Joe Haggerty, Boston Herald writer Steve Conroy, and the New England Hockey Journal's Mark Divver talk about what's holding up the Jeremy Swayman negotiations, and answer some Bruins fan mail questions.
In this episode, we dive into the hot topic of Jeremy Swayman's contract negotiations, exploring the potential of an $8 million a year deal for 8 years and the risks associated with such a significant investment in a goalie with limited experience. The conversation also delves into Brandon Carlo's invaluable role as a consistent defenseman and leader on the team, dispelling trade rumors and highlighting his defensive prowess.
Shifting gears to playoff performances, concerns are raised about David Pastrnak and Charlie McAvoy, with suggestions on how to support them better during critical postseason moments. Additionally, we analyze the Bruins' prospect pool showcased at Development Camp, focusing on standout players like Laroche and Duran, and the team's ongoing efforts to strengthen its future roster options. Join us as we explore the intricacies of player contracts, playoff strategies, and prospect development in the world of Bruins hockey!
0:00 - Intro
1:00 - Thoughts on Swayman's contract
8:57 - Bruins' good faith
11:17 - Importance of timely contract signing
17:23 - Importance of consistency
21:51 - Strategies for playoffs
28:42 - Mason Lohrei's development
40:31 - Developing youth prospects
43:53 - Player development challenges
45:34 - Evaluation of prospects
47:23 - Weaknesses in prospect pool
50:33 - Potential prospects to watch
Prize Picks! Get in on the excitement with PrizePicks, America’s No. 1 Fantasy Sports App, where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash. Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100! Pick more. Pick less. It’s that Easy! Go to https://PrizePicks.com/CLNS
Gametime! Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply. Go to https://gametime.co !
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Welcome to the #CLNS Media Network’s YouTube channel for Boston #Bruins hockey. CLNS Media is the leading online provider of audio/video coverage for the Boston sports. Get complete inside access to the Bruins at TD Garden, the game day skates at Warrior, and everywhere on the road. CLNS #NHLBruins' credentialed insiders Mike "Trags" Petraglia, Evan Marinofski, Conor Ryan, and Joe "Haggs" Haggerty. Providing instantaneous news and analysis all in real time, as well as full access to complete videos from the players, coaches, ownership and everyone else on Causeway Street.
For the CLNS award winning Celtics, Patriots, Red Sox, College hoops, NBA History, go here to featured channels-  / @bruinsrinkside
In this episode, we dive into the hot topic of Jeremy Swayman's contract negotiations, exploring the potential of an $8 million a year deal for 8 years and the risks associated with such a significant investment in a goalie with limited experience. The conversation also delves into Brandon Carlo's invaluable role as a consistent defenseman and leader on the team, dispelling trade rumors and highlighting his defensive prowess.
Shifting gears to playoff performances, concerns are raised about David Pastrnak and Charlie McAvoy, with suggestions on how to support them better during critical postseason moments. Additionally, we analyze the Bruins' prospect pool showcased at Development Camp, focusing on standout players like Laroche and Duran, and the team's ongoing efforts to strengthen its future roster options. Join us as we explore the intricacies of player contracts, playoff strategies, and prospect development in the world of Bruins hockey!
0:00 - Intro
1:00 - Thoughts on Swayman's contract
8:57 - Bruins' good faith
11:17 - Importance of timely contract signing
17:23 - Importance of consistency
21:51 - Strategies for playoffs
28:42 - Mason Lohrei's development
40:31 - Developing youth prospects
43:53 - Player development challenges
45:34 - Evaluation of prospects
47:23 - Weaknesses in prospect pool
50:33 - Potential prospects to watch
Prize Picks! Get in on the excitement with PrizePicks, America’s No. 1 Fantasy Sports App, where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash. Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100! Pick more. Pick less. It’s that Easy! Go to https://PrizePicks.com/CLNS
Gametime! Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply. Go to https://gametime.co !
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the #CLNS Media Network’s YouTube channel for Boston #Bruins hockey. CLNS Media is the leading online provider of audio/video coverage for the Boston sports. Get complete inside access to the Bruins at TD Garden, the game day skates at Warrior, and everywhere on the road. CLNS #NHLBruins' credentialed insiders Mike "Trags" Petraglia, Evan Marinofski, Conor Ryan, and Joe "Haggs" Haggerty. Providing instantaneous news and analysis all in real time, as well as full access to complete videos from the players, coaches, ownership and everyone else on Causeway Street.
For the CLNS award winning Celtics, Patriots, Red Sox, College hoops, NBA History, go here to featured channels-  / @bruinsrinkside
Category
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SportsTranscript
00:00Welcome to the Pucks with Hags podcast powered by PrizePix, the exclusive daily fantasy partner
00:10of the CLNS Media Network.
00:12I believe this is the 106th episode of the Pucks with Hags podcast.
00:16I have with me the Boston Herald's Steve Conroy.
00:19Steve, thanks for joining us today.
00:21Thanks for having me.
00:22Mark Diver has joined us as well from the Vineyard.
00:25I hope things are great down there, Mark, and the Wi-Fi is robust as we speak.
00:29But thanks very much for joining us.
00:32And let's get right into it.
00:34I just want to get, Mark, and you can kick us off first.
00:37I want to get your thoughts on where Jeremy Swayman's contract negotiations, where you
00:42think they might be right now, and what you think is the right deal for him, in your opinion.
00:49What do you think?
00:50What do you think you should get?
00:51What do you think you will get, Mark?
00:55Well, this is a total guess on my part.
01:00I haven't talked to anybody on this.
01:03Contract talks like this are not really my wheelhouse.
01:06But somewhere in the $8 million a year for, what, eight years?
01:11I think that's...isn't that what the neighborhood that I think the Bruins would be comfortable
01:18in and hopefully the player as well?
01:21If it's more than that, well, I don't know.
01:26I love the kid.
01:27I think he's a terrific player.
01:29But has he really earned that at this point?
01:31And teams around the NHL are always throwing money at guys who haven't earned anything.
