's just that kind of stuff.
01:33:59But it is, it's very difficult because we're so far back out here.
01:34:03And it's how do we, it's probably some, a bigger meeting we probably need to have is the how to.
01:34:09Because people don't know what they don't know.
01:34:12In the fact that this is how long, far out you're doing project work.
01:34:17And I think that's, I agree that that's a huge problem.
01:34:21Being four years, you know, because you don't, you come down to the end and then it's like, oh.
01:34:28But it's still a concern.
01:34:31And we've been so far behind for so long too.
01:34:34Do you know what I'm saying?
01:34:35We've been so far behind for so long.
01:34:37And on my four years as counsel, it's like, you have to think everything out and you have to study and you have to have recommendations.
01:34:44But like we didn't see something that Chief Donnelly wanted.
01:34:49He didn't read the fine print that he had 30 days for that estimate to be, you know, held accountable.
01:34:55So he missed that.
01:34:56And like what was that, two months later or something?
01:34:58It was more, it was like $5,000 more.
01:35:00It's crazy how much everything costs if you don't try to figure it out in a relative amount of time.
01:35:07That's the best amount of time.
01:35:09That's safest.
01:35:10And I don't know.
01:35:12I think we've just been so far behind and we were doing a lot of this with grant money because we can't afford to do it without grant money for sure.
01:35:20And I think this project is because it's a huge change.
01:35:24It's a tough thing to navigate change.
01:35:28Because it's a big visible change.
01:35:34You know, putting a sidewalk out to Walmart's not a visible change because it only affects the people on the scooters and everybody feels good about it.
01:35:41Because no one's going to run over somebody on a scooter.
01:35:44Or walking along the street.
01:35:46Which is a good thing.
01:35:55I'm done.
01:35:58Thanks, Liz.
01:35:59And what I was going to say with no pause was I don't want anyone to get the impression that we have all the time in the world here.
01:36:11We have not been given any deadlines on those two sources of revenue.
01:36:16But there are deadlines there.
01:36:19And if we're sitting here in November and haven't done a darn thing, we probably won't get those.
01:36:28And folks, that's reality.
01:36:31You may not like it.
01:36:33But the reality is within reason we have to follow what everyone above us is willing to fund.
01:36:44Do I think option five is a better option?
01:36:47It's been made pretty public. I do.
01:36:51But I can't get any money for it.
01:36:55We can't get a dime for it.
01:36:57Not one dime.
01:37:01Nothing.
01:37:03Thank you.
01:37:09Any more questions or comments?
01:37:11One thing before we leave.
01:37:13I just think it's a matter of trust.
01:37:15We all are elected officials.
01:37:17We were elected.
01:37:20And I trust the people on this committee or on this council.
01:37:25And I trust Cindy.
01:37:27And I trust Lynn.
01:37:29And any time you say the government or ODOT, everybody has a distrust.
01:37:36But I don't.
01:37:38I don't distrust them.
01:37:41I can't believe that they would put something together that they think is going to hurt people in this town.
01:37:48I just don't believe it.
01:37:50I don't believe that's the way things are.
01:37:53And I can't let myself believe that way.
01:37:55And I won't let myself believe that way.
01:37:59That's all I have to say.
01:38:00Thanks, Cindy.
01:38:04Anyone else?
01:38:06Okay, then.
01:38:07Until the 22nd at 7, we're adjourned.