#balochistan #muhammadmalick #pakistan #khabar #juif #kpkgovt #BalochistanGovernment #cmbalochistan #sarfrazbugti
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Muhammad Malick
Guest:
- Mir Sarfraz Bugti (CM Balochistan)
Muhammad Malick's Detail Analysis on historical issues of Balochistan
"Maulana shouldn't make such a big statement in NA without investigation." CM Balochistan
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Muhammad Malick
Guest:
- Mir Sarfraz Bugti (CM Balochistan)
Muhammad Malick's Detail Analysis on historical issues of Balochistan
"Maulana shouldn't make such a big statement in NA without investigation." CM Balochistan
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, you are watching Khabar, I am Muhammad Malik.
00:13In politics, everything is serious, but yesterday, when Maulana Fazlur Rahman gave a speech in
00:18the National Assembly, he raised a lot of red flags, to the extent that the situation in
00:26the country is so serious that if 5-7 districts announce their independence, the UN will also
00:32accept them.
00:33This is a very serious issue, and Balochistan is a serious issue, which is called a festering
00:37issue in English, for many centuries.
00:39So we thought that today, we can have a discussion on this, even though it is very difficult to
00:44do so in one program, but we will have with us the Chief Minister of Balochistan, Mir
00:48Sarfaraz Bukhri, we will talk to him, but before talking to him, I want to give you a little
00:53history, so that you can take it into context, that where did the issues of Balochistan come
01:00from, where are we standing today, and where are we going in the coming days.
01:05There are three big issues there, unemployment, poverty, underdevelopment, and the most important
01:11issue there is that of disappearances.
01:13The government has its own stance on this, the people there have their own stance, and
01:17this is a very big clash.
01:19But before we discuss today, I want to tell you a little history, the important things
01:25so that you can understand it in context.
01:27We start in 1947, when Balochistan, when Pakistan was formed, there were four areas,
01:33there were princely states, Makran, Laspela, Kharan, and Kalat, the first three were joined.
01:39Those who were in Kharan and Kalat at that time, they announced independence, they said
01:43that I will come down.
01:45Then in April 1948, the Pakistan army invaded them, they came there, and the Khan of Kalat
01:53surrendered, but his brother, Prince Abdul Kareem, he started his resistance.
01:59Anyway, that resistance was crushed.
02:01Now we come to 1948-1954.
02:05Do you remember, Ayub Khan Sahib had made one unit, there was a lot of reaction to this,
02:10and Nawab Mir Nawroz Khan Zarak Zayi, he was the chief of the Zahiri tribe.
02:15They started a big movement against him, a militant movement.
02:21This is in 1954.
02:23In 1960, Nawroz Khan's son was hanged for treason.
02:28And in 1962, Nawroz Khan himself was imprisoned in Kolu jail, and he became the symbol of
02:36the Balochistan resistance.
02:39Now you see, these are the most difficult things that are happening.
02:42We come to 1963.
02:44The insurgents had made 22-23 camps in the areas of Murree, Mangal, and Bukti.
02:50They started to blow up railway tracks, they started bombing, they did everything.
02:54The ambushes of the convoys started.
02:56So the army reacted a lot to that, and a lot of cleansing operations were carried out
03:01in the areas of the Murree tribe.
03:04That happened there too.
03:06In 1969, there was a ceasefire of the Baloch separatists.
03:10And Yahya Khan finished off one unit.
03:14In 1970, Balochistan became a province, which at that time was West Pakistan.
03:20In 1972, the first elected government was formed.
03:23There were nationalists, there was everything.
03:25And in that, Attaullah Mengel became the chief minister.
03:28This was in 1972.
03:30But at the same time, Ali Bhutto finished off his government.
03:34After that, disturbances started there again.
03:37Then protests started.
03:39Now in 1974, this speed increases a lot.
03:43The roads are also closed, militants etc.
03:45with other provinces of Balochistan.
03:47So it goes to the peak in the 1970s.
03:50In 1976, this BLA, which you hear,
03:54Balochistan People's Liberation Front, BPLF, this is formed.
03:59Mir Hazar Khan Murree is made.
04:01Now clashes are going on, everything is going on.
04:04In 1977, General Jawaharlal Nehru establishes martial law.
04:08And then General Rahimuddin Khan becomes the military governor there.
04:14In 1978, the military operation stops there.