01:36So to lock them up and have security and have that position taken care of for the long term,
01:43maybe you overpay.
01:44You probably do.
01:45Yeah.
01:46And you said $8 million a year?
01:47Yeah.
01:48Something like that.
01:49Yeah.
01:50Or somewhere in that neighborhood, Mark?
01:51Yeah.
01:52Yeah.
01:53Okay.
01:54And I actually wrote about this on Boston Sports Journal the other day.
02:03I think eight would be an overpay, in my opinion.
02:06It would be a bit of an overpay and for this reason.
02:09And you'd be paying for the future, which sometimes happens, like you're paying for
02:12future performance, which a lot of teams will do or are willing to do.
02:17But if you look at the $8 million goalies, especially the ones that have signed recently,
02:23guys like Shostakhin.
02:25Who was the other one?
02:26Well, Hellebuck is up there.
02:28Goalies like that, that are in the $8 plus million range and Hellebuck is getting closer
02:33to $9 actually on his contract and rightfully so.
02:36But the thing about these guys and Shostakhin's maybe a little bit of a better one to look
02:40at, those guys have all at least played 50 plus games in a season for multiple years
02:49in a row.
02:50Hellebuck, it's over 60 games a season for a bunch of games in a row.
02:54Hellebuck has won Vezina trophies.
02:56Shostakhin has been, I think, in either the top 10 or the top 5 in Vezina trophy voting
03:02three times, I think.
03:06And it's no fault of Jeremy Swayman's own that he hasn't been able to put up those numbers
03:11because he's been sharing time with Linus Ullmark.
03:13But at the same time, a lot of contract negotiations is comparable contracts, right?
03:18Comparable stats and putting yourself next to another goalie.
03:21This is what this goalie makes.
03:23Jeremy Swayman is very similar to this goalie.
03:25This is what he should get.
03:27And I just don't know if there's a comparable goalie out there to Jeremy Swayman with the
03:30numbers that he has right now that's making $8 million a year.
03:34I think it's much closer to six to seven somewhere in there.
03:39Even Saros didn't get eight.
03:43And you look at his numbers next to Swayman's and he's been over 60 games a year.
03:48He's been a workhorse for a while.
03:49The last contract, when he was actually in Swayman's situation, which is he was splitting
03:58time with Rene and he played similar amounts of games, he signed for three years and $15
04:04million.
04:05And then when he took over, was the number one guy, was playing 60 plus games.
04:09That's when he just got the long term $7.25, $7.5, whatever it is, million.
04:16And then he got a little bit more now after really performing well, was in the Vesna Trophy
04:21voting every year, has been a workhorse for them.
04:26If you look at the numbers and you look at what other goalies are getting, and I was
04:29wondering this because I assumed like everybody did, just give them $8 million, give them
04:35what the other starters and the star goalies are getting in the league, make them happy.
04:39He deserves it.
04:40He's going to be their number one guy.
04:41But I just don't know if his numbers are in line with getting that kind of deal.
04:46Does he have to take, or do the Bruins want him to take three years, $18 million or something
04:53like that and get them to $28, $29?
04:55And that's when he gets the huge deal with the $8 plus million.
04:58Maybe this is what the holdup is on the contract and both sides coming together in agreement
05:04because I'm sure there's pressure too from the league and from the other GMs to make
05:09sure that they're not giving Swainman this ridiculous contract when he truthfully hasn't
05:13really put up the numbers to earn it yet.
05:19Once he plays 50 to 60 games, proves that he can do it, I'd say you give him all that
05:24money.
05:25When he hasn't done it yet even once, like he did it for a month in the playoffs, I don't
05:28know that I would give him that much, but they obviously traded Linus Allmark away.
05:33He's in a great negotiating and leverage position now where he can kind of command a little
05:38bit of what he wants.
05:39Steve, I'm just curious, your thoughts on all of this with Swainman in this contract?
05:48He didn't file for arbitration, I'm guessing, because he doesn't want to get paid for what
05:54he's done.
05:55He wants to get paid for what he will do, or what he thinks he will do.
05:59At some point, and the Bruins didn't file either, which I think is probably, you can
06:05interpret it as a good-faith non-action by the team.
06:10I would think the Bruins would want to go eight on this guy.
06:13It wouldn't shock me if the Swainman side wanted to go short a term to hit it big when
06:18he's 28.
06:20I would give him the Soros deal in a heartbeat.
06:24Yeah.
06:25The seven, eight years, seven point whatever million, somewhere.
06:287.75, I think, or 7.4.
06:31Yeah.
06:32I think you could reach to that.
06:34You could even reach to that, I think, on a shorter ... The problem is, if you give
06:39him that much on a short-term deal, you're putting him in a position where he's going
06:44to get mega bucks the next time around.
06:47You're putting him in a position where you're going to have to pay him ... I guess, suppose
06:51if he gets paid that much, he's kind of earned it, and you're happy to pay him if he turns
06:55out to be ... can play 65 games a year, is a great playoff goalie, all that stuff.
07:01If he earns that money, you'd end up be willing to pay him.
07:06It's funny when you look at the numbers.
07:08The Bruins will be taking a big leap of faith with him, even if they give him that kind
07:13of a contract, and they go max term, full length, big money, and they give him something
07:19like the Soros deal.
07:20They're really locking that goalie up and putting a lot of betting out there that he's
07:26going to be able to be consistent, playing that kind of workload, performance, mental
07:31and physical, isn't going to be too much during the season.
07:33He's going to be able to stay healthy.
07:36All that stuff, when ... What has he played?
07:38The most he's played, I think, in a season is 44 this past season, right?
07:42Yeah.
07:43You're putting a lot of faith in his ability to really extend and keep the performance
07:47consistent much further than he's done to this point.
07:50Well, sometimes you've got to say to yourself, do we believe in this player?
07:54I think they believe in the player.
07:56They did it with Charlie McAvoy.
07:58Charlie McAvoy, he got the 9.5 there, and there was a little bit of a leap of faith
08:04there.
08:05He'd shown he was going to be a good player, but they believe him, and they were put into
08:11a corner where they had to choose whether they believe in him or not, and they don't.
08:16I think it was probably a good decision, but yeah, they just ... Is it an ideal situation
08:22for the Bruins to be in now?
08:25Probably not, but it's the position that they're in, and they just have to deal with it.
08:32Yeah.
08:33Now, once they traded Omar, that was the cannonball into the pool of like, hey, we're putting
08:39all our faith in this.
08:40I agree with you.
08:41I read into ... Jeremy Swineman obviously was not going to go for arbitration after
08:47the experience he had the year before.
08:49He was very vocal that it wasn't a good experience for him.
08:52It wasn't pleasant.
08:53He didn't want to do it again, wasn't going to do it again.
08:56To your point, I think the Bruins definitely very good faith on their part, because honestly,
09:02when you look at the numbers, and you look at the comparables, he would have made much
09:07less if they took him to arbitration.
09:09If they took him for one year, he would have come in much less than whatever he's going
09:13to get from them in the contract, and it would have definitely been-
09:18And you alienate the player.
09:20You get-
09:21Yeah.
09:22It would have been short-sighted on the Bruins' part too.
09:26Yeah.
09:27A three-year deal, correct me if I'm wrong, he'd be a free agent after that, right?
09:34Yeah.
09:35UFA.
09:36Yeah.
09:37So-
09:38Well, that's what I mean.
09:39That's another thing.
09:40The Bruins would be buying into something like six years of UFA territory for Swineman.
09:45Yeah.
09:46So they have to give on that front.
09:47Yeah.
09:48No, definitely.
09:49If you hand him to an eight-year deal, it's going to be probably that level because they're
09:52buying out all those years of free agency.
09:55But I just think that there was no way either side was going to arbitration after he made
10:00it perfectly distinctly clear that he didn't want to go.
10:04And you remember this, Steve.
10:05I think you were sitting next to me when Sweeney made a point of saying, Swineman took us to
10:09arbitration.
10:10Oh, yeah.
10:11Yeah.
10:12Well, I mean, they have a right to make that point because it's not clear to a lot of people.
10:17Yes.
10:19Mark, and I know you haven't done any digging on this, and I really haven't either.
10:24It was just I finally, over the last week or so, really started looking at the numbers
10:29because I like looking up the comparables and I always think the contract stuff is interesting
10:34and trying to figure out which what side is using as, you know, this is the guy you should
10:39get paid like and the team, same thing.
10:44When do you think this could or should get done?
10:47And I think it was a great sign to see him at development camp.
10:51He was on the bench.
10:52I think he was on the ice one day.
10:54You would tweet out a video, I think, Steve, of him working out a little bit.
10:58It was great science to see him around, talking to the kids, being a presence.
11:03When do you think this could or should get done?
11:06Because like I said, Mark, he's he's got the ultimate hammer over the team with Omar gone
11:11now.
11:12They're very, they have to sort of exceed to his what he wants a little bit here.
11:17Well, I would think, hey, it could be today.
11:21I mean, this could end at any time, right?
11:24Hopefully, you know, that'd be nice if it did.
11:27But the longer it goes on, then whether there's any difficulty in the talks or not, the perception
11:36will be that that there is, that there's something holding it up.
11:41So I would think it would be in the interest of both sides to get it done and to just get
11:46on with the rest of the summer and, you know, the summer's short for these guys.
11:51We've got a couple of months here ahead of us where maybe they could just relax and not
11:55have to be beating their heads against the wall every day until this gets settled.
12:00Yeah, I agree.
12:04And you know, what got me on this is I just think everybody was sort of assuming, and
12:10rightfully so, that, you know, eight years, 64 makes a lot of sense, like he's going to
12:14get eight million a year.
12:16That's going to happen.
12:17And like I said, I think the Saros contract, I think Steve may be right on that one, that
12:23I think it's going to be closer to that.
12:24I'm not sure he's going to get eight just based on when you look at the numbers and
12:28what he's actually done and what he's proven and what he hasn't to this point.
12:32They're taking, the Bruins are taking a little bit of a risk here, just not knowing if he
12:36can be that workhorse guy that can play 60 plus games.
12:40So it may, that may cost Swayman a little bit in the longterm if he wants that long
12:44range seven, eight year deal to stay in Boston.
12:48And he's been consistent.
12:49He loves being a Bruin.
12:50He appreciates and values the franchise and being a part of the franchise.
12:53He wants to be a part of the picture for a long time.
12:55And there's been no wavering on that.
12:57And I don't expect there to be any wavering on that.
12:59So I do think it's going to get done at some point.
13:01I just also think if it starts to bleed into training camp, that could be problematic.
13:07So it's in the best interest of both sides to get it done as quickly as possible.
13:12As Mark said, let's also thank Game Time, your best place to get Red Sox tickets at
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13:43That was like one of the all-time great concerts.
13:46Def Leppard was unbelievable.
13:47I would definitely go.
13:48I mowed a lot of lawns in middle school with the Walkman playing Def Leppard in my ears,
13:54Evan, back in the day.
13:55Young Joe Haggerty was like 12, 11 years old.
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14:39Let's do a few email, mailbag sort of questions here from the public at large.
14:46I thought that was an interesting way to go this week beyond the Swayman contract.
14:50Here's one from Archie Rhodes.
14:52Steve, Carlo's name shows up in two rumor reports, and I love these summer rumor reports
14:58when people are desperate for clicks on their websites, especially the Facebook posts that
15:01are completely misleading.
15:02Those are my favorite.
15:04Carlo's name shows up in two rumor reports in the last couple of days.
15:07Anyone think there's any weight to it?
15:08The first one was absurd to the Rangers, but now there's another one to the Buffalo Sabres
15:12from Archie Rhodes.