04:18And then economic policies, which do everything, a lot of work happens.
04:22And in 1991, Khair Baksh Murree, the leader of BLA, returns to Pakistan.
04:28You will remember 2005.
04:30Then the matter becomes very hot.
04:32Do you remember when Musharraf gave a very strong statement?
04:36He said that this is not the second half of the 1970s.
04:38You will not even know what has hit you.
04:42So it was a very harsh statement.
04:44Then it becomes fast.
04:46And in 2005, Dera Bukti, especially,
04:48becomes a target in the Musharraf government.
04:51Then in 2006, now movements have been going on since 2005, everything is happening.
04:56Nawab Akbar Bukti, you remember, he was in the cave.
05:01He himself went there and took shelter.
05:03Or he was in exile, whatever.
05:05Anyway, the operation happens.
05:07An army delegation also goes to talk.
05:09And then that cave falls.
05:11And all the army officers and Nawab Bukti are all martyred.
05:16They say, their allegation is that they knew the fall and fired.
05:20They say, a lot of questions arise on that too.
05:23After that, in 2009, Khan of Qalat Suleiman Daud,
05:26he declares that the independence of Balochistan
05:29and becomes the Council for Independent Balochistan.
05:32And these are the cases.
05:34I told you the background because after that,
05:36the things are fresh history.
05:38This is now.
05:39Then after that, the issue of Gwadar, the second issue,
05:42and then we have seen a lot, we have seen a spike.
05:45In the first week of February, 18 paramilitary forces' soldiers are martyred.
05:49And they listen to us every other day.
05:52This is the background at the moment.
05:54And once again, Balochistan is in the eye of the storm.
05:58Yesterday, Maulana Fazlur Rehman also gave a very harsh speech.
06:01He even said that five to seven districts are such that
06:04they can also announce freedom.
06:06And if they do, then the UN will also accept them.
06:11This is the issue.
06:12Many people think that this is a political issue
06:16that you have been trying to solve with force for 75 years.
06:20It will not happen.
06:21Asim Munir gave a statement.
06:23He said that all the Khawarij, all the people who have taken up arms against the state,
06:29if they throw their weapons first, then we can talk to them.
06:35But the question arises that if there is no political space first,
06:39will people throw their weapons in Balochistan?
06:42What is happening in Balochistan today?
06:44We will talk about all these things.
06:45Mr. Munir, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
06:47Wa-alaikum-as-salam, Malik Bhai.
06:50Sir, first I would like to say that yesterday,
06:52Maulana Fazlur Rehman gave a very alarming speech.
06:55I would like you to listen to his statement about Balochistan.
07:00We will start from there.
07:02What did Maulana Sahib say yesterday?
07:06Right now, five to seven districts of Balochistan are in a position
07:12that if they announce freedom,
07:14then the UN will accept their request
07:18and Pakistan will be considered a part of it.
07:22These things have happened before as well.
07:24But we have seen, for example, in the first week of February,
07:2618 youths were martyred.
07:28Every other day, we see terrorist activity.
07:30When you came, when you became the Chief Minister,
07:34everyone thought that the attitude would be more strict
07:37because you are considered a hawk in many matters.
07:40For 70-75 years, we have seen that this is a political matter
07:44that is being resolved by force.
07:48And what Maulana Sahib has said,
07:50first of all, tell us, what is the reality in this?
07:54And secondly, if we continue to have this strict attitude,
07:58then how will it be resolved?
08:00This is basically a political issue.
08:04Sir, first of all, Maulana Sahib is a very respectable
08:08and powerful personality of Pakistan.
08:10It may not be appropriate to comment on him,
08:14but because he has said something so serious,
08:16I feel the need for a rebuttal.
08:18I feel that Maulana Sahib has been misled,
08:22his local leadership has misled him,
08:24or it is his own assessment.
08:26Maulana Sahib, honestly speaking,
08:28these separatist forces, these miscreants, these terrorists,
08:32they don't have this much power to hold an inch of land
08:36for more than 2-3 hours.
08:38They come on the roads,
08:40in some urban centres,
08:42in remote areas,
08:44in such small districts,
08:46they come there and make 5-10 minute videos,
08:48and then those videos are circulated.
08:50So I feel that it is not appropriate for a person like Maulana Sahib
08:54to speak like this in the National Assembly without investigation.
08:58And I reject it.