15:13Steve, I just don't think with how much they pay Carlo, it's a value contract, what he
15:18gives them leadership and performance on the ice, killing penalties, like all that stuff,
15:23unless it was like a massive Leon Dreisaitl kind of trade or something like that, I don't
15:30see any way that they would be trading Carlo, especially to a team in the division.
15:33That doesn't make any sense to me.
15:35Yeah, I mean, you never say never on these trades, but I think the Bruin fandom vastly
15:42underrates what Brandon Carlo brings.
15:46He covers a lot of ice.
15:48He's also probably been one of your best defensemen all these last two playoff seasons.
15:54He's consistent.
15:55Yes, yes.
15:56I mean, he had that toe pick in game seven that probably would have haunted him for a
16:00long time, but he survived that, and the Bruins survived it, but he's a very good player,
16:07very consistent.
16:08He's had some injuries at inopportune times, but he's a very good player, a perfect middle
16:15four, should I say, number four defenseman maybe, maybe number three.
16:22It'll be interesting to see where Zdorov kind of matriculates into the lineup, whether he
16:32plays with McAvoy or he plays with Carlo, but yeah, Carlo, like you say, if it's a Leon
16:39Dreisaitl, yeah, maybe, but yeah.
16:43No, I'm not trading him just to trade him.
16:47Yeah, no, I don't foresee any Leon Dreisaitl coming to Boston either, by the way.
16:52Let's not start that rumor, but yeah, I think it would have to be a blockbuster like that
16:57for Carlo to be involved, just such a consistent player and really good in the dressing room.
17:01I think he's a valuable leader, a very steadying influence, a calming influence in that dressing
17:06room, a real leader that has figured it out, I think, in the last few years that he's not
17:10a kid anymore and that he's kind of setting the example for the younger guys and really
17:15embracing that sort of role, not to mention he's just big, strong, has played with a little
17:20more of an edge the last year or two, which I think he really needed to, and it's been
17:25a good part of his game as well, but killing penalties, shutting down guys, killing plays,
17:32being consistent in the playoffs, just being big and strong at a position where the Bruins
17:36haven't always had the biggest and strongest defenseman.
17:38I think it's been very important, and you pair that with the contract, which is good
17:43value for a guy that can play 20 minutes a night, will play 20 minutes a night, and will
17:47be a top four, whether it's number three, number four, whatever, especially when you
17:50pair him with a puck-moving guy that is a quality defenseman on that second pairing.
17:56I think that enhances his value even more.
17:58Mark, any thoughts on Brandon Carlo and any kind of wackadoo trade rumors out there about
18:03him?
18:04Yeah, I'm not buying any of it, but here's a guy, this is the sweet spot of his career,
18:16I think.
18:17He's not a kid anymore, he's just right, this is prime time for him.
18:24He's figured out some things about his game, and like you guys have said, the price is
18:31right.
18:32I don't know why, after making the play for Zdorov, why would you make a trade like that
18:38and take away a player like Carlo?
18:44One of the ridiculous rumors was Trouba, right?
18:48Why would you trade for him at this point, given the money he makes, and his stature
18:54as a player, let's face it, in the playoffs, that wasn't pretty, Jacob Trouba.
19:02They already took back one bad contract, that's about enough.
19:07Yeah, right, right, exactly.
19:09You don't need another one, you don't need another one.
19:13The thing about Carlo is that, every once in a while, somebody in the media or on TV
19:20will say, well, isn't there some offensive upside there?
19:27My thing on him is, let's be happy with what he is.
19:31He's a good player, he's a steady player, he's a defender.
19:37Don't downgrade him because he's not Brad Park.
19:41He's a hell of a player, just as he is.
19:45His offense is, yeah, he's not great in that category, but all the other things he does
19:54make him a very good, a fairly good player.
19:57I think he's gotten better as far as the offense goes, to the point where he's going to give
20:02you a little something.
20:03Every once in a while, he'll make plays, and he certainly has always had a pretty good
20:06shot from the point.
20:08There are things that he does that, it's what you would hope to get from a stay-at-home
20:13defenseman, a shut-down PK kind of guy.
20:15He brings that to the table.
20:17In addition to every once in a while, really stepping up and making a play, he'll take
20:21the puck down low and find somebody in front of the net, and you've seen him do that a
20:24few times a year.
20:26It's starting to become more frequent where he's taking a risk here or there when he knows
20:30it's a good calculated risk to make a play, and he does it in a smart way that's not really
20:34costing his team, which is part of being a veteran.
20:40He's never going to be ... The problem becomes there's such an infatuation with fancy stats,
20:45and he's definitely never going to be a fancy stats darling kind of player.
20:48He's just not that kind of guy.
20:54There's no reason to take on ... Jacob Truba is a true bad contract at this point if you're
20:58taking something like that on.
20:59The Korpisawa one, I'll argue all day long that there's a limit to how bad that contract
21:06really is that you're taking on, because it's not huge money.
21:10You're overpaying a little bit for a back-up goalie, an established back-up goalie.
21:14It's not that bad to the point of what a lot of the criticism has been, even though it's
21:19for three more years.
21:21Like a Truba kind of thing would be a lot worse, I think, especially if you're trading
21:24out a good value contract like Carlo.
21:28Here's one from KevinChase18, so statistically speaking, Pasta and McAvoy stunk up the playoffs
21:34big time.
21:35I think that's definitely could be argued, because opposing coaches target them physically.
21:39How are the Bs fixing Pasta and McAvoy, and I'm assuming they're talking about during
21:44the playoffs.
21:45Mark, your thoughts?
21:49Well, let's get to the playoffs before we figure out how those guys are going to counteract
21:57teams defending them.
22:03I can't say specifically what they should do to break Pasta and McAvoy free.
22:09Every coach targets a guy like that in the opposing team's lineup and says, we're going
22:14to take that guy out and here's how we're going to do it.
22:18I don't know what the plan would be, but I'm confident they would come up with something
22:23that would allow him to be himself.
22:28Guys like him or high-scoring wingers or forwards, playing against a team like Florida that just
22:36is so physical and so in-your-face, do you blame Pasta for that, his relative lack of
22:47production there?
22:48Do you credit the other team that this is how you play a guy like that, and then they
22:53go out and do it?
22:55I don't know.
22:56I think that's something to worry about next April, not here two months before the start
23:01of the season.
23:02I agree.
23:03Steve?
23:05Yeah, I mean, one of the ways they can counteract that is to have another scoring threat on
23:13the line with them.
23:15Maybe Lindholm will be that guy.
23:20I don't know what his numbers are right now, but I think he went into the playoffs as a
23:26point-of-game guy in the playoffs, so he's produced in the playoffs and he produced a
23:31hell of a play to win the first-round series.
23:36They just need more scoring threats, and that's one of the reasons why I'm not wild about
23:40the Corpozalo contract, because I think it could have been spent in a better way, because
23:44you've got Brandon Bussey there, and yeah, would it be a gamble to go with Bussey?
23:48Yeah, of course, but sometimes you've got to gamble.
23:51I think the bottom line is absolutely right when it comes to the playoffs and getting
23:58more out of these players specifically.
24:00I think part of the answer is getting better players around them, getting more guys around
24:05them that take some of the weight and the attention off of them that right now is just
24:10too much.
24:11I think for Pasternak, it's definitely having another playmaking, offensive kind of player
24:16around him that can set him up, that can distribute, that is going to take defense's attention
24:23away from him to a point, and hopefully Lindholm is that guy.
24:27Hopefully Lindholm has the kind of season playing with Zaka and Pasternak that he had
24:31a couple years ago playing with Johnny Gaudreau and Matthew Kachuk, and I know that's kind
24:34of what the Bruins are sort of hoping and envisioning, is putting him with world-class
24:39players or putting him with high-skill good players is going to unlock more of the offense
24:44and allow him to be more of the guy that had 40-plus goals and 80-plus points in Calgary
24:49a couple years ago, and maybe that helps Pasternak in the playoffs just by virtue of being with
24:54higher caliber players like that.
24:58I'm with you.
24:59I think they need to get a winger at some point.
25:01Maybe it's at the trade deadline, another scoring threat.
25:04I think the carousel of players they're probably going to try out with Charlie Coyle and Brad
25:08Martian on that right wing, I don't know if that's going to work.
25:11So you may still be a top-six forward, winger short, when you start the season as you kind
25:16of go through these players.
25:19But as far as McAvoy goes, I think McAvoy, the only thing I felt like he was really guilty
25:24of in the playoffs was trying to do too much at times.
25:28And I think he had to, because of who he is and because of the kind of defenseman he is
25:31and because of that defenseman core, I think at times he was trying to be the puck mover,
25:36the offensive creator, the big hitter, the shutdown guy, do everything and be everything
25:41to everybody.
25:42And I think he got exhausted as the playoffs were going on, trying to do all that and sometimes
25:48getting himself out of position and getting himself in bad spots by trying to do everything
25:53all the time.
25:54You bring in a guy like Zdorov and you potentially play him with McAvoy, I think that frees him
25:59up to maybe try a little bit more offensively and be smart about it, but focus a little
26:06more on moving the puck and being the sort of offensive factor that Jim Montgomery wants
26:10him to be without constantly having to be the guy where the buck stops on the back end
26:15too, and the sheriff that's kind of throwing big hits and keeping the other team honest
26:19and intimidating them a little bit.
26:22I understand why Sweeney slipped a little bit and mentions Zdorov and McAvoy playing
26:26together when he talked about it when he signed him because I think that might be a great
26:31partner for Charlie McAvoy to unlock more to his game as well.
26:35Yeah, you've got to at some point give the other team some credit too.
26:41Florida, it made Adam Fox look pretty bad too, so Florida is a challenge.
26:49How they bounce back from winning the cup, we'll see, but they're a tough team to play
26:53against.
27:02I wonder if the addition of Jay Leach will help McAvoy at all in terms of getting over
27:12some of those hurdles, just in terms of overall perspective.
27:18They didn't have a defenseman on the staff last year to kind of ride hood on the D, so
27:28I wonder if adding Jay this year will have an impact.
27:37Obviously they think it will help, but they wouldn't have done it, but I just wonder in
27:41terms of Charlie and where he's at, whether Jay can help.
27:48Charlie's Charlie, but maybe a little nudge from a D coach like Jay can help him just
27:56a little bit.
27:57I think that's a great point, Mark, and I think a guy like Jay Leach is going to be
28:02excellent for Mason Lowry too as he's transitioning into the NHL and I think there's going to
28:08be expectations for him next year to take a step up and to really start challenging
28:13for top four minutes and playing in more situations and seeing how good he can really be at the
28:20NHL level.
28:23When I heard they were bringing him in and that he was joining the staff, Lowry and McAvoy
28:28is a great point because I think he's going to be very helpful to him too and you can
28:30always use just a sounding board defenseman-wise on the coaching staff, but I think the first
28:36guy I thought of with Jay Leach was Lowry and how big that's going to be for his NHL
28:40development.
28:41Yeah, yeah, and I'm very interested to see how Lowry plays this year.
28:49I'll be honest, I was shocked at how well he played in the playoffs because he was up
28:56and down in the regular season.
28:58Sometimes he was aggressive, sometimes he wasn't.
29:00There were times where he would let the other guy get the puck in the corner and that was
29:06a red flag to me, but he didn't do that in the playoffs.
29:09He was very good, so it'll be interesting to see how his minutes go because I'm guessing
29:17if they're winning the game, maybe Zadorov plays more.
29:21If they're losing, maybe Lowry plays a little more.
29:25Absolutely, and I think Lowry, it was funny, about midway through that Toronto series when
29:35you saw how well he was starting to play, you could see the Leafs starting to really
29:40go after him physically because they were realizing it too, that he was a difference
29:43maker on the back end with the way he could escape out of the zone, move the puck.
29:49The way he was facilitating it and getting it up the ice quickly and just the skill that
29:55he has, the offensive skill level he has, it was flashing a lot in the playoffs in addition
30:00to doing all the little things that you have to do for your team to be successful, Steve,
30:04that you're talking about.