09:00There can be no question
09:02that there is such a situation
09:04that they come and make an announcement in a district.
09:08In every district,
09:10in every inch,
09:12the state's presence,
09:14you can see the surge,
09:16as you yourself said,
09:18there are many reasons for that surge.
09:20I will tell you one small reason.
09:22One is the policy of impeachment,
09:24which you saw here in the form of TTP,
09:26some time ago,
09:28and in the last government,
09:30it is not appropriate for people
09:32to take names.
09:34They kept the same policy in Balochistan as well.
09:36There were so many terrorists
09:38who were released,
09:40released in goodwill,
09:42or whatever their policy was at that time.
09:44We were saying at that time
09:46in your programs and other places
09:48that this policy of impeachment
09:50will not work.
09:52Secondly, as far as this is concerned,
09:54you said that this is a political issue.
09:56Maulana Sahib,
09:58how is this a political issue?
10:00Simply,
10:02through violence,
10:04they want to
10:06cut our country like a cake.
10:08And we are in this confusion
10:10that it is a political issue.
10:12The political issue is then.
10:14I am saying this because
10:16Maulana Sahib,
10:18if you let me complete my argument,
10:20I request you,
10:22let me complete,
10:24then you can counter-question.
10:26The political issue is then.
10:28Like this is an election issue.
10:30It has been going on for a long time.
10:32Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't.
10:34Sometimes someone wins, sometimes someone loses.
10:36More or less,
10:38such elections have been going on for decades.
10:40That is a political issue.
10:42We can debate on that.
10:44But this is purely, purely, purely
10:46a separatist movement.
10:48Through violence,
10:50BLA, BRA, and so and so others,
10:52they want to
10:54cut our country like a cake.
10:56And we are in this confusion.
10:58There are two confusions.
11:00One, as you said, it is a political issue.
11:02The other is that the reason of this violence
11:04is underdevelopment, or deprivation,
11:06or sense of deprivation.
11:08The one who is fighting does not believe
11:10in these two reasons.
11:12But we have to call it political
11:14because violence in the name of religion
11:16is terrorism.
11:18Wherever there are separatist movements
11:20or any resistance,
11:22they exploit the ground reality.
11:24They hang a coat
11:26on a nail.
11:28So,
11:30poverty is an issue there.
11:32There is an issue of sense of deprivation.
11:34There is an issue
11:36of genuine representation.
11:38Do you remember
11:40in 2018,
11:42a father's party was formed.
11:44You were also in that party.
11:46Suddenly, that party takes the majority
11:48and becomes
11:50the Chief Minister of that party.
11:52There are fights in that party.
11:54This time,
11:56you were
11:58in the interim government.
12:00You resigned. People's Party joined.
12:02People's Party is now the biggest force.
12:04People think that
12:06there is some influence
12:08being managed everywhere.
12:10No one can deny that
12:12there are a lot of managed elections in Balochistan.
12:14But having said that,
12:16all these movements
12:18are exploiting the public sentiment.
12:20There are reasons for that.
12:22For example,
12:24yesterday's young woman,
12:26Marang Baloch,
12:28has become such a big reality
12:30that the traditional
12:32Bukhtis,
12:34Mangals,
12:36the traditional political entities
12:38have gone into the background.
12:40All the popular support
12:42is demonstrable.
12:44So,
12:46they are striking a nerve.
12:48They are appealing to the masses.
12:50It is not possible
12:52that you and I
12:54or 15-20 people
12:56can say that we are fine.
12:58There are hundreds of thousands of people
13:00on one call.
13:02There is less population in Balochistan.
13:04Do we have to hold big rallies there?
13:06I am saying that
13:08power alone will not solve the problem.
13:10What is going on in the dialogue?
13:12It is very easy to say that
13:14if there were so many irrelevant people,
13:16then our law and order
13:18would not have existed for 75 years.
13:22Mr. Malik,
13:24I will try to answer
13:26all your questions.
13:28First of all,
13:30I agree with you
13:32that this sense of underdevelopment
13:34or deprivation
13:36complements the forces
13:38that want to weaken
13:40or break Pakistan.
13:42This is not the reason.
13:44This underdevelopment
13:46is called unparalleled development
13:48in the case of Pakistan.
13:50The development in Islamabad
13:52is the same as that
13:54in the cricket ground
13:56where you and I walk together.
13:58If you go from Rawalpindi,
14:00it is the same as that of Gujar Khan.
14:02If you go from Karachi,
14:04it is the same as that of Jaikwabad.
14:06If you go from Quetta,
14:08it is the same as that of Lorelei.
14:10In 2000,
14:12when the current insurgency
14:14started with the arrest of Harvish Muri,
14:16when he was arrested
14:18in a murder case,
14:20there is a difference
14:22between the development
14:24of that time
14:26and the development
14:28of today.
14:30If we take your argument
14:32or the argument of those
14:34who think that
14:36this is due to unparalleled development,
14:38there are three types of politics
14:40in Balochistan.
14:42One is the politics of JYUI
14:44which somehow
14:46has always been there
14:48with its sizable members.
14:50Initially,
14:52the members of Baloch
14:54started coming to Pashtun belt.
14:56The second type of politics
14:58is the nationalist politics.
15:00There are two or three big
15:02parties in Pashtun belt
15:04which have developed
15:06in two parts.
15:08One is the son of Usman Lala,
15:10the other is Khan Mehmood Khan
15:12Chakzai. Similarly,
15:14there is National Party,
15:16BNP Mangal, BNP Awami.
15:18This is the nationalist power.
15:20Another big power
15:22which believes in
15:24Federalist politics
15:26has always been
15:28electable and
15:30has been winning
15:32since many decades.
15:34They try to go with
15:36the parties with which
15:38the government is formed.
15:40The Federalists have been winning
15:42since many decades.
15:44This is not an unknown fact
15:46that they created a platform.
15:48This was our school of thought
15:50to create a platform.
15:52A Jamaat in Balochistan
15:54which is a federation,
15:56the case of Balochistan
15:58is fought in a different way
16:00by the nationalists.
16:02There is no harm
16:04in being different.
16:06These were the reasons
16:08behind the creation of the father.
16:10Now I come to the public sentiment.
16:12Yes, this is very important.
16:14The public sentiment
16:16was initially
16:18with Abu Jahl.
16:20It is right
16:22that the popular narrative
16:24is not of the
16:26state of Pakistan.
16:28The disintegration
16:30of the youth
16:32from the state
16:34has increased a lot
16:36in the last 4-5 years.
16:38The reason for this is
16:40artificial intelligence
16:42which is being used
16:44in Balochistan
16:46in a very organized
16:48manner.
16:50They operate
16:52from different
16:54countries.
16:56Social media
16:58has been
17:00created
17:02with the help
17:04of artificial intelligence.
17:06It is not a word
17:08that is appropriate
17:10to be used.
17:12By using social media
17:14in this way,
17:16you have mentioned
17:18Marend Baloch.
17:20The whole of Pakistan
17:22thinks that
17:24she is a terrorist.
17:26She is a terrorist
17:28in the world.
17:30Wherever she sees
17:32the flag of Pakistan,
17:34her supporters
17:36set it on fire.
17:38Whenever she starts
17:40a procession,
17:42she reads
17:44the national anthem
17:46of the so-called
17:48independent Balochistan.
17:50In the end,
17:52there is a Balochian
17:54separatist
17:56in Balochistan.
18:02If you are
18:04such a big traitor in 2024,
18:06why do you
18:08make a 7-point agreement
18:10with her?
18:12I am still ready
18:14to sit with her.
18:16Whenever I have a back-door
18:18dialogue with her,
18:20she also registers with us.
18:22In the context of Balochistan,
18:24a separatist needs
18:26legitimate voices.
18:28Bashir Zeb, who heads
18:30the BLA, cannot come
18:32and give a speech on Jinnah Road.
18:34He cannot come to the
18:36Islamabad Express Club.
18:38For those legitimate voices,
18:40they need someone
18:42to support the violence
18:44in such a way that
18:46it does not directly support it
18:48but to shape up an environment
18:50in which it does not
18:52directly support it.
18:54There are three things
18:56that have been attacked
18:58in Balochistan against the state.
19:00It is very important
19:02to think about the state.
19:04One is violence,
19:06through violence.
19:08In that violence,
19:10you can see extremism,
19:12there is a surge.
19:14There are many reasons for that.
19:16One big reason is
19:18violence.
19:20Second is social manoeuvre.
19:22Through social manoeuvre,
19:24you can go to a place
19:26where there is less support
19:28for the Baloch separatists.