30:05You could see the Leafs going after him because they saw that he was starting to make a difference
30:10in that series.
30:11He was unquestionably a very good playoff player.
30:14Mark, your expectations for Lowry this year?
30:17Well, I think he has a chance to continue to improve.
30:23I think he's always going to be a risk-reward type of defenseman who takes chances and there
30:31are times when it's going to blow up in his face and the puck's going to end up in his
30:35net.
30:37I think what he can give you offensively and breaking the puck out is maybe worth the price.
30:44Well, not maybe.
30:46If he can harness it a little bit, it is worth the price.
30:48It's what you want.
30:49You don't want him to be just an off-the-glass-and-out guy.
30:54He's much more talented than to just have him do that.
31:02That's certainly not what they want, but I would expect continued improvement.
31:08As he gets used to it, the guts that he has to make some of the plays that he makes is
31:20something you don't see.
31:22It's kind of a special trait in a young guy like that to come in and have the confidence
31:27to say, you know what?
31:28I'm doing it.
31:29I'm doing it my way and we'll see what happens.
31:34It didn't work at times during the season for sure, but other times it paid off.
31:39I would expect to continue to see the arrow point up on him in a big way.
31:45No doubt.
31:46I think with a guy like him, the experience part of it is just going to help him as far
31:51as picking spots when it maybe needs to be a little more conservative, like game situations,
31:56things like that, and then picking other spots where it's time to take risks and be creative
32:01and all that.
32:02His feel for that, I can't imagine it's going to go anything but upward as he gains
32:07more NHL experience and confidence and sort of understands situationally things even better
32:12than he does now.
32:13Now with Major League Baseball in full swing with the Boston Red Sox, actually doing okay.
32:18Sort of fighting for a playoff spot.
32:20Certainly better than I think anybody would have expected going into this season.
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34:00Pick more, pick less.
34:02It's that easy.
34:03Mark, we'll start with you on this one from mspec1.
34:07I actually answered this one a little bit in the mailbag over the weekend, but I wanted
34:11to put it out there again because you guys are going to be here.
34:15This might be hard to get answered, but does Mark McLaughlin have any chance of making
34:18it with the Bruins or being an everyday NHL player?
34:21As a Bill Ricker resident, I've watched him and followed his career, and I'm hoping he
34:24makes it to the NHL.
34:25Thank you.
34:26Mark, your thoughts about Mark McLaughlin and the prospects of him being an NHL regular
34:32at this point?
34:33I think he has a chance.
34:35With the Bruins, less of a chance.
34:38But I think he's certainly capable of playing in the league in a fourth-line role.
34:43Maybe not here.
34:44He might have to move on to another team.
34:51Last year in Providence, his scoring touch just vanished.
34:58Not that he was ever a gifted scorer or a guy who didn't have to work his nuts off to
35:06get every goal, but he had no puck luck last year.
35:12I think that affected how he looked at the game.
35:15I think he struggled offensively, and confidence-wise, he took a hit.
35:21I don't think it's time to give up on him and write him off as a possible NHL-er.
35:28I think it's possible that he could do that.
35:34The odds are against him in Boston because of the way the Bruins are built.
35:39It's unfortunate for him that the Bruins are as strong as they are depth-wise, organizationally,
35:46and now they've gone out and get guys like Mark Kostelik and Max Jones that are probably
35:50going to be fourth-line staples.
35:53And Johnny Beecher is obviously a guy they think very highly of.
35:57First-round pick as well.
35:59That's kind of earmarked for something like that, that kind of a role as well.
36:05I feel like at some point it's probably going to be in his best interest, even though I'm
36:09sure he's dreamed of being a regular with the Bruins.
36:11He did have some great moments with the Bruins, especially when he first got signed and came
36:15up and scored and all that.
36:18But it does seem like it's a hard road for him, Steve, to become an NHL regular in Boston,
36:24and it might be somewhere else as a free agent or otherwise where he finally gets a chance
36:29to prove that somewhere else.
36:31Yeah, I mean, judging by the Bruins' own actions in the offseason, you'd think that, no, they
36:37don't believe he's a regular NHLer.
36:40I think he has a shot.
36:41We've seen glimpses when he's come up that he's a pretty good player.
36:46But yeah, Mark is right.
36:47It's probably not going to be with the Bruins.
36:50They've got a whole bunch of bottom six guys now with Riley Tuft and Max Jones and, of
36:59course, Mark Kostelik.
37:01So it's going to be really tough for him to win a job, I think, in training camp.
37:08Yeah, I agree.
37:09He's a great guy to have in your system, to bring up when somebody's injured, but I'm
37:15sure he wants more than that.
37:16I'm sure it had to be the start when, what was it, two years ago?
37:22I think that he had an amazing training camp.
37:24He was fantastic, really looked like he should have been on that fourth line to start the
37:29year and he wasn't.
37:31I'm sure at that point, the writing's got to be on the wall a little bit with a player
37:35like, what do I have to do to get there?
37:37Especially with him where, Mark, to your point, face-offs, penalty kill, working his bag off
37:43every shift and every practice and being a leader and being a good example, all that
37:48stuff.
37:49He brings all of that to the table and it feels like there's spots around the NHL for
37:52guys like that.
37:54Yeah, and also, Patrick Brown is still around.
38:02Patrick Brown does all those things that Mark does, only with more experience.
38:12He's a guy who's actually played in the NHL for quite some time.
38:17He's in Providence, kind of in that third line, fourth line, center role, guy who does
38:25a little bit of everything, provides leadership.
38:29Mark's got that.
38:30There are other guys, too, that Mark kind of has to jump over or would have to jump
38:35over.
38:36Yeah, and you hear great things about Patrick Brown, too, from people that are down there.
38:42He's unbelievable.