19:30For example,
19:32the last Jalsa is in Dalbadin.
19:34Why Dalbadin?
19:36The club has a constitutional right
19:38to assemble.
19:40The same constitution gives me
19:42the right to manage that assembly.
19:44It is denied,
19:46because Dalbadin is a district
19:48where there is a minority.
19:50Historically,
19:52there has never been
19:54a presence of insurgents.
19:56To go there and
19:58hold a Jalsa
20:00with a special statement
20:02against the state,
20:04that young man,
20:06who is really deprived,
20:08who has been disintegrated
20:10from the state
20:12due to our bad governance,
20:14is being used against the state.
20:16The third component is
20:20social media.
20:22It is being used
20:24through artificial intelligence.
20:26To answer your previous question,
20:28I will take just one second.
20:30You said that power has been used
20:32for 75 years.
20:34The situation has not been bad
20:36for 75 years.
20:38It is not like a sweeping statement
20:40that it has been bad for 75 years.
20:42Mr. Mir, listen to me.
20:44I have to interject.
20:46Mr. Malik,
20:48only dialogue.
20:50Mr. Malik, only dialogue.
20:52The state of Pakistan,
20:54the government of Balochistan,
20:56the government of Pakistan.
20:58We are ready for any conflict-resolved dialogue.
21:00But when they say
21:02that we will cut your country like a cake
21:04and cut it with violence,
21:06I don't understand what kind of dialogue
21:08they are talking about.
21:12Welcome back to the show.
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24:24Take your time.
24:26Take your time.
24:28Take your time.
24:30Thank you Malik Bhatt. You mentioned the Kalat Army Operation. Now Kalat, there is a background behind it.
24:38Background is that creation of Pakistan and India was through a British Parliament Act.
24:45And that act said that the princely states will either live with Pakistan or they will go with India.
24:55They had no independent status. Jam of Laspela, Nawab of Kharan, Nawab of Makran,
25:01they unconditionally allocated their princely states with Pakistan in 1947.
25:07Khan Kalat asked for time and he writes in his biography, Inside Balochistan,
25:11that it was an article of faith for me to join Pakistan. No one gives an example of that.
25:15The first insurgent was his younger brother. He writes his story in his book.
25:20For some time, for 2-3-4 months, this was happening.
25:25And Kalat, if you look at the south of Balochistan, it is a small place.
25:29To make it an operation in Balochistan, or to make a police operation in Raimiyar Khan,
25:34I would say it is an operation in Punjab.
25:36So coming to your next point, you talked about Nationalist politics and mainstream political parties.
25:41What does the constitution say?
25:43The constitution says that it is the right of Malik to do business in Gawadar,
25:47and it is the right of Sarfaraz Bugti to do business in Karachi, Peshawar and Lahore.
25:51Now if you violate the constitution, I don't think the constitution makers would have thought of this.
25:59Yes, it is true that people should come and do business.
26:02Baloch is also doing business there. Pashtun is also doing business there.
26:05On ethnic grounds, if you say specifically that the people of Karachi will not leave the Pashtuns,
26:12then the population of Pashtuns is more in Karachi than in Peshawar and KP.
26:16So look at all these things.
26:18Yes, I agree with you on one thing.
26:20I don't want to look at this as a security issue.
26:25Your development paradigm, your security paradigm, they have to move parallel.
26:30Because if you do development, it will complement the state.
26:34It will complement the state.
26:36So we have to do development.
26:38We are doing it and we are improving the governance model.
26:42We have brought meritocracy.
26:44You know, in the whole of Balochistan, I can say with confidence,
26:47that the merit has not been violated in one place.
26:52So these are the positive things.
26:54My question is in the middle.
26:56My question is in the middle.
26:58In the dialogue, the people you call nationalists, you call them the opposition,
27:04you may call someone a terrorist, whatever.
27:06It is up to you to fill those boxes.
27:09Do you think there is any legitimate partner to the dialogue?
27:13If you decide that you are ready to talk,
27:16then tell me, who can we talk to?
27:19Where can we start?
27:21I was coming to your question.
27:23Because I write your questions and then point-wise,
27:25because your question is long, so the answer will also be long.
27:27Right, right.
27:28I was coming, you intervened.
27:30I will tell you.
27:32Look, who do you want to dialogue with?
27:34If there is a political issue, like elections,
27:37like there are other political issues,
27:41then you should talk to a nationalist.