38:43Yeah, I think I was talking to Riley Duran at development camp and he was playing a little
38:48bit with Patrick Brown when he played for the Peabrewers this past year and he was talking
38:52about just what an education it was into professional hockey, playing alongside him, sitting next
38:57to him on the bench, just him being sort of a Crash Davis type to those young kids that
39:01are coming in and showing them the ropes and being a great veteran example for players
39:06like that.
39:13There were a lot of nights in the second half of the season down the stretch that he was
39:16Providence's best player.
39:21He's one of those guys on the downside now, I guess.
39:26Good enough to play in the league, not good enough to play in the league in Boston.
39:32It is what it is, as they say.
39:33Yeah, well, I think with him, when you watch him at the NHL level, I feel like the skating
39:40speed isn't as good as it needs to be for him to be there on a regular basis and be
39:45on a very good team as a frontliner.
39:49He's probably always going to be bouncing between the both.
39:53If he's in the right situation, this is what we're talking about with Mark McLaughlin,
39:57maybe he gets a full season somewhere or a couple full seasons or whatever, if it's the
40:01right spot and the right team and the right fit.
40:04You could see he was having a hard time getting the spots that he needed to get to consistently
40:09skating speeds wise when he was was up at the NHL.
40:13But he brings a lot to the table.
40:14And I get more after talking to people about him and sort of seeing him, why they signed
40:21him and why they brought him into the organization, because I think there's just a ton of value
40:24for him as a person and a player, in addition to what you're you're getting on the ice.
40:29All right. Last one about time.
40:32Play the kids should have been done last year instead of JVR type, especially when he got
40:38hurt and didn't do as much the last three months, including the playoffs.
40:42He looked slow to me on the ice from Mary and Pat.
40:45Steve, do you want to see Merkulov, Lysell, those kind of guys, more youth being brought
40:53into the fold this year, a la Beecher and Patra last year?
41:00Well, yeah, there's room for one of them anyway.
41:05There's obviously a clear, open, you know, second line right wing spot.
41:10Mark, maybe you can answer this better, whether he's equipped to play on his Merkulov is equipped
41:18to play on his offside.
41:19But, you know, if I was him, I'd be working on that one timer all summer long because
41:25there's a spot for him.
41:27Lysell, you know, I don't know if he's ready to make the jump.
41:33He's a bit of a perimeter player from what I've seen.
41:38And I guess there's room for that if you've got a really hard team like the Bruins are
41:44obviously trying to create.
41:48But he's got to get to a dirty area sometimes.
41:51Mark?
41:52Yeah, he does.
41:55And I think you can live with a perimeter player.
41:58I think, you know, if the puck goes in for him, you know, but if you're on the perimeter
42:04and you're not scoring, you know, then what are you doing?
42:08So, you know, I think but I think it's time to find out with him.
42:13It sure seems like from, you know, Don Sweeney's comments and such recently that, hey, it's
42:19there for him.
42:20He just has to take it.
42:23He can't show up and have a horrible camp.
42:26But I think if he has a halfway decent training camp, it's his and see what he does with it.
42:32I think it's time after two years in the minors.
42:35It's time for him to step up and take that and be, you know, the NHL player that he thinks
42:42he can be.
42:43You know, right now, this is a big, you know, training camp for him.
42:50And, you know, one thing I would like to see from him, and I'm not holding out any hope
42:56that I will, is that he needs to come to Boston and skate at Warrior and train at Warrior
43:02for the month of August, like all the pros do, like Marchand and Coyle and all of them.
43:09He needs to kind of immerse himself in that Bruins culture, you know, in the offseason
43:16preparing for the season.
43:21If he trains in Sweden, if he trains in Sweden for the summer and shows up the day before
43:25training camp, you know, I don't know.
43:28To me, that's not the way to do it.
43:30So, I mean, we'll see what happens.
43:31But I think he needs to get here and, you know, stake his claim going into camp.
43:38I agree.
43:39You know, you can't make the team being sort of an outsider that's just parachuting in
43:45at a certain point.
43:47You've got to kind of show, at a certain point when you're a player like that, you've got
43:51to show everybody in the organization you want it.
43:53And you're going to do what it takes to get it.
43:56And I don't know if he's fully done that at any point.
44:00Like he started to do it last year, you know, you've reported on this, Mark, and you saw
44:06it out there that he started doing the right things during the season when he kind of got
44:11called to the carpet and had the, you know, come to Jesus moment with Ryan Mugenel.
44:15And he kind of got on board and did what he was supposed to do.
44:18And you want to continue to see him make the right decisions, make the, do the right steps
44:23and do everything he needs to do to prove himself to the veterans.
44:28And that, you know, he's going to do everything that they're going to do to be at his best
44:31and to help them win.
44:33And like, that's part of my issue in general with him being the guy is like, he's probably
44:39going to get put on a line, right wing with Brad Marchand and Charlie Coyle.
44:44How patient is Brad Marchand going to be with this kid, Fabian Lysell, if he's not
44:48playing the right way and he's not doing the right things, he's not going to last long
44:53playing on that line with Brad Marchand, if he's not playing the right way and doing what
44:56he's supposed to do.
44:58Yeah, well, I mean, you look at Jake DeBrusque when he was put with Marchand and Bergeron,
45:06you know, he, he rounded up the rough edges of his game pretty quick, you know, and you
45:12know, you're right.
45:13Marchand is not going to stand for, you know, I don't know, lackadaisical is the right term,
45:19but he's not going to stand for, you know, players aren't doing everything it takes to
45:24win and be successful.
45:26Before we go, I've talked a little bit about dev camp.
45:30You guys were both there.
45:31I just want to get both of your thoughts on development camp.
45:34Anybody you really liked, any overall thoughts or evaluations, just any feelings you came
45:40out of development camp with about individual players or collectively, Mark?
45:50Well I think that, uh, the fact that Boston hasn't had draft picks is, is in evidence
46:01at that camp, you know, uh, there's a handful of, who was there that, you know, Letourneau,
46:08okay, put Letourneau off to the side because he's a first rounder, but other than him,
46:14who, who was there that really makes you sit up and say, Hey, this guy, this guy is really
46:21going to be a player.