27:43You are having a Jalsa Jaloos in Marang,
27:45you are having a dialogue with Marang,
27:47you write with him that you will do this, you will do that.
27:49This is what the constitution allows us to do.
27:51Now, the matter is not in their hands.
27:54The matter is in the hands of Bashir Zaib,
27:57the matter is in the hands of Dr. Lala Nazar,
27:59the matter is in the hands of Bihar Bihar Wari Sahib,
28:02so and so on, the six, seven separate groups,
28:06the violent groups.
28:07Now, from those violent groups,
28:09who do you want to dialogue with?
28:10We are ready to dialogue with everyone.
28:12Now, whether you like it or not,
28:15the decision has to be made in the battlefield.
28:17Now, take the example of 1971.
28:19Now, it has been proven that it was an intelligence driven war
28:23against the state of Pakistan.
28:24Now, it has been proven,
28:25even though they did not believe it before.
28:27Now, tell me, when did the dialogue happen?
28:29When Pakistan surrendered,
28:32after that the dialogue started,
28:33that now what to do with the 90,000 prisoners,
28:36now what to do with the territory,
28:38now what to do with the assets.
28:39So, the decision has to be made in the battlefield.
28:41Yes, if there is a conflict,
28:43suppose that I am giving an offer to you,
28:46I have not given the offer to Balochistan,
28:48we have not given it,
28:49the President of Pakistan has given it,
28:51everyone has given it.
28:52Suppose that from these terrorist groups,
28:55or from these nationalist groups,
28:56whatever name you want to give,
28:57you can put it in the box,
28:59what you call violent, that is your choice.
29:01And if anyone wants to talk to us,
29:03we are ready.
29:04Suppose that Dr. Al-Anazar says today,
29:06I am ready for a dialogue,
29:07we will have a dialogue with them,
29:09we will make them mainstream.
29:10Or there is a second tier leadership of terrorists,
29:12who are present in the mountains,
29:13they themselves are living a luxurious life,
29:15some are in Europe, some are elsewhere.
29:16The second tier leadership,
29:18who are present in the mountains,
29:19who have been incited,
29:20who have been taken by deceit,
29:21with that we have left our doors open for dialogue,
29:25that whoever surrenders,
29:26there is a surrender policy,
29:28we adopt that policy,
29:30we ensure their future,
29:33that they come here and facilitate their children's education,
29:35health, which is our poverty,
29:37the government tries to facilitate it,
29:39the state tries to facilitate it.
29:41Then there are some people,
29:42like Mr. Khan Qalat,
29:44who are not violent,
29:45like there are a few more people,
29:47Allah will say that we have something like this,
29:51that we are offering to everyone,
29:52we are trying to talk to everyone,
29:54we are messaging,
29:55whoever will come to dialogue with us,
29:57the doors of the state of Pakistan are open.
29:59But the violence that people are doing,
30:01can they be allowed in the middle of this?
30:03But you said that the doors of the state of Pakistan are open,
30:09but I think that behind that open door,
30:11Mir Sir Faraz Bukhti is standing with a loaded gun,
30:14because you said earlier that this matter will be decided on the battlefield,
30:18so you are already convincing me that there is no point in talking.
30:22If you are not open minded,
30:25you are the chief executive of the province,
30:27and if you are already convinced that this matter will be decided on the battlefield,
30:30then this is a non-starter on negotiations,
30:33that is why it is not happening,
30:35that you have a very hardline approach.
30:37Not at all.
30:40Mr. Malik, you may not be able to correct my interpretation,
30:43or my argument may not be correct,
30:46surely my argument will be correct,
30:48I am telling you that any conflict is resolved,
30:51I am saying this theoretical thing in the world,
30:54that all the insurgencies in the world,
30:56all the separatist movements,
30:5790% of them are resolved on the battlefield.
31:01That is why I am saying this,
31:03who is interested in fighting?
31:05What can the government offer?
31:07Tell me one thing,
31:10Mir Sir, tell me one thing,
31:12on one hand there is a demand that we need freedom,
31:15the secessionist groups say that we will free Balochistan,
31:18that is one extreme,
31:20on the other hand you say that we will crush the slogan that you will raise,
31:24that is correct,
31:26that will be an extreme reaction.
31:28If I ask you,
31:30what can you offer in a dialogue,
31:32because as Mr. General said,
31:34that the weapons will be thrown,
31:36then he read the verse,
31:38then we can talk to them,
31:40but to reach that step,
31:42something will be seen,
31:44tell me what is on offer right now,
31:46I genuinely want to understand,
31:48what is the offer,
31:50it cannot be that you throw the weapons and then we will talk.
31:53No, no, look,
31:55because one is the core group,
31:57those who are taking money from India,
31:59those who are taking money from other Gulf states,
32:01you will have to kill them,
32:03that is a small percentage,
32:05the large percentage is mislead.
32:09Look, look,
32:11there are two things,
32:13one is those who are violent,
32:15second is those who are our students,
32:17who are our teachers,
32:19who are our intellectuals,
32:21their integration towards
32:23the state of Pakistan is very important,
32:25that has been done through dialogue,
32:27now we are doing that dialogue,
32:29I am going to the universities,
32:31I am meeting the students,
32:33students come to meet me,
32:35youth come,
32:37we are promoting meritocracy,
32:39so that that group,
32:41which has gone into the popular narrative,
32:43should be reintegrated with the state.
32:45That dialogue is our daily dialogue,
32:47it is not that a person is standing there,
32:49what is there to offer?
32:51Look, when our nationalist politics
32:53started in the 70s or before that,
32:55they were asking about the Provincial Autonomy,
32:57now the demands of the Provincial Autonomy
32:59after the 18th amendment,
33:01if you read the old newspapers,
33:03see the old statements,
33:05the Provinces got that much more
33:07after the 18th amendment.
33:09Yes, dialogue can be done,
33:11how to do the next election reforms,
33:13dialogue can be done,
33:15that there should be fair and free elections,
33:17there should be fair and free elections,
33:19for example, I will give you an example,
33:21there was a candidate in the South,
33:23he was under so many threats
33:25to give his manifesto
33:27to his campaign,
33:29he was under so many threats
33:31that he could not go,
33:33he was under the threat
33:35that the separatists will kill him,
33:37so was it fair and free
33:39that when we could not give him
33:41this opportunity,
33:43the state or the government
33:45should pay more attention
33:47to the youth,
33:49and the youth need to engage
33:51with dialogue,
33:53and meritocracy, meritocracy, meritocracy.
33:55and meritocracy, meritocracy, meritocracy.
33:57and meritocracy, meritocracy, meritocracy.
33:59It is time for a commercial break,
34:01we have sensitive questions.
34:09Welcome to the show,
34:11you come to Islamabad,
34:13what you are saying is very hard,
34:15a small country like Balochistan
34:17is backward,
34:19there are many problems,
34:21and the exploits come from that,
34:23because wherever there is unemployment,
34:25backwardness,
34:27it will be a culling field
34:29for terrorist organisations,
34:31there is no science in this.
34:35The population of Balochistan
34:37is small compared to rest of Pakistan,
34:39why are you not
34:41you are not able to do the development, you are not able to sell Biani to the youth.
34:45Otherwise, if these terrorist groups are so irrelevant that they have made the whole province hostage,
34:51the CPEC has been damaged, your big projects are in security issues, the Chinese are hesitant
34:58that there is no security, then why is the government not able to develop such a small population?
35:06There are two components to your question.
35:09The first is backwardness. The terrorist who is fighting, let's be honest, he is not saying that he is fighting because of backwardness.
35:16I repeat, the compliment does attract the youth, but he is not saying that he is fighting on this basis.
35:25He says that I have to make a free country, I have to break this country,
35:29and I have to bring some part of Afghanistan and Iran with me.
35:32I will mix political processes there and I will do violence here.
35:36Because this nation is confused.
35:38Now I will come to your next question.
35:40I 200% agree with you that corruption has become legitimate in Balochistan.
35:46Overnight changes cannot be brought to stop it.
35:49When you bring a flag from reform, you get its dividend after 5 years, 4 years,
35:55on which you are working very hard.
35:58You know that I don't want any self-praising or credit.
36:02For the first time in the history of Balochistan, our PSTP,
36:06we have around 200 billion rupees to develop 43% of Pakistan.
36:14Now we are such people that we are not able to spend even that.
36:18More than 40-50% of it has not been spent till date.
36:22But today when you and I are talking, we have spent more than 60%
36:27and I am sure and I am confident on my team,
36:30that we will reach 90% within June.