46:22I think there's some serviceable prospects there that will be, they'll be able to play
46:27in the league, you know, with varying degrees of success, but you know, there wasn't anyone
46:33there to, to me, you know, I think the prospect pool is weak and you know, that's been pointed
46:39out, uh, all over the place.
46:41But, uh, I think that was an evidence at camp there, aside from Letourneau, you know, there's
46:47a couple of, I like Riley Duran, uh, I thought Oscar Jelvic had a really good development
46:54camp and he should cause he's a little bit, Oscar Jelvic, but, but again, I think his
47:00size, obviously his size is against him, but yeah, he's, he's coming along.
47:05He's coming along.
47:08I, I loved, uh, Gleb Varamea.
47:11I, I, I think that's a kid they should target as a free agent at the end of the college
47:16season.
47:17Uh, I think he's got a lot of the attributes that, uh, that the Bruins value.
47:21Uh, but you know, some of the other guys, I don't know, there's a lot of, uh, there's
47:27a lot of fourth line prospects there to me.
47:30What, uh, Mark, what did you think of Letourneau?
47:33Because I liked him.
47:35Um, you have to judge him obviously on, uh, an eight as being an 18 year old kid coming
47:41from prep league in Canada and going against guys, some guys that were like, you know,
47:46five, six years older than him, uh, in that development camp, uh, definitely like showed
47:53some pretty good offensive skills, showed some good confidence around the net and, you
47:58know, patience around the net, uh, definitely knows how to use his body to shield defenders
48:03and you know, for puck possession and creating offense for himself.
48:07But like, uh, he obviously also has a long way to go and was getting blown off the puck
48:13a lot, which can happen when you're six foot seven, you don't have a low center of gravity,
48:17right.
48:18Especially when you're going against strong opponents.
48:19But I also saw at times what I felt like was a little bit of a lack of intensity.
48:25Like there was one drill they were doing where he was going up against Frederick Brunet,
48:29who's obviously been pro for a little bit and is more experienced.
48:33And Letourneau at one point just gave up on the play on a one-on-one drill and kind of
48:37just like, it was like, oh, all right, whatever.
48:40And Brunet went, hustled, got the puck, got it out of the zone.
48:44Refs didn't blow the whistle play.
48:45The drill was still going on and some of it was probably a lack of experience, but it
48:49also seemed like at times and when they were playing the three on three drills and some
48:53of the in the tournament they played, there were times that he seemed very passive and
48:58just sort of away from what was going on and not really involved.
49:02And I think that's part of the youth, but that's also maybe a trait or a characteristic
49:05to watch moving forward as something that he's going to have to be, you know, he's going
49:10to have to keep an eye on where the fire is burning a little bit harder, like it was with
49:15some of those other guys that weren't first round picks in that camp.
49:21Yeah, I, you know, the most common comparable for Letourneau is Taige Thompson and for better
49:29and worse, he looks like Taige Thompson did at that age, you know, he gets pushed off
49:35the puck and all that, but he's got tremendous skill.
49:40We saw it in tight when, you know, with his ability to kind of do what Brazzau did on
49:48some of his goals this year, just take it wide with the wide reach and lift it over
49:53the goalie's pad.
49:55So he's, you know, he's at least a couple of years away, I would think.
50:02What raised my eyebrows when Sweeney talked to us on July 1st was when he was running
50:09down the list of prospects who could, you know, possibly fill that second line right
50:14wing spot.
50:16He also threw in Riley Duran and I'm not sure he's a top six guy, but I think he's a very
50:23interesting prospect and he might be a guy who's, the pro game, you know, fits him better
50:29than the college game did.
50:31So he's going to be a player to watch.
50:34I think Riley Duran is very smart.
50:36I think he's very polished.
50:37I think he does a lot of really good things, does a lot of things really well.
50:43His size is pretty good, too.
50:45He's a good sized kid, like he doesn't shy away from the physical part of it if he has
50:50to play that way.
50:53I could see him sticking around for a long time in training camp, you know, fighting
50:57for an NHL job.
50:58Does he get it out of camp just because of all the NHL guys that they've signed and,
51:03you know, because to your point, I'm not sure that he's a fit on the top six at the NHL
51:07level either with Brad Marchand and Charlie Coyle in that kind of a role.
51:12But Mark, I could definitely see Riley Duran pushing hard for a spot and getting NHL time
51:19this year when the situation calls for it, where he could get a chance to stick if he
51:24does get an opportunity.
51:28Yeah I think it's realistic to think he could get some games, for sure.
51:33I think time in the most of the year, I think he'll be in Providence, but you know, continued
51:40development for him.
51:43He was a better player in Providence at the end of last season in the American League
51:50than he had been at Providence College, you know, throughout the season.
51:56I think part of it is, you know, maybe he was bored with the college game and it was
52:01time to move on.
52:02I think there's probably a lot of that going on.
52:05But you know, as far as prospect, you know, I mean, he's, again, has a lot of the attributes
52:12that the Bruins like.
52:14He probably doesn't have the hands to be a guy that is really going to be an offensive,
52:19a big-time offensive contributor.
52:21He's not that guy.
52:22But he certainly could be a guy who puts up 15, 20 goals and just plays a solid up-and-down
52:29wing going forward.
52:31Absolutely.
52:33I love enough of those guys, especially when they're on entry-level deals.
52:35Steve and Mark, thank you very much for joining us.
52:37All right, Mark, enjoy the rest of your time on Martha's Vineyard.
52:44Have a great time.
52:45Go hit the beach.
52:46Must be nice.
52:47I wish I was on Martha's Vineyard right now.
52:55It's pretty hot down here, too, let me tell you.
52:57Not as hot as at all, but you know, I'm going to fight through it.
53:02Go take a dip in the water and cool off, Mark.
53:05Take it easy, my friend.
53:06All right, thank you very much, everybody, for joining us.
53:09Until next time, we'll see you at the Rink.