36:35So that 200 billion rupees should be spent properly.
36:38And you are right that corruption is a reason for this underdevelopment.
36:45And it is not so easy to reduce and curb it.
36:50Of course, there are coalition governments and political governments.
36:54There are also our own compulsions.
36:56But there is a serious effort going on.
36:58I have two questions for you.
37:00I am not making any claims.
37:02I think I know the answer.
37:04It is not fair to ask you because an expected answer will come.
37:08If I ask you, in the last four elections,
37:12is Balochistan representing genuine public leadership every time?
37:16The last four were genuine elections.
37:18And you can say that people are representing the genuine will of the people.
37:23Keep your hand on your heart.
37:25I am telling you with my hand on my heart.
37:28If you tell me 100%, I will not say that some candidates are managing the elections.
37:36Some are getting support from somewhere.
37:38But 90% of the people in the assemblies,
37:42have been electable for the last two and a half years.
37:47But these electables have been made by Pindi and Islamabad.
37:56They do not necessarily reflect the people.
37:59They are people who like power corridors.
38:03This is what was being said in the 2013 elections.
38:09If a particular party could make a fool out of Khuzdar, he would have won.
38:14Similarly, such allegations are made against other political parties.
38:18If you look at the overall politics of Balochistan from 1971 to today,
38:23if you study it thoroughly,
38:25you will find that there are 7, 8, 9 Baloch nationalists,
38:307, 8 Pashtun nationalists, 7, 8 Jejuais, and the rest are electables.
38:35And this has been the case historically.
38:37I do not want to sit on the Mainstream TV channel and say that
38:41some management is being done by the electables.
38:46Some people appoint their own staff.
38:50Overall, I think that 99% of the people are electables.
38:55We are down to the last 2-3 minutes.
38:58We are down to the last 2-3 minutes.
39:01We are down to the last 2-3 minutes.
39:03Two quick questions.
39:04First of all, you said that we always have behind-the-scenes conversations.
39:11To what extent do you think that the behind-the-scenes dialogue
39:17that is going on today is a success?
39:22To what extent do you think that the behind-the-scenes dialogue
39:27that is going on today is a success?
39:30Recently, Sarfaraz Bangulzai, who was a big member of a faction, came.
39:36Similarly, I am hoping that a few more big personalities will come
39:40so that we can have a dialogue with them.
39:42Overall, to say that the separatist movement will be completely dismantled
39:48I do not see that happening through dialogue.
39:51Honestly, if it happens, then it is not a good thing.
39:54Actually, what happens is that the non-goals are visible to everyone.
39:58The non-goals that stop are not visible to anyone.
40:01The one goal that happens is visible to everyone.
40:03Can we expect large-scale military operations if this whole process fails?
40:10Not at all.
40:12You see, states use their forces based on their threat capacity.
40:19In the case of Balochistan, I think paramilitary forces are enough,
40:22not military operations.
40:24Smart, kinetic IBOs, intelligence-based operations,
40:27because security forces are operating in groups.
40:29If you do not know who is your friend and who is your enemy,
40:32then you need an intelligence.
40:34And even if there is an intelligence-driven war,
40:36then it is better to rally.
40:38Last quick question.
40:40I am running out of time.
40:42But the most sensitive thing is
40:44the issue of disappearance.
40:47Why don't you solve this issue of disappearance,
40:50which everyone has made a rallying cry for?
40:52Why is this such a complicated issue?
40:54Sir, we need a complete program on this.
40:57I cannot answer this in one minute.
40:59First of all, this subject is very dicey.
41:01Then self-disappearances,
41:03then enforced disappearances.
41:05It is a complete subject.
41:07So I request you, whenever you come to Quetta,
41:09or I come to Islamabad,
41:11let's have a series of programs on Balochistan.
41:13It's done, sir.
41:15Let's end on this topic.
41:17Next week or the day after,
41:19Inshallah, I will come to Balochistan.
41:21And let's have a program only on disappearances.
41:23But you have to make sure that I don't disappear.
41:26Thank you very much, Mr. Amir.
41:28Thank you, sir, very much.
41:30Viewers, you heard the Chief Minister of Balochistan.
41:32I won't make any comment.
41:34You see for yourself.
41:36This is your decision.
41:38Whether the arguments were convincing or not.
41:40I leave it to you.
41:42Allah Hafiz.